0:00 - Introduction
1:43 - Relationship Struggles and Love Triangle
11:03 - Division of Household Chores
12:54 - Addressing Financial Dynamics
19:17 - Difficulty with Expressing Feelings
22:33 - Conversations about Finances and Future Plans
58:39 - Father's Marriages and Mother's Attractiveness
1:06:00 - Mother's Influence on Relationships
1:10:59 - Father's Focus on Providing
1:13:10 - House Financial Burden and Disagreements
1:15:55 - Dealing with Financial Responsibilities and Commitments
1:18:17 - Expectations and Responsibilities in Relationships
1:20:16 - Encouraging Responsibility and Adult Behavior
1:24:01 - Fear of Confrontation and Changing Dynamics in Marriage
1:46:12 - Dissatisfaction and Choices
2:02:50 - Reflections on Marriage and Relationships
2:12:13 - Setting Standards and Expectations
The first caller opens up about his troubled marriage, citing difficulties in communication and emotional expression with his wife, along with financial tensions and challenges in discussing shared feelings and finances openly. Seeking advice on overcoming these hurdles, he reflects on strategies for improving appreciation, dividing household chores, and harmonizing lifestyle and financial decisions within the relationship.
Another caller shares her struggles with not enjoying university, feeling drained from connecting with teenagers while teaching English for private lessons and providing counseling. The conversation veers into her dating history, family financial support, and the implications of family wealth management on children, emphasizing the importance of preparing them for financial responsibilities and relationships.
Stefan and a caller delve into family dynamics and the impact of upbringing on relationships, exploring factors influencing partner selection such as age, wealth, and personal history. They discuss societal norms, emotional dynamics, and the roles of men and women in relationships, as well as the influence of family upbringing on future interactions and understanding motivations and behaviors in romantic partnerships.
The discussion shifts to the dynamics of relationships, particularly highlighting women's choices in partner selection and the challenges faced by adult partners in managing finances and commitments. Stefan advocates for straightforward communication and accountability in addressing financial responsibilities within relationships, emphasizing respect and mutual commitment among adults.
Further, the dialogue touches on the importance of paying bills and maintaining adult behavior in relationships, addressing challenges such as fertility issues, lack of intimacy, and dissatisfaction within marriages. Stefan engages in a candid conversation with a caller regarding masculinity, femininity, emotional availability, and the need for proactive decision-making to resolve underlying issues, urging open communication, introspection, and trust-building within relationships.
In a subsequent segment, Stefan addresses a caller's concerns about his wife's potential infidelity and lack of consideration for his feelings, advising setting boundaries, open communication, and prioritizing long-term relationship goals. The caller is encouraged to assert his needs, address issues directly with his wife, and focus on ongoing communication for the well-being of their relationship.
[0:00] Hello, sir.
[0:00] Hello, hello. How's it going?
[0:03] It's great to hear you. I've been listening to your voice for like 15 years, I think. It's quite an experience for me to be in touch.
[0:14] Well, I appreciate that. I wish, of course, that the circumstances were a little different, but we'll do whatever good we can. Do you want to read your email? I can put it into Skype if If you want, how do you want to start?
[0:31] Yeah, I think that's a good start. So I've been with my wife. Oh, shit, it went away. But anyway, I have it open as well. So I have been with my wife for about 20 years and married for 10 out of that. We have a four-year-old son. But the last two years of our marriage has been a continuous downslope. And it came to a crash this June. I'd been working a lot and she felt lonely. I think we had an unfortunate relationship dynamic where if I was trying to get closer, she was pushing me away and that made me try less. She started doing parkour, which is a form of free running and jumping around. She's been doing that for about three years.
[1:15] And I wasn't really happy about that. I think it's rather risky. And if she wants to stay fit, she can do less risky stuff and stuff that's easier to arrange. So she doesn't have to travel that much.
[1:30] If she needs company, again, she could satisfy it elsewhere. And now she ended up breaking her arm doing parkour, I think, two years ago. And that was a big downside in our relationship.
[1:43] relationship this spring she got close with another guy also at parkour and it was at first a friendship and eventually they fell in love with each other and she was not very upfront about it at first at least the way i thought but she eventually told me about it she also said that she's sorry about that they only talked and hugged each other and nothing and other than that nothing happened but she's very much in love with this other guy she has the butterfly effects right now we are going to marriage therapy and trying to fix this she has also been going to therapy on her own and another thing that I added is that I'm the sole breadwinner in the relationship I think we have an above average financial situation a nice place where we live we travel around each year doing extreme sports um but the finances has been an ongoing issue between us for many years i'll talk about this later and um personally i think i made a lot of mistakes in a relationship, and i want to fix it but i feel lost and i could use your help and insight yeah.
[2:58] I'm i'm sorry to hear about all of this of course um i mean obviously for you guys in particular for for the kids. So yeah, I mean, that's the intro and I'm here to hear more.
[3:11] So, I've been thinking about what I wrote a couple of days ago, and I think what's crucial and is missing is I have difficulty expressing my feelings. I think that's one of the key points where basically our relationship went down a bit, because I don't speak a lot about what I feel and how I feel. And most of the guys, my friends, I have a lot of kind of loose friends who are considered like people who are preferred to talk to. But I rarely talk about super deep emotional stuff that's going inside me. And I have a difficulty with that. And I also have this difficulty with my wife. And she was basically trying it, finding it difficult to figure out what's going inside me. And, um, I think that's part of the reasons why we started talking less and, um, yeah, I mean, uh, part of it, I think comes from my father who also had, who also has like a similar, I don't know what to call it. I wanted to say personality flaw, but it might be something different.
[4:35] But I'm seeing a similar pattern. And basically, my wife told me also that she's seeing a similar pattern. The way my father behaves, the way I behave is something that she doesn't like, especially regarding this, that I don't talk much about what's going inside me. but it doesn't mean there's nothing it just means that i kind of bury this stuff and um.
[5:06] Yeah oh so when it when when it comes to figuring out i mean expressing joy for instance uh she she's more of this uh enjoying the moment type of girl which personally i like very much that she can express how she feels and uh sometimes i feel it i find it a bit all over the place but, i i enjoy it but even minor stuff like if i have a nice meal in the evening she cooks it for me even if i enjoy it very much she always tells me that i don't look i appreciate it enough so she feels that.
[5:51] Cannot really express what um what going inside me and if i liked it or not and that kind of makes her sad because she doesn't know if if if i like it if i don't like it or if i just don't care, and i think that was that was one of the main issues of this whole situation how this um love of situation evolved is because she's been texting with a lot of people because basically she's a teacher and once once she once we had the child I kind of asked her to stay home so basically we don't have to do daycare I I'm luckily or thanks to my previous work I'm in a good enough financial situation so we don't have to uh she doesn't have to work basically and um i asked her to stay home with the kid but she had a very social life uh before the kid and um.
[6:58] And uh for the first two years i think it was it was working better but the last two years it was more difficult um and she was she felt locked inside the house too much uh so she was missing a lot of adult connections where she can talk with various people uh socialize basically um and i was working a lot during this time so she what she started doing was talking to a lot of different people she went to dance classes and then later to this parkour class or it's more like a gym anyway and I what she was telling me is that I, don't talk to her enough and she feels lonely she's basically.
[7:54] Isolated and she started chatting with other people and at first i wasn't really uh how to say i i i obviously noticed it but i wasn't super um i was kind of happy for it to be honest because she was like she found people she can hang around with others or at least talk to them if she wants So she started establishing her social base, but then it kind of increased in volume, basically by a lot. And I think earlier this year, we had quite a few nights where she was texting on her phone. I was working on my computer, which is in a different room, and when I stopped working and I went to bed, she was still texting on her phone, and she kind of felt that, why don't I bother to talk to her?
[8:58] But then when she told me this, I immediately wanted to fix the problem and basically say that, okay, yeah, sure, I'm sorry, and let's talk about it. But then she was a little bit pissed, basically not pissed, but she wasn't happy that I only tried because she's saying I should be with her. Because if that's the case, then it feels as if I don't want it on my own.
[9:28] And to be honest this made me a bit.
[9:34] More hesitant trying to talk to her and fix the whole thing because on the other side, I was also feeling a bit that she was neglecting what I wanted, basically, which is fixing minor stuff and basically doing less.
[9:57] Sorry, what do you mean by fixing minor stuff?
[10:01] Helping more with housekeeping and general issues around the house or making life here more comfortable. And basically when I come home or when I came home, that was last year, a lot of my time went with doing house chores because I wanted to help her. I felt she was kind of fed up with doing all the house chores on her own, being like this traditional or old school housewife who takes care of the whole place. And I wanted to help her. I didn't want her life to be about cooking or doing the dishes or cleaning or anything like that. So when I came home, I tried to help her doing all these kind of tedious tasks. And this kind of went on for a while.
[11:03] Sorry, but I mean, you have a big house and all of that. So how does the housework get done as a whole?
[11:10] Well, we have a housemaid, a cleaning lady, basically. She comes every two weeks, and she's doing like a— Oh.
[11:16] No, but that's—I mean, that's good for the big house clean, but what about just in general, day-to-day, laundry, dishes, cooking?
[11:26] She does that stuff, right? We do that mixed, basically. She does most of the breakfast mixed. I mean, I do it, and also she does it. So basically, I prefer cooking— I mean.
[11:37] You work in 10, 12 hours a day, aren't you?
[11:42] Yeah.
[11:43] I'm not sure why you would be doing half the work at home and all the work for the income.
[11:51] Yeah, I mean, that's one of the issues that I find difficult to talk about.
[11:58] Why is that difficult to talk about? Because she'll get mad?
[12:05] Yeah, in a way. Well, that's easy.
[12:07] Then, I mean, if she wants you to do half the housework, then she can go and contribute half the income.
[12:14] Yeah, but that's something that I don't necessarily want.
[12:19] No, I know. No, I'm not saying you want that. I'm just saying, but logically, that would be the case, right?
[12:25] Yeah.
[12:30] And that's how reality works, right? I mean, if you want to do less work in one area, then you kind of, I mean, you have to, otherwise you're exploiting someone, right?
[12:40] That's how I felt sometimes. So I'm not really.
[12:43] You know, if you and I are going on a road trip and I don't want to do any of the driving, I at least have to pay for the meals, don't I?
[12:52] Yes.
[12:55] Okay. So I'm sorry. I don't mean to interrupt you. I just wanted to make sure I understood that general approach or thought or where you were with that stuff. So my apologies. Please continue.
[13:07] So in general, my personality is at least what I could figure out on my own is that, uh, I have this tendency of, of taking a lot of burden on myself. I mean, um, that's usually how I work. Uh, and, um, so I saw, I saw this issue of she's not happy with whatever, uh, we have to do on a regular basis.
[13:33] You're a problem solver at work, and so when your wife gives you a problem, you, you know, in good conscience, try to solve it, right?
[13:42] Yes.
[13:43] That makes sense to me. But you don't ask whether the problem is valid. Right.
[13:52] Yeah that's true okay or what the what the true source of the problem is because.
[13:58] Well or whether it's a real problem or whether it's just a complaint, right i mean i'm sure you've had customers over the course of your business career who just complain yeah and the reason they complain is they want to they want free stuff right, yes i mean your wife says that you don't show her enough appreciation for her cooking okay, but does she thank you every day for going to work and making the you know six figures plus that keeps you guys in such an opulent lifestyle, when was the last time she showed appreciation to you for paying all the bills.
[14:43] Well she did a few times but not very.
[14:45] Often sorry a few times over what time period.
[14:49] I don't know.
[14:52] Five years yes you do come on fess up brother how many times well you say a few times a week a day a month a year a decade how often a few times thank you so much for, getting up and going to work and and paying the bills and providing us this wonderful lifestyle and giving me all of this luxury and and and opportunity.
[15:21] How many times? Well, not that many. Maybe five times in ten years.
[15:30] Okay, so if you were to say to her, I will appreciate your cooking once every two years, would she be satisfied with that?
[15:41] Probably not.
[15:42] Well, no, of course not, right?
[15:45] Yes.
[15:46] She would be unhappy with that. so it's odd if she wants appreciation that's fine but if she doesn't want to show appreciation that's so shows a lack of empathy doesn't it.
