Stefan Molyneux talks with a caller who is working to understand the mecosystem, or ecosystem model of the self. The caller describes feeling unmotivated and indecisive, caught in habits that waste his time, and he wants practical ways to bring the idea into his daily routine and larger goals.
They turn to the caller’s main focus, which is music and songwriting. He explains that he longs for discipline but has traded it for spontaneity and aimless drift. Stefan describes the mecosystem model as a collection of inner parts, each with its own voice and purpose, instead of one unified ego.
The caller traces his habit of downplaying his music back to his parents, who insisted it would never amount to anything. Stefan helps him link this to deeper patterns of abuse and fear. The caller recalls his father telling him he would always fail, and he notices anger rising as they explore it.
A central thread is anger as a form of protection. Stefan explains that the caller’s inner restraint developed to shield him from his violent father, and that this protective part can only relax once the caller learns he can feel anger without being destroyed. They talk through the practice of mentally rehearsing confrontations to build a sense of safety and strength.
Later they consider the dangers that can come with success, particularly in the music world. Stefan points out that talent and visible achievement often draw in bullies, exploiters, and legal problems, and that the caller may not yet have the inner strength to push back against predatory people. He advises against rushing toward success and instead focuses on developing the anger, certainty, and support needed to handle it.
0:00:00 - Introduction
0:04:16 - Defining the Mecosystem
0:07:16 - Life Paths and Artistic Purpose
0:11:53 - Rest, Motivation, and Daily Struggle
0:13:45 - Minimizing the Music Dream
0:17:56 - Anger Against Abuse
0:29:36 - Standing Down the Inner Guard
0:35:26 - Pursuing the Fight
0:40:59 - Submissive Voice Patterns
0:45:34 - Success Attracts Predators
0:53:50 - Contracts, Control, and Ego Strength
1:02:18 - Pleasing People, Losing Yourself
1:04:56 - The Hero’s Journey Risk
[0:00:00] All right, everybody, Stefan Molyneux, of course. This is a particularly ferocious podcast conversation and just wanted to reiterate beforehand, of course, this is a mental exercise. Don't do anything violent in the real world. This is all about confronting the bullies in your mind and escalating violence in terms of internal images of self-defense, nothing violent in the world, just to reiterate, but yeah, be prepared. This is quite ferocious.
[0:00:28] Well, nice to talk to you again. How are things?
[0:00:30] Yeah doing well I uh, I had, on our last private call, I talked about integrating this mecosystem idea, which has just really just been so fascinating to me, this concept, this mecosystem concept. And I realized that there's some parts of me that I'd still need to work on with myself in terms of understanding this. And um i kind of wanted to work through it with you before i uh started implementing it um out with other people so um yeah let me uh pull up the doc here real quick this.
[0:01:07] Was your question right you want this to be a public call right.
[0:01:10] Yes you got it yes and uh so yeah um i've been making some progress with your private callings lately and you know there's still some things occurring for me that are some old habits from, even when I was with my parents before I defood from them and for example I've been really unmotivated for the past three or four days, and when I try to pose a question to my Mika system or try to inquire like tell me more, as to why I'm lazy or unmotivated I don't get any really adequate dialogue with myself, it ends up being kind of frustrating because I'm trying to ask for a question or ask for any response back and nothing really comes back. So when I ask myself why, when I ask my mecosystem why I'm indecisive, it results in me being, I think it results in me being more frozen and just I end up wasting a lot of hours just doing nothing, with just watching useless YouTube or whatever.
[0:02:21] And, um... In general, I'm unmotivated to go to the gym or pursue any passions that are important to me, and I just don't know why. I'm struggling a lot with maintaining discipline over the past week or so. And, you know, I obviously want to be someone with purpose and a management drive, and I want to accomplish things with the one life that I have. And I feel like that mastering this mecosystem is the key to this. So the questions in my doc that I had prepared for this were, how can I better integrate the mecosystem into my daily life? What am I missing or doing wrong when interacting with the mecosystem that I could improve? And yeah, I just can't do this in isolation. So yeah, is that a good start?
[0:03:09] Yeah, sounds good. What are you working on as a whole?
[0:03:13] Well it's just in it in general these goals that are important to me like you know as they're going to the gym or um i play music and i i write music and i try to get out and and play and um you know just trying to be consistent with songwriting and stuff like that and it's just this it feels like it's this ebb and flow uh instead of discipline it's almost like it's almost like i've given up discipline or I've displaced discipline with this new concept of mecosystem being introduced and, whim is taking over where it's just like now, does this make any sense where I'm, not forcing myself to do something now but I don't have the old structure in place that I would have had with discipline before the mecosystem. It's just like I'm trying to integrate these two ideas of discipline but also being spontaneous and um, no, I guess I'll stop there.
