[0:01] Well, good afternoon, it is the 14th of, oh my gosh, is it really?
It can't be 11, 11 days until Christmas.
Freedomain.com slash donate, 11 days until Christmas? Well that's just plain insane.
I mean, is there anything that, that you would like to say to some gorgeous philosopher?
Freedomain.com slash donate. Hello. So, yeah, so, hi there, and excellent, excellent, excellent, so it looks like we're working.
That's good here. I'm just going to go and check over on a couple of other platforms.
[0:45] If you have questions, of course, you want to ask, comment, I'm perfectly thrilled if you would like to do that.
Oh, yes. So I can throw a little chat message in here and what we're doing, of course, uh, what's going to happen down the road is going to be able to take calls on the live stream, isn't that cool?
Got to be able to take calls on the live stream, live shaving on the live stream. There we go.
What's the philosophy of sarcasm? That's if you'd like to know, where does it come from? Is it ever noble?
Hmm, that is a great question.
That is a great, great question. You blow my mind, man.
Blow my mind. It created a new stream. I'll blast out the new link.
Thanks. We're just testing it.
I am just going to, sorry, just before I get to philosophy of sarcasm, which is a truly great question, I'm just going to check one other thing. over here.
[1:52] I tried to do DLive but things got a little freaky there.
Things got a little freaky there. They wanted me to install something then I couldn't really seem to get it going so, oh yes, looks like we are, looks like we are live there as well.
Very nice. Alright, so we're live on Rumble, we're live everywhere.
Everywhere but where we used to be. That's alright, that's alright.
It's all right, mama, anywhere you choose. All right The philosophy of sarcasm. Let me just get here.
Oh, look it took my chat, too. All right Hit me with a why if you know sarcastic people, I'm just curious how quickly this all comes back.
Hit me with a why if you know sarcastic people.
While I'm waiting for that, you do, yeah, you know sarcastic people?
[2:58] I wrote, gosh, I wrote a whole section about sarcastic people in my novel The God of Atheists, They called it, they did this thing called entertainment. Entertainment.
Entertainment is when you take something that's entertaining and you turn it into its opposite.
So entertainment is you go to karaoke and purposefully do really, really bad.
You purposefully do really, really bad songs. Like you choose the worst songs.
There was a song by some guy.
[3:39] Patrick Hernandez, do I have that in my head? Born to be alive.
And it had this really, whoosh sound in the middle, and a friend of mine just loved that song because he said it was just so cheesy, he loved it because it was so cheesy.
It's elevating the mediocre, it's elevating the trashy, and it is a way of turning that which is entertaining into the opposite of entertainment.
These are the people who instead of going and trying to do some decent dance moves go up and just do bad dance moves or don't dance at all.
They just can't take anything seriously. They can't take a direct approach to anything and enjoy it.
It's always got to go through this filter of personal, I don't know, would you say personal disgust or it's got to go through this filter of do I approve, do I disapprove, is it worthy, is it not worthy and so on.
Let me just read a little bit and then we'll get into it because yeah I thought about this for oh quite some time.
You can go to freedomain.com slash books for more on this.
[4:47] Let me just see here, grab this, open it up, the newest club is opening up.
Do I have something that can, oh yes, look at that, I do have something, God of Atheists, alright.
[5:10] Well that's pretty much the opposite of readability. I have black text on black text. Alright, hang on a sec here.
Okay, close that.
[5:27] Where are my options here? Why are you giving me black text on a black background? Why? Just why?
And e-book reader. Oh man, don't even get... Oh man, did I ever have some excitement with Bluetooth the other day.
Hey, I just want to connect a wedge mouse to my tablet. Can't get the wedge mouse to start flashing to attach it.
Well, first of all, it was attached to the tablet previously, a notebook, a laptop.
It was attached to the laptop previously, wouldn't reattach, couldn't get it to flash. eventually I finally got it to flash after taking the battery out three times, got it to flash but then the notebook wouldn't find anything in terms of searching.
Bluetooth is one of the biggest and foulest lies known to man and I just will forever say, curse you Bluetooth for wasting my life and it's worse than not having a solution, right?
It's worse than not having a solution because if you don't have a solution, well, you don't try and create a solution, right?
You don't try and create a solution, but if you think there's a solution, then of course you might try and actually use the solution, which wastes a huge amount of time.
Yeah, I don't know what the story is with Bluetooth. Why is it that sometimes in my car, it just won't attach and I have to actually say, connect.
[6:44] My daughter's phone connects, no problem. My phone simply won't connect and then I can't do it, right, because it's dangerous, right? So, and it says, well, you know, we will let you connect, but you have to stop your car.
Right, you have to stop your car, and then, and then, just maybe, just maybe, I will let you connect your phone.
It's all a complete lie and useless. All right, I'm just going to have to go and get the actual book, because this is another thing. All right.
[7:24] Entertainment is a staple of the cynical set, who love to go to ten-pin bowling and make home recordings of country and western songs, and have parties with themes like 70s one-hit wonder bands, or famous TV sitcom sidekicks, or dinner parties called Tastes Like Chicken, where all the dishes, chicken being banned, must follow that rule.
They love nothing more than to hear that an obscure 60s game show host has been arrested in some compromising situation.
They wish they could rent videos of The Gong Show or get the Bay City rollers to reunite for an irony tour and laugh that one of the lads was caught molesting children.
They loved scorning rich boys with eyebrow rings, yeah, man, I'm rebelling against a system which pays my parents a quarter mil a year.
To truly qualify as entertainment, an activity must have three or more of the following characteristics.
One, uneducated people must take it seriously. Two, it must involve funny clothing or that those who take it seriously wear funny clothing.
Three, it must be impossible to meet anyone your own age there.
Four, no fashionable drinks. Five, it must be dated, it must be cheap.
Six, and dated. Seven, or dying out. Eight, and it must be anti intellectual.
[8:51] Al was a music producer, and his son Ian was very much into entertainment.
To the point where Al found him raiding the back of the closet for flared pants and suit jackets with lapels wide enough that with a good updraft they could have served as an adequate hang glider.
Ian's group of friends were pretty, bitchy, and pursued affairs with each other with a grim lack of purpose, avoiding attachments, considering them pure sentimentality.
They never spoke of morals, or love, or truth, or beauty.
If they didn't like an argument, they would just say, I just can't buy it.
As if belief were a mindless surrender to effective advertising.
They decorated their rooms with B movie posters and lava lamps and record sleeves from disco albums.
They went out of their way to procure eight track players. They dared each other with indifference.
They loved the catcher in the rye, then disparaged their own attachment saying, we all wanted to be Holden Caulfield until we realized we all wanted to be Holden Caulfield.
[10:02] Ian was not the founder of the group, but joined it quite early.
The leader, the most caustic acid test, was Dave's son and Sarah's brother, Justin Bugle.
Justin had first opened their eyes to the empty, bottomless pleasures of entertainment.
Entertainment was a staple of their social life, and they had pursued it for many a moon, but still felt they had further to go.
The evening of southern trucking songs from the 1950s was close, but still...
One evening, Ian asked several of his friends to come by. He termed it Japanese Elvis impersonator night, and they all came in sequins and black wigs and spoke in outrageous accents.
[10:46] Todd, Gerald, Chris, and the token female Janine.
Janine was a former tomboy on the verge of outpacing her fading testosterone.
She liked being the center of attention.
Anyway, so I wrote about this sort of lazy, trashy, bad, entertainment stuff, I guess, for quite a while.
For quite a while. And this I wrote, I don't know, like 25 years ago. Something like that.
So, the philosophy of sarcasm. Let me just get your questions.
Bluetooth was a Scottish Lord, maybe he had issues connecting with a British resident, maybe. Alright, sarcasm.
[11:33] I mean, it is termed the lowest form of wit.
[11:43] So, sarcasm has two primary purposes. One is to puncture vanity.
The other is to puncture beauty.
So, puncturing vanity is when you can't confront someone directly.
If the king is vain, you can't confront him directly because he's got too much power.
And so, what you do is you make sarcastic comments so that you can express your dissatisfaction with the vanity of the king without getting, say, beheaded.
A sarcasm is the slave's condemnation. It's a slave's criticism.
If you don't have any power and you can't directly impact someone's.
[12:28] Status, then you are sarcastic. So bosses are rarely sarcastic to their employees, but employees are often sarcastic about their bosses.
Right? So in the break room, people will roll their eyes.
Oh, did you see what that guy was wearing today? Or, you know, he thinks he's so knowledgeable, but he keeps getting basic terms wrong.
So the employees will get together and be sarcastic or roll their eyes about their boss. But bosses don't get together and are sarcastic about their employees.
Why? Because bosses can fire their employees.
So they have power in the situation. So sarcasm is a form of registering, uh, criticism in a, an avoidant and oblique and defendable manner, if that makes sense, right?
[13:15] So, yeah, he's right behind me. So, when you're being sarcastic or, you know, there's some you've seen this scene in a thousand movies and sitcoms where some guy's imitating the boss and it's like the boss comes up behind him, he's like, he's right behind me, isn't he? Right? So, that's, That's an important thing to understand. Sarcasm is a confession of frustration and weakness.
If you're frustrated with an employer and your boss, you just fire the employee.
Don't have to get that sarcastic, but if you're frustrated at a situation and you can't affect it in any positive or foundational way, then you become sarcastic.
