FEMALE SUBMISSION?!?!? - Transcript

Video: https://dai.ly/kdGnJqlet2rWeJAyy4K

Chapters

0:00 - Saturday Morning Greetings
2:58 - The Debate on Female Submission
6:39 - Submission in Daily Life and Relationships
14:01 - The Concept of Submission in Society
24:58 - The Complexities of Submission
26:09 - Misconceptions and Mutual Submission
34:52 - Authority and Respect in Relationships
36:21 - Unveiling Invisible Submission Requirements
41:53 - The Role of Submission in Authority
46:22 - The Paradox of Enslavement by Choices
49:03 - Dental Battles and Tough Choices
57:40 - Joy in Submission and Rigorous Analysis
1:02:25 - Vanity, Submission, and Choosing Suffering
1:10:02 - Navigating Life and Avoiding Regrets

Long Summary

Stefan opens the podcast by engaging listeners and encouraging them to share their thoughts. A caller initiates a discussion on the anonymity surrounding the creation of Bitcoin, prompting a reflection on how this impacts the integrity of the currency. The conversation then shifts to the topic of female submission, sparked by a conversation about traditional gender roles on a dating app. Stefan delves into the concept of submission in interpersonal relationships and societal structures, highlighting its role in various aspects of life. He challenges listeners to examine their views on submission and its significance in their own lives.

The caller further explores the notion of submission in personal relationships and career choices, discussing the impact of submitting to biological realities, societal expectations, and gender dynamics. They delve into the complexities of submission in different contexts, questioning its meaning and implications. The conversation delves into power dynamics and mutual respect in professional environments and personal relationships, pondering the role of submission in marriage and family dynamics. The conversation delves into the intricate nature of submission and its influence on individuals' lives.

Stefan delves deeper into the complexities of submission in relationships, emphasizing the importance of understanding power dynamics and respect. He discusses why submission is often viewed negatively, particularly in discussions involving women and submission. Stefan examines submission as a form of respect that can benefit relationships mutually. The conversation touches on communication, the significance of clear expectations, and the dynamics of authority and respect within relationships. Stefan stresses the need for open dialogue and mutual comprehension to navigate these intricate dynamics effectively.

Reflecting on personal experiences, it is shared that in marriage, expertise, input, and decision-making are collaborative rather than a one-sided submission. Drawing parallels to accepting professional advice in various fields, the conversation emphasizes that submitting to expertise is not synonymous with losing one's identity. Respect for expertise and making informed decisions are highlighted, emphasizing that submission is not about relinquishing control but recognizing the expertise of others. The significance of respecting expertise and informed decision-making across different scenarios is underscored. The discussion prompts a reflection on societal perceptions of submission and its connection to self-worth, exploring the nuances of authority, respect, and decision-making in personal and professional contexts.

Stefan expresses his satisfaction in embracing the principles of philosophy, prioritizing his family's needs, and subjecting his arguments to reason and evidence. The structure of peaceful parenting, based on theory, practice, and data, is highlighted. Stefan explores resistance to submission, its connection to women's happiness, and the influence of ideology. The conversation navigates societal expectations, submission, ideology, and personal responsibility, stressing the impact of individual choices on life outcomes. The importance of self-interest in submission and the necessity for improved educational approaches are emphasized. The episode concludes with an appreciation for engaging dialogue and encourages further exploration of the podcast's content.

Transcript

[0:00] Saturday Morning Greetings

[0:00] All right, all right. Excellent, excellent. Hi, everybody. Welcome to your Saturday. Got a little bit of time today. And when I have a little bit of time today, the first people I think of are you glorious folks. So yeah, I've got a couple of mindless things to do around the house. And I'm all ears. Questions, comments, issues, challenge, you know the drill. What's on your mind? Going once, going twice.

[0:21] So I wanted to ask if, like, does it matter that we don't know who created Bitcoin? Like, does that add value to it as a currency?

[0:34] Interesting question. Interesting question. Tell me, have you read cases for or against?

[0:43] Yeah, I'm more familiar with the for side of it in that because we don't know who created it, there's no there's nobody you can go after to sort of manipulate or coerce to give you any more edge than you would have if you could afford like all the compute power to actually take over the blockchain if that makes sense uh.

[1:03] Sort of yeah i mean i've i've heard people say uh the bitcoin uh creation ip address is the nsa and you know i mean who knows right it seems unlikely, but I don't think it matters because the whole point of the Bitcoin protocol is to be immune from individual manipulation.

[1:24] Because it's democratic, right? People have to vote on the forks and so on. So even if they knew, I mean, you know, it's a pre-Julian Assange and a post-Julian Assange world, right? So if people had a, you know, once they saw what happened with Julian Assange, I think a lot of people were like, yeah, I think Anonymous might be all right. I think that could be the way to go. so I don't think it hugely matters you know it's the sort of thing like we don't know the first guy to invent bronze that doesn't mean bronze is either, valuable or useless depending on that it's the tool itself rather than the originator I mean obviously it would be quite fascinating to know that but, we don't and we may never or maybe people do and they don't say anything about it, I guess the original guy knows but I don't imagine the original guy is still around around. I can't imagine that would be the case. I mean, he's sitting on one of the fastest and largest wealth accumulations in human history and doesn't seem to have touched it at all unless he's got secret wallets everywhere. So I don't imagine he's still around. He could have been Seth Rich. He could have been any number of things. But I think it's such a lifeboat that even the most corrupt people in the world are looking at it as a lifeboat of security away from the disaster of fiat currency. So even though they may curse him in the short run, I think that they'll bless him in the long run if that makes any sense. What do you guys think?

[2:51] Hey, listen, if we got a quiet group today, that's fine. I mean, I got some stuff to ramble on about, but if you want to chat, I'm all ears.

[2:58] The Debate on Female Submission

[2:59] All right. Okay, so tell me what you guys think of the concept or idea or question of female submission. I had a rousing debate offline the other day with people about female submission. There was a comment on, it was some dating app where the woman said, the guy said, I don't think it's a good match. And she said, just out of curiosity, why? And he went through a bunch of things and he said, you know, also you wouldn't be submissive because of X, Y, and Z. And it's a really wild word. because he said, hey, I want a woman who's going to be a stay-at-home mom and raise my kids, and I also want her to be submissive. And it was really quite an exciting debate. You can almost hear the bombs going off in people's brains about the concept of female submission. And have you guys ever had conversations like that or rolled over those ideas, or does it just feel like a kind of slow-roll estrogen suicide?

[4:05] I've seen them, but I am curious how that was defined.

[4:09] Well, it wasn't defined. That was the exciting thing.

[4:13] Oh.

[4:14] And I would argue the interesting thing. I think that was the interesting thing. So I'll tell you sort of my case for what was going on, and you guys can tell me sort of what you think. So when it came to submission as a whole, you know, women kind of rail and boil against this. You know, to be submissive is to not exist, to not have opinions. Oh, do I have to ask you if I want to go to the bathroom? You know, that kind of stuff. so uh submission is uh self-erasure and so on right now my argument was that i mean i'm not sure i would agree with the way the guy put it but he is submitting and he is submitting because.

