Greedy Mother, Greedy Wife! Freedomain Call In - Transcript

Rough Relationship Revelations

[0:00] Okay, so I have a really rough relationship with my girlfriend.
We are together for 12 years.
And we have two sons, five and nine.
And lately we have...
I really don't know where to start, to be honest, but I'm just going to tell you.

[0:30] The last six months, well, actually, last years, we were living almost separate, like I was living in a separate bedroom and we had very little interaction compared to how it should be, I think.
we went to for canceling like three times every time we were we went for like maybe three sessions five sessions and we will stop going because we would say like okay this is a little bit better let's let's continue by by ourself and like a year later it would be that again, like around six months ago i think i i i think i think i figure out what was bothering my wife I'm calling her my wife sometimes because people call us husband and wife because we have one house, cars, kids, you know all that how it's supposed to be in marriage at least outside.
We went for.

[1:46] For my girlfriend, ex-boyfriend invited us to his sailboat.
And I like, I was walking from very far.
I was walking from very far and I can see the different sailboat was alone.
And I was walking for like 10 minutes and I can see the sailboat.
And when I came close to the sailboat, I was talking to my, to my nephew because he came to visit.
And after two or three minutes, and it was like literally a hundred degree, my girlfriend appeared with her ex-boyfriend from within the sailboat.
So it means they were there for like at least 10 minutes and it was like a hundred degree and they were laughing.
And I was like, shit, she either like cheated on me or she's about to cheat on me soon because this is how it looked.

[2:52] So I next day I told her I want to fix things I want to be more like a guy I think I was inspired by one of your calling shows where there was guy who was living with his wife and another couple and kids didn't know who the father was everything was kind of implied everything was like, like that yeah so i was talking with her next day and she seemed like she liked the idea but i think she was this is how i feel this is how i feel she was just using my, my goodwill just to be further and further and next in next three months i'm not proud but i I checked her phone and I saw like for last two or three years, there was like literally no pictures of us and children, but there was a couple, she had a couple pictures of.

[3:59] And her ex-boyfriend with our children. And literally by mistake, I didn't do it, but I just continue.
Actually on our home computer, what she's using for work, her google account was logged in so you can see her location.
and and i was checking her location i'm not gonna i'm not gonna lie when i come back to from work i would check what she was doing and like i discovered she's going for for uh for for.

[4:43] Nice lunch significantly more often than i thought and and i caught her, three times going to hotel going to hotel 10 minutes from our house each time for like half an hour and one time for like hour and a half and i i make a i ask her she said it's nothing it's not your business i'm just helping somebody it's like how you can fucking help, help, what kind of help?" She promised to not tell anybody and I asked her like 10 times, are you cheating on me? And she didn't say nothing.

[5:30] And then she said, I'm not cheating on you after like 10 minutes, maybe 15 minutes of like loud and angry argument.
And a month later, she thought, and I told her like, your Google account is logged in. I saw it.
I saw it. And what is it? She said, like, I promised I'm just helping with something.
Not nice, but this is not your business. Like, that should be my business.
And like a month later, which was a month ago, that happened again.
That happened again. And I said, what did you do?

[6:12] Sorry, you mean that she went to the hotel?

[6:15] Yes.

[6:16] Okay.

[6:17] Yes, yes, yes. You can, yes, I can see she was in this hotel 10 minutes away from our house, let's say 6 p.m. or 7 p.m. And she was there at least half an hour.
yeah so I asked her angrily of course next day what did you do what did you do and she said nothing and I said what did you do in hotel and she said I wasn't at hotel, and she lied also about one of those previous times because I was literally on the computer and I saw she was at hotel and I called her and asked her where are you and she said she's, I'm at my parents house Yeah.
So I left house because I just didn't want to continue.

[7:10] I thought like, okay, this is like fucking you're cheating on me.
I spent night at my parents' house.
She called me a couple of times. And next day we...
I'm sorry, I left house and I, because something was, something is off in our relationship, regardless if she's cheating on me or not, because I don't, she's, she had some kind of weird explanation, I can tell you later.
I went to her parents house and I said like you know what your daughter is cheating on me she was cheating on her first husband because she was married before and she actually admitted to cheating on her husband and sorry did.

[8:01] You know this before you got together with her.

[8:04] Well I knew she told me that when we were in like first months but okay.

[8:14] So you basically married a cheater.

[8:17] Yes yes I did just.

[8:19] So we know just so we're aware.

[8:21] You married a cheater okay yes I did she was explaining our relationship was finished this and that but I don't care about.

[8:33] Why on earth you'd listen to a cheater, justifying her cheating.
I mean, she's already a cheater. She's going to be a liar.
So, if you got together with a cheater, and obviously I do want to go to...
I do want to go on with the story, but why did you get together with her if she's a cheater?

[8:57] I thought that was the best I can do then.
Yeah. Yeah.

[9:05] She was... Okay, go on.

[9:08] She was significant. I thought that was a significant improvement over my previous relationships.

[9:15] Significant improvement how? I mean, she's a cheater.

[9:19] Well, yeah. Before, I had a bunch of cheating girlfriends. Yes.

[9:24] So, you had cheating girlfriends, and your upgrade is a cheating girlfriend. Help me understand.

[9:32] Well, she wasn't married when we met.

[9:39] No, no, but she admitted to cheating on her husband.

[9:42] Yes, yes.

[9:43] Before you got, I mean, early on, right? In the relationship with you.

[9:47] Yes.

[9:48] So help me understand. Look, I'm not blaming you. I just want to understand, how is it possible that it's an upgrade?
You said, I had girlfriends who cheated with me, so I thought I'd solve it by getting together with a girl who cheated on her husband.

[10:04] My previous girlfriends they were even worse I think in what way what way hmm, uh they they had they had even worse family and they were cheating more or they were addicted to drugs.

[10:27] Okay okay so you've dated drug addicts and abuse victims and then you thought you'd upgrade by i guess your your wife when you met her she wasn't a drug addict but she was just just a A cheater, but not a drug addict, right?

[10:45] Yes.

[10:46] Did she have any other addictions or any addictions at all?

[10:50] Actually, lately, she drinks more than a regular person.
I figured this out a couple of months ago when I started to pay attention to what she's exactly doing, not what she's talking or telling me.
Yeah, usually she drinks at least twice a week, three times a week.
Whenever she's ironing or doing laundry, she has a drink.

Unexpected Encounter

[11:21] And when did that start?

[11:32] A couple of years ago. A couple of years ago.

[11:36] Okay so sorry if you want to I just wanted to make sure I understood that if you could go on with your, with your story.

[11:50] Okay so what she said this is, she said that her ex-boyfriend, she calls her her friend.
I'm not 100% sure they have sex, but they have emotional relationship.

[12:20] Sorry, this isn't the ex with the sailboat, right?

[12:24] This is the guy from the sailboat, yes.

