0:00 - Introduction
13:13 - Previous Relationship and Children
20:05 - Childhood Trauma and Family History
26:09 - Teen Years and Addictive Behaviors
28:27 - Discovering Self-Knowledge
33:33 - Meeting Current Wife and Relationship Dynamics
36:30 - Recent Relationship Struggles
41:44 - Disconnect in Marriage
46:36 - Resentment and Parenting Styles
49:26 - Co-sleeping Disagreement
1:15:57 - Emotional Childhood Trauma Resurfaced
1:30:08 - Realization and Regret
1:37:22 - Life's Decisions and Marital Issues
1:49:13 - Uncovering Emotional Needs
2:00:09 - Realization and Reflection
2:06:31 - Breaking Toxic Cycles
2:12:49 - Commitment to Change and Family
2:17:30 - The Reality of Moving On
I have a heartfelt conversation with a caller, who opens up about a turbulent past marked by his mother's tragic death, a tumultuous failed relationship, and current marital struggles. The caller bravely shares details of his challenging childhood, his mother's battle with drug addiction, and the emotional void he experienced growing up. We delve into the caller's ex-partner's substance abuse issues, custody challenges, and the hardships he faced following his mother's untimely passing. Despite the adversities faced, the caller seeks guidance and insights to untangle his past and navigate his current circumstances.
Throughout our discussion, the caller recounts traumatic events from his upbringing, including losing family members to incarceration and violence, as well as grappling with substance abuse and its impact on his relationships. He candidly reflects on the difficulties in his marriage, acknowledging emotional distance, criticism, and substance abuse issues. We explore the intricacies of his relationship with his wife, focusing on differences in parenting styles and breakdowns in communication. The caller acknowledges struggles with dissociation and expresses a genuine desire to enhance the quality of his present and rekindle the emotional connection in his marriage.
Delving deeper into the conversation, I address the caller's struggle with control and aggression towards his wife, tracing back to his history of abuse and neglect, particularly at the hands of his grandmother, whom he characterizes as malevolent. Together, we unpack the residual effects of his past traumas on his present behavior towards his spouse, stressing the significance of recognizing and dismantling these detrimental patterns. We navigate through the caller's complex relationship with his grandmother, including her involvement with his children, as we strive towards illuminating underlying issues and fostering healing for improved relationships.
As the dialogue progresses, we explore the caller's prolonged living arrangement with his grandmother due to financial constraints, unraveling the negative sentiments harbored towards this situation. I challenge the caller to contemplate the impact of prioritizing his grandmother's wishes over his family's well-being, urging him to confront the emotional and financial investments entwined in his current living circumstances. We unearth deeper layers of internal conflict and regret as the caller grapples with the repercussions of standing up to his grandmother while recognizing the strains on his familial relationships.
In another segment, the caller and I delve into the intricacies of his marital issues, focusing on intimacy, emotional support, and communication dynamics within the relationship. We explore the caller's wife's discontentment and potential leanings towards divorce, emphasizing the imperative nature of actively engaging with and fulfilling her emotional needs to mend the relationship's fabric. With reflections on past missteps and a call for proactive efforts in understanding and addressing his wife's emotional requirements, we underscore the pivotal role of effective communication and earnest endeavors in nurturing relationships.
Concluding the conversation, we tackle the caller's admission of nagging and criticizing his wife for an extended period, highlighting the corrosive impact of his actions and the influence of his grandmother's dynamics on his behavior. I advocate for his accountability, urging him to embark on the journey of reconciliation with his wife for the sake of their children. We delve into the significance of acknowledging past traumas, breaking free from negative cycles, and prioritizing concerted efforts towards relationship repair. With guidance on embracing honesty and committed efforts towards positive transformations, we part ways with a shared resolve towards fostering healthier and more fulfilling relationships.
[0:00] So, the marriage. Let's hear all about it.
[0:02] Okay. We have been married since 2020. And, you know, I think we've had ups and downs like most couples. We don't really argue a whole lot, but there's definitely a lack of communication going on. um this what prompted the call to you was last week i received a text from my wife saying that she was going to go stay with her mom for a while, and at the time it seemed out of the blue but looking back on it now um i definitely, could see some changes in attitude and changes in actions i guess.
[0:56] And then I was pretty frantic so I emailed you real quick I didn't give a lot of detail I know, and since I've talked to you ever since and the issues are much deeper than I could have imagined or well I probably should have but they're much deeper than I thought they were initially, and at the moment she is staying at her mom's she has told me that she's definitely contemplating divorce, sorry i.
[1:34] Don't want to interrupt but i'm not sure when you're when you're done.
[1:37] Yeah i uh we do have two children together and i have one from the previous relationship as well So that is a big factor in the marriage as well.
[1:48] Previous relationship, but not a previous marriage. Is that right?
[1:52] Correct.
[1:55] Okay.
[1:58] Yeah, that relationship was not good from the start. Yeah, I'm not sure what else to say about that one. That was a big mistake.
[2:09] So how long have you been listening to the show again?
[2:14] Since just before the Trump presidency, so 2015-ish.
[2:19] So nine years, right? Eight or nine years, right?
[2:21] About, yeah.
[2:22] Yeah, yeah. So why would you call me now?
[2:27] Um... you know i guess i just thought things were okay as they were i think i fell into complacency, and.
[2:39] No no but you already had a relationship with the kid fail right, yes so i i'm just trying to sort of figure out like why now i mean you've been listening for you know eight years nine years and you've probably heard me say a million times i do prevention not cure.
[2:59] Correct so.
[3:03] I'm just trying to follow this.
[3:06] Yeah okay so i had my oldest before i started listening to you um and that relationship ended very quickly after we had her um and then i started listening to you i thought i was start i was taking the dive into self-knowledge and then probably a couple years ago i think i just kind of stopped listening for whatever reason and with that came a lack of progress Progress.
[3:46] And why do you think you stopped listening? I mean, obviously, it's fine. It's not like, oh, my God, why did you stop listening? But it doesn't seem to have been particularly helpful in your life.
[3:54] No, it certainly wasn't. And I don't think it was intentional.
[3:58] No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Okay. I don't do intent, right? How can I possibly judge intention? I can only judge actions, right?
[4:09] Correct.
[4:10] Okay.
[4:14] Okay well um oh was it like the platforming.
[4:17] Time did you.
[4:17] Yeah it was and i think it i subscribed on subscribe star and it just i know it's just an excuse but it was pretty difficult to find your content um the links always wouldn't work for me sorry.
[4:35] I'm not sure what you mean uh because subscribe so it's not a video platform right so the um the the the podcast feeds didn't change at all right so if you were subscribed to the podcast my deplatforming didn't matter right.
[4:48] Yeah i guess i was trying to find videos so when i would go to subscribe start i hit the link to locals or whatever it be uh it wouldn't i guess it wouldn't connect over i didn't have locals at the time um yeah but the subscribe.
[5:08] Stuff stuff uh also had bit shoot and rumble and brighteon and and uh daily motion and just a wide variety of other video platforms so i'm not trying to nag you or anything like that but i mean we didn't post stuff that didn't work right.
[5:25] No i understand there was other links i guess i just I didn't put the time in. I guess I thought I was done with self-knowledge.
[5:33] Okay. So deplatforming was like, I'll move on.
[5:40] Yeah, I suppose so.
[5:42] Well, no, I don't want to be unfair. In what?
[5:46] Well, I want to say it was more of a subconscious decision that my life was not very... Certain aspects of my life didn't seem like they were very good. I was in a very self-deprecating point, and I just didn't really want to learn about myself anymore at that point.
[6:07] Yeah, I mean... so uh i guess it was a couple of years ago randy platforming that you've left and then what uh when did you come back if you did uh.
[6:19] Probably about a week or two ago is when i subscribed on locals i dropped subscribe star and went to locals.
[6:25] Right oh so you were still subscribing on subscribe star even though you weren't listening is that right correct well i appreciate that i guess i appreciate that of course okay all right so you jumped off the self-knowledge bandwagon things got worse and now you want to jump back on if i understand this uh.
[6:44] Uh yeah i yeah that's accurate.
[6:47] All right i know that sounds naggy i don't mean it that way i just want to get the lay of the land okay all right so what happened with your first relationship well with your first child uh.
[7:01] With my first child uh it was a teen pregnancy it was an accident Accident? Well, accident, I know it's not.
[7:08] Come on, man. Don't make me work this hard right at the beginning. You know the conversation. You're going to have to drop all of this intentional, accidental. Like, if you've come here to make excuses, I mean, like, you've just come to the wrong place. You know that, right? Like, you've just got to own stuff, right?
[7:24] Yep. I chose to have unprotected sex with a woman that I shouldn't have, and definitely one I should not have given children to.
[7:32] So why did you choose to have unprotected sex with her?
[7:43] I don't think I've ever figured that one out. I don't know.
[7:47] Did you want it or did she want it?
[7:51] I think we both did.
[7:53] Okay, well, so you wanted to go raw dogging and you just thought, what the heck?
[8:04] Yeah. Yeah, I did. I didn't think about the consequences of what would happen after that.
[8:11] Okay. So why do you think you didn't think of the consequences? Because, you know, you're literally dicing to make an actual human being, right? That's about the biggest consequence that there is, right?
[8:22] Yeah. Yes, it is.
[8:23] So what do you think was going on?
[8:26] I don't... I... I, I really, I don't know. I, that's one thing I, I still don't understand why I did that. I, I don't know. I would like to say I was lonely at the time.
[8:53] Okay. Lonely doesn't mean make a baby. Lonely means go to a movie or have a chat or a dinner or I guess even sex, but protected sex, right? So lonely is not an answer. and uh do you know why she kept the baby no i mean a lot of women don't.
[9:17] Um i've always been against abortion and once i figured out that she was pregnant i wanted to take on the responsibility of having a child and she did as well ask.
[9:29] Oh so she's against abortion and she, is she, is she, were you religious? Is that one of the reasons you're against abortion?
[9:36] No, I never was growing up. She was, she said she was, and so it was against her faith, but she never told her faith anyway.
[9:48] It was against her faith, but she'll have unprotected sex outside of marriage. Okay, got it. So the faith is a little, little, like trying to get an FM signal from a barge in the middle of the Atlantic. Okay. Dial in, dial out, comes closer, comes further away. All right. Okay, so then did you get married?
[10:07] No, we did not. We separated, I think, eight months after my daughter was born. She ended up getting addicted to drugs.
[10:18] She got addicted to drugs while she was breastfeeding?
[10:21] No, she only breastfed for two months. Two months.
[10:32] All right. Do you want to flesh this one out a little more?
[10:36] Well, at the time, I don't think I realized how essential breastfeeding was, and she certainly didn't. I think the main thing was she wanted to start smoking cigarettes again.
[10:55] Sorry, so she gave up breastfeeding because she wanted to smoke cigarettes?
[11:01] Uh yeah i think so okay go on, um so i after we split up i became a single father and i had my no no why did you why did Did you split up because she.
[11:26] Got addicted to drugs? Like, I assume, obviously, you're talking about more than nicotine here, right?
[11:31] Yeah, no. She kind of just went downhill. Alcohol, methamphetamines, all kinds of stuff.
[11:40] And was she a drug user before she met you?
[11:46] I think she smoked weed before she met me, but that was all.
[11:53] Sorry, you think. How long did you know her before you had unprotected sex with her?