[16:06] Well she kept telling me that she doesn't need all this so we could have like a quieter life where we don't have this much and maybe work less so we don't have to do this much money, she would be more yeah she basically she told me that she could easily live without all this uh i mean not that we are super rich or something but we have a definitely, yes okay.
[16:35] And what does she want to give up.
[16:43] I mean, that's the thing is that we never really talked about specifics. Like at some point she mentioned me that we don't even need a car, which is something I find totally unrealistic because obviously we have to drive the kid around. We have to do shopping. We do trips and whatnot. So today living without a car is quite a difficult thing to manage.
[17:08] And what about giving up the maid so that she could do more cleaning?
[17:20] Would she want to do that? No, I don't think so.
[17:25] Okay, so what is it? So saying you want less is fine, but at some point you have to actually decide what you want less of, right? Would she want a smaller house?
[17:39] I think she could live with dad, but to be honest, I think we have such an amazing home. I could hardly imagine living it elsewhere. where and also our kid loves it and she put a lot of effort and energy into making this home the way it is because i kind of helped with obviously financing it and also doing the the major construction works but she was the one who who kind of did the final touches so oh yeah no they're fantastic.
[18:07] That way in my.
[18:08] Opinion like just stuff.
[18:10] I would never even think of that.
[18:12] Like this.
[18:13] Is nice this is nice though so good for her for that i appreciate that and that's a that's a lovely thing okay all right i'm sorry you uh you were still talking and i i absolutely want to hear more so please go ahead.
[18:28] So to be honest i'm a bit lost with this whole financial situation because I'm not I'm not sure if my criticism or or or idea or yeah the way I think about it is is fair because I I just kept approaching life in a way that all right if we're partners and she doesn't work she doesn't want to carry this burden then I'll do it hers I do it she doesn't have to uh and i'm fine with that and also just thinking about maybe uh figuring out stuff in different ways that will reduce the burden on her so this is one issue that.
[19:17] I have and it's i think it's not really uh open between us to be honest because i was trying to put everything out in the recent couple of months so we have a lot long uh open conversations about what we do what we did and what we think right now so basically sharing feelings more i put a lot of emphasis on trying to share my feelings uh which obviously is kind of difficult in this situation um but this thing is uh still a bit bit of a mess i the way i usually approach approach a topic like this i'm kind of analytical uh and i start to build stuff from the very foundations obviously that's why i like your show as well uh and um.
[20:09] I find it difficult to talk finances, money, economics, whatever, with others who have a hazy or limited knowledge about the basics.
[20:21] What does she mean? Like if there's stuff she wants you to talk more, does she sort of meet you halfway and say, you talk more and I'll learn more about what you want to talk about?
[20:32] Yes, I had this issue. I kind of offered her that I'm happy to talk about any kind of financial decisions and involve her in it.
[20:44] But I don't want to be the one who's kind of forcing it on her. She has to want it. Basically, that's what I told her, that I'm more than happy to involve her in any kind of financial decisions. And I'm actually grateful if she joins in, because that means I have less issues to bear. I mean, especially stuff regarding, I don't know, investment. At some point, we wanted to buy a piece of land to build a little condo or a place where we can go for a vacation or rent out sometimes. And we had these ideas. We still have, actually. And I was happy to talk about it. Finances, how we put it together. or how to make it work. But I don't want to be the one who's pushing it on her because we also had a few issues with this. We have another idea, which is the place where I am. Education is not the best. Well, I guess it's not very good anywhere on the planet. And we have this idea of making a private school school, uh, and, uh, doing it on a principled way, uh, educating kids, um, because she's a teacher and she's a very good teacher, by the way. So I, I highly.
[22:06] But does she teach right now?
[22:10] Uh, she's giving private English lessons, but not, uh, not full time.
[22:18] Okay. Got it. At how many hours a week does she work?
[22:24] Maybe two.
[22:26] Okay. Two hours a week.
[22:30] Yes.
[22:31] Um, okay.
[22:34] Okay.
[22:35] And, but she's also attending.
[22:36] I mean, she says she's bored, right? And she doesn't have enough interaction with adults. So if she's teaching English, why doesn't she work more than two hours a week?
[22:45] She's also attending a university where she's doing a course because it's not really because she wanted to, but which kind of had to, because the way regulation works over here is you have to have certain papers to be able to open the school.
[22:59] And we have the teaching English part.
[23:02] Yeah. Well, yeah, I mean, she wasn't sure she wanted to do that more, the private lessons, because she's also doing, I mean, people who come to her to study English, they like to talk to her because she's kind of easy to talk to her. she listens and and uh and uh she's also doing kind of uh not not counseling or i don't know how to call it but but she's basically having good conversation with with people especially teenagers who who have various issues their lives so she's connecting with this age group pretty well but it also is a bit of a energy drain on her so that's why she was doing she wasn't doing more than two or three hours a day a week and she wasn't she she wasn't sure this is what she wanted to do so she wasn't advertising herself, as as an English teacher as a private teacher basically because she was she was not that much into it.
[24:21] Sorry, she's not that much into what?
[24:24] Into doing private lessons with teenagers or adults, basically. So she wasn't really into doing private English courses or not courses. Basically, these are usually one-hour sessions where she's teaching English to either young adults or teenagers.
[24:50] Got it. Okay. And sorry, just remind me how she does the therapy stuff, the counseling stuff, or the, I don't know exactly what, coaching stuff?
[24:58] What she's doing is she's doing, I think that's what you call, that's a normal therapy every two weeks. And we're also doing a sort of marriage counseling or therapy every two weeks as well. We have been doing that for about two or three months at this point.
[25:16] Sorry, I thought she was doing some coaching with her students or something like that. Maybe I misunderstood that.
[25:22] I think it was my language that was a bit misleading. But she also wants to do that. She wants to be a coach. I think she would be actually a pretty good one. But it's currently just a plan. Because I think that's my other issue. I find it difficult to figure out what she wants to do. because there are a lot of stuff that she wants to do. There are a lot of stuff that she doesn't want to do. And I'm not sure at this point what her plan is regarding this.
[25:55] Why only one child?
[25:58] Um yeah basically why 20.
[26:01] Years and right and only one child again i'm not some big criticism could be lots of medical reasons i'm just curious.
[26:10] Um well we kind of uh started dating very early if she was about 16 i was 20 uh so that was 20 years ago and um for the first part of our relationship was pretty uh pretty hectic because, um basically the way we we came together i was traveling a lot and when i was traveling after doing my secondary school i was abroad and there was this very sad accident that happened a very good friend of mine died in a car crash and it was a mutual friend of ours and then i, was living in london at that time and i came back home and um uh that's when we started seeing each other now that was a bit of an issue how we started dating on my end at least because she she is basically the daughter or not the daughter sorry the sister of um a very good friend of mine so i was basically having a good time with her brother and then eventually we started seeing each other we talked a lot because of our mutual loss and um yeah we started dating and then it turned into our relationship but i had a lot of you started.
[27:38] Dating at 16 when she was 16 and you were 20 but you knew her before that because she was the sister of your friend?
[27:46] Yes, I knew her a little bit for about one or two years. Yes.
[27:51] Okay.
[27:54] Yes. And I was just very kind of shy and introvert.
[28:00] Sorry, and I apologize for that. Just interrupting, I just wanted to understand, because I'm always kind of curious about this. Like, how is it that people end up being able to travel? Because travel is pretty expensive, right? Travel living in other places. So how is it that you were able to, at 20, after post-secondary, you said, how is it that you, were you working traveling? Were you, you know, for attractive women, so, you know, the sinister meme is, you know, this is how they travel. It's basically trading sex. Maybe you were good looking enough for that, but how did you, uh, how did you pay for all this travel?
[28:29] Um, so basically when I finished my secondary school, I applied for a job. Uh, it, it was called back then. Um, there was this option to apply for, uh, a so-called student visa to work in London. And that's what I did where I was learning English and, uh, it allowed me to work part time. So I could basically do a part-time job and learn English. But besides that, my parents are also kind of upper middle class. And my father was kind of generous enough that he paid for the initial.
[29:05] Okay, you can start with that.
[29:09] Yeah, I mean, but it helped a lot.
[29:11] So he paid for what?
[29:13] He paid for the first part of me moving into London. And so basically, he gave me money, which was good enough to cover my flight costs and also to find a place. And after that...
[29:30] So how much did he give you?
[29:35] About two or three times the average salary at that time.
[29:41] Sorry, he gave you two or three times the average salary?
[29:45] That was a one-time sum. That was just a one-time sum just to make sure that I...
[29:50] Tens of thousands of euros, 100,000 euros, 50,000 euros.
[29:53] No, no, no, no, no, no, no, not that much. It was back then, I think it was maybe 5,000 or 7,000 euros.
[30:00] Okay. So, I mean, that answers my question as to how you were able to do that. I'm not saying you didn't work, of course, right? But without that, you wouldn't have been able to do it, right? And it's not a criticism. I'm always just kind of curious, like how, hey, I went traveling. I'm like, but how? I would have loved to have gone traveling, but I had to work for 60 hours a week. So anyway, go on.
[30:19] There are other people who do it without financial help. I mean, they did it back then. It was possible. It was a lot more difficult, but it was possible.
[30:28] So obviously, it's much- I understand that. that i but i i never know whether they're telling the truth that people oh i did it all on my own it turns out it's like well you know but i did have a credit card for emergencies yeah i mean you know like there's always something where you know or it's a pretty girl basically traveling around um romantically or whatever and i'm not saying it's impossible right i've traveled you know where you know i've traveled throughout belize and mexico and guatemala where it was like 10 bucks a night for a flop house so i get that i get that it's just uh, It's not common for sure, and by far the most common thing is parents. And listen, I'm not, hey, good for you. I mean, I'm glad you had that experience. I just always have this kind of curiosity about it. It doesn't diminish anything you did, but it's, I mean, heavily subsidized, which is not bad. I'm just curious about that kind of stuff. Okay. All right. So you were, sorry, and I apologize because I interrupted you for my own personal agenda. Sorry about that.
[31:30] No worries.
[31:30] When you were talking about being shy and withdrawn at that age.
[31:36] Yes. Basically, I had one girlfriend before my wife. And that was kind of a similar situation where I was super shy and into myself. And she kind of pushed herself on me in a little bit. So she kind of picked me up.
[31:55] Oh, the 16-year-old girl.
[31:57] No, no, no. No, that was before my wife.
[31:59] Oh, the other girlfriend before. Sorry about that.
[32:00] Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And I kind of couldn't really handle the situation at first. I obviously enjoyed that there was this girl chasing after me, but I didn't really enjoy the time with her, and I was kind of mixed in my head of what's going on. I had this feeling of...
[32:21] Sorry, how old was the girl, and why do you think she was chasing you? And I'm not saying you're not worthy of chasing. I'm just curious what the reasons were for you.
[32:29] I was about 17 or 18, and she was, I think, a year older than me. And we were kind of friends at first, so this was the friend zone. And then, yeah, it kind of turned into this romance where she was kind of... pushing a bit more and i kind of enjoy i mean i had a weird relationship with girls i wasn't this pickup artist or a guy who usually gets the girls in the clubs i was usually the guy who who is quiet and doesn't talk much and uh and to me it was appealing that somebody came to me and and uh.
[33:15] Okay would you say that as a young man you were good looking.
[33:20] I find it difficult to judge but yeah in general yeah i would say.
[33:24] Okay so were you athletic yes okay so you're a good-looking athletic young man from a wealthy family and you're like curious as to why these girls might be chasing you, yeah am i am i missing something i mean it's a little obvious isn't it.
[33:44] Yeah i mean but back then to me it wasn't i mean right.
[33:47] Now you have generous parents who will forward you you know six seven thousand euros to to go travel, yes would be the equivalent probably i'm thinking of about 25 30 oh no this would be a long time fair time ago so this would be like somebody handing me 30 000 or something like that probably in today's money or $35,000 Canadian dollars to get my start in travel, right? Which would, you know, keep you traveling for quite a long time.
[34:16] Yes.
[34:16] So you have generous, concerned parents with a lot of money and you are athletic and good looking and the shy thing works for a lot of girls. So I'm not saying you did it as a move or anything, but it does nonetheless.
[34:35] Yeah. I, to be honest, I'm not a hundred percent sure why it was like that. I know that.
[34:40] Why, what was like what? It's very ambiguous, brother.