[12:26] Okay, and this is not her ex-husband, this is a guy she...

[12:31] Yes.

[12:31] Who was her boyfriend after the husband? Before?

[12:37] I'm calling her, this guy, her ex-boyfriend but she said they they never really dated they just had sex couple times when she when she didn't have any relationship and he didn't have any relationship yes okay.

[12:54] Like friends with benefits i think is the phrase that people use for.

[12:57] This yes okay yes yes yes yes so So she said she was renting room for him so he can cheat on her wife, on his wife.

[13:15] Yes. Oh, so her story is not that she's cheating. Her story is that she's helping her ex-boyfriend cheat.

[13:22] Yes, exactly.

[13:24] Oh, gosh. That's like the worst excuse I've ever heard in my life.

[13:28] This is the worst. well yeah regardless of the excuse like why you didn't tell me and she said like because this is this is my business not your business was like yeah but we have the children together and house i don't know we're raising children and she's like that this is this is not your business and she Now she is angry because her family doesn't talk to her.
He doesn't talk to her because I told them, like, okay, if she was not cheating, she was, like, paying for a room for this guy.
They know them. They know him because they almost dated.
Her family thinks they almost dated, like, 15 years ago.
Yes. He's, like, 20 years older, but he cares about himself.
But he's still 20 years older than us.

[14:34] And is he... I assume the sailboat. Is he wealthy?

[14:39] Above average, yes. Actually, his wife now, his wife who's on cheating, she is wealthy because she inherited some money.
She's also Polish. She inherited some money because three people from her family died and they were all super famous neurosurgeons or whatever, something like that.
They all died within two or three years Oh.

[15:06] So his wife inherited a bunch of money.

[15:09] Yes, but he also has a company and he's not super wealthy, but he's significantly above average.

[15:18] So how many multiples of his wealth and assets, how many times more wealthy is he than you?

[15:26] At least two, maybe three.

[15:30] In terms of total assets, not just income. Income. Yeah, total assets.
Like he's got a sailboat and stuff. I assume he's fairly wealthy.

[15:39] Well, this sailboat is kind of shitty. It's not super nice sailboat, but it's still sailboat.

[15:45] Okay, so two to three times more wealthy than you. Is that right?

[15:48] Yes, at least three. Let's say three.

[15:50] Three times. Okay. Okay. So, sorry.
So, she's mad because her family's not talking to her. And what else?

[15:59] Uh well, i don't know what's the best outcome for our children how should i.

[16:09] No no no i mean sorry we're not getting to your kids just yet or the future we've still got a lot to talk about with regards to the past okay so um i'm not sure how direct you're being with me i mean i'm not saying that you're not telling me the truth but i'm not sure how much of the truth you're telling me So, this kind of behavior from a woman almost always comes about because she's very attractive and amoral, right?
So, how pretty is she?

[16:45] Seven, max, maybe six. Six.
To be honest, like, I'm honest.

[16:52] Okay, listen, I have no way of independently verifying what you're saying, so I'm obviously going to take you, I'm going to take what you say, right? That's fine.

[17:01] Yes, but this sailing, let's say, crowd or friends, they are all 10, 15 years older, so she looks prettier there because she's younger. She's like in her 40s.

[17:15] She's in her 40s and they're in their mid 50s or 60 okay so she would be like a 9 or a 10 to them right yes yes okay got it got it, all right and was she like in terms of your different level of attractiveness would you say that you're roughly the same or she's more attractive or you're more attractive or how's that I.

[17:42] Think we are roughly the same.

[17:45] Okay. So can you tell me a little bit about your childhood or a lot?
Because, of course, you ended up with these women who were addicts and cheaters and so on.
So I assume that your childhood was fairly messy, but I could be wrong.
Tell me what happened with you.

[18:04] I thought about it. I thought about it a lot.
And my, my mother, well, I was raised mostly without father from age 14 to 21.
Because my father, my parents did not split up.
But my father, the way he was working, and how far he was working, how much he was traveling, like I almost never saw him.
actually i i'm figuring figuring this out lately like why i am the way i am and i think about, things the way i think yeah thanks to thanks to listening to you and couple books i'm figuring this out lately to be honest.

[18:52] Okay, so, sorry, you were mostly without a father to the age of 14, and then what happened?

[18:59] No, from 14...

[19:01] Oh, 14 onwards, I'm so sorry, my apologies. Yes.

[19:03] Yes. Yes. And I remember when I like start meeting my father when I was like my 20s, 21, 20, like he looked completely different.
And even my mother said he's like not the guy he was before.
He's like more feminine and not decisive.

[19:26] I'm sorry, when was that transition?

[19:31] No. Well, my father was traveling a lot and working remotely.
I mean, and my parents kind of live, were living separately.
They were still married, but because of my father's job, he was rarely home.
and I remember like I was I was raised mostly by my mother from like no sorry and.

[19:59] I got that you just said that your father had become more feminine and I was just trying to figure out when that happened.

[20:03] When when I I figured this out when I start meeting him again and my mother just said yes it's it's little little bit like that it took all of him yes.

[20:21] But when did you start meeting him again.

[20:22] In my 20s.

[20:25] Okay got it and so at 14 did your father moved back in or did your parents split up or what happened.

[20:31] No he left for a different country to work and he was back like every six months for, two to three weeks and then he would come back for like one month it was like really messy life living in.

[20:48] Yeah, you can stay off places, but okay, I understand. Okay, so did your parents split up?

[20:57] No, never.

[20:58] Oh, and did he end up living back together with your mother, or does he still do this remote travel stuff?

[21:02] No, no, he doesn't. My father just left for the U.S.
a couple of times, and he would stay in the U.S. for like a year just to work and make money for us.

[21:12] Yeah, that's remote travel, isn't it?

[21:14] Yes, yes. Yes, I just want to clarify something.

[21:16] So when I said, does he do this remote travel thing, you said no, and then you said, yes, he does. I just want to make sure we're on the same page.

[21:21] Okay, I'm sorry.

[21:22] No, that's fine. So does he still do this remote travel, or is he retired?

[21:27] No, they just retired, both my parents, like six months ago.

[21:32] And why do you think he did all of this travel?

[21:37] Well, to make more money for her family.

Startling Sacrifices for Money

[21:41] Yeah well i understand that i'm sure there was a benefit that's kind of obvious but why would he be willing to do that like if somebody said to me uh well you can make more money but you're going to have to only see your family a month or two a year what would i say no way no of course not i i value time with my family over more money right so the real question is why would he do all all of this work instead of spending time with you and your mother?

[22:13] I don't know. I didn't ask him.

[22:16] Well, I'm sure that you do know. I mean, you may not know it consciously, but I basically assume we know everything there is to know about our families.
So there must be something that you know.

[22:28] I think he didn't value time with family as much as maybe he should.

[22:34] Okay. Okay, I'm going to need you to get a little deeper here.