[11:58] Two years. So she definitely smoked weed before I met her. I smoked weed as well. And then I did a few hallucinogenics, which were definitely not good. I've stopped doing all that stuff. But she went back to kind of the smoking weed lifestyle, style and then got involved with seeing people that were not good ended up getting into harder drugs and.
[12:37] Yeah okay and were you living together.
[12:41] We were okay.
[12:43] And so she started smoking cigarettes after After two months, and then she, I guess, over the next half a year, she slid into, like, full-on drug addiction, right?
[12:56] Yes.
[12:57] Okay. So, did you get custody of the child?
[13:01] I did.
[13:03] Sole custody?
[13:05] I did, yes.
[13:06] Okay. And was she involved in your child's life again after that?
[13:13] Uh not for about not until [x] i don't know if i should have said not until my daughter was, a year and a half old uh she got two overnights a week and then i think a year and a half after that, he got week on week off and that's what we've been on ever since then.
[13:40] And how did she get all that did she go through rehab did she clean up.
[13:44] No she told the judge in court that she had smoked we met less than a week and a half before the court date and was awarded two overnights.
[13:56] And why do you think she wanted this?
[14:01] We wanted the overnight.
[14:04] I wanted to be back in touch with her. Is it daughter?
[14:09] Yeah, correct.
[14:10] Why do you think she wanted that?
[14:22] I don't know. She's always kind of used [x] as a status symbol.
[14:26] Can you please stop using your daughter's name?
[14:29] Sorry. She's always used our daughter as kind of a status symbol. Oh, look how great of a mother I am. Look at all this I'm doing. Look at what I bought for my daughter. So that was definitely in play. And then there was probably some aspects of her actually wanting to be a parent. but i would say not very much of that okay.
[14:55] So she didn't have any financial incentive.
[14:59] No okay.
[14:59] So she wasn't getting any child support from you.
[15:01] No and.
[15:04] Why not, um
[15:10] I'm just i mean i don't know i'm.
[15:11] No lawyer i don't know whether you sure or shouldn't i'm just it's it's a bit unusual if she was not well i assume she didn't have some big career or job or.
[15:18] No she didn't i when we one of the first court dates um i declined it was the i actually was the one that would have got child support but i declined to go that route because i knew she didn't have a job sorry she didn't have a job.
[15:37] Why would you get child support oh because she was sole custody.
[15:40] Correct okay got it yeah so i declined that and then i guess just over the year she's never i i still do most i pay for my daughter schooling i pay for most extracurricular stuff so i still financially support most of what she does there's just no court order in place okay.
[16:03] But you don't pay any money to the ex okay got it all right and uh has has your ex is she off drugs now.
[16:16] Yeah okay.
[16:19] Good, and you tell me a little bit about your childhood leading up to this.
[16:29] My childhood yes uh my childhood was a very rough one um when i was I was four years old. I didn't watch it, but I was inside while my mom was outside and she shot herself in the leg. And then my maternal grandmother got custody of me. We moved across country. And my mom killed herself, I think, six months later.
[17:04] And do you know why your mother, I'm obviously very sorry, this is appalling to hear. Do you know why your mother was this way?
[17:14] I would say a lot of it was drug use. I know one thing that definitely affected her heavily was when she was 17, he got pregnant. And actually, it was between my sibling and I that she got pregnant. And my maternal grandmother, she said she made her get an abortion.
[17:42] And.
[17:43] That was something that my mom obviously didn't agree with and probably struggled with.
[17:53] Yeah I don't know I mean, obviously very very tragic I don't know that it makes you shoot yourself in the leg and then kill yourself was your mother very religious?
[18:08] No definitely not lot.
[18:10] So yeah i don't know i mean i it's completely ridiculous for me to judge this like i i don't know your mother i'm just hearing the story for the first time so i'm just telling you my gut sense which which again is completely meaningless i just want to be really really clear on that but i normally i mean i've been doing this for a long time and normally i can get a sense of cause and effect. In this one I can't, which again means nothing, right? It just seems like I mean, if you think like so many women have abortions and they don't become suicidal so I can't quite see the causality there.
[18:49] Yeah, I'm not too sure either. I did read a letter that she wrote shortly before she did that. She blamed her boyfriend at the time for being abusive. He was abused through almost every one of her relationships. And again, that's...
[19:07] Oh, so like she blamed her mother for making her get an abortion. She blamed her boyfriend for being abusive. Is that right?
[19:13] Yeah, I would say in my maternal side, there's been a lot of lack of accountability.
[19:19] Right. Right. Sorry, go on.
[19:25] No, that was the point I was trying to make.
[19:30] Okay. And how old were you when your mother shot herself in the leg? And then how old were you when your mother killed herself?
[19:36] I was four when she shot herself, and I was five when she killed herself.
[19:41] Okay. Okay. And did the boyfriend who was around, was the boyfriend living with you? Was that guy around?
[19:54] I don't think so. He had his own house. My mom had her own house. So I don't think he was around me a whole lot.
[20:06] And where did you go after your mother killed herself?
[20:10] With my maternal grandmother.
[20:13] Oh, God, the woman who raised your mother.
[20:15] Correct.
[20:16] All right. You know, it's a funny, it's a funny modern thing. People say correct rather than yes. Do you know, is that a thing? Because I've just had a whole bunch of these conversations lately where people, I'm asking a question and I get this kind of half robotic correct. As if it's some sort of court case or something as opposed to like, yeah.
[20:34] Yeah uh well i've i say it because i saw a video that said it's i don't know if it's a the other person in will perceive it in a different sense than saying yes in a better sense than saying yes really if yeah i i don't know if that's i'm just that's why i started saying no it's.
[20:56] Fine it's not a practice it's it's a conversational tick that i'm not really used to but it seems to be maybe that video is very popular i don't know that's fine i don't i don't particularly mind i just uh i feel like i'm cross-examining a hostile witness.
[21:08] Sorry no.
[21:09] That's fine that's fine okay so you went with your maternal grandmother at five and how did that go.
[21:19] Um not very well she obviously was dealing with the death of her daughter um very distant i would say that i was emotionally neglected growing up, and and have not sure, um i guess nobody played with you.
[21:51] Nobody chatted with you was she married.
[21:52] No she was not married okay.
[21:55] And where was her her husband or the mother sorry the father of your mother.
[22:07] Uh he they split up long before i was born and he lived in a different state okay.
[22:14] Got it, got it and and you had no uh contact with your father right.
[22:22] No my father passed away when i was very young drugs.
[22:27] Or violence or something like that.
[22:29] Um i definitely would say drugs had a part in it um he was in a police chase and jumped out of his vehicle ended up injuring himself and died yeah right.
[22:44] Okay and so how did things play out i mean you went to school and and how did things go there.
[22:53] Yeah i went to school um i started babys or daycare before preschool and preschool, and then we moved when i was in third grade, and by My eighth grade was another pretty bad year for me. Again, my paternal grandmother's other child, her son, was in and out of prison most of his life. We moved to go be with him, and then he went back to prison. and in 8th grade when I was in 8th grade he was murdered in prison, but I he was in a hospital for a while and I went with my grandmother to go see him before he passed away, and inevitably ended up watching him die oh.
[24:08] Like you were in hospital when he died correct yes right okay and were you close to him at all before he went to prison or did you know him much at all.
[24:17] Uh i knew him for a few months so i wasn't particularly close with him.
[24:21] Okay got it dude you have you know of course have any idea why he was killed in prison wasn't um.
[24:29] I know i know it was some some gang violence.
[24:33] Okay got it got it and what's your ethnic background uh caucasian white okay so this is all very very sad and how old were you when your uncle died uh 13 okay and um how how were you doing in school and and social life and and all that kind of stuff i assume i mean that must have been pretty tough yeah.
[25:04] I was doing really good in school up until that point and in that point i think uh i fell into kind of a depression or kind of a bad spot. I started smoking weed when I was in eighth grade. Um, and that definitely led to a lot of negative things that have happened in my life.
[25:31] And how did you get the weed in the 8th grade?
[25:38] It was everywhere.
[25:40] Well, no, I know that. But it's not cheap, right? I mean, it's not given to you for nothing.
[25:45] No, I had a, you could call it a job. I watered plants for a family member for $20 a week. And that's what I had money with.
[25:57] Oh, okay. Got it. All right. okay and then what.
[26:09] Um I continued to do poorly in schooling and probably socially into high school and I think it was yeah my sophomore years when I met my ex and so I, uh yeah I was smoking a lot of weed doing a lot of stupid things.
[26:41] Right, and is there anything that you wanted to I can keep asking questions or.
[26:56] Well I'll get the last part of what I would say would be my trauma I wasn't quite It wasn't childhood trauma. When I, a year after I graduated high school, my brother, my only other sibling, my brother, he was in prison in and out too. He kind of followed my uncle's footsteps.
[27:22] So your mother's other brother.
[27:27] No, my brother.
[27:29] Sorry. And you have one sibling, is that right?
[27:32] Yes.
[27:33] Okay.
[27:34] Yeah, my brother pretty much followed my uncle's exact footsteps and ended up dying from injuries related or caused in prison as well.
[27:45] Oh, gosh. And what was he in prison for?
[27:49] He was in prison for felony theft. I think it was a laptop, so it was considered a felony theft.
[27:55] And how old was he?
[27:59] He was 23.
[28:01] Right. And he was older, is that right?
[28:07] Yes.
[28:08] Okay, got it. Very sad. Very sad. I'm obviously incredibly sorry for all of this. It's, I mean, it's just, it's heartbreaking, of course, right? And what a, I mean, what a monster your grandmother must have been.
[28:27] Yeah i i appreciate it oh and that's why when i first found you i found you through kind of the political stuff and then delved into the self-knowledge stuff it was really a bastion of wealth that i found you right.
[28:46] So what you said that you you got uh pretty pretty it was pretty bad for you when your your brother died right.
[28:56] Yes always kill yeah that yes and yeah that was what was that for you because.
[29:04] I don't i didn't get a sense of of how it was for you and your brother with your brother growing up were you guys close or.
[29:13] Um we weren't particularly close in childhood but once i reached kind of my teen years we got pretty close. And then I think we kind of drifted further apart as he obviously went into the footsteps of going to prison and all that stuff. But there was a few years where we definitely got close.
[29:41] You mean when you were much younger?
[29:44] When I was in my teen years, yeah.
[29:46] Oh, your teen years. is okay got it so what did it mean for you with regards to your your brother i mean what was it what was in your mind when he died what did that was that like you're doomed or was there something else no.
[30:00] It wasn't like i was doomed it was just i guess that's when i started i felt truly alone, like no i had nobody in my life that knew what i had gone through in my life, to kind of share that with.
[30:21] Right okay.
[30:28] And yeah, I took his death very hard.
[30:34] So, it was, I'm still trying to understand, and obviously I'm not saying you shouldn't have been taking it hard. Of course, you should have, right? I mean, it's a brutal thing to have happen. But what do you think was the meaning behind what was so tough about it for you?
[30:52] I think it was, I don't know if it's quite a meaning, but My brother was probably the only other person that ever experienced kind of the same stuff I did when we were growing up, at least that I knew of. So it was almost, it was a lack of connection with anyone, really. I don't know if that makes sense.
[31:23] Not quite. So lack of connection, there was nobody then who'd known your childhood or anything like that, is that right?
[31:30] Yeah. Okay.
[31:33] Got it. All right. And how was your social life when you were a teen?
[31:52] Um, I... Kind of a tricky question, because I feel like I had a decent social life, but everyone that I was socializing with was kind of doing the same thing I was. Drug use and people from injured backgrounds. So there was no deep connection anywhere. There were no real friendships, kind of just, oh, let's go smoke weed together. Let's go be stupid together.