It's a way of signaling your impotence. It's a way of signaling your helplessness.
Hit me with a Y if this argument, I don't want to overdo it, but I don't want to underdo it.
Hit me with a Y if this makes sense so far.
[14:15] Are we there so far? All right, and this probably accords with your...
So that's the low form of sarcasm.
It's frustration and helplessness that you need to develop to pass yourself in an oblique way.
And sarcasm is very rarely applied to the person you're being sarcastic about.
So it's a way of denigrating somebody else on the side without actually having to have any moral criticisms.
Ah, this explains my younger brother's behavior. I really felt in power over him, but it makes sense.
Some Rose says sarcasm seems to be a test of developing relationships too, like if you can sarcastically jab at each other, that is a certain level of trust achieved.
Hmm, I don't know about that. Sarcastically jab at each other.
Like the old trope that men get together, men bond over fake compliments, sorry, men bond over fake insults and women bond over fake compliments.
Maybe, maybe, maybe. All right, so that is relatively, it's relatively harmless but unfortunately it does trap you in that role.
The much worse form of sarcasm and actually very dangerous and toxic form of sarcasm is the absolute clawing down of anything...
[15:41] Sorry, I just got a... not seeing that the stream has started.
Still the case. Sorry, just a moment here.
[15:53] Still the case. I did check it over on various platforms, and I just want to, sorry, just pause for just a second here.
But it looks like everyone can see it so far.
[16:19] Oh no, yeah, I know it's on.
So it started, okay.
Okay, yeah, if you tell me something's not working, if you can update me with the fact that it is working, that would be very helpful.
So, the other problem with sarcasm is when you say that everyone who aspires to something better is doing so for the most petty and ignomious reasons, right?
Anybody who's trying to do something better, who's trying to elevate themselves, who's trying to claw their way out, you get kind of sarcastic and you apply to every impulse towards improvement, the basis conceivable motives, right?
[17:12] And so, uh, if you are trying to improve yourself, you know, you just think you're so great, it's always for the most base conceivable motive.
So, if you get along with your boss, well, you're just a kiss-ass.
Uh, if you enjoy school, well, you're just an apple polisher, you're a teacher's pet, right?
If you are losing weight, uh, you're just, uh, um, a falling prey to the mainstream body image because you can't think for yourself, right?
So, so everybody who tries to improve is clawed down in the most foundational and horrifying ways.
I could be just alone in this. Maybe I, I just brought out the best in everyone around me when I really worked on self-improvement.
But hit me with a why, if you've tried to improve and people have tried to tear you down from that improvement, you've tried to get better friends.
You've tried to increase your education. You've tried to become more moral.
You've foresworn bad habits. You got off drink or drugs and people just, they just claw, try and claw you down.
And they say that the only motive you would ever have for improvement is because you have some horribly petty, stupid, ignomious motive.
[18:27] Right. So sarcasm is often how a class distinctions are maintained.
If you try to borrow out, like I've gone all over the class structure, up and down, up and down like the Assyrian Empire, I've gone all over the class structure and I know some very wealthy people, I've been middle class, I've been super poor, lower middle class, I've been through like the oscilloscope of the classes.
And so I have a fairly unique view, a lot of some people of course, a lot of people have, but I have a fairly unique view of how class structures are maintained.
Now sarcasm is one of the best ways to implant a bomb in the brain.
A self-improvement, self-sabotage, right? So if you grow up and everyone who tries to do better, everyone who tries to improve, right, is given the worst and basest and most horrible motives, then what happens is you internalize that, don't you?
[19:31] Isn't it very tempting to do so? Like you internalize that.
[19:37] And by internalizing that, you try to cut down your own ambitions.
So people who are doing badly in life, and there's some exceptions, but we're just going to talk in general terms.
So people who are doing badly in life are absolutely desperate for other people to also do badly.
They don't want to see people succeed, they don't want to see people get their way out of this.
They just very, very desperately don't want to see people succeed.
Now of course they can't generally say, well I just don't want people to succeed.
I just, I want people to succeed, they can't say that, because that would be too obvious, right?
So what they do is they say that success is failure, right?
That they, they short circuit your desire to succeed by saying success is failure.
So I remember many years ago, uh, being on a boardwalk with a very sarcastic, and cynical friend of mine named, not his real name is Bob.
And, uh, there was a guy who was trying to make a living, uh, selling, selling pens.
Now he was obviously had had some pretty rough times in his life, but he wasn't begging, he wasn't on drugs, he was trying to make a living selling pens. Right.
And this was out in, on the West coast of the United States.
[21:05] And the, the, the man was saying that the pen vendor was saying Hollywood pens for Hollywood people, Hollywood pens for Hollywood people.
And my friend was just kind of vicious about this. And he was just like, plastic pens for plastic people, plastic pens for plastic people.
And that is, oh, thank you for the tip. I appreciate that.
And he was, and you know, I mean, Hollywood pens for Hollywood people, the guys come up with a slogan. It's obviously working for him.
You know, it's nice to see people trying to sell something rather than beg and it didn't really register much but he was almost, it's funny, he was almost enraged by this.
[21:48] Almost enraged by this. I remember he's the same guy, he also had a joke, like these late night tv ads, like the ultimate sorter sorts like objects, you know, put sponges in it and it sorts them into sponges, put coins in it and it sorts it into coins, you know, and it was like not particularly.
[22:07] Funny, but this was just really compulsive, really compulsive.
We went down with a bunch of friends, I guess this is in my early twenties, we went down to Niagara Falls and we turned it into a sprint tour.
Like you had to complete the tour as much as humanly possible.
Like it was a sprinting tour.
And it was like, okay, so we can't enjoy anything. We're just kind of sprinting around and the joke is way too long.
Like it turned into like a two hour running joke, a running gag.
And it was just like, yeah.
So yeah, this is, uh, uh, this is rough.
[22:42] Uh, and, and so anybody who started to lift weights, anybody who started to try and get muscles, it wasn't like, well, I just want to explore how strong my body can be.
It was like, like how insecure do you have to be to need all those muscles?
You know, like, uh, basically anybody with large muscles is compensating for a small penis. Like you've seen all of that.
You can't want to work out because you want to explore how strong your body can be and enjoy that sort of strength and competence that comes from having a physically strong body. It's nothing to do with that.
It's compensating for a small peepee, you know, like it's whatever you're trying to do to improve, you know, it's just, it's just the worst thing.
If a woman loses weight, it's like, well, she's just losing weight because, you know, she wants to get a guy and she wouldn't want to rely on her personality, so she's got to look this way, right?
You just, whatever it is, you just cut it down, you cut it down, you're like a forest fire on all the prime oaks without any kind of regeneration afterwards.
[23:44] All right, let me get back to your comments. Hello, good morning, good morning, good morning.
Grabs at a bucket is tiring and it's often hidden in bad humor.
Yeah, that's right, that's right.
[23:56] Sometimes people take my growth as a rejection.
Sabotage but without the accusation. Yeah, nothing's direct, right? Yeah, almost all my friends and my family were like that.
I'm sorry for that, Dave.
Biblically, Isaac translated means laughter, named because his father laughed in joy, Ishmael and Hagar laughed in mockery.
Yeah, laughter in joy, laughter in mockery, right? I haven't been able to catch a live stream in a while, this is a nice treat.
I'm glad that it's good for you. It's good for me too.
That was where the same younger brother went when I started applying philosophy in my life, right?
Yeah, so when I first started pursuing reason, some of my friends were like, well, you got to be really crazy if you need this much, quote, rationality in your life, man, you should just embrace and accept your irrational side rather than trying to fence it and control it and bury it under this syllogism nonsense.
Like just learn to accept yourself, man, learn to accept yourself, you know, be zen, but go with the flow.
Any kind of improvement is self-rejection and a massive dissatisfaction and it's for the shallowest, the most petty possible reasons. Right?
[25:06] Peasant mentality is soaked in sarcasm. We're all in this together. Exhausting. Yes. Yes.
It becomes your lens, self-defeating. Who does he think he is?
Oh, you just think you're so much better than we are, right?
If they admit someone can get out, they expose that they gave up. Yes, that's right.
I once lived with a friend in Edmonton who was caught up with bad people.
I almost got shot. I cut into my chin.
I left the next day and she smashed a huge mirror on the floor in a fit, accusing me of thinking I was better than her. I wished her well and left.
Jared says, right, I was going through that in therapy yesterday.
I don't want to be a class away from my siblings.
So I might help them. I realized that if they accepted philosophy, I would have to get to know them like they were strangers.
Disappointed it wasn't selling wood pencils for horny people, right?
I grew up in New York City, government housing, I can tell you the behavior you're describing matches the people I grew up with there to a T.
It's soul-numbing, very draining, true.
A friend worked as an usher at Broadway and told me how those co-workers acted, some were great, others were disgraceful.
Now, so, I mean, so sarcasm has a lot to do with just dragging you down, putting, giving you an ironic view of yourself.
[26:24] And it's a way of externalizing yourself so that rather inspiring yourself, you judge yourself, right, rather than inspiring yourself.
So, when I first started working out, I just enjoyed it, I felt better, I had more energy, and I like the way I look when I'm fit, of course, right, and of course I'm married, which means I have a monopoly on my wife's romantic affections, which means that it's just a matter of love and respect and, and so on to be, be attractive, right?
To be, I don't want to become the DMV. Oh, I have a monopoly.
