PART ONE: https://freedomain.com/my-boyfriend-almost-killed-me-freedomain-call-in-transcript/
0:00 - Introduction to the Call-In
44:56 - Unpacking Childhood Trauma
56:10 - The Cycle of Cruelty
1:28:20 - The Cartel Connection
1:36:12 - The Cost of Parental Support
1:43:03 - Future Obligations and Relationships
1:53:17 - Breaking the Cycle of Neglect
This episode marks the second part of a call-in discussion exploring complex personal and familial dynamics, featuring a young man who shares his journey of healing and self-discovery. In our first episode, we spoke with his girlfriend about navigating their relationship amidst the backdrop of past traumas, including family neglect and the specter of substance abuse. Now, we dive into the man's perspective, unpacking the layers of his upbringing, the issues he’s faced, and the aspirations he holds for the future.
The caller begins by recounting a childhood characterized by neglect, particularly through the actions of his mother. He reflects on how her prioritization of work over emotional support fostered a sense of abandonment, leading to struggles with substance abuse during his late teens. He expresses that these experiences have left him wrestling with feelings of loss and the desire to heal and move forward. With the support of his girlfriend, and by committing to a path of truth, he seeks to end the cycle of familial pain that has plagued both their families.
The discussion delves deeply into the caller’s relationship with his mother, touching on her tumultuous past with a drug-dealer father who was murdered when the caller was very young. This trauma led to a series of decisions by his mother that left him feeling unloved and unimportant, further compounded by the introduction of a stepfather who seemed more like a friendly figure than a parental authority. The dynamics of his household are explored with sensitivity, highlighting the emotional volatility that arose when disagreements occurred, particularly between him and his mother.
As they navigate the conversation, we uncover the caller's complex feelings towards his parents, particularly his mother. He acknowledges her efforts to provide financially but questions whether that compensates for the emotional void created by their relationship’s neglect. The depth of his reflection reveals a desire for connection and understanding that has been largely unmet. Stefan, the host, probes these complexities with pointed questions, encouraging the caller to share his thoughts on his family dynamics, and whether his parents have succeeded or failed in their roles.
The topic of masculinity arises as the caller grapples with feelings of inadequacy, especially in light of his parents’ financial support. He fears that being tethered to his parents through their generosity undermines his independence and authority in his romantic relationship. As they discuss the nature of their finances, it's revealed how he believes that this cycle of dependency correlates with the neglect he experienced as a child, ultimately leading to a lack of respect and authority in both family and romantic contexts.
Towards the end of the episode, the caller expresses concern for his younger sister who might be on a similar path of struggle. Though he feels a sense of responsibility to guide her, he wrestles with feelings of boundary and obligation, particularly in a household where he perceives emotional neglect to be a common theme. The tension between wanting to help and acknowledging the limits of familial responsibility is palpable, emphasizing a common struggle among siblings of neglectful households.
Overall, we see a young man at a crossroads. He aspires to break free from the patterns of his past, focusing on education and building a life independent of his parents' influence. This episode poignantly illustrates the delicate balance between seeking support and asserting one’s identity, while continuously wrestling with the emotional traumas of family legacy. The conversation underscores the importance of self-understanding and the courage it takes to redefine one’s life narrative amidst deeply rooted familial issues.
[0:00] All right. This is the second part of a two-part call-in. The previous part is the one number up from this in the podcast series, wherein I talked to a young woman. And in this podcast, again, the second, I'm now talking to her boyfriend, though not the boyfriend who was aggressive with her as referenced in the last podcast, but it is the boyfriend. friend so if you listen to this without listening to the previous one it probably won't make quite as much sense i just wanted to mention that go back go back one to listen to the show that precedes this if you haven't already all right here we go.
[0:35] I come from a family that was neglectful towards me during my upbringing leading me to abuse a variety of drugs any and almost all during my late 20 teenage years of this led to me getting a late start in life i'm currently 26 and getting my bachelor's while living in my parents home i'm still mourning for all that was lost due to my parents neglect but i believe i am on the right track i have a loving girlfriend who listens to the show and together we're in a pursuit of truth we're working hard to stop the cycle of abuse that has gone on for several generations in our families and i'd like to explore all possible avenues with stefan to make sure i am doing everything i can do to mourn heal and grow row so that I can salvage what's left of my life. I did not plan on having kids until recently and never saw how important it is, thus causing me to live a very nihilist type of life during my late teens, early twenties. I at times feel like a man-child. I want to find all the ways in which I am immature. Therapy has only ever been there to say, wow, great job, when I take notes of my feelings or stick to sobriety or other disciplines. I've never really had a talk as empathetic as those that hear on the show regarding the horrible things parents do and i feel it will be productive to have one with Stef thanks a lot for all that you guys do and looking forward to hearing back.
[1:56] All right so um i suppose what happened um with your childhood and and the neglect and so on i'm i'm eager to hear because it's always interesting to get two sides of a perspective and um i'm all ears.
[2:12] Great. So my parents, maybe I should start from the beginning. My mom decided to date somebody who was basically a drug dealer. They never told me much detail, but if you're involved in that, you're pretty much a drug dealer. And he was murdered when I was three, causing her to have to move very far from her hometown up north and find work. work there she met my sorry did she have moved.
[2:42] Because she also was in danger.
[2:46] They don't tell me enough details i would assume yes okay that she would be in danger just because of the nature of things like uh many people from that side of the family of my blood dad have died because of that but and i i don't know enough details to say like oh well they Sorry.
[3:05] By that, do you mean the drug dealing as a whole or that death in particular?
[3:10] That death, because that side of the family has multiple people that are involved in that.
[3:15] Okay.
[3:15] And so by relation, I guess my mom could also be in danger, but I wouldn't know exactly.
[3:23] Okay.
[3:24] And so she moved up north and my stepdad and they got together. And what's so I think that the core of the neglect is that they both have worked full time and maybe even more since they met until even now they have worked a ton. And I remember I've had a couple of like big conversations with my mom where I tell her like you weren't there for me. Like you say that you work so hard to provide and always make sure I have everything. But you're always at work. I wasn't, you didn't raise me like public school raised me and stuff like that.
[4:02] Okay. Sorry, go ahead.
[4:04] That's it. That's it.
[4:07] Okay. So, were you put into daycare when you were very little, when your father was still around?
[4:16] Yes.
[4:18] Okay. And do you have any thoughts or insights as to why your mother would marry someone like your father?
[4:29] Um, he, I have a, maybe a small theory, like he had already had a failed marriage and I guess she saw herself as someone who also had a failed marriage or relationship. And so they kind of fit towards each other as well as he had a lot of money and maybe that would.
[4:50] Okay, I'm going to go a little bit later. You know, there are a lot of people who have failed marriages, not so many people who are heavily involved in drug trafficking, right? So I don't know that the failed marriage thing is probably the common denominator?
[5:08] Right, yes.
[5:09] And do you know much about your mother's first marriage?
[5:12] I don't know much about it now.
[5:14] Okay. No kids, though, out of that marriage that you know of, right?
[5:19] Only me and what's a weird part of it is that there's i have a stepbrother from that from my original dad who he had with another woman and we're almost exactly the same age oh okay so sorry you said.
[5:35] The failed marriage i thought that your mother had a marriage before she married your father who was killed.
[5:41] Oh i i don't think they even got married so i would just call it a failed marriage but it would be more a failed relationship oh.
[5:48] So the failed marriage sorry i was trying to understand why your mother would have been attracted to the drug trafficker and you said because they both had a history of failed marriages.
[5:58] I i.
[5:59] Misunderstood that so if.
[6:00] You can yeah that was my misunderstanding actually i thought you were asking me uh why he like my stepdad after no you're just say dad.
[6:08] And obviously stepdad so sorry go.
[6:10] Ahead gotcha um i am pretty certain that she had a neglectful childhood. My grandfather died from liver cancer after drinking the last 10 years of his life. He drank as much as he could and he was pretty violent. I'm sure that she didn't have a great upbringing. So they in turn failed to protect her or show her how to find a good partner and she ended up with a drug dealer.
[6:41] Okay that's i mean that's a bit deterministic but that's all right uh so but what was it about your father that you know of that she found attractive oh.
[6:51] I have no idea.
[6:57] Was he i guess he was wealthy from the criminal activities was he very good looking a lot of charisma you know very funny charisma.
[7:05] I've heard charisma yes Yes, I've heard very little, but that's one thing I've heard.
[7:13] Okay, got it. And do you know anything about the circumstances of his murder?
[7:21] Like he, what would, like, hmm, let me think. I don't know very much. I just know that they shot him. It was weird because actually a few months ago I visited my hometown and ended up at a gathering of kind of like the extended family side and this random guy who is like some drunk guy who's trying to act like your uncle he showed up and he was really drunk and really high on something and he was talking his mouth way too much and he he set me aside and he started telling me like oh we try to tell your dad you know like not to go talk to those people but oh everybody's got to learn their own lesson you know whatever and like that was the first time somebody ever talked to me that much about my dad it was really really disturbing, but that's all I really know I don't know why he was killed at times I thought maybe it was because he had two women and people fight over women.
[8:24] Not usually to the death but alright.
[8:27] I'm sorry I cut off I was just saying not usually.
[8:32] To the death.
[8:34] Right I mean there are more fish in the sea so to speak right okay Yes.
[8:40] All right. So you were in daycare and your mother was working. And so she may not have been primarily into the guy, into your dad, for his money because she still worked, right?
[8:55] Yes.
[8:56] Okay. And do you know roughly what she did back then? I mean, hopefully she wasn't involved in your father's business.
[9:04] She told me back then she used to sell tires at a tire shop kind of just small jobs nothing big.
[9:11] Really yes okay i mean i'm a bit surprised i assume that if your father is in the drug trade and he's worth killing he must have had some clout right right.
[9:25] Yes that is kind of shocking i mean if you're gonna go be a drug dealer at least leave a lot of money or something but he left nothing at all.
[9:32] Right but it also could have been stolen if it was cash right by the killers oh.
[9:37] Yeah that's strange okay.
[9:39] All right so how long after your father's murder did your mother marry or get together with your stepdad about.
[9:50] Two to three years.
[9:52] And you were in daycare during this time and then went on to kindergarten, is that right?
[9:57] That's correct.
[9:58] Okay. And what are your early memories like? What are your early thoughts or experiences regarding your childhood like?
