Murderous Rage?!? Freedomain Call In - Transcript


0:00 - Introduction
0:53 - Childhood Trauma and Emotional Impact
14:50 - Emotional Abuse and Name-Calling
22:30 - Childhood Friendships and Relationships
24:00 - Teenage Relationship and Emotional Manipulation
26:44 - Setting Boundaries in a Relationship
35:59 - Emotional Disconnect and Traumatic Experiences
44:02 - Childhood Trauma and Emotional Manipulation
46:54 - Family Dynamics and Interpersonal Relationships
50:13 - Awareness and Accountability
53:49 - Transition to Teenage Relationships
55:44 - Meeting Current Partner and Health Challenges
1:05:29 - Relationship Expectations and Realities
1:14:15 - Judgment and Relationship Dynamics
1:19:53 - Physical Injury and Psychological Origins
1:26:42 - Uncovering the Painful Past
1:33:20 - Unleashing the Murderous Rage
1:51:54 - Seeking Justice and Closure

Long Summary

Stefan Molyneux engaged in a deep and emotional conversation with a caller who opened up about their struggles with depression and neurasthenia, tracing these difficulties back to a toxic and emotionally abusive childhood environment. The caller shared harrowing details of verbal and physical abuse from their parents, expressing feelings of exhaustion and vulnerability. Despite seeking help from medical professionals, the caller felt unsupported and alone in their journey. Childhood memories of a more energetic past were juxtaposed with specific instances of abuse, including name-calling and daily conflicts at home. The caller also detailed coping mechanisms like documenting abuse to confront their mother and finding solace in friendships and activities like acting classes.

The caller bravely recounted a troubling experience of dating an older man at the age of 14, whose subsequent passing potentially left a lasting emotional impact. This led to a reflection on family dynamics and past encounters with abuse from the caller's grandmother's partner. The conversation delved into emotional connections, surrendering to expertise, and the importance of seeking alternative perspectives on one's past. Despite the heavy subject matter, the caller maintained a somewhat detached demeanor, sparking introspection on her emotional responses and resilience in the face of adversity.

Further revelations emerged as the caller shared a distressing encounter with an older partner in their youth, followed by subsequent relationships characterized by healthier but still challenging dynamics. The dialogue expanded to encompass the caller's current relationship, health issues, and the obstacles they face when contemplating starting a family due to health concerns and ongoing energy struggles. The caller expressed feelings of lethargy and a lack of motivation, grappling with the will to continue living despite undergoing various health checks that yielded uncertain results. A recent accident that resulted in a broken leg added physical challenges to the caller's already complex situation.

Stefan probed the caller's decision-making processes, suggesting that actions like climbing a wall despite physical weakness may stem from a subconscious desire to prove oneself to their partner. The host delved into the psychological underpinnings of the caller's condition, emphasizing the significance of exploring potential underlying causes. The caller shared progress made with their psychologist and the positive impact of moving out from their family home on their well-being. The discussion touched upon the caller's anger towards their parents for failing to protect them adequately, leaving them vulnerable to harmful individuals. The topics of suppressed anger, feelings of death, and the concept of murderous rage as a protective mechanism were explored, underscoring the complexity of the caller's emotional landscape and the imperative of addressing these deep-seated emotions.

In a separate segment, Stefan connected with a caller regarding their experiences of abuse, manipulation, and neglect by parents and others. The conversation delved into feelings of gaslighting, emotional suppression, and the parental responsibility to safeguard children from harm. Stefan encouraged the caller to confront and express their pent-up anger, stressing the importance of seeking assistance and processing past traumas. Expressing admiration for the caller's strength, Stefan offered unwavering support as they navigated their path to healing, concluding the interaction with a heartfelt message of care and encouragement to stay in touch.


[0:00] Introduction

[0:00] Hi, this is Stefan Molyneux. It's a great call-in coming up, and I wanted to read the message that I got. We kind of dove into the conversation at breakneck speed, so this is the message that I got. The topic is, I have depression and neurasthenia. I'm diagnosed with depression and neurasthenia, and it's been like that for at least 10 years, four years with official diagnosis. I feel tired most of the time, and I'm afraid of doing things because my energy recovers is extremely slowly and I need that energy to function in my everyday life.

[0:33] I don't work and I feel like eight hour work days would make my life so miserable that I wouldn't see a point in living anymore because I'm so tired. I've had moments in my life where I'm just so tired that I think I don't want to live anymore, but I also don't want to die. It's been a little better in the recent months, but not gone.

[0:53] Childhood Trauma and Emotional Impact

[0:54] The doctors haven't been much help. So I'm turning to you with my problem how can i get rid of my neurasthenia and function like everybody else so appreciate the honesty and directness of the call we really did jump in at the deep end so here we go well gosh i'm of course i'm sorry to hear about all of this that's going on obviously i can't do you much in terms of physical health um but if there's anything else that i can help you with in terms of self-knowledge or something like that i'm obviously thrilled to help and a massive sympathies for what what's going on so do you want to start with your, uh with your childhood and see what we can take from there.

[1:36] Oh no yes yes i'm afraid no this is this is where we must begin i think with something this deep-rooted yeah.

[1:43] Well i know my childhood wasn't that great it's better than most people but I grew up in a very unstable and toxic household. Like, it was emotionally abusive and very gaslighting, constantly bickering parents and stuff like that. So I'm not even sure what more to talk about.

[2:14] Why do you say that's better than most?

[2:18] Because I know that a lot of people have had physically abusive parents and the parents that are even more emotionally abusive.

[2:34] Sorry, why would that matter relative to your emotional experience as a child? We don't have these comparisons as children, right?

[2:43] Well, yeah, bad is bad, but then I don't want to belittle anyone else's experience by saying, oh, mine was so terrible.

[2:53] But why would your genuine experience, what would it have to do with anyone else's? I mean, you could have had the second best childhood in the world, let's imagine, right? And there would still be challenges and so on involved. And even people who have great childhoods have trauma or have difficulties because they have to grow up in a world full of people who've had terrible childhoods. And so there aren't any great childhoods, I think, at the moment. I mean, you can have great childhoods, but that makes it difficult for you in life as a whole, right? Right. So I'm trying to like the first thing you do is sort of minimize your own suffering. When when you emailed me because you say, Steph, I'm suffering. Right.

[3:39] Yeah.

[3:39] These may not be unrelated.

[3:43] It's definitely not unrelated. And I found that out recently, like in our last few months. because what I emailed you about was that I have neurasthenia that means a chronic exhaustion or chronic like tiredness I'm tired all the time that's what basically that means and it was like that for a long long time I remember in like middle school I think I would come home and go straight to sleep. And even then, when I was studying, I fell asleep on the table. And I only found out later that it's not normal to do that, actually.

[4:32] Were you the only child?

[4:34] Yes, I was the only child.

[4:37] Right.

[4:40] So it's continued like that. And in the recent years, I went to university, but I had like a block study. So I didn't have to go and be present. I had a lot of work to do on my own. And it went a little better. But now when I got a partner and I started living with him and moved out, actually, then it like skyrocketed. So I always knew that my family home was toxic, but I didn't know it had such a large impact on me. Like being there just sucked out the energy from me. but yeah i am still not like fully healed now.

[5:35] I assume of course right i mean you've you've you've had this you said since middle school.

[5:39] And you've.

[5:40] Had the um uh you said the last 10 years have been fairly bad obviously you've taken every medical um intervention or test or whatever known demand right and and is it the case that they can't find much if anything.

[5:54] That might actually uh actually i only talked to like psychiatrists and psychologists and only recently i started to like i did a sleep study but i don't have the results yet because no one ever told me like the doctors didn't tell me that oh you should like do a sleep study or check if something's wrong with your brain or something. I don't know. I gave blood tests, and they were always fine. So, yeah, I haven't done anything known to them.

[6:36] Sorry, what about as a kid? Did you get taken to doctors for checkups?

[6:40] No.

[6:40] Like working?

[6:41] No, because in my parents' eyes, it was normal to sleep that much and the I have it as well, I found out that sleeping so much and falling asleep on your table isn't normal. When I went to high school, I think, in the later years of high school, I talked to my psychologist and just mentored him. And she said, that's not normal. normal like she explained to me that that this isn't what life's supposed to be like.

[7:37] Sorry are you in your 20s at the moment are you in your 30s.

[7:45] I'm sorry i can't hear you.

[7:47] Sorry are you in your 20s or your 30s at the moment, I'm 24 okay so basically since you were like 10 or so did you have a time or did you have a thought where or an experience where you had more energy as a kid I.

[8:04] Can't hear you anymore again.

[8:06] Oh is that right okay I.

[8:07] Wonder what that is.

[8:08] That's strange alright hold on a sec here.

[8:12] Now I can.

[8:13] Yeah alright sorry just let me know are we getting anything at all uh hear me again yeah.

[8:24] I can hear you.

[8:25] Okay good good um not sure why uh exciting exciting all right so basically do you have a time in childhood when you remember having more energy uh.

[8:39] Yeah i know i after kindergarten or Or E-school, I think. Like the first, second, third, fourth grade. I would go to... I would study and then go and play outside. Like I had energy for that. I know that. And that's what I remember. But after that, I'm not sure. So there was definitely, I think there was a time where I had more energy, but I don't know why it like changed suddenly.

[9:16] There's nothing sort of big and dramatic that would be obvious that would say, here's what went wrong, right?

[9:21] Yeah, probably. Okay.

[9:23] And tell me a little bit about what happened as a kid in terms of being disciplined, or you said that sort of verbal abuse. So what kind of stuff happened with you as a kid in that regard?

[9:37] Art that's a great question because i tend to forget these things like there was a lot of yelling i know that i can't recall like specific things but i know there was a lot of yelling then sometimes name calling uh passive aggressive comments maybe and just my My mom especially was the type to like suddenly just say something mean. And so I am really sensitive to people's emotions even now. So I remember that. But I definitely was like disciplined physically too, but not a lot. but a few times is also really bad and it stays with you.

[10:40] But other than that I can't recall the thing with the emotional abuse, is that I can't really put a finger on it, what it is with my mother I don't recall emotional abuse from my father that much he was just distant But with my mother, it was always like she would say something or do something mean, and then I would be upset with her and maybe talk bad things about her with my friends or something. And when I got home and she was friendly again and everything, I would feel so guilty that I talked bad about her because she's actually not a bad person. So that's the pattern I remember. But other than that, I'm sorry.

[11:42] No, no, it's great. I appreciate that. Now, I just, I need specifics.

[11:48] Okay. Specifics.

[11:50] So you have a lot of things that you can't really remember, right?

[11:54] Yeah, I remember a few, like the physical discipline.

[11:58] Okay, so let's talk about the physical discipline, as you call it.

[12:02] Uh i remember one time when i was like uh it was summer and the school was beginning so we like packed the textbooks and everything into papers so i don't remember what happened but she slapped me uh across the face and of course i started crying and i was sad and it hurt and I stood up and I think she like realized it was over the line and then like opened her arms to hug me and I remember in that moment I thought that okay I'm not actually afraid of her but I want to think that I want her to think that I am so she would like apologize more or something like that. So I took a step back and then she just let her hands down. Her reaction was basically like, fine, suit yourself. I remember that very well.