[22:38] Okay.

[22:38] Because what you're saying is, if I say, why didn't he want to spend much time with his family?
And you say, because he didn't value time with his family as much.
It's like, well, of course, but why?
You're just describing what I said. That's not an insight, right?

[22:55] Yes.

[22:56] Like if I said, why do I think so-and-so doesn't exercise?
It's like, well, they just don't put much value on exercising.
It's like, well, no, I get that.
But the question is why? So why did your father want to give up a romantic life, a sex life, a time with his children?
Why was he willing to do that for money?

[23:18] Vygotsky, Wanted money more than family, yes.

[23:24] Okay, so I will say this again. He could have gotten money for the family staying in your home country. It just wouldn't have been as much, right?

[23:33] Yes.

[23:34] Okay, so it's not that he wanted money for the family. He could have got money from the family by staying locally, right?

[23:41] Yes, yes.

[23:42] Right, so he went to another place. Maybe he got more money.
Of course, you have to have a separate household in America or other places.
There's travel costs and so on. So it's not like you make a huge amount more money, usually.

[23:57] No, actually, no.

[23:57] Okay, so it's not just about, it wasn't that he did this to get money, because there's lots of ways of getting money.
And he did it to get a small amount, I assume, of more money at the incredibly high cost of not seeing his family and not raising his children.
So that's the question. It's not to do with money.

[24:14] Okay.

[24:15] So why did he not want to spend time with his family?
It's not money, because he could have made money and spent time with his family.
Listen, if he'd come to you when you were a child, right, and he'd have said to you, well, we can have a little bit more money, or you can have a father, what would you have said?

[24:36] Father.

[24:37] Right.

[24:37] Father.

[24:38] Right. If I were to go to my wife and say, well, I can make a little bit more money, but I'm going to be gone 10 or 11 months of the year, she would say, no, that's not a thing.
I don't want more money. I want a husband and a father for her child, right?
So what the heck was going on in your family structure where this was something that happened? It wasn't a necessity.
He wasn't kidnapped, right? He wasn't drafted. He wasn't kidnapped. He voluntarily chose.

[25:06] My girlfriend's family, they had exactly the same structure and father absence.

[25:13] Well, that's interesting, but that's not an answer to my question.

[25:17] Yes.

[25:18] So, why did your father sell his family for money?
He betrayed his children, right? He sold time with his children for money.

[25:47] Yes.

[25:47] He abandoned fatherhood, being the head of the household, or however it works where you are.
He abandoned his wife. He abandoned his children for money. That's about as satanic a bargain as I can imagine.

[26:03] Okay.

[26:05] Don't spend time with your children. Here's 20 bucks. Sounds good to me.
That's unbelievably shitty behavior. And your mother was willing to do that.
Or maybe she encouraged that.
In other words, your mother wanted money over the mental health of her children.

Tracing the Roots of Dysfunction

[26:28] Because for you guys, sorry, do you have siblings?

[26:31] Yes.

[26:32] Okay. And how many?

[26:35] I have one younger sister.

[26:37] Okay. So he gave up the mental health of his children for money, and your mother was, I guess, more than happy to have that happen.

[26:51] Yes, yes, she was.

[26:52] So what an unbelievable, shocking, appalling, terrible situation this is, right?
See, I tell you, there's no amount of money that would have me abandon my family for 10 or 11 months every year.
Like, there's no amount of money. I'd rather live under a bridge in a tent with my family than have a zillion dollars and be gone all the time.
Your father traded fatherhood for fucking money.
like, help me understand this. This is so bizarre to me.
Why would you have children and then, if you don't want to be a father, it's pretty fucking simple, don't have children.
So why would he have children and abandon them for money? Again, I'm just, there's an answer. I don't know what it is.
I have some ideas, but there's no point me doing ideas because you have direct experience, right?
You've been in your family for 40 years or whatever, right? 40 or 45 years.
So you know this shit and I don't. So what's the answer?

[28:08] He really wanted money.

[28:11] Okay, then that's fine. Then if you really want money, you know what's a great way to have money? Don't have children.
Right? Because if you have children, as you know, you spend your money on your kids.
So if you really want money, that's pretty fucking simple. Don't have children.
So that's not the answer. What else have you got?
and understand i'm not mad at you obviously i'm just mad at the situation because it's so terrible.

[28:39] When i think about it i think my my mother wanted more than he but i i just, because i'm i'm kind of overwhelmed i never thought about it this way i mean i thought Not about it this way, but maybe 5% not as much as you said.

[29:02] All right. Are you going to give me an answer or are we going to get more?

[29:05] No. I'm just having the biggest brain fart in my life.

[29:11] That's what I do. I brain fart. Okay. So you think your mom wanted the money more than her husband?

[29:20] Yes, I think. I mean, I think, yes. Yes, especially for that.

[29:26] Okay, well, tell me more about that.

[29:47] I think my mother wanted money and I remember when I was very small I remember she had very very high expectations.
She, I think she wanted just the facade, nice family and nice house, nice car.
And my father just went with it. Or agreed, I don't know, maybe he wanted to.
So, and this is, this is how they sold us with my sister for a couple bucks.

[30:49] All right. So why did your mother want nice stuff instead of a husband and a father for the children that obviously he voluntarily chose to have.

[31:04] Because he didn't love us.
It was just a status symbol.
Just what everybody does, children, because most people had children then.
So you should have children if you have a husband. And your husband should be successful.
This is exactly what my girlfriend is doing right now.

[31:38] Well, of course, that's what I'm kind of getting at. We're not talking about your mother.
Fundamentally, we're talking about your girlfriend. But now it's funny how you've downgraded her from wife to girlfriend.
I'm going to call her my wife. No, now she's my girlfriend. Anyway, sorry, go on.

[31:51] Yes, I'm sorry. Stefan, I don't know.
She didn't love us. She didn't want us.

[32:05] Well, I mean, that's more of a negative. I'm asking what the positive motivation was.
Why did she want money instead of a father for her children and a husband for her life or her bed or whatever we want to say.

[32:20] Because it was easier for her.
More money than...

[32:25] No, it's not easier. I mean, listen, I mean, if you've ever been around kids, I'm sure you have, right? So if you're raising kids without a partner, that's pretty hard in a lot of ways, right?
It's harder in some ways. So I don't know that it's easier. Maybe it is, but I don't know that for sure.

[32:47] This is what my girlfriend is saying, that we don't have money all the time.
Like it just connects with my head all the time.
Whenever you ask about my mother, I'm just saying a little bit of my girlfriend.

[33:06] Okay, so your girlfriend wants money, right?

[33:09] Yes, yes, she wants money. She wants me to make more money all the time. Yes.

[33:15] Okay, and why does she want you to make more money?