[10:11] Kind of maybe extreme, going from extreme lovey-dovey-ness, cuddliness with my mom to how could you fail me? When there was disagreement, it was very harsh. It was very dramatic. She wouldn't hit me, but when she disagreed with something I was doing, I have a memory of something that when I was maybe around five or something, and she had not moved in with my stepdad yet. We were going to school and I think I disagreed on going to school. Like I didn't think we were going to school and she would just kind of get really like flustered and she acted like she was going to leave me at the house by myself. I remember like looking through the window and seeing her in the car and the car was on. I freaked out and gave in. And I think that I kind of would represent how it was like. Like she would always be like, oh, where's my lovely little son? and all this stuff and then like later when we disagree it was like do what they say that's kind of how it went that's again and again well she escalated quite.
[11:18] A bit right I mean like faking that she's going to drive away and how old were you at that point.
[11:23] I must have been five or six it's one of my earliest memories yeah.
[11:26] So faking that she's going to drive away and leave you in the house alone and of course as a little kid you don't even know if she's coming back right so that's obviously pretty extreme abandonment slash death threat right yeah i'm sorry about that, okay but so she was emotionally violent i suppose but not physically violent is that right, correct and what about your stepdad.
[11:52] My stepdad he came in kind of like an uncle or good friend of my mom to me like oh this is your new you know guy who's gonna be around he's gonna be your buddy he's always nice and he went from that to being my friend to like slowly trying to be my dad but never quite fulfilled that role like it just i mean i've always called him by his name even till this day so it was it was like a cool uncle sort of deal that just came into the picture and buys me stuff um.
[12:33] What about discipline from him.
[12:37] Oh yeah that took a while it was because he was just a cool uncle and just a friend so he he was trying not to discipline me for a long time but when it did happen it was later in my teens, when i started to kind of have issues with what to do with my life like i remember sorry we.
[12:57] Just skipped ahead to the age of 19 did i get that right.
[13:00] Oh um yeah about about so he He didn't really discipline me at all when I was young, except for. This one time that we were having a conversation, my mom, him and I, and I called out my mom on something I thought wasn't true. Like I said, that's not true. And my mom used to say, like, you call me a liar? She would respond like very suddenly and violently. And before she even said that, I just said, hey, that's not true. Like, you're not going to fulfill that promise or something. And he slapped me instantly. And that was like the first time that he ever stepped in to discipline me at all.
[13:40] I mean that's not really discipline that's just lashing out right.
[13:43] Yeah totally and like it was shocking because he would never ever sit down to tell me like oh you should do this or you got to do this he would just kind of be like very absent like he's just the uncle who's in the house and then all of a sudden step in to to say something harsh or of the sort or do something like that I don't have a lot of memories of him actually ever sitting down to tell me what to do.
[14:12] And they both worked a lot, right?
[14:15] Yes.
[14:16] Was your mother still selling tires?
[14:20] She moved on to a bigger career. And when she moved up north, before she met my stepdad, she started working for his company. They do international trade.
[14:33] Okay, got it. okay so what sort of hours are we talking that you remember how many how long would they be gone.
[14:43] Early in the morning get me to school just barely in time i would say eight in the morning and then i wouldn't see them till after school sometimes like six five six, so who took care.
[14:59] Of you uh after school before your parents would get home.
[15:03] I would either stay at school for a good while i was always in sports or or they would pick me up like a little bit late i usually was the last kid there so maybe closer to five or four school would end at four and give me about 4 30 and go from there okay.
[15:22] So you were involved in sports and therefore you would stay in school after.
[15:27] You weren't.
[15:28] Just sort of like stuck home like latchkey kid on your own right.
[15:30] Rad yes and i just remembered for a lot of it my grandma would visit from our hometown and she would take care of me.
[15:39] Ah and what was she like.
[15:43] She was nice i can't say she necessarily was mean or she never hit me or anything but she would always be like oh i'm gonna tell mom or little things like that she was nice though she would We'd always cook and, I don't know, very easy going, I would say.
[16:04] Right. And she was not violent or aggressive, right?
[16:08] No.
[16:09] Okay. All right. And how was school for you or what you remember, if anything, of daycare and early school experiences?
[16:18] Daycare was just fine. Elementary started to get a little weird. I remember there was a kid who was very violent. He was a bully, basically. And there was always some sort of conflict between the more normal people and him. He was always out to bother someone. And then the next day, he would be accepted by the crowd and he would be nice to everyone. But before you know it, he's plotting on hurting someone, again, taking someone's backpack or tripping them as they run or something like that. And that was most of the conflict. I was in the same elementary from first to sixth, and there was only 30 kids in my class. I remember it was just really hard to get out of elementary into middle school because I was so accustomed to the same 30 people for so long.
[17:12] Right, right.
[17:15] Hello.
[17:15] Yes, I'm so sorry about that. My sincere apologies. I'm all yours. And let us continue with this tale. You were talking about how hard your parents worked, how little they were home, and some odd goings on at school. And let us continue the tale into your early teens.
[17:38] Okay. Let's see. so early since elementary it was always, I did think about something so it was that they were home always at 4 or 5 unless grandma was here if grandma was here they'd get here at 6 or maybe even later sometimes, so it was always like very distant I didn't realize it early on that it was so distant my relationship with them until I started to get older and see that, it wasn't necessarily normal for parents to be so tired and always thinking about work 24-7. And that went on into high school. And I never realized I didn't really have a good relationship as far as intimacy goes. It was just like, they're the parents, they're in power, I'm just the child. What else can I share?
[18:36] When you started to get interested in girls, what happened there?
[18:40] Oh, yes. So I had said earlier in elementary, I was around the same 30 people since almost since kindergarten all the way to sixth grade. And it was during sixth grade that we moved over to the US. And I went straight into a public school knowing very little English. And I remember being absolutely terrified of strangers, even if they were my age, and especially girls. And so it was around sixth, seventh grade, I started to like girls. And I was super, super scared of them. But I did have like some dates here and there, nothing too big, like going into high school. I do remember being super anxious every single time. I almost could never really connect with them because I was so hung up on my nerves and maybe being insecure and also kind of worshipping them in a way like, oh my God, she's so beautiful and she's agreed to hang out with me. And that kind of would repeat again and again.
[19:54] Then I had like you were obviously some nerves is inevitable when it comes to being a young man and being interested in girls. Why do you think it was so strong for you?
[20:07] I think because I wasn't very socialized because I was around the same exact people since I was in kinder all the way to sixth grade. I never talked to almost anyone other than those same people. and it was even early on that it was kind of decided who you get along with and who you don't. So I was never challenged to talk to people with different views or just talk to different people. It was like I had my couple of buddies and that's the only people I talked to growing up.
[20:37] But why were you so nervous around girls, do you think? Again, with the knowledge that it's always going to be a bit nerve-wracking, right? If you're not nervous around girls as a young boy boy or as a boy uh you're just not aiming high enough right because you know we all we all have to aim as high as we can right yeah so why do you think you were so nervous.
[20:59] That may be a lot of pressure on myself that i put that i was supposed to maybe put on a show or.
[21:05] No but that's that's circular right you know i mean feeling nervous is is feeling a lot of pressure and say well why do you feel nervous because i was that's just saying feeling nervous a different way right.
[21:15] Right i'm not too sure why i was overly nervous.
[21:19] And the fact that you grew up with a bunch of people who were the same uh that doesn't wouldn't indicate because then you could have a really good basis and confidence with your social skills that could be a good base it's like saying everyone from a small town has to be nervous uh when they leave like that's not always the case right some people from small town end up very confident because they grow up with a lot of predictability and reliability in their relationships if that makes sense it does so what was so scary and i'm not disagreeing with you of course right i'm just yes what what what what it might be.
[21:57] I'm not too sure.
[22:02] Well, did you want what your parents had?
[22:10] I couldn't tell. I couldn't tell.
[22:16] Well, okay, let me ask you another way. Did your parents seem happy to you?
[22:22] So-so. It wasn't like, okay, so that makes it a lot better. It wasn't like, oh, wow, I can't wait to grow up and have what they have. It never was that way. It was just like, oh, cool. You know, they're together. That's cool and all. But it's not something that I am really excited to one day have.
[22:39] Okay. I'm going to ask this again because that's an excellent non-answer. Did your parents seem happy to you?
[22:49] Okay.
[22:50] Now, I'm not disagreeing with you, of course, because you know them infinitely better than I do. What was it about them that had you think they're not too happy?
[23:02] There was a lot of stress. It was like they had a very scarcity mindset all the time. Like, this is never enough. And I'm so stressed and I got to work so much. Nothing's ever enough. And you got to eat all your food because we can barely afford this. Even if it wasn't true, it was just like, you got to be so grateful for every single little thing you have. Didn't seem like they were very easygoing.
[23:29] Well, were they grateful?
[23:33] I'm not sure maybe not i.
[23:37] Mean hey i'm a big one for you i'm grateful every day i'm in good health right yeah so i uh i have no problem with the attitude of gratitude i think it's great, but you say the scarcity mindset mindset. Which meant what?
[23:58] They were not grateful, perhaps?
[24:00] No, no. I mean, so scarcity means what? Everything good could just be taken away like that, like tomorrow? Is it an anxiety mindset? What do you mean by scarcity mindset? I'm not disagreeing with you again. I just want to make sure I understand what you mean.
[24:13] It's kind of like really, yeah, scared to lose it all, or it's It's such a miracle that we're okay right now, but who knows tomorrow. They're very stressed. They weren't very patient people. They didn't have a lot of, it seemed like, free time or free energy to spare.
[24:33] Well, you said they came home and they seemed tired, right?
[24:36] Yes, and they just wanted to watch TV and relax, and there was no time for play or talk or much. It was just like, oh, quit making noise over there. I'm trying to watch the show and relax.
[24:49] So a scarcity mindset very often has to do with materialism. right so if you're very happily married uh it's true you you could lose money i mean you know you have your savings or whatever right but you know the stock market can go all kinds of crazy and you can lose your job and whatever it is you can get sick and right so so you can lose stuff, but the scarcity mindset is that which we can lose is the most important thing now that's not not a good recipe for happiness right yes so would you say that your parents uh were materialistic did they uh like the stuff the finer stuff the the good things in life that are material.
[25:39] It's very clear to me now as i've gotten older when my mom purchases way too many things that are not needed she has hundreds of pairs of shoes but my dad is more like he's always try to portray an image where he's a minimalist when he's really not like he's got a couple houses and no cars and stuff but he he would say like oh i never buy things for myself so it's hard to say like he was materialistic but i can easily say right now you have a lot of things they don't need.
[26:11] Right and i guess they both do they both earn roughly equal amounts of money i.
[26:20] Am pretty certain my dad makes a lot more because he's the owner of a company and then my mom works for him.