Therefore I can go to crap, right? And I want to be, Oh, I have a monopoly.
So I better have very, very high standards here because I'm asking for a monopoly. Right?
[27:09] So the two causes of improvement are self-criticism and inspiration.
So, I didn't like my energy, I didn't like looking a little tubby, I just didn't really like it.
You know, when you're sitting at the bathtub and you're making a little soft bubbly island with your belly, it's like, ooh, that does not seem ideal.
I mean, you've got to run somewhere and you're on time, but your ass is five minutes late. Well, you know. So there's some self-criticism and all, and that's fine.
And, but there's also some ideal, some inspiration. I'd love to be able to run a mile.
I'd love to have abs. I'd love to have more energy. I'd love to sleep better.
I'd love, whatever it is you're gonna do while you're exercising or whatever, right?
And so, if people want you to fail, right?
[28:04] If people want you to fail, how many years ago did you start working out?
It's been over 40 years. I started working out in my mid-teens and I took a break here or there for a variety of reasons, maybe six months or a year from time to time, but it's been pretty constant.
And I do about, probably about eight hours of exercise a week. So...
[28:25] The people who want you to fail will either try to remove your self-criticism, or they will try to remove your aspiration.
So, the people who are, you know, just, you go girl, everything's perfect about you, there's nothing wrong with you, they're trying to remove your self-criticism.
You can't change without a carrot and a stick, right?
You can't change. You can't change things without a carrot and a stick.
Something to aim towards and something you don't like. I didn't like anti-rationality.
It was making people insane. I didn't like it in me. I recoiled and rebelled against it.
I judged it very negatively and then I had an ideal called rational philosophy.
I fled the dysfunctional messy stuff, criticized it horribly in other people, or well, criticized it significantly in other people and in myself.
So that was the judgment, the negative judgment and aspiration.
Criticism and aspiration, that's how you change.
Criticism, I'm broke. I hate being broke. I'm gonna make some money.
So you got criticism. I hate being broke.
Aspiration. I want to make some money. I'm gonna become Not broke, right?
And so people who want to sabotage you Will do one of two things they will either try and destroy your aspiration through sarcasm and cynicism or they will try to Destroy your self-criticism.
[29:44] By saying oh, you know, hey, you know if you want to lose weight, I mean obviously that's up to you But I think you look fantastic.
And I think you should accept where you are. I think you should accept who you are.
Some people just have bigger frames and I think you're beautiful.
And they try to softly seduce you out of your self-criticism.
Right. By substituting the rewards of improvement.
By eliminating, like if you think you're fat and you lose weight, then you lose the criticism called I'm fat.
And what they want to do is they want to give you the reward of losing the criticism for being fat by actually losing weight and substitute, Oh, you can just get the rewards of losing weight without losing weight, right?
Which is like, you know, somebody wants to make a million dollars.
They're going to work very hard for that.
[30:31] But if you give them a million dollars, they'll stop working hard for it.
Cause they have the reward of the million dollars without the hard work.
So people will often try and seduce you. There's a very soft, very feminine kind of seduction.
Oh, you're fine. You're beautiful. It's important to accept yourself for who you are.
Don't fall prey to these idealized body standards. Those women are all anorexic and insane and that's not healthy and blah blah blah blah blah, right?
Yeah, why don't you make yourself the standard by eating this apple of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, right?
Right. So there's all that, right? There's all that.
Just self-acceptance. It's like, what are you talking about self-acceptance?
Ah, these people, it pisses me off. Oh, offerant!
Offerant. Offerant.
[31:23] I'm kind of going through that right now and I don't know what to make of it.
Last time I went to therapy, my therapist said that maybe I'm too concerned with seeing things as good or bad.
I've been back since, I haven't been back since because the whole point of living a philosophical life for me is to discern between good and bad and then do good and reject bad. Yeah, yeah.
I mean, it's like a nutritionist saying, well, maybe you're just too concerned with healthy and unhealthy foods. It's like, you know, that's the job, right? That's a nutritionist.
That soft undermining of self-criticism is rampant in lefty tech culture.
Yeah, it's a form of, it's a drug applicator. Because if you're fat and people tell you you're fine and beautiful and everything's perfect the way you are, they're seducing you into not losing weight and then you become addicted to them rather than pursuing self-improvement.
All right, so all these people, all these people, you know, you should just go with the flow, you should accept who you are.
[32:17] Don't be so don't be self-critical don't do this don't the other you know if those assholes were still in charge We'd all be sitting there in the caves eating frozen mammoth meat and dying of smallpox, right?
All those people who were like well, you don't want to be overly self-critical It's like you don't want to have a negative views of things.
You know just got a self-accept self-accept self-accept self-accept, right?
[32:39] So The guy who said I'm kind of pissed off that we keep trying to catch all this shit by hand And I think I'm going to make a spear.
No, man, don't make a spear. That's elitist.
That's just expressing your deep satisfaction with the beautiful hands that God gave you.
You know, you're fine the way you, you're a fine hunter the way you are. You don't need a spear.
It's not, you know, your penis size is fine. You don't need a spear.
You don't need to be discontented with who you are. Just accept who you are and roll with it.
And don't try and prop yourself up with artificial externalities.
That just shows wild insecurity, man. Just accept that you are who you want. You don't need a spear.
Why am I so hungry? We don't seem to have any food around here.
Well, maybe if people had spears or, well, okay, look, man, it is true that one of your children froze to death last night in the cave, you know, it was, it was unseasonably cold.
But this fire talk, like you keep talking about wanting to figure out how to make a fire, dude.
[33:48] You know, your frozen child is probably in a better place. Your son's skull is doing just fine.
You've just got to accept that this is part of nature's plan. It's God's will.
You don't need to fight against it so much. Just accept the temperature, man. Don't try and change everything. Don't try and improve everything.
Because when you improve things, you automatically say you're not good enough.
And who wants to go through life feeling deficient? I mean, that's just terrible.
[34:15] Yeah, why do you need a seven-foot spear? What are you compensating for?
Ugh.
Yeah, it reminds me of Rachel from the present. I just listened to that first chapter yesterday.
That's so good. I listened to The End of the Future and The Start of the Present, in a true time travel whiplash.
Those books are just fantastic, right?
[34:40] Well, they are. They're free and you should definitely... So all of these people who were like, you know, just accept and don't criticize.
Well, first of all, this, the funny thing is, right?
So the funny thing is that those people always talk about self acceptance and then have the most unbelievably venomous and vicious attacks on other people. Right.
Right. So the people who say you should just accept being overweight, it's not even overweight, you know, back at the time of the painter Ruben, you would be considered normal weight, there's just this weird skeletal day walker standard that's crept up now, you just accept, accept, accept, accept who you are, be who you are, don't fight who you are, let it flow, let it go, blah blah, bleh, all this, bleh, just dopamine drip bullshit, right?
They're exactly the same people who come up with the term with toxically fatphobic.
[35:35] What if I just don't like fat? Can I just go with that? Can I just roll with that? No, you're not allowed to do that.
You're a fat phobic, bigoted bastard.
Right? It's like, wait a minute. What happened to this whole, can I not just self-accept that I don't like obesity?
It's that's just who I am. I don't like it. And no, that's like, so this, this quote, tolerance is always, always conjoined with vicious, horrible intolerance.
And that's what makes it so, I mean, that's why it's such a lie.
It's absolutely such a lie.
[36:12] Ah, very, very sad. I think I'm dealing with this attitude at work now.
Lazy woman who doesn't want to work gives a bitchy attitude when I assign something in addition to what the main director assigns.
Pet Shop Boys or Depeche Mode.
Depeche Mode for dancing, Just Can't Get Enough was a great dance song when I was young and a club hound.
Pet Shop Boys, Always on My Mind, Go West.
Great songs. Alright. I think a lot of females are extremely afraid of men either due to direct experience or from what they've heard from others.
They want to be untargeted for attention without recognizing their demanding ways of demanding attention.
Well, women, feminists aren't afraid of men. Feminists are afraid of what their single mothers have said about men.
They're not afraid of men, they're afraid of what their single mothers say about men.
Because the single mothers stay single because they won't accept responsibility for their bad relationships, which means it's always and forever the man's fault.
Men are dangerous, well then men will impregnate you, and say they love you, and then betray you, and run away, and they're bastards, and it wasn't my fault, right? So, when men aren't present, you can make up a whole bunch of nonsense about men, and that tend to fit, right?
[37:31] Alright, but that's not the biggest way that people keep you in the trash classes.
And trash classes really doesn't have fundamentally anything to do with money.
Trash classes has to do with an avoidance of self-knowledge.
One of the things I've avoided with long-term overweight is disgust and how that challenges the parental alters.
[38:05] So, true, but having grown-up female men, even old men, target girls for unwanted attention frequently.
It's kind of gross. I'm grateful not all men are like that, but enough are.
Sorry, I don't quite understand. You're saying that grown-up female men even old men target girls for unwanted attention frequently So are you saying that when you're out with your husband men hit on you?
I don't I don't quite follow, That's that's fair, I mean I've never heard of that Like you go into a coffee shop with your husband.
You're standing in line with your husband You're out for dinner with your husband.
You're going for a walk with your husband and Men just come up and hit on you, That's very strange to me Oh, you're saying as a child, old men target girls for unwanted attention frequently.
