0:02 - Gentle Parenting Explored
10:00 - The Burden of Gentle Parenting
21:00 - Misconceptions of Gentle Parenting
22:49 - Finding Balance in Parenting
In this episode, I delve into the nuanced distinctions between gentle parenting and peaceful parenting. While peaceful parenting emphasizes a non-violent, non-intimidating approach, gentle parenting introduces a more prescriptive method—aiming to foster emotional connections through gentleness. This distinction can often lead to contradictions and challenges for parents seeking to apply these philosophies consistently. I argue that gentle parenting, with its rigid expectations of emotional responses, can create undue pressure on parents, setting them up for feelings of inadequacy and stress.
I share personal anecdotes, highlighting relatable moments such as navigating a toddler's desires in a grocery store. These moments serve to illustrate how children mirror adult behavior in their expressions of frustration and desire, which often leads to tantrums. A key aspect of my discussion is the importance of active listening, emphasizing that when children feel unheard, their upset can escalate into meltdowns. I critique the modern approach that insists on always validating a child's feelings without addressing the underlying frustrations or inconsistencies in the parents’ own behavior.
The conversation also covers the evolving strategies employed by parents across generations. I explore how past practices of discipline—like physical punishment or timeouts—contrast sharply with today's techniques that prioritize emotional understanding. However, I caution against the overly permissive interpretations of gentle parenting that can lead to chaos rather than cohesion. I firmly believe that children benefit from clear boundaries and that sometimes, parents must assume the role of the “bad guy” in a constructive manner.
Throughout the episode, I examine the societal pressures that contribute to the challenges faced by parents. The contemporary discourse on parenting, compounded by social media, creates a landscape where parents often grapple with self-doubt and external judgments. I present a critique of gentle parenting, presenting it as potentially tyrannical due to its all-or-nothing approach that dismisses the legitimacy of negative emotions like anger or frustration.
In conclusion, I propose a flexible approach to parenting that I refer to as "sturdy parenting." This model encourages parents to listen genuinely to their children while also modeling appropriate emotional responses. By fostering a mutual understanding where parents address children's needs without sacrificing their authority, I argue that we can cultivate healthier family dynamics. Parents shouldn't just seek to be gentle; rather, they should strive to be figures of moral inspiration for their children, equipping them with the tools to navigate the complexities of their emotions and relationships.
[0:00] Yo, yo, good morning, everybody. This is Stefan Molyneux from Freedomain.
[0:03] So a couple of minutes on gentle parenting. Gentle parenting to me is different from peaceful parenting. So peaceful parenting is peace, right? Which is to not use violence or intimidation or science or strength or control or bullying or aggression to get your way. So it just says peace, right? It's not a positive prescription, right? You can negotiate your way out of conflicts just about any way. So basically, it's the equivalent of don't steal, right? So if you have a rule called don't steal, it says you can acquire property in any legitimate way, you just can't steal, right? That's fairly reasonable, right? And so peaceful parenting simply says use peace, right? Do not use violence or aggression, size, strength, intimidation in your dealings with others. It is consistent with how you're supposed to deal with adults, of course. So this is why I called it peaceful parenting.
[1:02] Now, gentle parenting, though, is a positive prescription, right? So thou shalt not steal is a negative prescription, which thou shalt not means you can do anything else, right? Just don't steal and you can do anything else. Now, general parenting, though, is a positive prescription, right? So if I said that the only way to be moral is to be in a profession where you are nice and helpful to the sick and elderly, right? You have to be nice and gentle to the sick and elderly. Well, that would be a positive prescription, and that would be tyrannical, right? So gentle parenting is tyrannical because how are you supposed to know that gentleness is the right response? So for instance, if you're angry with your child, you teach the child how to deal with anger by occasionally, if you're angry at the child, being honest and open about that and real-time relationships, saying how you feel without jumping to conclusions and so on. So gentle parenting is a positive prescription and therefore is tyrannical, right? So is gentle parenting too rough on parents? There's a growing backlash to this popular approach. All right, so it's highly likely that at every point in time in some corner of the world, the child has lost its ever-long mind to the cereal aisle in the cereal aisle of a grocery store.