[0:04:16] Yeah. So just for those who are listening to this as a call and show, you may not be familiar. Very briefly, the mecosystem is the idea that you don't have a single ego, that there's inner parents, inner siblings, friends, and so on. Everyone who's given us feedback, whether voluntary or involuntary, takes a sort of residence in our head. And if you had, like in my case, I had an abusive mother and neglectful father. Now, because I had an abusive mother, I internalize my mother's abuses so that I don't provoke her external abuses. So when I do things that might cause her to become violent, the inner mother says, stop doing that, you know, will give me anxiety or fear or something like that. So they stopped doing that behavior. And the inner mother, which mirrors the outer mother, is there to protect me from the outer mother. And then once I got my outer mother out of my life, the inner mother could be more integrated and be part of the conversation in a more positive way. And so the idea that I want to will something is there are parts of you that want it. There are parts of you that don't want it. Everyone has to have a seat at the table and you can't just order people, you can't order inner alter egos around and you've got to sort of listen to them because they've got a lot of wisdom and a lot of knowledge that's really valuable. Does that sort of accord with the way that you look at it?
[0:05:40] Yeah, absolutely. And I listened to your podcast on procrastination and kind of noticed the pattern that I've had over the past weeks of life. The more I try to resist having these different voices at the table, the more I try to say, hey, I have to do this thing. You know this is something that i have to make a habit... the more it seems like i i pull back from having to do that in some way and uh i find a way to wriggle out of that if that makes any sense.
[0:06:15] Okay yeah i got it so you said i want to do stuff so one of the things that i have to be careful with with regards to the mecosystem is to say i want to do it how do i convince you which is sort of like being, for me at least, it's like being a cheesy car salesman. Like, I need you to buy this car. I want to put you in a car today. I'm going to get you the right car for you today. And it is kind of self-interested. It's not, you know, do we want a car or anything like that? It's not really curious. It's like, look, we have to do some songwriting. We have to go to the gym. We have to practice music. And what do I need to listen to to get us to do that? Is it something like that? Yeah, that's not quite the mecosystem thing. The mecosystem thing is, I don't know whether we should or shouldn't do it. What does everyone think, so to speak?
[0:07:11] And then just listening for what comes back.
[0:07:16] Yeah, I mean, I wanted, oh gosh, I mean, I won't go through the whole list because it's pretty damn long, but I wanted to be a playwright. I wanted to be an actor. I wanted to be a director. And I did all these things. I think that did them pretty well. But mecosystem said, nope. Okay, maybe I'll do academics. You know, I'll get a graduate degree. I'll study it. I studied at three different universities. and then my mecosystem was like nope and then i'm like okay i'll be a business guy business guy and so on right and my mecosystem was like no and then you know the mecosystem has been pretty happy overall with the philosophy stuff the philosophy show uh going on like 21 years now and so what i wanted wasn't what everyone wanted now of course looking back if i'd have got involved in the art world it would have been very destructive because the art world has become I'm hyper woke and, you know, and certainly anti white male to a large degree and so on. Right. Same thing with academics and the business world. I would have been caught up in endless HR, DEI stuff and all of that. So at least with here, I can sort of like with what I'm doing, I can live with more honesty and integrity and and so on. And it ended up in a pretty good place. So if you have the goal and you're like, OK, mecosystem, here's the goal. What do we need to do to get everyone to line up with the goal? That's, at least to me, not quite the mecosystem.
[0:08:43] Okay is it just a process of like you talked about you going through different phases of whether it was the arts or the education is it just a process of testing whether or not, everyone in the mecosystem is in accordance with that like you had to find
[0:09:01] Well, no, I'm sorry -- this is all before i developed the theory of the mecosystem so uh this was all just me telling, you know, hey, we can, well let's... I like acting let's go be an actor i like writing let's go be a writer. I like directing. Let's go be a writer. It was all like, I like business. Let's go be a bit. And I got some participation and so on, but it was not, for me, it was not sustainable. Now, of course, I'm not trying to say that your music is anything in that vein, right? Your music may be like my philosophy show, right? The thing that takes you for life. But how many of your inner parts want to do the music thing and why? And the why is the most important. Why music?
[0:09:45] So, would you like me to answer that now?
[0:09:47] Sure.
[0:09:49] Well, I think I really resonated with one of your podcasts that says that, you know, what do we owe the world? You know, what do we, instead of thinking about what I want to do, it's what have we been given with this short life that we have to add to the world? What is the world missing? and obviously the the biggest thing is is philosophy and um peaceful parenting for sure but just the my thought was you know i i haven't any talent in in this uh in in writing music and singing and um and uh getting out and and uh it's just something that i'm really passionate about and um i thought okay well that's a way that i could give back that's something that i could give to the world is to be um i guess an artistic leader in that way instead of a uh outright, uh philosophical leader i understand philosophy informs all of our decisions and actions but now that was my that's the first thing that comes to mind so.