[13:13] So she hit you and then she wanted to comfort you, but you rejected her comfort because you wanted her to know how upset you were?

[13:22] Yeah, I wanted her to, like, offer me security feeling again, because she hit me.

[13:29] Sorry, wasn't she trying to do that by giving you the hug after she hit you?

[13:36] Hugging someone from, like, because it's almost mandatory after a situation like this, and hugging someone because you're really sorry or do different things, I saw that she wasn't actually sorry.

[13:52] And how did you know that she wasn't sorry?

[13:54] Her face was still like, like I said, come here then. If you want a hug, come here, then I will give you a hug.

[14:04] I'm sorry, can I just ask you for a favor? You keep touching your microphone.

[14:08] Oh, I'm sorry.

[14:09] No, that's fine. Just it puts a rumble that's kind of distracting.

[14:12] Okay, sorry, sorry.

[14:13] No, that's fine. Okay, and then, of course, I guess your theory that she wasn't really sorry was reinforced forced by the fact that when you didn't want to accept her immediate comfort she just said okay fine right.

[14:27] Yeah yeah and.

[14:29] She withdrew any sort of comfort right.

[14:31] Yeah but i i think i still like went for a hug then and she still hugged me but it wasn't like i don't know satisfying i guess it wasn't like comfort comfort you know comforting it didn't comfort me me got it okay.

[14:50] Emotional Abuse and Name-Calling

[14:51] Okay i think i i think i understand and i i certainly sympathize what happened with the other kinds of verbal abuse like what was what was said about about this what was said to you what kind of language was used.

[15:16] Like yelling between my mother and father themselves and then my mother also yelled at me, but I really can't recall the exact words or things I know she did some name calling because Because I literally wrote down them because I knew from a very early age that my mind tends to block out specific moments. So I had to write them down so I could confront her with them and try to fix it. But she only laughed.

[16:01] Oh, she laughed at your attempts. And when did you write them down?

[16:06] When I was like 10, maybe, something like that.

[16:11] Right, okay. And, sorry, go ahead.

[16:16] No, it's just that from the emotional abuse, I remember that it actually, it was recently when I opened my phone and I had some old recordings. And I remember that when I was a few years back, I heard my mother, like every time I heard that she starts yelling, I would start recording because I didn't remember the specifics. I wanted to be able to remember so I could like fix it. Because every time I said to my mom that something is wrong, she would ask, okay, what? And I couldn't answer that. so and when I listened to the recording uh she was like arguing something about something with my father and my little sister who's like two or three at the time uh was uh like asking like where are we going where are we going like they were about to go somewhere outside or something And my mother just like snapped at her like, you'll see then, like so mean and so angry. And I just like cried so much when I heard that because it hurt me so much like to my core because it felt so similar.

[17:42] Sorry, your sister, I thought you were an only child. Did I miss that?

[17:47] Yeah, I was an only child, but for a very long time, like most of my childhood, like until 12, I think. And then when I was 12, my sister was born, my little sister.

[18:03] Now, were names used against you? What did you call names?

[18:10] Yeah it's it's uh in estonian so i but if i translate it it's basically blind chicken so people who are estonian and are listening to the podcast sometime later they know what i mean but uh yeah that's this was one and it wasn't like playful but it was like mean and these kinds of like insults when i didn't insults.

[18:43] Like stupid or worthless or useless or lazy or selfish or anything like that.

[18:49] Yeah not stupid i don't think i got that but the lazy definitely yeah and selfish i also think i got, But yeah, lazy, I remember I got that like very much. I don't think it was just for my mother.

[19:11] And was that, did that happen in response to something you did? Or was that just whenever your parents were upset? Or, you know, did you have to do something first? Or did they just say?

[19:21] I think I had to like not do something, basically. Like when they asked for help and I didn't want to do that. And they would call me lazy or if I didn't want to do my homework at the moment or something like that. So it wasn't like always out of the blue, I think. But yeah. and how.

[19:48] Often would these fights or conflicts or how often would this meanness happen.

[19:55] I think every day i truly think that they would happen in some form every day like there were i started calling them like good periods of my mom because i remember when, she didn't lose her job she quit her job and then she was home for a long time and then after like some time she was very friendly and very warm and so i called that a good time, so there would be a few days where she would be good so so to say.

[20:45] Okay so i mean it was pretty continual abuse or or hostility.

[20:50] Towards you.

[20:50] Right or contempt i guess contempt is probably a better.

[20:53] Yeah yeah that's uh i think that's better word for it.

[20:59] And I'm sorry, go ahead. You were about to say.

[21:02] Yeah, that I wasn't like, I didn't have rights that much. I didn't, I didn't get any like responsibility for myself. I think like I wasn't allowed to go to my friends' houses or go outside after school with my friends that much or things like that. I remember that.

[21:31] I guess your friends didn't come over either, right? To your house?

[21:35] Yeah, they didn't, Right.

[21:40] Okay, So did you have any friends? Did you make any friends at school?

[21:46] Yeah, I had a few And through preschool, middle school I had quite a few We had a friend group And I wasn't lonely or anything think and the school was like the best part of my day so I really liked going to school of course I didn't like getting up in the morning but my friends were at school and this was the time I felt the best but in high school when everyone went their own ways I had I still had a few friends so I never was like truly alone I guess just in the recent years when the grown-up Things are coming in between and everyone is busy.

[22:30] Childhood Friendships and Relationships

[22:31] Then I felt a little lonely. But yeah, in the middle school and I had friends.

[22:38] And did you play any sports?

[22:43] No, but I did go to an acting school. thing it was like a little in my school there was a like an acting class or like after in fact theater kids yeah yeah yeah and it was part of that and it was the it was the most fun thing i've ever done because the people are amazing and yeah it was so funny being there so yeah i did that.

[23:14] And what about dating in your teens?

[23:19] Yeah, I did date. I think I was about 14 and 15. When I was 14, I got into a relationship with an 18-year-old man, I guess you have to say. and that didn't go very well. It was not a long distance, but we still lived in different cities.

[23:47] How did you meet him?

[23:50] It was after school. There was some kind of event in the school building and we met there through mutual friends.

[24:00] Teenage Relationship and Emotional Manipulation

[24:01] What the hell were you doing dating an adult with 14?

[24:06] Um he seems.

[24:07] Like you're doing this thing to me like like i don't have a 15 year old daughter and and you're like oh yeah well you know of course i had this relationship but the only issue was that it was slightly long distance i'm like that's not the only issue that.

[24:20] Wasn't the only issue but unfortunately at the time it was like i couldn't even like think that That something was wrong. And well.

[24:33] He didn't tell me. Sorry he pursued you I assume right.

[24:38] I guess. Not that much. I mean. We communicated like. Back and forth. A lot of times. But if I think back then. Yeah. I think he was like. A little bit more. Yeah he pursued. me a little more than I did him, I guess. But I really liked him.

[25:04] Did the community know? Didn't friends, parents, like, did anybody know?

[25:09] Yeah, everyone knew.

[25:11] So your parents knew?

[25:12] No one even petted an eye.

[25:16] So your parents knew as well?

[25:18] Yeah, I invited them. actually uh that i'm sorry you just cut.

[25:28] Out for a second there you invited him.

[25:31] Yeah i invited him over sometimes i think maybe i didn't but i knew that i know that my mother met him definitely my father too because he and two of his friends that i also had was friends with uh made a surprise birthday party for me okay well i'm sorry i'm sorry do.

[25:53] You have any feelings about this are you just talking to me like you're reading off a laundry list like yes well you know i was 14 he was an adult.

[26:00] It was so long ago like i don't feel used or anything i just think it's like weird that maybe no one but an eye i don't know how to feel about it i don't i'm not resentful or anything i don't carry any trauma i don't think so at least from not that age difference.

[26:25] Okay, sorry, was it a sexual relationship as well?

[26:29] No, there was touching and this kind of stuff but it never went that far because even in my younger teenage mind I was like okay that would be too far.

[26:44] Okay.

[26:44] Setting Boundaries in a Relationship

[26:45] So yeah I was the one that put like a line there. But yeah, we were in a relationship like half a year and then he died. Sorry, I did the laughing thing. But yeah, I just don't know how to react to that because everyone always is like, oh, no, you poor thing. And I don't really think I am.

[27:10] So was he died because he was killed by your father? Because that would be my first.

[27:15] No, I'm just kidding.

[27:15] So what happened? How did he die?

[27:19] I dumped him through Dex and he went missing. He just walked off at one point and then they found him drowned. So it was like a week later after I dumped him. But to be honest, I didn't feel much about his death.

[27:41] Sorry, I don't want to put connections here that aren't there. But is it your perception that you broke up with him and he killed himself?

[27:51] Uh, it, uh, It might be a possibility, but I'm not sure.

[27:57] I mean, it's pretty close together, isn't it?

[27:59] Yeah, it is close together, but I also know that he couldn't swim, so he also just might have...

[28:06] Well, then just stay away from the water!

[28:08] Well, maybe, yeah.

[28:09] I mean, there's lots of people who can't swim, and, you know, I can't fly a plane, so I don't fly planes.

[28:16] Yeah, well, he might have, but, yeah, it's actually, if I think about it, then... the thing is that he always like he didn't threaten to kill himself but he always like said things oh that in a few years when you're 18 and then and i will come to your birthday and in two days i will die and i will say no i won't let you what what do you mean and he said no it would Would we already be done or something?

[28:48] Okay, what? Sorry, you keep dropping these things like they make sense. I don't know what that means. So, I'm sorry, you do keep touching something with the microphone. It keeps going in my ear.

[29:01] I'm sorry.

[29:01] So, are you saying that when you were dating him, he would say, well, you turn 18, I'll come to your birthday party, and then I'll be dead two days later?

[29:10] Basically, yeah.

[29:11] I don't know what that is. I mean, why would he say that? that what is this i.

[29:14] Don't know does he mean i'm gonna kill myself.

[29:17] When i'm 22 and you're 18 or like i don't know what this means i.

[29:21] Don't know what that meant like he would just say uh these things and that i i didn't ask what it meant because in my young mind i was like oh no i need to help him i need to i need to prevent that i can't lose him like uh so i didn't ask what it meant but he always like told me he can see like and dirty like something supernatural so i was i don't know it was not a good relationship he was very manipulative i think so.

[29:52] What else uh what else happened in the relationship that.

[29:57] Was negative he touched me and i wasn't really for it but i came around let's just say that so.

[30:09] Do you mean like fashionably uh that that sort of way.

[30:13] Uh yeah like in a sexual way yeah.

[30:16] Yeah okay Yeah.

[30:18] That was something. Then I don't really recall much else. I know that he manipulated me because I was 14, 15 and he was 18.

[30:35] 18, 19, right? If you're going to give you a year.

[30:37] You have to give him a year, right? Yeah.

[30:39] And how was he manipulative?

[30:42] Of he always told me that uh well he can see entities and supernatural things and he knows when things are gonna happen that was one thing and the other thing was that he knows human behavior he's read a psychology book and he's really into psychology so he knows when i want something or what i want or what i'm thinking and things like that so and.