[33:20] So we can buy bigger house, bigger car, or newer car.
So kids can go to another, in my humble opinion, useless activity.
Yes, my kids go to every single fucking activity you can imagine and they are super busy.
And she's actually super busy. She works like part time right now.

Desire for Material Gain

[33:45] Uh right uh so it's a lot of what you said there i'm just trying to make sure i, follow what it is that you're you're talking about okay so let's let's go back to your mother we'll get we'll get your girlfriend i i get that you're making these connections i promise you we'll get there because there's not much we can do about your mom but you know you have decisions to make in the press so why does your why did your mother want money rather than a husband.

[34:25] Because she i'm sorry stefan but the only answer i have is like because she just wanted money more than husband and why i don't know.

[34:35] Uh yes you do yeah you do i mean you may not know it consciously but yeah you do you do uh so what okay what benefits did your mother get out of more money well what did she get okay so she got status and and how did that manifest itself like what did she Did she cruise around in an expensive car and throw sandwiches at the peasants? Or what happened?

[35:02] Well, actually, my parents had a really nice house and relatively not a bad car.
And for some time, my father had a company.
So they were above average also.

[35:18] So your father had a company, you mean? Like he ran a business?

[35:21] Yes he ran a business for a couple years when i was like up on up up to 14 yes and then he.

[35:30] Okay so so they had an okay so they had a nice house, a nice nice car and who was your mother impressing with that i assume that we don't just have status on a desert island we have status because we want to show off to i thought about it.

[35:46] Actually I thought about it, and she was impressing her friends from high school, because she was meeting them from time to time, which was weird for me, because I hated some of them.
And she was impressing their siblings, her siblings, yes, because she had four siblings.

[36:11] So she was impressing friends and siblings, is that right?

[36:15] Yes, yes.

[36:18] Okay uh i think i think i understand that and did her siblings do similar things or did her friends do they are just trying to impress each other with big houses and nice cars.

[36:30] Actually all of her siblings are were financially successful maybe except her, youngest sister which is just a teacher but she's.

[36:44] Okay. Financially successful like they worked hard or they went overseas or what do you mean?

[36:50] No, they all run businesses right now.

[36:56] Okay. So does she have male or female siblings? I mean, obviously, I assume both, but what's the proportion?

[37:03] She had one brother and three sisters.

[37:07] Okay. So I'm going to assume that she was mostly competing with her sisters in the money that the husband brought in. Is that right?

[37:13] Yes. Yeah.

[37:15] Okay. And did your mother work? You said, I know your girlfriend works part-time.

[37:19] At the moment, did your mother work when she was… Stefan, can I just mention one thing?
Actually, her brother was super successful, and he was literally our neighbor in our country.
Literally our neighbor. Wait, wait, wait.

[37:37] Hang on, hang on. Are you saying that her brother was successful while living in your home country?

[37:45] Yeah, super successful.

[37:47] Okay, so sorry, I'm a little lost here. I'm sure you can make it clear to me. I'm a little lost.

[37:52] No, you're not lost, and I'm not lost, and I'm making connection right now.

[37:56] Okay, tell me. If you get there, I don't need to say it. So what do you got?

[38:00] No, my father failed business, and he had to leave.

[38:08] Oh, so your father's business in your country, in your home country, failed, and that's why he left?

[38:14] In my mother's eyes. In my mother's eyes, because it was still bringing some money, but it was like, a nice job, not business where you drive.

[38:29] Yeah, because your uncle, he was able to make money without leaving to America, right?

[38:37] Actually, he left for US for maybe eight or nine months just after communist fail and he came back and started business.

[38:45] This is your uncle?

[38:46] Yes.

[38:47] Okay, but he was able to make money while staying in your home country after that period. Is that right?

[38:52] Yes, yes. And now I can see a bunch of excuses like they were excusing why he was making money like, oh, because he knew this guy, because he went to an army and he knew politicians because he was involved in Communist Party, so he had connections blah, blah, blah, but, I remember him very hard working and dedicated also.

[39:16] Well, and maybe he did have these connections. I mean, there's a fair amount of corruption in business but but okay but he was able to do something with it right and of course if your uncle had a good relationship with your father then your uncle would have used his contacts to help your father right actually.

[39:31] Now i don't don't understand why.

[39:35] Why why why.

[39:38] They they because like at the very beginning when my uncle was starting his business and my father was kind starting his business.
My father was late, like one year. Now I make the connection right now.
I get it. I get it. A couple times my uncle helped my father.
But once my father's business was going very slowly forward, but my uncle's business exploded, like literally freaking exploded.
The friendship kind of ended. There was just friendship between my my mother and my uncle's wife. That's it.

[40:20] Okay, so when's that relative to your father going to America?

[40:26] My father went to America maybe five years later.

[40:32] Okay, got it. Okay, so what does that tell you, what you've realized?

[40:42] My mother sent my father to the US.
Because between my parents, my mother is leading the relationship and household.
That's it. You cannot tell it differently.
I think my My mother sent my father to America, so he will bring her some money, some status, so she don't have to excuse herself and my father why they are not as successful as my uncle was. He's dead, by the way.

[41:27] Right, okay. Okay. So, is it true to say that your mother was in significant competition with her sisters over whose husband made more money?
And when one of your aunt's husband made more money, your mother nagged or bullied or threatened her husband to go and get money?

[41:53] Yes, yes, she did. She did.

[41:56] Did you hear that or did you see that or how did that play out in your family?

[42:01] I remember one Christmas when I didn't, me and my sister, we did not get any Christmas presents.
like zero zero not even a stupid pencil and i remember like watching stupid documentary in tv when it was about super poor people and going to christmas and they were showing like people were, borrowing money just to get children just some candy for christmas and i remember why we didn't get any fucking candy and i remember i i think i remember uh my mother didn't work then and i was like if she didn't work and we are so poor and my father's business going so badly maybe she maybe she can do something or we can, i i think she she nagged him i think.

[43:11] But you didn't uh you didn't observe this directly is that right.

[43:15] No no because my parents they uh they uh they didn't talk about money with us but but we can see clearly like there was time when we had more money or less money we never start or anything or like we didn't have any the bills and the media cut off but I know that that was a very hard time.

Religious Reflections and Regrets

[43:46] Right, okay. All right. So, are your parents Christians?

[43:55] Yes.

[43:57] And do they have any problems with the fact that they gave up, or your father gave up parenting for money?
I mean, isn't that kind of what Satan offers Jesus?

[44:08] Nobody sees it this way. Nobody.

[44:11] I don't care what people, why on earth would I care what people claim that they see? I don't care what people claim that they see. I care what actually is.