[0:10:56] It is a vehicle for the promotion of virtue is that right i'm not trying to put words in your mouth i just don't know if.
[0:11:04] You're sure i understand what you mean well that's very interesting um historically uh probably not with music i mean um no no you i mean your music, I think so. I mean, just as a person, and I think art plays a role in expressing virtue. It's not the whole hog, it's not philosophy, it's not true reason, but there's a feeling side of reason, right, that can be captured through art, and the feeling side of philosophy that can be captured through art. So I think in terms of transmitting that feeling side of virtue and philosophy, yes.
[0:11:46] Okay. Yeah. I'm not disagreeing with you. I just want to make sure I'm, this is in the exploration phase of the conversation.
[0:11:53] Yeah, okay. So if you are lacking motivation, it could be any number of reasons. If you've been working hard for a while, you might need a break.
[0:12:03] Okay.
[0:12:03] I mean, is that the case that you have been working hard and doesn't necessarily have to be just on music, but you've been sort of expending effort and energy for a while. And maybe you just need a break. Maybe you need some a little bit of time off to sort of rest, recuperate, recharge.
[0:12:20] So I guess my first thought would be, you know, if it's how can I be so blocked in my mecosystem if this was something that was like I needed a break that I couldn't just ask that of myself.
[0:12:37] Well, hang on. Have you been working hard? Do you need a break?
[0:12:40] Well, I've taken a couple months off of working my full-time job, and then the music is just a side project.
[0:12:48] Sorry, hang on, hang on. So you've taken a couple of months off your full-time job but the music is a side project so what's the main thrust of your day then?
[0:12:58] Well the the main thrust of the day is is i i have a you know when i'm not working i i've recently joined back to work last week um but it's it's still a part-time affair the full-time job but the the main
[0:13:13] Sorry it's still a part-time affair, full-time job... I don't know what you're talking about. What the living hell is going on in there?
[0:13:20] There we go. Thank you very much for that. So I am working part-time for the job that gives me money.
[0:13:28] Okay.
[0:13:29] And the side project is the music. What entails most of my day when I'm not working part-time is writing songs. I'm either doing an open mic.
[0:13:40] Oh, so the music, sorry to interrupt, the music is your main focus, not a side project.
[0:13:45] Yeah.
[0:13:46] Why would you refer to it, just out of curiosity, as a side project that makes it sound like it's a couple of hours a week hobby or something like that? But that's your main focus, right?
[0:13:55] Well, yeah, it's definitely not a couple hours a week. I mean, I guess I just wanted to minimize it.
[0:14:02] But why?
[0:14:03] My first thought is I feel that people won't take it seriously or will try to bullshit it.
[0:14:13] People won't take it seriously, what does that mean?
[0:14:17] It's like you know you just hear all the time of like people people have some creative endeavor that they want to do and, I'm realizing this is from my this is I think this is a voice from my parents because my parents always told me that it would never the music or art thing would never work out, but yeah I mean I think I just wanted to minimize it when I just spoke to you then.
[0:14:41] So it's super important and also just kind of a side project.
[0:14:47] It's very important to me. Yes.
[0:14:51] Well, so what is the part of you, you said it's in appearance, maybe the part of you that wants to minimize it.
[0:14:59] Yeah.
[0:15:00] Okay, so the purpose of minimizing it is that if you said, I'm going to change the world with my music, your parents would like roll their eyes and say, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's not going to happen, like that kind of stuff.
[0:15:12] Yeah.
[0:15:13] Okay. So, when did you last have regular contact with your parents?
[0:15:20] Six months ago.
[0:15:22] Okay. So, I mean, that's relatively recent. We wouldn't expect someone to get over a 20 or 30 year marriage in six months. So, what is the mindset that you still need to protect yourself from your parents' scorn and minimization?
[0:15:42] What is that mindset?
[0:15:44] Yeah.
[0:15:46] I'm not sure what you mean.
[0:15:47] Well, if you're talking to me and you minimize what you're doing because you're afraid your parents will roll their eyes, then are you putting your parents onto me? In other words, you're reacting to me as if I were your parents.
[0:16:03] Yeah, I would be. Yes.
[0:16:05] Okay, so why would you put your parents onto me?
[0:16:10] I mean, it's irrational to do it.
[0:16:13] Well, don't label it. We're just curious, right? I mean, I'm just trying to figure this out. But putting a label on it, it's irrational. It doesn't help, right? So why would you react to me as if I'm your parents? Because, I mean, I would be more on your side, I think, than most with regards to taking it seriously and aiming to do something great.
[0:16:38] Yeah, certainly. Is it just because, like you mentioned, with having to break free of a 20-year relationship with somebody that that template is just still there and still working through it?
[0:16:51] Well, I mean, that's very abstract. I would say it's because you're not pissed off enough.
[0:16:56] Okay.