[34:44] I'm sorry. Why, why I couldn't really understand my sexual market value. So basically where I couldn't.
[34:52] Well, no, because your parents hadn't prepared you for that.
[34:55] Right.
[34:56] Right? I mean, your parents didn't say to you, look, you know, you're a good looking kid. And, you know, obviously, we're wealthy. And there are a lot of girls who are looking to settle down with, you know, a nice guy. And so you're going to have to keep your wits about you. Some women might be more interested in you for the money. And, you know, it's the same conversation that dads need to have with good looking daughters, right? Which is, you know, there's going to be some guys who are going to be interested in you primarily for your looks. And you're going to have to figure out a way to sort that out because that's not a great way to found a marriage you know that kind of stuff right yeah.
[35:32] Well it never happened.
[35:34] So your parents didn't didn't talk to you and and sorry this is an old aristocratic thing as well which is that if if you have family wealth and i'm not saying you know you're the rockefellas or anything but if you have family wealth then you need to talk to your children to make sure that they don't end up with people who might pillage that family wealth, who might be in it for the money, right?
[36:03] Yeah. Well, I mean, my father is nothing like that. He made a lot of money throughout his years. He still actually works and has a very, very good income, but he never really cared about keeping it. so right now it's me who is handling the family portfolio so i was actually the one who said all right enough is enough because they are spending a lot of money on stuff that i think is not really necessary uh and i don't obviously it's their money so whatever but i don't want.
[36:38] Well no just no no as a parent it's not just your money it's not just your money because you have a legacy right i mean if you can build the kind of wealth that can give your kids more options and choices that's a positive thing right yes so it's not just their money and the reason being that that you sacrifice some part of your children's childhood in order to make that money so your children in a sense pay for the money by having less access to their parents which is not I mean, because they got to know, they got to grow up knowing what it's like to work. But it's not just your money, because it's family money, right? And your kids, it changes your kids' lives enormously.
[37:27] If you have some money, right? I mean, the younger kids can't really afford even condos, let alone houses. But if you have some money, maybe you can help them out a bit. And that can get their start in life. It matters how quickly they can have children or how slowly or it matters who might be attracted to them. It gives them a sense of confidence. They have a soft place to land. There's a cushion, you know. But at the same time, it can also be demotivating because maybe they don't feel like all those Instagram kids who, you know, just show pictures of them flying off to Dubai and stuff. Like, it's kind of demotivating to hard work. And so, it's a complicated legacy, but it's not just the parents' money. It is if you don't have kids, but once you have kids, it's the family money. And so, it has such a profound effect on your children, both potentially very positive and potentially very negative, that it's not independent of. It's sort of like saying, well, I can choose to smoke because they're my lungs. And it's like, okay, if I live alone, I suppose I can. If I live with a woman who doesn't smoke, then it affects her. And I don't have the choice to inflict that on my kids. And to me, it's the same thing with finances. Oh, it's just my lungs. It's like, no, no, it's a big effect on the family and could be the case, if sensibly managed, for generations, right?
[38:45] Yes, I agree.
[38:47] So, sorry for that tiny lecture. So, tell me a little bit about your father's connection with you, and also tell me, I have a guess in my mind and heart, that your mother is very pretty, or was when she was younger.
[39:05] Uh she wasn't super pretty my father had uh two marriages so basically he came from a pretty poor village um and he was one of the first from his generation who went to a university and he had higher education and he became um he had a very good job at an early age but his first marriage was uh didn't work out basically what happened in his first marriage actually it's interesting thing i just recently talked about this with him because my wife kept telling kept telling me that it's so weird that i know that i don't know what really happened with my father and his first marriage and i think she she was perfectly right about that and um i had this conversation with my father recently um and he told me that he was basically as a young uh country boy living in the city he had no money and uh he had some income and he had a girl who was interested interested in her.
[40:13] But he didn't really he wasn't really in love he had a girl who was interested in her you mean he was interested in him i'm sorry i'm sorry okay got it it was it was my mistake so basically there was this girl who was interested in my father and my father wasn't in love with this girl but he was thinking about just settling down and.
[40:35] It seemed like a good opportunity and uh the two of them got married because it also helped them with getting finances for uh i think a flat or a home basically so in this way, uh he was basically trying to get a place where they could live and then he was thinking ahead that they will figure out the the living together and the relationship part later but, uh what my father told me that uh his first five became uh like alcoholic and um they had a very, bad relationship after a few years that's what he told me that he she wasn't but uh towards the end of their marriage they were married for six years she she drunk more and more and then eventually they divorced and.
[41:35] Sorry just just so i understand this did he have any children from that first marriage.
[41:39] No okay.
[41:41] And did his wife work i.
[41:45] Don't know that right.
[41:50] Okay right because women are designed to have a conveyor belt to kids right it.
[41:55] Yes and.
[41:58] You know sort of in the modern world we don't give them that, we give the.
[42:05] Maids and.
[42:05] Maybe one kid and they get bored.
[42:13] Yeah i mean.
[42:14] If you had to swap your life with your wife's life how would you feel.
[42:25] It's difficult to imagine.
[42:27] No, it's not. Because some parts, you know her life very, very well. Right? So you wake up in the morning, right? You got a little bit of stuff to do here and there. Your kid goes off to school, right? You got six or seven hours. What are you doing? No work.
[42:46] Yeah, I would be bored, to be honest.
[42:48] Right. And when people are bored, what do they do? you.
[42:52] Yeah start doing.
[42:57] Whatever makes them.
[42:59] Feel good yeah i.
[43:00] Mean particularly women as a whole right so that's why i was kind of asking about, you your your father and his wife like did she did she start drinking because she was bored.
[43:16] Could be, but I don't know.
[43:20] Okay. So, sorry, go ahead.
[43:23] And then my father divorced, uh, his first wife and then, uh, very, I mean, he was a bit nervous because of his age back then he was 38 and he, he had this alarm of, all right, I have to settle down and have a family. Otherwise I might get too old. and I think a year or two later I apologize.
[43:49] So he didn't get married to his first wife until he was in his 30s? Were they together for six years?
[43:53] Yes, I think so So why.
[43:56] What did he do before that? Man has needs, right?
[44:02] He was working Yeah, you mean girl, I don't know I have no information.
[44:06] We never talked about that But did he have your girlfriend before he got married?
[44:10] Yeah, I mean I'm pretty sure he had But I don't know Okay. And then after they divorced, he met my mother, I think, two years later. And they dated for a half a year, and then they married. And I have a younger brother who's about a year and a half older than me.
[44:32] I'm sorry, what's the age difference if there is one between your mother and your father?
[44:39] 10 years.
[44:40] 10 years?
[44:42] Yes.
[44:43] Okay. Okay. so yeah I'm sorry I mean the proportion is actually quite similar between you and in terms of percentage right, 40 to 30 ain't that different from 20 to 16 right.
[45:01] Yeah, if you consider just the ratio, it grew faster.
[45:07] It's a quarter and a fifth or something like that. Okay, so what about your father did he fall in love with regarding your mother? What did he love about her or does he?
[45:25] It's interesting because my father never talked about that. what he mentioned a couple of times he he rarely ever talks about this or his feelings uh what he mentioned was a bit scary to me uh because what he mentioned was that he just wanted to basically have a family and it sounded as if my mother was just a vessel for that uh and why is that why.
[45:53] Is Is that scary?
[45:57] Because I thought that...
[46:01] I'm not disagreeing with you. I just want to make sure I understand why.
[46:04] I thought that they should have... I mean, he should have chosen her partner or his partner better based on basically why they would have like... They should have a good relationship first.
[46:17] Okay, so on what standards... And again, I'm not disagreeing with you. I just want to make sure I understand your thinking. what standards does your father have used to choose his wife?
[46:34] I think one of them was that uh she was she was also kind of old uh and not married which was kind of rare at that time yes my mom was 30 when no she was i think 28 when they got married but back then obviously that was a pretty late age okay and my brother when my brother was born She was maybe 29-ish or something. And when I was born, she was in her early 30s, which was ridiculously old back then.
[47:10] Okay, so your father was in his late 30s and your mother was in her late 20s?
[47:14] Yes.
[47:14] Okay. And do you know anything about your mother's life before your father chose her?
[47:23] No.
[47:24] Really?
[47:24] Barely anything. Yeah.
[47:26] Like what she did with her teens and twenties?
[47:31] I mean, I know her studies and where she grew up in the city and, but not like relationships or, uh, friends. I knew, I know what she did. They, when I was growing up, they talked a lot about professional stuff. like they have a lot of common colleagues and people they know and they talked about them but never really talked about any kind of relationship or or um sorry.
[48:02] Did she did she work in her 20s.
[48:03] Yes okay.
[48:05] And what does she.
[48:06] Work as uh she was um she was a bookkeeper i mean it was back then it was a socialist place here so it was a bit different than what you might expect so these big, corporate it was not like a corporation these were like institutions which were owned by the central government but operated by peoples locally obviously you cannot centrally uh command or operate uh everything so these were local not businesses but basically institutions and then Then she was doing bookkeeping and financial consulting for them, how to make the books and stuff. They had a very good time. I mean, she had a very good time because she has an easygoing personality. And yeah, she was more like helping these businesses and these... Not businesses, but I keep using this word anyway. way uh anyway so she was helping these institutions uh like farms or uh or um uh yeah mostly farms cattle farms and they gave her a lot of uh free stuff and parties it was a good time for them and that's through one of these parties did they met with my father okay.
[49:31] So your father had a bigger career, I assume, than your mother.
[49:38] Yes, that's correct.
[49:39] So, a man in his late 30s, what would he want with a woman, In her late 20s.
[49:49] Kids, obviously.
[49:50] Yeah, so he chooses her, and there's nothing wrong with this. I'm just, this is the basic transaction that we're all here for, right? I mean, men have an excess of resources, and they need women to have kids. So they provide their excess resources to women who have an excess of fertility, in a sense, relative to the man who can't have kids on their own, right? So she can't have kids without his resources. He can't have kids without her womb. so he trades his resources for her womb. And, you know, I know this sounds all kind of cold and livestock-y and calculated, but it is why we're all here. It wasn't like every human being for the past couple of million years got together entirely based on platonic virtues, right?
[50:34] Yes.
[50:34] So he got together with your mom to have a family. Because, you know, when a man gets into his 30s, especially if he's made some money, he starts thinking about his legacy, right? What's all this money for? well the money is for that's why why are men so productive the money is for a family, that's what it's for that's why we that's why we make money right there's only so many comforts you can have or as napoleon said like you can only eat one excellent meal at dinner and it can only cost so much so so your father traded his excess resources for a woman's fertility and And of course, I'm not saying your parents didn't have virtues together and all of that, but I mean, that's the basic transaction. Because if your mother was a male, he wouldn't have transferred all these resources to her, right?
[51:26] Yes.
[51:26] I mean, well, you know, some guy in his late 30s is not going to start becoming best buds with some guy in his late 20s, because, you know, it's too much difference life experience and so on, right?
[51:38] Yes.
[51:38] Okay. Unless it's a mentor situation, in which case his goal is to transfer not just resources, but wisdom or something like that, right? Okay, so, and your mother's easygoing, right?
[51:55] Or what yes i mean she still kind of is but when i was growing up especially when i started, dating and looking at girls so basically after i after 10 or something like that so when i went into puberty and then into my teenage years it was it was a super weird experience for me and also for my brother uh and between between uh our mothers basically so me and my brother had this weird relationship with our mothers because she was very that's plural i'm sorry i'm sorry okay i just want to be sure if.
[52:33] There was a stepmom in there.
[52:34] Or something okay no no no no no but i just wanted to check sorry go ahead i'm sorry that's fine that listen that's.
[52:39] Totally fine i i can't tell you how much i respect people who speak a second language so i have no issues with whatsoever you you have my deep admiration because i can't do it to save my life i know 19 computer languages and not one decent second language so sorry go.
[52:52] Ahead anyway so our mother uh made us a really difficult or hard time when we started dating because she tried to push away all the girlfriends that we took home i didn't have that many basically i slept with one girl and i had i think two or three girlfriends all together not even girlfriends friends just girls who i took home maybe two or three and then the same number with my brother but yeah our mother was very difficult when it came to this so she was kind of almost like mean to these girls like she kept asking stuff like hey why are you here again uh and so very very Very rude stuff.