[26:27] Okay in.
[26:27] A good role.
[26:28] So why does your father not say to your mother stop buying shoes like this crazy well you don't need more shoes i.
[26:42] Recently said to my girlfriend that maybe Maybe it's like he is a total, like, just people pleaser. He's all about, like, letting people do what they... Well, he claims, like, oh, you got to...
[26:57] People pleaser, sorry. Did he work very hard to please you, or are you not a person?
[27:02] Right, yeah, so it's contradicting to say that.
[27:04] No, no, it's not a people pleaser. Because a people pleaser would be like, well, I am tired, I am tired, but my son wants to play and i i want to please people my son is a person and therefore i'm going to play with my son right that would be a people pleaser you're right yes he's not a people pleaser he's a wife appeaser and those two things are different yes.
[27:27] Yes nailed it okay.
[27:28] So why does he appease his wife Life. Why doesn't he say, look, we've got to talk about this shoe thing, because you're like, listen, Imelda Marcus, you can't be buying all of these shoes. This is crazy.
[27:46] Yeah.
[27:46] I mean, this is at the expense of our children's future to some degree. And she'd say, well, we've got a lot of money. And it's like, well, yeah, but we're teaching them the wrong lessons, which is that happiness is in shoes. And we also can't say that we're worried about losing everything with have hundreds of shoes in the closet.
[28:01] Yes.
[28:01] Like, that's not right.
[28:03] Correct.
[28:04] Correct so would you say that your stepdad has any authority with regards to your mother.
[28:13] Definitely not and i just thought of this she's also very pretty and a lot younger than about 16 years.
[28:19] Well that doesn't necessarily mean that he has no authority, right authority is not you know i mean a pretty woman uh a younger pretty woman what is their age gap 16 years okay so a pretty younger woman doesn't necessarily have a cucked husband, because he's older and he's wiser and he's wealthier and so he would have some authority in in that sense right because he'd say look uh i don't mean to pull the age card on you but our age difference could legally drive a car. So you're going to have to grant me some wisdom that you don't have just because I'm older, right? So just being older and he's more successful. And so that doesn't mean that he doesn't have authority. In fact, it could go the other way. It's easily right.
[29:11] Yes.
[29:12] So why? Okay. Does he appease your mother?
[29:21] I have no clue.
[29:24] All right. What happens when you don't appease your mother?
[29:30] Oh, crazy.
[29:31] Okay.
[29:32] He goes crazy.
[29:32] Tell me an example of that from, I mean, roughly the time frame, sort of early to mid-teens. Usually that's the time when boys begin to kick back against their mothers.
[29:42] Yeah, there was a time when it was Easter Sunday, and we were churchgoers at the time. And because it was Easter Sunday, I knew that she was going to hang out at church for a very long time. It wasn't going to be the service only, but it was going to be talking to all the other church ladies and whatnot. And so we agreed that she would let me drive there on my own. We'd all meet there, and I could leave after the service. however when it came to getting ready on that morning she said get in the car like forget you know kind of forget what i said just get in the car just go and i was like hey i don't want to be stuck in church.
[30:24] All day right.
[30:25] Yeah that's not i don't want to be a pirate okay and so i decided that i was going to go lock myself in my room until she agreed because also we were in a rush We've always been in a rush everywhere that we have to go.
[30:39] Yeah, that's the two working parents thing is that they're always behind the curve, right?
[30:43] Yeah. And so I said, I'm going to lock myself in the room. Maybe at most it'll take 15 minutes. God forbid we're 15 minutes late. But I locked myself in there and she started to beg me to open the door. And I said, just tell me I can drive there and then everything's going to be fine. And then she would say, just please open the door, please open the door. And I would say, tell me I can drive there and everything's going to be fine. And she just kept begging and begging and escalating and escalating. And eventually she was beating on the door with her hands really hard. And then she started crying and sobbing like, please open the door, please. And I just shut down and just stopped replying because I already said the requirements.
[31:33] Well, the requirement was that she keep her word. You weren't imposing anything on her other than keeping her word, right?
[31:39] Yes.
[31:40] Okay.
[31:40] And so, and so, yeah, she broke down and started crying and like could almost like completely lost her voice. And just, I could hear her sobbing on the other side of the door. And then eventually they just left for church without me.
[31:56] Okay, so she can't be reasoned with?
[32:00] Not really, no. Definitely not.
[32:03] Well, no, listen, I mean, if it's not really, I don't want to be unfair to your poor mother, right? I don't want to be unfair.
[32:08] Right?
[32:08] I mean, if she can be reasoned with, maybe this was just an exception.
[32:13] Yeah, it seems like we've had other hard conversations and she'll give in, you know, say, you know what, you're right about this. Maybe I did let you down or I'm sorry that you're struggling.
[32:24] No, no, maybe I did let you down as fog, right? That's not actually conceding, right?
[32:29] Right. It just seems like, it's weird to me because I live with her right now and it seems like she is a reasonable person.
[32:38] Well, no, but she doesn't have power as much.
[32:42] Oh, yeah. Oh, good point. Yes.
[32:44] Right.
[32:45] That's what's going on.
[32:45] I mean, it's like if you're in prison and there's a prison guard who's really mean and And then you meet him in a parking lot outside of a store. Well, he's probably going to be a lot nicer because he doesn't have to talk to you anymore.
[33:00] Right. Yeah, that's exactly what we got going on here.
[33:04] Okay, got it. All right. So he appeases your mother because she escalates. So what happened after they got home from church?
[33:17] They acted like nothing happened after they left the church.
[33:20] So nothing was resolved no apologies no let's not figure out what happened no we shouldn't get to this point or nothing like that right no ok got it, ok so you're scared of girls because your mother is fucking terrifying yeah is it any more complicated than that.
[33:42] No definitely not.
[33:46] Okay and and you're scared of girls because your your lust is is driving you towards girls but your fear of becoming like your stepfather is holding you back god help me if i succeed is the eternal cry of the abused teenager regarding the opposite sex god help me if i succeed i really want to succeed but if i succeed i lose just here just like my stepfather who succeeded in getting a younger and prettier wife and is bullied and buried in shoes.
[34:18] Oh, goodness. Yeah.
[34:20] Okay. Yeah. God help me if I succeed. That was my teenage years too, right? So, okay. So you got a couple of dates here and there. And then what happened with girls in your mid to late teens?
[34:33] I had no serious relationships, except for there was one girl. We became pretty good friends. We would only kiss and hold hands, never anything more. But we got along pretty well. And so it was like my first kind of taste of intimacy and maybe like peace, like seeing eye to eye and being able to have conversations that showed me it wasn't going to get that scary. and so I liked her a lot for that but she ended up liking some other guy so she left me and that was that.
[35:11] Well did you.
[35:12] Ever ask her out? it was like going somewhere we would go on dates and stuff it was going well, but right as it was getting better I guess I did not ask her to make it really serious, because I was always so hung up on like i need to make sure that they're my actual friend like we need to be really good friends and then we can go into more stuff but i first need to make sure that we get along and that now that i look back i guess i needed to make sure that they weren't crazy.
[35:48] Well that's interesting that's interesting so why how long did you how long were you friends and sort of half dating her how long was that.
[35:56] Maybe like three months okay.
[36:03] And then she's like look if if bro's not gonna make a move really i'm gonna have to move on right.
[36:10] Exactly yes yes what ended up happening was her ex-boyfriend of a long time showed up at her house and begged and you know said all the things you gotta say like i really want this and all that which I didn't do so it makes perfect sense was he a.
[36:22] Good guy or a bad guy?
[36:25] I don't know I mean he couldn't have been that great because apparently he showed up at her house uninvited and cried and left the car with the engine running why.
[36:36] Is that bad?
[36:38] It seems a little bit crazy to me to go to her house and leave the car running and beg for her and then walk off into the distance expecting her to go chase him sorry he was honest about.
[36:48] His need for her right?
[36:50] I guess so, yeah.
[36:51] I mean, maybe it is crazy, but I mean, I've been pretty passionate about girls from time to time, and I've stated my heart and my desires and my preferences, and I mean, I don't think I'm crazy, so maybe I'm missing something, but...
[37:06] Yeah, no, then he wasn't a kidnapper or anything.
[37:09] Right?
[37:10] No, no.
[37:10] He locked her in a windowless van, so what's crazy about passionately declaring your desire for a girl?
[37:20] I guess he wasn't crazy.
[37:22] Well, no, he might have been. Maybe she showed up later. He's like some crazy stalker. But that behavior in and of itself, I guess I'd be concerned that you would associate passion with your crazy mother and then stay far away from passion. And then this guy is very passionate. And you say, well, being really passionate, honest, and direct about your needs and preferences is crazy.
[37:43] Yeah, I think that was a pattern that repeated itself because I later had a more serious girlfriend. friend and she said I was always very distant and...
[37:51] Oh, you are? No, and that's why I'm saying this. It's over the course of this conversation, you might as well be reading to me a laundry list.
[38:00] Yeah.
[38:01] I mean, do you feel that? Do you feel very distant from what you're talking about?
[38:06] Maybe, because it was a while ago. I do not feel very, like, close to the topic, I guess, or like I'm there.
[38:15] But you're in your 20s, right?
[38:18] Yeah.
[38:19] Mid-twenties? Late-twenties?
[38:21] Twenties? Twenty-six.
[38:22] Twenty-six. Okay, so we're talking ten years ago.
[38:25] Yeah.
[38:26] I mean, we're not talking fifty years ago.
[38:29] Yeah.
[38:31] And these were the foundations of the frustration that you're writing to me about, right?
[38:38] Totally.
[38:40] So, if these are the foundations of that which is the most frustrating for you at the moment, How could you not feel anything reasonably about these events and situations?
[38:53] I do. I do feel a lot of clarity on how clarity is not a feeling.
[38:57] Clarity is a judgment.
[39:03] So what is the question? I'm sorry.
[39:07] When you said that you had a girlfriend who said you seemed unemotional, is that the phrase she used? What did she say?
[39:14] Yeah, she said I acted like I didn't care or like I was too cool for it.
[39:19] Right. I mean, do you feel that any emotion has crept into your voice when we talk about your childhood?
[39:26] It i would say yes but it's kind of like how do i say like glimpses.
[39:35] I i certainly haven't felt anything from you and again we're just talking by voice so i can't see your facial expressions but um i'm pretty good at detecting when emotions come into people's voices.
[39:48] Yeah then so then i would say yes i'm very distant from everything i'm sharing okay.
[39:52] That's fine i just wanted to make sure we were on the same page as far as that goes okay so why do you think you don't feel about these things or don't feel much.