[44:19] Well, maybe lately. Maybe lately because I was talking with them a couple of times about what's going on with me and my girlfriend.
And they are like, you should leave her. And I was like, no, I fucking choose her.
I didn't know any better. I made a mistake, but we have children.
and I choose her and I knew that, I knew those things I should understand those things before but I didn't.
And when I was telling them those things this way they were mentioning a couple times like we shouldn't split up or maybe we should, Because my sister, I know I'm taking you on an adventure.
My sister also, maybe she had better marriage, but she gave up on college after two years without telling anybody.
I don't know, I think it's because I gave up on college also the same way she did after like two years and you were asking me about, do they have any.

[45:49] Doubts, maybe very little lately, but very little, and nobody really talks about it this way.
Like it was bad. More likely it was noble to go somewhere else and make more money.

The Decision to Go Overseas

[46:06] Well, but it wasn't money that was needed. needed right so so let's say that uh your your father nobody.

[46:15] Nobody says nobody says money were not needed monies are always needed oh.

[46:23] No come on i mean don't let's let's not waste time with that of course you need something okay right but the money wasn't needed because it wasn't like your father couldn't get any work in your home country and had to sadly go overseas to send you back enough money to live in a tiny apartment and take the bus.
Your father could have got a job in your home country, and let's say that you would only have had half the income, right?

[46:52] Yes.

[46:53] But that would have been more than enough for you to live comfortably, right? Maybe you wouldn't have a big house. Maybe you have a small house.
Maybe you don't have an expensive car. Maybe you have a cheaper car.

[47:03] Yes.

[47:04] Maybe you don't take as many vacations. Maybe your mother doesn't buy as expensive a set of dresses.
But it wasn't needed. Like it was not necessary for your father to go overseas for most of your childhood off and on, right?

[47:18] Yes.

[47:19] Okay, so he didn't need to do it. Do we agree on that?

[47:23] Yes, we do.

The Question of Motivation

[47:24] Okay, so then the question is, why did he do it?
And the answer that your mother wanted more money is not really an answer.

[47:34] Okay.

[47:35] Do you know why?

[47:37] Because we had money.

[47:39] No.
Well, just because your wife wants something, doesn't mean you do it.

[47:51] Yes, now I understand.

[47:52] Just because your husband wants something, doesn't mean you do it.
Your wife says, I want you to travel overseas so that I can get a really big house.
As a husband, what can you say?

[48:07] We don't need to get a house.

The Trade-off for Material Gain

[48:10] Well um no you just say no like you don't have to give a reason just like no i'm not i'm not gonna leave my kids and i'm not gonna leave my family so that we get a bigger house i'd rather have a small house a smaller house with a father than a bigger house with no father my children need a father growing up you need a husband and obviously you wouldn't want to sell me, for a bigger house right trade me in because basically she traded in your father and her her husband for a bigger house, right?

[48:40] Yes. Yes.

[48:41] Okay, so when a woman says, in this case, it's like if the man says, I want to have an open marriage, and the woman says, well, we had an open marriage because my husband said so, it's like, that's not an answer.
Right? If your mother says, I want more money, the father can say, well, that's nice.
I'd like to be a foot taller, and I would like to have all my hair back.
Let, you know, as long as we're talking about wishings, yeah, let's talk about it. You know, I'd love to have a horse made of gold that could fly. That would be fantastic. Wouldn't that be cool?
I'd love to be able to fly my, I'd love, you know, it'd be great to breathe underwater that, you know, now tell me more about the things that you would love.
right but the idea that the woman that your wife says well i want more money and you're like okay, like that's ridiculous right this.

[49:32] Is exactly what's happening right now.

[49:34] Actually of course we're talking about you and your wife but but like i i don't what the woman says she wants something that's nice it's it's nice information it's great to hear, i want to remodel the kitchen yeah fantastic i'd love to i'd love to build a home gym too too.
Wouldn't that be nice? I'd love to build a squash court in the basement.
We'd have to dig a little, but wouldn't it be cool to have a squash court in the basement? Tell me what else you like.
That's great. I mean, there's nothing wrong with hopes and dreams, and I'd like, and I want.
What I don't, what I'm trying to sort of figure out here is how the fuck your father, goes to the other side of the world because your mother wants more money.

Questioning the Father's Enslavement

[50:19] That's what, like, that's what I'm trying to figure out.
Like, why wouldn't he say, oh, it's great. Yeah, if you want more money, I guess you could get a job or play the lottery or whatever it is.
But, you know, we decided to have children. So, obviously, I have to be here for the children.
So, obviously, I'm not going to go to America to make money like that.
We chose to have children and my responsibility is to the kids.
Like, I can't quite figure out why your mother's wish becomes your father's enslavement.
That's what I can't figure it out.

[50:49] Uh...
I don't know either. I don't know, but...

[51:12] Are you still trying this one? Are you still trying the I don't know card?
You know, you keep playing that card. I keep projecting it, and it turns out you know. So we can keep playing this game if you want to, but it's kind of pointless.

[51:22] Okay. Stefan, I listened to a couple of your shows, and whoever's going to listen to this, it's going to have to laugh.
I keep saying that, but can you give me a hint? Or what's going on?
I don't fucking know. Seriously, wherever... It's buried so deep.
I don't know, seriously.
I don't want to waste your time. I don't know.

Understanding the Mechanics

[51:46] Okay, I mean, I can tell you the mechanics of how it happens if you want.
So, the mechanics of how it happens is actually quite simple.
It's very sad, but it's quite simple.
So, the mechanics of how it happens goes like this.
Your mother says, we don't have enough money. Your father says, I mean, you know, we've got a reasonable house.
We've got an old car. I want children to serve a bigger house.
I want a bigger house, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, right?
And he's like, well, no, I mean, I don't want to work that much more.
I certainly don't want to leave.
And she's like, well, if you went to America, you could make a lot of money.
And it's like, well, yeah, but we chose to have children. So anyway, it starts off like this.
And then if the woman is a complete monster, right, in my view, if the woman is a complete monster, what she does is she makes living with her so unbearable that he prefers to go to America.

[52:37] Okay okay this is exactly what's happening in my relationship oh.

[52:42] Yeah no let's let's stay with your parents right because that's the genesis of this right so your mother is just continually discontented she withholds affection she continues to nag at him she continues to say how well everyone else is doing she continues to humiliate him by talking about how uh how much money everyone else's husband makes what a loser he is and eventually he's like well i i can't stand living I'm living at home.
I don't have a sex life. I don't have any affection with my wife.
And I'm constantly humiliated. I would rather be in America, not because I want to make more money, but just because I can't stand living with my wife because she's continually nagging me for more money.
So fuck it, I'm out. I'm tapping out.
I'll go and get you the money because it's unbearable to live with you if I don't.

[53:26] Okay so this is what my mother did i'm i'm pretty sure she can do it, you're expecting something else from me.

[53:42] Well i mean i'm not sure i mean again i assume your parents kept their relationship pretty private so we can't get anything for sure in this right Which is fine, I just wanted to know Uh.

[54:03] It was private, but I think it happened like that. She was just...

[54:07] Well, is your mother an egg?