[2:31] So, if your child is having fun with you, your child will not have a meltdown about candy. Your child will want candy, and you can absolutely express that you can sympathize with that. I love candy too, and so on, right? But why would the child lose his mind? Why would the child be my daughter again? I know it's a sample size of one. I get all of that. But, you know, it doesn't mean it doesn't exist. But she's never had a tantrum. I remember we were in a hardware store when she was very, very little. And she was desperate to get a rocking horse, which had, it was like a battery operated rocking horse that neighed and stuff like that. And I remember we talked about it probably for about 40 to 45 minutes. And that was a time where we did end up getting her the rocking horse. It's actually still, it's actually still in the basement. I smile every time I go past it. And so that was something she really wanted. And was there a really good reason to say no? there was not. Now, there are other things that she wants, which we did say no for a variety of reasons and so on. But if your child knows that you care about what your child wants.
[3:39] You are reasonable and so on. And if you want your child to let the tantrum, right? If you want your child to not have a tantrum, then you yourself have to not be selfish, right? Because a tantrum is a frustration at a collision of impossibilities or incomprehensibility. Right? So if a tantrum is when the child tries to get what he wants, despite or perhaps because of the negative effect on others, it comes out of a kind of desperation and not being listened to. So listening to people without agreeing with them is really important, right? You can listen to people. You don't have to agree with them. You can listen to children. You don't have to agree with them. And children can listen to you and they don't have to agree with you. So if, for instance, the mother has dumped the toddler in daycare and has gone to work.
[4:35] And the child has more material possessions and toys than they want. What they really want is not trinkets and toys, but their mother. So let's say the mother has gone to work. Then the mother is doing what she prefers at the expense of the child. The mother is getting what she wants at the expense of the child, right? And I'm not talking about sort of brute economic necessity where, you know, the mother has to go to work because, I don't know, she's a single mother. But I mean, even that would be like you chose the wrong guy to be the father of your children. So you could come up with some situation where there's just brute economic necessity, right? Like we starve and we're homeless if mother's not at work. But that's not the case with most families. Like with most families, it is a massive amount of, you know, there are two cars, there's a nice place to live, there's lots of trinkets and toys and snacks, right? So there's no brute economic necessity, right? And children understand that, right? So if the mother goes to work, then she's doing what she wants at the expense of the child.
[5:45] So get your own way at the expense of others is fine. And so then when the child says, I want cereal, the child is mirroring the mother's view. I want a career. I want a paycheck. I want to go to work. I want to go to work. I like going to work. I need to go to work. Work is important for mommy, right? And so when the child has a tantrum, the child is mirroring the selfishness of the parents. Get what you want at the expense of others. Get what you want. When the child desperately does not want to be dropped off at daycare, well, the child is dropped off at daycare.
[6:26] And the child is crying, and the mother drops off the child at daycare with some impatience. And the child, you just have to suffer with the negative consequences because, mommy is going to do what she wants. Mommy is going to get the career that she wants. She's going to go to work. She's going to escape the child. The fact that it's really upsetting to the child is completely immaterial. So you get what you want, and who cares about the negative effects on others? So when the child wants something in the grocery aisle, then the child works to get what he wants, no matter the negative effects on others. I mean, I don't know why this is particularly confusing, but anyway, so let's see here. How a parent reacts to the tantruming child? Is that a word, all right? It's more likely to differ by generation. In the 50s and 60s, a parent might have spanked them. In the 80s and 90s, a parent might have been more likely to ground them or give them a time out. Today, you're likely to find a parent crouched right there on the floor beside them, telling their child they see their frustration, that they're not getting lucky charms, that the feelings are valid, but we do not scream in stores, and to choose between Cheerios or Mini-Wits. Okay, we do not scream in stores, that's fine.