[32:24] Right okay and then was the woman you got pregnant was she in this social circle yeah, okay and but you knew her for i think you said two years a.
[32:41] Year and a half or two somewhere in there yeah.
[32:43] And were you sexually active or what portion of that time were you sexually active.
[32:48] All of it.
[32:49] Oh okay okay so you were together for quite some time were you boyfriend girlfriend or was it just kind of yeah vicinity.
[32:57] No we were we were exclusive.
[32:58] Okay and was it just the one time that you had unprotected sex or was it more common.
[33:09] Um there were a few times but most of the time we would use protection.
[33:14] Okay got it all right, Okay. And so, sorry, remind me, how old were you when you became a dad?
[33:25] I was 19.
[33:27] 19, okay. And she's your age, more or less?
[33:31] Yeah.
[33:31] Okay.
[33:32] Yeah.
[33:33] And so, then how old were you when you met your current wife?
[33:40] 20, almost 21.
[33:42] Almost 21, okay. And where did you meet her?
[33:47] We worked at the same place. okay.
[33:50] So she meets you and tell me a little bit about how you guys got together.
[33:55] Uh we met and then we just kind of maintained a friendly work friendship uh and, at one point i tried to i guess make the moves but she was in a relationship so So I backed off and then I think a few months, probably six months later, she ended up becoming single, leaving the guy she was with. And we started hanging out. And then a few months later, we decided to start dating.
[34:41] Okay. And what was it that attracted you to each other, do you think? um.
[34:50] Sexual appeal.
[34:53] Right. Okay.
[34:57] Yeah, I'll be honest there. It was probably sexual appeal.
[35:00] Right. Okay. And that's from her side for you. Sorry, that's from your side. For her, was it the same thing?
[35:10] Yeah, I think it was mutual. Okay.
[35:12] Got it. And I assume that her background is a mess. Yes.
[35:22] Um it's not great it's not good she her parents divorced when she was pretty young i want to say seven and her mother was very emotionally abusive or no i should say verbally abusive her father was very emotionally abusive, Okay.
[35:51] And did she, did she have any concerns about you and your ex and all of this sort of stuff?
[36:06] I'm sure she did. She didn't really convey them to me though.
[36:14] Okay. And so how long have you guys been together?
[36:20] Seven years. Married for four.
[36:23] Okay. And you have two children with her, is that right?
[36:28] Yes.
[36:30] Okay. And if you can tell me a little bit about what you think might have gone wrong.
[36:39] Yeah. I will start off vague and get a little more detailed. I have not been a very good husband to her. I have been very emotionally distant. I think we haven't connected for quite a long time. but i think more specifically i have been very, um critical of her to the point of condescension many many times, she told me the other day that she is scared of me now and And an example of that is she flinches when I walk behind her.
[37:38] I think the past few years especially, there's been a very heavy drift apart and lack of communication on both of our parts. A lack of any real connection as well. And that's probably mostly on me. I self-medicated for so long, and then I quit. Oh, you started it back? Yeah, correct. Okay. I quit, started it back up again, and then I quit. And I've been sober for a while now. I went through a pretty heavy stint of alcoholism too, which was definitely a strain on our relationship. I was very angry. Okay.
[38:29] And sorry when.
[38:30] Were you.
[38:31] And doing the drugs and alcohol.
[38:36] I stopped smoking weed when i was 21 and then i started back up when i was i started on and off a few different times um the alcohol was 2019 i think there was a almost a full year of just very excessive drinking. I was on a shift at work that left me alone a lot, so I would just self-medicate with alcohol. And I was very aggressive during that time, and constantly irritated and agitated. And since 2021, I haven't drank very much. And I've completely cut out any marijuana use. But I think now I medicate with dissociating. I play a lot of video games, which in moderation are okay, but I think I've taken to excess.
[39:48] Success and that the video games definitely left me kind of not even being in the relationship or being around for my kids, but again i just i don't know i didn't really think it was a an issue until you kind of take a step back and look at it and say what am i doing okay.
[40:19] So it's from before your kids were born until a couple years ago right.
[40:27] Yeah and.
[40:29] How old are your kids now.
[40:29] My oldest is eight i have a four-year-old and a three-year-old.
[40:36] Okay, so three kids, right? Okay.
[40:38] Yes.
[40:40] So, when you said it was the last couple of years you've been kind of dissociated and so on, would you say that's when the relationship began to really deteriorate?
[40:48] Yeah, I would say that's true. Okay.
[40:50] So, you don't particularly like your wife? Is that why you don't enjoy spending time with her?
[40:58] No, I really do enjoy spending time with her. I know...
[41:04] Again, I can only judge actions, not intentions.
[41:06] Yeah. No, I know. Um... I don't. I think. I'd like to say I do enjoy spending time with her, but I'd rather. Just not. I'd rather dissociate and not. Be present.
[41:34] Okay. So what's tough about being present? And I don't mean this like, well, what on earth could be tough? I mean, I get it's a tough thing to do, but what's what's tough for you about being present?
[41:45] Um i think the the stresses of life you know that's stupidly big uh money is always kind of an issue money has always been kind of an issue again i think i've seen the, lack of a deep connection between us so i've just been kind of kicking the can down the road and saying, oh, I'll take care of it later, I'll take care of it later.
[42:12] Sorry, take care of what?
[42:14] Being a present husband.
[42:16] I'm not sure what that means, being a present husband. I don't know what that means.
[42:26] I suppose I mean just... I don't know. I guess I don't know how else to put it but that because I certainly haven't been involved in the marriage. I haven't...
[42:36] Sorry, I don't know what any of this means. Haven't been involved in the boat, is that me?
[42:41] I don't spend time with my wife.
[42:45] Okay, you don't spend time with your wife, and not much with your kids, right?
[42:49] More with my kids than my wife, for sure. But not as much as I should. No, she didn't until about a month ago.
[43:01] So how do you spend time with your kids without your wife if she's home?
[43:06] I she's got she'll take care of household stuff and i'll take the kids outside or i'll play games with the kids um we do play board games every once in a while and stuff like that yeah.
[43:20] I mean talking about the stuff that's not working right.
[43:22] Yeah okay.
[43:27] So what do you not enjoy about spending time with your wife.
[43:34] Um... I don't know. I've never really thought of that.
[43:47] I mean, if you're doing things other than spending time with your wife, or if you prefer to spend time with your children than your wife, I mean, obviously that is undermining the marriage, right?
[43:58] Yeah.
[43:58] Because the kids are a product of your relationship with your wife. And if the kids take precedence over your relationship with your wife, then you're kind of hollowing out the marriage, right?
[44:07] Yes.
[44:08] Okay. So when did you first start to not enjoy spending time with your wife? i mean assume at the beginning right you guys got together you you had kids you got married i think you had did it in that order right.
[44:25] Yeah okay so well we had one kid yeah i got married.
[44:30] And then had more kids so i mean was it just sexual attraction was was there anything that you in particular liked about her other than companionship and sexual access.
[44:41] Yeah we would sit down and watch some of your store your call-in shows or just some of your videos and you know we would have deep philosophical discussions and kind of the affairs of the world discussions what's geopolitics stuff like that um and that that was, that was a lot of fun i love talking to her about that kind of stuff and maybe it's like we just kind of stopped talking about that kind of stuff we stopped having any sort of deep philosophical, talks.
[45:27] And sorry when was that.
[45:32] Um probably Probably two or three years ago.
[45:37] Okay. I think that changed.
[45:45] I don't know.
[45:48] Well, you do, right? Because you made the decision to spend less time with her. Was there a conflict? Was there a problem? I mean, I know that having a bunch of kids can end up with people being kind of distracted, but there had to be some reason why you stopped talking to her. I mean, do you know the most common reason why we stop talking to people?
[46:12] Why?
[46:13] Resentment. There's something about the situation that we resent.
[46:17] Yeah, I was going to bring that up. Yeah, I was going to bring that up. I was skimming through. I haven't read the full thing. I really need to. I was skimming through practical. I'm sorry. Your relationship book.
[46:31] Oh, yeah. Real-time relationships.
[46:32] Real-time relationships. I was skimming through that, and I was reading some of that stuff today.
[46:36] and yeah, I saw a lot of myself and probably both of us in a lot of the negative examples of what happens.
[46:49] Okay, so that's nice. But what is it that you resented with regards to your wife, if that's what it was?
[46:59] I think I resented a lot of, the... I guess our parenting styles. We both don't hit our kids, but I would try to set rules for just a silly example. Like, oh, the girls are old enough. They're going to sleep in their own bed now. now and time and time again i would wake up in the middle of the night and she'd be sleeping in their bed as well um sorry.
[47:40] Why did the girls have to sleep alone i.
[47:43] Just figured like it was setting up healthy habits sorry.
[47:48] But on what theory i'm not disagreeing with you i'm just curious what your theory was.
[47:56] I've heard a lot of people say, oh, you know, I think my wife did it to you. I slept with my mom until I was eight years old. And I just don't think that sets up a healthy habit for sleeping.
[48:13] Sorry, and what age were your kids when you didn't want them to sleep with their mother?
[48:18] I think about two.
[48:21] Okay.
[48:21] One of my kids when she was three, and then the younger one when she was two.
[48:27] Okay, and I assume that you read up on this. I don't know particularly the theory behind it, but I assume that you read up on it, and it was the right thing to do. Is that right?
[48:38] Yeah, as far as I could tell, that was the right thing to do.
[48:42] Sorry, what do you mean.
[48:43] As far as you could tell? Yeah, I read some articles. co-parenting or co-sleeping until a certain age is fine, but then after that you should stop co-sleeping. It builds negative health, or negative sleep schedule, not schedules, but negative sleep habits.
[49:09] Okay, yeah, I'm fine with that. And did your wife agree with you on this?
[49:17] She said she did, but I guess action show different and that kind of I don't know her I felt like a lot.
[49:27] Sorry I just want to make sure I understand so she did um, she did agree with you that the children should stop sleeping with you sorry with her or both of you yeah okay and of course you know it's a little tougher to sleep with kids in the bed and all of that so I'm obviously fine with that, So, I mean, not that it matters that I'm fine with that. I'm kind of with you there. Okay, so she said that she agreed with you that the kids should not sleep in your marriage bed.
[50:08] I, you know, now I think back and I think I probably just criticized and criticized, you know, oh, you need to, or maybe even nagging is the right word. Oh, you need to stop doing that. You need to stop doing that. So maybe she didn't agree and I just wanted to force her to agree like, hey, you need to stop doing that. Not good. Let's stop doing that.
[50:31] But you would share the information that you'd said, look, this is bad for the kids. It's not great for their sleeping habits and so on, right? yeah did you share the data with her i.
[50:43] Probably didn't know.
[50:44] Okay so you you had the data you had good arguments behind this and you just kind of nagged and half bullied her into trying to change yeah i don't want to put words in your mouth if that's not an accurate way of describing.
[51:05] No i'd say that's probably pretty accurate.
[51:07] Okay so was that a habit of yours that when you disagreed with your wife you would just sort of nag and half bully her to change or would you try and reason with her i.
[51:16] Would try to reason um i would you know say oh look at this i read look at this i read so i would definitely try to reason the first couple times and then once it you know So, nothing changed. I would just say, okay, well, now I'm going to start nagging.