[5:05] He's going to work in providing the income so if submission is bad right a submission i mean he's And he's saying, look, I'm not submitting to you. I'm submitting to that which is best for the family. So it's best for the family in a traditional structure. Let's say that the man goes out to work and the woman stays home and raises the kids, right? So that's what's best from a sort of traditional. It's best for the kids, right? So he's saying, look, I am going to have to go and submit to a boss. See, it's funny because as men, don't we submit all the time? I mean, it's a constant state of submission. I mean you got to submit to your boss you have to submit to your customers you have to submit to sort of business requirements uh and and in order to provide an income for your family you have to have a certain element of submission i mean i submit to some degree of course to the wishes and preferences of the listeners and i of course have to submit to that which is best for the people I work for and that which is best for philosophy. I have to submit my arguments to reason and evidence. I have to subjugate myself, right, to a wide variety of people, standards, requirements, preferences, and methodologies, some of which I don't even agree with.

[6:30] But I have to submit for, you know, a variety of reasons that we can sort of get into. If you want, it doesn't hugely matter, but I think we all have that.

[6:39] Submission in Daily Life and Relationships

[6:40] I mean, if this guy, the guy who wants to stay-at-home wife, well, he's going to submit because he's, you know, going to get up at 7 o'clock in the morning and get ready for work and go to work when he doesn't feel like it, and he's going to be doing all of these things for his family.

[6:59] So his submission to that which is best for the family is baked into him offering the woman to pay all the bills. How do you pay the bills? Well, you've got to submit. I mean, I've done shows when I haven't felt like it. I've done shows with headaches. I've done shows under sort of bomb and death threats and speeches and so on, you know, when it wasn't a super amount of fun. And yet I still have to be charming and engaging and interesting thing and hopefully provide a modicum of wisdom and charisma and so on. So there are times where you just have to, you know, when I went to Australia and New Zealand, I mean, man, I was tired, you know, like it's a big time change and it was really threw my clock off and all of that. But, you know, I had to submit. And of course, you know, in the contracts with the bookers, it's like, yeah, you got to give these speeches. You got to submit. Now, again, I'm not like enslaved, I chose to do it, so I get all of that, but there's a submission to requirements without an individual preference in the moment. And that seems quite important. So by offering to pay all the family's bills, the man is saying, I'm submitting. Now, is he submitting to the woman? Well, to some degree. Is he submitting to the children? Yeah. But for men.

[8:25] Submission you know nature to be commanded must be obeyed and so on submission is reproductive strength it is familial strength if you're not willing to submit to a boss to economic requirements to the need to provide value in the remnants of the free market if you're not willing to submit you can't have a family because you can't make an income so for men i think submission is kind of baked into masculinity. And there is an element of submission if you take on all the bills. And so if the woman says, well, submission is really bad, submission is self-erasure, then the man can say, well, so then me submitting to my boss to pay the bills must be really bad and must be self-erasure. And if it's terrible and bad and wrong to submit, then I can't pay the bills. You can't be a stay-at-home mom. we can't raise children because apparently submission is really bad and then the other odd thing is of course that the woman says submission is really bad but if she has a job she submits to her boss because you know you have a certain amount of leverage with your boss but not as much as your boss has with you generally right so if submission is really bad then she shouldn't submit to her boss she can't have a job.

[9:48] And so there's this funny kind of prickliness that comes with regards to women about submission. And I mean, I'm curious what you guys think. What's your relationship to submission? I mean, I feel pretty much sometimes yanked around like the tail of a kite by submission. Like I have to submit to reason and evidence and importance and do things that are sometimes difficult because that's the deal, that's the gig.

[10:14] So I feel like submission is a great part of my life. Life I don't resent it in fact I find it quite liberating because it takes the opposite of submission sometimes it's kind of vanity but women and submission it's like almost like a it seems to me almost like a programmed or reactive response like it's just bad it's like okay well if it's just bad then you shouldn't have a job because a job means you have to submit so we all got to serve someone we ought to submit someone or something we got to submit to someone or something.

[10:42] Isn't it the most glorious thing to submit to people who love you and what's best for them and your kids your wife your family as opposed to just some anonymous boss who'll replace you with ai in a moment's notice if you look at him funny so i just had this very interesting debate because of course submission is a big big topic and you know the sort of question of the argumentative woman and it can happen for men as well but i think we're slightly better trained in submission because and i said like a man's nature with regards to women is to to be submissive like that's what we do as men we submit right so in general and maybe it's changed now maybe it has but you know you you ask the the woman out and you know pay for the first couple of dates at least and you go pick her up and and so on right and so there's a men just submit to women because that's how our genes survive because women are the gatekeepers of reproduction reduction so this is where sort of chivalry and deference and you know uh treating women like a princess like all this kind of stuff comes from like a man's default position is is deference right to to women and their preferences needs and interests to woo right men who's women men right, poetry for women men build buildings to protect women and so on i mean 80 of the economy revolves around what women want, not what men care about, and.

[12:09] So the default position for the man is submission and deference. And in being the wage earner, he is deferring to the needs of his family, to his boss, to the customers, to whatever sort of needed economic necessity. He is deferring to all of those. He's submitting to all of those. And so if he says to a woman, I want you to be submissive, again, I know the word has been kind of poisoned, like sort of anarchy or whatever, right? Right. But I find it very interesting. So to what then does the woman submit? And for a woman to submit, I think it's been kind of programmed that this is enslavement and self-erasure and it's terrible and you lose your identity and you're just obedient like a puppy or something like that. Right. And it's like, OK, well, then the man's income comes from his submission to economic necessity and a boss and customers and so on. Like you can never escape this right you can never i mean maybe i guess if you inherit a zillion dollars or something you can escape it to some degree but you know it's really for almost all men it's kind of impossible to escape economic necessity so, we are so we have to submit to that reality right.

[13:23] I mean you submit your work right or in university don't you have to submit to the course requirements and what the professor wants of course you can choose these things but they can also change. It's not like everything's on the up and up with the syllabus and all of that. And so, yeah, it just seems to me submission is kind of part of life. And the other thing, too, is that if women say, well, you know, I'm strong, fierce, independent, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

[13:50] And they don't want to submit and all of that, well, I guess that's fine in a way, but all that means is that cultures where the women are more submissive, you know, outbreed you.

[14:01] The Concept of Submission in Society

[14:02] And of course in a democracy that means that you're not going to stay submissive anyway, right all of this like strong independent stuff is like okay well when cultures from, other places come into your country and have a birth rate significantly higher than yours it may mean in particular in a democracy well that's you know it doesn't really matter what you say it doesn't matter what you i don't want this i do want that it's like okay but you want the capacity for your children to live as you live well you ain't going to have that so anyway that's sort of i'm not sure if this is an interesting topic if there's other things that people want to talk about but i was i got into a very spirited debate because i feel that i am quite submissive to the sort of demands of the world and philosophy and virtue and all of that And so for me, if somebody says you have to submit, I'd be like, well, yeah, that's kind of the male deal, isn't it? So what do you guys think with regards to this stuff?

[15:03] Yeah i i was thinking um you know in relationship to my weight loss recently i mean either way i was submitting i was either submitting to like historical madness or i was going to submit to reality and the goals that i wanted to achieve in my life right yeah you have to submit to.

[15:20] Biology and physics just to lose the weight right.