[7:34] Has the parent ever screamed at the child? Have the parents raised their voices with each other? Have the parents used intimidation and bullying with the child or with each other, right? So one of the reasons why children have meltdowns is because their world is completely incomprehensible. You know, like for the parents, yeah, you get what you want and screw the feelings of others. And yes, you yell, you intimidate, you escalate to get what you want in the relationship with the child. So then when the child mirrors that behavior, suddenly it's like the worst thing in the known universe, and it's terrible and must be punished. And the child is usually tantruming out of despair that he's trapped in a bottomless well of endless hypocrisy. All right, so this modern parenting style, whether you call it gentle parenting, positive parenting, or respectful parenting centers on acknowledging a child's feelings and the motivations behind challenging behaviors. No, this is sort of just, it's cheap psychologizing, you know, it's cheap psychologizing. So when you have an upset child, most parents in no way, shape, or form want to get to the root of the child's upset because the root of the child's upset will doubtless be critical towards the parent in some sort of foundational manner. And so that's It's quite important. So this one, How Gentle Parenting is Going, this is a...
[8:53] I'm not going to beat his ass. I said, breathe in, breathe out. I'm not going to scream and shout. I said, breathe in, breathe out. Don't knock their ass up. Woosah. Damn it. Woosah, woosah. Absolutely appalling. and just horrendous. So she's like, oh, I really, I really want to hit him. Oh, and then eventually she just loses her temper, right? So this is, of course, a parent having a tantrum, right? And if the parent is unable to control her own feelings, then, of course, the child is not going to be either, right? Where's that face at the end, right? And there's the superiority. Yeah, I mean, I get this is a little bit comedy, but it's nasty, nasty, nasty, nasty. All right. So yeah, this psychologizing is that it's dismissing the child's feelings with deeper and more brutal methods in some ways than even just yelling or hitting. Because you say to the child, I understand that you want this, but you're wrong, right? I empathize with you and you're wrong.
[10:00] Whereas to not even empathize with the child is a little less cruel in some ways.
[10:09] So, let's see here, Steered by Bittening, Parenting Influences, blah, blah, blah. Many parents today aim to be more respectful and less reactive than their own authoritarian parents. But recently, there's been a shift as exhausted moms, dads, guardians, and experts question if gentle parenting style is actually too rough on them. So, the gentle parenting style is kind of tyrannical because it demands that the child be gentle and all deviations from gentleness are negative, which does not cheat to child the value of, quote, negative emotions, anger, jealousy, hostility, fear, anxiety, you know, it's like, it's like everything that is upset is solved with a hug. And that is a hug is a way of not listening to the child. You know, like, well, I know why you're really upset, right? This is sort of typical psychologizing. I know why you're really upset. And I'm going to just soothe you. You're lying. You think you're upset about the cereal, but you're just overwhelmed, right? I mean, I remember when I was a kid, I would have problems.
[11:16] We would be going as a group. And I was the youngest kid. I was right two years past the end of the baby boom. So I was always the youngest kid. I was the youngest kid in boarding school. I was the youngest kid in the neighborhood. I was certainly the youngest kid in my family. I was the youngest kid in my extended family. And so I was always the youngest kid. And the problem with that was that people didn't wait, right? So what would happen is people would be walking really, really fast. My little legs would get tired and I would start to complain. And then people would walk faster because they wanted to give me a negative experience of complaining. And so I would like literally watch people walking down the street and struggling to keep up and getting tired and so on, right? So I would be frustrated that people weren't taking into account the fact that I was, you know, smaller, right? I mean, the difference between four and six in terms of mode of power is quite considerable. And so I remember once with my family member, extended family member, I was crying, you know, the sort of frustration. And some humiliation at not having people wait for me and really worrying that I was going to.
[12:31] I mean, I was going to be lost. And this did actually happen to me when I was very little in Ireland. I still remember the color of the wall of the police station that I ended up in because I was with my father and my father got impatient that I was walking too slowly. And I ended up lost, like I could not find him. And I was just wandering around. I was maybe three or four years old. And I was just wandering around in, I think it was in Dublin. And I ended up being taken to a police station where some hours later, my father showed up. So it was not inconsiderable risk. And so I remember at the end of a day like that, I was kind of frustrated and frightened and angry. I was crying. I was mad. And I remember one of my aunts saying, oh, he's had a big day. He's just overstimulated. And it was just, that was really annoying. So this idea that you can just, you can dig in and there's no real reason for what you're feeling. It's just some petty thing. Like you just want your Captain Crunch, right? You just want this, that, or the other cereal, right?