Oh, so as a little girl, you were targeted by old pedophiles?
By old creeps? Is that right?
Sort of dirty old men in a raincoat cliché? And not saying a cliché like it's not a real thing, but you were bombarded with that? But what did you...
I mean, did you grow up without a father?
[39:20] Oh, just a yes or no, if you grew up without a father. I don't mean who was around in the house protecting you, good relationship, grew up good relationship with your father.
You told the story of you and your babysitter walking along in a car full of boys, whooping and hollering at her.
Yes, that's right. And she was a young girl who was, sorry, she was a young woman, probably about 20, with a great figure who was wearing very tight and revealing clothing, which is totally fine, but she was signaling sexual availability, and that was just a fact.
If she was walking with a man and dressed not in that exaggerated sexualized manner, the women wouldn't have hollered, right?
But you're not answering the question, Rose. Did you grow up and were you close your father.
In other words, if you were walking at the mall with your father holding his hand, did old creeps come up to you and try and, what, grab at you or say horrible things to you?
[40:31] My parents used to dislike yuppies and I sensed they had an aversion to upper class areas and establishments. Yeah, for sure.
It's very tough to... No, they did not.
Okay, so it wasn't so much that there were all these crow creeps around, it was that you weren't spending enough time with or close enough to your father, I would assume, which doesn't excuse what the men were doing, of course, right?
But we try and work our very best to avoid, right?
That women are not, I mean we have not evolved for men and women to spend decades clearly advertising sexual availability for men or for women, right? We just, we did not evolve for that.
Sexual attractiveness, you know, peaks in late teens and we were supposed to be pair bonded, having kids and moving on from that phase.
These days it's like going through puberty for 25 years.
It's a wild extension of the phase.
[41:36] So, the paradox between being attractive and wanting to draw attention is a challenging one for women.
On the one hand, maybe you want to attract attention from good men, but when you make yourself attractive, you will attract attention from most men.
The solution is to not... the solution is not to stop grooming.
No, the solution is to get married. The solution is to settle down.
The solution is to find a mate, have some kids, raise a family.
That's the solution not spend 40 years trying to get men to show sexual interest in you or romantic interest in you It would be great if dads could hold their daughters hands and be with them 24-7, but that can't happen.
[42:15] That's kind of snarky if you don't mind because I mean that's very snarky I'm genuinely trying to help and you're giving me this snarky stuff right?
Because I'm, you know, I have a daughter, right?
And so, if dads could hold their daughter's hands and be with them 24-7, but that can't happen.
So that's fairly terrible of you to type, just to be honest, because you're punishing me for trying to help you and understand something.
Because of course, I mean, I'm sorry that came across snarky, I didn't mean it that way I meant it sincerely.
No, no you didn't. Come on, don't be snarky and then tell me a falsehood.
It didn't come across snarky, it was snarky. Because if you're saying, if you're suggesting that my solution is something that's impossible, then it's not a solution and I'm a foolish, naive person, right?
[43:11] Oh, okay. Let me ask people, right? So if I'm trying to help someone and say, right, it would be great if dads could hold their daughters' hands and be with them 24-7, but that can't happen, right?
Am I wrong? Does that seem kind of snarky? Like, the only solution I have is for fathers to be 24-7 with their daughters and holding their hands.
Fathers don't work, they don't go to the bathroom, they don't make phone calls, they don't go hunting, they're just with their daughters 24-7.
So, that's not what I was talking about.
So, if I'm wrong about this, hit me with a why if you think that's snarky and I'll, you know, I'm always happy to check.
[43:51] If that... Well, yeah, well, so if she's saying that the solution that I'm suggesting is something that's completely impossible, then that's kind of snarky, right?
Yes, it seems snarky, but also a good point. No, it's not a good point.
It's not a good point at all. It's not a good point at all.
Uh, yes, I said I have a father. No, it's not a... it's not a good point.
Um... All right, well let me ask you this, Rose, and I'm happy to do a call in if this helps.
So let me ask you this, when you went to your father and said there are guys who are creeping me out, old guys are grabbing at me or saying sexual things to me as a little girl, right?
I'm sad I didn't get to spend more time with my dad. Okay, well that's an honest statement, right?
But the snarky stuff is a cover up for that and it's, you know, it's kind of impolite when someone's trying to help you, it's impolite either way, but. So, what did your father say when you told him that old guys were creeping on you as a kid?
[45:08] The answer is some men have agency for self-control, some don't. Reality.
Oh dear, we must have some noobs here. Look, saying the word reality is not an argument.
Some men have agency for self-control, some don't. Yeah, people with Tourette's, yes, they don't have agency.
People currently going through an epileptic fit, yes, they don't have agency.
People in a coma don't have agency.
People out in the world have agency. Every single person out in the world has agency.
Not currently in the grip of some neurological spasm, they have agency.
He actually didn't say anything to me. I don't know who you're talking about at this point.
I mean, did your father... Fathers have to teach their daughters to navigate around the dangers in the world, not shelter them.
Growing up as a boy into a man where you're taught self-control all day long the West is pretty safe Well, okay. So here's here's the reality.
Sorry Moment of rank hypocrisy because I just said reality is saying the word reality is not an argument But I'll say the word reality here and then I will give you the argument So I'm not relying on the word reality just just so you understand.
So you you say to your kids that, You you say to your kids.
[46:33] That there are bad people in the world, right? And, you know, I mean, I've had this conversation with my daughter, right? If we were out roaming around and whatever, she goes to one store, I go to another.
She's almost 15, right? She's like, I don't want to, right?
Yeah, right. So I've, you know, had the conversation.
I said, look, no one's ever going to grab at you. I mean, the odds of that happening are ridiculously tiny, right? It's like, you know, we go on roller coasters.
We don't expect them to fly apart at the seams and, you know, ride us into the sky.
So, the odds of anything happening are so completely ridiculously tiny, but in the incredibly unlikely scenario that it does happen, what you do is you scream at the top of your lungs, you punch, you try and poke the eye, you can hit any sensitive area in the body that you can get a hold of, and if anything even feels weird, you move away from the situation.
If anybody seems to be following you, you go to a security guard.
Like you just, you have the conversation about the past, the vague possibility of human predation and what to do.
And any, anytime you feel even remotely uncomfortable, you get out of the situation, you listen to the gift of fear in your gut.
And if anybody does something inappropriate, you just, you scream as loudly as you can.
Um, and you'll, and, and no one has ever done or said anything to my daughter that is even remotely inappropriate.
[47:57] And of course, and I said also, you know, you, you, if you have your phone, somebody's being creepy, you take a picture of them, you take a video of them, you come to me, we'll go to secure, like, so.
[48:11] Person says, hey Steph I just joined this live.
I used to watch you daily but quite honestly it's been years.
I hope you're doing well. I'm doing very well, thank you, very good, appreciate that, appreciate that.
And nothing's ever happened.
Is that a coincidence? I mean I was with her a lot. She's got confidence and she knows what to do in these kinds of situations and so on.
So how do I deal with people targeting me, bullying and or exploitation?
Recently with my therapy experiencing I've started to see more and more why I tend to be a magnet for that type of thing.
Hmm a great deal of sympathy for that.
A great deal of sympathy for that.
I mean I may be bullied one day. Could happen.
You know, we like to prepare for the wildly unusual possibilities of potential cyberbullying of all of this, right?
So, how do you deal with people targeting me, bullying, and or exploitation?
[49:28] Well, how... 1 to 10, how blunt should I be?
Because, you know, we've got some newish people, some spanking new people here. So.
[49:42] Um, how blunt should I be?
[49:47] Ten? Alright. I can take it.
[49:52] Scottish foreplague. Brace yourself. Alright, this one goes to eleven.
Alright, so, um, the reason that you're bullied by strangers is because you're bullied by friends and family.
Right? So the reason why people at work bully you is because people in your family bully you.
The reason why people push you aside in lineups is because you get bullied at home, usually by the parents. Right?
So everybody's like, well how do I deal with being bullied?
Well, you have to look for the biggest and closest bullies around and deal with them first.
And forget about the people on the periphery, forget about the people out there.
You gotta deal with the bullies who are like right in your face.
[50:34] Stephen was name dropped by some big YouTubers. Okay.
Yeah, so forget about all the bullies out there in the world.
If you have people who love you and don't bully you at home, who gives a shit about the bullies out there in the world?
If you have people bullying you at home, and this could be again, could be family, could be lovers, could be boyfriends, girlfriends, husbands, wives, parents, aunts, uncles, siblings.
If you're being bullied at home, if you're being bullied in some proximate, close, biological in-your-face kind of manner and it's been going on for years or decades, if you don't deal with that you can't do anything about the bullies out there in the world but if you deal with that the bullies out there in the world will smell this and vanish.
[51:19] You're trying to say how do I how do I move the shadow of a statue?
I've tried pushing it, I've tried spray-painting it, how do I move the shadow of the statue? It's like, well, you have to move the statue or the light source.
You can't move the shadow. Bullying in your life by periphery people, bosses, adults, people you didn't know growing up usually, bullying in your life is an effect of the bullying that's continuing to occur in your face, in your family, in your house, or whatever, right?
If you deal with the bullying in your life, bullying by others will van.
[52:04] As a child, someone says, I knew I couldn't call upon my father for help without, nullcancing him. What the hell kind of stronk is that?
I knew I couldn't call upon my father for help without nullcancing him.