[40:07] I would have to take a guess okay do that um and my mom always kind of, had me like suppress what I felt because whenever I did mention an issue she would defend herself, instead of validate what I'm going through she would say well I'm working really hard I'm doing everything I can and instead of saying like oh you know what that's really tough I understand, that you're going through something it was kind of like maybe it's a survival mechanism, to just have to suck it up because that's what I always had to do okay.
[40:46] Of what of what use or value were your emotions when you were a kid? How did your emotions help or serve you or get you what you wanted?
[41:00] Hmm. I would maybe beg for toys I wanted or beg for permission to go hang out with my friends. And that's as far as I could see it go.
[41:18] And that would work right.
[41:22] Yeah more often than not and that's actually the only way that it could go i had to really beg every time and then eventually how hard.
[41:30] Or to what degree.
[41:31] I guess just really really repeat myself again and again like can i please go can i please go uh like you haven't let me out or and so how long.
[41:43] Would you i know it's tough to remember sometimes but how long would this have to occur in general before you would get what you wanted.
[41:52] It may be a good while, I guess, like a good 15, 20 minutes of talking in circles with my mom about why I should have her here.
[42:02] What about, I mean, your stepdad was there too, right? What about him?
[42:07] With him, it might have been instant.
[42:11] Oh, so your mom would be like, I don't want to, I don't want to, I don't want to, because what, she'd have to drive you or there would be some imposition on her? was like her yeah.
[42:20] I think it was i actually i'm not too sure it was just like no like you can't be going out there like you need to be home where i can take care of you or something like that sort or.
[42:32] If i want why do you think she didn't want you going places like deep there's a surface answer but that's not really like if you were to say i want to go to my friend's house and she would say i got a call from his mother your friend's house is currently burnt to the ground and they're in a hotel, then you would accept that, if that were true, right? You would accept that as a reasonable excuse or a reason why you couldn't go, right?
[42:55] Right, yeah. It was never really an excuse.
[42:57] No, no, but what I mean is, so there are times where there's legitimate reasons, right? If you say, I want to go to my friend's house, and you say, no, no, no, remember he's on vacation for two weeks. Right. You say, oh yeah, okay, right, so that's a reasonable, right? Now, the reason you kept complaining, so to speak, or whining or begging, the reason you did that is you didn't believe the reasons your mom gave you yeah so if you didn't believe the reasons your mom gave you as to why you couldn't go to a friend's house or something what was the real reason do you think.
[43:31] I'm not sure.
[43:35] I think you are but it's probably hard to access i say in a very annoying fashion telling you about yourself but i think i think you would know so why did your mother not want you okay was it a long drive to go to a friend's house not usually no okay so it's a short drive could you bike could you walk i.
[43:56] Could definitely bike and.
[43:57] Okay so you so you could bike and how old were you when you were having these on average like was it 10 or 8 or 12 or some other age yeah.
[44:08] It was probably Probably as I grew older enough to ride bicycles and not be so scared of the outside world, it's probably like 11, 12, 13.
[44:17] Okay, so 11 or 12, you want to go to a friend's house. You can get your own way there. You can get your own way back, right?
[44:25] Yeah.
[44:25] So why couldn't you go? Yeah.
[44:31] I don't know.
[44:33] Yes, you do. You do.
[44:36] You do.
[44:37] It happened probably 100 times or 200 times. You know your mother about as well as you know anyone in this life, right?
[44:43] Yeah. Could it be because I'm going to go see someone who's nicer than her and is a mom?
[44:50] Could be.
[44:51] Who is irrational?
[44:52] No, that's not. So somebody who is more rational than your mother?
[44:56] Yeah. So that would develop a standard, right? That could be the case. What else?
[45:08] I'm at a loss.
[45:11] Well, tell me about a couple of things. If your mother did anything that you would consider cruel, can you think of any examples of that? Or is that not something that you recall?
[45:29] I guess it was cruel. And when I shared that story earlier where I didn't want to go to school, and so she acted like she was just going to leave.
[45:37] Yep, that's sadistic, right? That's very cruel.
[45:40] Yeah, or just not fulfilling her work.
[45:42] Oh, the church thing, where she's just like crying and begging and screaming and getting hoarse. And like, that's so intense. That's incredibly cruel.
[45:51] Yeah, yeah.
[45:51] You're standing your ground, by the way.
[45:53] Thank you. It was often her not fulfilling her work. Like, she'd say something's going to happen, and then when it comes to it, it's just too much trouble.
[46:02] Right.
[46:02] Seems.
[46:03] So that's a form of betrayal. Right? If you promise a kid something, and look, there'll be occasions where, for whatever reason, you just can't fulfill it, right? That's going to very occasionally happen with regards to kids. Like, it just might happen that you just can't fulfill. You really want to, but it just doesn't work out. And that's occasionally going to happen. But. The repeated nature of breaking promises to kids is very cruel.
[46:38] Yeah.
[46:38] Because then you raise hopes and then you dash hopes. Could you think of any other examples where your mother would have been cruel or could have been cruel?
[46:54] There was a time when we went to go buy some uniforms for pe in school this was in sixth grade and we were at the front desk looking at the uniforms with some some desk workers she's showing us the the shorts and she said how about a small she showed it to us and i said said, I'm going to look effeminate, for lack of a better term. Like, oh, those shorts are so little. I'm going to look effeminate. And she gave me a look like, I can't believe you just said that. And she kind of played it off. I just knew I messed up because I was trying to make a joke. Because whenever we're in stores or stuff, everything is just so stressful and not easygoing. going, and I would pick up on that and try to make it more easygoing, more fun. So I made a joke, and she gave me a crazy look, and when we walked out of the store on the way to the car, she just would not let it go. She kept telling me that I embarrassed her and that I was just like, I don't know, it's just so dumb. Go on. Forgive me. So yeah, you just wouldn't let it go.
[48:21] And what did she say about you not wanting to look effeminate or looking foolish with the clothes too small?
[48:33] She didn't address that at all. She just said, I just embarrassed her.
[48:39] And again, I mean, I know that these are tough questions, and I appreciate your patience with trying to answer them. But what does that mean, embarrassed her? Is it because the clerks, did the clerks at the store hear or?
[48:55] Yeah, I said it as like, so that the clerk could hear it, my mom could hear it. We're kind of hanging out together, and I wanted to make a joke about the wrong size that was too small. and she just thought that was like super out of line for me to say that.
[49:10] Word why why i'm trying to i don't have a big answer for this right so i i don't have any you know magical answers for any of this i'm just sort of trying to puzzle this out because it is very interesting and i of course i can hear the emotion in your voice right so but it's really fascinating so why would that be, why would your mother consider that embarrassing Embarrassing. Because this is a... I assume the clerks were female?
[49:37] Yeah.
[49:38] Okay, so this is... We're entering as two brave, noble male warriors into girly world here. So this is where angels fear to tread.
[49:49] Right?
[49:50] All right. No, this is because we have to try and figure out female status. Right? For a long time, I couldn't figure out why that old Taylor Swift tweet of mine went so viral and got me so much negative attention. And it's because if Taylor Swift did decide to quit and have babies, literally millions of women would quit their jobs and have babies. Because women, a lot of times, just copy-paste. Like, you can't get a group of girls together without them coming up with a TikTok dance. Right. A lot of girls will copy-paste, a lot of women will copy-paste what other women do. So, it's not you, it's what the other women would think of your mother in this moment. So, your mother says, wear this, and you say, mom, that's totally wrong. It's going to make me look like a girl. Is that roughly what it was?
[50:50] Basically, yeah.
[50:50] Okay, so then she's embarrassed. And the reason is because of what the other women would think. So what would the other women think of... Your mother, if she was trying to buy you clothing that make you look effeminate, oh, she looks like a bad mother.
[51:17] Oh.
[51:18] Right? How could you not even know what your son likes? How could you want your son to wear something he hates? You must know nothing about your son. You must be a bad mother. And then she probably got a sense, and how old were you at this time?
[51:38] I must have been 11 or 12.
[51:40] Okay, so then she probably got a sense of how bad a mother she had been. That she didn't even know what you liked or didn't like. And then you announce that loudly in front of everyone and all of the other women who see their mother's coming in with stuff that their kids like and your mother comes in and she's trying to get you to wear something that you hate, and so they look at her and say what kind of mother has been a mother for 10 or 11 years and doesn't even have a single clue what her son likes or doesn't like?
[52:18] Right.
[52:19] And that's why I think that hits you in the feels. And that's why your mother got so angry. She wasn't angry at you she was angry at herself and her conscience was bothering her. And your mother, it sounds like your mother's the kind of person which is, you know, kind of tragically common. She's the kind of person that whatever makes her feel bad is bad. And if you are honest about what you don't like and that makes her look bad in front of the other women which makes her conscience feel bad, therefore you have made her feel bad therefore you are bad yeah does that make sense yeah totally it's like how the criminal hates the cop who's closing in the carp sorry the criminal hates the cop the policeman who's closing it oh.
[53:16] Yes yes yes.
[53:17] Although a carp would be very interesting as well a kind of fish so okay so this tells me something about your mother that she processes only emotions and has pretend morality to cover up a bad conscience in other words it's not that she she wouldn't say i'm so sorry, that i didn't know what you liked and put you in that awkward position.
[53:55] You know, there's this old joke on sitcoms that the father buys the kids some toy that's way too young. You know, like, I don't know, the kid's 12 and the dad comes home with hungry, hungry hippos or something like that, right? And then the kid says, you know, dad, I'm not five anymore. more and you know if if you buy something that's just you know really age inappropriate, then you you would you would feel bad as a father like how come i don't notice this how come i don't know that my kid isn't into this stuff anymore right, you know my daughter of course like most kids loved going to parks you know like play parks with slides and swings and all kinds of cool stuff. And we spent, I don't know how many thousands of hours at parks over the years. And now she sees a park, she's excited, and we'll go to the park, but we don't play the games. We might swing a little bit, but she's too old to play tag and freeze tag and all of that sort of stuff, right? Grounders is another game. So I'm aware of that, right?
[55:14] So she'd rather go bowling or to a movie or walk around the mall and chat you know that's that's the thing right so as a parent you have to track your kids growth and you have to know what your kids like and so i know it sounds like we're spending a lot of time on this but i do think it's really important that your mother was exposed as not knowing what you like which made her feel bad and because you made her feel bad you were bad and she couldn't be honest and she couldn't be humble and she couldn't deal with her bad conscience because her conscience attacks her because it's ignored she attacks you after ignoring you for years in many ways does that make sense? totally right.