[0:16:57] I mean so most people if they were asked your children have a a great passion should you shit on it what would most parents say?
[0:17:07] That's terrible, I would never do that.
[0:17:09] Yeah you shouldn't i mean you may not you may warn them not to put all their eggs in one basket right but you shouldn't shit on the passion right you should just say look i mean let's say uh my kid wants to become a mime or something, right? That's like, okay, um, hey, you know, I respect the passion. Good for you. It could be a little tough making money as a mime. So you might, you know, you might want to have some other skills as well, you know, do the mime stuff. Or even if, you know, if my kid wanted to be a comedian, right? I'd say, look, I mean, good for you, man. Give it 150%, you know, write jokes, travel, tell jokes, but you're, you know, you also got to need to find some way to make a living because it's probably going to take a while to break into comedy.
[0:17:56] So... so, so, but your parents were just sort of scornful and skeptical of the whole idea right of music.
[0:18:02] Well that would be you know the the tame version i mean i experienced a lot of verbal and physical abuse and uh when i was younger and you know if it was like an escalation i mean the underlying thing that my dad would say was like you'll always fucking fail um so i'm sure that's informing this belief as well.
[0:18:22] Right. Okay. So the level of anger that you have over that horrifying level of verbal abuse and distress, murderous almost, right? It's murderous of your ambition, hopes, and happiness. So what's the level of anger that you feel towards that?
[0:18:41] Now that we're talking about it, I can feel my heartbeat start to get up. But this is something that we've talked about in private calls, but it's like this anger that I have, it ebbs and flows. I've had private call interview where we've really struck something or, you know, I've been going to talk therapy too. And there's times where I've really struck something and I've really been angry. And then after like 15 minutes, it'll fade. So if this anger is the key to what I'm trying to do here. How can I continue to sustain that?
[0:19:15] Well, I mean, it's to some degree concentration. So there's a part of you in the mecosystem that's really angry. In fact, kind of murderously angry, I would assume.
[0:19:25] Yes.
[0:19:27] And if you keep chasing them out of the room or walking past the hammering door and ignoring them, that's going to make it worse, right? So, why reject the angry part of you or ignore it or let it fade away, as opposed to waking up in the morning, you know, you brush your teeth and, okay, how angry are we today? Because you've got a lot of years of brutal abuse, which is going to be pushed to one side in a healthy way, dealt with through anger or rage, even.
[0:20:02] And yeah, I mean, to your point, like when I've tried to, had periods of stoking up the anger, like there's never been a time where it hasn't been positive for me to do that. I mean, you know, you hear it about the movies, about anger is bad type stuff, but it's never been that way. It's just been an engine of action and thinking for me, but it's just, could the pushing away this anger in the mecosystem, is it like a, is it a masochism thing? like wanting to return back.
[0:20:33] To no no no it's not masochism no so if you got angry at your father, you know if if he says to you you're never gonna you're gonna fuck up everything you're never gonna succeed at anything right yeah if you were to say you're a fucked up sad pathetic old man your children all hate you your wife hates you you're never going to achieve anything You're a sad fucking specimen, and I wish you were dead. My life would be so much fucking better if you walked in front of a truck. Actually, you know what? That's unfair on the truck. Just walk off a cliff, do the world a favor, and fuck off. What would happen?
[0:21:13] I mean, it would undeniably result in physical abuse.
[0:21:16] Well, he would escalate, right?
[0:21:18] Yeah.
[0:21:19] And he would try to punch you, right?
[0:21:21] Yes.
[0:21:21] And you pick up a fucking knife, and this is just a mental exercise, right? Obviously, you don't do this in real life, right? you pick up a fucking knife and you say you touch me i will stab you through the fucking heart.
[0:21:33] I'm smiling as you've said all these things I feel like a.
[0:21:38] I will stab you old man through the fucking heart if you put one finger on me you sad bullying children pathetic fucking waste of space.
[0:21:49] Yeah, I feel a real energy rising in my chest.
[0:21:52] If you were to have done that as a teenager or whatever and again just be clear it's a mental exercise I'm not recommending doing this to anyone. It's a mental exercise, right? What would he do?
[0:22:06] Just the escalation.
[0:22:07] Yeah. I will wait till you're asleep and I will beat the shit out of you. Right? He would just find some way that he could win, right?
[0:22:18] Yeah. Yeah.
[0:22:19] Okay? So then you would say, I'm buying a lock. I'm putting it on my door while you're at work. If you come through my door, I'm going to have a baseball bat. Let's fucking roll, old man. Tough guy. I'm not five anymore, you fucking asshole. I will take you fucking down if I have to. I will film it as self-defense, and I will get, not only when I not get jail time, you old fucker, I'm going to get a key to the city. People will cheer my name. Just try it. You pathetic child-bullying fucker. Not so tough now that I'm not a little kid anymore, right? Not quite so tough? Huh? Huh?