[51:36] Okay. So, why do you think you didn't have credibility with your wife? If you said, I think we need to stop co-sleeping with the kids, then why wouldn't she say, oh, tell me more, or that's interesting, or let me read the articles, or whatever, right? I mean, why do you think that she didn't want to listen to you or didn't really respect what you were saying? I'm not saying that she should agree with you, but, you know, at least be curious and open to your arguments.
[52:12] I don't know why she would. I don't know. Sorry, my thoughts are getting a little jumbled up.
[52:23] Okay, well, let's go back. Were there times before you had the kids or earlier on in the relationship or when your kids were very young or your first when your kids were very young? Were there times when she did listen to what you were saying and did accept, at least, that you probably had a valid perspective and it was worth looking at?
[52:45] Yeah, I would say definitely. Especially when our firstborn was born, because I had all the experience of already having an infant child. child so i think that probably kind of swayed her opinion towards oh okay yeah he knows what he's talking about.
[53:07] Right okay so when did that change just sometime between your firstborn and then later on yeah.
[53:18] Probably around probably when my firstborn was about two.
[53:24] Okay got it and again you don't really know why right no okay um well i don't know then if you don't know that no yeah okay so why is she scared of you um.
[53:49] I guess i'm.
[53:50] Okay don't guess don't guess no okay because i guess this guess is a waste of time you I just will say nothing, right? Because I can't do anything with, I guess.
[53:58] Yes.
[54:00] If you take your car to get fixed and say, well, what are the problems? Well, I don't know, I guess this, it's like, well, then they can't do anything.
[54:08] Yeah. I have been very similar to her father, and I've been emotionally and definitely, verbally abusive to her. I... I don't know why I got into the habit of, you know, smacking her butt. So I'm smacking her butt.
[54:34] Uh-huh.
[54:37] Um, you know, I would kind of do that constantly and that's, you know, I, I get, there's a playful kind of smack, but I guess I was, I, sorry, we'll stop saying, I guess I was definitely doing it too hard to a point of pain for her.
[54:55] Oh, okay.
[54:59] And I, a couple of times i would come up behind her and kind of feign in a triangle arm or triangle choke on her i would never put any pressure on, but and i thought that was just kind of a fun funny thing to do but you know i never really looked at it from her perspective of, I'm trying to control her and force her to do whatever it is I want in that moment. And it was never during an argument, but I still, never considered her perspective of... I never even considered why I was doing it. It just was something I did, and I guess... I'm sorry. It was probably, built-up resentment trying to fame is a funny joke or something i don't i don't know why i would do that.
[56:13] Sorry i'm not quite sure what is it is a triangle hold where you've got her in the crook of your elbow yeah okay so you would come up and i mean i i get you weren't trying to choke her but you would put her in a chokehold. Is that right?
[56:34] Yeah.
[56:36] Does that seem odd to you, like looking back at that?
[56:40] Yeah, of course.
[56:41] And there was aggression behind it?
[56:45] Yeah, I think so.
[56:47] Sorry, I can't do anything. Yes, there was. Listen, if you don't want to have a direct conversation, if we want to do all this hedging, then I'm not sure how to proceed. Because we just keep doing the same thing. Like, you're going to be straight with me and direct with me or you're going to play this fog game in which case i really don't know what we're supposed to talk about and i'm not trying to say i'm not trying to make you give any absolutes you're not comfortable with or that aren't true but i just feel like we're just i'm gonna we're gonna spend half the time with me saying well you know this vague stuff doesn't help yeah.
[57:18] I i understand that i i do that because i i'm just ashamed of my actions and i don't want to actually say that i've done these things.
[57:27] No no i understand that and i'm not saying this is easy i i completely understand that uh so um i i leave it to your i leave it to your decision so.
[57:38] Yes yes there was aggression behind it built up.
[57:42] Okay pent.
[57:42] Up anger and aggression.
[57:43] And what were you angry about was it that she wasn't listening to you about bedtime.
[57:52] Not just bedtime, but probably a lot of different things. I feel like I've never really been... Well, not never. I feel like I haven't been listened to in the relationship regarding kids or even household stuff in quite a long time. What do you mean by household stuff? Just small, stupid stuff. like the stuff needs to be picked up when we're done with it dishes you know we we need to when we're done with a dish let's just clean it and put it away the cupboards need to be closed when they're when we're not actively getting something out of them hit my head on a couple cupboards.
[58:37] Yeah i'm sorry why does i mean yeah you can bump your head on cupboards but that's also partly on you to you know look where you're going right so why why is this stuff important for you i'm not saying it's not important i'm just curious why it's important for you to the point where you put your wife half in a chokehold right i mean that that's that's quite important right yeah.
[58:59] No i, it shouldn't be important.
[59:05] No no no please stop hedging just give me answers sorry for god's sakes just why is it so important to you we shouldn't i i'm mortal i'm i'm 57 years old for god's sakes i only have a certain amount of time left on this planet if you're going to answer the questions answer the questions if you're not let's not why is it so important to you not whether it should or shouldn't be just why is it i'm not disagreeing with you about the importance i'm just curious why it's important to you because here's the funny thing right you say oh Stef my My wife doesn't listen to me. I'm trying my best to listen to you, brother. And you're making it really hard.
[59:41] Okay.
[59:42] You say you want to be listened to. I'm listening. I really am. I'm giving you what you want. I'm listening. Okay, so, why is it important to you that the cupboards are closed or the dishes are put away in a certain time or what? I mean, clearly it's not worth blowing up the marriage over, right?
[1:00:05] No, I feel you've validated over.
[1:00:07] Why is it so important to be imperiling your marriage and making your wife frightened of you because you're putting her in half chokeholds? Why is it that important? I guess that's my question.
[1:00:21] I guess because I want to be in control. And not, I guess, I want to be in control.
[1:00:25] In control of your wife?
[1:00:28] Of the relationship, of the family.
[1:00:33] Okay, so that just begs the question, why do you want to be in control?
[1:00:40] Because i was never in control of my childhood or my life until, i decided to take control okay.
[1:00:52] And what do you mean when you said you decided to take control what did that look like and what happened.
[1:00:56] Well it was probably when i'm sorry that was when i I started listening to you and actually took control of myself, my self-knowledge, tried to better myself, tried to understand and recognize my past traumas, why I did certain things.
[1:01:21] God, that's a load of nonsense. I'm so sorry. I really do apologize.
[1:01:27] No, you're fine.
[1:01:27] But that is, Stef, if there's one thing I got from your show, it's the importance of controlling and bullying people and putting them in chokeholds. That's what I really got from your show and your book. Come on. I mean, you've got to be kidding me, right?
[1:01:47] No, I don't know why it was so important.
[1:01:49] Okay, yeah, I just like, let's not go down the road if this has anything to do with anything I've ever said, because what I'm about, I'm about honesty, reason.
[1:01:56] I didn't mean it like that.
[1:01:58] Well, no, no. And I'm not taking offense at it at all. I'm not taking offense at it at all. I'm just, like, that doesn't make sense. You know, I was really quite surprised when I said, well, you know, why were you physically aggressive with your wife and half bullying her and half putting her in a chokehold and making her frightened of you? And it's like, well, Stef, I got that from you. I'm like, I don't think you did.
[1:02:26] No, I definitely didn't.
[1:02:28] Okay, so that's fine, and let's try that again.
[1:02:48] I... I don't know. I'm missing something. I just really...
[1:02:55] Okay, what happens when things aren't done in this way? So what happened when you were a kid, right? When you were a kid, what happened when things didn't go this way?
[1:03:24] I was an actor and sometimes physically abused, Spain.
[1:03:32] Right. Okay. So when you were a kid, either with your mother or with your grandmother, mother then if you didn't do things in the right way you would be physically attacked, yeah okay so then when your wife didn't do things in quote the right way you felt sort of great terror anxiety and and and horror right, okay so wouldn't that be the case isn't that sort of what what what that was us yeah.
[1:04:09] I would say it was that.
[1:04:11] Okay so it was because you feared attack or anxiety was occurring because what your wife was doing would have triggered attacks against you as a child, and so you had to control her behavior because through controlling her behavior you were trying Trying to control your own terror of prior attacks as a child. I'm sort of giving you a rough sketch. I guess I'm curious if that's something, if it's something along those lines.
[1:04:45] It definitely sounds right. I would, to put it another way, it was kind of my inner mother and grandmother coming out.
[1:04:54] Well, you were trying to protect her in a way. Okay. Like you were trying to protect your wife, right?
[1:05:04] Yeah, I see. Yeah. Okay.
[1:05:09] Okay, so... is this is this news to you.
[1:05:19] Uh that was yeah all.
[1:05:22] Right so, what's your relationship um like with your grandmother.
[1:05:33] Um it, not very good it's better than it used to be i did have a talk with her about her lack of accountability and her kind of treating us kids poorly when we were growing up. I kind of had a talk of defooing. I did for a while there. And then she's changed quite a bit since then, probably not on a deep level, but at least she doesn't nag at me. She doesn't, she treats me well. But there's no, no deep connection there still.
[1:06:27] Okay. So, sorry, go ahead.
[1:06:31] No, go ahead.
[1:06:33] So when did you have the conversation with her?
[1:06:38] Three years ago now three or four okay.
[1:06:42] And so she did apologize or sort of how did that go.
[1:06:50] Yeah she tried to kind of play the oh well i did the best i could and i said no you did not, um she played that card and i i doubled down i said no you did not you did this this this this, you know you did drugs for all these years with your kids and then you drank for however many oh yeah.
[1:07:17] Gosh, then the hits.
[1:07:20] I guess that's not too shocking.
[1:07:22] Right but the hits just keep.
[1:07:23] On coming she married my grandpa because he was her coke dealer.
[1:07:28] Oh gosh okay.
[1:07:34] And And eventually, after quite a while of me trying to get my points across of what you did was unacceptable, she finally did apologize. And again, there's no deep connection between us, but we do talk and there's no nagging, no anything like that anymore.
[1:08:04] Okay. So, your grandmother married or had children with her coke dealer, right?
[1:08:11] Yeah.
[1:08:12] And she did drugs with her children, one of whom your mother shot herself in the leg and then killed herself, and then another who was your uncle was murdered in prison, is that right?
[1:08:27] Yeah.
[1:08:28] Okay. So, she kind of destroyed her children, right?
[1:08:36] She did.
[1:08:37] Okay. I mean, I don't want to say things that are unfair, so if I've got anything wrong about that...
[1:08:40] No, she did.
[1:08:41] Okay. So, she destroyed your childhood, destroyed her children, and was somewhat abusive to you as a kid? I mean, do I have that right?
[1:08:52] Yeah, mostly neglectful, but abusive, for sure. and.
[1:08:55] In what way was she abusive and i'm not disagreeing with you i'm just wanting to make sure i understand.
[1:08:59] Um she was the main one that was physically abusive um up until actually i was i think i was, 13 and i finally i was well.
[1:09:14] You just got bigger.
[1:09:15] Right so well exactly no i grabbed her hand and i said you're never going to touch me again and she didn't okay so So.
[1:09:23] Do you believe in evil?
[1:09:28] Yes. Okay.
[1:09:30] Was she evil?
[1:09:33] Yes.
[1:09:34] Okay. And she's never taken ownership of it? She's never made restitution? She's never, as far as I understand it, and again, tell me if I'm incorrect about any of this, but that's not really happened, has it?
[1:09:51] No, not really. like she has started to kind of take accountability for something like we'll mention she'll say she did it as best as she can and this was a while ago granted she would say that and i said actually you know you married your coke dealer that's not doing the best you can you chose to have children with this person who was physically abusive to you and children that's and she would end up agreeing with that. But I think he can only to a point before she realizes that she's responsible for her children's death. Deaths? Yeah. I don't think she can ever really cross that line or else... I don't know what else.