[13:45] And so when your feelings are ignored by this sort of pathetic psychologizing, it's really frustrating for people as a whole, right? For people as a whole, right? I mean, you see this, this is sort of, you've seen quite honest, the de facto state on the internet, right? And the de facto state on the internet is, oh, if you criticize modern femininity, well, you're only doing that because you hate women, right? Or you have a problem with your mother or like, so it's this psychologizing that you dismiss feelings by ascribing petty roots to those feelings, right?
[14:25] Uh so you know if if um uh if somebody's upset you just you imagine the the pettiest most ridiculous silly reason you know like i wasn't crying because i was constantly left behind and had to race to keep up and got ungodly tired and frightened uh i wasn't i just i just had a big day and was overstimulated it's like but that's not the that's not the issue so it's a way of telling people to shut the hell up and their feelings don't matter without saying it directly, right? It's a way of bypassing any legitimate criticism like I had at the age of three or four, some, you know, super legitimate criticisms of what was going on in my family structure. And if they'd listened and they said, well, why are you upset? Well, because everyone keeps walking too fast and, you know, like I can't keep up. And we had these like monster days of like roaming around all these places and so on. And I'm tired and I'm small.
[15:21] And, you know, people keep moving ahead, nobody cares that I'm behind, and it's really frightening and frustrating. Well, that's a legitimate criticism. But no, no, you see, I'm just, I've had a big day and I'm just overstimulated, right? And so on, right?
[15:41] Or there would be males, males would, you know, if you get some injury and you'd be upset. Because when you're a kid, you don't know how bad the injuries are, blood is scary to see. And so when you're a kid, little kid, I remember getting an injury on my leg and, you know, the sort of rough, callous, nicotine-stained yellow hands of some uncle, been to the wars, have we? And it's like, no, I mean, it's not. I know it's not war. I'm not missing a limb. So yeah, this idea that the child's emotions are foolish and petty, and you just need to comfort them because they just don't know why they're upset and none of it makes any sense. Why does the kid want the Captain Crunch to the point where he's willing to have a tantrum? Why does he want the Captain Crunch to the point where he's willing to have the tantrum? Right? Because the child is unhappy and sugar is a drug that is used to make the child feel happier, right? If that child is happy and connected and loved and so on, then the sugar junkification is much less bad, right? Okay, so no matter what we do, it feels like we get to get wrong. Yeah, that's the self-pity of parents. It does bring undue pressure on parents to get it right every time. That's just not feasible. No, you don't have to get it right. You just have to listen. Just have to listen.
[17:08] Myoria Randri and Nesolo, who, listen, Ottawa says she was literally drawn to the idea of gentle parenting because it was different to how children were raised in her Madagascan culture. She thought it was the best way for her daughters to avoid trauma. She says, however, I felt like I was so overwhelmed because I have strong-willed children. I'm convinced them I'm saying, no, Jim, it would take hours. I would rain to the end of the day. Right, so gentle parenting is just gaslighting, right? Peaceful parenting is, I mean, just use peace. It doesn't say use gentleness because gentleness is a positive prescription that gives you a one-size-fits-all approach to the interaction, which could be the complete opposite of what's needed, right? So I don't know. Let's see here.
[17:49] Today's parents. Oh, yeah. So here is a child. This is the fantasy, right? And this is a very, very deep fantasy, just for those who are just listening. This is Crunchy Mama wrote a, drew a little cartoon, and it's a mom with a raging toddler. And the toddler is like literally on fire and raging. It's like a little fire with arms and legs. And the mother hugs the toddler, and eventually the toddler cools down and is loved, right? So the opposite of anger is love. Now, this is not healthy. It's not at all healthy. It's not at all healthy because it's telling the child that the love of the mother is what overcomes the rage of the toddler and therefore it's relying on women to manage your own anger through love and that sets you up to be an abusive husband or boyfriend. I mean, this is not kidding about this, right? And so and this is also how some people approach you know maybe other cultures with very different values well you just love them and then they just bond and attach and and it's it's really, dysfunctional this is enabling right so if the child's angry you don't hug the child and then the child is fine the child just gives up knowing that they're not going to be listened to and that their anger means nothing right so you listen you listen now tell me what you're angry about you you.