[0:23:02] I will film this shit. You'll go to jail. You'll go to jail. Assault. Child assault. Oh, I want to tell you something else, Dad. It's kind of interesting, just for your edification.
[0:23:17] I have recorded all of your threats for the last two months. All of them. All of the shit you say to me, to mom, to everyone. I got a website with your name on it. It's ready to go live, man. I'm going to send it to your boss. I'm going to send it to your parents. I'm going to send it to your siblings so everyone can lift the lid on this shit show of a parenting fuck up you've got going on. It's going to be google indexed it's going to be search engine indexed your name anytime anybody looks for you anytime anybody wants to find out about you i've got it ready to go on social media and the shit you say the bullying cowardly fucked up shit that you say has all been recorded and it's gonna go fucking live if you ever touch me or insult me or raise your fucking Weasley voice to me again. You'll get fired, ostracized. I'm going to make sure every fucking family member knows what a bullying piece of shit you are. Your move, old man. Make a move. Go on, make a move. I'm waiting. Do it. I'm begging you.
[0:24:33] Come on, tough guy. No, no, don't be so quiet now. Come on, you've had shit to say my entire fucking life. And you should be proud. You should be proud. When you say to your children, you're a total fuck-up, so you're going to fail at everything, you little pieces of shit, and bam, bam, bam!
[0:24:53] Hitting, smacking, threatening. You're like a fucking ape. You're an insult to apes. So you should be proud of all of this. You should be proud that every piece of shit bullying, violent threat and assault that you've hit on your children, you've enacted against your children, man, you should be real happy this is going to go public, Dad. Oh, and I've also, I'm going to send it to the police. I'm also going to send it to Child Protective Services. I'm going to send it to your church, your parents, your boss, everyone. Everyone. Because I don't want you to hide the glory of your parenting just at home. I want the whole world to see what kind of fucking parent you are. I don't want to hide your light under a bushel. I want everyone to know that you're a fucked up little turd who tells his children they're going to fail at everything, that they're little shits, that he threatens to beat them up, he threatens violence against them, he hits them. You hit your own fucking children, you absolute shit stain of a coward. So, yeah, you're proud of all of this shit, so I'm taking it public, man. I'm going to show the world exactly who you are so you can bask in the glory of everyone knowing exactly how you treat your family when there's no one else here.
[0:26:14] So yeah, go ahead. Go ahead. Insult me again. Threaten me again. This is all being recorded too. I'll be recording it every single time and I'll just keep adding. I'll just keep adding to the website and everyone's going to get an update and I will make sure it goes to the cops. I'll make sure it goes to the social workers, to child protective services, to your boss, your parents, your family, your friends, your fucking drinking buddies. All these people are going to get a real glimpse into what you're like behind closed doors. Because you always tell me, hey, man, I'm a good dad. I'm just teaching you what's what. I'm just making things. Give me a realistic view of the world, you little shit. Okay, so good. so now we can have the whole world learn from your glorious parenting so that other parents can be just as wonderful as you are you should thank me for this you should get on your knees thank me you really should because everyone is going to see exactly who you are when you're not putting on you know your little fucking show your little show tough guy you're a tough guy hey man i beat up my kid when he was five. I'm a tough guy. Look how strong I am. What are you going to go? Kick a fucking girl guide in the face and call yourself Mike Tyson? Piece of shit. It's all ready to go, man. All ready to go. What would happen?
[0:27:42] It would just be escalation. That was great.
[0:27:46] Would it? Hang on, hang on. I mean, I know you think that. And you could be right. I don't know the guy, right? But, I mean, he'd probably get fired. And he might get a call from the cops if he's assaulted his children. He might get visits from Child Protective Services if there are still children in the house. He would be really humiliated in front of all of his friends and family. I mean, unless they're all just like, yeah, you know, you should shit on your kids at every opportunity, in which case, well, I don't even know what to say about that, but it would be tough for him to get a new job. It would be, you know, people get Googled these days, right?
[0:28:23] Yeah.
[0:28:24] So I don't know. I mean, unless he's just completely insane, he would pause because that little calculation brain would be going, right?
[0:28:34] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He would pause.
[0:28:38] He would pause and you could send him the website right before it went public you say yeah listen up you can have a listen i got i've got it all transcribed it's got your name on it everything again assuming i'm not saying do this and i don't even know if it's legal i'm just it's just a mind mind exercise right just to be clear right but yeah you'd say here's the website man yeah here's his listen to this this is when you shit shit on me here here's when you screamed at me here i got the record of you punching me here and you know whatever it is, right?
[0:29:06] It's just you saying all that, I can't, I don't know why, but I just can't help but smile when I hear that.
[0:29:15] That's me being on the side of a victim of abuse, right?
[0:29:18] Yeah.
[0:29:20] So, go ahead, sorry.