[15:22] Yeah yeah and either way i'm submitting i just what but what am I submitting to? Right. You know, or, or you, you know what I mean? Like, uh, like I'm either going to, I'm either going to try to try to ignore reality, which is going to catch up with me in a bad way, you know, ultimately in the end, or I can say, okay, well, you know, accept that. And also what are my goals? What am I, other sorts of things. Um, and on the point of, um, I've seen, I get this weird feeling and maybe it's just sort of like, I'm sort of drawing the, uh, sort of, sort of, like i'm sort of getting this spider sense of everybody else's sort of agitation around particularly the women around the submission thing but i've seen like sort of more or less trad women on online talking about being submissive and i don't know exactly what it is it always seems strange but i kind of get i totally get where you're coming from and what they talk about they're not talking about like rolling over or not anything else they're talking about being pleasant they're talking about being good wives you know being you know good homemakers and that kind of stuff they're not talking about like not having opinions although you know maybe some go that far but i think that's just a meme at that point um well.

[16:33] No but it's not a question of having opinions or not to me like.

[16:36] Yeah when.

[16:37] When i work you know when i worked for people i mean i still work for people just a bit more diffuse with an audience rather than a particular boss i was allowed to have opinions at work but eventually i just.

[16:48] Had to.

[16:48] Submit to the boss like Like I was allowed to make my case. I think we should do X, Y, or Z. But eventually, you know, whether it was the CEO, when I was in software, or the board, or whatever it is, right? Like if I say I really want to change Free Domain Radio to be a model train appreciation club.

[17:06] You know, and let's say people were like, no, I mean, you can do what you want, but I'm not donating for a model railroad club, right?

[17:16] Well, what would I do? I mean, I'd either have to give up my income or I'd have to submit to the preferences of the listeners. Now, there are times when, you know, I will, I mean, there are certainly people who want me to go on Twitter, who want me to do politics and so on. So it's not like I have no opinion. But if I'm not doing those things, I just need to accept the lower income or the less engagement, or I need to find some other way to engage listeners. But I don't know. It's funny. I don't think that men in particular prickle at submission. Like when I was a kid, you know, I'm pretty sporty. And when I was in England, I would usually get chosen pretty quickly for games. Like, you know, where you split up the captains of the team, so to speak, and you just choose who's going to be on your team. I'd usually be chosen pretty quickly. When I came to Canada, where I wasn't familiar with a lot of the sports, for a while, I wasn't chosen. Because it was like, yeah, fruity English guy doesn't know exactly what's going on with baseball or I still don't really understand football too well, sad to say, but I played baseball. Now, of course, once I got good at baseball, then I was chosen because I'm a pretty good hitter and all that. So I had to sort of accept my time in, so to speak, the doghouse.

[18:40] And submit to the requirements of having to be good at the sport in order to be chosen. And I didn't, I wasn't mad about that. That's like, yeah, that makes sense. I mean, of course, right? I would do the same, right? And if I wanted to win the game, I wouldn't choose the guy right off the boat who didn't know how the game was played particularly well, right? So there just seems to be, and if submission is bad.

[19:05] Then the woman should not submit to her boss, which means she can't keep her job, right? And it's because it all just seems about the man she's supposed to be in love with. That's all the submission seems to focus on. Right? So they don't say, well, you can't ever submit to your boss, or you're a professor, because if you don't submit to your boss or your professor, you don't get a job or your degree. So it's fine to do that, right?

[19:32] But just when it comes to the man who's the father of your children, and it's like the one place where submission would be the most arguable for is the one place where women, it seems to me, have been programmed to resist because they submit to the law, right? They submit to taxes. They submit to the government. They submit to the professors, the teachers. They submit to their bosses. And that's all considered empowering, right? Go and submit to your boss. that's empowering. You're a strong, independent woman with her own career. Oh, you want to become a lawyer? Well, you have to submit to the requirements of becoming a lawyer. You can't just go and become a lawyer. No matter how good you are at debating or how well you know the law, you've got to jump through all. You want to become a doctor? My gosh, you've got to go and submit to all of the requirements of licensing, and that's all considered like the best thing in the known universe, right? So I find it a little confusing, which is why is submission so fantastic to everyone except the father of your children i mean is it just an anti-family thing is it just a sow the seeds of resentment and cause men and women to have problems with each other like it's just kind of, i just find it kind of weird what do you guys think.

[20:53] Yeah i think like an hour yeah go ahead so i had like an hour long discussion sort of about all these topics with a woman not even a week ago and um i got the exact same vibe to where it's like yeah okay submission's fine in the workplace and in school and i juxtapose that with submission to your husband to her and she she basically said well you've got more leverage over your husband um so that i was kind of like well at least that's that's you know that's at least honest.

[21:23] Oh so she.

[21:24] Doesn't have to submit because she's.

[21:25] Got a family courts right.

[21:28] Basically, yeah. Or she was like, well, romance should be more egalitarian. This particular woman is extremely left-wing, but still pretty open, so it's interesting to have these kind of discussions with her because it all kind of came up with the subject of having close guy friends in the context of a romantic relationship.

[21:51] So having close what friends?

[21:53] Having close male friends, like male best friends.

[21:56] Oh, yeah.

[21:59] Yeah. And so I brought that up to her and she's like, well, to your point, it's almost like the degree to which they're programmed to have this sort of don't submit to anything or a submission to everything, but your husband is fine. It's like pulling teeth to get them to take anything off the negotiation table. Because I was like, well, if you're a man and you get married, you can't go take all these different economic risks. And that's a huge thing that a man gives up when he submits. So I just said to her, I said, I don't see why it's such a big deal to not go out and get drunk with your girlfriends or have male, quote unquote, best friends that you hang around. And she just couldn't. She's like, yeah, but then I have to give something up. And I'm like, well, kind of both parties do.

[22:42] Right right right and of course you know nature to be commanded must be obeyed it's not like we gave up the power of mysticism in order to accept science like through accepting science and engineering and actual facts of reality we gained massive power over reality so i don't think that's you know it's not oh my gosh we've given up the fantasy that you know chicken entrails determine the future it's like okay but but they don't and the it's funny because and i think the power Power dynamic is interesting as well. So how much would I have to submit to my boss, if I decided to quit my job, my boss had to give me his house? Right? Because if the woman decides to quit the marriage, I mean, you know, again, I know there's exceptions and all of that, but in general, if the woman decides to quit the marriage, the man has to give her half his money. So, half his assets, right? So, what's it going to be like in a performance review with me and my boss if I decide to quit, my boss can't hire a replacement for a couple of years, and he has to give me half his assets? You know, isn't that going to give me kind of disproportionate leverage in any kind of negotiation with my boss?

[24:09] And so the submission that the man has with his boss is almost infinitely greater than the submission that the woman would have to her husband. And again, the man is submitting to the needs of the woman and the family by going to work and making the money. And so, like, if the man says, I want us both to contribute equally to the income of the family, Okay, well then, you know, they're both submitting equally, right? But if the woman says, I want you to pay my bills and I won't submit to you, but you have to, I mean, implicit in paying the bills is submitting to the woman and submitting to the, that's what's best for the family, right? That's kind of baked in to the whole thing.

[24:58] The Complexities of Submission

[24:58] So then the man has to submit to his boss, and customers and all of the restraints at work he has to submit to all of that, and he has to submit to his wife now what does the woman have to submit to? I don't know I mean you could say the needs of the children and so on although that doesn't seem to be happening that much anymore with daycare and all this kind of crap, right? But so the man has to submit to his boss and the wife and the children, economic necessity and so on. And what does the woman have to submit to? It's a little hard to answer.