[53:40] And obviously...
[53:42] Well, hang on, hang on. So, I don't know about the rude thing. I mean, you could be right, of course. You know the situation infinitely better, but that's kind of a judgment or a conclusion. And if your judgments and conclusions were correct, you wouldn't be calling me. yes so you know and if it's any consolation i do this with myself as well so so she she would say sort of why are you here she'd be a little negative or or hostile towards the girls you brought home yes and let's throw aside the rudeness thing which again you could be right about but why do you think she did that i'm.
[54:15] Not sure but i suppose that she was very sad with her relationship with my father and she was kind of afraid that she will lose us, basically. BJP would be just with other girls, and I think she was not ready to let us go. That's my assumption.
[54:37] Hmm. How well would you say you understand women? How much just seems inexperient to you?
[54:49] A lot. Okay.
[54:50] I was just wondering if we had the same evaluation of that. Okay. so we could you can you could be right about all of this i don't know but what was going on with her relationship with your father you said she was very unhappy right.
[55:05] She never liked that my father was a bit cold and my father.
[55:11] Sorry what do you mean she never liked i mean she married i'm sorry two kids with him she must have liked it at some point.
[55:18] I mean my father for sure but not this kind of personality type of or not maybe not type but this.
[55:25] Aspect of him i mean if i if i spend 10 years looking for a just the right car and then i finally buy the car and bring it home is it fair for me to say i don't like the car.
[55:38] Yeah you're right but what i tried to say was that she didn't like this aspect of him and.
[55:45] This well but she married him and she had children with him yes and she you said she was Just fairly attractive, right?
[55:55] Yes.
[55:56] Okay. So she didn't have some weird thing wrong with her that completely crushed her options, right?
[56:03] That's correct.
[56:03] Okay. So she's an attractive young woman. She's easygoing, pleasant, and so on, right? And she's, I guess, got a job. So, you know, she's got some basic competence. She could learn bookkeeping and do that job and all of that, right?
[56:16] Yes.
[56:17] So she had options. So she was probably holding out for a guy who made more money. I don't know, obviously. I'm just guessing, right? And then when she met the guy who made more money, then she got to bypass the struggle phase, right? So you said your father was like from a poor village. He was totally a self-made man, right?
[56:37] Yes.
[56:39] So his struggle phase, and I mean, I know this very well, the struggle phase is you come from nothing and you try to make something of yourself, right?
[56:50] Yes.
[56:51] Now, by the time your father was in his late 30s... He'd already made something of himself.
[57:00] Yes.
[57:01] And so she wasn't around for the 20 years of his struggle phase. Where he, you know, listen, if you come from nothing and you're trying to make something of yourself, it's really hard.
[57:15] You don't know what to say. You might have a weird accent. You don't know what to do. You don't know the social niceties. It's like moving to Japan, going from poor to upper middle class. It's like moving to Japan. hand you don't know why any of the rituals are where do you put your shoes why is everyone sitting on the floor like wealthy people or you know at least upper middle class people would say wealthy people they they have all of their own ways of doing things and they they're very good at scanning for the nouveau riche the new rich right and so it's it's hard to go from nothing to something and it's a big struggle and it takes a lot of concentration a lot of effort you feel a lot of insecurity and you have to really will yourself forward sometimes when it just feels like you're saying everything wrong or doing everything wrong or whatever, right? So, I mean, I remember being in one of my first business presentations at a big bank. I finished doing the presentation up at the projector. I had no idea whether to sit down or not. I had no idea. Do I just stand up there?
[58:17] Or do I sit down? And finally, you know, my business partner wrote a note, pushed it across to me and says, the sit down exclamation mark, right? I didn't know whether I'm supposed to sit down or not. It's just silly things like that, right? But they're all over the place, especially if you grew up without a father. So your father had already passed his struggle phase.
[58:39] So for a woman, if she waits, right? This is the edge game that women play, right? These days. Is that the longer she waits, the more likely she is to know for certain the man can make money.
[58:54] And the older man she chooses, like if your mom is choosing your dad, and she's in her late 20s, he's in his late 30s, if he's broke, he's a loser, right? He's not going to make any money. If he's made his money, she's already bypassed the struggle phase, and she doesn't have to help him through that phase. She doesn't have to give him counsel and comfort. She doesn't have to encourage him, and she knows it succeeds. Does that make sense?
[59:21] Yeah.
[59:22] So she would have waited until a man was successful and single, right? So then the woman has to ask the question, I assume your dad's reasonably attractive too, right?
[59:41] Yeah, he was, I mean, obviously.
[59:44] Now he's what?
[59:46] He's not anymore. I mean, he's an old man now, but he was.
[59:49] Because you can be an old man and still reasonably attractive. But, so, then the woman has to say, well, why is this old guy, sorry, why is this guy in his 30s, why is he single? And so, you have to usually recognize that either he's single because he's just the greatest guy in the known universe and nobody else has been able to see his value, or he's got some flaws that make him less attractive to other women, which is why he's not been snapped up, so to speak, if that makes sense. I mean, a lot of men are kind of passive in relationships. Like if the woman, you know this from the girl who pursued you when she was 18 and you were 17. Like it's kind of nice and it's not too bad when the woman does all the work, right?
[1:00:35] Yes.
[1:00:37] So why hasn't some woman snapped him up? Well, there's some reason. And so she got to bypass the struggle phase. And so there would be less pair bonding. right because if the man's already achieved his goals or he's already achieved his wealth he knows deep down that every woman who wants him wants him because he's passed to some degree wants him because he's passed the struggle phase and his income is is certain now does this make sense yes you know you you get together with some entrepreneur in his early or mid-20s i mean he's He's working 16 hours a day. You know, like 80% of businesses fail within the first couple of years. I mean, it could be a huge mess. You could end up bankrupt or in debt. You know, you could end up getting sued by, you know, whatever. Like, it could be just a big, horrible mess. But your dad's gone through all of that, and he's made his money, and he's comfortable. So she gets to pick from guys who've already proven their worth, but everything comes with a price. And the price is, there's less pair bonding.
[1:01:46] There's less pride, because she didn't participate in the struggle. She's like the lifeguard giving mouth-to-mouth resuscitation to the guy three days after he almost drowned. It's like, we don't really need this, right? And another one of the problems is that by waiting until the guy's already made his money, she has to accept that there will probably be some personality flaws, that were one of the reasons why he was still single and wealthy in his late 30s. Does that make sense? yes so for a woman to get all of the benefits of leaping right over the struggle phase of 20 years right 18 to 38 20 years that your father was dragging his ass out of poverty first guy to go to college right first guy to have a professional gig first guy to make some real coin so for 20 years your dad is dragging his ass out of this bowels of poverty and then she comes along and she just, you know, she runs the last five meters of the race and considers herself an Olympian, right? And so, then to complain about the guy, well, he's got these flaws, it's like, well, yes! Because if he didn't have these flaws, he would have been married, and you wouldn't be able to access his money.
[1:03:05] He's kind of quirky. Yes, that's why he was still on the market. it. Sorry. It's just kind of funny to me that women want to bypass the entire struggle phase and then don't want a guy who's at all quirky. Of course, otherwise, if he was a perfect guy, he'd have been married long ago, and he wouldn't be available. The only guys who are available in their late 30s are the quirky guys.
[1:03:29] And then, oh, he's just quirky. That's a problem. It's like, yes, but you chose to bypass the struggle phase of 20 years, and there's a price to be paid for that which is quirkiness sorry about that i feel quite strongly about this but anyway go on.
[1:03:42] Yeah so i mean what happened during our teenage years was kind of this experience that she she wasn't really my mother i mean my mother wasn't really happy about us, me and my brother taking girls home, so we didn't. And we also never really talked about what, at least back home, we never really talked about what a relationship should be, how we should...
[1:04:15] I'm so sorry to interrupt you again, because I now remember why I went on that rant. It's coming back to me, and I'll keep it brief. So your mother is old school, right?
[1:04:26] Yes.
[1:04:27] Okay, so old school, in the old world, in the old sort of, you know, old world, did mother-in-laws have a lot of power?
[1:04:39] Uh, yeah, I suppose.
[1:04:41] Yes, they did, right? They kind of ran the roost. They ran the nest, right? And we can say good or bad, right or wrong, but, you know, it certainly is, as they say, what it is, right? So your mother would have been dominant with your girlfriends to establish her dominance in case you married her, married the girlfriend, right? She would be establishing her dominance, that she's in charge, that they have to please her, and they can marry the kids, but they can marry her sons, but the condition is that that they bow down to her. That's usually kind of the old school stuff with mothers-in-law. Does this make any sense?
[1:05:15] Yes.
[1:05:16] Right, so you're like, oh, but she didn't want us to go, and blah, blah, blah. Maybe there's a part of that, but in general, your mother would have faced some social criticism if her kids didn't get married. So she did want the kids to get married, but she also wanted to stay in charge of the family. And that happens in part so that values and culture can be, transferred and so on but i'm not sure that it's just about this semi-incestuous hanging onto her sons but probably more about establishing a dominance over potential daughters-in-law.
[1:05:54] Could be yeah i'm i mean i i only have theories about this uh.
[1:06:00] Well did any of the daughters-in-law say hey your mom oh sorry did any of your girlfriends say hey your mom's kind of rude and bossy what's up with that yes okay and did those relationships work out.
[1:06:14] I mean even my current even my wife said that uh that um she had a very bad first experience with my mom um and i was trying to talk with my mom many times back then and i was telling her that it's very bad for me, and I don't like it, and please stop it. Yeah, she said she's doing her best, basically.
[1:06:41] Oh, so your mother did admit fault, but wasn't able to change much?
[1:06:48] Eventually she did, but it took a couple of years.
[1:06:50] Oh, eventually she became nicer?
[1:06:52] Yes.
[1:06:53] Okay, got it.
[1:06:55] Yes. So it was, I think, probably three or four years, maybe, altogether. But during that time, we never had like girlfriends all the time in our house. So maybe I had one and then for a longer time, nobody. And then my brother.
[1:07:15] You know, you've come home. My mom's a bit of a battle X.
[1:07:18] I kind of did. Yes. Yeah. So, and I had this bad feeling of taking anyone home. I was like, we had a nice home and it was, it was pretty good. We had our very nice different rooms. It was private, quiet, so it was obviously a good place, but not with the parents.
[1:07:37] How was your dad with your girlfriends?
[1:07:40] He was ignorant, mostly.
[1:07:43] What does that mean, ignorant? That's a big, big white word.
[1:07:47] He didn't really care. And he was like, at some point, he didn't even want to be part of it in a way that he was like, as long as it's not kind of serious, just do whatever you want. And let me know when you're basically more serious about it. But he never said this. This isn't just my assumption. I had one experience when I took a girl home. It was her first time. My father just said hello, basically, just to be polite, and then went into his study room, and he kind of disappeared.
[1:08:24] So you were supposed to figure out which girls were suitable without any feedback from your father.
[1:08:30] Yes, that's correct.
[1:08:32] What the hell?
[1:08:32] Never had any.
[1:08:36] But so he says what when it gets serious but how does he know that it's the right girl to get serious with he just trusts you in your teens.
[1:08:47] Yes we basically.
[1:08:48] We never know teenage boys are always objective about what kind of girls are the right ones to marry yes.
[1:08:54] That's a good source of information.
[1:08:56] Yeah yeah absolutely uh i can't hear you above the tsunami hormones, but all right. Okay, so your father abandoned his parenting responsibilities in this area for sure.
[1:09:05] Yes, that's correct.
[1:09:08] Why?
[1:09:09] Yeah, so I don't know. I have only...
[1:09:15] Yes, you do. Yes, you do. Yes, you do. Yes, you do. Nice try, though. You've heard enough of these calls to know that that doesn't work, but it's nice to hear people still try. I appreciate your optimism. I really do. So why did your father not talk to you about your girlfriends?
[1:09:29] Because he didn't want to face his own past. Basically why he chose my mom. That's a very generic answer.
[1:09:36] Can you be a tiny bit more specific?
[1:09:41] He wasn't happy with his own choices in his past with my mom or either his previous.
[1:09:50] So there's nothing wrong with that. I mean, we all have things that we're unhappy about in our past, and that's why we teach our children better, right? I dated around too much when I was younger, so I'm trying to give better advice to my kid, right?