All right, I'm sure that's bad. Other friends had fathers who would be there in a heartbeat if they dealt with conflicts by calling upon them.
I wished I had the same dedication from my father.
The woman I work with got touchy-feely and kept calling me love while gaslighting me when I confronted her about her job performance.
I stepped away and reiterate my points but people like this are effed up.
You're welcome. As imp, I hope it helps. And I'm sorry that you were bullied.
[52:52] Yeah, touchy-touchy kept calling me love while gaslighting me when I confronted her about her job performance. Right. So she initiated physical contact to avoid criticism.
Oh gosh, a woman using romantic or sexual agency in order to avoid consequences of her actions. Never seen that before.
How to call in? So you can email me at callinfreedomain.com.
That is callinfreedomain.com Now I'm happy to answer more questions.
I had something that came out of a call-in I haven't published it yet the call-in is titled.
Are you addicted to crazy women?
Are you addicted to crazy women because I had a call with a guy who?
Well, you could say you could say yes to that.
All right I'll take your question and then I will get to that other thing.
All right. Hey Steph Do you have any advice on how to be okay being single?
I'm currently 25 and I've always been in a relationship since I was 16 often with very small gaps between relationships.
It seems like when I don't have a significant other I go into survival mode and claw for the next person to latch on to desperately.
I think it causes me more pain than it should to be single. I'm unsure where this comes from.
Alternatively, do you still take call-ins? I do. I do. I do.
[54:11] So an emotionally manipulative girlfriend can make you susceptible to other bullies. That's really helpful info.
Yes, but the question is why do you have an emotionally manipulative girlfriend that's because you had emotionally manipulative parents or siblings or if you had siblings it's the parents fault anyway because they run the household.
So, I want to hear the crazy woman bit. All right.
So how to be okay being single?
[54:44] Why do people date compulsively?
And we'll get to the crazy woman. I appreciate that. Tips always welcome.
You can tip me on the various platforms.
You know how hard I work for these shows.
And also I know exactly how much value. People come to me literally with like massive life problems and in like five minutes, boom, answers.
Not necessarily massive solutions, but answers as to why this is going on.
So freedomain.com slash donate. If you're listening to this later, if you're listening to this right now, you can tip me for the great good that I'm doing.
And you're not tipping me for this live stream, you're tipping me for the 40 years of work, massive amounts of self-knowledge, therapy, books, a thousand college shows, you're tipping me for all of that concentrated wisdom that comes out of that as well.
Never dealt with their parents' abandonment threats, right.
That's a... bang on Jared, you always bring the gold, baby.
I don't know what happens next, sir, love what you do. Well if you knew what I was going to say next, you wouldn't be here at all, right, sir?
Why are you scared of being single?
[55:59] Why does isolation bring anxiety? Go back to your childhood. it.
Why does isolation bring anxiety? And you're right, Jared, because your parents are threatened to abandon you, threatened to punish you, threatened to...
Your parents dealt with you by withdrawing.
Your parents... and look, I've had this temptation on the, I don't know, very, very rare times when I'm annoyed by something, I have that temptation.
Well, I'm just going to back off, you know, I'm going to give you some space, right?
So and we all have this temptation. So your parents punished you by emotional withdrawal, by neglect.
And so when you're alone, it signifies great danger to you. I'm in danger because I'm alone.
So, I'm in danger because my parents have packed up the teepee and moved off and I don't know where they are and there are wolves around.
[56:52] I wish my gold came from a vault instead of mine from the dark cave of my parents' abuse. Very well put.
But better to have gold than none. Do you call my number or do you message back to set it up?
So, if you want to email me, callinfreedomain.com, just give me your Skype ID.
I do it over Skype, so just give me your Skype ID, rough availability times, and it's also helpful if I know what time zone you're in, and generally we'll schedule it through Skype.
So, if you send me your Skype ID, leave Skype open, I'll message you there.
[57:27] So, how to stay being single?
So, if solitude was a threat for you, and solitude is generally experienced by children as a threat, because you need to stay close to your parents.
I mean, you know, I remember when my daughter was very little, my wife and I were at the Eaton's Mall, and we were standing looking at the fountain, and a couple of people stood between me and my daughter, who was a few feet away, and she just burst into tears, because she couldn't see us, right?
And so being away, being alone as a child is really dangerous, like as a child you'll do almost anything to avoid being alone.
With the exception that if the people around you are incredibly stressful and difficult and abusive and nasty, then solitude might be a place, the only place you can find peace.
So the reason I would assume why you're anxious, being single, no don't apologize for just sending your phone number, that's totally fine, I was not telling you what to do. So, no, don't need to apologize for that at all.
I was completely unclear and I appreciate your sending me the message, so...
Yeah, so... A single is death as a kid.
Especially when, of course, in the past there was no birth control or very little birth control.
So what would happen is people would have a whole bunch of kids and so being alone would be like the home alone thing, right?
[58:46] That's a really busy mall, love the Canadian geese there, yes, yes indeed. So, when the home alone thing, right, where the kid gets left behind, right, and what happens?
He gets left behind, well, he buys an absurd amount of groceries for 20 bucks or whatever, but he gets left behind and then he gets attacked, right?
So, he's left behind in the big old house, it's kind of cool, it's kind of fun, and then he gets attacked, right?
So, this is playing upon children's fear of solitude.
So, if your parents punished you by withdrawing, then when you're alone, you feel in great danger, death, mortality.
And this is why a lot of people are driven into the arms of others, right?
Because the best way to gain companionship as an adult is through sexual offerings, right?
[59:34] Somebody says, I had an eight-month gap between relationships in a decade.
After that, I had longer breaks and started to love being alone because I could focus on studying career.
I'm happy that I learned to be alone, but now it's become more of an appealing option than it was before.
I've been talking myself out of choosing to be alone rather than having a family because now it seems like a safer option.
[59:54] Yeah, we're not designed to be alone. We are dogs, not cats.
We are herd animals, pack animals.
As Aristotle said, and the only people who can stand being alone are beasts or gods.
I mean, for long periods of time and so on. So yeah, we're social animals, right? We are chatbots.
We are incomplete without others.
I mean, we are incomplete without others. Saying that a human being is fine on his own is like saying your finger can live without the rest of your body.
We are incomplete on our own. And we also go crazy on our own.
We get up in our own head. Sanity is, to a large degree, social.
Now, of course, you have to be around sane people, but sanity is social, right?
[1:00:39] Some of us are more cat than dog. No, I don't believe it.
No, I think that's a cope. I think that's a cope. We all... I mean, look, if we're designed to be with people, and you're using language, right?
Now, you know language is designed to communicate with people.
So you're here listening to a conversation using language, which is all because, We are dogs, not cats, right?
So everything that you have is about people cooperating and working with each other.
It wasn't like one guy built your whole house, or one guy built the whole internet, or one guy built my whole computer. It's all collaboration.
Everything that you participate in is woven into a social fabric of everyone working together and being together.
I remember my family saying, you're a dog and a cat family, because I would sit in the living room to get any social interaction.
Yeah, and there's no such thing as a cat family.
There's no such thing as a cat family. That's like saying cats are pair-bonded.
They're not. Dogs are pair-bonded.
Alright. Now, what's the biggest way people hold you down? And this, I doubt you know.
Would time house be part of what you're talking about? Yes. Even cats need company.
Yeah, but they are, a lot of them are solitary, right? So they can do without it. I mean, they need company from time to time. And of course they have to mate and all of that, but uh...
[1:01:59] Now, what's the number one way that people keep those who are growing down?
What's the number one way that people keep those down who are striving to grow?
Now you've heard it, I mean, you'll get it when I tell it because you've heard it a million times on the show, but I haven't concentrated in this kind of conversation.
What is the number one way that people, that the trash class keeps people down?
Mental leash, that's too abstract.
It's something, I promise you goosebumps on this. I promise you goosebumps on this.
[1:02:51] Sabotage, the promise of something, breadcrumbs of attention, applause and then nothing, slander and ostracism. No.
No.
Withholding or withdrawing. They don't want to expose their own failure.
That may be a motive, but that's not what they do.
They occupy so much of your time that you can't spend it improving. That's good. No. You.
[1:03:24] They complain about their lives, claim they want to do better and never change at all. That's it, man. That's the one.
They are miserable, tragic, underperforming, underachieving, complain about it and they lure you in. Come in, man.
Man, you're doing well. Maybe you can help me out, man.
You know, I, I'm just, I'm, I'm, I'm just not happy. I mean, I'm bad.
My marriage is not going well. I'm not getting along with my kids.
I'm not doing that well at work. I'm, and now this can be explicit or implicit.
They underachieve and then either you go in or they lure you in to save them.
What's the number one way you get people to drown? You push them in the water.
Nope. You pretend to drown and pull them down.
[1:04:25] Dave says, so many years wasted trying to help others who said that to me.
Yes, I had someone like that recently wasted a year of my life with a divorcee alcoholic guy.
My former best friend to a tee, they waste your time.
That's my partner's obese dad. That's what my partner's obese dad would do.
She would spend hundreds of hours making diet plans for him.
Then he'd eat a large pizza.
Yeah, that can be really draining, yeah.
Tell me if you've ever seen this, a woman who complains how much her husband drinks, who passes him alcohol.
A woman who complains how much her husband drinks, and then she passes him alcohol.