[25:37] Literally only that which she wants to.

[25:41] Well, I mean, she's got a baby at home, right? And let's say that she's breastfeeding. I mean, to be fair, right? She has to get up and breastfeed the baby, right? So she's submitting to that. And that's, I mean, that's a real thing. That's a big job that goes on for a year, year and a half and so on, although less overnight as time passes. But there is some submission to that for sure.

[26:09] Misconceptions and Mutual Submission

[26:10] But the man has to submit to a whole bunch. And for things to be equal, should the woman have to submit as well? Now, submission, again, doesn't mean... I think for women, they translate submission as I don't have a voice, I can't say anything, I have no effect, I don't exist. But I think that projection, honestly, because again, you know, you're at work and, you know, I work with some very fine folks. We had a nice long chat yesterday about the business and I said, you know, what can I do differently or what can I do better that's going to make you guys happier and more satisfied? And, you know, that's very important to me. So there's a mutual submission. I'm asking you guys what you want to talk about. Like, I wanted to talk about this topic and I'm like, well, what do you guys want to talk about? And if you'd wanted to talk about another topic, I would have submitted to that, right? Because, I mean, I care about you guys. I want us all to do well in philosophy. I thank you for your support, all that kind of good stuff. So there's a lot of submission in the male world.

[27:09] And we have to sometimes submit to bigger men and their physical threats or whatever it is, if that could be happening. And, yeah, of course, we have to submit to the draft in general if that sort of comes our way. And there's just a lot of submission in the male world. and if submission is bad, if submission means you don't have an identity, you don't have a soul and you cease to exist, then the man going to work is a double submission because he's submitting to the family and he's submitting to his boss. So if submission is bad and means you don't exist, then the woman should never ask the man to pay for anything. It should be exactly 50-50 no matter what, But then she can only get the money to pay for things because she's submitting to her boss. So submission becomes good again. Like it's just, it's a real brain teaser.

[28:06] And there's something that's just hard to sort of puzzle out about this. If submission is bad, then you can't live. Because you can't, I mean, submitting to necessity, submitting to the needs for your boss, submitting to what your customers want, and so on. That's how you live. I mean if you're a farmer you have to submit to the requirements of planting and harvesting and fertilizing and protecting from pests, predators and protecting from parasites and bugs and birds and all this kind of like you have to do a lot of that you can submit to reality in order to get anything so why do you think it is, like it immediately becomes like the handmaiden's tale or something which is all just like made up paranoid nonsense to me but what is it with women and submission why is it so So, absolutely, unquestionably heinous, without any particular thought. Like, when you ask them, well, doesn't the man submit, and don't you have to submit to work, and don't you have to submit to your professors and your teachers and so on, they're like, well, yeah, but that's good. It's like, oh, okay, so submission is good, and the man has to submit to his boss to get the income for you to stay home with your kids, which you want to do, so that submission is good. So, how can submission be both really good and the worst thing in the world? How is, like, if I'm empowered because I have a job as a lawyer, but all the people you had to submit to to get that job as a lawyer, teachers, professors, the governing, the licensing board, and your boss, and like, so there's tons of submission, right?

[29:36] So, if being a lawyer is really empowering, but the only way you could become a lawyer is by submitting like crazy, then how can submission be bad? It's like schrodinger's submission or something you know it's massively empowering and a complete self-erasure at the same time and i just find that bizarre and also if it's like well you wouldn't respect me if i just submitted to you on everything well of course that's not what submission means you still get a voice in a negotiation but if you say well submission is humiliating and it engenders disrespect it's like okay but i have to i have to submit to my boss in order to get an income, does that mean that you despise me, think I don't exist and have no respect for me because I do what my boss wants me to do in order to make an income? Or, if a woman marries a lawyer...

[30:28] He had to submit to a whole bunch of things. He still has a governing body. He has all these regulations that cover his profession. He still has to get recertified, or he has to take continual education, and if he doesn't, then he has to follow all these rules that don't have anything to do in particular with law, regulations, and so on, his governing body. So if she's happy that he's a lawyer, and he's only a lawyer because he submits to X, Y, and Z, then how can submission be bad? Anyway, maybe there's a simpler way to understand it, it like it's just programming or something they just want to program resentment or whatever but doesn't it seem does it seem odd to you guys or am i overthinking it.

[31:06] It has to do with what is a woman's, uh who's gonna go first oh if you you can go first because you've had your hand up for a while thank you I think that response that you get like no it's bad, it's a knee jerk reaction it's like someone throws a ball at your face and you just flinch away so it's programmed, yeah the initial response is programmed but I also think there's an underlying, message to it that says that I won't submit to a man unless he deserves it Or unless he's worthy enough. And nowadays, when a five basically thinks she can get an alpha 10, they never find a man that is worthy of that form of submission.

[32:09] Now, do women say, I will submit to a worthy man? I don't hear that very much, but again, I'm not exactly in the dating world.

[32:18] No, I have actually gotten a little bit of, let's say I had women implying that when I talked to them. But I actually had one woman who I was dating for six months. She actually told me straight up, and this was after years of being ignored by her former husband. and basically every other man rolling over for her because she was beautiful. She said straight out to me, I want a man to put me in my place.

[32:48] A man that could tame my voice?

[32:53] No, that could put me in my place.

[32:58] Right, okay, got it. Interesting. Interesting. Have you guys heard that from other women, or is that more singular?

[33:11] It sounds kind of like domination to me. I don't know.

[33:15] No, but you're back into its win-lose. Its submission is win-lose. That's the idea. If she wants a man to put her in a place, what's she saying? She's saying, I don't want a man who's afraid of me. Of course, women don't want a man who's afraid of them, right? Because a man who's afraid of them is signaling that he won't succeed in competition with other men.

[33:43] Yeah it makes sense but like putting in my place is like i'll like like it's an i feel like it's trippy that's like a negotiation right like hey i submit to you based off these principles you said to me based off these principles like putting me in my place seems like i don't know it's like, it's on the man's just like kind of just that language it just seems like it's on the man's kind of like control but i feel like it's it's more of a negotiation but no but being put in your place.

[34:07] I think, means having a realistic assessment of your value or your skills or your abilities, right? So, to me, that's what being put in your place is this accurate feedback, right? So, of course, men will constantly lie to beautiful women and flatter and praise and, you know, the whole simping thing, right? Now, that's they're basically lying to women. Because they're saying, well, you're all kinds of wonderful when they're just saying, I'm all kinds of horny, right? And so being put in my place is, I want a man who has an accurate assessment of my value and virtues.

[34:52] Authority and Respect in Relationships

[34:52] I don't want a sort of enthusiastic kindergarten teacher who says everything I do is wonderful, because that's pathetic, and it kind of is, right?

[35:04] Yeah, I think it's about assertiveness.

[35:07] I'm sorry, I can't hear you.

[35:07] Enough competence and...

[35:09] Go ahead.

[35:13] Sorry, can you hear me okay or no?

[35:15] It's a little... You might want to bring the mic a little closer.

[35:19] I'll take it.

[35:27] I don't know if you're talking now, but I can't hear you at all. Just so you know.

[35:33] I'll change my mic.

[35:36] Sorry, you're coming and going?

[35:39] I think you said you'll change his mic.

[35:40] Oh, he changes his mic. Okay, thanks.