[1:10:04] Yes, that's correct.
[1:10:08] So why didn't he give you the benefit of his wisdom?
[1:10:14] Maybe he didn't have any.
[1:10:16] Any wisdom?
[1:10:18] Regarding choosing the right partner.
[1:10:21] Well, he would have known about things he was unhappy about regarding your mom, right?
[1:10:31] I always thought that he kind of buried these feelings. so he kind of buried it deep inside him so he doesn't have to face it.
[1:10:39] Sorry, by that do you mean that he didn't know that he was unhappy with your mom? He had no idea.
[1:10:47] What I would say, rather, is that...
[1:10:49] Perhaps the lie detector test about whether he's unhappy with your mom?
[1:10:54] I think he just focused on being a good provider instead of...
[1:11:00] He tried to satisfy her in basically with money and goods and giving a good life.
[1:11:11] Well, at least we broke that pattern.
[1:11:14] He said sarcastically.
[1:11:17] Yeah. Alright. So... Was, did he, did he ever express any unhappiness regarding your mother?
[1:11:31] There, there were a few things that he never liked. My mom is a kind of collector of goods. So she does a lot of shopping and bought, I don't know how many stuff. So, I mean, she has crazy amount of cloth and shoes and whatnot. night and it was always bothering my father that he kept saying that no matter how big our house is she will fill it up immediately um so that was that was one thing and also my father was very dominant in public conversations so he, i'd never really liked how i know there were some places where i didn't like how he treated my mom so, yeah in this regard he wasn't treating her as kind of equal or as a partner more like, like someone who's, who's under him in certain ways.
[1:12:43] Well I mean I mean, if she's acting irresponsibly, though, it's kind of hard to treat someone as an equal if they're acting irresponsibly, right? I mean, if somebody wants a drunk drive, you've got to take their keys away, right?
[1:12:54] Yes, that's correct.
[1:12:55] So it may not be entirely his fault.
[1:13:01] Okay. I mean, the shopping.
[1:13:03] So he can shop. She overshops. What else?
[1:13:06] Yes.
[1:13:10] And I think, I mean, there was a point where we moved from, we had a very nice flat in the city, but it was kind of small. And they decided that we should buy a bigger house in the suburbs. And it was a big financial burden because, yeah, it was quite a big home and they kind of wanted to make it happen. happened and my mom back at that time uh both me and my brother were already in school so my mom was working full-time as well and my father wanted my mom to help with um with the finances regarding the new home but she couldn't and uh at some point sorry.
[1:13:58] I don't understand she was working but she couldn't contribute any income.
[1:14:00] Yes i don't follow well i mean she just she just kept spending all her money on uh some of it on us so basically she bought food and cloth for us but she never really could save uh and and contribute to and it was an ongoing um it was an ongoing debate between them because my father told her at that point that all right i'll pay for all the investment into the new house so buying the basically financing the the construction, and she should only pay the the utility bills which was obviously a lot smaller sum and at some point she kind of gave up that as well because she said it's way too much and she She cannot handle it. My father was making more money, so that was...
[1:14:54] Sorry, your father's making enough to pay for a family of four, and your mom is not making enough to pay the utility bills?
[1:15:03] Yeah. I mean, she was. She was just spending it faster than she could make it.
[1:15:09] Okay. So your mother made a commitment... And then didn't keep it.
[1:15:20] Yes, that's correct.
[1:15:22] And your father did what?
[1:15:25] He took over her commitment.
[1:15:27] Right. Okay. So it's this funny kind of weakness that's going on in the males in your family that I find kind of tough to follow. why do you think the men are a little, I don't know, a little spineless or something?
[1:15:55] Like, okay, well, you said you'd pay the bills, and now you're not paying the bills, so I'll just pay the bills.
[1:16:06] I don't know. But to be honest, I also consider it a weakness, and I was thinking about it a lot.
[1:16:10] Oh, no, I wasn't excluding you from this general pattern. Right, because it's pretty easy to get your mom to stop spending money on crap and pay the bills, right? Do you know how to do that?
[1:16:23] Yeah, just tell her that we're not moving or something.
[1:16:26] No, no, so let's say you move and she agrees to pay the utilities, right?
[1:16:30] Yeah.
[1:16:30] And then she doesn't pay the utilities, right?
[1:16:33] Yeah.
[1:16:34] So how do you get her to pay the utilities?
[1:16:42] I mean, give her an ultimatum that either she pays for it.
[1:16:47] Nope. Okay, well, what would have happened if your father hadn't paid the mortgage?
[1:16:55] Yeah, I mean, you get your asses banged out on the street.
[1:16:59] It's not like California, right?
[1:17:00] Yes.
[1:17:01] Okay, so what happens if your mother doesn't pay the utilities is there's no electricity in the house.
[1:17:08] Yes, that's correct.
[1:17:10] So that's pretty easy, right? You just, yay, here's the final notice. You've got to pay these utilities. Well, I don't have the money. Well, you've got to figure it out, right? You're a bookkeeper, right? You know this shit. Go pay the bill. I don't have the money. Well, you're going to have to figure it out. Maybe you can sell some of these clothes. Maybe you can, I don't know, but you've got to figure it out, right? And you treat her like an adult, in the same way that the bank treats your dad like an adult. Don't pay your mortgage, you don't get to keep the house. So it's pretty easy, isn't it?
[1:17:51] And if your dad needs electricity and the electricity is off in the house, then he takes you and your brother and goes to a hotel until your mother figures out how to get the electricity turned back on. He treats her like an adult, right? He doesn't shield her like she's some retarded kid. Am I missing something? Maybe I'm missing something. But if somebody makes a commitment, they've got to keep their commitment.
[1:18:18] otherwise you're treating them like a worse than a child i mean parents expect adults to keep their commitments don't they yes sorry parents expect kids to keep their commitments and so it's a okay great okay so here's the bill oh i don't have the money well no you're a bookkeeper you can figure it out and you're a smart woman i don't have the hey you made the commitment and you got to keep your commitment. I don't know what to tell you. Because you'll find that women who actually have things to do tend not to complain as much. Women who actually have responsibilities tend not to complain as much.
[1:19:01] But if you treat them as children, then they will act a lot of times like children. Which is is irresponsibility and complaining. I mean, you know I'm not really talking about your dad, right? You know that. You're a smart guy. You're a smart guy.
[1:19:22] Yeah, yeah, sure. I understand.
[1:19:25] I understand. So, there's something, you know, sorry to be so blunt, but there's something quasi-sexual about this. Like, oh God, what happens if I treat her as an actual adult? Well, okay, so let's say that your father, there's a bill that says the utilities are not paid, right? And he just, here, this letter's for you, right? And he gives her, your mom, the letter. And the utilities are not paid, and they're going to be cut off in 30 days if the bill isn't paid, right?
[1:19:57] Yeah.
[1:19:58] And he says, yeah, you've got to do your thing, right? And then what would she say?
[1:20:06] I mean, back then, she became kind of hysterical, and she said, this is just way too much, and she's not willing to pay it. and that's it she kind of left the room.
[1:20:16] Okay oh just yeah okay so then well then well electricity is going to get cut off just so you know right i mean i don't know what the history is for but you know you made a commitment to pay this bill and when i make a commitment to pay, my bills i pay my bills i don't i don't get to the bank right i'm not going to treat you like a child at the bank i don't get to just get hysterical and run out of the room i mean that's ridiculous right i mean i mean if i can't make my payroll i've got to figure out a way to make my people paid i don't get to just sob and run out of the room let's come on be an adult you pay your bills right yeah because that's why we're in the house is because you made a commitment to pay the bills right that's why the house is and i have to pay my bills every month and you're a bookkeeper you have no excuse i mean you have to pay your bills you have to pay your bills right and and crying Crying and sobbing and screaming is not how you pay your bills unless you're an actress and you're supposed to cry and sob and scream in some acting scene, right? So then what would happen?
[1:21:27] Probably my mom would have eventually paid the bill.
[1:21:30] Well, I think so, right? But what would have happened prior to that? what's the woman's biggest weapon in a monogamous relationship if she's choosing to be petty.
[1:21:42] I mean no sex.
[1:21:43] Right she withholds affection right yes so in other words she says I'll have sex with you when you pay my bills, which is kind of sex work I'm not kidding, I'll have sex with you but you have to pay my bills which is turning your dad into a sugar daddy.
[1:22:11] But the interesting thing is, back then, I'm not sure if they even had any kind of sexual relationship.
[1:22:18] Well, then he had nothing to lose, did he?
[1:22:22] Yeah. And of course, you would do this.
[1:22:24] I mean, obviously for the better mental health of your mother, because this crying, hysterical, running out of the room stuff is like, I mean, my daughter didn't do that when she was two. I mean, she had a sad corner, right? So if she was upset about something, she'd go to her sad corner. and she'd be sad, right? And, you know, we'd go talk to her or whatever, right? But this, like, throwing your arms up, running out, I mean, this is ridiculously childish, right? It's an insult to children, really, to say that that's childish. It's just sad, right? So the reason why you'd want to do that, as a father is why? I mean, obviously for the health of your wife, but why else?
[1:23:06] For the kids?
[1:23:07] Yeah, because otherwise, this is what your kids think women are. and they're not a lot of very solid sensible women who somehow find a way to pay a bill without running screaming from the room and sobbing, so you you don't want to condition your children and you would do this right uh you would do this hopefully before the kids came along right you would say look you've got responsibilities and so on right and yeah because you you wouldn't want to condition your kids, into thinking this is that women are just hysterical and incompetent and materialistic and like, you know, big, overgrown, half-brain-damaged children.
[1:24:01] So what was your father's fear if he stood up for what was best in your mother? In other words, adulthood and responsibility and all that kind of good stuff. What was your father's fear, do you think? What would happen? Would she just divorce him and take half his stuff?
[1:24:15] I don't think so.
[1:24:17] Okay, so what was his fear?
[1:24:18] I don't know.
[1:24:20] I mean, he didn't run a successful business or have a successful career by letting people who owed him money just scream and sob and run out of the room, right?
[1:24:32] To be honest, I'm not sure. I think his pride, so he didn't want a wife or a life where his wife just left. And then he would have to kind of start hunting for a wife again if at that point in his life if he even wanted to try it again. I mean, I remember when I was, it was a bit later, a couple of years later, my mom had kind of like an affair with another guy.
[1:25:09] Please don't tell me she kissed a parkour guy.
[1:25:12] No, no, not like that. But yeah, they had an affair, but she ended up staying. my father offered her she told my father told her that um she's she's free to leave but when they got together basically obviously sorry when they got together.
[1:25:36] You mean your mother and her.
[1:25:39] My parents oh yeah no no my parents yeah okay um basically they didn't have like a marriage contract or something i don't really prefer those things and my father was very generous so everything that he made was basically half his and half my mom's so even the properties we have half of that is on my mom as well so when the situation was so basically when my mom had a kind of like a lover and, she wanted to leave she my father said that she can leave but she should give, all, I mean she should write all these properties on our names so on the kid's names, not on his but on mine or on my brother's name and then she's free to leave that was that was his Wow.
[1:26:32] So he really is not attached to her at all, Yeah Because if you're weak as a husband for most, this is not all marriages right, obviously tons of exceptions but the general principle is if you're weak as a husband your wife will look elsewhere. I mean, women respond to strength in many ways the way that men respond to sexiness. And if a man isn't getting sex in his marriage, he'll generally go elsewhere. And if a woman isn't getting strength in her marriage, she will generally go elsewhere. So there's a huge price to be paid for... I mean, I'm still trying to square this circle that you said your mom's totally easygoing, going but then when she's supposed to pay a bill she screams and cries and sobs and runs out of the room i don't.
[1:27:28] Yeah that's particularly.
[1:27:29] Easy going that seems incredibly difficult.
[1:27:37] Yeah maybe i'm maybe the easygoing terminology isn't the best but it's easy going because.
[1:27:42] Your dad appeases her all the time.
[1:27:44] Yeah yeah if everyone appeased.
[1:27:46] Me i guess i'd be pretty easy going too, if sobbing and crying and screaming got me my way and got me out of my responsibilities i guess i'd be kind of easy going too so let's i know you've got limited time right we got another half hour.