[1:10:42] Okay. So what's the benefit of having her? Is she around your kids at all?
[1:10:50] Yeah.
[1:10:52] Okay. Does she take care of your kids at all?
[1:10:55] No. They'll go out. They'll hang out with her for a couple hours, but that's it, really.
[1:11:00] Well, no, she takes care of your kids then, doesn't she?
[1:11:05] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, she does.
[1:11:07] Okay. And what do you think of that? Does that mean she's an unrepentant child abuser who married a Coke dealer and was directly or indirectly responsible for the deaths of two children?
[1:11:24] Yeah, I don't think that's good.
[1:11:26] So what's going on?
[1:11:29] Uh to be a hundred percent frank i, live in her house not when i was 21 she, bought a house i make like 80 of the payments payment on it so you and her house no no i live in the house and she lives in essentially a grandmother's house out back her mother-in-law's house out back.
[1:12:04] Sorry i just want to make sure i understand so she's living in a house with you but you're paying 80 of the bills or is that right she.
[1:12:14] Doesn't live in the house okay she lives on on the property, um, and I, I pay all the household bills and everything. She, she does pay, uh, some of it though.
[1:12:28] Okay. Um, how long has this arrangement been going on?
[1:12:33] Um, five years.
[1:12:35] And why has this arrangement be going on?
[1:12:43] I. I think it's kind of a cop-out, but I can't afford to move anywhere else.
[1:12:53] Really?
[1:12:53] Can't afford.
[1:12:54] Can you afford to get divorced?
[1:12:57] No.
[1:13:00] So, the woman, I don't know, do you consider your grandmother responsible, at least in part, for your mother's death?
[1:13:10] Yes.
[1:13:11] Okay. So, the woman who, is it fair to say, and it's your life, right? So I don't want to say anything out of turn. Is it fair to say she half-killed your mother?
[1:13:22] Yes. Okay.
[1:13:26] So the woman who half-killed your mother and then abused you, you're living with her because of a bit of money?
[1:13:46] Yeah, I guess so. Yeah. Yeah.
[1:13:52] All right. I mean, I have no idea what to say about that. I have a fucking clue what to say about that. I mean, this woman's dangerous to children, and you leave your children with her.
[1:14:13] You're absolutely correct.
[1:14:17] Well no wonder she's triggering you with your wife you're literally trying to protect your wife from the woman who attacked you for not doing things right so you attack your wife for not doing things right, you're around a woman who raised criminals, suicide victims, people murdered in prison and you're putting a choke hold, half a choke hold on your wife, this isn't a mystery is it?
[1:14:39] No not when you say it like that what are.
[1:14:41] You doing man? I don't understand that. Tell me what you're feeling. You hear what I'm saying, right?
[1:14:54] Yeah, no, I hear you.
[1:14:57] What are you feeling at the moment?
[1:15:04] Um, I feel angry at myself that I've let this happen so.
[1:15:13] Yeah help me understand.
[1:15:13] You're incredibly stupid like.
[1:15:16] I mean i mean you listen to me right.
[1:15:19] Yeah i don't know i i don't know how i justified certain things in my own head but how.
[1:15:33] Does this come to be, how did this come to be.
[1:15:58] How did what exactly come to be?
[1:15:59] This whole situation, you're living with your grandmother.
[1:16:17] Do you want to know my justification for it?
[1:16:20] I just want to know, how did this come about? You've been married for how long?
[1:16:28] Four years.
[1:16:29] Okay. So you move in with your grandmother when you're still dating the woman who becomes your wife. You move in with your grandmother with your first child, right? And your wife, the woman who becomes your wife, knows all about your history, I assume, knows all about your history with your grandmother, right?
[1:17:01] Yeah if she didn't at first we i think she learned about it fairly quickly.
[1:17:06] Well you were with her for a year or two by the time you moved in do i have that right yeah okay so i assume you've been listening to me for a long time so i assume that you told you said you had these deep conversations with your girlfriend and so on so i assume that you talk about your history right yeah.
[1:17:22] Yeah we did Okay.
[1:17:26] So how does this come about? How do you move in?
[1:17:36] When... when i was eight when i when i turned 21 i was kicked out of, my grandmother's ex-husband's house not my maternal grandfather but a different marriage, we had lived there while i was growing while i was in high school and i was kicked out of that house when I was 21 and my grandma took the opportunity, I say that loosely, to, buy this house because I didn't have any credit. I didn't have anything like that and have any down payment. She bought the house as a first-time homeowner, quote-unquote, for me and the kids. The kid at the time.
[1:18:41] And why were you kicked out of your step-grandfather's house?
[1:18:52] He was... He considered me to be very disrespectful and... a number of other words. He... Thought I was stupid for getting a girl pregnant when I was so young, which that's a, yeah, I was, but, um, he didn't like that. I was disrespectful to his house and whatnot. I was nagged a lot by him as well.
[1:19:35] I'm sorry. You were what?
[1:19:36] I was nagged at him from him by him a lot as well. and he said, okay, you're 21, I was getting, I had a two or three year old daughter at the time it's time to go live on your own. I don't know if that answered your question or not.
[1:20:05] Okay, I think I've got it. I think I've got it. Alright. Okay, so you end up getting involved in this living situation with your grandmother, right?
[1:20:18] Yeah. Okay.
[1:20:20] And what did your girlfriend think about this?
[1:20:33] I don't know that we really talked about it a whole lot. I know it was a couple, I think it was a year after we moved into this house that I had the big falling out with my grandma. It was shortly before that that I started talking to my wife about that, about everything. I go, I think I'm going to not see my grandma anymore. But at that time, I'm already in the house. so i don't i don't know what she thought about it.
[1:21:09] You don't know okay so she didn't have any particular opinions about it.
[1:21:14] No she definitely wasn't down the no but.
[1:21:18] I mean you guys did watch my shows and all that together so i mean you couldn't have been completely ignorant of some of the risks in this approach Do I have that right?
[1:21:30] Yeah, that's right.
[1:21:32] Okay. So you didn't really talk that much about the more important stuff?
[1:21:41] No.
[1:21:42] And again, I'm not trying to make you feel bad. I'm just trying to understand, right?
[1:21:47] Okay.
[1:21:48] So then you've spent the last five years subjecting yourself to this, right?
[1:21:56] Yeah.
[1:22:02] And do you think that has an effect on your marriage?
[1:22:08] Of course.
[1:22:10] Okay. And what effect do you think it's had?
[1:22:19] I think it's had a pretty big negative effect i think it's had, an effect on how i deal with my wife obviously and how i perceive my wife i guess i guess how i perceive my wife, um Or maybe not how I perceive her, but how I treat her, for sure. Definitely hasn't been a good experience.
[1:23:01] Do you think it's possible to be the leader of your family in any area when you are in this kind of situation? no okay what do you think happens to your level of respect from your wife, when she sees you in a sense bowing down towards the woman who abused you.
[1:23:34] Yeah it definitely decreases a lot i.
[1:23:37] Think that could happen right Yeah. Okay. So, why? Why are you doing this? I mean, I get that there's some... I mean, is it something that your grandmother wants?
[1:23:53] Yeah.
[1:23:55] Okay, and what does she like about it?
[1:23:58] About the living situation?
[1:24:00] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[1:24:02] That she gets to see her great-grandchildren.
[1:24:05] Okay. Okay. And so she wants it, and I suppose that you go with what she wants, right? Because what happens if you say no?
[1:24:29] Yeah, I get attacked.
[1:24:33] Okay. So you do what she wants, to some degree, out of fear. Is that right?
[1:24:38] Yeah.
[1:24:39] Okay. And so you're pleasing her because she's scary. Listen, I understand that. I mean, I'm not, I'm not the big critic of this. I just, I just want to make sure again, that I sort of understand, right?
[1:24:57] Yeah, I would say that's true. There might be, well, I would say a while ago, there was definitely not, not anytime recently, But when I was growing up, there was definitely a white knight complex that I was trying to help my grandma with all the things she was dealing with, with the deaths of her children and everything that obviously now I know better than that.
[1:25:30] Okay so i'm a little frustrated because i sort of feel like you're just like yeah well you know this that and the other and this that and the other and i mean it's it seems to me that your children are dangling on the precipice of divorce and you're sliding over into a really messed up part of your life where your children are going to suffer i feel like i'm the only one who gives a shit in the conversation i'm.
[1:25:54] Sorry i don't.
[1:25:54] Know i'm not asking you to apologize i'm just telling you like it's uh i feel like i'm just sort of poking and prodding you and you're just kind of inert like i'm trying to get some um i don't know i'm not trying to like get emotion out of you it's just i find it a little bit bewildering no.
[1:26:13] I'm just i'm trying not to cry well.
[1:26:16] Why why the hell that you're doing that? Isn't this something to cry about?
[1:26:22] My children's life, yeah.
[1:26:23] Okay, so why are you trying not to cry?
[1:26:36] Because when I was younger and I cried, I'd get attacked even more.
[1:26:42] Okay, so why are you treating me like a child abuser? Why would you call me out and then treat me like a child abuser? I mean, I'm not that guy, right? Didn't you call me precisely because I'm not that guy?
[1:26:51] Yeah, you are.
[1:26:56] So, why are you, because, you know, why are you treating me that way?
[1:27:00] Sorry, I don't mean to be. No, no, no.
[1:27:05] Sorry that is uh that i don't mean is is is it back to um uh intentions right i can only okay yeah i can only judge you by what you do and i'm not offended i'm not critical i'm not mad i'm i'm just sort of point pointing it out right that it's really tough to care about someone's life more than they do no.
[1:27:25] I i do care.
[1:27:27] Okay so what uh if you're crying or you're feeling upset about this what what's going on in your heart that this is occurring what what what would you cry about if that makes sense i'm not saying you don't have anything to cry about but what specifically.
[1:27:47] I'm extremely sad that i let this happen for so many years that i i knew i, i shouldn't let my grandma be around my kids i shouldn't i shouldn't be around her so why I still let my kids. I'm terrified of what's going to happen with my kids. If me and my wife get a divorce, I know it's going to damage them. I'm angry at myself that I let things get to this point, that I didn't stand up to her.
[1:28:33] Okay, what happens if you stand up to her, in your mind? What's the worst-case scenario?
[1:28:41] 100% I'll be kicked out of my house.
[1:28:46] Sorry, is it your house or her house? I didn't quite understand that.
[1:28:49] It's her house. Okay, but you're paying 80% of the bills.
[1:28:53] Right? So let's say you get kicked out of her house, right?
[1:28:57] Mm-hmm.
[1:28:58] Okay, well, you can still pay. I mean, you'd have to maybe get a slightly smaller place or whatever, but you can still afford a place, right?
[1:29:08] I might be able to. Yeah, I could probably afford a place.
[1:29:11] Okay, let me ask you this.
[1:29:12] How many bedrooms are in the house?
[1:29:17] Okay, so four bedrooms, right? So you've got four bedrooms, and so maybe you've got to move to a three-bedroom place, right?
[1:29:29] Yeah.
[1:29:31] Because you're still paying 80% of the bills. So if you were paying 0% of the bills, I could understand that, but you're still paying 80% of the bills, right?
[1:29:39] Mm-hmm.
[1:29:40] Okay. So you could afford a place not with your mother, right?
[1:29:47] Yeah.
[1:29:48] I mean, do I have that right?