[31:07] What do you mean by entities, the ghosts and devils? I don't know.

[31:12] The way he explained it was like that everything, like living or not living, has like a soul, I think. I don't know. It was weird. So he was insane? Yeah.

[31:27] No, no, I mean, I don't want to laugh about this, because it's pretty serious stuff. Yeah, I know. Was he schizophrenic? Did he have visions? Like, I don't... And it's hard to say, of course, so many years later, but I guess not that many years, 10 years since you met him. But was he like crazy?

[31:47] His behavior wasn't crazy.

[31:51] Unless it was suicide, which is pretty dysfunctional.

[31:54] Well, yeah. Yeah, but I can't recall if the birthday death thing was a vision that he had or if it was something just he told me.

[32:08] But he was wrong because he said he's going to die two days after your 18th birthday and he may have killed himself when you were 15, right? So he was wrong.

[32:15] No, he was wrong with very many things. And I realized that like halfway into our relationship that no, he's not that... He doesn't know that much about human behavior and stuff.

[32:30] So what was it that had you break up with him?

[32:36] I grew very distant from him because he worked during summer. And I didn't get to communicate with him that much. And I didn't have... feelings for him anymore i think it was something like that the long distance killed the relationship for me i think.

[33:02] So okay and so it wasn't like his family knew your family or anybody like if he was so long distance what was he doing at your school function uh.

[33:13] Mutual friends like i don't know how they met him.

[33:17] But i mean if mutual friends say why don't you come to a high school full of kids for some social engagement, I'd be like, why am I going to a high school for the kids? I want to go to high school for the junior high. Like, what's he doing at the high school? Unless, I guess, he liked younger girls, right?

[33:35] He was actually performing. Like, the mutual friends had a performance, and he was, like, part of it.

[33:43] Okay.

[33:43] It was something like that. The event was multiple performances, and my friend group was, like, one of them. So he was there. So he had like a purpose to be there, not just to lurk around.

[33:58] Okay. So you go out with him for six months. It's kind of distant. He's a bit creepy and weird, if I understand it correctly. And then you text him and you say, I don't want to go out anymore. Is that right?

[34:12] Yeah. I want to break up and please don't contact me anymore. I'm not changing my decision.

[34:19] Right. Yeah. Was that the first time you had said, I want to end it? Or was it a slower kind of breakup? Or had you broken up and made up before?

[34:30] No, it was the first time. And I think for him, it came out of the blue.

[34:35] Yeah, I guess he thinks everything is fine because he's told him everything was fine.

[34:40] Yeah.

[34:40] Got it. Those helpful entities. That was great.

[34:44] Yeah.

[34:45] Okay, so he had a death side to him, right? Right. Like talking about dying after your 18th birthday.

[34:52] Yeah, he was like, I think it's safe to say that he was actually depressed.

[34:58] Yeah. Yeah. I think that's probably fair. Fair to say.

[35:01] Yeah. So death and I think you can call it suicide ideation.

[35:08] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The effects of death. Right. The death impulse, the Thanatos. Right. OK.

[35:12] Yeah. So I think he he was like into that.

[35:16] And your parents met him, you said, right? Yes.

[35:19] And I even invited him to my grandparents' house, like my grandma's house in the countryside, and spent like a week with him there. So he was like living for a week with me and my mom.

[35:35] Oh, so he spent a week with your grandparents with you?

[35:38] Yeah, me, my grandmother, grandma's partner, and my mom were there.

[35:46] Okay, so your mom had a real chance to evaluate this guy, right?

[35:49] Yes.

[35:50] She really liked him. Sorry, go ahead.

[35:53] She really liked him.

[35:55] God, these are terrible people.

[35:58] Yes, I know. Sorry.

[35:59] Emotional Disconnect and Traumatic Experiences

[36:00] Well, but the funny thing is, like, you have no emotion about any of this.

[36:05] Yes.

[36:06] So, you know, I don't know how to help people who don't have any emotions. Because then we're just like, dum-de-dum, this bad thing happened. And then this guy statutorily molested me because I was 14 and he was an adult. And then, you know, he probably killed himself. And my parents are terrible people. You know, like, I don't know if there's no emotional connection. I'm not sure what we're doing here other than avoiding your life.

[36:29] Yeah.

[36:31] You feel nothing about it? You feel nothing really about any of this?

[36:38] I think we're barking up the wrong tree, to be honest. because the topic with my ex-boyfriend and his death has always been like a colder one for me like when it just happened it was like, affected me but now i don't think it's that much but at the moment my life has, other things i think and you said you.

[37:06] Said that you've been really tired for 10 years in your email right.

[37:10] Yes okay you're 24 yes when.

[37:14] Did you start dating your boyfriend.

[37:17] When i was 14 how many years ago 10 i mean maybe it's a coincidence maybe.

[37:25] But you know.

[37:26] Everyone says.

[37:26] Oh steph i know you've done this thousands of times really really well but.

[37:30] You're probably wrong.

[37:30] About this one.

[37:31] Oh yeah i mean i'm not i'm not going wild.

[37:34] Here right i'm not just.

[37:35] Making Making things up.

[37:36] Or stabbing randomly.

[37:38] Yeah. Well, I've always thought that my mother is the main reason I'm tired. Like dealing with her emotions is too demanding. And so I was working maybe at the wrong tree.

[37:57] So, okay. Okay, so you're calling me because you think I have some skill or expertise in this area of connections and emotions and so on, right?

[38:09] Yeah, I want another perspective or...

[38:13] Okay, so...

[38:13] Actually, this helps me because I...

[38:16] Just for the purposes of this call, though, I think you need to surrender a little bit to the expertise, right? Like, if I go to the dentist, I don't argue with my dentist, right?

[38:29] Yeah, that's not a good thing to do.

[38:34] So, you may be expending a lot of effort in self-control. as opposed to surrendering to something or someone else. Like, for me, I surrendered to philosophy, and of course, my wife has great authority with me, and so life's just easier, right?

[38:50] Okay.

[38:51] And so, this is not foundationally about your ex-boyfriend, who was a creep, and a weirdo, and possibly insane. And, as you say, depressed, Preston, you know, it seems almost for certain that he killed himself. To me, I don't know. I don't know. And, you know, a guy who's fondling, an adult male who's fondling the genitals of a 14-year-old girl, the fact that he killed himself, I don't view as anything negative to the universe whatsoever.

[39:28] Yeah.

[39:29] I'm just telling you straight up as a human being and as a father in particular.

[39:33] Uh it's not quite good.

[39:35] Riddance but it's certainly not like oh dear oh dear.

[39:39] Yeah i mean the thing is that um this like sexual molesting uh wasn't first in my life so maybe that's why i don't because i kind of enjoyed it maybe uh well that doesn't but that doesn't yeah but uh i had like um i mean children like.

[40:01] Candy too that doesn't mean that it's good for them, right?

[40:04] Yeah.

[40:04] So what happened before with regards to this?

[40:08] This topic, yeah. When I was very little, like my mother would drop me off at my grandma's house, in the summer and like that. And then I didn't realize anything. I was just there with my cousin and we were with friends and had a lot of fun. my grandma's partner, I can, I think I can safely say that he's a pedophile because he said really weird things to me. Also commented that I am sexy, like to a child that's not even 10. I can't remember how old I was. Then he would like slap my ass. And to the point where I like, had to turn to face him while like going past him but his hands were like so long that he would still slap me so i felt like really unsafe and i remember feeling you.

[41:21] You were really unsafe.

[41:22] Yeah yeah you were.

[41:23] In grave grave danger.

[41:25] Yeah so yeah but and did Did your grandmother.

[41:31] Ever know about this? I don't know.

[41:36] Because the slapping, I think my grandmother saw it because she did it publicly. Not publicly outside, but in the house, in the kitchen.

[41:49] So he could do it when she was around?

[41:50] Yeah. And I know it because my mother once saw it and she flipped out and intervened. and that and actually i remember the exact feeling i had it was surprised like oh she's doing something helpful yeah that she was actually protecting me i i was so surprised that she was actually protecting me so yeah that was it but i remember one time that i was in a room with him and sitting on the bed and for some reason the lights were like off, but you could see a little light from the corridor.

[42:34] And he like said, I can't even remember what he was telling me, but I think he said like he loves me and something. And while other times I didn't even sense like, oh no, this is wrong or something. I was just uncomfortable. Then this was the moment where every like cell in my body wanted to like run from that room. but since he was an adult and nothing had happened I just sat there so luckily in like few minutes my grandma came into the room and asked like innocently oh what are you doing here like what are you doing to doing here and the partner said that oh we just are having our own conversations and i just like quickly stood up and walked to my grandma and then passed her to like exit the room so i've always carried that i have always remembered that even if other things are like slowly coming back to me and that's something that's how i know that this is not a a good person so yeah that was scary so.

[43:58] So he was like i love you and and all of that and that's.

[44:02] Childhood Trauma and Emotional Manipulation

[44:03] Yeah he was freaked out right uh actually even not that he loved me but he was like telling me it in a way that he wanted a response he wanted me to respond to him oh i love you too or something I remember one time he was crying and said that he loved me so he was like guilting me to saying that I love him too but I didn't I said like oh yeah I have like three little love eggs for you or something like that like like a child mind I wanted to some like I didn't want him to cry but I didn't want to tell him that I love him because I didn't.

[44:44] Wow, okay. Well, of course, of course.

[44:47] Yeah. So that's what I remember about that at the moment. Yeah, there were some other things, but the bottom line is that it wasn't safe at home. It wasn't actually safe in my grandma's house. But at least in my grandma's house, no one abused me emotionally, and I had my best friend with me there.

[45:16] Wow and this was your mother's mother.

[45:18] Yes and.

[45:21] After this all of this and after your mother knew about all of this.

[45:28] Did you still.

[45:30] Keep going to your grandmother's house.

[45:31] Yes so your mother was serving you up she knew.

[45:36] That he like did she know he was creepy or evil or.

[45:39] Uh she like i said she saw the slapping thing yeah and uh now like a few days ago actually i found out that she didn't know anymore like she thought that okay i intervened and now everything is fine but a few days ago i told her like everything i could remember and then she said ew that's disgusting Like, yeah, not the big reaction, maybe, that you should give your child if she's been molested or something. But, yeah, I take from that that she didn't know.

[46:31] She didn't know. Wow. But she should have checked. If she sees this creep around slapping your butt and so on, and she's outraged about it, then she knows you're in danger, right?

[46:42] Well, in theory, you would think so, yeah. Right. Not that time.

[46:50] Right, okay.

[46:53] Yeah.

[46:54] Family Dynamics and Interpersonal Relationships

[46:54] So, do you know a lot of times, I don't know obviously for sure, but you know a lot of times why... this pedophile, your step-grandfather, something like that?

[47:08] Yeah, something like that.

[47:11] Were they married?

[47:14] No. And he wanted me to call him grandfather, but I never did. I didn't want to call him uncle.

[47:21] So the question is, if he's the kind of hideous human being who sexually attracted the children, why would he be with your grandmother, right?

[47:33] Mm-hmm.