[1:28:09] Yes okay.
[1:28:10] So let's get to your marriage.
[1:28:14] Yeah so we why only one.
[1:28:16] Child out because.
[1:28:19] After two years i mean i wanted three children from the get-go she said two will probably be enough let's see first and then it was difficult for us to have a first child so, it's just biology uh and it was did.
[1:28:34] She have some sort of medical issue did she get tested did fsh levels.
[1:28:38] She had kind of stuff she took birth bills for 10 years and after that once we, i mean maybe a year or two before we got married before our marriage i was traveling a lot abroad working as a professional and we had this distant relationship i was spending, half a year or eight months abroad and then flying away from your wife yes and then back then we were not married back then we were not a girlfriend uh yes sorry how long did you end up before.
[1:29:07] You got married.
[1:29:07] 10 years okay.
[1:29:10] Why i mean i get the.
[1:29:12] 16 part but 26 basically uh we started dating when i was 20 then i finished my, um college basically it was like uh uh yeah i think it was a college uh and then um after that i wanted to gain some experience and earn some money uh and i can't you try that and be married, I didn't want to.
[1:29:38] If I travel a lot and we are not together. So basically I didn't want to marry her while we keep traveling, while I keep traveling.
[1:29:47] Sorry, I don't understand. I mean, when you go traveling, doesn't the company put you up somewhere? Yeah.
[1:29:54] Uh yeah but she was also doing her university back then so she had her for what so she could teach.
[1:30:00] Two hours a week.
[1:30:01] Now i mean man before before we got married she she she was a teacher for i think four or five years okay.
[1:30:09] So she had a job and so she couldn't travel with you so you guys and you were traveling a lot she couldn't come with you because she had this teaching job.
[1:30:19] Up no back then she was at the university so she was studying okay.
[1:30:24] So she couldn't travel with you because she had this university degree oh she was pursuing.
[1:30:28] This university degree okay yes that's correct uh.
[1:30:31] So she finished that at 22 so what about 22 to 26 you still weren't married oh no she was working you said she was working as a teacher right.
[1:30:38] Yes and we also had a two-year period when we were traveling together so we spent a year in france and then a little bit of time in scotland man.
[1:30:48] She's had a nice life man.
[1:30:50] Yeah he's had a nice life okay and then she was not very happy about me traveling this much but i kept telling her that this was to me i always considered this traveling period as a kind of um like like a speed drug so i can gain a lot of experience and earn a lot of money in a couple of years and then that would make life a lot easier later down the line okay and i think it actually did because i i actually made a lot of money so we could buy our own home when i came home without any uh bank loans and stuff so that's a super huge thing and also i just.
[1:31:33] Want to make sure we stay on on the kid stuff so you.
[1:31:36] Got married.
[1:31:36] At 26 and And how long was it before you had kids?
[1:31:41] She was 26 when we got married. I was around 30. And two years later, I think, maybe three. But we started working on the kid part. So basically, she was off the pills two years before we got married. And I started talking to her about that. At first, she was kind of hesitant because she wanted me to marry her first, which I totally respected.
[1:32:04] She wanted you to marry her before trying for kids?
[1:32:07] Yes, that's correct. And then she stopped taking the birth pills, but her periods and her hormones were messed up. We don't know for sure why.
[1:32:21] Was it after you were married that she stopped taking the pill?
[1:32:26] I think before, maybe a year or two before.
[1:32:30] Okay, so sorry, I just want to make sure we get to the meat of the matter, because I'm really conscious of time. Normally, we have a little bit more leisure, but I'm aware that you've got to go in like 24 minutes. So you have a kid. How old was she? You had three years after you got married?
[1:32:46] Yes, after the marriage, yeah.
[1:32:47] Okay, so after you've been together for 13 years, you have a kid. And were you just not able to have more?
[1:32:55] Yeah i mean for a year we didn't try but after a year we tried for a year and a half it wasn't super strict so we were not doing any medical treatment or taking counsel or.
[1:33:07] Sorry you didn't any kind of lists involved or anything like that yes exactly and why not uh.
[1:33:16] Because she wasn't rushing it she had a very i mean.
[1:33:20] No but she's in her whole she's in her 30s at this point right yes and you have, you know some pretty massive fertility issues right and you want three kids you have one kid and of course it's better for your kid if you can have a sibling fairly close in age right yes so why wouldn't you see a specialist, I mean if she had said I'm going to go see a fertility specialist would you have said absolutely not.
[1:33:52] Me no of.
[1:33:53] Course not so she couldn't conceive and she never saw a specialist.
[1:34:02] I mean after the first birth uh no we didn't go.
[1:34:05] Well i mean she would go right i mean i guess you could go and get a sperm count thing going or whatever right but so why did she not see a specialist did she not want more kids i mean deep down maybe.
[1:34:18] Or not yet i.
[1:34:20] Mean if somebody had said I'm going to give you $10 million to have another kid, do you think she would have gone to see a specialist?
[1:34:26] I don't think so. I think she would have.
[1:34:28] I'm absolutely quite sure she would have.
[1:34:30] Maybe.
[1:34:32] Because, I mean, that's the logical thing to do. If you're desperate to have a child, or you really want to have a child, and you can't conceive, you go to a specialist, right?
[1:34:41] Yes, that's correct.
[1:34:42] Okay, so because she didn't go to a specialist, how much did you want another child?
[1:34:49] I wanted it quite a lot.
[1:34:51] Okay so did you ever suggest that she go to a specialist.
[1:34:57] I think not after the first child.
[1:35:00] Why not before why not you want another kid she can't conceive go to a specialist this is health 101, Because she didn't want to have another kid so much, and you didn't want to upset her. Come on, isn't that it?
[1:35:20] Yeah, pretty much.
[1:35:21] Okay. So she has a kid, and she stays home with your son, right?
[1:35:28] Yes.
[1:35:29] Okay, she stays home with your son. And then your son, at what age did your son start going to kindergarten or school?
[1:35:40] Almost four. Okay.
[1:35:42] Is homeschooling allowable in your country?
[1:35:46] No, unfortunately. Okay.
[1:35:47] Can you move to a country where homeschooling is allowable? Because you're a big travel guy, right?
[1:35:53] Yeah, it occurred to me.
[1:35:55] Okay. And why did you?
[1:35:56] Because we had this plan of building our own school. That was part of the reason why we wanted to do it. So I don't really want to leave the country, but I also don't want to be a total hypocrite. And after knowing how public education works, still putting my son...
[1:36:13] Sorry, I'm a little confused. What the fuck would it have to do with your preferences? It's what's best for your kid. Maybe I'm missing something here. I, I, I, we, we, I, we, what's best for your son?
[1:36:27] I mean, for our son would be the best to avoid the public education.
[1:36:31] That's for sure.
[1:36:31] Okay, so isn't that your decision? if it's best for your son isn't i mean what am i missing here.
[1:36:43] What we so but the idea is that how can we avoid that and we have come up with a couple of plans for that and one is actually leaving the country but it's not necessarily.
[1:36:58] Okay but nothing's happening nothing's imminent and your wife is not working 24 7 to make these plans happen because she wants to do what's best for your son right because your wife's the teacher so she'd know this stuff right okay so the plans are nonsense right because your wife is uh kissing parkour guys rather than starting a school right yes okay, So, your wife is how old now?
[1:37:28] 36.
[1:37:30] 36. So, what happened four years ago, so the last two years of your marriage, and was there anything that happened in particular two years ago?
[1:37:42] I mean, she had this accident with her arm, I think that was two years ago, and I was kind of pissed about it. well because so a.
[1:37:53] Year after sorry to interrupt a year after she gave birth she's off doing parkour.
[1:37:58] I think two years but yes why, because she doesn't feel satisfied with her life at home.
[1:38:10] And what does she feel unsatisfied about.
[1:38:15] Lack of communication lack of socializing.
[1:38:22] Okay and of course there are six million different ways to socialize other than parkour right.
[1:38:30] I mean she was telling me that she wanted more from me uh more talk and um more, traveling i for instance there was but you're making a lot.
[1:38:44] Of money to support the households right how are you supposed to travel.
[1:38:47] We did travel actually quite a lot i mean i took her to kind of fancy places mauritius and i don't know what so we also do a lot of surfing together and we we go i think we do so her life is not short of luxuries right i would say so yes okay Okay.
[1:39:09] So she's dissatisfied with her life, and her first thought is that you have to fix it, right? Because, I mean, from what you've written to me, all she does is complain about you. You're not emotionally available. You don't talk enough. You don't take me places. You don't do this. I mean, am I wrong? What is she saying? I'm dissatisfied with my life, and it's my job to fix it, right? Maybe I'm dissatisfied because I only had one kid, right? I mean, she's young enough. She could have another kid, right? If she went to a specialist, then your son would have a sibling for the rest of his life. Because when you make decisions about your kids, you're making decisions for the rest of their lives, right?
[1:39:59] Yes.
[1:40:01] But she doesn't. Are you guys still trying to have kids?
[1:40:04] Not right now.
[1:40:05] Okay. And do you have any sex life at all right now?
[1:40:08] No.
[1:40:09] Okay. And how long has it been since you had a sex life? I mean, more than just intermittent, like regular sex life.
[1:40:16] Four months.
[1:40:17] Okay. Okay. So, she's dissatisfied, and she's turning to you to solve her dissatisfaction, and for some reason, I can't quite figure it out, for some reason, you're accepting that this is your job. Now, she says that you're not as emotionally available as she would like, right?
[1:40:40] Yes.
[1:40:40] Okay. Were you much more emotionally available over the past 18 years before these problems came up, and did it suddenly change because you got a piece of shrapnel to the neofrontal cortex or something?
[1:40:52] No. I actually became a lot better, I think, over the years because I was a lot worse when we started dating.
[1:40:58] Well, see, here's the thing. I don't know about worse. Do you know why men are not expressive in their emotions?
[1:41:07] Because it's a liability?
[1:41:09] Yeah. I mean, try negotiating in the business world if other people can read you like a book. Try gambling. Try being in conflict with people who can read you like a book. Men hide, we hide our feelings so we can win resources. So a woman who wants a good income from a man and for the man to be wildly emotionally available wants complete opposite things. It's like saying to a woman, I want you to be eight months pregnant and slender at the same time. It's like, I'm afraid you're going to have to pick a lane there, buddy. so does she understand that your quote lack of emotional availability A is partly just because you're a man and B because you're a competitive competent and successful man which means you can't have other people reading you like a book.
[1:41:59] I don't think she understands that.
[1:42:00] Okay, so have you told her something like, I mean, I just remember this from a relationship in my 20s, where, you know, I was having a great chat with a friend of mine who's an economist, and we were talking about the world and life and this and that and the other. And, you know, I got off the phone, and my girlfriend was like, you didn't even ask how his wife was or anything like that. It's like, I'm like, yeah, because we're guys. Don't judge me by your standards. I mean, you don't hear me bitching about you talking to your girlfriends because you're not discussing the Federal Reserve.
[1:42:34] Yeah, that's correct. I mean, I'm a man.
[1:42:35] So you can enjoy me being a man, or you can try and turn me into a girl, which won't work and you'll be unhappy if you even got close to succeeding. So help me understand, like, is she defining masculinity as broken femininity? Like, if you're just more like her or like what she wants her girlfriends to be or something, that you'll be fixed and better?
[1:43:01] Yeah.
[1:43:02] Okay, well, stop that. Don't do that. Be happy and proud in your masculinity. It's a beautiful, wonderful, amazing, powerful force. Is it the same as femininity? Nope. Vive la différence, I say, right? The difference is good. She's got great strengths as a woman, you have great strengths as a man, but don't have her try and turn you into Okay, when did she start really crabbing at you about emotional availability?
[1:43:32] For the last year. Right.
[1:43:35] So she starts crabbing at you about emotional availability. How long ago did she kiss this other guy?
[1:43:46] Maybe three months.
[1:43:48] Right. So you've been diligently working on being more emotionally available, right? Because you're a very conscientious guy.
[1:43:55] Yes. Okay.
[1:43:56] How's that working out for you?
[1:44:00] Right now?