[1:29:50] Yeah, I could.
[1:29:55] Okay. So, what else?
[1:30:08] Thank you for watching. Well, now that I think about it, my kids would probably be a lot better off.
[1:30:12] Well, they're certainly better off if their parents go through a divorce, right?
[1:30:16] Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
[1:30:20] And sorry, just give me, are you in your late 20s at the moment, mid-20s?
[1:30:24] Yeah, late 20s.
[1:30:25] Late 20s, okay. So when do you think it's time to start living with grandmommy? Do you have a plan for that? Is that something that you're thinking about? Or is it just like, no?
[1:30:43] Um. i guess i was it sounds really mean but it's towards her so i guess it's i mean, i guess i was just waiting for her to die ah.
[1:30:59] Is she unwell.
[1:31:01] Uh she has in the past few years okay.
[1:31:05] And uh how would you how long would you guess she still has.
[1:31:11] At max, five years.
[1:31:14] Okay. And your brother's dead, right? Does she have anyone else to leave the house to?
[1:31:23] No.
[1:31:24] Are you concerned that if you move out, she will burn the house down? Will she give it to charity? Like, what will happen to the house if... Sorry, go ahead.
[1:31:37] The house isn't a mortgage, so it'd be foreclosed on.
[1:31:40] I'm sorry, the house has a mortgage?
[1:31:43] Correct. Yes, it does.
[1:31:45] Okay. So if you leave, she can't afford the house?
[1:31:48] Yeah.
[1:31:49] Okay. And why doesn't she have any savings? Why hasn't she paid off the house? I mean, she's in her 80s?
[1:32:02] Yes. And because she never saved a dime in her life.
[1:32:06] Okay. So she's been a spender?
[1:32:09] Yep.
[1:32:10] Because she was also married and she left her husband. Is that right? Okay. So she didn't plan for her old age and she didn't keep a man around who would be able to help her support herself in her old age. She didn't save for her old age. She didn't invest. And so I'm a little lost as to how this is your problem.
[1:32:38] Him it's not and now that i think about it i i would bet that her ex-husband would let her live in the house that he kicked me out of i'm.
[1:32:51] Sorry i didn't follow that can you repeat that.
[1:32:53] I i would not i would bet that her ex-husband would let her live in the house that he kicked me out of.
[1:33:04] Oh so he's got a spare house.
[1:33:07] Pretty much yeah.
[1:33:09] Okay so if she has no assets what are you hoping to get when she's dead.
[1:33:16] Take over the mortgage i guess but.
[1:33:19] You're paying 80 of it anyway yeah.
[1:33:22] I have taken it over.
[1:33:25] Okay so if you oh so you've put money into the house and you're concerned that if you leave the money you've put in the house will be lost.
[1:33:38] That and i don't know in the area i'm in i pay very very little compared to what rent costs and what uh if i were to take out a mortgage would cost so there is, i know i know i could afford a place, and, i i don't know that was very thought out yeah yeah i i've put a lot of money into this place.
[1:34:12] And you've put money into the place in the hopes that you are going to get the money out of it when your mother dies then you take over the mortgage and you get the money back is that right, yeah okay and roughly how much i mean ten thousand fifty thousand a hundred thousand how much money have you put into the place, probably $15,000.
[1:34:44] And I know what you're going to say next no $15,000 is not worth my kids future.
[1:34:50] It's a lot of money how much does a divorce cost.
[1:34:57] Probably a lot more than that.
[1:34:58] Well I mean there's A yes and B there is no price because it's harmful to your kids, right?
[1:35:04] Yep.
[1:35:05] Okay. Does your wife agree with your decision to put money into the house and stay in the house?
[1:35:18] Uh, I don't know, but I don't think she would.
[1:35:24] What do you mean you don't know? This is where you live. What do you mean you don't know? She has no opinion about where you live?
[1:35:32] No, she likes that house and, you know, it's a nice house. It's, it's a house that we live in. Um, but I guess I've, I haven't talked to her recently about, hey, maybe we could find somewhere else to live.
[1:35:51] Okay, so she likes living in the house. She's no problem with your grandmother?
[1:35:55] Yeah. Well, she knows where my grandmother is, and she avoids her.
[1:36:03] So she doesn't like your grandmother?
[1:36:06] No.
[1:36:07] Okay. Okay, so if she doesn't like your grandmother, why is your grandmother taking care of her kids sometimes?
[1:36:18] Because I've let it happen.
[1:36:20] Well, no, no, she's a mother too, right?
[1:36:23] Yeah, we have let it happen.
[1:36:25] Okay. And so...
[1:36:27] It's more convenient that way.
[1:36:28] She prefers the place to keeping her kids out of a malign influence or a negative influence, right? She likes having the place and if it leads to, you know, maybe your grandmother's mean to your kids, maybe there's a divorce, she's willing to take that risk, right? Or are you guys just drifting along like leaves on a stream, not making any particular decisions at all?
[1:37:02] I think the past year or so, we've kind of just been coasting along. And it makes, now that you say that, because she took the kids to her mom's house.
[1:37:14] Oh, when she just left.
[1:37:16] Yeah, and I didn't put two and two together. But yeah, no, that makes a lot of sense. I don't think she is okay with the situation.
[1:37:22] Because you can't be a man in your grandmother's house you can't be a husband you can't be a father you can't be a leader in your grandmother's house it's impossible i couldn't no one the rock couldn't no one could conan the barbarian would turn into peewee herman in your grandmother's house, yeah you follow yeah now here's the thing about life if you don't make the decisions life makes the decisions for you if you don't choose life chooses for you if you don't choose your life life will just make your decisions for you and in this case your wife is making a decision for you now she is why did she want the kids in your marital bed for years and years?
[1:38:17] To protect them.
[1:38:18] No, maybe, but not primarily. Right? I mean, it's not like your grandmother's going to sneak in and do sacrificial acts on them in the dark, right? So why does your wife want your kids in the marital bed?
[1:38:45] To use a turn of phrase because I haven't left the nest.
[1:38:50] Okay that's all very abstract what's the more immediate and practical effects of having kids in the marital bed come on man oh yeah you want to have kids in the marital bed.
[1:39:06] So there's no marital.
[1:39:09] Yes you have no sex because she doesn't want to have sex with you I mean am I wrong how's your sex life been, rough okay you're not having much sex are you right so she because you know what is it that gets women to get the kids out of the marital bed because they want to have sex with their husbands right, yeah so she's keeping the kids in the marital bed to keep you away, Now, you can't address that directly, so you nag her about sleeping habits and, you know, what's best for the... Like, it's just avoiding the issue, right? The issue is she needs the kids in bed to keep you away from her.
[1:39:59] Yeah.
[1:40:00] I mean, again, I'm guessing. I could be wrong.
[1:40:03] Nope. Nope, because even still, when she does want to be away from me, she'll go sleep in the kids' bed.
[1:40:12] What do you mean when she wants to be away from you?
[1:40:15] Like if she's angry at me or she told me last week that she was going to go stay with her parents and then didn't leave until yesterday or yeah yesterday and that whole time she was sleeping in the kids room instead of in the bed okay so any anytime she's upset with me she'll, she'll definitely leave the marital bed and.
[1:40:37] I you know i'm sorry to be so blunt but i mean Are you in a mostly sexless marriage?
[1:40:42] No, it's definitely not mostly sexless. It's not as much as I'd like, but it's not sexless.
[1:40:49] Okay. So, like, once a month, twice a month, once a week?
[1:40:54] Once a week.
[1:40:55] Once a week, okay. So... I assume that's down from earlier, right? Now, of course, you've got three kids, or four kids, I guess. So, three, four?
[1:41:09] Three.
[1:41:09] Sorry, you've got three kids, so that's sort of understandable. It's kind of tricky, but I assume that's down from before, right?
[1:41:15] Yeah, it definitely is.
[1:41:16] Got it. Okay. And, of course, a way that you guys would be able to have more sex is if the kids weren't in the room, right? Obviously, right?
[1:41:27] Yeah.
[1:41:27] Okay. So, do you think that's the wrestle that's going on deep down?
[1:41:35] Uh with me no.
[1:41:37] Between you guys.
[1:41:38] Yeah um, yeah i think i definitely think so on my part and i think that's played a big part resentment i hold for her uh because even i woke up that morning before she texted me and when I woke up alone I articulated my thoughts as the marital bed was betrayed.
[1:42:09] When she left?
[1:42:11] When she slept in the kids room. That's definitely an issue on my part.
[1:42:24] I'm not sure what I feel that I feel.
[1:42:29] Lack of sex and.
[1:42:34] And have you guys had any conversations about lack of sex.
[1:42:41] Yeah and I got better for a couple months and then kind of waned back down.
[1:42:48] Now is it also the case that I mean are there reasons like she's just tired and exhausted and and heightened from your grandma and you know she's got to take care of three kids and like is it some of that stuff too, oh there's just a phase in the marriage where it's just going to be there's going to be less physical intimacy because um uh you know you just got the three kids right no.
[1:43:15] I think it's a choice because we still would go to bed at the same time and we still you know we'd put on a cell or watch a movie and we would still be together in the bed but we wouldn't be having sex or even making you know communicating anything like that as well.
[1:43:35] Okay so when you talk to your wife about um sexual frustration and so on is it like i don't know i hate to sort of you want me sex i'm your your husband and let's get this going or is it like um what's going on that that i'm i'm feeling less attractive and and is there something that i can do to to help with that or like how do those conversations go.
[1:44:00] I would say for a while, it was a lot of, oh, you know, I need sex. I'm a man. I need more sex. My sex drive is high. And then once we did have that, we had a good, honest conversation.
[1:44:14] You basically put yourself forward as, here's another list of chores, and you need to add me. You add me to the chore list.
[1:44:22] Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
[1:44:24] Right. Okay.
[1:44:25] But then we had, you know, an open conversation and like, hey, it really does make me feel less attractive to you when you deny me. So if you don't want to, that's, you know, let's say that, but I guess I don't need to get into the details of the conversation. But when we had an open conversation, that's when things did start to ramp back up.
[1:44:50] Okay. And then didn't.
[1:44:53] Yeah. Okay.
[1:44:55] Got it, got it. Okay. And when was the last time that you felt that your wife was genuinely attracted, lusty, enthusiastic about physical time with you?
[1:45:17] Probably about six months ago.
[1:45:19] Oh so that's not too bad.
[1:45:23] But yeah no it was kind of a one-off that i felt that way.
[1:45:32] Uh okay sorry let me just then say on a consistent basis not like okay some on.
[1:45:38] A consistent basis, probably three and a half years.
[1:45:47] Okay got it and so one of the ways that that this sort of happens is that if women aren't getting what they want emotionally in the relationship men end up not getting what they want physically in the relationship if that makes sense yeah it does So what is your wife not getting emotionally in the relationship that she needs or wants? I mean, has she expressed that kind of stuff to you or is it sort of a, would you guess?
[1:46:17] I would have to guess. I could probably guess somewhat accurately.
[1:46:23] Okay. So she's not said to you, here's what I'm missing emotionally in the relationship. And you've not asked her.
[1:46:32] Correct. And I think she hasn't asked because she's scared of altercation with me.
[1:46:38] Altercation meaning what not to choke hold no no.
[1:46:42] Meaning, uh i, you know i guess an argument uh but not not a healthy argument more of us bickering back and forth at each other until it turns to.
[1:46:56] Okay so what would she say uh is that you can guess right so what would she say is missing for her emotionally in the relationship.