[54:11] Actually, not as big as I think, but I'm probably conditioned to not see it.

[54:17] Okay.

Analyzing the Impact of External Influences

[54:19] Because my girlfriend is a giant egg, because I heard so on...

[54:25] Well, then I would assume that you were conditioned to that by your mother.
Now, either she nagged you directly, or she nagged your sister, or she nagged your father or there's something, right? Something that conditioned you to this, right?

[54:38] Yes. Right.

[54:39] So then what happens is you're, sorry, you were going to say?

[54:43] No, nothing.

[54:43] All right. So then what happens is your father goes to America for two reasons.
One, to get away from the fucking nagging. And two, because he feels absolutely unloved.
Now, do you know why he feels unloved?

[55:00] Because she wants money not him that's.

[55:03] Right right she's like you're you're you're a piece of livestock for me you're a workhorse you you go get just just give me the money she's like the mafia like just give me the fucking money or i'll make your life hell it's really a kind of a blackmail extortion really like i'll make your life hell just give me the fucking money like She's like a collector for the mafia, right?
It's literally... I'll break fingers until I get the money. Sorry, go ahead.

[55:32] Every single friend of my girlfriend is like that. Fuck.

[55:37] What do you mean?

[55:40] Their husband work themselves fucking day and night, and they have nice money and shitty relationships.

[55:48] Well, like your uncle who died, right? He worked himself perhaps to death.

Uncovering Hidden Motives

[55:54] And then she gets insurance, right?

[55:57] No, she inherited business and sold it.

[55:59] Ah, so she sold the business, right? Ah, yes. Ah, yes.
Female entrepreneurs means marrying a male entrepreneur and working him to death often. So, anyway.
Yes. Okay, so the women don't view the husbands as love objects.
They don't view the husbands as someone to love.
They view the husbands as the provider of resources. Thanks for watching!

[56:26] Yes, I understand that. But I didn't know it was that deep.

[56:30] What do you mean, that deep?

[56:33] I just didn't understand it worked like that to this extent with my parents.
I never look at it this way.

[56:44] Well, the clear evidence is that your father was gone 10 or 11 months a year, right?

[56:50] Yes.

[56:51] Okay. Okay, so clearly, since the money wasn't absolutely necessary, it wasn't like there was no way he could work in your home country.
And it's like, I could understand that if this was some desperate situation, right?
I don't know, like the collapse of the Soviet Union, some desperate situation where the only way for the family to survive.

[57:09] No, it wasn't desperate.

[57:09] Yeah, okay, no, I get that. I'm just saying that this wasn't that situation.

The Husband as a Provider

[57:14] So the husband is not loved. the husband is someone that like you ever have a piece of electronics and it doesn't work and you just give it a thump hopefully to settle the chips or something like like something just give it a thump yes yeah yeah like i was i was playing paintball not too long ago and if the paintball isn't shooting you've got to shake it to settle the balls and then you get back to shooting the paintball right so so your husband is just like he's he's a machine that produces money, and if it doesn't produce money you just thump it till it does like you just apply negative pressure to it until it does right, Stefan Stefan yeah I.

[57:55] Gonna have to pick up my children in 25 minutes I just want to let you know.

[58:00] Okay we'll we'll we'll do the the last bit of the sprint okay so what's the solution to this what what could your father have done to deal with this.

[58:16] I don't know, but it's probably what I'm trying to do with my girlfriend.

[58:21] Well, with regards to you, I don't know, but that's why I asked if your parents were religious.
So what I would say, if I were a Christian and I were in this sort of situation, I would say, well, honey, I'm not going to go and get more money.
Do you know why? Because I don't want you going to hell.
Because you're going to go to hell. choosing money over what's best for your children choosing to work me in a foreign country choosing money over me that's not what the vows were i love honor and obey you not i love honor and obey money so i'm not going to have you break your vows this.

[59:00] Is funny because my girlfriend is dodging so bad badly in marriage with me but whatever i'm sorry just continue this is just gold what you're saying.

[59:11] Yeah so you say no we we have marriage vows that we we love each other that's the deal that's the basis of the marriage so i'm not going to let you harm yourself be a slave to satan and go to hell for eternity by choosing money over virtue you know because that's that's what satan offered jesus in the desert he said follow me obey me and i'll give you the whole world all the material things in the world right so you know you're tempted by Satan, and look, I sympathize with that.
We're all tempted by Satan. Every now and then I'll look at another woman in lust, and I'm like, well, that's a sin, and I won't do anything about it, and I'll try to work to control the thoughts, and so on, right?
So listen, honey, I love you, and I care for you, and I want to keep you being virtuous.
And look, you've just, I understand it, I sympathize.
You've fallen into temptation. You've fallen into pursuing material status.

[1:00:05] Over actual virtue. You're choosing stuff over love, and you're choosing what is selfishly good for you over what is objectively best for your children.
And that's, you know, again, sympathies, and I understand that, and, you know, we all get tempted, and we all got to shake it off and say, oh, you know, that's a bad idea, right?
So, no, like, of course not. Like, of course not.
And this is the basis of our vows, your vow to God, your vow to save your soul, your vow to me as your husband.
I can't do this. I can't enable your sin because I love you and I'm not going to let you go to hell.
And then I go to hell by abandoning my children, who we chose to have.
So no, of course I'm not going to the States. We've got to find some other solution.
Now, then she might escalate, obviously, right?

[1:00:58] Of course, yeah.

[1:01:00] She might escalate, and And then you say, well, you can say anything, right?
What I would say, not that I can imagine being, but I would say, okay, well, if you're going to escalate, if you're going to continue to nag me because I'm not giving you money, then you're an evil woman.

[1:01:15] Like you're trying to train me like a slave, like a dog, like a farm animal to give you what you want.

The Ultimatum

[1:01:22] I can't have that in front of my children. So I'm afraid that we're going to have to get a divorce if you continue this. And not only are we going to get a divorce, we're going to get a divorce and I'm not going to hide anything from the children.
Like I'm going to tell the children why we got a divorce because your mother wanted me to leave your lives in order to send her money to not be a father.
And listen, I mean, my responsibility is not primarily to my wife.
It's to my children. Right.
I mean, this is true, right? Because the children are not there by choice.
Your wife is there by choice, right? So you'd say, look, I'm going to have to divorce you if you continue to make my life hell because I'm not giving you money.
Like, that's a shake. This is a mafia tactic, right? I'm going to threaten to burn down your store if you don't give me money.
So I will end up having to divorce you, and I'm going to have to tell the children exactly why we're getting divorced.
You know, because mommy wanted money and wanted me to leave you.
like mommy wanted to be paid for me not being in your lives and as kids i love you too much to let that happen i i can't break my relationship with you i can't not be a father because i chose to be a father and if your mother wants me to go and make money rather than be a father i would choose.