[35:42] I have a question in the meanwhile.

[35:44] Yeah, go for it.

[35:46] The person you were speaking to who was concerned with the fact or the possibility that this woman would not submit, did he characterize... So his input in the potential relationship has submission as well.

[36:00] No, no, he didn't. But it's kind of like an IQ test. Like if I say to a woman, I'll pay all the bills. I'll go and work for us outside the home and I'll pay all the bills. Then the submission to economic necessity, it's not even implied. Like that's just kind of stated, right?

[36:21] Unveiling Invisible Submission Requirements

[36:21] So his submission is, I'm going to get up at seven o'clock in the morning, battle traffic difficult bosses and customers and economic necessity and the vagaries of the economics ups and downs i'll navigate all of that i'll go to work and get all these things done, and you can sit home play with the babies so to me their submission that's just a that's just like how is that not visible i think for a lot of women it's not maybe because they get their money from the government i don't know but for a lot of women that just doesn't seem to be visible like if if a man says i'll pay all the bills she's like well i'm not going to submit why would i it's like because i'm submitting by paying all the bills.

[36:57] Um i think that partly has to do with the way the word has been uh associated with like you said self-erasure which could lead to a miscommunication when you tell somebody when you tell a potential relationship candidate um that you want them to I think because of that potential for miscommunication, it might be worth elaborating singly.

[37:28] Well, now, so that's interesting, right? And I'm sorry to steal your thunder. I've sort of made that exact point where when I sort of explain all of this, the women are like, oh, yeah, okay, that makes sense, I guess. But, you know, the moment I hear the word submission, I'm out, right? I'm not going to date that guy. And I'm like, why wouldn't you just ask? What do you mean by that? Right like why wouldn't you say oh submission that's interesting i'm not sure what you mean by that i mean i get that i get that you'll be submitting because you'll be paying all the bills but i'm not sure what you mean by submission from me, So it's an empathy question. Is the woman just going to get offended and storm off, or is she going to ask you what you mean? Because, you know, guess what, guys? In all relationships, the potential for misunderstanding is very high. And what is your response to something that someone else says that upsets you? Are you like, huh, it's interesting, I wasn't expecting that. Can you tell me more? Or you're just like, well, I'm out. This is a terrible thing that you're saying, right? And then you can't have a relationship with the volatile, right? Because they just take offense and get upset, set and then you don't ever get hurt right so to me it's like the reason that you would use that word is if the woman says uh that word kind of doesn't sit right with me i get that you'll be, submitting because you'll be paying all the bills but that word doesn't sit quite right with me can you tell me more about what you mean as opposed to oh that's so offensive how dare you demand that i submit like a slave and she storms off or whatever it's like well that's a good way of weeding people out isn't it.

[38:58] Yes yes you're entirely right on that um i find myself regularly asking well what do you mean by that i think more people need to practice that i.

[39:12] Think so, and did she and then the question is so what's the man getting in return for uh working 50 60 hours a week, you know, if you sort of include the commute and all of that, right? So he's providing that, right? So what's the woman providing, right? That's sort of the big question. I say, oh, well, he's going to raise the kids and all that, right? It's like, okay, but the man's responsibilities go on for 40, 50 years, right? That's not raising the kids, right? Raising the kids doesn't go on that long. Like the really difficult part of raising the kids, if you can even call it difficult, The really difficult part of raising the kids Maybe the first couple of years Say three kids, you know Six to nine years.

[40:02] But the man's responsibility to pay for the family if his wife doesn't have a job, you know, 20 to 70 or whatever you want to call it, you know, 40 or 50 years, right? So what is the man getting for that? And because this is important, right? This is the big question. It's the reason why millennials aren't getting married is the man can't answer that question. I could lose my house. I could lose my kids. I could get falsely accused of terrible things. I got to work for 50 years or 40 years. what do I get? Now, I think what the man wants to get to some degree is authority.

[40:41] Which is I don't want to be second-guessed on the big decisions that I make about the areas that I'm good at. And, of course, the woman has every right to ask for that as well, and she should, and that's a great thing to offer up, right? If the woman says we need X, Y, and Z, and it's her area of expertise, then, yeah, that's what happens, right? So it's not enslavement. Because the enslavement problem means that then he's enslaved at his work and she won't respect him. So if a woman says ahead of time, I'll take your money, but I'll consider you a slave and I won't respect you, that's a pretty bad deal, right? So if she says all submission is enslavement, then she's saying that I will consider you a powerless slave if you pay the bills. Well, that's not what a man wants to come home to. Hello, powerless slave. Thank you for paying the bills, like the men don't want to come home for that, right? They don't want to work for that. So there has to be something that the man's really getting.

[41:38] And I think this submission thing is, well, I'm going to expect respect and I'm going to expect to be seated authority in the areas of my expertise.

[41:53] The Role of Submission in Authority

[41:53] And that doesn't mean that the woman can't have a voice, of course right of course I mean you have a voice at work right if your boss tells you to do something and you really really don't want to do it and it's a really really bad idea you can make that case right that's good you make the case absolutely, but the boss gets a final call right and now if you really really disagree with the boss then don't take the job or quit your job or whatever it is right but you get feedback but not a final dispensation, and And that's, I think, what the men are looking for, is submission. That where I am the expert, you can have your input, but I get the final say.

[42:40] I mean, it's very much how it works in my marriage, that, you know, where my wife has expertise, I have input, she has the final say, and vice versa. Is that submission? I don't think so. I think it's, you know, like when my dentist says, you know, you need to do X, Y, or Z, you know, maybe get a water pick because you've got your wisdom teeth. Maybe you've got to get a water pick back in there. It's like, am I submitting? Am I enslaved? Do I have no identity? It's like, no, she knows what she's doing. That's why I pay her so she can tell me what to do she has authority am I submitting to her and losing my identity as no I'm not submitting to her because I chose my dentist, right you're not submitting to your boss because you choose your boss and you're not submitting to your husband or your wife because you choose your husband or your wife so you can't be and you can't be enslaved to that which you choose right, I can't choose to get a mortgage and then say, I'm enslaved to the bank for three grand a month. Those bastards stealing. It's like, I chose to buy the house.

[43:51] How can you be enslaved by your choices? That's a, I mean, that's a foundation. It's almost a praxeological contradiction. I'm enslaved by my choices. I choose to go to school. I'm enslaved by homework. It's like, no, that's what you have to do, right? To go to school, you've got to do some homework. And so if you choose the man, then you should choose the man whose decisions you're going to respect. And you should also know that you have different skills, abilities, interests, and talents.

[44:32] You know, like the amount of fruit trays and dessert trays my wife believes that we need when people come over is incomprehensible to me.

[44:43] I don't understand why we need like tiers and layers of cool things for people to snack on. But it's always gone when they're done and everybody has a great time. So I just, am I submitting to her? No, because I chose her. I chose her, I respect her judgment. She's a fantastic homemaker and she's great at organizing social stuff so that's what she does, do I agree with it or understand it not in particular but I cede my I cede the decisions to her because she's the expert, now am I am I submitting to her well I don't know I mean I go out and get the stuff.