[0:29:22] No, I was just going to ask, then there's a part of the mecosystem that I felt like was, there's parts of the mecosystem that are not for me that they're against me that there, there's an inner parent in there saying...
[0:29:36] no no no no part of the mecosystem is against you so you have a belief in your mecosystem and i'm not disagreeing with you i'm just pointing it out that with regards to your father you can't win and because you can't win staying angry is irrational like if i got up angry every day that i was aging would that be rational.
[0:30:02] If I got up angry every day that I was bald or whatever, I don't know, that would be irrational. I mean, I guess I could go get some Elon Musk-type hair plugs or something like that, but that just seems kind of sad. But anyway, so I can't win against time. Time is going to get me, right? I mean, I already have 12 extra years from cancer, right? So, but time is going to get me. Maybe I'll make it to 80, 90, whatever, right? But time is going to get me. So getting angry that you're aging is kind of irrational. Now, you can say, listen, I want to age well. I want to be healthy. I want to be flexible. I want to be fit. I want to be strong. Okay, so I'll exercise and blah, blah, blah, right? But I can resist aging, but I cannot win. And so if in your mind, you say, I can never stand up to my father, Because he will escalate to murder. Is that the general idea? And again, I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just trying to fathom the thinking.
[0:31:07] Yes.
[0:31:07] Okay. So if you resist your father, he will kill you.
[0:31:12] Yes.
[0:31:13] Okay. And I'm not, again, I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm not saying that's crazy. I mean, there are family members who kill each other, right? Okay. So you have killed the relationship.
[0:31:28] Yeah.
[0:31:29] So you are safe to be angry now without being killed. So you got to take on inner dad. And you do that to prove to your inner dad that he can stop defending you because the asshole is gone.
[0:31:49] I just had some fear as you said that.
[0:31:52] You can fire the bodyguard. Let's say you hire a bodyguard to protect your grandfather. And your bodyguard does a great job protecting your grandfather. And then your grandfather dies. Do you pay the bodyguard to protect his dead body or his grave? Let's say he's buried in an unmarked grave in some remote place. Do you hire the bodyguard or continue to pay the bodyguard to protect his gravesite? Because he's dead. And your relationship with your father is dead. But the guy in your head who protects you from your father by saying, don't get angry or you're going to fucking die, has not been taken off the payroll.
[0:32:40] He's still at his post.
[0:32:42] Yeah. Yeah. It's like one of those, you know, Japanese jungle fighters who didn't know the war ended 30 years ago, right?
[0:32:48] Yeah.
[0:32:51] So the question is why haven't you i would say fired him that sounds really bad but why haven't you discharged him from the military so he can resume civilian life.
[0:33:01] Is this just something that comes with with time and....
[0:33:06] No no it doesn't come with time. It comes from what?
[0:33:11] My first thought goes, they're still believing that there's some good left in my parents.
[0:33:17] No, no, no, because he's hired because there's evil in your parents.
[0:33:23] Right, yeah.
[0:33:24] So it's not because there's some good left in your parents.
[0:33:27] Or sorry, some...
[0:33:28] What releases him from the army? What allows him to stand down? He is there to make sure you don't get angry at your father, so you don't get killed by your father, right? So how do you tell him he can stand down?
[0:33:47] You let him do what he wants to do? You just let him out?
[0:33:50] Okay, that's bullshit. You know that's bullshit. That doesn't mean anything. Nice try, though. Come on. Let him do what he wants. What he wants is to protect you. That's what he's there for.
[0:34:03] So if he's there, why? Why is he there? Because if you get angry, you get killed, right?
[0:34:09] Yeah.
[0:34:09] Right. So how do you get him to stand down?
[0:34:13] You allow yourself to get angry and then you realize that you're not in danger anymore?
[0:34:18] Yeah, bingo. He's there because if you get angry, you die. Now, if you get angry and don't die, he stands down.
[0:34:28] Hmm. I feel like I've gotten so angry. It's like,
[0:34:32] No, no, no, no, you keep dropping it. 15 minutes, you said.
[0:34:35] Yeah.
[0:34:36] You keep dropping it. So you're allowed to get angry in isolation, but you're not allowed to get continuously angry. If the anger hits you or I bring it out in you, or someone else brings it out in you, or some circumstance brings it out in you. Sure. But I mean, the slave can get angry at the master, but only at night under the covers, right? He can seize. He can grab a little teddy bear and punch it or choke it, right? But he can't get angry as a habit. He can't allow his anger. He can't pursue his anger. He can't welcome his anger, if that makes sense.
[0:35:13] It just seems, yeah, well, how could I go about, like, would the next step be just letting anger continually inform my decision-making instead of just these 15-minute spurts.
[0:35:26] Go in pursuit of your anger.
[0:35:28] Well, tell me more.