[55:58] So that is cruel rather than admit her own faults she attacks you in a very serious way right?
[56:10] so she is clearly saying to you anything that you say or do that makes me unhappy, I will punish you for you must make me happy or I will punish you, and that's why your stepdad appeases her, yeah Yeah.
[56:44] And that could be why your father got killed.
[56:50] Hmm. Lesson, she escalated and caused that to happen?
[57:00] Well, I don't know. I mean, if she wanted something, I mean, he obviously, as a criminal, I assume, I mean, do you have any idea roughly how old your father was when he was murdered?
[57:11] He was 31. Okay.
[57:13] So we assume that he'd been in the cartel business for 10 to 15 years, right?
[57:20] We could assume that.
[57:21] Right. So he was a competent criminal, right? I mean, he'd survived in a criminal world for 10 to 15 years without being murdered, right? Now, that's not the easiest thing in the world to do sometimes, but he obviously was competent to do that, right?
[57:40] Okay.
[57:40] So then the question is, what changed? So, and usually, when you have more experience, you're less at risk, right? A more experienced rock climber is less in danger of falling. A more experienced driver is less likely to crash. So, if he were to make a fatal mistake in his criminal career, it more likely, much more likely would have been when he was younger, rather than when he was older, right?
[58:13] Right. And are we also assuming he wouldn't have entered that later in his life, that game, or that world?
[58:20] Well, I don't know. That's why I say we assume. assume right so if he if he died in his early he was killed in his early 30s then he may have entered in his my guess would have been mid to late teens even as a sort of runner or a lookout or something like that but uh if he was important enough to kill and he was successful enough, to get a younger woman right and an attractive woman then we assume he had some kind of success right he was an intelligent guy he had charisma he had the skills he probably did you know it's sort of like does someone pick up smoking when they're 50 well probably not and and somebody probably doesn't pick up a complicated criminal career when they're 31 yes.
[59:11] I agreed i want to make one clarification and i hope i didn't make the mistake of mixing up my stepdad with my my dad but he was older than my mom as well so everything you said still applies and this whole time we've been talking about my dad but as far as discipline it was my stepdad because my dad died when i was three years old.
[59:29] Um sorry i'm not sure what we're clarifying here my apologies.
[59:35] I just want i just remembered like i had make that mistake earlier in the call or like earlier this morning i just wanted to clarify we're talking about my real dad.
[59:42] We are talking at the moment about your real dad who was involved with drugs and was murdered in his early 30s. Is that right?
[59:48] Yes, yes, 100%.
[59:50] And your mother, was she, how old was your mother when your father was murdered, roughly?
[59:58] She must have been 25. 25.
[1:00:01] So, we assume that he had some success in the criminal sphere. It probably wasn't like, it wasn't like some Breaking Bad scenario where he needs money and decides to start running drugs and then runs afoul of people right away. So, if he had some success in his criminal career earlier, something may have changed or probably did change when he made whatever mistake it was that got him killed. I mean, criminals are not insane, right? They don't just go randomly killing people for no purpose.
[1:00:37] Yes.
[1:00:38] So he either stepped on someone's toes, cut into someone's territory, stole someone's drugs, stole some money, or refused to pay off something he was paying off before. Like, he made a very bad calculation in his criminal career to end up being murdered, right?
[1:00:54] Yes.
[1:00:54] So then the question is, if he had had some, you know, 10 to 15 years of making good decisions, then the question is, why did he make a bad decision? Like, whatever decision he made that got him killed was a bad decision, right?
[1:01:13] Totally.
[1:01:15] So again we don't know and we i mean we're just right at the flickering edges of what we could ever know because it's not like you'll ever get the truth out of your mom and your dad obviously can't tell you anything and your stepdad can't tell you anything and all of that right and the police files are probably long gone because it's you know 23 years 24 years ago 23 years ago so so you can't i mean i'm just to me it's interesting that, your mother is demanding men can't say no to her she gets her way she's a materialist and she's a spend spender right yeah and did that possibly cause your dad to make bad decisions it's a possibility right that that's all i'm right i'm saying right oh.
[1:01:58] I get it yes now because of like how can how much of a consumer she is and maybe he wanted to make more money Did.
[1:02:06] He cut corners? Did he chisel some profits? Did he not pay off someone because he wanted to buy something for your mom? I don't know, obviously, I have no idea But I'm just saying that there's a pattern here Of male appeasement and maternal greed, right?
[1:02:22] Yes, I understand perfectly now Okay.
[1:02:24] Got it So, When did the drugs hit you?
[1:02:33] It was towards the end of high school, probably senior year. I tried alcohol and weed, and I liked it. So I kept going, and then I found it. Must have been 17.
[1:02:50] Huh. I thought your girlfriend said it was earlier, but I could be wrong.
[1:02:54] Yes. Yes, I talked with her, and I clarified I was not smoking weed when I was 14. Okay.
[1:02:59] Just wanted to know. Yeah. I just wanted to check. Okay. Okay, so you only got into alcohol and drugs when you were 17, and how did that come about?
[1:03:09] I went to a party, and it was beers, free beer, so I had to try it. Whoever invited me and drove me there, they were really excited. You know, oh my God, you've never had beer before. It's super cool. And so I had a couple beers, and it happened to be the first time that I ever kissed a girl, too, because that was so nerve-wracking. smoking but I mean I had some alcohol in me so I worked and then that probably the same day when I came home I have a stepbrother he was smoking weed in the backyard like sneakily and he gave me some.
[1:03:45] All right now had your parents ever prepared you for peer pressure and alcohol and drugs and all that kind of stuff no so they had no conversations with you about teenage temptations, so you you really weren't parented, right i mean i don't want to overstate the case i mean can you think of good advice that your parents gave you that you still use to this day.
[1:04:17] Not one piece of advice and i remember telling my mom like you you think that you raised me but you didn't i think the public education system raised me.
[1:04:25] Well and you're kind of just my roommate all right right yeah it was indoctrinate you but okay yeah.
[1:04:32] Yes so yeah she never really taught me anything.
[1:04:36] Right okay so you weren't parented correct okay so then if i remember the conversation from yesterday clearly you for 18 to 22 you did a lot of drugs psychedelics um i think she said once every three weeks if i remember rightly and but of course you know correct me since you're the source material. How did the slide to drugs happen from the age of 17 onwards?
[1:05:03] I was skateboarding a lot and when I got out of high school, I had no aspirations at all. All I had was skateboarding and that was the only sort of logical thing for me to do, at least in my own head. It was like I'd like doing it and I can devote time to it. I can't really focus on anything else and everything is just too painfully boring. I couldn't imagine reading books or learning more complicated things. So I thought like maybe sport, the sport is what's for me. And I just thought let's skateboard more. And I skateboarded as much as I could. And at the skate park, people smoke a lot of weed. And eventually it was like, oh, well, if you like weed, you're really going to like acid and shrooms. You know, it's going to free your mind and you're going to understand the universe and all this stuff. I don't know if you've heard of Alan Watts.
[1:05:56] Oh, that jerk. Yeah.
[1:05:59] Right. Yeah. Yeah, and I had that Kool-Aid all day, every day.
[1:06:03] Some deal drugs, some deal syllables, okay?
[1:06:06] Yeah, yeah. So I started to experiment with it, and I like that I felt very at ease and peaceful. As if I did have answers, I never really did. Now that I look back, I don't have anything that I could say, like, oh, I'm so grateful I did that and I learned.
[1:06:22] Oh, yeah, for years I've been. People say, I get all these insights on drugs. I'm like, tell me one. on. Nope. It just gives you the feeling of insight without the actual insight, right?
[1:06:33] Oh, yeah.
[1:06:36] Alright. And so, was it accurate when your girlfriend said you do psychedelics once every three weeks?
[1:06:46] It's very hard to tell because I was smoking a lot of weed. And I wouldn't say it was that available. But it was totally something I was pursuing. Like I was trying to... Because to me, it was like every time that I do it, I'm going into like... It's like I'm going into therapy and I'm going to figure something out. And I'm going to learn and I'm going to apply it. for the following months, and then I would do it again. And so it was not that often because I had some belief that you had to apply what you learned. Whatever that meant, I always ended up really disoriented anyway. But that was the approach, like do it, have realizations, apply them for the next following months, and then do it again. So it wasn't so often. It wasn't so often as it might have seemed, unless it was maybe like microdosing, as they call it. That maybe if I could, I would do it every weekend, maybe.
[1:07:41] How often were you smoking weed?
[1:07:44] Every day.
[1:07:46] Multiple times a day, like wake and bake, or what are we talking?
[1:07:50] Usually wait till the evening. There was totally points where it was like as soon as I woke up.
[1:07:57] And how did you get the money for this?
[1:08:03] Either I would have shitty jobs, I'm sorry for the language, but like Burger King or my mom would always find a way to make sure I had at least 20 bucks on me just in case I needed to eat or something. So I kind of been mainlining that free money for a while. Until now, even.
[1:08:24] And did they know you were on drugs?
[1:08:26] No, they didn't.
[1:08:28] But you were on drugs?
[1:08:29] A way later. Yeah.
[1:08:31] How could you hide it?
[1:08:34] I guess that's just how little attention they paid. They just go to work and get home and they want to watch TV. So all I really have to do when I get home is scream up the stairs. My room's downstairs. I can just yell up the stairs, Hey, I'm home, and go to my room and hide.
[1:08:50] So they didn't know the difference between clean kit and stoned kit?
[1:08:58] Certainly not.
[1:08:59] Oh, gosh, oh, gosh. All right. All right. And this went on for four years? Four years and change?
[1:09:13] Yeah.
[1:09:15] And then?
[1:09:17] And then i was noticing like uh all the as i mean all the aspirations i might have they're not coming to fruition like my skateboarding isn't going anywhere i like sorry where.
[1:09:33] Was skateboarding supposed to go i.
[1:09:36] Have no idea maybe like get like tony hawk stuff like Yeah, like get some recognition from a brand and then maybe get some free merch, like free skateboards or free shoes, free clothes. And maybe even after that, you could get a sort of a wage or payment because you're filming really good videos. It never amounted to anything.
[1:09:57] Did you film videos and stuff?
[1:10:00] I did. Okay.
[1:10:03] Okay. So skateboarding wasn't going anywhere. And what about girls? Girls.
[1:10:10] That was not going anywhere either. I remember I had this weird perspective of girls where when girls would skateboard and they were really bad, I would think, that's so lame. I can't take girls seriously because they're so bad at what they do and all they want to do is be pretty and fake. I felt like I had no respect for them. I couldn't really, like if I saw them, well, first of all, I wouldn't run into a lot of girls, nor would I talk to them in public. But if I saw them at the skate park, I would just hate them because they were bad at skateboarding.