[45:26] Am I enslaved Enslaved? I mean, no more than I would be enslaved to my doctor if she said, hey, porky, you need to drop some weight. Look at your BMI. Am I enslaved? No. I chose my doctor. I choose my doctor because I respect his or her advice. And so how am I enslaved? By choosing the people that I defer to. You know, my accountant says X, Y, or Z. Okay. My lawyer says X, Y, or Z. Okay. Am I, am I, I'm submitting. I mean, it's like, what are you talking about? They're the experts. I'll, you know, they make recommendations. I mean, I'll have some input. But I'm going to do what they say. You know, we might, there might be a bit of back and forth, right? So, sorry, go ahead.

[46:22] The Paradox of Enslavement by Choices

[46:22] No, it's, it's, it's totally fine. on uh yeah so it's like philosophically logically speaking you're absolutely right and i think you sort of you mentioned this before sort of programming thing because there is a lot of people that you know they clearly made choices like all the single moms out there i mean that's an obvious example i mean men have theirs too as well but um you know they're like i made all these choices but i'm enslaved to these choices i made but i'm not going to connect the dots because uh well that that's because that's obviously you know poor judgment thing that'd be a, they kind of can't in a way they can but they can't that makes sense like emotionally like back onto yeah.

[46:59] It's kind of like if if you're a doctor and some potential patient comes to you and say and that your patient says to you i will never submit to your recommendation i will never submit to you would you would you as a doctor take on a patient who absolutely promised that she would not do what what you recommend would not do what you say would fight you on everything would disagree with you on everything and wouldn't take your advice. Like, oh, you have an ear infection. That would be kind of crazy. You need to take some antibiotics. No, I will not submit to you. Well, you couldn't be their doctor, right?

[47:35] Right, right.

[47:38] So when you choose a doctor, you also choose to submit to what that doctor says. Now, there could be disagreements. You know, obviously there was disagreements about the vaccine and so on. So I get that there can be disagreements and you do, I mean, have a final say, but why would you choose a doctor that you wouldn't submit to? Why would you choose a doctor that you'd fight all the time? Or you'd only submit if you felt like it?

[48:06] Yeah i mean i had a i had a situation some some years ago uh where i went to the doctor and they recommended a course of action i'm like well i i don't like not not that it's like i was like in terms of like just my situation i was at the times like the insurance wasn't going to work out something they did find something it's like so what alternatives can are there what can i do to find out there is a problem that you did that dig into dig into further and then just sort of eat that if i have to um and so they gave me a course of action and it's like okay there's nothing you the one that was less invasive essentially it's like okay no there's there's nothing for us to sort of pick up right now um if that makes sense yeah.

[48:42] Like when i had my ankylosed tooth i ended up with a gum pocket of like eight or nine millimeters and i just it wasn't anything to do with oral hygiene it was just that my tooth was still bonded to the bone so it just developed a pocket now my dentist said well we can yank it or you can try and manage it right and and i'm like.

[49:02] Well i don't So.

[49:03] Dental Battles and Tough Choices

[49:03] You know, for, I don't know, seven or eight years, I kind of battled this pocket, right? I dipped my floss into mouthwash and, you know, when I went in, she'd really clean it out and she'd maybe put some, had these little antibiotic tiny pills that they put up in there. And I fought that good fight for like, I don't know, seven or eight years. And then it was like, yeah, sorry, the pocket has won, right? Because it tends to get worse and you can't really, you can't really clean that stuff, right? So but but she gave me the choice so of course i have input now she didn't give me the choice in a sense when the tooth was just toast right she didn't say you can still manage this, i mean the tooth had gone disco purple like something bizarre was going on down there now she of course she's not going to force me to get the tooth extracted, right she can't strap me down right but if i say i'm not going to deal with this you know totally dying rotting tooth then she probably would not have kept me on as a patient at least with much enthusiasm if that makes sense.

[50:15] Yeah that totally makes sense uh i had a i had the molar uh not not exactly the same situation but uh i got the root canal done on ages ago.

[50:27] Yeah i remember that Um.

[50:28] And, and, uh, you know, the, the just kept getting a decay, decay, decay for whatever reason. And they're like, well, so the dentist was like, okay, so look, we can either, uh, basically shave the jawbone down to try to build it up so that you can have it. But if you do that and we have to lose the tooth anyway, then you're not gonna be able to get an implant at all. So I'm like, I'd rather have this molar. Cause like the first molar is like really important, you know, and I don't have my wisdom teeth. You um so uh it was it was just like okay so that's what i'm gonna do.

[51:00] Right right yeah i mean when i got my tooth removed they uh they said we should get you some uh night guards right so the teeth don't drift because they're like what do you want it replaced and i'm like well no because when i got my upper tooth removed you know they drilled through a bunch of nerves and i have a little bit of a voice a little bit of a mouth droop on one side right and so i'm like well no i don't want, like, what are my options? Well, you know, you can either get a bridge, which means drilling into healthy teeth, and I wasn't too keen on that, or, you know, you can wear night guides and hope that your teeth don't drift.

[51:35] And I'm like, okay, let's do that. That seems good. And that's been working out fine. So that's submission. Am I submitting? I still have some feedback. I still have some choices. But when my dentist who helped me battle this gum pocket for like seven or eight years, when she said, I'm pretty sure the tooth is toast. And you know, it's never good when you leave your dentist to go immediately to another dentist. Like, that's never a good thing. Because I had to then go and get the tooth. We had to get all of these weird x-rays done and they were hoping that maybe they could pull the tooth down by elastics with the teeth around it or something like that. But no, it was like completely fused with the jawbone. They said it should have been taken care of when I was a kid, but it wasn't because it's British government dentistry. So when she said and the dentist all said, it's got to go, So, okay, it's got to go.

[52:34] Yeah, yeah.

[52:35] I mean, that's submission to their expertise. And I think if you go to the dentist and you say, I'm never going to take any advice, and I'm going to blame you when things go wrong, what's the dentist going to say? Oh, I'm sorry, we're all full up.

[52:49] Yeah, yeah.

[52:50] Right? And so if your wife is not going to take any advice, but is going to blame you when things go wrong, that's a problem, right? If you say to your lawyer, I'm not going to take any legal advice, and I'm going to sue you if something goes wrong, the lawyer is not going to represent you. And lawyers that I've talked to over the years, they give you options where you can do this, you could do that, you hear the cost. But, you know, but whatever you do, you got to take their advice, like whatever path you take. So that submission thing when I sort of put it this way I mean engineers hopefully are submitting to the realities of gravity and tensile strength otherwise everything's going to fall apart, If you have an engineer who says, I don't submit to physics, I consider that sole enslavement, you may not want to be that. You may not want to have that engineer in charge of your projects, right?

[53:58] I know that software has been getting pretty bad lately, but I mean, your software, it'll either compile or run or it'll have bugs or your customers will pay for it or not, right? So it's, I mean, you have to submit to the customer at that point.

[54:10] Yeah you have to submit to the customer i mean if you order a phone with 128 gigs of storage and it comes with only 64 you're going to take it back right, right yep because they haven't submitted to what they right so i don't know i just i find this question of submission really interesting and i don't know if it's because the stretching out of women's adolescent phase is going on for like damn near two decades these days and even beyond right where it's like i i want to be young attractive and have men defer to me based upon my physical beauty or sexiness or whatever but that's going on like into a woman's 40s right i don't know if you followed any of this stuff it's quite interesting on twitter uh is it pearl Pearl, uh, Pearly Things, Pearl Davis, she did a tweet which said, a woman at 25 is more attractive than a woman at 35. This used to be common sense knowledge not too long ago. Now, she got 16 million views on that tweet. And it really was a bit of a horror show because what would happen is you'd get these half-naked middle-aged women tweeting pictures at Pearly Things saying, well, I'm hotter now than I ever was.