[0:35:30] It means you sit there in a dark room, and you imagine a fight with your father, and you picture how you would win against your father. And you do so in the confines of your own mind, right? Okay, so tell me, how would you win? I mean, I gave some theoretical scenario before, but he's your father, how would you win against your father?
[0:35:54] If he tried to escalate, like, say, getting into my room or something?
[0:35:58] Yeah.
[0:35:59] Now or when I was younger?
[0:36:01] I don't know what you mean by younger.
[0:36:04] When I was not as strong as him, so underneath 10 years old.
[0:36:08] Okay, let's just say mid-teens, late-teens, something like that. How would you win against your father if he's escalating?
[0:36:17] I would do something like you described where I would have something in the room like a baseball bat or something to defend myself with
[0:36:25] So you'd hit him with a baseball bat.
[0:36:26] Yeah.
[0:36:28] Right. And then he gets up. And what do you do?
[0:36:31] I get ready for another hit.
[0:36:32] You hit him again. He gets up. What do you do?
[0:36:35] I hit him again.
[0:36:36] You hit him again until he stops getting up, right? I mean, that's what you would do if someone broke into your house to do you harm, right? Some home invader comes in, wants to harm you or people you love. You have a baseball bat. You hit him with a bat. And they get up. I'm going to kill you. Hit him with a bat again. Oh, get up. Right? Until they stop getting up. Now, again, this is all just a mental exercise. I don't know whether that's legal, wherever you are, but, you know, in a just legal system, in a fair legal system, someone breaks into your house, you hit them with a bat until they stop threatening you. I mean, police officers are allowed to do that with deadly force, right? I mean, if the Rodney King thing, he kept getting up, they kept hitting him with truncheons till he stopped getting up right so isn't that how you win against your father or let's say he sucker punches you or wails on you for a while and you don't have a baseball bat handy, how do you win?
[0:37:41] If he's just wailing on me um, You would just go into the primal mode, right? You would try to kick out his legs from underneath him or punch back.
[0:37:51] Or you might curl into a ball, apologize, pretend to cry, and then go get the baseball bat when he stops.
[0:38:00] Yeah, yeah.
[0:38:01] You fake it, right? I mean, boxers do this all the time. They pretend that they're just about to lose, and then they *boom*, right?
[0:38:08] Yeah.
[0:38:10] So, the way that you win with someone who's escalating violence is you escalate the fuck out of what you escalate. I mean, there's this famous, I'm sure from the movie The Untouchables, I don't know if you've ever seen it, but...
[0:38:26] No.
[0:38:27] Yeah. They put one of ours in the hospital, we put one of theirs in the morgue, right?
[0:38:34] Okay.
[0:38:35] I mean, organized crime does this all the time. Right, you beat up one of my guys, we break your guy's legs. You break our legs, we put you in traction. You put us traction, we shoot you till you're dead, like, they escalate.
[0:38:48] So continuing that escalation in my mind um whether it's my parents or with anyone who um is an enemy to me you know in terms of people that have abused me in my life if i continue that escalation in my mind that's what allows the anger to get out and the inner dad is relieved of his post the more that gets out the more that's um that anger is uh accelerated
[0:39:17] So, he's there because anger is suicidal for you because anger is going to get you killed to be angry is suicidal. Therefore, you cannot get angry because you need to live, right?
[0:39:32] Right.
[0:39:34] So, if you get angry, and not just in reaction, but you pursue it, you say, I welcome my anger, my anger is healthy, that guy was an asshole, I'm going to pursue my, I'm going to think about that confrontation, I'm going to think about winning. I'm going to imagine in my mind what I would do to win against someone who escalates in violence, which is I will escalate in violence until I fucking win. And I don't care how far I have to escalate in my mind, in my mental scenario. I escalate until I win. And I will stop at nothing less. You slap me, I punch you. You punch me, I headbutt you. You headbutt me, I take a baseball bat to you. You pull out a gun, I shoot first. And i keep shooting until you are disabled.
[0:40:32] It feels like over the past three to four days i've lived without um that escalation in my mind and um it's almost like with it's like without that escalation there's like a default to the mean of how i'd how i've been living for 20 years with them where it's like this this cattle product
[0:40:53] It's too abstract, to abstract. Dude, you're now thinking about the last three or four days in 20 years.
[0:40:59] Let's get into your ball sack here, man. Like, let's get into your, because the way that you speak, and you swallow your words a little, there's a little bit of voice wobble. It's very tentative, right? You don't speak with authority, at least not in the conversations we've had. And I know that it's a vulnerable time to be talking with you, but I want you to be able to speak with authority because you speak in a fearful way, in a deferential way, in a tremulous fashion, if that makes sense.
[0:41:27] Okay.