[1:44:01] Well, so you spent eight months working on trying to be emotionally available, and then she ended up kissing another guy and stopping having sex with you. Because you gave up on your masculinity, and then what? You wanted her to be... My God. Are you really listening to a woman on what she finds attractive? I'm sorry to be so blunt, brother. but I mean again there's lots of exceptions to this but women say oh I want a sensitive guy who's really emotionally available and then what's the biggest sex book of all time is Fifty Shades of Grey.
[1:44:35] I know I know.
[1:44:38] You're like listening to a single mom saying what women find attractive, it's a test, Which is why she says, hey, I can handle this stuff. It's like, okay, give me a list, we'll cancel it. Give me a list. Give me a list to save $3,000 a month. Give me that list. And we'll cancel it. Don't complain about a man being a man. Unless you're a secret lesbian and want something completely different, in which case that's a whole different conversation. But don't ever be budged off your balls, man. Don't ever let a woman say to you This is what A man should be A man should be emotionally available, Like Don't tell me what a man should be I won't tell you what a woman should be Don't tell me what a man should be Because I'm the guy with the balls and you're not, I am who I am Don't try and change me If you're dissatisfied And you try to turn me Into a woman your dissatisfaction will only increase. And isn't that what's happened?
[1:45:54] I'm not sure, to be honest, because it's only a couple of months.
[1:45:59] Okay. A year ago, sorry to be so blunt, a year ago, she said to you, be more emotionally available, you worked on that, and then she kissed another guy.
[1:46:09] Well, yeah, she said that I wasn't working enough.
[1:46:12] Right, because it isn't solving her dissatisfaction. because you have taken ownership of your wife's dissatisfaction like it's your problem to solve. And in my view, she's dissatisfied because she's kind of selfish. Now, maybe you are too. I don't know. But she was 20. Sorry, she was 16. You were 20. Don't tell me you chose her for her virtues and her wisdom. Why did you choose her when she was 16?
[1:46:48] I mean, she looked good.
[1:46:50] Yeah, she's very pretty, right?
[1:46:52] And also, again, it appealed to me that she was the one chasing me.
[1:46:57] Okay. So, you started with a more feminine masculinity because she was pursuing and you were the shy one.
[1:47:10] Yes.
[1:47:11] That's supposed to be the other way around, right?
[1:47:13] Yes, that's correct. Okay.
[1:47:16] So you chose her for her looks, and she pursued you for your looks, athleticism, and you came from a fairly wealthy family. So you did not choose each other for your innate and wonderful virtues, right?
[1:47:32] Yes, that's correct. Okay.
[1:47:34] So now she's dissatisfied because she's in her mid-30s. She's going through a midlife crisis. She has only one kid who's in school all day, and she's bored. And she's bored, and she won't say to herself, I'm bored because I'm kind of lazy. I mean, what does she work really hard at? She works two hours a week, right? She's got a maid who comes in. What is she working really hard at? What is she working at to improve? I mean, you work really hard at your job, right? So what is she working really hard at?
[1:48:17] I mean, she's reading a lot of self-help books.
[1:48:19] Nope, that's selfish. Literally, it's in the title, self. okay what is she working hard on is she saying well for the best of best thing about best thing for my son is i gotta start a school man and that's gonna be a lot of work i'm doing a dig in and right how many hours of hard work does your wife put in a day you're doing 10 to 12 with commute right yes okay 10 to 12 half your day right is working for the family what is she putting and 10 to 12 hours of work into every day. She's got one kid in school and no job, really. Oh, she's doing some university crap, right? Which is something for the school, is that right? That she's got to have this university crap for the school?
[1:49:08] Yes.
[1:49:09] Okay. So is she taking everything she can possibly take as fast as quickly, as fast as humanly possible? And also, how long is that process going to take?
[1:49:20] It's a two-year process and one year is gone, so basically one more year.
[1:49:25] Okay. And when did she first know that she needed that in order to open a school?
[1:49:31] It was, when it became clear.
[1:49:34] She immediately applied.
[1:49:35] So it wasn't, we were not aware.
[1:49:38] Okay. Why doesn't she, why doesn't she in conjunction with you hire someone? Because she says, you know, she can cut back on money, right? So why don't you hire someone who already has the accreditation to start the school so that she can begin managing it and implementing it right away? Why do you have to wait two years for you, for her to get accreditation that you could just pay someone else to have?
[1:50:00] Yeah, it actually occurred to us. The reason we decided not to was because we didn't want to outsource this part of the school because it's too much of a liability to this person with the paper.
[1:50:13] Sorry, I don't understand.
[1:50:15] So basically, if we hire somebody who has the right paper, then that person might have too much saying into what happens in the school.
[1:50:25] Cool and that's a career working with people i assume hiring people as well you just hire the right person yeah okay i.
[1:50:32] Mean it's not that easy it's uh because not that many people have this kind of paper that's number one number two they are kind of not in general not the easiest ones to work with they have their ideas and needs and whatnot so it's certainly possible so i'm not saying it's impossible.
[1:50:51] To find all right so fine whatever difficulties difficulties i don't believe leave much in difficulties but if you're going to say that's a deal breaker that's your wife talking you could find a way to do it it's the 10 million dollar question if somebody paid you 10 million dollars to hire someone who would run the school for a year or two that's all, because then your wife can finish her accreditation and take over right, yes that's so you're saying there's just no way you just this is difficulties and difficulties and and bowing down before difficulties is not male male is we'll find a way that's how your Your career went, right?
[1:51:25] Yeah.
[1:51:26] Find a way. So this is your wife talking. Well, there's this difficulties and that. It's like, okay, there's difficulties. So fucking what? There's difficulties in life. I get it. So find a way around them. So, or, now, let me ask you this. So, she's working at this university. She's, what, getting a master's or something? Is that right?
[1:51:49] Yes.
[1:51:49] Okay, so she's getting a master's. Now, I've done a master's. I don't know if that sounds like you've done a master's too. It's not a lot of work, honestly.
[1:51:56] No, it's not. The actual work is not a lot. It's just the time.
[1:51:59] It's not a lot of work. Okay, so, your wife has one year to go when she's finished her master's and can run this school, right?
[1:52:08] Yes.
[1:52:08] So how thick is your spreadsheet and business plan for the school how much has she been working on finding locations uh evaluating real estate prices and figuring out marketing campaigns and figuring out the budget and how many teachers you're going to hire and working on the curriculum how hard is your wife working on developing all of the mind-bogglingly complex and detailed stuff you need to open a school.
[1:52:35] Yeah, we don't have any of that. I offered my help, but she...
[1:52:38] No! So it's nonsense! She's just killing time because she doesn't want to work on the school. No, I'll take a master's. Right? But she's only got a year to go. I mean, you've been a businessman for a long time. Starting any complex venture takes more than a year of planning, usually, right?
[1:52:57] Yes.
[1:52:57] Okay, so... And it's her job. You already have a job. You're working 10 to 12 hours, right? So it's her job to open the school. And has she done anything in terms of planning, for the opening of the school?
[1:53:12] No. Not much.
[1:53:14] Okay, so it's not going to happen. So, which means that, and this is why she's bored and discontented. Because if she was like, oh, you know, for the best and better of my son and the future, and this way my son is going to have good kids to play with, and so on first of all she should have been going to a specialist years ago to get a sibling for your son and you guys should have had open conversations but she didn't really want to do that and you just let her get away with it and now she's faffing around doing this nonsense degree without doing any of the planning necessary to actually open the school which means it's not going to happen oh because then what's going to happen is oh you know well i finished my master's now i've got to start looking at maybe some real estate and that's going to take another six months or so and then and I guess I should get a spreadsheet going of the business plan, and right, it's just going to go on and on, right? And then what's going to happen is, I guarantee you, she's probably gambling on this unconsciously, what's going to happen is she's going to say, well, I guess we're finally vaguely ready to think about starting to open the school, but you know, our son is embedded in his school, he's got all these friends, he doesn't want to leave now, and right, it's just, you know how this works. You know how people defer work all the time.
[1:54:32] So the problem is that she needs something to do with her life. Not make work crap like this master's degree in parkour. But to do that, she's going to... When was the last time your wife worked hard? I mean, I'm telling you, my wife is a force of nature. Like, if she sits down for half an hour during the day, it's a miracle. And I'm constantly saying to her, slow down, right? But she's just a really hard worker. I'm pretty hardworking myself too, but that's satisfying because then you don't sit there and wonder what you did with your day and get this vague Russian malaise going on or whatever, right? Because it's like, you know what you did. So when was the last time your wife worked eight hours a day hard at anything?
[1:55:25] When she was still teaching at the public school, so maybe before her son was born. Well, I mean, yeah. He took care of the first year, which was difficult.
[1:55:36] Okay, I'm not sure that teaching at a public school is really working that hard, but, you know, not compared to, it's not 10 to 12 hours a day. And you get your couple of months off in the summer, right?
[1:55:49] Yes.
[1:55:49] Okay, so, no, not really. When was the last time that your wife worked really hard at anything? so she's a lady of leisure she's a pampered upper middle class woman who's bored because she doesn't work much at anything, so i mean i get it i mean i i i understand the appeal i wrote about these kinds of women called ladies who lunch in my novel the god of atheists but it's fine but then the price of not working much at anything is that you're going to feel bored and restless and discontented because we're she's an intelligent woman obviously and and she's probably got great capabilities but she just doesn't know how to do hard work and so that's fine so you know if she comes to you and say well i my the problem in my life is that you're not emotionally available enough it's like no that's not your problem the problem is you have one kid who's in school and you're bored and the solution to that is to get a project get a community get a charity get a school going like whatever it is, right? But the answer isn't more parkour and kissing some other guy. That's just causing problems. And you have way more to complain about than your wife does because she actually broke the marriage vow by kissing another guy. And dear God, I hope that's all that happened.
[1:57:15] I'm going to trust her, and that's what she told me.
[1:57:18] Why do you trust her?
[1:57:22] She gave me no reason to don't.
[1:57:25] What do you mean she gave you no reason to not trust her? She kissed another guy.
[1:57:30] Yeah, but she kind of told me about that.
[1:57:34] Okay, how do you know that's all that happened? I'm not saying that more did happen, but how do you know?
[1:57:40] From her words.
[1:57:42] Okay, but how long after she kissed the guy did she tell you she kissed the guy?
[1:57:49] A couple of weeks.
[1:57:50] And how long did she have this quote friendship with the young hot parkour guy before she kissed him, a year why the fuck would you allow or encourage or countenance your wife having a friendship with a young attractive male outside of marriage.
[1:58:12] I was kind of happy that she has I don't know any kind of social life that she can and, I don't know, satisfy her.
[1:58:20] Okay. Let's say you hire some totally hot secretary to work with you and travel with you. What's your wife going to think?
[1:58:30] Yeah, we actually have this issue because some of the girls who are my employees look pretty good, and she keeps bugging me about that.
[1:58:38] Oh, okay. So she can have her hot friends, but you can't have hot employees.
[1:58:43] I mean, I have, half, but she just keeps complaining about dad.
[1:58:47] No, I mean, but in her mind, it's a bad thing, right?
[1:58:50] Yeah, yeah, that's correct.
[1:58:51] Okay, so I don't know what you guys' marriage is all about then. If you can get emotional and quasi-romantic sustenance outside the marriage, I'm not saying this is the case with your employees, but certainly it is the case with her parkour friend, right? And what kind of creepy guy hangs around a married woman?
[1:59:09] Yeah, I told her that.
[1:59:10] Well, when did you tell her that? that.
[1:59:12] When i when it became apparent to me what what is happening.
[1:59:16] And when did so basically when she told you she kissed him yes well that's a little late isn't it yes that's correct so you were happy to pawn your wife off on some hot guy, Because she was complaining about not enough socialization.
[1:59:34] Well, yeah, that's true. And she was actually, I think, doing it partially just to bring it to my attention that, hello, I'm here.
[1:59:45] Well, she probably wanted you to say, get this skeevy parkour asshole out of her life.
[1:59:51] Yes, that's correct.
[1:59:53] Now you say, ah, but I don't want to be bossy and I don't want to tell her what to do. And it's like, no, you don't tell her what to do. You remind her of her vows. and it is a form of cheating to have a hot single opposite sex friend for a year especially when the marriage isn't doing well that's just a kind of cheating and you come home and you deal with the marriage you don't just hang out with, Mr. Flexi Muscles right? Yeah So but you were happy to in a sense you said you were relieved that she was going off and hanging out with hot parkour guy.