[19:11] All right, a third of the parents they surveyed in a study who identified as gentle parents reported feelings of burnout and parental parent uncertainty. The qualitative analysis didn't compare these specific findings to non-gentle parents, but the authors did note that the gentle parents would offer these self-critiques unprompted. So one of the reasons why we criticize ourselves is because we reject or are hostile to the criticisms of others. I mean, other people can have very legitimate criticisms of us or feedback or whatever you want to call it. And if you deny the validity of other people's negative feedback to us, then you end up kind of attacking yourself.
[19:53] And that's not good. All right. One mother who identified as a gentle parent in the study wrote, I'm hanging on for dear life. Right. So how difficult is it to listen to your kids and to focus on your life and the choices that you make as something that is for the best for the kids. It's really not that kind. It's when you have all these conflicting things, like I have to please my job, I have to please my mother, I can't please everyone, and this is where being overwhelmed is. If you just put your kids first, it's pretty easy. All right, so the pressures to fulfill exacting parenting standards, parenting standards, coupled with the information overload on social media about the right or wrong ways to care for children, has left many parents questioning their moment-to-moment interactions with their family. And this was only 100 parents, which is fine. It's not the end of the world, right? So... So, how do you interpret gentle? This misconception is evident.
[21:01] Critics of the approach often poke fun of what they see as overly permissive millennial parents who never say no or raise their voices.
[21:11] Let's see here. Parents may think they just need to be gentle in every single situation. The pressure to be a gentle parent already sets parents up for failure because they're not sure how to achieve it. Let's see here. So, but I mean, there's nothing magical about your relationship with your kids. The same morals that should run your relationship with adults should run your relationships with your kids, right? You can't just validate emotions. It doesn't work on its own and it's exhausting. Parents need to be the bad guy sometimes. In fact, a lot of times, kids' feelings should not be holding a sausage, right? So this is win-lose, right? So either the kids dominate you with their feelings or you dominate your kids with your feelings as opposed to just listen to your kids and work to meet their needs that are reasonable and model better behavior and so on, right? Let's see here. Psychologist Rebecca Kennedy. Dr. Becky. Parents are struggling to hold boundaries. I have a counselor to be told to empathize with their kids. Yeah, but empathize with your kids doesn't mean like just validating their feelings or whatever. It means listening to what their feelings mean and criticisms they may have with their environment or their life.
[22:22] Her new model of parenting is sturdy not gentle i'm not gentle i'm not harsh i'm sturdy, uh let's see here this uh malaysian woman from malaysia she's trying to find the middle ground with her daughter saying it was just too much to try to be a gentle parent 100 of the time she tries to select her moments i also include the aspect of parenting in my culture i found successful, blah, blah, blah. So what can I tell you?
[22:50] It's like all of the things that people talk about, like, oh, here's how to run your relationship. Men are from Mars, women are from Venus, and you need this, that, and the other. You can't negotiate desire and so on. And everyone's trying to figure out how to get along and have good relationships. Well, just, you know, be virtuous, listen to your partner and be someone that they can morally admire. And life is our involuntary response to virtue if we're virtuous. And so this idea that you just have to sit down, listen to your kids, but not really listen to them because you're basically just trying to bleed out their feelings with pretend empathy rather than listen to genuine complaints that they might have and work to, address them. It's not great. So it's like, no, no, no, it's not gentle. It's sturdy. And it's not 100% like that doesn't help at all. It doesn't help at all. Just be someone your kids can morally admire and uh listen to them and and uh have have their feelings truly influence the choices that you make uh yourself so hope that helps freedom.com slash donate lots of love from up here guys and gals i'll talk to you soon bye.
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