[47:35] So there is a terrible bargain, I don't obviously know for sure, but there's a terrible bargain that happens in some relationships where the man provides financial security to a woman, and in return, the woman consciously or unconsciously delivers children to his unholy appetites.

[47:51] Oh, good. I think my grandma was richer than him, but he was, like, very charming.

[47:58] Yeah, it could be non-monetary, it could be emotional companionship, that kind of thing, right?

[48:03] Yeah, of course. Because I just think he has some control over my grandmother. My grandmother had my mom already, and I think my mom was grown up when she met the uncle or the partner. But I'm not sure if I was born yet. I might have been, but I'm not sure if I was. Nor my cousin.

[48:38] Right, okay.

[48:41] So I don't think if that kind of trait was going on there, but...

[48:45] Well, it may have involved you alone. Obviously, there would have been other kids around, right?

[48:52] There was just me and my cousin.

[48:56] Okay. And what's your cousin's age?

[49:02] Uh, 22, 23, something like that.

[49:07] Okay.

[49:07] She was a year and a half younger than me.

[49:10] So your grandmother knew, but didn't do anything.

[49:14] I think she just turned a blind eye or denied.

[49:17] And your mother knew, did something, but never followed up and still sent you over there. I mean, as you say, your creepy adult boyfriend was... Was over with you and your grandmother for a week, right?

[49:35] Yes.

[49:36] Please tell me you had separate rooms.

[49:40] Yeah, we did. My mother didn't allow us to sleep together. But I would say that it was ineffective because I was still, to the late hours of the night, I was like with him in his room privately. So yeah, it was very effective that we couldn't like sleep, sleep together.

[50:07] Right, right. Okay.

[50:08] But yeah, that was where she like drew the line.

[50:13] Awareness and Accountability

[50:14] And did your father, your father met him, I guess more briefly. And did your father have any suspicion of the sexual activity this adult was engaging in with his 14 year old daughter?

[50:29] I actually can't remember my father at all in the context in that context, like i don't know how much he knew about that relationship i do think he knew that i was in a relationship but i don't know if he even knew the age of that man like okay Yeah. Like I said, he was quite distant in my teenage years and I think almost to the adult years.

[51:00] Right. Okay. Okay. So you're 15 and your boyfriend, who can't swim, goes into a river.

[51:14] Yeah. Right.

[51:15] And what happens with, I mean, I wouldn't even call that dating. That's just straight up molestation, exploitation as far as I'm concerned. But what happened after that with regards to your romantic life?

[51:31] I went into a relationship like a month later with one of his friends.

[51:37] So you're basically telling me this story doesn't get any better at all, right? It just keeps getting worse.

[51:43] The friend was like 14 and I was 15.

[51:47] Oh, okay. So at least he wasn't an adult.

[51:49] Yes, yes, yes. And that was like much healthier and I feel that it was like much healthier. He was also very like Not even manipulative, but just a liar, but still, it was healthier.

[52:08] Okay, and how long did that last for?

[52:11] Half a year, like six months.

[52:13] Right, and what happened there?

[52:17] Like in the relationship, or why it ended?

[52:20] Well, you said he was a liar, although not as toxic and insane, I assume, as the other guy. but what happened to the to end it right i guess you were sort of 15 or 16.

[52:32] I could have caught him in a lie and then he coast ghosted me for like a few days and then i called his mother and he basically said don't call this number anymore and hang up so i knew it was over, Then the next day or the day after, he wrote to me that, I'm sorry, I thought you would be mad. I didn't have the courage to tell you that I want to break up.

[53:03] Boy, that's a chilling imitation of this guy. Like the contempt, the, oh, I'm so sorry. Yeah. Oh, that's cold. I'm not saying it's wrong. I'm just saying I'm getting this body chill just from that imitation.

[53:20] I'm sorry.

[53:21] No, no, don't apologize. I mean, I'm sure he deserved it. But yeah, listening to women imitate men sometimes makes my testosterone level drop, but that's fine. I'll just go exercise and it'll go back up. But yeah, that's quite intense. Okay. So, but you didn't want to get back together. Is that right?

[53:43] No, he left me. I begged him.

[53:46] No, no, but he wanted you to come back, right?

[53:49] Transition to Teenage Relationships

[53:49] No, he wanted to break up.

[53:53] Oh, sorry. I thought he ghosted you and then he wanted to get back.

[54:00] No, he just said that he didn't have the courage to tell me that he wanted to break up.

[54:06] I'm sorry. You're going to have to rewind me through this. I've lost the thread. Okay. So you caught him in a lie and then he ghosted you, right?

[54:14] Yes. Okay. I called his mother.

[54:17] You called his mother.

[54:18] Yeah, his mother gave him the phone and he said, don't contact this phone anymore and hang up.

[54:25] Right. And then?

[54:26] I was very sad and knew it was over. Then he texted me through Facebook and said that I am sorry. I didn't have the courage to tell you that I want to break up. But we can still be like friends.

[54:43] Oh, yeah. Yeah. Okay. Got it. So it was.

[54:46] Yeah.

[54:47] Okay. And after that?

[54:50] And after that, I went to class.

[54:53] No, no, I'm sorry. After that relationship as a whole, did you date again for a while or was it soon?

[54:58] No, actually, it was seven years before my current partner. Like, it was a long time. I did want to date, but I just didn't find anyone. But yeah, it was a long time.

[55:11] Right. And did you didn't come close to dating or was it like maybe, maybe or just nobody?

[55:20] I thought it was nobody but when I like because I thought that nobody wanted me but when I talked my experiences with my partner he said oh he wanted you like he was up for it so I guess it was just like I wasn't feeling it okay yeah I didn't find someone that I wanted a relationship with.

[55:44] Meeting Current Partner and Health Challenges

[55:45] Okay, so then in your early 20s you meet your current partner and how did you meet him?

[55:51] Through a mutual friend. We played board games and he said that the first night he really liked me and after that we almost coincidentally, saw each other at an event and after that I went to his and his friends plays to play board games and then we just chatted through discord and it went on from that right.

[56:24] And um i haven't seen a picture of you that's fine but uh how pretty would you say that you are um i know it's always easy to say well friends tell me but you know everybody kind of has a sense yeah.

[56:35] That's right um can i ask the reason you're asking maybe i can like pinpoint what aspects you're looking for.

[56:45] Sure uh well i'm uh you you say that you're sort of exhausted all the time and can't have a job and have no energy and so on right yeah now i mean you're a very nice young lady and it's great to chat and all of that but if a man is looking for a wife the mother of his children you know somebody to run the household i mean you wouldn't be top of the list right because you have yeah issues right yeah i mean he didn't know it.

[57:11] Was that serious at.

[57:13] The beginning.

[57:13] He didn't know it was that serious at the beginning.

[57:17] Sorry how do you know uh.

[57:20] We talked i uh told him like the second time we met that i have neurasthenia it's a chronic exhaustion.

[57:26] Well no sorry but how would he know how serious it is if you don't tell him.

[57:34] That's a good point.

[57:35] No, it's like, you know, he doesn't know I've had my appendix out. Well, how would he know.

[57:40] Right? Okay, yeah.

[57:43] So did you, hey, young lady, did you minimize your condition to get the guy?

[57:49] I always try not to, but I always minimize the things.

[57:54] You said he didn't know. I'm not, you know, hey, I mean, all's fair in love and war. I'm just curious.

[58:02] I don't think so.

[58:04] Well then what did what didn't he know because oh you're the only person who could tell him right yeah and you'd already been you'd already been tired for like what eight years or something right very badly right so what did you tell him versus what he didn't know like what what didn't he know.

[58:22] I told him that i can like work two hours hours a day and that's my limit in and that i am always tired but when we started living together i realized that even like, chores at home are difficult for me so that was the thing that he didn't know that.

[58:46] Okay so why why is he with you and i'm not saying you're not a wonderful person i'm sure that you are but why would he shack up with a chronically ill and fatigued woman.

[59:01] I had a big ass.

[59:03] You had a big ass?

[59:05] Yes, these are his words.

[59:07] Okay.

[59:08] When I asked him.

[59:09] Whatever fetish he might have for the Brazilian butt lift. I mean, that's not particularly great, right? That's not going to make you feel much loved?

[59:20] Actually, he told me that I was like the fourth single woman he had met in years.

[59:28] So and i had a big ad and wasn't in year i don't know what that means is he your age uh.

[59:35] He was he's three years older than me.

[59:38] Okay uh.

[59:40] So that was one thing and when we were at the board game night he uh liked my personality too i wasn't like.

[59:50] No no listen i i get the personality thing i mean you're very charming and and a great conversationist i get the personality thing and And I'm certainly not trying to take anything away from that.

[59:59] Yeah, that's what he said.

[1:00:01] No, no, but that's what friends are for. No, seriously. I mean, maybe you don't get to grab the grabtastic butt or anything like that. But that's what friends are for. He likes your personality. Does he want to have kids?

[1:00:15] Yeah, he does.

[1:00:16] So what's he doing?

[1:00:19] He's trying to help me.

[1:00:21] No, but he can't help you. How can he help you?

[1:00:25] Trying to fix it.

[1:00:26] How can he fix it? You don't even know what the problem is.

[1:00:32] I don't know.

[1:00:34] No, but it's an important question, right? Okay, let me ask you this, right? I mean, do you want to have kids at some point in your life?

[1:00:41] Yeah, I do.

[1:00:42] Okay, so you want kids and you want your kids to be happy. So you have a son, you love your son, he's a great kid, he grows up and he says, mom, I've met this girl, she's fun, but she passes out regularly, she can't do any chores, she's exhausted all the time, she can't work, should I move in with her?

[1:01:11] Uh i would leave the decisions decision like up to him but i.

[1:01:16] Would no no no no no you don't have that option because you're a parent now your parents didn't give you any let me finish your parents didn't give you any good advice but that's no excuse for you so you're a mother your son comes to you and says i've met this woman i'm not going to show you a picture of her butt because my phone is only so big so she's you know she's she's fun but she's she's got a really messed up family, and you know she was molested repeatedly to some degree as as a child she has massive health issues that nobody can figure out she can't do any chores she she's not in you're in no state to have kids right is that right at.

[1:01:58] The moment yeah.

[1:01:59] Well at the moment it's been for the last 10 years in terms of of energy levels not in terms of like whether you should or shouldn't have kids but in terms of energy levels right yeah.

[1:02:08] But my energy levels are getting better a little but yeah i'm not near nearly there where i could have kids at the moment okay.

[1:02:19] So and and there's no path to to that right like if you said um oh yes i've been to see see an expert and i don't know thyroid seems to have have something to do with energy i'm no doctor i don't understand any of it but you know there's this thyroid condition i take these pills and you know my energy is soft or whatever right but none of that has been happening right.

[1:02:40] Yeah i recently did the sleep study like and i don't know the results yet.

[1:02:47] Yeah maybe something but but it's been 10 years right it's been 10 years and you've been an adult now for six years right, yes okay so you've been an adult for six years have you had a full blood panel done have you had a full workup done have you had all of your minerals and nutrition and various things checked.

[1:03:11] I think so, yeah, mostly. My heart, my blood, my physical.

[1:03:16] Okay, so you don't know what the problem is.

[1:03:19] Yes.