[1:10:48] Right. Okay. And was that fairly common in the culture at the time?
[1:10:55] I don't think that we openly would talk about like hating girls because skateboarding was like a place where you're supposed to be open and inviting towards everyone. one and so we wouldn't openly say it but i wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the guys shared similar opinions where they hate women for no good reason who knows well i mean.
[1:11:18] When you said they're just there to be pretty.
[1:11:21] Yeah i.
[1:11:23] Mean who's that right.
[1:11:27] Um who's that yeah who's that who's the girl who's.
[1:11:31] The person who whose primary value is as being attractive in your life?
[1:11:37] Who's my mother?
[1:11:38] Are you asking or telling me?
[1:11:41] I'm not sure. Oh, yeah, well, I guess it would be my mom because she's not, her purpose isn't to be my mom, but just to be pretty and get a husband.
[1:11:51] Okay, I mean, was she a good mother?
[1:11:54] No.
[1:11:55] Was she a good wife?
[1:11:58] She couldn't be.
[1:12:00] She what?
[1:12:01] She couldn't possibly be if she's not raising children.
[1:12:04] Well, no, I mean, mother and wife could be different, right?
[1:12:08] All right. Well, if she's going crazy when you're saying, oh, then she couldn't be a good wife.
[1:12:14] Well, I don't think so. And then also she would end up with your stepfather having to work more because he's the primary income earner and she's spending a a lot of money, so that means that her greed is wrapped up into you being neglected, right?
[1:12:32] Totally.
[1:12:33] So then the primary value that your mother would bring to the table is being pretty.
[1:12:41] Right.
[1:12:42] So if the primary value that the woman brings to the table is being pretty, then her life is a form of sex work.
[1:12:52] Totally.
[1:12:54] So that would probably have something to do with the contempt you might have, for women in the skateboard arena. Okay. And then how did you quit? You quit at 22, is that right? Right.
[1:13:11] Yeah, it was because I guess what happened was I saw all my aspirations not really leading anywhere. And so I decided that I needed to go to therapy to see what was going on. And I was noticing like I need to do school or I need to do some more brainy stuff if I want to have a stable life. But every time that I try, it's so painfully boring. so I want to go talk to a therapist maybe we can get to the bottom maybe we can get to some patterns in me or whatever made.
[1:13:44] You think of therapy.
[1:13:45] Probably like my suspicion of having ADHD and like how I mean at that time it was like everyone was getting brainwashed at the same time about like oh we all have ADHD all of a sudden everybody has sorry how long have you been listening.
[1:14:01] To what i do.
[1:14:02] Uh four years four or five years okay.
[1:14:08] So this would be about the same time so maybe you heard me talk about therapy.
[1:14:11] Possible okay all right yeah and so okay so you went to therapy.
[1:14:17] And what happened he.
[1:14:19] Told me that i did have adhd and that medication was like the first step and so i got amphetamines prescribed and then And I was just so busy, I guess, trying to get a graphic design going because I was really into art.
[1:14:36] And how did you, sorry, did the, did the ADHD stuff work?
[1:14:41] It worked for about a year or less. Like it just, I noticed it just started working less and less. And that's when I saw, I mean, I was already kind of skeptical about it. But when I saw that it one day helped and then months later, it was like I didn't even take anything. I started to see that it wasn't working. But ultimately, it was how busy I was with the medication and graphic design that gave me no time to go skateboard or do psychedelics or all that. I just thought that stuff isn't helping me focus. It's not helping me accomplish goals or be more dedicated or disciplined. So I thought, sure, it might be great. It might free your mind, but it's not helping me be productive. So I'm going to stop doing that and try this instead. And once it stopped working, I kind of decided, like, whatever I do, as long as I'm not on that stuff, it should be better. And so I would just play video games and do whatever I could to stay away from it.
[1:15:42] Okay. All right. And so you did the graphics design starting at round 22, 23?
[1:15:50] Yes.
[1:15:51] And then what happened?
[1:15:55] I got pretty decent at it and had a portfolio and a website, but I felt like I maybe needed to go see people in person. We currently live, and back then, I lived in a smaller town where it's mostly construction work and other stuff. It's nothing artsy here. I thought I needed to move to a big city where I can meet people and really start to rub elbows with people who work in the industry. And so I tried to save up some money, and eventually my parents gave me some money. and grabbed all my belongings. You were working in the fields.
[1:16:27] Right?
[1:16:28] It was so scattered. I would get small, tiny, less than $100 jobs or just nothing serious. I loaded everything in the car and I moved to a big city.
[1:16:42] Okay.
[1:16:44] How old were you then? I was 24.
[1:16:47] 24, okay.
[1:16:50] When I moved out there, there I would deliver food for Uber and just kind of try to work on my hustle on the side, I guess. And it kind of wasn't going anywhere. I was just working a lot, and I saw it wasn't really going anywhere, so I thought I need to try school.
[1:17:15] Sorry, but your stepfather is a businessman, right?
[1:17:19] Yes.
[1:17:19] Did he give you any advice on how to start a business or run a business?
[1:17:25] His advice was always go to school.
[1:17:29] Did what he did, he went to school?
[1:17:32] Yes.
[1:17:35] So he didn't say, if you want to do this on your own, here's what you need to do for marketing, here's what you need to do for promotions, here's what you need to do to incorporate. I mean, he would know all of that stuff, right?
[1:17:47] Right.
[1:17:48] So did he just not want to talk to you?
[1:17:53] That would be the probable answer, yeah. He always just said, just go to school, just go to school. He had a big deal with me not going to school. And so if I didn't go to school, what was he going to tell me? I guess that was his approach.
[1:18:06] Well, a lot, right?
[1:18:08] Right.
[1:18:09] Okay. And the ADHD thing, I think, has a lot to do with neglect and isolation. I mean, this is obviously just my complete amateur opinion, which means absolutely nothing, it's just a nonsense opinion that I have, but I think that the ADHD is a mind that races because we're designed to think socially, and if you're isolated, you have to do everything. Normally, when you build a house, you've got a plumber, a drywaller, an electrician, the electrical guy, and each one is specialized. If you have to do it all yourself, it's a crazy amount of work. That's spot on. Yeah. So I think that the ADHD stuff is a brain that's revved up too much. It's like you can't get any good sleep if nobody guards you in the woods. Like if you have to sleep in the woods, we always have this in Dungeons and Dragons campaign. We sleep in the wilderness. All right. Who's taking the first watch? Who's taking the second watch? who's taking the third watch because you know monsters can come by at night and if you're sleeping alone uh you don't get much sleep because your brain can't relax because you're not guarded you're not protected you're not offloading your security to someone else's diligence so i think isolation leads to this kind of you got to do everything yourself and you then not part of a team and you know we are social animals we're supposed to be part of a team.
[1:19:22] Hey sorry about that i started your your answer cut out.
[1:19:25] Oh yeah no problem so i was just saying that, sorry where did we get to I don't want to reiterate too much yeah.
[1:19:34] You were just saying if someone's building a house you have to do absolutely everything it's way too much work and I agree 100%.
[1:19:41] Yeah and I'm saying so in Dungeons and Dragons like when we play, you camp in the wilderness and the first thing is okay who's taking the first watch who's taking the second watch who's taking the third watch because the monsters can come by at night and you need to be protected right And so you can't get much sleep if nobody's guarding you because we offload. The reason we can sleep so deeply is because we're supposed to be protected. And so, if you're not protected, you can't relax, and you have to work way too hard. You have to work way too hard. And so, I think that the ADHD is a mind that is overextended, is over-revving, because, it is not, it hasn't offloaded part of its processing to others. We're supposed to have a shared brain. We're part of a social animal. Like if you've ever had to move furniture, if you can only use one arm, that arm gets really tired because it's doing too much work. And I think it's the same thing with ADHD. Again, that's just complete opinion, total nonsense. But that's sort of my approach.
[1:20:50] Right. That's spot on.
[1:20:52] And what was the case with dating in your late teens, early 20s?
[1:20:57] I had a girlfriend. It's probably, it's one of three girlfriends. I didn't have many in my life. It was going well until it wouldn't. Anytime we had disagreements, it was really harsh trying to get some sort of conclusion. And it ended up ending suddenly. We had pretty much a long day of trying to work out what was wrong. And I said, you know what, maybe we should just both go home and then talk about it another day. because we're really tired and we're stressed and tired and we're not getting anywhere. Let's just revisit it. And she decided to never see me again after that.
[1:21:43] Right. And how long were your relationships?
[1:21:48] Short, six to eight months.
[1:21:51] Okay. All right. So how close are we to getting to when you meet the woman I talked to yesterday?
[1:22:00] So then after that, That girlfriend suddenly, seemingly suddenly disappeared. I had one more girlfriend and it was like, I didn't think she was cool enough because she was terrible at skateboarding or she didn't really have a lot of drive. And then she also wasn't as pretty as the one before. So it was like, oh, you know what? This isn't working out. So we went separate ways. And how long was that one? Probably six months as well. And after that ended, I tried to really focus on myself. And then maybe two years passed, I moved to a bigger city, and that's where I met my girlfriend.
[1:22:44] You mean the girl I talked to yesterday?
[1:22:46] Yes.
[1:22:47] Okay, so how did she end up getting a car and her education paid for and room and board within a couple of months of you guys dating? That's the part I was really struggling with yesterday.
[1:23:00] Yeah, I understand. We were dating for maybe eight months and she ended up having this health issue with one of her ovaries and we were going between hospitals trying to get answers. We couldn't get any. then we happened to visit my hometown because my mom was having a huge birthday party and they said go to the doctor as well might as well you're already here it's right across the border they're really good doctors that's where my parents get all their medical care, and so we went and they figured it out well they they had they figured out it was a cyst And then we had to fly back to the big city. While we were there, we had some time to think, what can we do now that we have a little bit of direction? Then Christmas time came around and my mom said, come visit again. And then you could get all that dealt with.
[1:23:57] And she said, well, you might as well do it for good. because it was right there it was right then when I started to take a turn more towards school and I saw how all the minimum wage work I was doing was only getting in the way of school and I wasn't necessarily like excited to live with my parents again but if it meant that I could have a career and then I could give my girlfriend and I a good life then I was willing to do it and so I it was It was kind of not the most elaborate conversation between me and my girlfriend. It was more like my mom said, just do it. Just do it. Just come over here and I'll pay for everything. You don't have to pay rent. You don't have to worry about anything. Just go to school and fix her health issues and just get a good start on the year. And so we said, might as well. All we have over here is minimum wage work. So we did it. And you want me to explain now maybe how she ended up getting all the benefits and stuff?