[55:30] But they've literally done smell tests with men right what what do you find most attractive and younger women smell more attractive like when they can't even see the woman right so yeah sorry that's just the way it is right so and and again you know or women who are like well i lost 100 pounds it's like okay okay i get that right so if you've lost if you're 100 pounds less at 35 than you were at 25 you're probably more attractive at 35 but that's the exception that proves the rule and that's holding another variable that's not constant, right? All other things being constant, yeah, you're more attractive at 25 than 35. And it's usually true for men as well, at least physically, right? So I don't know if it's because there's this eternal... I think for a woman, deferral is saying, I'm not as attractive. Like maybe the women measure their level of attractiveness by... How much deferral they get. And a woman who submits is confessing to being less attractive because she can't command men based upon her immeasurable beauty.

[56:37] And I know, I don't know, but it's a strange thing. It's like women with all these rules. Like you've got these middle-aged women with all these rules. Yeah, I got a three month rule. I got to this rule. I got to that rule that you can't text too much, but you got to text enough. And I'm not going to bend to your schedule. And it's like, why are you upping the rules and requirements when the goods are lower in value? That's odd to me. But yeah, maybe it's just this eternal adolescence of the women who want to remain as in demand at 48 as they were at 21. I'm not sure exactly, but I think submission has become something like humiliation. And there's just been a lot of programming about how submission is. But yeah, so there is this strange thing where submission is considered base, self-erasing and humiliating. And as a man, I really have a tough time understanding that.

[57:40] Joy in Submission and Rigorous Analysis

[57:40] I take great joy in submitting to the needs of philosophy. I take great joy in submitting to the needs of my family. I take great joy in subjecting my arguments to rigorous reason and evidence analyses. Like the whole point of the, one of the major points of the peaceful parenting book is theory, practice, and data, right? Like science, following the scientific method. I got a conjecture, a hypothesis, I'm going to test it according to the, I'm going to put the experiment into practice, and then I'm going to measure the data, right? So that's why theory, practice, and data is the structure of peaceful parenting. I take great joy in subjecting the theory of peaceful parenting to a rigorous analysis of theory, practice, and data. It's great. So submission, it's funny. And as women have become more resistant to submission, they've become less happy, which is exactly what you'd expect, right? I mean, if you won't submit to things, you get unhappy. If you won't submit to the need to exercise or eat well or whatever, right, you're going to be unhappy. If you don't submit to the need to rest and not just work all the time, you're going to get unhappy. So, yeah, I find it. Sorry, go ahead.

[59:00] You think maybe like, is there kind of a connection between how like, so like women, it seems like in the modern world don't have any issue submitting to like, it's almost like institutionalized culture or institutions. And I wonder if when they, like they balk so much at this idea of submission because they're like projecting the degree to which they should reject this institutionalized nonsense onto the men that for the most part just kind of want to help them.

[59:26] Well, if you bond with people, it's tougher to get you to bond with ideology. Right. So if you bond with a loving husband who provides, it's kind of tough to hate and fear the patriarchy. Right. So if you can bond with people, it's tough. The receptors for ideology are blocked if you bond with actual people, which is why ideologues tend to be so isolated. So I think that you want to block bonding with people in order to get your hooks in or get your plugs in of ideology. So it's a competitor. editor, right? So the more you bond with people, the less ideologues have control over you. You know, if your dad is a sort of benevolent owner of a small business and you love him and you worked with him and he helped you learn and everybody has a good time at work and so on, and you have sort of intimate knowledge and connection and love with the people involved, it's kind of tough to get to, you know, capitalists are unholy, proletariat, exploiting scum who should be strung up by their thumbs, right? But it's only in the absence of personal connection that ideology tends to rewire people's brains with the greatest of ease.

[1:00:42] So I view a woman's love and submission to her husband as indirect competition to her submission to ideology. So naturally, the first thing that ideology would have to do is to make her hostile towards submitting to a man or the family or whatever, right? Because that way she's more susceptible to propaganda. Does that make sense?

[1:01:06] Like the virus is most successful. It can bypass the immune system and the immune system to against ideology, which is viewing people as hysterical moral categories rather than individuals who can be judged rationally. So I think, I think it's like, you know, I mean, we, we were a competitor to the mainstream media, so they had to sort of wipe us out or wipe me out in order to try and maintain their own market share. And I think ideology teaches...

[1:01:32] Oh, right, and if you're raised without... No, sorry.

[1:01:34] No, you go ahead, sorry.

[1:01:36] Well, if you're raised kind of how a lot of modern women are, unfortunately, without a father, then you're going to cling to ideology and you're already going to have that poor example of masculinity set and it's this kind of doom loop that results in whole races and cultures not reproducing.

[1:01:53] Right, yeah, yeah. I mean, you have to sort of trauma bond with your mother with the mutual hatred of the male because it's a sour grapes, right? You couldn't get or keep a good man and so all men are trash and that's how you trauma bond with your mother is in sort of mutual hatred of and then you put all men in an abusive category rather than judge each man individually and morally and rationally. So, yeah, I think there is this big competition thing and that's why I think, women have been programmed.

[1:02:25] Vanity, Submission, and Choosing Suffering

[1:02:25] That submission to the man, to the needs, to the family and so on is enslavement with the obvious thing that so and you've seen this meme right where this, this feminist says to a woman who's going to job it's like okay so you you submit and serve a man who doesn't care about you at all then would replace you in a moment so you're strong and empowered and that's really healthy and wonderful as opposed to the the housewife raising kids well so you've submitted and served the needs of a man who loves you and treasures you and gives you your children and pays your bills and will take care of you forever you're enslaved like it's so mental right like there is no not submission in the world you you can choose your submission, right like as james was saying if i if i choose not to lose weight i'm choosing the ill health and i have to submit to that i have to submit to the pain of bad knees i have to submit to the pain of, you know, whatever illnesses can come out of obesity. So I have to, I'm going to, like, you're going to submit to something, you know, it's like choose your suffering. You go to the gym, it hurts now, you don't go to the gym, it hurts a whole lot more later and probably is unrecoverable or could be.

[1:03:37] So, yeah, it's a, it's a strange thing. And I suppose maybe that's a demonic vanity to think that you don't have to serve anyone like that. All submission is bad. All submission. I mean, isn't it completely narcissistic to say that any submission to anyone or anything completely destroys your identity? It's like, why can't your identity be manifested in that which you submit to?

[1:04:00] I would say what the programming is also tapping into, tapping into for women who do have fathers in the household. Old it's like submission to their father was more like a control like they didn't really have say and so i think the programming is also tapping to that it's like from submission inside the family is kind of like denying myself.