[1:03:20] And, you know, maybe the energy is getting a little better, but even if the energy is getting a little better, you still can't do much, right? I mean, that's your email. That's why I gave you the call the same day, right? Because it seemed quite important, right? You said you've had trouble. I can't push myself. No, listen. You said in your email, I'm having trouble finding the will to live. Did I have that wrong?

[1:03:51] No.

[1:03:52] Okay, so what are you minimizing for me? You can't say, Steph, I have no energy and I can't find the will to live and then say, it's not bad. I'm getting better.

[1:04:07] I just want to have a home.

[1:04:09] I'm sorry?

[1:04:10] It goes away.

[1:04:12] Listen, I understand that, and I hope that for you, too. I really do. But let's get back to you and your son.

[1:04:23] Okay.

[1:04:24] All right? And I'm not trying to do anything to harm your relationship at all.

[1:04:27] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[1:04:28] I'm just trying to understand where your life is.

[1:04:32] Okay.

[1:04:32] Your son comes to you and says, there's this woman who has a mysterious ailment, wherein she's kind of crippled, right? I mean, that's fair to say. I mean, in terms of getting things done in life, right?

[1:04:47] Well, yeah.

[1:04:48] Okay. We have no idea if she can ever really have children, given her energy levels. She can't really do any chores, and she can't have a job. And she can't go to school. mom, should I move in with her?

[1:05:04] No.

[1:05:05] Okay, now, and he would say no, no, but she's really nice.

[1:05:10] But is that what you want for your future? Like, do you want to have kids?

[1:05:16] So, this is my question.

[1:05:21] Yeah.

[1:05:24] And how long have you guys been living together?

[1:05:27] A few months.

[1:05:29] Relationship Expectations and Realities

[1:05:30] Writes, Is it fair to him and his life goals at the moment?

[1:05:40] Maybe not.

[1:05:42] Well, I don't know. Listen, I don't know because I'm trying to figure out. I don't know, obviously, what's wrong with you. I'm no doctor. I'm no psychiatrist. I'm no, right? So I don't know. But if I look at the times. Sorry, go ahead.

[1:05:56] He has actually told me that if I don't get rid of my neurasthenia, then he would have to break up with me because he wants a big house and he wants kids and he's aware that So what's he doing?

[1:06:15] What's he doing moving in with you saying that the condition nobody knows how to solve is a deal breaker?

[1:06:28] He i don't know and.

[1:06:41] Is somebody whose judgment is not and listen i'm not trying to say you won't make someone a great wife i'm not trying to say you won't make.

[1:06:47] Your kids.

[1:06:48] A great mother or anything like that but is this does this guy have the kind of judgment that's going to make him a good father.

[1:06:54] So who suggested.

[1:06:59] That you move in together.

[1:07:03] It kind of happened no.

[1:07:06] No no come on.

[1:07:07] Like he i think it was him i is yeah we live in different cities like we lived in different cities so i came over here and like uh at the start of our relationship or like a month into our relationship he said that he really supports that the people People move in together quickly and get married quickly and things like that.

[1:07:37] And was he aware of the scope of your neurasthenia at this point?

[1:07:44] Somewhat, yeah, but not all of it, because I didn't live here. I didn't have to do the chores.

[1:07:55] Well, so you were keeping some things from him, if I understand this.

[1:08:00] Not deliberately.

[1:08:02] Okay, come on. Are we really going to play these kinds of word games? Of course, deliberately.

[1:08:10] Oh, no.

[1:08:11] I mean, are you possessed?

[1:08:13] No.

[1:08:13] Do you have a voice box that screams out things or hides things against your will?

[1:08:19] I didn't think of that.

[1:08:22] No, I'm sorry. Sorry, you listen to this show, you're a very intelligent woman, and you are, right?

[1:08:27] Oh, no.

[1:08:28] So please, I'm sorry. You can go rubber bones on me all you want, but I just won't accept it.

[1:08:33] Sorry.

[1:08:33] You've got free will, you've got choice, and all of that, right? Listen, I understand. I minimize my condition.

[1:08:40] Yes.

[1:08:40] Yeah, you minimize your condition, and I understand that. We all put our best foot forward in dating, right?

[1:08:45] Yeah.

[1:08:46] So you minimized your condition to have him move in. So how did you minimize it? And again, I'm not judging here. I just want to understand.

[1:08:54] Right?

[1:08:54] So how did you minimize your condition over the courtship phase, back before you moved in?

[1:09:02] I didn't talk about things that I can't do. I talked about things that I can do. do so I talked about that I can do two hours of work a day and I am managing my life and it's better in the recent years and it's getting better but I didn't tell him that at my family home I, I'm not doing much chores or any of them because I just don't have the energy. And I just didn't tell him these kinds of things that I didn't tell him things that are left undone because of my energy.

[1:09:53] Relationship and just did he know that you had um suicidal thoughts or i'm not saying suicidal like you're stepping off a bridge i mean just how can i go on kind of thoughts did he know that before you moved in together uh no and does he know that now yes.

[1:10:12] Okay i have told him that i I just like can't take it anymore or I'm just so tired. And he has asked me like, what does it mean? Like he doesn't understand what it means. And actually a lot of times even I don't know what it means because like I said, it feels like I don't, I just don't have the energy to live, but I don't want to like die.

[1:10:42] Right, right. Right. There's a, there's a terrifying line from an old Sam Cooke song. Uh, it's, it's been too hard living, but I'm afraid to die. Cause I don't know what's up there beyond the sky. I listened to the burden sister. Listen, the burden, burden that you're carrying is events and brutal and scary. And I massively sympathize with that. And the fact that you've minimized things to get some companionship and love, I completely understand. so I'm not some bearded biblical character hurling thunderbolts of moral righteousness I understand, now you said is it true that your energy is because I gotta be a little skeptical right is it true that your energy is getting better living with this fellow?

[1:11:39] Yeah that is true because like when I started living here I I almost couldn't do anything. I was so tired when I came from my family home. But now I do chores. I wash the dishes. And there are a lot of dishes. I wash them.

[1:12:02] Why are there a lot of dishes? You guys have giant dinner parties?

[1:12:05] No.

[1:12:06] Are you inviting the entities over for snacks? Sorry, go on.

[1:12:12] No, we just...

[1:12:14] Oh, I know, because you have to have a big enough meal to feed your ass. Anyway, just kidding. Sorry. Last butt joke, I promise, for at least five minutes. All right. Sorry. Go ahead.

[1:12:23] Okay. That was a good one.

[1:12:25] Yeah, yeah.

[1:12:26] We just, neither of us like doing the dishes, so we are doing them if we need to.

[1:12:33] Ah, okay. Spoiler, nobody likes doing dishes. So just so you know.

[1:12:36] Yeah, so I do them when I cook or something. So they're right there and I do them.

[1:12:41] Was he surprised when he moved in with you to see what your energy level was like?

[1:12:48] I don't think so. At least he didn't show it. But he did tell me that the thing that he most appreciates about the partner is how she gets things done, like if she gets shit done.

[1:13:06] Wait sorry what he most appreciates about a woman is how much she gets done and then he dates a girl and moves in with neurasthenia what yeah, what I most value about a woman is a tiny button I told you it wasn't even going to be five minutes so, that's his like efficiency and hard work and all of that is his big one of his big values and then he moves in with a girl who's got neurasthenia yeah he holds.

[1:13:33] That I think he hopes that I make his living easier. Like I do chores for him and he works. So I don't have to work. He has told me that he doesn't expect me to work, but then he expects me to do things that are equal to his work. Yeah, of course.

[1:13:54] So you don't have an income, is that right?

[1:13:59] I have a little income because of the neurasthenia.

[1:14:03] Oh, disability kind of thing, right?

[1:14:05] Yeah, kind of.

[1:14:07] Okay so.

[1:14:08] I have a little income but the uh the money is not the problem or it hasn't been the problem like for a.

[1:14:15] Judgment and Relationship Dynamics

[1:14:15] Very long time eventually oh no it will be and sorry how long have you guys been living together uh.

[1:14:22] A few months a.

[1:14:23] Few months sorry you mentioned that okay like it will be because we men like we're happy to pay the bills of course right but yeah you know there's things that you have to do as well right yeah otherwise like you have to do labor for a man who's paying the bills otherwise he's paying for sex and that's gross yes.

[1:14:42] No don't want that.

[1:14:45] No we don't we don't want that because that's gross right because uh yeah a man a man if the woman is is not raising his kids running his household making his life easier doing his taxes like whatever whatever she's doing that allows him to focus on work and make himself more productive then he's just at At some point, he's going to click on him. It's like, oh, I'm just paying for sex.

[1:15:05] And that's not good.

[1:15:06] Right?

[1:15:07] Yeah. I'm in a difficult position here because, like I said, my energy levels were getting better, but then I broke my leg.

[1:15:18] What? How did you break your leg? Yeah.

[1:15:21] I, my partner bought a land and there was a house there, a land, like with some old barns and houses.

[1:15:34] Oh, some land. Okay. Sorry. Sorry. Got it.

[1:15:36] Some land. And we were like looking at it and going around and then I slipped my leg between two like wooden blanks and it shattered my ankle oh my gosh yeah i i'm probably going to be limping like until the end of the year but this was like really hard because now i'm, disabled basically maybe so oh my gosh so he has it sorry.

[1:16:14] Is it the case because you've been quite inactive for quite some time. Does that, have you had bone scans or do you think it has anything to do with that?

[1:16:22] No, I think it was just a really unfortunate accident. I have had like bone fractures and breaks before, but it's not because I was that inactive.

[1:16:36] Did you have to get like bolts and stuff? Like it was a really bad break? You said shattered, right?

[1:16:40] Yeah, I have, I think, like six metal screws in and one metal plate.

[1:16:49] My gosh.

[1:16:51] Yeah, so that happened.

[1:16:53] How long ago did that happen?

[1:16:55] A month ago.

[1:16:58] Are you still in, I assume, still in some pain?

[1:17:01] Yeah, I can't. i don't i am not allowed to step on my leg like put body weight on it but i have to move it but so it gets back to mobility oh.

[1:17:13] Yeah no the rehab.

[1:17:14] Stuff can.

[1:17:15] Be tough yeah for sure.

[1:17:16] Yeah massive.

[1:17:17] Sympathies for that as well.

[1:17:18] Yeah but it's been extremely hard because the moment i got the energy to do like, chores i get i can't i can't walk to do that chores i uh i have i'm.

[1:17:35] Sorry to interrupt i'm still trying to figure out like some some some things in life are just an accident.

[1:17:39] Yes but not everything yes and.

[1:17:43] And this could just be a complete accident it's a little tough for me to figure out you stepped between two planks and shattered your ankle.

[1:17:50] Yeah i didn't look where i I was stepping like okay the full story is that we were there with two of our friends and they climbed a wall and he climbed the wall and then I thought oh maybe it's fun I will climb the wall and I climbed and halfway there I thought nah that's not a good idea so I stepped back and And it had rained, so there were two planks there that were wet and slippery. So I stepped back and my legs just slipped. And when I looked at my leg, there was no pain, but it was like this figure. Yeah, so it was definitely not even subconsciously deliberate.