[1:25:00] Well, I mean, I can understand from a just basic human charity thing, helping her out with the medical bills. Right. It's a lot of generosity to extend to someone who's not family, right?
[1:25:14] Mm-hmm.
[1:25:15] In other words, if you were married, then your girlfriend would be family, right?
[1:25:19] Yes.
[1:25:22] So roughly, how much do you think they've spent on her? including some of the room and board stuff, there's a monetary value to that, right?
[1:25:30] Yeah, pretty close to $80,000.
[1:25:35] So $80,000 spent on a woman who's your girlfriend?
[1:25:40] Yeah.
[1:25:41] Because are they also paying her tuition?
[1:25:43] Yes.
[1:25:44] So they're paying tuition, books, school, as a whole, room and board, gave her a free car, paid medical bills, and so on, right?
[1:25:53] Oh, yeah, even... We can go shopping and they give her money for that.
[1:25:58] So she's on like an allowance.
[1:26:01] Sort of. It's very scattered. It's never spoken about. It's like, oh, let's go to the mall on Sunday. And then we're like, oh, sure. And then come Sunday, she's like, all right, I'm going to give you this much. I'll give you this much. And we're just kind of like, what?
[1:26:14] Okay. So why are your parents, is it mostly a mother who's driving this? What does your stepfather think?
[1:26:20] He doesn't think anything. I think he's just kind of like a, I want to say like a happy-go-lucky guy. He's always like, yes, yes, happy, happy, yeah. Go to the mall. Let's go do that. He never has spoken about any of these details. It's just like, oh, your girlfriend wants to go to school? Yeah, she should totally go to school. Oh, it's how much money to pay to do a final? He'll be like, yeah, do it. Yeah, take the final. Anything at all. He's just a yes, yes guy.
[1:26:49] Okay. So it's mostly driven by your mother and your father, your stepfather is going along with it. Is that right?
[1:27:00] Yes.
[1:27:01] So why is your mother spending this much money on your girlfriend?
[1:27:10] Really want to know.
[1:27:13] I'm sorry?
[1:27:14] I would really like to know.
[1:27:16] Well, you must have some idea. I mean, how long has this been going on for?
[1:27:23] It's seven eight months now.
[1:27:25] So seven or eight months and you know she's got i know you she said you were on an accelerated study but it's got another year plus to go right yeah and then you know if you want to start a business or a consulting business or you need to travel for work or whatever then i assume that they'll fund that too right totally i'm sorry totally yes right so what is the story here you must have some theory as to why, your mother is spending all this money on you i mean did she pay for your therapy, yes oh she paid for your therapy okay and she paid for your skateboarding career or was that mostly funded by your jobs it.
[1:28:10] Was both but that mostly her because i never had to pay rent or there was always food at home. I didn't even have to pay my own phone bill.
[1:28:21] So how much money do you think they've transferred to you since the age of 18?
[1:28:30] Maybe 50 or 70,000.
[1:28:35] So 50,000, you're 26. So from the age of 18, that would be seven years. So that'd be about 8,000 a year.
[1:28:45] Right.
[1:28:45] I think it's more than that if you count rent and food. Isn't it?
[1:28:51] Right, if we count, yes.
[1:28:53] And therapy and?
[1:28:55] I would say a hundred, maybe two even, a hundred.
[1:28:59] A hundred to two hundred thousand?
[1:29:01] Yeah.
[1:29:02] Okay. So why are they, and they did this, of course, also when you were doing drugs and you would take some of the money that your parents gave to you and spend it on drugs, right?
[1:29:13] Yes.
[1:29:14] Okay. So that was not helpful.
[1:29:18] Right.
[1:29:18] I mean, that cost you a couple of years of your life to some degree, right?
[1:29:22] Totally.
[1:29:23] Okay. So why are they giving you all of this money? Like if they've done between $100,000 and $200,000 to you and another $80,000, right? That's, you know, somewhere between $180,000 and $280,000. That's a huge amount of money. And why are they doing this?
[1:29:43] Maybe it'll keep us corrupted and like...
[1:29:48] The guessing is no emotional content behind it. Like, you'll know in your gut when you're getting close to the truth.
[1:29:58] Okay. I would say it'll, it'll, I still want, I still think it's worth mentioning it would, it would keep us dependent on them and then I wouldn't be able to leave because I've lived off free stuff my whole life.
[1:30:16] What do you mean by leave? Because you did leave for a while, right?
[1:30:20] Yeah.
[1:30:21] And did they object to that a lot?
[1:30:24] They did but at the same time they did say they're so proud that i like left the nest and stuff.
[1:30:33] Okay so it's not necessarily to keep you around because i mean if you have to travel for computer programming after your degree then i'm sure they wouldn't say no you have to stay in the house right could.
[1:30:48] It be they're trying to buy my my love they're trying to prove like we are your parents and we did care and we do care so here's some money that way you feel like we do care.
[1:31:04] Yeah i think my my instinct which is not nonsense right so if it doesn't fit your experience obviously tell me and we'll but i i think they're just trying to cover up neglect oh yeah right, because you have a tough time succeeding in the world because you were neglected as a child.
[1:31:24] Yeah 100 and.
[1:31:26] So if we subsidize you then the deficiencies in their parenting would become clear.
[1:31:32] Yes glaringly clear right, Yeah.
[1:31:43] So it's like, you know, schooling is shitty. And so the government has to give free money to people to go to university to cover up how shitty schooling is, right? Because, you know, you graduate with no useful skills at all, right?
[1:31:57] Right.
[1:32:00] So it's kind of like your life was bad, so you took drugs. And their parenting was bad, so they give money.
[1:32:08] Yep.
[1:32:13] Would you say that you're any closer to your parents now than you were in your teens?
[1:32:20] No. Maybe in the sense, like, there has been moments where I've completely broken down. Like, there was a time I was in the big city and I hadn't talked to my parents in a very long time. But I was living in my car at the time. And I told them that, like, I wanted to buy a new car. And they sent me. $10,000 and it just completely like broke me.
[1:32:52] Go on.
[1:32:55] Because it felt like, I know this isn't maybe the case, but it felt like my heart softened and I saw that they do care and they do love me. And I remember telling my mom like how hard I was crying over text messages just because I was so grateful. so I thought I was like gone forever from the house and from their help or whatever and they just sent me a ton of money when I was really needing it but.
[1:33:23] Don't you think that parents who genuinely love their children would not have their children end up living in a car without their knowledge totally actually okay they would know, okay what is the what are the what are the price or what is the cost of taking this amount of money for you and your girlfriend and in particular for your girlfriend i mean nothing is free right so what is the cost of taking this money.
[1:34:01] I i'm not sure that's a good question and we were trying to explore that yesterday or not, Maybe some sort of servitude or just, how do I say it, so that we remain honoring them or respecting them or helping them. Or maybe they're trying to buy people who will take care of them when they're old. Or what is the cost of hiding that they failed me as parents? or putting a Band-Aid on something that's not. Like, if it's a big wound, you don't need a Band-Aid, you don't need cash, you need other things, perhaps.
[1:34:44] Well, I mean, they paid for you to go to therapy. Have they themselves ever gone to therapy?
[1:34:49] No.
[1:34:50] I guess you've never gone to therapy as a family, right?
[1:34:54] No.
[1:34:54] Okay. What is the price of your masculinity in your relationship with your girlfriend when mommy is paying all the bills?
[1:35:14] The price, about $100,000, I guess.
[1:35:17] What is the price in terms of your masculinity or leadership in your relationship with your girlfriend when your mommy is paying her bills and your bills?
[1:35:28] I guess I have no say. Just like my dad has no say.
[1:35:31] Do you have any masculine authority as a provider and a protector when mom is paying all the bills and putting the roof over your head and food in your belly and buying presents for your girlfriend?
[1:35:51] I guess I have none.
[1:35:52] Well, I don't know. I'm asking. I've never been in this situation, so I don't know.
[1:35:56] What is the price? What is it like, you say?
[1:35:59] No. I mean, what effect does it have on your masculine authority in your relationship, when she goes to your mom for money?
[1:36:13] I'm not too sure. I do feel, I guess, weird because I don't, I don't, I'm not the provider and I can't say things for certain. Like, this is a good idea. That's a bad idea.
[1:36:33] What is your mother saying about your attractiveness as a man is she has to give $80,000 to your girlfriend?
[1:36:44] What does it say that i am not attractive.
[1:36:47] But i'm i mean if your mother feels that she needs to give eighty thousand dollars and by the time next year rolls around maybe it's a hundred and fifty thousand dollars right and with no marriage no grandkids no family no commitment right, What does it say about your attractiveness, if your mother has to give $150,000 to your girlfriend?
[1:37:19] She must not respect me or look up to me in any way, my mother.
[1:37:27] Well, that's the question I had about your girlfriend yesterday. Is your mother half-bribing your girlfriend to be with you?
[1:37:37] I would say very likely.
[1:37:50] How much money do you think you'll be making roughly in a couple of years time after you graduate you get your career started as a in computers in five years let's say let's just say three years right so you graduate next year two years after that what's your guess i mean assume you've done some market research and said okay with this kind of degree in this kind of location, what's the average salary?
[1:38:19] Between $80,000 and $120,000.
[1:38:24] Really?
[1:38:26] I heard that's what people get at computer science. Are you at a computer? Right now.
[1:38:32] Yeah?
[1:38:33] Yeah. Okay.
[1:38:34] So look up average salary for your degree, say, upon graduation, and we can extrapolate 5% a year up from that, or 10%, or whatever it is, right? Because not I heard, you actually want some facts, right? And, because I would do it, but I don't want you to give me all the details about your education, so $80,000 to $120,000 within two years of graduation is very high. Like Canadian, that's like, I don't know, $120,000 to $160,000 a year two years after graduation. Now, maybe it's some really hard-to-obtain, incredibly specialized degree. Maybe this is the case. But I'd be surprised.
[1:39:21] Yeah, I looked it up. Do you want me to tell you?
[1:39:24] Yeah, what is it?
[1:39:26] The average starting salary for a computer science graduate, typically between $70,000 and $100,000 per year.
[1:39:34] Is that right? Right. So even with all of the H-1B visas and the immigrants coming in and all of that, it still remains 70 to 110. And where is that?