So... They want your accolades, but won't do the work. I've been a sucker for that for two decades. Now I'm slopping.
I'm stopping, sorry! It's been a conscious decision, yes.
Yes, that experience has repeated itself too many times in my life with people.
Yes, yes it is. Yes it is.
[1:05:31] Yes, ex-best friend and his wife, my mother, but with poor diet and cigarettes instead of alcohol for my father. Yep, typical, that's why Al-Anon exists.
Am I, am I, so it sounds like, am I, am I wrong? Is there, and the reason why I say it's, it's the way that, it's, it's how people keep you down the most, if you're trying to improve, is because it's the most subtle.
Definitely seen the enabler prosecutor paired with addicts often, yeah.
I'm going to police your behavior. I'm going to make you better.
I'm going to inspire you. I'm going to help you.
I want you to come along with me on this journey because otherwise I'm isolated.
Right? So there's two dependents in a way. Right?
So as you improve, it threatens your relationships with the trash people.
And then what happens is you want to bring the trash people along with you.
And they offer explicitly or implicitly. Right?
You ever have somebody who says, I'm not happy in my relationship, you give them some advice and they do the opposite or they don't do it anything at all?
[1:06:37] When you improve, maybe I was just really bad at this, always a possibility, sometimes more than a possibility.
When you grew, when you improved, when you improved, how many people came along with you?
How many people came along with you when you left Trash Planet?
Is this how multi-level marketing scams work? I almost got screwed by some marketer like this, but jumped ship before I lost serious money.
I mean bad LMMs, sorry bad?
MLMs are basically attempting to get you to monetize your personal relationship, so they make money and you lose your relationships.
Zero! Oh shit, none.
I just wanted my buddies to succeed too. It's like dipping back down trying to save a sibling from family abuse.
Two tried to follow to drag me back into the fold. That's right.
How dare you get away, someone says.
Friend would work out with me and halfway through would say, let's leave.
[1:07:55] The only reason people follow you out of Trash Planet is to drag you back in.
Mostly. I mean, I'm sure there are exceptions. I'm just... The virtually universal experience, right?
It's like saying, the purpose of the lottery for most people is to lose money.
It's like, well some people win, yeah.
The only people, the only reason people follow you out of Trash Planet is to drag you back in!
[1:08:31] So, I talked about how sarcasm pulls you back down into Trash Planet, but what's much more seductive is you wanting to help people.
You wanting to help people.
Oof. There is almost no bigger cause of human disaster, than wanting to help people who won't change. You followed people out of Trash Planet? Well good, I'm glad.
I'm glad I got out of Trash Planet.
I recently brought a trash person along for the last time. I gave so much to try to help her after her recent transition.
[1:09:21] The offer of change is one of the most destructive mindsets on the planet. the belief in change.
Well, I find this woman really sexy, but I really have some trouble with her personality, but I'm sure she'll change.
Man, my parents were super mean to me when I was younger, but I'm sure they've changed. I'm sure they'll change. They'll just change.
They'll evolve, they'll grow like a little acorn into a tree.
They'll just grow, they'll change, this, that, the other, right?
When my friend changed jobs, he stopped calling me and told his family his best friend abandoned him. Excellent.
They are sent out like scouts to pull you back. I stick with honesty now and now they don't persist.
God wants you to help people too, but the discernment is hard when your barometer was set while you were in Trash Planet.
God wants you to help people too.
Tell me more about that. Tell me more about God wanting.
Tell me more about God wanting you to help people.
[1:10:38] What's the, I mean I know love your neighbor as yourself and so on, which is more of a Jesus thing than a God thing.
But, how does God want you to help people? Help those who help themselves?
I'll give you the analogy that kicks in my brain.
I'll kick you with the analogy in my brain. So, hit me with a why if you've ever helped someone move.
I mean, most of us have, right? You move as a teenager, you move in your twenties.
Hit me with a why if you've ever helped someone move.
The new on-screen comment is new, yes. You've helped someone move, right?
Now, when you help someone move, they set a date, they're moving out, They've got a new place or some storage or whatever, and they've got boxes and so on. Right.
Although I remember helping someone move. He hadn't unpacked anything and he just had a bunch of glad bags.
It was a real mess, but that's so you help someone move. They've, they've already sold their place or moved down.
They've, they've handed in their notice, their leases up. They're moving to some new place. They're moving out of their parents' place. They've got a day and you're there to help them move. Right.
Cause it's all planned. It's all set up. It's all going right.
[1:12:06] Now, if you, imagine this scenario, your friend says, I don't really like where I'm living, the neighborhood's too loud, there are smokers next door, they play a lot of heavy metal or whatever, right? So, I don't like where I'm living, right?
So then, imagine if you show up at 2 o'clock in the morning with a bunch of boxes and start packing up his stuff.
Now you knock on the door, he opens, he's like, Okay, we're moving, you go in and you start packing up his stuff.
Now, he said he wants to move, and you're just helping him. Well, what happens?
I really don't like this place, man. I gotta move, I gotta move, I really, really wanna move.
You just show up in the middle of the night, bunch of boxes, you start packing up his stuff. What does he say?
What are you doing? I'm helping you move. I'm not, I don't have a place to go, I haven't handed in notice, I got three months left on my lease, I can't afford any new place, I don't even have a job.
Right? No, no, no. You told me that you didn't like where you were living, and I'm packing you up to move.
[1:13:20] Right, so Dave says you're supposed to clothe the naked, feed the starving, visit the imprisoned. Clothe the naked, right.
So you understand to clothe the naked means that they have to put the clothes on, right?
So if there's someone naked and you give them clothes and they set fire to them or try to eat them or throw them aside, then you can't clothe the naked.
You can't clothe the naked if the naked won't put their clothes on!
What if somebody's hungry and you give them food and they'd throw it on the ground? They're on a hunger strike or they're a supermodel, I don't know what, right? They're trying to lose weight.
So feed the starving means you put the food in front of them and what do the starving do? They pick up the spoon and they eat the food.
[1:14:05] Clothe the naked. Yes, you offer clothes to the naked and if the naked people throw it away you don't deal with them anymore.
You give food to somebody who's hungry if he throws it aside or throws it in the gutter or turns it upside down and does a macarena on top of the bowl, then you stop feeding him.
So yes, of course, it's fine to offer help to people you care about, yes, absolutely.
Somebody is having parenting issues and they call me and say, oh, I've got parenting issues, some friend or whatever, I can say, hey, I'd be happy to talk about it.
And if he doesn't want to talk about it or doesn't want any advice, I go to somebody who will!
[1:14:51] I'm not arguing for stupid repetition, I'm saying we attempt to due to this virtue.
Oh Dave, do you not think this is blindingly obvious what you're doing?
I say helping people who won't be helped is a great problem and you say, but the Bible commands us to!
And then I say, yes but not people who don't want to be helped and you're like, no I agree with that! Oh my god.
Oh, I'm so glad I have such a big forehead for some of these slaps.
[1:15:28] You understand how this works, right?
I make the point that it's bad to help people who don't want to be helped, and you say, well, it's a biblical commandment to help people, and then you give me the example, and then you say, well, no, I'm agreeing with you.
So you brought up the biblical stuff to disagree with me, And then when I prove that wrong you're saying no, I agree with you.
Oh my god Don't do that man.
Don't do that because doing that kind of shit is gonna keep quality people out of your life Don't do that.
You just say you say hey, you know what? That's a really great argument Maybe I didn't think of that before or that's a really great perspective or whatever, right?
The comment was about developing discernment, okay now I don't know what you're talking about because you've made like 20 comments So again now we're just fucking right, Just, yeah, just, just, you know, if somebody's done something of value, don't just move the goalposts, just be gracious, that's all, just, hey man, it's a good argument, thank you.
That makes sense, yeah. I can understand, like you, right, because I'm talking about the people who lure you back in, the whole conversation has been about people who lure you back in and then won't change.
[1:16:38] I don't think Jared is actually saying, forgive your abusers.
No, I mean, obviously in terms of Christianity, God doesn't forgive those who don't repent.
So I'm not going to try and have a higher moral standard than God, that would be insane, that would be like regulating AI.
I'm not going to have a higher moral standard than God.
And God doesn't forgive those who don't repent. it. Yeah, so why on earth would I, I mean, forgive your abusers? Yeah, if they repent, absolutely.
Yeah, I mean, I don't know, the people who say, well, you know, God doesn't forgive people who don't repent and God is the all moral, all perfect being, but I'm above that.
I'm superior to that. God is morally inferior to my compulsive need to avoid conflict by forgiving people who don't repent or pretending to, right?
To me that's just a wild thing.
Yeah, or regulating Bitcoin, yeah. I mean, that's a wild thing, right?
It's a wild thing to place yourself above all moral, all perfect, all powerful, all knowing.
[1:17:52] Like, forgive people People who haven't repented is wild, is wild.
Forgiving an abuser who repents does not mean that the trust comes back.
Trust is earned after broken like that. Well forgiveness has nothing to do with the future.
You can forgive someone and never see them again. Right?
I mean the classic, well hit me with a why if this would be of value to you.
I want to obviously provide as much value as possible. Hit me with a Y if this is a value to you.
[1:18:28] Ooh, pin on timer, look at that, isn't that nice. Let's do that.
What the heck? I pin on a timer and it half vanishes. What does that mean?
Oh, I did the wrong one. Ooh, sorry.