[1:02:36] You as my children over money and over appeasing my obviously fallen into sin wife like and i'll just be perfectly honest with why that's all happening and if you want to go down that road We can go down that road. I'd rather you wouldn't.
I'd rather you sort of wake up.
But my responsibility is to my children, and I'm not going to lie to them about why we're getting divorced.
We're getting divorced because you keep nagging me for more money and want me to leave my children, which I'm not going to do.
We can go down that road if you want, but it's going to be pretty rough for you, to put it mildly. And I'm also going to tell, you know, everyone, everyone who says, oh, why are you getting divorced?
I say, oh, well, because she keeps nagging me for more money and I, I don't want to abandon my children.

The Foundation of Marriage

[1:03:12] So, um, I can't do that because that's one of the worst sins known to man.
And I will imperil my soul and my virtue and my future in that way.
So, sorry, go ahead. That's sort of roughly what I would say.

[1:03:24] I have nothing to say i never uh i i uh i never got this connection like it just it resonates with my parents and resonates with my current relationship like better than i well.

[1:03:44] Your father your father was a slave to female vanity and female greed and he never stood up for himself and that's that's it's bad enough that he never stood up for himself but he didn't stand up for his children which is even worse i mean infinitely worse right it's one thing to not stand up for yourself it's another thing for not to not stand up for your children even if your father was like oh fine i'll just go to america and and make money and send it back if he was just married okay that's that's a shitty choice and it's a terrible marriage but at least it's just two individuals but once you have kids you have to be there for your kids like when you have kids you have to be there for your kids.
You can't just abandon your kids to appease your wife. Like, that's ridiculous.
That's not a marriage. I don't know what that is.
So, you're in a situation where you are trying to, well, for 12 years, I assume, you've been appeasing your girlfriend, and if she gets upset, you're like, okay, what do I need to do to make things better, right?

[1:04:42] Well, not anymore, because for the last two, three years, she's just escalating, escalating, escalating, and to the point, like, she even doesn't want to be in proximity of me, because she admitted it.
I don't want to be that bad for you, but she's like really nasty.

[1:04:59] Oh, she says she's like poison for you or toxic for you, and she wants to spare you that?

[1:05:05] Yes, this is exactly what she's saying.

[1:05:08] Okay, and sorry, how old are your kids?

[1:05:12] Five and nine.

[1:05:14] Right, well, the nine-year-old might be old enough. I mean, you don't want to bring kids into your parents' troubles, of course, right?
But if the relationship is really, really falling apart, then you might have to sit down with the kids and say, say, well, you know, your mother needs to tell you what she told me, that she considers herself very toxic and very dangerous.

[1:05:35] She plays with children and she tries to pull them on her side.
And they're asking me really questions like, who's really bad?
You are bad or mommy's bad. Whose fault it is?
Because it cannot be everybody's fault.

[1:05:54] And what is it that the children, I assume this is the older child, maybe it's both, but what is it that the children are observing that they're sitting you down to try and sort out?
What are they trying to process or understand? What behaviors are they seeing?

Walking on Eggshells

[1:06:08] They try to appease mother because she's getting angry and they are finding, we are all walking on eggshells a lot.

[1:06:17] Oh, because of your wife's temper?

[1:06:19] Exactly, yeah.

[1:06:21] And has she had a health checkup? Is she on SSRIs, or is she on antidepressants, or is she on any sort of brain-altering medication?

[1:06:30] No, but I have to add something.
She was working in something like a homeless shelter when they were dealing with a lot of alcoholics.
And she met a lot of psychologists there, a couple. They became friends with her.
and she says she called them from time to time and they talk about her problems quote unquote not our relationship but her problems, and some of the temper in last couple years it's mellowed down but like very little so something happened right that's it that's it does she does she.

[1:07:11] Admit that she has a problem with her temper and she shouldn't be displaying it I mean at all but certainly not in front of the children.

[1:07:18] Absolutely, and she says this is our fault.
or my fault because wherever so she.

[1:07:26] Doesn't admit that she has a problem with temper she just blames you right absolutely okay so she doesn't admit that she has a problem with temper she says what you keep provoking me so inevitably i'm gonna blow up yes.

[1:07:37] I'm provoking her it's provoking her everybody's provoking her except last this last uh hiccup where everybody in in the in the family knows she was either cheating on me or organizing cheating for her friend ex-boyfriend.

[1:07:54] And since she's found that out I assume has her temper escalated and now you're the cause of her problems with her family?
Yes Okay so she doesn't take any self-ownership right? She just blames other people No she doesn't. I.

[1:08:08] Didn't want to say that I just wanted to get to this.

[1:08:11] Okay so she can't be fixed, I mean if somebody's not willing to take any responsibility for their behavior I don't see how they can possibly change is that fair to say yes.

[1:08:24] I wanted to hear from you to be honest.

Lack of Self-Ownership

[1:08:26] No listen I I can't change the weather so I'm you can't blame me for the weather right and and if I can't change myself you can't blame me for anything that happens right that's just that's the equation right so so if she's not willing to take any responsibility and if the results of years of therapy or whatever these conversations with these psychologists has been that she still blames you for telling the truth about her behavior to her parents she's she doesn't say well i guess i shouldn't have done that she says the only problem with me doing that is my parents found out and that you told them right is that her perspective yes that's.

[1:09:00] Her perspective and that blows blow blow my mind like.

[1:09:04] And she's in her 40s right 43.

[1:09:08] She's one year older she's 44 for.

[1:09:10] Okay so she's been an adult for almost 30 years yes and she's never grown up because adults what is what is adult we take responsibility for our own choices that's that's being an adult right yes.

[1:09:24] I i i know that i just didn't want to present her like that just to cover for me yeah.

[1:09:33] So i mean again i i don't know what you should do obviously but if you have someone who won't take self-ownership then they can't they can't make decisions based on morality stefan.

[1:09:45] Stefan lately lately into my head are popping up those thoughts like i i even keep meeting the girls i rejected some time ago maybe like into my head popping up those thoughts.
I should start a new family and my kids are going to be with me in one, two, three, four years and they're going to be, arriving at adulthood better than if I stayed.

[1:10:16] Wait, so, sorry, your solution to this is to do what your father did and abandon your family?

[1:10:23] No, it's not. I'm saying I don't know what to do.

[1:10:28] Okay, so hang on. So I don't know what you should do either, but in my opinion, people who don't have any self-ownership will only respond to pressure.
They will respond to bribery or pressure.
So that's all. So if, let's say, she really wants to stay married to you, if you say, listen, the condition of us being married is you have to deal with your temper, like you have to take ownership for your temper.
Now, she won't want to do that, but maybe she'll go through the first time taking self-ownership and realize that it is actually a better way to live, and maybe that'll be a big change. It could happen, I guess.
But you have no leverage as far as I understand it at the moment, right? Right. I mean, because she's not responding to morals.
She's not responding to ideals.
She's not responding to the fact that her children are saying what's wrong with the marriage.