[1:39:46] It doesn't say for the 70 to 100, but then it says salaries can be higher in tech hubs like San Francisco, New York, Seattle, where the average might be closer to 90 to 120. 20.
[1:39:55] Okay, got it. Well, you know, I guess I stand corrected. I thought computer salaries were going down these days. Now, what kind of computer science degree is that and from where? I mean, it's one thing to get, you know, a four-year degree from Stanford. It's another thing to get a shorter degree from a more no-name college.
[1:40:17] Right. It doesn't say, But I could ask, it's on ChatGPT.
[1:40:22] If you could, yeah. Again, I'm happy to be corrected. It's been a long time since I've been in the computer science market, but that's some pretty wild salaries for straight out of college.
[1:40:41] If you can demonstrate strong technical skills and relevant experience, online graduates can be just as competitive.
[1:40:50] Well, no, but you don't have...
[1:40:53] Any experience.
[1:40:53] Any experience, right?
[1:40:55] Yeah.
[1:41:01] So, with no experience and a smaller college name? Or I don't know if your school has, have they done salary surveys of graduates?
[1:41:14] Asking currently. Could be lower than the national average, typically ranging between 60 and 80.
[1:41:29] Because you're a, I know you're doing your degree accelerated, but it's two years, right? yeah okay so what would the equivalent be would that be a three-year degree if it wasn't accelerated.
[1:41:43] It would be a four-year.
[1:41:44] Okay so you're taking four years and compressing it into two is that right yes okay got it all right okay so let's say you make 80 right and your girlfriend would hopefully make something similar right, So you could go from, I mean, if you've got a combined salary of 160, then you could, that's pretty sweet, right?
[1:42:15] Yeah.
[1:42:16] That's like 220 or whatever it is, Canadian. Again, I'm a little shocked, but I'm obviously perfectly thrilled that that's the case. Obviously, the data means more than my random thoughts about the business as a whole. So you could then start your life pretty quickly, right?
[1:42:35] Hopefully. Okay.
[1:42:41] So, this may be a wise decision, right? I mean, just be aware that there's a cost of these kinds of things as well, right? That nothing is free.
[1:42:51] Yeah. Oh, yeah, it's going to be hard work.
[1:42:54] No, no, I don't mean that. I mean, the work you have to do for your paycheck. I'm just talking about a lot of free stuff from your parents.
[1:43:03] Right.
[1:43:04] Now, do they want you to get married to the woman?
[1:43:09] Yeah.
[1:43:10] And do you want to get married to her?
[1:43:12] I do. Okay.
[1:43:13] And what is it about her that most attracts you?
[1:43:21] We get along very well. and we make the best of every situation. It's very easygoing, very fun to be around, very understanding, very patient, very willing to set aside her frustrations or whatever shortcomings she might have, she's willing to do whatever it takes to overcome it.
[1:43:45] All right. So is there anything else that I can help you with? I mean, it sounds like you're comfortable with the way things are going. It sounds like you've got a good, well-paying career that's starting within a year or 18 months. Is there anything else that I can help you with regarding your life as a whole?
[1:44:04] Yeah, maybe I don't want to repeat.
[1:44:11] No, I feel free to repeat.
[1:44:13] No, I mean, doesn't like repeat maybe patterns that my parents put into me or like, like how you could clearly see like I hated women because they just wanted to be pretty and I hated my mom. So in turn, I hated the same thing at the at the skate parks or perhaps. explore more like the cost or of this free stuff or also i'm really concerned with, like the well-being of my sister she's currently 16 and she's having all the same problems that i had when i was 16 sort of i don't know if she's smoking weed and stuff but she's struggling to really like make sense of things she's in high school in a public school and i see her just completely lost at least it seems to me not one of me i you answered that question for my girlfriend yesterday and how that isn't our problem our siblings aren't necessarily our problem, but i think what i'm sorry you've.
[1:45:11] Created and it's a problem that you don't really have any authority over and so you heard all of that stuff yesterday.
[1:45:16] Yeah so.
[1:45:18] I mean i won't repeat the stuff Enough that I told your girlfriend.
[1:45:23] Yeah, no need.
[1:45:25] So you're saying that you feel more affection for your parents because they're paying your bills?
[1:45:34] Not maybe. Yes.
[1:45:37] Certainly when you got the 10 grand and you were living in your car, you felt very close to and relieved. And you said it meant that they cared and loved me, right?
[1:45:47] Right. Okay.
[1:45:49] Okay, so you can overcome neglect by giving money.
[1:45:57] And that is what I'm struggling with, because every day I feel like I don't like my parents. They're just some roommate. I've even told my girlfriend, like, wouldn't it be totally sensible for a child to grow up in this house and eventually think to themselves, why can't I just get the money without having to talk to these people? And so sometimes I struggle to be at ease with these thoughts. Like I go out to the kitchen and I see my parents and I'm just like, ugh, some losers here. And I guess that is the cost perhaps of taking the free money that I have to be around people I don't like.
[1:46:39] Well, it depends whether you consider that they are creating a future obligation for you or making up for past neglect.
[1:46:50] I would say they're, if it had to be one or the other. I mean, it's probably both, but it's probably them making up for past neglect.
[1:46:58] Okay. So if I have a friend and he lends me $500, then I have to pay that $500 back, right?
[1:47:07] Right.
[1:47:08] So I'm paying back for his past generosity. I'm paying him back for a debt I incurred in the past. Now, I don't get to say to him, let's say he lends me $500, and a couple of months later, I pay him back the $500. I don't get to say to him, you now owe me because I paid you back. Does that make sense?
[1:47:33] Right.
[1:47:33] You've got to give me free dinner, and you've got to help me move houses because I paid you $500. He'd say, well, you didn't give me $500. you paid me back the money that I lent to you. That doesn't create a big obligation for me now. Does that make sense? I actually did you a favor by lending you the $500. So if your parents are giving you money to make up for prior neglect, it doesn't create future obligations on your part any more than me paying back a friend I lent money to means that he owes me endless favors.
[1:48:07] Right.
[1:48:09] So if you're like, well, they neglected me, they didn't parent me, they're distant, they're kind of cold, my mother has maybe a bit of a cruel streak, so I'll take the money as a compensation for how I was neglected as a child, but it doesn't create future obligation on me. But if you say to yourself, well, they give me and my girlfriend hundreds of thousands of dollars, I owe them for the rest of my life, that's a decision that you Obviously, I can't make that decision. I can't make anyone's decision for them, but that's the decision that you have to make. Are you getting compensation for past neglect without creating future obligations, or are your future obligations being bought and paid for with the money?
[1:48:57] Yes. Yes, I would like to say I definitely don't owe anyone anything after this. After I get my life together, they can give me all they want, but I'm never going to owe them anything.
[1:49:08] Well, okay, so that's a choice that you have to make, and it's something you have to get clear in your mind. You don't necessarily have to communicate this to your parents. In fact, you probably shouldn't, but it's something that you need to have clear in your mind.
[1:49:23] Gotcha.
[1:49:25] I mean, nothing makes up for that kind of neglect, but this does help a little bit in terms of getting your life on track, right?
[1:49:32] Yeah.
[1:49:34] And one of the challenges will be that you will get out into the workplace, you're still going to lack some social skills because you were so isolated as a child, and that's going to have to be something you look at when it comes to job interviews and when you get a job and working with people and so on. There probably will be a little bit of a few challenges that way because of the isolation you had as a kid. but I mean that's something that can be dealt with with alertness and so on but, I think that would be the thing that I would look out for if I was in your shoes Gotcha, Is there anything else that I can help you with at the moment? I mean, I'm sure there's tons of stuff over the course of your life, but sort of at the moment.
[1:50:26] Right. I guess I really should avoid ever talking about, I'm asking if I should totally avoid, talking about all the neglect or the feelings that are coming up as I go to my parents. because there's days where like maybe a month ago I was doing homework and instead I started instead of focusing I was just thinking about my father's death and how violent and horrible that is and I feel like it's always a mistake to go talk to them about what I'm going through like every time I talk to them it just it's just so weird it just doesn't help so I want the The question is like to stop talking to them about all the ongoing, all the healing that's happening within me regarding all the neglect, because ultimately like they would have noticed it or they would have, as you said, grown a conscience at some point and reached out to me about it, but they never have. And so would you recommend I just completely try to avoid that and be just a good roommate in this house? Never try to speak of that stuff.
[1:51:38] Well, I think when you've had a relationship for 26 years, and I guess the first couple of years you don't remember, like most of us, but when you've had a relationship for a quarter century or so, I think you kind of have to accept that people are who they are, and there aren't going to be any big radical changes. They are who they are. They're not going to fundamentally change.
[1:52:01] Gotcha.
[1:52:02] Now, it could be the case that if they wake up with some bizarre dream or epiphany or a lightning strike or, you know, God himself comes down and warms their heart, then it could be that after years of them really working hard, they could change, but there's no indication of anything like that happening, right?
[1:52:22] Yeah.
[1:52:24] So, in general, you have the great good fortune of 20-plus years conscious experience of interactions with your parents, and if you've never had a productive, honest conversation with them, then that is what it is. And there's no magic language that's going to unlock their hearts or open their connection or anything like that. So, I mean, I don't know whether you should or should not have more honest conversations with your parents, but if your instincts tell you that it, well, if your history tells you it's never been productive and your instincts say to don't do it, probably not the worst thing in the world to listen to that until those instincts change.
[1:53:07] Gotcha.
[1:53:07] And it's fine to let them, you know, they can take the steps if they want. It's not your job to manage your relationship with your parents because they, as parents, define the relationship.
[1:53:17] Right. Well, thank you so much for that one. I always felt like I have so much, like, because I'm the first to see how horrible all this is. Like, I have some responsibility to go talk about it and show them how they made mistakes. but I don't think that's the case.
[1:53:37] No no it's totally fine to let people go and see if they, find you see if they notice see if they care see if they miss you and see if they are willing to make an effort because if you're the only one making an effort in a relationship it's not a relationship it's just an exploitation, let other people do the work and see what happens there's nothing wrong with that in fact that's pretty healthy in just about all of our relationships relationships.
[1:54:03] Wow. That might be everything I needed.
[1:54:10] Good, good, good. Well, listen, I really do appreciate the conversation today. I certainly wish you and your girlfriend the very best, and congratulations on getting off the drugs, getting into the education, getting into the field. I'm perfectly thrilled to hear about all of that, and I hope that you'll keep me posted about how things are going.
[1:54:26] Will do. Thank you so much, Sylvain.
[1:54:27] Thanks, brother. Take care. Bye-bye.
[1:54:29] Bye-bye.
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