[1:18:43] No, I get that, but you still decide to climb up the wall, right? Now, aren't you physically quite weak, though?

[1:18:52] Yeah, but...

[1:18:53] I mean, you don't exercise, right?

[1:18:55] Yes.

[1:18:55] You don't do weights, you don't run, and I'm not criticizing you for that, but aren't you physically quite weak?

[1:19:03] Yeah, and that's why I decided to come down halfway there.

[1:19:08] Right, but why are you decided to go up when you're physically weak?

[1:19:12] It seemed fun. I wanted to, like, I know I have climb things, so I thought it would be okay. There was a door there, so I thought I can use that as a support and like a leeway to put my things.

[1:19:26] Okay, so when was the last time you did something physically strenuous like that?

[1:19:33] Oh, God. I have no idea. Yeah.

[1:19:38] Right. So you decided to do something physically strenuous in a dangerous environment when you haven't done it in probably 10 or more years, right?

[1:19:46] Yeah.

[1:19:47] So this is the judgment thing.

[1:19:51] Yes, that's the .

[1:19:53] Physical Injury and Psychological Origins

[1:19:54] Now, is there a part of you, and I could be wrong, is there a part of you that wanted to show him that you weren't weak, that you didn't want to be the half-disabled girlfriend?

[1:20:10] I think there's always a part of me that wants to impress him or show him that I can also do things, that I can also get the shit done, that he can rely on me. So maybe it was partly because of that.

[1:20:28] Because this was bad judgment, right? I'm not saying you're totally responsible for the accident. Of course not, right? But it was bad judgment.

[1:20:35] I would say I am.

[1:20:36] Yeah, to try to do something physically that you hadn't done since you were a kid, and you have, of course, with genuine sympathy for the neurasthenia, you're weak, right?

[1:20:48] Physically. Yeah, pretty much. I am not disabled that week. I can still walk.

[1:20:58] Well, you are now.

[1:21:00] Yeah, now I am.

[1:21:01] I mean, for six to 12 months, right?

[1:21:05] I have no idea actually how long. I just know a friend of mine that also had her leg broken, and she said that she's still limping.

[1:21:17] You said, yeah, I thought you said you might limp for the rest of the year, right?

[1:21:21] Yeah, and that's my estimate.

[1:21:23] Oh, okay. They haven't told you like recovery time or anything?

[1:21:26] Yeah, no, they haven't. They told me that I can put body weight on my leg like in June, but I have no idea how that is going to go, if it's going to hurt or what. Okay. So, yeah.

[1:21:44] Now, do you think, I know you've talked to psychologists and psychiatrists, is that right?

[1:21:49] Yeah.

[1:21:50] And has anyone, and you don't have to say anything about your sessions that you don't want to, of course, right?

[1:21:55] Yeah.

[1:21:55] It's totally voluntary. But has anyone said to you that there could be psychological origins, it could be some contradiction in your emotional life, or has anyone said to you that there could be some psychology behind your tiredness?

[1:22:17] Yeah my psychologist said that it might have like, to do with that rather than my physical health because like i said i have like something yeah okay yeah yeah because they can't find.

[1:22:36] A physical cause right.

[1:22:37] Yeah because one thing is that uh, i am getting better like we have i go to my psycho psychologist and she has seen my progress so I am getting better and it has happened after I moved out from the space where my mom and sister and father were and also that I when I was at the home in my family home uh i always slept with the three blankets i had a soft blanket a weighted blanket and a big feather blanket so i always slept like that even if it was like 20 degrees celsius in the room i slept like that and i couldn't sleep uh i think we're back okay yeah.

[1:23:40] I don't know what happened there but uh suddenly you.

[1:23:42] Were talking about.

[1:23:44] How there could be some form of psychology behind it and it was better when you moved out from your parents place and the weighted blanket situation.

[1:23:54] Yeah it like my psychologist said that it was a security reason that i didn't feel secure in the family home so I used a blanket but here in my partner's home I feel secure so I almost need no blanket sometimes so that's why I know that being in my family home had made me worse or didn't help me heal.

[1:24:33] Um okay is there anything else that i mean i assume you're calling me because the answers aren't particularly satisfying that you're getting is that right i.

[1:24:41] Just don't know what to do next i want to like well.

[1:24:45] There's no doing right i mean nobody nobody calls me for what to do i'm not a personal trainer right oh.

[1:24:51] Well yeah i just want to know how to, how to go on or on some insight or.

[1:25:01] All right do you want do you want me to how long have you been listening to my show uh.

[1:25:06] I have i listened to a few uh episodes with my partner actually and uh but not long.

[1:25:15] And how have you found have you found the conversation overall so far if you're kind of new to the this sort of approach to philosophy actually.

[1:25:22] Like really satisfying because you called me out about like minimizing my yeah.

[1:25:30] Or senior right right yeah.

[1:25:35] Or overall my suffering right and that's what i've done like whole my life because everyone has like called me a whiner or something like that.

[1:25:46] Oh no no i i i I don't consider you a whiner at all. In fact, you're doing way better than I think I would in your situation. So I, you know, I take my hat off as far as that goes, for sure.

[1:25:56] Okay. For sure.

[1:25:57] So, look, I obviously, I don't know what the problem is, but I'm going to give you a thought. And if the thought fits, we can work it some more. If the thought doesn't fit, we can abandon it completely, right? Yeah. Is an approach that's okay? That sounds good. So, sort of based upon, I listen like with rabid care, right? I'm like, I'm a sponge. I absorb everything you say. So, at the beginning of the conversation, you apologized a lot.

[1:26:23] Yeah.

[1:26:24] Right?

[1:26:24] That's something I do.

[1:26:26] No, and I sympathize. You had to apologize because you had abusive parents.

[1:26:31] Yeah.

[1:26:32] And so, you don't like to cause trouble. Because causing trouble, you have very destructive parents.

[1:26:42] Uncovering the Painful Past

[1:26:43] who abused you and scorned you. And I was really struck by that story. Your mother hits you. She reaches out for you like, oh, fine, I'll give you some comfort. You pull back and she's like, fine, don't take any.

[1:26:53] Yeah. Right.

[1:26:54] So that's no bond.

[1:26:56] Yes.

[1:26:57] Now, little girls in particular are vulnerable. I mean, you know, boys get molested as well. It's one in three girls, one in five boys. I mean, you're in tragic company, right?

[1:27:10] Yeah.

[1:27:12] So little girls are protected by the bond with the parents, in particular with the father. And you've mentioned very little about your father. He just seems like this shadowy figure on the dark side of the moon mentally.

[1:27:31] Yes, he was.

[1:27:32] So you were unprotected.

[1:27:37] Yes.

[1:27:38] Now, your step-grandfather, Creepazoid, and the 18-year-old Creepazoid, who took himself out of the equation to the tears of no one, sane, they sensed that you were unprotected. So your parents, and I'm not saying this is conscious, but your parents would paint you with a target for pedophiles.

[1:28:08] Oh, God.

[1:28:10] Because the pedophiles scan, I just finished this whole section in my book on peaceful parenting. So pedophiles scan for very apologetic, very insecure, and I don't mean that that's a personal problem, that's a natural reaction to being unprotected. you know like if i'm walking through the jungle at night and i can't see anything, i'm nervous that doesn't mean i have a problem with anxiety it means i'm in danger right so it's not any any kind there's no criticism of your personality it's a perfectly rational response yeah so all parents who withhold a bond from their children are painting them with targets for predators those predators could be sexual could be physical abuse could be bullying could It could be emotional abuse, could be molestation, you know, and so on. So all children who are unbonded with their parents, which is entirely the parent's choice, all children want to be bonded with their parents. So when your parents push you away, when they put you down, when they keep you at arm's length, they are deferring you to fucking predators. Whether they know it or not, whether they like it or not, whether they think about it or not, I don't care. They are rubbing you with marinade and throwing you into a shark tank.

[1:29:20] Oh, God. Am I wrong? Yes. No, no. I just didn't think of it that way.

[1:29:28] So you are, you know, I mean, you're like a baby zebra and the entire herd is half a mile away. And you're in thick grass and you smell lion.

[1:29:38] No.

[1:29:40] Which is why I said your parents are terrible.

[1:29:44] Yes.

[1:29:44] Because they're putting you substantially at risk.

[1:29:47] Yeah.

[1:29:48] Because this is the blood scent for the predator, you know, like how sharks can smell a tiny bit of water, a tiny bit of blood in a huge amount of water. The scent for the pedophiles are anxious children without parental protection. Like, you know, lions, they always go for the zebras, the baby zebras without the parents around, right?

[1:30:06] Yeah.

[1:30:06] Because they're the easiest to catch. it's the easy meat, right?

[1:30:11] Mm-hmm.

[1:30:12] So, you were delivered to pedophiles.

[1:30:19] It sounds disgusting.

[1:30:22] It is disgusting. And this isn't even just theory, because your mother and your grandmother saw the signs. They saw the signs.

[1:30:38] Mm-hmm. Yeah.

[1:30:41] And then they not only delivered you up to this fucking creep of a step-grandfather, but to the 18-year-old, psychotic-having-vision-suicidal-weird-creepo-touch-a-14-year-old-girls-hoo-hoo evil guy.

[1:30:58] Yes.

[1:31:00] They didn't say, get the hell away from our kid, you creepazoid. What's the matter with you?

[1:31:08] They didn't protect me.

[1:31:10] Right. Now, not only did they not protect you, they gave him you. That's why I was asked about sleeping together when you were at your grandmother's place, right?

[1:31:23] Mm-hmm.

[1:31:24] So they offered you up to him because they left you alone with him with no boundaries, is no coaching, no protection. They let you get molested by this turbo creep who was fondling your privates while seeing ghosts.

[1:31:56] Yeah.

[1:31:57] I mean, this is about as appalling a thing as I can conceive of. My heart absolutely goes out to you, human beings. human being. This is beyond appalling.

[1:32:06] Yes.

[1:32:08] So, tell me how you're feeling when I describe it in these terms.

[1:32:16] Everything is on point, but it's so disgusting.

[1:32:20] It is. So, do you know what happens when we are served up by evil people to evil people as children? What does our heart feel deep down? unsafe no that's that's a defense okay, uneasy also that's just another way of saying unsafe although you win thesaurus points for synonyms, okay let me let me let me put it to you this way you have a daughter and you hire a babysitter. You come home and you find out that the babysitter has molested your daughter. And what's your feeling?

[1:33:14] Anger.

[1:33:15] There we go. There we go. Not unease and fear. Anger.

[1:33:20] Unleashing the Murderous Rage

[1:33:20] No, no, no.

[1:33:21] Now, I'm not saying the unease and fear isn't there too, but you already know those feelings, right?

[1:33:26] Yes.

[1:33:26] So, anger.

[1:33:29] Yeah.

[1:33:31] All right. Let's just pose a theoretical here. All right. So you come home and your daughter has been molested by, let's say, a female babysitter, because it's more common that there would be females, and women, of course, can be pedophiles as well. So your daughter's been molested by a woman, the babysitter. And you say, I'm pressing charges, this, that, and the other. And then the babysitter drives home and drives off a cliff and dies a fiery death. What do you think?