Let me get back to that, pin on timer. That's handy.
There we go. Forgiving an abuser who repents does not mean that trust comes back. Yeah, I want to make sure I'm adding value to here.
I've forgiven a couple of people that have repented, but I told them, Vaya con Dios, get lost, good luck, I don't need you in my life. Right.
[1:18:57] So, you know the 7 to 1 ratio, I've mentioned it before, but for the new people, right, 7 to 1 ratio, for every bad thing that happens, you need 7 good things in order to balance things in a relationship, right?
Every 7 bad things, so if you have one bad day, you need a week of good, great days, just to even it out, just to break even, right?
It's not 1 to 1 because our brains are primed to focus more on negative stimuli than positive stimuli because negative stimuli gets us killed, right? So if you eat a bad, if you eat a berry that's bad, uh, you got to eat seven good berries just to break even, right? If the same kind, right?
[1:19:29] So if, I don't know, let's say my mother called me up tomorrow, right?
And she said, uh, GM, I've listened to your show. I'm really, really sorry. Blah, blah, blah. And we went through the whole thing. Right.
And let's say that she did something to earn my forgiveness for what she did 40 years ago. Right. Okay.
So, I may, for whatever, let's just say I forgive her and so on, right?
But then she says, should I call again? I'd be like, well, no.
It's like it's physically impossible that we can have a good relationship.
Like it's mathematically impossible for us to have a good relationship.
And she'd say, well, why, right?
And I would say, well, I'm 57 years old and for 57 years it's been a bad relationship, right?
So let's do 57 times 7, so in 399 years of perfect behavior on your part, we break even. It's not good, it's not bad.
[1:20:29] So I've got 400 years of perfect behavior from you, just to break even.
Just to, and that would be like, okay, maybe there's something positive that can go on here.
Now, I do work out and I get my blood work done and I take care of my health and so on.
But not 400 years worth of it. I'm not going to live to see the future, like my novel, right? So, maybe if I'm lucky I got another 30 years, I go 57 to 87, right?
My mother is in her 80s, she doesn't even live that well, and she ain't got 400 years of juice left in her bones, right?
So, like it's physically, mathematically, psychologically, in reality, completely impossible.
Like, if I were to say to her, call me, I would have to say, call me, oh no, I wouldn't even be able to say, I would say call me in 400 years, but then I wouldn't know whether it was good or bad, right?
So it's become completely mathematically, factually, foundationally, physically impossible for us to have a good relationship.
That's called closure, right? Closure is when you stop having the illusion that you can turn things around, but can't turn around, like if I were to say to my wife, I wake up tomorrow and say, damn it, I missed my calling, man.
[1:21:53] Yodeling ballet dancer for the Bolshoi ballet. That's what I'm going to be doing.
Screw this philosophy stuff. It's kind of stressful. And occasionally people can be mean to you.
I'm going lead Nureyev Baryshtikov dancer for the Bolshoi ballet.
And I'm going to throw some yodeling in there too. Right. What would she say?
She would say, well, if that's your dream, I'm afraid that ship of sailors.
Right? You can't be. You can't be a ballet dancer starting at 57. You can't do it.
And you can't even touch your toes. I've always had the flexibility of your average slap of sidewalk so no no no no no. Right?
[1:22:38] This is why you don't let screw-ups last for long in your relationships, right?
This is why you don't sit there fighting with your girlfriend and not making up for a week, because then you need seven weeks of perfect behavior just to break even.
Not to build anything new, not to be more in love, just to take away the bad, right?
It only takes a moment to break your arm. It's going to probably take you two months to fix it, and then months of rehab to make it better.
Only takes a moment to break something. To fix it takes just about forever.
All right, let me just see here.
Repent means go and sin no more, or at least make that the aim.
Go and sin no more, right.
That's a lot of bad to overcome, that's right. So true, Steph, totally agree. I'm always happy to see, oh, so and so in the chat, yeah.
It's unlikely that there would be perfect behavior. Of course, yeah. Biblically, there is the millennium though, a thousand years.
I'm there with my dad and it's heartbreaking. There's just so much bad.
My natural response to him is filled with the pain of that.
So sad how relationships can break down that bad.
What do you mean relationships can break down that bad? Well that's why you're heartbroken.
I mean the relationship didn't break down, right?
[1:24:00] The relationship didn't break down at all.
[1:24:09] I mean if you're driving in Arizona, some middle of the desert highway, on a dark desert highway, I say middle of some desert highway, and some guy jumps from behind a boulder, stands on the hood of your car and machine guns your engine, right?
Machine guns your engine and then runs cackling off into the cactus forest.
And then an hour or two later some cop comes along and says, what happened? Right?
And you say, man, my, my car just broke down.
Is that accurate?
Is that even remotely accurate? To say, the car broke, my car broke down.
I mean it's really sad that cars can just break down that badly.
And he's like, wait, why are there all these bullet holes on the hood of your car? Why are all these bullets like scattered back as your car slowed down?
[1:25:24] Your dad destroyed the relationship. It didn't just break down.
Your dad machine-gunned the engine of the car of your relationship.
Because parents are always in charge of the relationship. Parents are always responsible for the quality of the relationship with the child. Always and forever.
Doesn't matter how old you are. Because parents set the tone, they set the pacing, they set the language, they set the self-esteem, they do a lot to define the child's personality. based on... See, do you follow?
Because when you say, well the relationship broke down, if you say, well my car broke down, but did you get it maintained?
Did you get it serviced? Did you get it maintained? Did you not fill up the oil? Did you not put the water in the radiator?
Like, well it just broke down, then you're partly responsible, but if some guy just jumps out of nowhere, machine guns your engine and runs cackling off into the cactus forest, your car didn't just break down, it was broken down, it was sabotaged, it was attacked, it was destroyed by somebody external.
[1:26:23] People say you see this all the time these people will change adjust their behavior for a bit and eventually they go back to effing up yeah but that's luring you back right, holy shit that makes sense someone says my mom always says the way she was when I was a child was so long ago I'm 25, Oh, look at that. It does, it does, uh, it does a line break. That's nice.
Uh, sorry about this. My mom says the way she was when I was a child was so long ago, I'm 25, that she wishes I could just move on and have a relationship with her because she's better now.
The seven to one thing is so good. Well, it's a fact. It's a fact.
It's a fact. Move on, right? Just, just move on. Okay.
[1:27:13] You know how I got that in for a parent to say just move on?
So when a parent says, an abusive parent says, just move on, what is your relationship like with your siblings? Are you asking me?
I am not sure if you're asking me or someone else because you're all talking with yourselves, which is fine.
So for a parent to say, like just move on man, just move on.
So what the parent is saying is, pretend we don't have a past.
[1:27:48] Pretend we don't have a past. Okay, so you want me to judge you as a stranger.
You're just some person 35 years older than I am who's just kind of around.
Like, you want me to judge you like I just met you at a party or a dinner party or a coffee shop or something and we chatted for a few minutes.
So just move on means pretend we don't have a history, pretend we don't have a past, pretend there's no there back there.
Alright? So you want to strip yourself of any benefits of being a parent.
Because part of the parental benefit or part of the reason that we have relationships with parents is because of the past. The major reason is because of the past, right?
So bizarre to me.
I mean can you imagine And I go to my wife, pretend we're not married, pretend we never got married, pretend we've never met.
And she'd call the cops. What the hell are you doing in my house, you bald stranger?
[1:28:44] I don't know. It's strange. Dave says, it was hard for me to finally accept the relationship I hoped for would never exist with my parents and sister.
They don't have relationships like that with anyone. My father is incapable of truly caring about someone.
The process of the sadness grief is important. He killed it.
He never developed it with me. I used to believe it was my fault.
Yeah, of course, of course you believe it's your fault and you have to do that as a kid. You got a crazy parent. You have to believe it's your fault.
Just move on is maddening. Yeah, well, it's natural.
And the other thing too, let's say when you were a kid, okay, tell me this, what was the thing that your mom got most, we'll just say moms, right?
What was the thing that your mom got most mad at you for when you were a kid?
What was the thing that your mom got most mad at you for when you were a kid?
I think one of the things I've mentioned before was I put a cup on a cabinet, a pretty cabinet, I put a cup on a cabinet and it left a little water ring for a while, And just beat the hell out of me, right, Now my mom got really mad at me for putting A cup on a cabinet.
[1:29:55] And she got really mad at me and if I had said it's in the past just move on just move on Just move on.
Asking why? Not doing homework? I pissed on the floor and she beat me? I'm sorry about that.
If I lost something, she would have to repurchase the mittens, right? So you just say, hey I lost my mittens. Well I'm mad you lost your mittens.
Move on! It's in the past, just move on.
God, forgive me. Let it go. Move on.
[1:30:27] Would that have worked? Oh, yeah, suck, slash suck.
Yeah, so of course, if your mom was really mad at you for something, and if you just said, mom, move on, move on, it's in the past, just let it go, move on, let's build for the future, forget about the past, right?
Forget about the future, let's get on with the past.
If I express the negative experience that she caused, that was when she'd get most vicious, right? Right?
Right, look, Rafiki, it's in the past, man. Right, so, yeah, so the funny thing is of course that for completely minor things you did, right?
Like me putting a wet glass on a cabinet. For completely minor things you did, there was no letting go, there was no moving on, there was no forgiveness, right?