Seeking Change Through Pressure

[1:11:14] She's just blaming you. And right. So so she's not responding to anything positive, which means maybe she'll respond to something that's more negative or more pressured and say, look, the marriage can't continue like this. Things are going to have to change.
And if if we do get a divorce, let me finish, because I know you've got to go.
Right. You came here for my advice. Is that fair?

[1:11:33] Yes. OK. Okay.

[1:11:35] So then you say, look, and if we do get divorced, which I really don't want to do, I would much rather work things out for the sake of the kids, but I can't expose my children to this level of dysfunction. Like I can't.
Because it's not about you and it's not about me. It's about what's best for the kids. And what's happening right now is not what's best for the kids.
If we can't fix it, we need to not harm the children in this kind of way.
And maybe that will will be a wake-up call. Maybe that will sort something out.
And I don't know whether this is the right or wrong thing to do.
I'm just giving you some possibilities.
The other thing to do is to say, look, I made my bed. I've got to lie in it.
I chose a woman with a bad childhood. I chose a woman who was a cheater.
I chose a woman who's clearly dysfunctional. I chose to stay with her.
I chose to, I guess you had children three years into the relationship and then And then later on, right, a child, first child, nine, second child, five.
So you had a child three years into the relationship, and then you had a child seven years or something like that.
And so you chose to have this relationship and you chose to have children and she's not going to change. So rather than get frustrated, just say, well, I have to work with who she is and not have the expectation of change.

[1:12:53] But I think you have to say the only variable that you can alter in this situation is yourself.
Whether you escalate or whether you accept, I don't know.
But I think hoping that she's going to change is not... The best predictor of future behavior is past behavior.
Like, by far, the best predictors. How she's going to be tomorrow is how she was yesterday.
And this is particularly true for people who don't take responsibility for their own choices and actions. People who blame don't change.
They don't. They don't change, because they don't need to change, because nothing's ever their fault. Nothing's ever their responsibility.
So she's not going to change. You either need to find a way to shock her into some kind of possible change, or accept.
And by shock, I just mean change the variables in what you're doing.
I don't mean anything aggressive, of course, but change the variables in what you're doing.
But, or accept a situation as, well, you walked into this eyes open, and, you know, with all sympathy to your childhood, you know, you weren't a kid when you got involved in this, right?

Acceptance and Moving Forward

[1:13:57] If you're in your early 40s, and so you were in your 30s when this relationship started, so you weren't a kid and, you know, she was pretty honest about the fact that she's a cheater and so you chose this and now for the sake of your kids, you're going to just have to accept the way things are until your kids get older.
her but yeah I certainly wouldn't put put any any hope of change going forward.

[1:14:23] I mean coming from her I don't mean there's nothing you can change in your life but but the idea that she's going to wake up tomorrow and start taking responsibility seems highly unlikely sorry go ahead I.

[1:14:32] Uh I put some pressure uh I disconnected our finances uh some time ago uh and, Actually, it didn't change a lot, to be honest. Yeah.

[1:14:47] Right. And also, my strong suggestion would be, no matter what you do, talk to a lawyer.

[1:14:57] Actually, I did.

[1:14:58] Okay, good, good. So you've got some information about that.
I mean, I think in general, whenever touching on legal matters, talking to a lawyer is very important.
So you need to know what your options are and your possibilities.
And listen, I sympathize with the situation. I sympathize most with the kids of course because you guys were both adults when you got into this kind of mess I sympathize most with the kids but I certainly do sympathize for how your father kind of cripples your sense of masculinity in this right to to just be pushed around by a woman is really terrible I mean to be pushed around by a man is equally terrible but at least society recognizes that as bad the being pushed around by a woman and sacrificing your children on the altar of a woman's stupid material vanity is is an absolute betrayal of your duties as a husband and a father, and this kind of appeasing women's demonic egos by throwing money at them is really, really terrible.
And obviously, men do terrible things as well, but we happen to be talking about women in this case.

Sacrificing for Materialism

[1:15:53] And the terrible thing that your father did was to appease your mother and sacrifice his children to this Medusa of materialism.
It's just, it's really, really terrible, so I'm really sorry for everyone involved here.

[1:16:08] Thank you, Stefan.

[1:16:10] You gotta go right you gotta get your kids if we have a bit more time that's fine I just want to check I.

[1:16:16] Have like 7-8 more minutes to be honest and then I have to go.

[1:16:19] Alright I mean I'm sorry to have rushed this stuff but you know you gotta get your kids is there anything that you wanted to mention as we close things down.

[1:16:29] Actually no you you blow my mind more than I thought you will.

[1:16:33] Even after listening.

[1:16:34] To like freaking 100 call-in shows to be honest.

[1:16:39] Well that's That's why I keep doing them, because I'm always hoping to continue to add value.

Setting a Strong Example

[1:16:43] And your kids, both your son and your daughter or whatever their mix is, your kids are really going to need to see you not get pushed around.
that that's really important because otherwise it's just going to repeat right there's all this cycle is just going to repeat and that's uh that's a real shame yes.

[1:17:00] This i understood understood some time ago that's why like i think our situation is just worsening and worsens because she just puts more pressure now i understand why more right right.

[1:17:15] And appeasement appeasement feeds bullying right and whatever you feed yes stronger right and but i also understand I mean, really, I assume that you haven't seen around you, you haven't seen strong equality and negotiation in relationships.

[1:17:30] Actually, I didn't. I fucking didn't. And now I get it. Like, I never saw it. I never fucking saw it. Yeah. Yeah.

[1:17:37] And that's a great shame, but that's the thing, right?
I didn't see a really deep, I didn't see a deep self-knowledge philosophy guy around, so you have to become it.
And so if you can't see this kind of stuff, you have to become it.
You have to provide what you were denied, and really that's the only way that things progress.

Breaking the Cycle of Dysfunction

[1:17:52] So I really, really admire you for exploring these issues and, you know, your willingness to step into the fire and break the cycle of dysfunction.
it's amazing and wonderful and heroic and you should be enormously proud of that in my opinion to.

[1:18:08] Be honest I did it so whatever I do my children don't have to call you.

[1:18:17] Well except to say thanks which would be fun too.

[1:18:19] Well we'll see maybe they we'll see how it goes.

[1:18:24] Alright well listen go get your kids if there's anything else I can do I know we had a bit of a rushed chat here which is fine but if there's anything that strikes you just shoot me another note and i'm sure we can reschedule something else and i promise yeah i.

[1:18:38] Promise i will uh uh get back to you just to give you update because you said like one person in 50 gives you any feedback so i.

[1:18:48] Certainly do appreciate the feedback and uh i really really appreciate the conversation thanks so much brother and take care thank.

[1:18:54] You stephanie one one more time thank you bye.

[1:18:56] You're welcome.

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