[1:34:11] I wouldn't feel sorry. I would feel relieved. Rather, like...

[1:34:16] Good.

[1:34:16] She can't molest any more children.

[1:34:19] Right. You just saved me a lot of time in the legal system, right?

[1:34:26] Yeah, that too.

[1:34:27] Good fucking riddance, right?

[1:34:29] Mm-hmm.

[1:34:31] Do you see what I'm saying?

[1:34:34] Yeah.

[1:34:35] Now, what if you come home, and I'm sorry to be putting you through this, but I'm really trying to laser target on your exhaustion, right? So what if you come home and your babysitter has not molested your daughter, but instead has invited some friends over who've done it?

[1:34:57] So, no, no, that's not okay.

[1:35:02] Well, it's as bad as it was, right?

[1:35:04] Yes, exactly. Exactly.

[1:35:07] Right. So that's your parents.

[1:35:08] There's no difference.

[1:35:09] No, so that's your parents. Your parents delivered you to pedophiles.

[1:35:15] Oh, no.

[1:35:16] They're the babysitter who delivered your daughter to a pedophile. That's your parents. So when you said earlier, and I'm not trying to catch you out on anything, I'm just telling you sort of where I'm coming from. When you said, I said, your parents are terrible. And you said, I know. And I bookmarked that in my head because I'm like, you don't yet.

[1:35:34] Okay. do.

[1:35:35] You see what i mean.

[1:35:35] Yes i didn't know like from that point of view i meant like my partner says that they're terrible and he is really like good judge of character and like my gut has always told me that they are like not the best people but i like suppressed it because i was living with them and i didn't want to like judge anyone harshly you couldn't.

[1:36:03] What do you mean you You didn't want to. You couldn't. You can't. Children, we're programmed to not condemn our parents. We can't.

[1:36:11] Yeah.

[1:36:12] The kids who condemned their pedophile-enabling parents, what happened to them? Well, bad things. Very bad things. So you couldn't judge. To judge your parents as a child or as a teenager would have been a death sentence. At least that's the way our brain processes it, if that makes sense.

[1:36:35] Yes. Oh my God.

[1:36:47] So you get anger.

[1:36:50] Yes.

[1:36:51] But at the same time as you have anger, entirely justly, Entirely justly. At the same time as you have anger, you have to very strenuously oppose that anger. Because that anger can be fatal for you.

[1:37:12] Why?

[1:37:12] Because the way we're programmed is, if we call our parents out, we will be abandoned or unprotected.

[1:37:22] Yes.

[1:37:23] And we'll die. I'm not saying they'll kill us directly although that certainly happened throughout our evolution but we are risking our entire survival by getting angry at our parents.

[1:37:35] Yeah that does feel it like it does feel that way well.

[1:37:41] It is that way yeah it is that way I mean you think of the baby zebra if it pisses off the adult zebras they'll just stand aside when the lion comes yeah right Right? As your parents did, really. In fact, they delivered you to the lions.

[1:37:59] So?

[1:38:01] So you're angry.

[1:38:05] They should be, yes.

[1:38:06] And you should be. Absolutely, you should be.

[1:38:09] Yes.

[1:38:12] Now, sorry, you go ahead. I'm happy to hear what's going on in your mind.

[1:38:15] No, I'm just thinking, like, how could they?

[1:38:18] Exactly. How could they? how could they? But they did. And so the how could they is somewhat irrelevant.

[1:38:29] Yeah. But they did.

[1:38:30] We know that they did, right?

[1:38:31] Yeah.

[1:38:33] So. You have feelings of death, right?

[1:38:45] Sometimes.

[1:38:46] Yes, I understand. I understand. And I think I know why. I don't know. Obviously, it's just a theory, but I think I know why you have feelings of death. Which is why I asked. It's why I asked, how would you feel if the woman who molested your daughter died in a fiery crash on the way home? And I think your consensus was something like, good.

[1:39:16] Yeah. Relieved.

[1:39:17] Yeah. So that's called murderous rage, right?

[1:39:22] Yes. That was what I feel was pivic.

[1:39:25] Yeah. So murderous rage. And listen, murderous rage is very healthy. It doesn't mean we go out and harm anyone, but it's important to know because murderous rage is there to protect us.

[1:39:35] Yes.

[1:39:36] Right? So obviously, you know, you probably grew up with people who acted out their anger, like your parents acted out their anger or their impulses, right? Yeah. If they didn't want to be close, they had no obligations. If they were angry, they yelled at you. If they were angry, they hit you. if you didn't want to be comforted. They say, fine, fine. So their emotions translated into actions. Is that fair to say?

[1:40:02] Yeah. They had no filter with their anger. Right.

[1:40:07] So if you grow up with people who take their anger and act it out in a harmful way, you then become frightened of murderous rage because you think you might kill someone.

[1:40:21] Yeah.

[1:40:22] Do you see what I mean?

[1:40:22] You don't want to be toxic to friends or people around you.

[1:40:27] But that leaves you unprotected. Now, the murderous rage is there to get evil people away from us. Now, that's not by killing them, obviously, or harming them physically, but the murderous rage is like, I've got to get away from these people.

[1:40:44] Yeah, I think of it as like a barking dog.

[1:40:50] Yes, yes, a barking dog keeps the criminals away, right?

[1:40:54] Yeah. Okay. Oh, God.

[1:40:58] So you have anger towards your parents and your grandmother and your step-grandfather and your, quote, boyfriend, who was just your pedophilic exploiter. And, sorry, I lost a little bit track of the cousin. You'd mentioned a cousin and I wanted to, is he in the list or?

[1:41:20] No, she's almost like, she's also suffered at the hands of. Oh, she's suffered.

[1:41:26] Okay. Right. Okay. Yeah. So, you have murderous rage that you can't allow yourself to feel, right?

[1:41:37] Yeah.

[1:41:38] And where does that murderous rage get turned if it can't be directed at the proper object?

[1:41:47] Inside.

[1:41:48] Yeah, against yourself. So, for instance, you know, if you witness somebody from the mafia organized crime, you witness them committing a crime, and you're going to testify against them in court, what do they want to do to you?

[1:42:08] Prevent me from testifying.

[1:42:10] They want to kill you.

[1:42:11] Yeah.

[1:42:12] Dead men tell no tales, right?

[1:42:14] Yeah.

[1:42:15] Two men can keep a secret only if one of them is dead, right? So you have a condemnation of your parents, And in my view This is all theory But I think it fits with the facts Doesn't mean it's true, right? So you have murderous rates towards your parents And they would rather You die Than tell the truth, In the same way that criminals would rather kill witnesses than go to jail. Does that make sense?

[1:42:56] Yeah, but the evolution programming that they would rather have to be died is so weird because it does feel that way. Like they would abandon me, maybe.

[1:43:08] Oh, they would. Yeah, no. And here's the thing. Let's say that they only had a 5% chance of abandoning you. You can't take that chance. I don't play Russian roulette, even if it's a one in six chance, right?

[1:43:21] Yeah, I might have gaslighted myself a lot because they have been better in the recent years, but...

[1:43:28] I'm sorry, gaslighted yourself a lot? Are you self-criticizing? You're not self-criticizing again, are you? No, you wouldn't do that to me, would you?

[1:43:36] I just want to... No, you didn't gaslight yourself.

[1:43:40] Hang on, hang on. What do you mean you gaslit yourself? You had a survival mechanism called squelch your anger.

[1:43:46] I think that I knew that they were good parents and they aren't good people, but in the recent years, I didn't think of it that much because they were nicer to me.

[1:44:00] Well, also, didn't you need them for survival? You couldn't live on your own.

[1:44:04] Yes.

[1:44:05] Am I wrong?

[1:44:05] That's true. Yeah, that's true.

[1:44:07] So you're not gaslighting yourself, you're living.

[1:44:11] Survival instinct.

[1:44:12] Yeah.

[1:44:13] Yeah.

[1:44:14] And also, if your parents are intelligent and perceptive, and I'm sure that they are, then gaslighting yourself is the best way to survive. Because if you have doubt or they catch a look of skepticism or rage or anything gets through the defenses, you're in trouble.

[1:44:29] Yes, that is true. Yeah. I did always get in trouble if I expressed my two lively emotions, I guess. Right.

[1:44:44] Of course. Of course. So imagine if you were, I'm not suggesting you do this, but just as a thought experiment, right? So imagine you said to your parents, you know what, we need to really clear the family air. I'm going to write a newsletter. I'm going to send it out to the family about everything that happened to me as a child, you know, the molestation, my step-grandmother, the fact that you knew mom and didn't do anything. We've really got to clear the air. I'm, you know, we're going to send it all out. I'm going to publish it publicly, everyone's names, uh, just because, you know, we, we, we shouldn't have these secrets and so on. Right. And how would your parents react to that kind of exposure of what they did?

[1:45:20] Not good. No, no, no, no, no. They would be like, they would try to talk me out of it first. but then if I wouldn't agree they would be mad like angry they'd.

[1:45:34] Be enraged they'd panic, they'd freak out because the truth would be coming out, right?

[1:45:40] Call me a lawyer.

[1:45:42] They would re-traumatize you they would re-abuse you they would sacrifice everything that you are just to maintain their shitty reputations, right?

[1:45:53] Yeah, public image I guess Right.

[1:45:57] So that's the murderousness that they have, right? We'll do anything to shut you up.

[1:46:01] Yes. Oh my God.

[1:46:07] Like there's the physical molestation and then there's the mind rape that comes afterwards, which is shut up or we'll kill you. To one degree or another.

[1:46:17] Yeah. well now i know how they are emotionally abusive i guess because i'm sorry i think could.

[1:46:29] You repeat that.

[1:46:30] Now i like know how they are emotionally abusive because at the beginning of the call i said that i know that they are but i can't bring like any examples but now i like your.

[1:46:44] Exhaustion The question is, I would imagine, because you're, I mean, again, outside of the physical stuff, which I can't speak to if there's a conflict within you. Do you remember how you described your childhood to me at the beginning of our conversation?

[1:46:56] Not good.

[1:46:58] No, you said, my childhood wasn't too bad. There are lots of people who've had worse childhoods and, you know, it was okay.

[1:47:04] Yeah, I recall.

[1:47:06] Now, I've been doing this long enough that when someone says that, what's coming next?

[1:47:13] Worse childhood.

[1:47:13] The worst childhood that you would not, you know, I don't know if I have enemies enough or hate anyone enough to want a childhood like that on them.

[1:47:22] Yeah.

[1:47:23] Had an absolutely appalling, wretched, exploited, alienated, distant, unloved, unsupported, unprotected childhood. And I'm so sorry for that. And I know that in my life when I've had phases of tiredness, and please, I'm not trying to compare my life to yours, because you have a really serious thing going on here, but it has tended to be where I have the greatest conflicts. If there's anything in the mind that might be draining energy. It's like, you know, you have a bicep, you have a tricep, right? the muscle on the front of your arm and the muscle on the back of your arm, if you try to engage both of them, your arm does nothing. You're paralyzed. So if you have both anger, which is there to protect you, but protecting yourself through anger is going to get you killed, in a sense, or threatened with death, or feel like you're going to get killed. So if you have a great desire for self-protection, but self-protection is going to get you killed, then you're paralyzed, because you have a contradiction that which is here to protect me is going to get me killed.