[2:00:23] She seemed happier that she's not because she was kind of depressed because of all the, lack of social life.
[2:00:33] Okay, so this is just another complaint that she's making about why she's unhappy. What do you admire, respect, love, and treasure about your wife?
[2:00:52] Courage, mostly. I mean, she's a very...
[2:00:55] Okay, in what area is she courageous? How does the courage manifest? First, I'm not disagreeing with you. I just want to make sure I understand.
[2:01:01] Talking. She's always kind of upfront about a lot of stuff.
[2:01:08] Wasn't she attracted to parkour guy for a year before she kissed him?
[2:01:12] That's correct.
[2:01:13] Okay, so she wasn't upfront about that.
[2:01:16] That's correct as well.
[2:01:17] Okay, so let's not try that one. Try another, though.
[2:01:22] She's also joyful, so she enjoys stuff that she does.
[2:01:27] No, she said she's depressed and miserable. So let's try another one. Depressed, miserable, complaining, and dissatisfied, is not joyful. She's not a great mother, because a great mother doesn't kiss another man. Because that destabilizes the marriage and threatens the marriage, which threatens the happiness of her son. She chose hot parkour guy, over the happiness of her son. Because now the parents are unhappy, so she's not a great mom from that standpoint. She's not putting her son first with regards to getting the school going, because she's not going to be ready, in a year when she's done her master's, not even close to ready, and that work's going to fall on you, and then she's going to complain that you're even more unavailable when she didn't put the school thing together, and now you have two nights and weekends. So what else?
[2:02:51] I mean, dozer are my picks.
[2:02:53] Okay. So right now, there's not a lot that you admire about your wife. If I understand this part of the conversation correctly.
[2:03:23] And i mean how could you right she's complaining about the very things that make you successful she's complaining that you're not showing her appreciation when she shows you appreciation for working 10 to 12 hours a day for her and you and the family five times in 10 years, she goes and does ridiculously irresponsible things like becoming some parkour chick in her her thirties, breaking her arm. She hangs out for a year with the guy she's attracted to and never tells you about anything. And she complains about you without realizing she has to earn your admiration and love.
[2:04:02] And this is a situation that you have let happen and contributed to for almost 20 years, right? What are your standards for her? When have you sat down and said, look, here's the problems I have with you. You complain, you don't show appreciation, you nag, you do irresponsible things, you don't listen, I can't give you any advice, you are unfaithful in the marriage for a year. You're not preparing for the school thing. I'm not finding much about you to admire at the moment. And I would really like it if we could talk about some of the things that you could change rather than just endlessly complaining about me. Now, what would she say to something like that?
[2:05:00] I don't know.
[2:05:01] Yes, you do. Because otherwise you would have said something like that because you're not telling her the truth if you're withholding from her the things that bother you. Do you see? If you're just taking on all the problems in the relationship, oh, it's all me, your dissatisfaction is all me, I'll tell you what, I'll work a 10 to 12 hour day and then I'll come home and I'll do housework and I'll try to become more emotionally available and I'll let you have hot parkour guys around and, and, and, and, right? That's sad. Stop it. Stop appeasing. Stop it. It's not going to work. It isn't working. You've been trying this for 20 years. Your father tried it for even longer. How does it work? To have no needs, to appease, to take on all the burdens and make everything your fault.
[2:06:04] To self-erase. It keeps her infantilized, you dissatisfied. Your son gets the wrong impression of an adult relationship, and the marriage falls apart. Could you imagine a business relationship like this? You've got a business partner who just complains, then you're working 12 hours a day, he's working 3 hours a day, and he complains that it's all your fault?
[2:06:34] Well i could tell you about that i have a business relationship which is kind of similar.
[2:06:39] Well there you go so there's a pattern right yes it's a pattern you have through your father you learned to have no needs and preferences and to just appease other people because you're scared of them right if you say to your wife look we've we've spent a lot of years now talking about my my deficiencies. Let's talk about the things I'm unhappy with. I don't know if this is happening in your talk therapy or whatever, or is your marriage counseling just about how you're bad and wrong and need to change? I can't imagine that's the case. So what does she need to change? Like, give me the speech you'd give to her if you knew she'd really, really listen and take it seriously. What would you want to tell her about your dissatisfactions in the marriage?
[2:07:21] I would definitely start with the long-term plans. So where does she want to be in two, two, three, five years? What are the plans and what do we do to actually get there? So that's, I actually told her a few times that that's the major part I'm missing right now, because she keeps telling me that she wants to enjoy the present right now and just don't care about the future.
[2:07:47] So what's the we there? You said, what do we have to do to make that happen?
[2:07:54] Yeah, that's correct. What does she have to do?
[2:07:57] Well, and she doesn't have to do anything, but then don't take her complaints seriously. You know, if I have a friend who eats badly and doesn't exercise and then complains that he's tired, I'd be like, am I going to take his complaints? Oh, my gosh, that's so bad. That's such a mystery. Maybe I can exercise for you. right i mean if if if your wife wants to pursue these kind of vaguely selfish things, and not work hard at anything and indulge in extramarital affairs then she's going to be unhappy okay so you can say i you know hey man i sympathize with the unhappiness but it's all the result of your actions no it's your fault it's like no no no no no no no no no just don't you don't take that on, right? Because that's trapping her in dysfunctional behavior. Like, what has been the fallout of her kissing another man? Let's just say it was only kissing. What has the fallout been of her kissing another man? What has she changed? What has she been horrified about with regards to her own behavior? And what has she committed to changing?
[2:09:07] Um, I'm not sure, to be honest.
[2:09:11] I mean, oh, so she kissed another man and it's still somehow your fault. Because you just weren't emotionally available enough.
[2:09:21] Yes, pretty much.
[2:09:22] Okay. How, how, how would it be if you had an affair with some hot woman at work? What would your wife, would your wife be like, oh, clearly that's my fault for not being sexually available enough?
[2:09:34] No.
[2:09:35] No, she would nail you to a tree, right?
[2:09:38] Yes.
[2:09:39] Right. So your wife isn't even apologetic and willing to change when she had an emotional affair that culminated in a physical whatever for a year. But then you were happy to have it happen because she stopped complaining, right? Okay, honey, you can have your hot parkour guy. Just don't complain. Is that right?
[2:10:07] Yeah.
[2:10:09] Well, man, what are you teaching your son here, man? Women can get whatever the hell they want. All they have to do is complain, and your only job as a man is to appease and throw them hot parkour teachers for their recreation. You think your son's going to want to get married?
[2:10:31] I hope so.
[2:10:33] Do you think he's going to, he's looking at your marriage, right? He's six years old. He's seeing and absorbing everything, right?
[2:10:42] Yeah.
[2:10:42] Right. He knows that you guys are unhappy. He knows you're not getting along. He knows you appease. He knows your wife nags and half bullies and complains and gets whatever she wants, right? Is he going to want your life? I can't wait to be like dad. I can't wait to get a woman like mom. What are you teaching your son about women and men? And how relationships work. I mean, he doesn't have any other examples in the house. I mean, you already have a private school called marriage.
[2:11:33] Yeah, that's correct.
[2:11:35] And what's he seeing? Is he seeing parents who are happy and thrilled to see each other? You know, I saw this tweet the other day about how my husband and I were so happy to see each other in the restaurant that the couple next to us broke up. You know, unless I'm deep in the middle of something, whenever my wife comes home, I like sprint down the hallway and collide into her. I'm thrilled that she's home.
[2:12:13] Because there's not really a whole lot of point having kids if they don't continue the line and, or if they continue the line and they're miserable or get divorced or, What is your concern regarding your wife if you start to have standards and preferences that she needs to take? Now, you can say, well, I can't enforce them. It's like, yeah, no, of course you can't enforce them. I get that. I understand that. But you can say, hey, man, I've spent the last couple of years listening to your complaints. It hasn't really worked out. Let's try shaking it up and changing it around, and now you can listen to my issues. and dislike where you're going to be in five years, she's not an employee, man. It's not your job to run her life.
[2:13:06] It's not your job to substitute your energy and enthusiasm for things she's missing. She's got to develop these things for herself. And if a woman who doesn't work that much and doesn't sound like she's got a pretty great life, you're taking her to St. Mauritius and she gets to go parkouring and she gets to hang out with hot parkour guys and she doesn't have to really work and she does a bit of university and she does two hours of teaching a week and and blah blah blah it's a pretty pretty sweet gig right pretty pretty i mean i think ultimately i guess it's unsatisfying and all of that but if she's complaining that she's feeling under socialized it's like well then you should go start a charity go join a charity go you know do do these things but i can't do it because i'm i'm working 10 to 12 hours well you should work less okay we can certainly talk about that um then give me a list of all the things that you want to cut in the the household. Now, she never gives you that list, and then she says, I want you to be my social life, and you say, no, well, you know, I have to work to pay the bills, and I asked you which bills to cut. You didn't say anything, so I'm going to keep working. I mean, I gave you the option. You didn't take it, so you don't get to complain about me working when you want the fruits of my labor. I mean, you don't have to get mad at anything, right?
[2:14:18] It's just bland consequences. Well, yeah, your life is unsatisfying. Yeah. Like I got so sick of you, I threw you into the arms of hot parkour guy for a year. Like I'm not proud of that, but that's where things are. I would rather you flirt with some hot young guy than complain to me. This is how bad things have gotten. So you got to stop complaining. You chose me. You got to stop complaining. You got to stop asking me to fix your life.
[2:14:52] You're 36 years old for God's sake so 34 years old it's your life we're partners I don't own you I don't run you I'm not here to give your life meaning or be your entire social circle, you got one kid who's in school most of the day you got no particular hobbies you do a little bit of university and a little bit of teaching so you're bored I get that so then find something to do I can't tell you what that is it's not my job, You don't tell me how to spend eight hours of my day.
[2:15:27] Me changing is off the table. And I'm sorry that I let it go on for so long. It's a bad habit and it comes to do with my family and blah, blah, blah. But yeah, me changing, nope, it's off the table. Your life is not a problem because I'm not emotionally expressive enough or I'm not socializing enough and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. like we all agreed on the spending stuff and you haven't given me any actual cuts other than impossible ones like let's not have a car so you're dissatisfied because you're, underutilized and you can be underutilized that's fine but i'm just not going to listen to you complain about it and i'm certainly not going to listen to you complain and say it's my fault that you're unhappy you have all of the privilege and like look at throughout human history man Come on, lady. Look at all throughout human history. How many people throughout all of human history would have given their eye teeth to have the opportunities and resources you have?
[2:16:24] People in the Black Death, people in the Second World War, people in the Napoleonic Wars, people in Dickensian London, slaves, conscriptees, women without access to modern medicine, Listen, dying in childbirth, how many women throughout human history would look at you with sympathy? They would do anything to be in your position. We have won the lottery of human history, and you complain and complain and complain. And I'm not going to listen to it anymore. If you want to solve things, I mean, I'm happy to help. If you've got an idea, we can talk about it. but the idea that you have all of these privileges all of this money you've only got one kid, who's in school the idea that you're complaining and complaining and complaining and depressed and depressed and depressed and it's my fault my fault my fault, i i've played this game too long i'm sick of it and i'm not doing it anymore, What would she say?
[2:17:38] I don't know. I'll figure out.
[2:17:42] I'm sorry?
[2:17:44] I will figure out.
[2:17:45] I will. I didn't catch you. I will figure it out.
[2:17:48] Yes, that's what I said.
[2:17:50] And now I know you've got to go, so we can stop here. If there's anything you want to mention at the end?
[2:17:56] No, other than thank you very much for this and everything that you do.
[2:18:01] Yeah, I don't know if she speaks English. if she wants to talk i'm certainly happy to to chat with her too if there's anything i can do to help obviously yeah she speaks i'll yeah i can talk to both i can talk to just her i'm obviously thrilled she's certainly welcome to listen to this and uh you know if i've got anything wrong she's certainly welcome to correct me and maybe i'm just not emotionally available enough for her too um but uh yeah keep keep me posted about how it's going and i obviously wish you guys the very best in particular for the sake of your son thank you thank you i hope you guys do have a conversation about having more kids uh that certainly would uh it would uh it would uh give her more to do all right keep me posted thanks for the call man thank.
[2:18:41] You very much bye bye ciao stefan.
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