[1:47:07] I can tell you she doesn't feel supported emotionally.
[1:47:15] Okay, but I'm not sure what that means.
[1:47:19] Sorry. I'll give an example. When she started going back to school, she was super excited about it, and I kind of just blew her off. I was like oh yeah that's fine and I can tell you why I did that but I don't think it.
[1:47:43] Sorry when she.
[1:47:43] Wanted to go back to school.
[1:47:44] You blew it all off and what yeah tell me a little about that.
[1:47:49] Yeah she wanted to go back to school and I, guess I and well I I didn't want part of me didn't want her to, because Because that means less time with the family, less time for myself with her.
[1:48:12] I'm sorry, when did she decide that she wants to go back to school?
[1:48:18] About a year ago.
[1:48:19] Okay. Now, do you know why she wanted to go back to school? No.
[1:48:25] She told me that she wanted to go back to school, so that way when the youngest is old enough for school, that she could go to work.
[1:48:36] Okay. And your youngest is how old again?
[1:48:42] She's three now.
[1:48:44] Okay. And I assume, am I right in assuming that your kids stay home, did not go to daycare, right?
[1:48:50] Correct. Yes.
[1:48:53] Okay, so there's another couple of years of parenting your youngest before your youngest goes to school, right?
[1:48:59] Yep, and my middle is starting school this year.
[1:49:01] Okay. So why does she want to go back to school now? Is it because it will be a couple of years for her to complete some coursework so she can work?
[1:49:13] Yeah.
[1:49:14] Okay. So how were things, sorry, just remind me, how long ago was it she decided to go back to, a year, right? You said a year?
[1:49:21] About a year. Okay.
[1:49:22] So what bad thing happened in your relationship a year ago?
[1:49:36] I don't. Prior to that, I. I quit a job I was with for about seven years, two years ago, or a year and a half ago. And then I went to go work for this place and I absolutely hated it. I was probably chronically upset and irritable with her. And then I found a new place about a year ago, but I would assume that's probably what led her to seek work, was I was making less money doing worse work and being more irritable all the time.
[1:50:28] I obviously don't know your wife's motivations, but my first guess would be that that's when she decided she was probably going to leave.
[1:50:37] Yeah, no, 100%, because she, about 10 months ago, right before she decided to go back to school, or right after one of the two, she did go stay with her mom for a couple days but it wasn't she made it seem like it wasn't a serious issue her complaints were my criticisms, and my overall attitude towards her which I think I have worked on at least a little bit, my criticisms at least I have not been criticizing her as much and sorry that you.
[1:51:25] Criticized her what sort of stuff would you would you say would you like call her names or or what what.
[1:51:30] Would you say no i i would criticize like if again if dishes weren't done oh well look at that dishes aren't done again um oh so you were kind of passive-aggressive and sarcastic yeah yeah which.
[1:51:47] Is a unbelievably weak position as a male right.
[1:51:50] Correct right it's Very incorrect.
[1:51:52] It's womanly, right?
[1:51:54] Yeah, it is.
[1:51:55] Unless she has very strong lesbian tendencies, she's probably going to find that extremely unattractive.
[1:52:00] Yeah.
[1:52:01] Okay. All right. So probably about a year ago, she says, well, crap, this might not work out. I've got to have a source of income.
[1:52:11] Yeah.
[1:52:12] Right? So then she starts going back to school, and this is all very indirect, right? You've got to read that he leaves.
[1:52:20] Yeah, and then she got a part-time job or a source of income about a month ago when she thought things were definitely not going to last.
[1:52:31] And so when she's working, who's taking care of your kids?
[1:52:35] I am.
[1:52:37] Well, what about you working?
[1:52:39] We we made the schedule work out to where when i get home from work she would go to work sometimes she would leave a couple hours early and she would take her kids to take our kids to her mom's okay.
[1:52:52] And how's your relationship with her mom.
[1:52:57] Um i like her mom we don't have the best relationship i feel like she's always not really, liked me, so I've kind of just kept my distance there. I don't know whether... I guess I can't say that's a good relationship, but it's not a bad relationship either.
[1:53:19] Wait, you haven't won over your wife's mom? Are you crazy? You need to win over your wife's mom if she's around, right? Because what happens otherwise?
[1:53:40] What happens.
[1:53:44] When your wife gets mad at you goes to her mom and what does her mom say.
[1:53:50] Yeah you should probably leave him.
[1:53:56] How does her mom get along with your grandmother.
[1:54:00] They don't I think they've only met a few times, well they they have only met a few times and i i've never asked her what she thinks about my grandma but i don't think it's a very high opinion and.
[1:54:20] What does your mother-in-law think about your you and your wife living with your grandmother.
[1:54:27] She probably does not like it at all, and I don't know how much of my background or my grandma's history she knows but I don't think she doesn't like it.
[1:54:46] Um, how often has your wife gone to her mother's in upset?
[1:54:54] Just twice.
[1:54:57] Now, when she left, what was it a week ago?
[1:55:03] Uh, yesterday she left the house, but about a week ago she left. Well, I say she left the relationship. She wouldn't talk to me. She wouldn't look at me. She would stay in the kids' room.
[1:55:20] And was there something, sorry, if you've mentioned this, was there something very specific that happened? No. Okay. So if there wasn't something specific that happened, then I assume that she's been working with her mother to get to a safe haven.
[1:55:38] Yeah. Yeah, definitely.
[1:55:40] Okay. And so yesterday she left, and that's when you emailed me, is that right?
[1:55:47] No, I emailed you on Tuesday or Wednesday last week when she told me she was going to go stay with her mom.
[1:55:54] Right, right. Okay, got it. Okay. So, has she communicated to you that she wants a divorce?
[1:56:06] Um she hasn't directly said she wants a divorce i asked her if she was at the point of a divorce and she said yes i think so and then i've talked to her since then asking if, she's sure that there's no reconciliation here that sorry.
[1:56:28] What do you.
[1:56:28] She's 100 what do.
[1:56:29] You mean you're asking her?
[1:56:33] I've texted her mostly, but we had one talk since this happened.
[1:56:38] Sorry, what do you mean you're asking her? I mean, it's very passive, right?
[1:56:46] Yeah, it is. It is passive.
[1:56:48] So you're like asking her what her decision is going to be? Like, just tell me what the rest of my life is going to be like? I don't understand. Like, do you want her back?
[1:56:57] Yeah, I do.
[1:56:58] Okay. Have you told her, fallen on your knees, begged her, promised to change? I'll go to therapy. I'll do what I mean.
[1:57:05] I literally have.
[1:57:06] Okay. So you have begged her all of that. And when did that happen?
[1:57:12] On Thursday.
[1:57:16] Okay and she didn't want that, I mean sorry she didn't accept the offer she didn't.
[1:57:28] Say okay.
[1:57:29] Let's give it a try.
[1:57:31] No and the last thing she had said is that she's still going to go stay with her mom for a while and she's gonna talk to, some counsel, and see...
[1:57:49] You mean like a lawyer?
[1:57:50] No, no.
[1:57:51] Oh, a counselor.
[1:57:53] Pretty much, yeah.
[1:57:54] Okay, like a therapist.
[1:57:55] A pastor.
[1:57:55] Oh, a pastor.
[1:57:56] A pastor.
[1:57:57] Okay, got it, got it. Okay. And from one to ten, how much do you want the marriage to continue?
[1:58:06] Ten.
[1:58:07] Okay. So, What can you do to have her understand how important this is for you?
[1:58:21] I can talk to you for one. I can do counseling. I can talk to the church that we attend. Those are all objective things that I can do. I can do subjective things. I can tell her, but that's not going to mean as much as showing her.
[1:58:51] Yeah, and you said that you weren't even sure what her unmet emotional needs were.
[1:59:00] Yeah, I could ask for what those are.
[1:59:01] So that's really fucking lazy, bro. Like, that's just, I gotta tell you, that's just straight up lazy.
[1:59:07] No.
[1:59:08] I mean, if you're in a relationship with someone, you have to know what they like and what they don't like, what's missing for them, what's excessive for them. I mean, she's your customer, right? You're providing the service called husband and father. And she's your customer and you don't have a clue what she's unhappy about or you just have to kind of guess.
[1:59:33] No, I know what she's unhappy about. I just, she hasn't told me. I've tried to ask her the simple stuff like, hey, what is your love language? I want to appreciate you and your love language. I don't want everything to be in my love language.
[1:59:50] No, no, but you know what she's unhappy about. So why are you asking her what she's unhappy about if you know what she's unhappy about? i mean if i go into the doctor with a big cut on the back of my hand and he says what's the problem where does it hurt wouldn't i be a little alarmed at the doctor yeah.
[2:00:09] Yeah you would you yeah definitely would.
[2:00:12] Okay so if you know what's missing for her and that's like she feels nervous you feel scared you put her in these half chokeholds you're passive-aggressive you You complain, you criticize, you nag, right? Is it that kind of stuff, right?
[2:00:27] Yeah.
[2:00:27] Okay. And how long have you been doing that stuff?
[2:00:42] Probably three years. Okay.
[2:00:48] So for three years, she's been sort of nagged and criticized, and there's been the passive-aggressive, some chokeholdy stuff and like that kind of stuff. She's scared and doesn't want you walking behind her. And so she's just, and she's got a bunch of kids, right? So she's worn out.
[2:01:05] Yeah, she is.
[2:01:06] Yeah, she's just worn out, right? She's like, I can't manage my husband and all of these children. He's supposed to be there to reduce my workload. And in some ways he's just increasing it, right?
[2:01:15] I definitely have been increasing it.
[2:01:17] Okay. So, I mean, obviously you can't make someone's life more difficult for three years and not have them want to crawl or chew their way out of your life, right?
[2:01:28] Okay.
[2:01:28] So when did you first realize that she was having a negative experience of you overall? I mean, every now and then it's occasional, right? But, but in general, when did you first begin to realize, or when did you first notice, gee, I'm kind of naggy and passive aggressive and a little chokeholdy or Or like, when did you first notice that?
[2:01:46] About a year ago.
[2:01:47] Okay. So for two years you did it and didn't notice it?
[2:01:52] Yeah.
[2:01:53] Really? Honestly, I mean, if you tell me, I can only... So you just didn't notice it? You didn't notice that you were criticizing her or nagging her?
[2:02:02] No, I would say I noticed that I was criticizing and nagging her, but I didn't realize how it was affecting her.
[2:02:09] No, no, that's a lie. Come on, man. Don't, don't, don't. Okay. I mean, you can't criticize people and think it's affecting them positively, right?
[2:02:17] Yeah, I thought it was okay.
[2:02:18] You can't nag people and think they're having a great fucking time, right?
[2:02:21] Yeah.
[2:02:22] Okay. So you were nagging her and you were criticizing her while she's also being a stepmother to your daughter, right?
[2:02:31] Yeah.
[2:02:31] And how has she worked hard at that to give your step, your daughter a positive experience?
[2:02:37] Yeah.
[2:02:37] Okay. So she took on your child as well as having two more and she's worked fairly diligently to try and be a good stepmother. Is that right?
[2:02:44] Yes. Okay. She has been a great stepmother.
[2:02:47] And you nag and criticize, right?
[2:02:50] Okay.
[2:02:50] Okay, so I guess my question is, and this is the question you're going to have to answer to your wife is, why the fuck didn't you just stop? Like seriously, life is sometimes not that complicated. My wife, I keep nagging my wife, and she stepped in to become a stepmother, which is a hell of a thing to do, right? It's a very tough thing to do, particularly a daughter, right? So she stepped in to be a stepmother. she's from a less she's from a less dysfunctional family than yours, right?