[1:04:19] Right and and of course the way that wisdom accumulated over thousands of generations get destroyed is to continually program young people to view their parents as obsolete and bigoted and prejudiced and foolish and you know we've talked about this There's a bunch on the show, How Will These Kids Show, where the kids are super wise and the parents are all out of touch and stupid. So you'll break all of that. But then the thing is, there's this illusion. Okay, well, if I don't listen to my parents, I'm free. No, you're not. You then just end up being programmed by people who don't care about you. Because you've got to figure out how to live. And if it's not going to be your parents who hopefully care about you, it's going to be strangers who just want to manipulate you for political gain. The idea that if you reject the patriarchy, you're free, it's like, well, no, now you're just programmed by ideology. Like if you dislike men, you're not free of prejudice. It's just programmed now. You're programmed to dislike men, and now you can't fall in love. And if you can't fall in love, you stay single. And if you stay single, you vote for the left, right? I mean, this is the basic. So I think that the no submission thing makes women less attractive. Therefore, they stay single. Therefore, they vote for the left. I mean, I think it's in America, the single women are the biggest and most reliable demographic for voting left.

[1:05:48] So you're not free. I mean, there's this weird illusion that if you don't submit to an individual, you're free. Well, you're not. I mean, if my nutritionist says you should change your diet or you're going to get sick, and I'm like, screw you, man. I'm not going to listen to you. I'm going to be free of consequences. It's like, okay, so I've just chosen illness instead. If you keep eating like this, you're going to get diabetic. Screw you, man. I want to be free and liberated. It's like now I'm enslaved to insulin and, right, testing my blood. So yeah it's it's a strange thing the idea is if you get rid of these rules you end up with no rules.

[1:06:27] That's a great point it's like tough it types it taps right into that female vanity like you're not to be controlled it's your own rules and that's satanic saying.

[1:06:36] Yeah but what i do what i will i do what that wills right and i said though it harm no others it's like, well, that's not, right? That's all cast by the wayside because doing what that willed is harming others, but it gets you to focus on the harm to others rather than the harm to self, right? I mean, I don't like going to the dentist. You know, they're in there with their scrapey stuff and all of that, right? I mean, I have to consciously not be rigid, right? Because when they're in there blowing that water shit and scraping away, you're just waiting for them to hit some soft gooey, ow, right? And so the whole time I'm like, please don't hurt, please don't hurt, please don't, okay, relax, relax, please don't hurt, right? And so I don't like going to the dentist, but I go to the dentist because the option is much worse if I don't. So I don't know, screw you dentist, I'm free. It's free to have, what, a heart attack because I swallowed so much bacteria. So yeah, it's an odd thing, but I guess it's part of ideology or this, You know, thou shalt not submit. And the funny thing is, is that the women who say, how dare you, I will never submit and so on, they tend to be the most submissive, I think, as somebody was saying earlier, to like insane social norms.

[1:07:53] There might be a feeling of being forced into a worse option among women, I mean. Because let's say that you have been promised heaven and earth throughout your entire young life. And then suddenly, because the wall is coming towards you, you feel forced into picking a lower-tier guy or a lower-tier job or something like that. So I think there might be some resentment behind it as well.

[1:08:24] Right. So you've been lied into trying to pick a good husband out of the early to mid-30s detritus and leftovers. And then you can't find a good husband or someone that you want. And you're an alpha widow, right? Because you subsidized your dating market value with sex when you were younger. So you're expecting this lineup of millionaires and you get, you know, a couple of basement dwellers with neckbeards. and you're really mad, but you can't get mad at yourself. So you get mad at the patriarchy, at society, at capitalism, like whatever, right? Rather than the people who, and it's a very common phenomenon, right? That when you tell the truth, people get mad at you rather than the people who lie to them, right? And when the inevitable consequences of bad decisions accrue, that's another way that people get ideology going, right? Well, men are just too selfish to appreciate a great woman, right?

[1:09:22] Or, yeah, so I think that also when you can breed failure, the failure opens up more receptors to the plugins of ideology. Because, look, I don't know. I mean, I don't know about you guys. I don't think anyone here would be in that category. But I don't think I've done anything in particular that screwed up my life beyond repair. I mean, don't get me wrong. I've had some near misses for sure, but I don't look back at my life and say, oh my God, if only I'd done this, that, or the other. I mean, I think I've navigated things fairly well in a, you know, a pretty, pretty tricky environment.

[1:10:02] Navigating Life and Avoiding Regrets

[1:10:02] I think I've navigated things fairly well. You know, I have ended up with the good friends good family a good and meaningful way to spend my time and all of that so i don't look back and say oh god this is so terrible you know like somebody asked me the other day what you wish you'd known in your 20s that you know now i'm like i'm not fucking with anything i i wouldn't if i could send a message back in a bottle i i wouldn't because whatever i sent back would change where I am now, and where I am now is great. So...

[1:10:37] I don't know really what it's like to have really fucked up, like, to the point where, like, you know, I don't know, like, and there could be people here, and, you know, I mean, I think there's lots of repair options in philosophy, but for the general population, you know, like the guy who's just, I mean, you've heard some of these guys in the call-in show, you're like, I married the wrong woman, I ended up going to jail, and, and I don't see my kids, and it's like, like, that's really, that's a catastrophe, and I think I've made mistakes in my life. Of course, you can't take any risks and not make mistakes, but I don't think I've done anything where I like, I can't think of anything where I'm like, man, I really shouldn't have spent those 10 years on crack or, you know, I shouldn't have, you know, joined this criminal organization or I shouldn't have, you know, spent five years in divorce court or, you know, like I just haven't messed up that bad. And I think it's hard to get into the mindset of people whose whose mistakes are unrecoverable. And I think that ideology kind of swoops in there, and gets, like, relieves them from the possibility of self-blame. And when you've messed up to the point where it can't be repaired, it's almost, I mean, you really can't take responsibility. Like, what would be the point? And you're very fertile ground for other blaming.

[1:11:57] So, yeah, that's what that was. Any other last comments or questions? I should probably get a little lunchy lunch into me. I've just had a little bit of yogurt and fruit today. So anything else that people wanted to mention at the end? And of course I do want to thank you guys enormously as always for your very kind support of the show. And if anybody's listening to this later, freedomade.com slash donate to help out the show. And if there's anybody who wants to close up, I'd certainly be happy to hear.

[1:12:22] I just wanted to say, I think the word submission is kind of thrown around a lot in our childhood to mean self-erasure kind of like school the teacher or at home your parents will say i need these kids to be good and submissive and to just do whatever i'm told and not question me.

[1:12:40] I think i think you're right yeah and i i think that's an excellent point because the word gets kind of poisoned by you know sit down shut up and raise your hand to go to the bathroom and maybe i'll let you go when you're when you're a kid so i think that level of yeah and so i think maybe Maybe it's like, you'll be the bullying teacher and I'll be the numb student dead from the neck up. And I think that does, I think that is it. And that's why I didn't agree with the guy using the word submission. But I do think it's an important conversation to have. But I think it's a fantastic point. If we had better schools, then submission wouldn't be based on bullying, but based on self-interest. Because to submit based on self-interest is not submission at all, it's self-liberation. So I think it's an excellent point. Thank you.

[1:13:26] Exactly.

[1:13:29] All right, going once, going twice. You guys got to check out the show. It's a long show, but it's well worth it. With the woman who hung up on me first time in free domain history. I had a woman hang up on me in the middle of a call. She got so upset. But anyway, we did talk about it later. So it's very interesting to see how we picked it up. So I hope you'll check that out. Should be out in the next day or two. Thanks everyone so much for your support, for a great conversation, for the best philosophy on the planet that will ever happen. Because after this, there is this beforehand. So we are the icebreakers. Everyone who comes after has a much easier time. So thanks, everyone, so much. Lots of love. Take care. Bye.

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