[1:48:51] See it's like that I never thought that like me minimizing my me minimizing my things, things would like affect me so much well.

[1:49:08] Again i don't know but i think it's a it's an important place to start i don't know whether this is i mean could could be a thyroid thing for all i know but i'm just saying that uh you know i can't do anything what i can do what i can do is is try and unravel contradictions in the experience that could be setting you at war with yourself in other words you want to be protected your parents don't want you to tell the truth even into yourself but the only way to be protected is to tell the truth to yourself.

[1:49:39] Yeah i think i need to allow myself to be more angry i think if i need to be.

[1:49:48] No no not if you need to be it's not a need thing if you are and you should be and i'm certain that you are because you're a human being who was cruelly violated fundamentally by your a parent.

[1:50:01] Yeah.

[1:50:01] Because like there's the identified aggressor, right? Like the step-grandfather and there's the boyfriend and so on. So those are the identified victimizers, right?

[1:50:12] Yeah.

[1:50:15] But the real victimizers are the parents. Right? If I leave my daughter alone in the woods and she gets bitten by a wolf.

[1:50:26] Is it the wolf?

[1:50:30] Do we blame the wolf? Well, yeah. I mean, look, your step-grandfather, your boyfriend and all of that, they absolutely have moral responsibility. But they're helpless without your parents. They can't do anything.

[1:50:43] Yeah. It should have been there. They should have intervened somehow.

[1:50:49] Okay, so somehow. Okay, so let's go back in time and put you in your parents' position, right? You've got this creep when you're eight calling you, I can't even say it, like S-E-X-Y. You've got this creep when you're eight and he's grabbing at you and he's using these vile terms with you and so on. And you see this, right? Your daughter, right? This is your daughter, and there's some relative or someone who's doing all of this stuff. What do you do?

[1:51:20] Never let them be near them again. Like, no, this is not okay.

[1:51:28] Okay, so that's the first step. What else?

[1:51:36] I'm having such a difficulty to extract my experience from it.

[1:51:41] Yeah, I know it's tough because you're now trying to put yourself in the role of protector. So what do you do with this kind of creep?

[1:51:54] Seeking Justice and Closure

[1:51:54] I would actually want to, like, attack him.

[1:51:58] I understand. I understand.

[1:52:00] Like, how could you, like, to a child?

[1:52:03] Right.

[1:52:04] It's not normal. no well i wouldn't want him to be able to do that to anyone else that's correct, so i don't know if i will press charges because i don't have evidence that can.

[1:52:26] Be tough and of course the physical attacks right he can then just claim assault and make your life difficult, right?

[1:52:31] Yeah. But I would, like, tell everyone, definitely, like, all the family members that have kids and everyone.

[1:52:43] And you'd go to his neighbors and you'd say, you know, this is what's going on, this guy's really dangerous, keep your kids away from him, right? You would just...

[1:52:49] Yeah, yeah, if they had kids, then definitely I would warn them.

[1:52:53] Well, everybody has kids over, right? So, you know, you'd want to make sure. So, I don't know, I'd tell you what I would do. And there's no right answer to this, so everything you're saying is perfectly valid. First of all, I would absolutely cut off things with the grandmother.

[1:53:09] Okay.

[1:53:10] Because she's part of it. Like, if she's got the kind of judgment to marry this vile person, then I don't want to have anything to do with her. But before I did any of that, I would say, oh, I just need to use his computer for something, right?

[1:53:32] Okay.

[1:53:32] And then I would look through everything on his computer and see if I could find anything.

[1:53:37] Evidence.

[1:53:37] Evidence of anything, right?

[1:53:39] Yeah. Well, he didn't have a computer.

[1:53:43] Maybe a phone or whatever, right?

[1:53:46] Yeah. Yeah, he did have porn magazines that he showed me.

[1:53:49] Or whatever. I'm sorry, go ahead.

[1:53:50] Yeah. No, he did have like a pile, big pile of porn magazines that he showed me and my cousin and asked us if they were pretty and was a little bit insulted if we said no.

[1:54:05] Well, there's your charges right there.

[1:54:07] Yes.

[1:54:08] Yeah, that's your charges right there, which is supplying pornography to minors. Boom. And I would publicize that as wide as possible, and I would just take that wriggling vermin out of his nest and hold him up to the sky. And have nothing to do with the grandmother, and warn everyone, and press charges, and all of that, right? But of course, you know, if your parents had been those people, he wouldn't have tried anything.

[1:54:41] No. I don't think so.

[1:54:43] Right, so you think a molester or somebody who exposes children to this kind of stuff, if he goes to jail, I mean, he could get killed, right? I mean, pedophiles don't do very well in jail.

[1:54:57] Yeah, yeah, yeah, I have heard that.

[1:54:59] Or, you know, so, yeah, that's everything that you deserved to be protected with, and none of that happened. In fact, you were sent back. And you, at the age of 14, was given a private audience with a grabby adult who called himself your boyfriend. That's not even close to the truth, right? He was an exploiter.

[1:55:28] Yes.

[1:55:34] I mean, in many places in the world, he'd go to jail.

[1:55:43] Yeah, actually, he expressed his concern to me multiple times that he's afraid of getting in trouble because I'm so young and everything. Right. So he knew full well what he was up to.

[1:56:05] And who had to protect you from him? You did. Your mother and your grandmother were like, yep, here, go hang out. Be alone.

[1:56:16] Yeah. At least they're doing it in the house, not anywhere else.

[1:56:21] Don't try with me, sister. Don't even try that shit with me. Seriously. Don't try that with me. Don't minimize this.

[1:56:30] I try to like imitate their thoughts.

[1:56:34] Like my grandma's mother's thoughts I don't like having my face pressed in shit and I don't like having this mindset in my head I accept it I'm with you I understand why you do but yeah it's too vile for me yeah at least you get molested in the house, no how about not at all is that on the table anything thing please yeah let's see can i just have a fucking childhood please yeah.

[1:57:05] Healthy friends no.

[1:57:07] Creeps no molestation no right yeah, so i think i think you're carrying a heavy burden i I think my.

[1:57:23] Mind is still trying to like tell me, well, maybe they didn't know or something. But everyone's literally telling me that, no, like if they didn't know, then it was because they were purposely ignoring it.

[1:57:39] Well, so you have and this is why when I said when you said, well, my boyfriend didn't really know how bad my neurasthenia was. us, I'm like, but it's your job to tell him and it's your parents' job to know. It's your parents' job to know. So, for instance, did your grandmother know that your grandfather had a stack of sleazy porn mags with children around?

[1:58:05] I have no idea, actually. I'm sure she did. But sure. Yeah.

[1:58:09] And here's the thing. You need to know the quality of the people that children are around because everybody knows that there are these kinds of people out there in the world and you just need to be careful, right?

[1:58:18] Yeah.

[1:58:19] So, yeah, they're 100% responsible for failing to protect you. There's no excuse. No excuse. Don't give them any single shred of an excuse. Well, we didn't know. Well, it wasn't subtle. Well, we thought it was just a joke. Nope, doesn't matter.

[1:58:31] Doesn't matter.

[1:58:32] Well, I left my daughter alone in the woods, but I didn't think there were any wolves in the woods. It doesn't matter. If you are not protected as a child, it's your parents' responsibility.

[1:58:42] Yes.

[1:58:45] Because they were all up in your face when they thought you were being selfish or lazy, right? So they were all up in your face about that stuff, right?

[1:58:53] Yeah.

[1:58:55] So, no, they weren't completely indifferent to your existence, right? They were constantly yelling at you and at each other. So, they weren't indifferent to your existence, right? So, no, they're 100% responsible, 150% responsible. If parents aren't responsible for protecting their children, who is?

[1:59:13] In the child's mind, the child itself.

[1:59:15] Well, sure, but no, but that's what you have to do, and you can't blame your parents, because at least you have a roof over your head and some food in your belly, right? Whereas if your parents, if you hold your parents accountable for failing to protect you from pedophiles, then maybe they'll just kick you out and you'll be in an even worse situation. So that's just a survival mechanism. And wanting to make excuses for them is also a survival mechanism. And I understand that. And I sympathize with that. But it's not true. It's not a fact. It's just excuses we make. So that they don't kick us out into the snow.

[1:59:56] Yes.

[1:59:57] But it's like you don't need that anymore.

[1:59:59] Right?

[2:00:00] I'm sorry, go ahead.

[2:00:01] I just need to hammer it in.

[2:00:05] Absolutely, absolutely. And whether this helps with the endorhizania, I have no idea. I basically just have to look for the contradictions and sympathize with them.

[2:00:15] And I do.

[2:00:15] I really do.

[2:00:16] Yeah. I think, like, yeah, I know that emotional side is a part of my neurasthenia, so everything...

[2:00:28] But I just don't, sorry, Indra, I just don't want you to have this, you know, don't want to live and, like, all of that kind of stuff. Well, first of all, of course, you know, and I say this to anybody who's got any kind of suicidal thoughts, that if you have any thoughts of self-destruction, that you will absolutely go to ER, you will call emergency, you call a suicide hotline. Yeah, yeah. get the help. Do you make that promise to me with great seriousness?

[2:00:51] Yeah.

[2:00:51] Thank you. But I think that the death impulse is your parents just don't want the secret to come out. They just want to slaughter the witness and you're waking up to your history.

[2:01:02] Yeah, at least like I said some time ago I was very lonely but now I have my partner and friends and everything so I can make that promise that I don't know know if i will go to the er but i will definitely at least a phone call or your partner or something yeah like everything tells me that no you shouldn't disturb them but i will like against my wishes will call someone or tell someone so that they can like talk me out of it because i know objectively objectively that i don't want to die actually i know no you.

[2:01:42] Shouldn't no and And listen, you are a wonderful person. You are fiercely intelligent. And I can't tell you how much I respect what you've done with your life, given where you started. And you have a huge amount to offer the world. And I want to preserve all of that and your pride in yourself and all of that. So I just really want to reinforce that. I mean, for what it's worth, my admiration for you is immense. and you have a huge amount to offer and you have a lot of legitimate anger and I completely understand the gaslighting.

[2:02:20] Yeah. I will try to deal with it for now on.

[2:02:27] Will you keep me posted about how it's going?

[2:02:31] I will try.

[2:02:33] You can just email me at the same place. Oh, okay. I just, yeah, I just, I mean, I wish I could give you a big hug and all that kind of stuff, but you know, it's virtual. So all I can do is give you a big, big mental hug and hugely appreciate the conversation. And I really, really hope that you'll let me know how things go. Yeah, yeah. There you go. There's our little hearts. Yeah, yeah. I'll send it back. All right. So listen, can we, can we close off here? Will you, will you think about this and let me know how it goes?

[2:03:01] Yeah, I will definitely, uh, express my anger.

[2:03:06] Okay all right well well keep it posted and thanks again for the call.

[2:03:10] Yeah thank you like thank you so so much.

[2:03:13] You are absolutely welcome take care yeah.

[2:03:16] Take care bye.

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