[2:03:23] Yeah.
[2:03:24] Which would not be hard, right? So a couple of years ago you realize or you know that you're nagging her and criticizing her and all of that so why don't you just shut your mouth? Seriously, why don't you just stop? I'm not saying that's like a simple but just stop.
[2:03:40] I don't know.
[2:03:41] Well, you do know. You do know. you do know because obviously that's the one thing you do if you could go back in time is just put a toilet plunger on your mouth and say shut up stop talking don't do it right, Do you want to know why you didn't stop? Okay. I could be wrong. But here's what I think. Because old granny wanted her out. Because she don't like granny too much, does she?
[2:04:33] No.
[2:04:34] So old granny wanted your wife out. And you're used to pleasing granny, right?
[2:04:42] Yeah.
[2:04:43] So you nagged your wife the same way your grandmother nagged you, because your grandmother wants your wife out of the house.
[2:04:58] Yeah she does right.
[2:05:00] So that's why you didn't stop because and that's the price of living with grandmother right she runs your life yep and I'm not blaming you for that I mean she was the boss of you growing up and not a great boss either, right? So, granny runs her life. Granny doesn't want your wife in the house. Granny knows exactly how to get... Now, she... Granny can't criticize your wife directly. You know that, right?
[2:05:27] Yep.
[2:05:27] Why not?
[2:05:28] Yep.
[2:05:32] Why can't your grandmother criticize your wife directly? Why does she have to go through you?
[2:05:37] Because then I back up my wife.
[2:05:38] Yeah, because then you guys would get closer together and then you'd both leave.
[2:05:41] Yep.
[2:05:42] So granny can't criticize your wife directly because that drives you and your wife closer together and then you both leave, right? So granny can't get your wife to criticize you because she doesn't have the same power over your wife that she has over you. So granny gets you to criticize your wife. Now, did your grandmother ever complain about your wife not putting the dishes away or not doing things in the right way or leaving the cupboards open? and did your grandmother complain to you about that?
[2:06:13] Yeah, constantly.
[2:06:15] Okay, so your grandmother, you understand, this is just... Your grandmother complains to you, you complain to your wife, your wife leaves. So Granny gets you all to herself and she doesn't have to worry about you moving out because you sure as shit aren't going to move out if you've got to pay for a divorce.
[2:06:32] So does this make sense?
[2:06:34] It does. Completely.
[2:06:37] And that's why I say it's probably not the wisest idea to have toxic and dysfunctional people in your life. I'm not kidding about this stuff. You're like somebody staring at a giant wall of black mold saying, I have some lung problems. Well, no shit.
[2:07:00] Staring you in the face?
[2:07:01] Yeah. Because if you want your wife back, you have to explain why you've been a nag. And she's got to know what the hell was going on and how it's going to change. Because if it's just like, no, I'll change, right? She's going to be like, well, why the hell did it take me moving out for you to say you're going to change? That's not good.
[2:07:26] Yeah. And it's not.
[2:07:30] Whereas if you say, I didn't realize that I was, you know, the puppet master of my grandmother. And she nags at me. I nag at you because I've got all this historical trauma, and I didn't listen to that crazy bald guy up there in Canada. And so, you know, this is what happened, and I'm absolutely wretched, and I don't care, you know, what we have to do, but we're not living here.
[2:07:58] You know, it's... I don't know if it's coincidental. I'm sure it's subconscious. subconscious but the past few weeks i have been contemplating selling everything i own not to move but to try to start a business that was why i wanted to do that but i think, subconsciously i i knew yeah.
[2:08:24] I think so i think so and you know maybe it's time for your grandmother to stop, messing up your life. Half killing your mom, half killing your uncle, through that daisy chain, half killing your brother or a quarter killing your brother. Like, I don't know, maybe it's time for her to stop fucking up children's lives.
[2:08:50] Yeah, it is.
[2:08:52] But that's up to you.
[2:08:56] No, it is.
[2:09:04] And i mean given that you're you know on your way to 30 years old it's not really specifically her fault anymore right no so that's not yeah i mean i i i would certainly if i were in your shoes i'd talk to a therapist and i would uh try and try and figure all of this out um i personally would not tell any of this to your grandmother. I would just start making alternative plans and so on. Because if you start to engage with her, I imagine she's going to bring out the heavy guns and you don't need that right now when you're trying to get your family back. So I would try and minimize it with regards to her and just say, you know, I'm going to try and figure this stuff out. And, you know, maybe it's not great for me to be living in this house. And she's going to be like, but where am I going to go? And what am I going to do? It's like, you know, Look, I have a lot of sympathy, and maybe I can help you out at some point, but I've got to look out for my own kids.
[2:10:02] Yeah. And something that makes a lot more sense now, yesterday, my grandma, she came in and talked to me for a minute. And she was like, hey, I know something's going on between you and your wife, and I want you to know that I'm here for you.
[2:10:21] Right.
[2:10:22] And if that doesn't tell me everything, I need to know.
[2:10:24] Yeah, I'm not here for you both. I'm just here for you. Right, right, right.
[2:10:28] Yeah. Yep.
[2:10:29] Right. So, yeah, I think that's the major stuff. What do you think?
[2:10:37] It feels like a window has been opened and I can see everything now.
[2:10:47] And the speech, you know, to your wife, I have no idea what you should say to your wife, but I think it has something to do with the decision that we have to make is for the best is what's best for the children.
[2:10:59] Yeah.
[2:11:00] And I have not been serving what's best for the children. I've not been serving what's best for you. I think I get it. Right. right? She's obviously more than welcome to listen to this. And if she wants to talk to me, I'm obviously happy to chat with her as well, if that helps. Because you've got three lovely children who are completely innocent in all of this and who have suffered quite a lot. I mean, your eldest in particular, right? So whatever can be done to break the cycle, but obviously it's if things can be worked out so the speech is something like, I'm absolutely committed to working things out I have been wrong and I've been a jerk and I have been weak and I have I get that and I understand it you know the trauma I didn't deal with it the right way I get that, I'm going to go to therapy but.
[2:11:55] If we can work things out that is infinitely better for the children and i think we owe it to the children to really really try and i have not really tried, i get it now i'm really sorry it had to get to this point i'm absolutely ashamed at this i get your desperation you know i'm i'm doing completely retarded things like putting you in these what is it triangle hole did the half nelson is what i maybe we used to call it or whatever right yeah Yeah, so, like, I mean, that's just beyond wrong, and it's, you know, it's not a joke, it's not funny, you need your oxygen, I get that.
[2:12:36] So, but if things can potentially be worked out, and I think they can be, but if things can be potentially worked out, that is for the best. That is the best outcome for the children.
[2:12:50] And we need to go and have a life of our own. I'm not sure what your mother's been saying, though I can understand she'd have some negative views. My grandmother has been nagging me, and I'm triggered by that. I end up nagging you. That's shameful and wrong. I should never put my grandmother above what's best for my family. I haven't been the right kind of leader. I haven't been the right kind of protector, and I've been a bit of an uncertain provider. And you've not been happy for long enough, for a long time, and I haven't really been inquiring about that. And that's because I knew deep down, I think, that you being unhappy with stuff would have to do with my grandmother, and I didn't want to confront her. So that's history. Obviously, I had a really terrible and terrifying childhood, and I've still got to kick off some issues. I've got to kick loose some issues around that, which I'm absolutely committed to doing because we have to be better than our parents were towards our own children. And that means doing everything we possibly can to stay together, which is what I'm absolutely committed to do. And I'm so wretched and sorry about not listening to you, taking care of your heart, supporting you in the right way, and having you feel safe and happy and secure in life.
[2:14:06] My arms. And I don't know exactly what you would say, but if she really, really gets that. Because, look, I mean, you and I can speak frankly, right? I mean.
[2:14:18] Yeah.
[2:14:18] So, look, man. She goes out into the world. She's in her 20s too, right?
[2:14:25] Yeah.
[2:14:26] Right. So, she goes out into the world. She's got two kids, right?
[2:14:34] Yeah.
[2:14:35] Uh maybe she'd maintain a relationship with your eldest or your daughter your first daughter maybe maybe that would be the case maybe not or whatever right so she's got she's got two kids and what is she going to go out and sign that try and date, like does she think that this because a lot of times women get a little confused about this and you know maybe she won't or whatever right but they think well you know i you know i mean Obviously, she was sexy, hot, and attractive enough for you to jump her bones back in the day, right? And so a lot of times, women have this vague feeling, which is completely wrong or false, that because they got massive amounts of male attention when they were younger, if they divorce some guy, then that'll just happen again, and it won't, right? I mean, you both have wrecked your sexual market value in the dating world, which is why you should stay with each other. if at all possible because what's out there is celibacy or crappy men, that's all that's waiting for her out there is celibacy or being used and.
[2:15:52] She does hers better than that.
[2:15:54] Well but if she's not together with you which is why i think it's really worth trying to work everything out i mean obviously for the kids for each other for the future but i mean if you then have two failed relationships with the mothers of your children i'm telling you man there's nothing out there for you i know like you guys have each other or it's monk and nunnery time. Like, once you decide to have kids together, the only people who are going to be floating around you guys are, I mean, to be perfectly frank, really desperate, sad and broken people or creeps who want access to your kids.
[2:16:39] Yeah.
[2:16:41] I mean, I've seen it close up. I've seen it close up. My mother, who was a beautiful young woman, she just thought that was going to, you know, hey, I'll just leave your father and I'll just go out and get another husband. It's like, really? Really? And she never, ever, ever, ever got a stable relationship after that. Now, I mean, you know, I guess some people claim to be able to do it and, you know, whatever, right? Yeah, but some people win the lottery, but you still should save for your retirement, right?
[2:17:18] Yeah.
[2:17:19] So, yeah. I mean, there's nothing out there. Like, there's nothing that's out there. Like, you in particular, but, you know, her as well, there's nothing.
[2:17:31] It's going to be just wretched. I mean, your hearts are going to be broken. It's going to take you years to recover. Your kids aren't going to want you to date anyone new. No one of any quality is going to want to get involved in this kind of mess, and that's it, I mean, for the rest of your life. This is you and your wife, that's your chance at love. Again, there are some wild exceptions, but they're so rare that they're not really worth considering.
[2:17:56] Yeah, the exception is not the rule.
[2:17:58] Yeah, yeah. So, your chance for love, your chance for actual pair bonding is with the mother of your children, and hers is with the father of her children. there's what else is out there and this is why you can't ever take that for granted but i just don't want either of you to have the illusion that well i'll just go find somebody better and it's like nope that's not gonna happen right this is an old samuel kevin samuels thing where he's like a woman can't do better than the man she gave children to like she's she's not going to go out there and find someone better now maybe she just wants to be completely alone for the rest of her life but that's uh that's uh 60 years band that's a it's a long ass time to be be alone and that's also not good for the kids right because they need to see a relationship that's functional so i would uh move move every burden and cross every mountain and swim every sea to to make this work and i hopefully with these kinds of insights you can at least at least then it's not incomprehensible as to what happened if that makes sense and once it's comprehensible it's less scary and you know what actions to take yeah.
[2:18:59] No it it makes sense now.
[2:19:01] All right it okay man will you keep me posted about how things are going i will all right i appreciate the call is there anything else that you wanted to mention no.
[2:19:11] Thank you so much Stefan.
[2:19:13] All right man go in peace talk to your wife will do all right take care man bye.
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