But for literal decades of child abuse, suddenly, suddenly the whole...
How the turns have tabled, right?
The whole table turns, now you're in upside down world, now...
When you were a kid, your mother didn't move on, or forgive, or forget anything.
She'd punish the shit out of you, if she was abusive. But now that you're an adult and you have some legitimate criticism for her shitty parenting now It's all about the hey move on don't get stuck in the past. It's important to forgive and forget like.
[1:31:36] Bullshit absolute bullshit, Absolute bullshit, It's uh, it's the most unbelievably transparent, vicious, mind-bending, gaslighting manipulation known to man, god, or demon.
A defining moment of my healing is when I got old enough to realize I'd never beat her up for losing a pair of mittens. Dirtying your shoes would enrage? Yeah, yeah.
[1:32:09] Yeah Mine would rage when I point to that hypocritical behavior.
She called it psychobabble. Yeah.
[1:32:18] Yeah, no, I mean live by the sword die by the sword you punish children for inconsequential things I, Mean honestly my mom I mean she obviously has her manipulative shit But my mom my mom knew me well enough to never try that and it's just you know, she tried other things on me It's not anything particularly good about me, But she knew that I had studied enough moral philosophy that for her to say it's important to move on, forget about the past.
This is the same woman who when she saw her husband, my father, after 20 years and he had a cold, and apparently he had a lot of colds when they were married, she's like, that's probably the same cold he had while we were married.
You know, it's like, oh yeah, tell me more about forgiving the past and moving on when you're still mad at your husband for having a cold after you haven't seen him for 20 years. Oh, it's hilarious.
Where are the people who think like this in the world? Well, where are the people who help themselves or think like the people in this community?
People that hold parents accountable.
Am I doing something keeping them out of my life? Or is it truly as rare as it feels? Well, it is rare, for sure.
For sure. Like, because parents think... Because abusive parents think the move on, forgive and forget bullshit will work, that's why they abuse.
If they knew they couldn't get away with it, they'd be much less likely to abuse, right? And we know this, like when the police go and strike, all of the petty thieves come out and steal everything, right?
[1:33:44] So the forgive and forget nonsense, because it works in their mind, they say, well, I can abuse them and then later I can just say forgive and forget, right?
Hopefully thanks to Steph Moore, we'll come out. Well, it's the whole community all working together that, right?
Oh, did you ever hear this one? Well, what do you want me to do? I can't change the past.
I can't change the past. Maybe if I went back in time, I'd do something different.
I can't change the past. What do you want me to do?
Oh, it's so pathetic. Oh my gosh, Lord knows I've made mistakes in my life, but I've never had to say anything that ridiculous, right?
[1:34:34] The one time my mother admitted to the abuse, you justified it by saying, I thought you wouldn't remember.
Well, this is actually quite true for a lot of parents who beat children around the head, is that the brain injuries or brain bruising or concussions or, it doesn't have to go that far, but especially when kids are young, you know, like shaking babies, you can kill a baby just by shaking it.
And so parents who hit children are almost in a sense they have this, some of them have this belief that they can literally knock the memories out, that you will have trauma, so to speak.
Now do you know why the, that nonsense in no way shape or form works? I mean, logically.
I can't change the past.
[1:35:34] I mean, was that ever a defense for you as a kid? Right, you knock over your mother's favorite coffee cup.
She gets mad at you and you say, Hey, I can't change the past.
What do you want me to do? Go back in time and not drop it? It's dropped.
Forget it. Move on. I can't change the past.
Somebody says, I remember getting punched in the temple and blacking out on the floor. Oh, yeah. No, I mean, I was like when my mom was beating my head against the door.
I literally, I remember very clearly. Well, I'm not going to live through this. So I got to go limp.
I went limp to signal submission because I was like three or four years of age and I just I literally I just had to go limp to signal submission so that she'd stop damaging my brain.
And maybe this is one of the reasons why I ended up with tinnitus in an ear right because that stuff can do some serious damage right.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. All parental violence is based on a death threat.
[1:36:33] It makes me think of the parenting idea. If those kids won't remember circumcision, do you remember anything about their age of four?
Well, and the studies are out, and I've mentioned this before, but the studies just came out even to confirm this, that like, six months after circumcision, the circumcised boy's baby's brain, baby brain, has still not returned to baseline.
Right? It is like it escalates their stress, cortisol levels and adrenaline and all of that.
Six months after the circumcision they're still not normal. They still have never, I think you never return to baseline and I mean maybe that's a big division in society between genitally mutilated boys and non genitally mutilated boys because it does seem to change the brain pretty permanently.
[1:37:15] We get abused for being truth-tellers. I have a broken tooth I see every day to remind me of it. Sorry about that. Not too bad to fix, is it, though?
Trauma you experience in the womb can affect you for life, yeah?
Well, I mean, you think of fetal alcohol syndrome, for sure.
John Krochan's kid, one of the prime ministers, had that here.
[1:37:34] My mom was abandoned and pursued her mother as an adult. She explicitly told me that she expected me to do the same.
Mom told me she deserves forgiveness just for the fact that she's my mother.
Well, then why wouldn't a child deserve forgiveness for the fact that she's a child?
Why would a child be... Why would a child receive less forgiveness than an adult?
I mean, it makes no sense. I mean, the law recognizes that. A friend of mine's sister was molested by her stepfather.
Their mother is still with the guy and chose to reject her daughter with the same just let it go approach.
My friend's sister has battled major mental health issues and has been completely alienated from any family support.
I don't like that term alienated.
It's a cold, brittle, negative term.
I mean if a woman leaves her highly abusive husband, do you say she's just alienated from her spouse?
My father wouldn't even acknowledge me pointing out his poor behavior.
About two or three times when I was an adult, he let the mask slip and his answers were direct acknowledgment of his acts were only meant to satisfy himself and he didn't care about what would be best for me or my sister.
See how this goes. Big chunk of text.
[1:39:01] His go-to most of my life was no answer, no facial expressions, or maybe grin if I was super mad or nothing.
Yeah, so the frozen face parent is very much rejection, very much a death threat, right?
You can't move me, there's no bond, there's no attachment, that's very much a death threat as a whole.
My father wouldn't, he said, Dave, my father wouldn't even acknowledge me pointing his poor behavior out. Let's see if we get even more of that.
Oh, we got that one.
Oh, you just, um, it's the same, okay.
[1:39:42] Yeah, that is shown in the still face experiment, yeah, you can look that up, that's important to check out.
Well, listen, I mean, I really, really am sorry for what you all have suffered.
I mean, it's not all of you, of course, but the people who are posting about this stuff, I'm really, really sorry.
I'm really, really sorry. Michelle says, that's a good point.
I imagine my mom would say, you're just turning what I say against me.
I don't want to talk to you anymore.
When you unravel people's words, they always say the same thing.
You're twisting my words. You're twisting my words.
When you listen to people and accurately reflect back what they're saying, they're saying, you're twisting my words. And what they're actually saying is my words are twisted.
Death threat, still face, didn't know that makes sense, thanks for sharing it.
Yes, anytime a parent says I don't care, they're saying I don't care if you live or die and you're dependent on me for survival.
That's what they're always saying. They're saying I don't care whether you live or die and you're dependent upon me for survival.
And it's really horrible.
All parental threats are death threats. Because you know, I mean, otherwise you'd fight back, right?
You'd fight back tooth and nail, you'd bite, but you know that the parent can escalate to the point where you can die, right?
[1:41:01] Alright, any other last comments or tips? Let me know if this is... You've got it warped!
Yeah! Yeah, you were warped by a warped birther.
Any other last comments, questions, tips?
If you're listening to this later, freedomain.com slash donate. And let me ask you this.
I'm trying a new platform here. And what do you think of it?
What do you think of the platform?
Is it better, worse, indifferent? I guess I can turn off the donate thing up here.
I'm just sort of getting used to it. But I do like the fact that we can put people's questions up. I think that's helpful.
I can also do a presentation thing as well, which is kind of neat.
And it will allow for calls with video. I mean, I would assume people wouldn't want video on their calls, but that certainly is a thing.
[1:41:56] Uh, my partner's mom denied a hug at a grocery store when she was six, because she didn't want to look like a lesbian. Excellent.
Uh, tip next week, this week is tight with big plans for the new year.
I appreciate that. This has been a huge stream.
This is nice. It's not bad, right? It's not bad at all, and I appreciate that.
This has been very helpful, like the new comment feature, love this community, the community is great.
You guys are, I mean, it's a real honor to go through life with you guys.
I'm just straight up, massive gratitude and massive thanks.
I think the streams are hitting a huge stride and this platform works well.
I'm interested in your take on sadism. You mentioned it in a recent stream and hoped it would be a topic soon. I think that's great.
I can feel my juice running dry at the moment, but I'll make a note of it here.
Sadism is very, very interesting. It's very interesting and way more common than people think. All right.
[1:42:48] Well, thanks everyone for a good chat today. I really appreciate everyone dropping by. We'll be seeing you tomorrow night at 7 p.m.
I think I'll try the same platform again, and I really, really do appreciate everyone's support and attention, vulnerability, openness, honesty, affection, and feedback.
It means the world to me and this show and this conversation, which will last for all time, is infinitely better for you being a part of it, and I really, really thank you enormously for that.
So have yourselves a wonderful rest of the day, and I'll talk to you soon. Bye.
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