[0:41:28] You speak in the language of deference, in the intonation of deference. And I don't say this with any negativity or insult, but I'm just saying that that's the way. And when you listen back, your mind wobbles a little bit, and there's just this tentative kind of, you know, intonation, this way of communicating that is very tentative and submissive, if that makes sense. And again, it's not an insult. Of course, I'm glad you developed this habit, because you had to signal to your father that you would submit, right?
[0:42:03] Yeah.
[0:42:04] Because otherwise, you die. Or, you know, the fear is, or the perception is, the possibility is that you die, right? Okay. And evolutionarily speaking, it was pretty easy for a parent to kill a child. I mean, there were entire religions devoted to that. Child sacrifice, right?
[0:42:27] Yeah.
[0:42:28] So he just hands you over to the priest and the priest open you up and hold your beating heart up for the Aztec tier-based torture god and you're dead, right? So I'm very glad that you developed this habit right this submissive habit of communicating.
[0:42:47] It will invite aggressive people into your life I'm so sorry go ahead.
[0:42:50] I was just going to say you saying that like instantly triggered my defenses and um, I just really wanted to say I know that it triggered it because it's true it is true thinking about it but there was a part of me that did want to say fuck you to that.
[0:43:10] Well, go ahead, tell me.
[0:43:13] Do you want me to tell you the voice of that? Of that fuck you? Want to go down that line?
[0:43:19] Whatever you want to do.
[0:43:22] That line goes, you have no idea. It just wants to say you have no idea what we went through and that's all I wanted to say. I can't think of anything more to say.
[0:43:36] Well, I do. I mean, I faced death from my mother. I do. I mean, this is why I have great sympathy and I think some fairly deep understanding of what you went through. My mother was absolutely willing to escalate to lethal violence. I mean, I've mentioned this before on the show, how she beat my head against a metal door until I half lost consciousness. I mean, that's brain damage stuff.
[0:44:02] Yeah.
[0:44:03] And I was very little, maybe four, maybe three. And I was running away from home, like seriously, in the middle of the night, running away from home. I was going to take my chances with the wolves at the woods, then the witch at home. And of course, she lifted me up, beat my head against the door, and I just, I had to go limp. Because if I had resisted, I would have died. Now, whether I died physically or just had brain damage, doesn't really matter, does it? I mean, my identity would have died. or my body. So, yeah, I mean, I faced death. And almost all child abuse is founded upon the threat of death. It's like political power, right? All political power is based on the threat of death, which is the government escalates in the use of force until you comply or you die. So, I do understand And I don't want you to have bullies in your life But your vocal intonation of submission is going to invite bullies into your life.
[0:45:16] You saying that now, like my heart beats down to from, it's calmed down to from when I first heard you say that. And now I'm feeling a kind of repulsion because I know it now in my voice.
[0:45:32] Right.
[0:45:33] Like I want to get rid of it.
[0:45:35] Well, and it's going to prevent you from succeeding if you are submissive. Because if you have, let's say, you write, and I'm sure you will, you know, great, beautiful, wonderful songs. Well, quick question. Is the music industry full of really nice people or bullies?
[0:45:56] A lot of bullies, I've noticed.
[0:45:58] Oh, yeah. I mean, I was watching this documentary on the Eagles some years ago, and Don Henley's crippled wife got dragged into depositions. You know, listen to the song Death on Two Legs by Queen, the ferocity of the guy who they perceived was ripping him off and all of that. I mean, talk to Sting, talk to Billy Joel, Elton John, all got ripped off to millions and millions of dollars. I mean, look what happened to poor Justin Bieber, right? Hand over to ditty parties with God. I mean, we all know the kind of hell that he went through. And you can see it all over his face in the sort of horror songs that he came out with a couple of years ago. So you can't survive the music industry in your current form, bro.
[0:46:49] Okay. That raised a little bit of defenses, too. Yeah.
[0:46:53] And I'm saying not because you can't in the long run, but in your current incarnation, you get someone around who's like your dad. that you're going to defer because that's the habit, right? And if you have talent, you will attract people like your father. I mean, Elvis with his manager, the colonel or whatever his name was. I mean, work the guy to death. More drugs, more drugs, more drugs, more drugs. Sensitive soul like Michael Jackson got eaten alive by the music industry and the media and all of that. To the point where he's taking the drugs that normally put you out for surgery in order to try and get some unconsciousness. And he'd gone 40 days without healthy sleep. I mean, it's enough to drive you insane.
[0:47:40] So my current state, my mindset, my voice, all of this is because I don't have enough anger.
[0:47:49] Yeah. I mean, you have the anger, but the anger is used against yourself to keep you submissive so you don't get killed. But if you have the habit of submitting under threat and you are producing songs worth millions of dollars a year, people will threaten you and take your songs. I mean, I'm sure you know the story of Meatloaf and Bat Out of Hell and all the lawsuits that just made him not even want to get out of bed in the morning. Just crazy numbers of lawsuits that came in after the success of Bat Out of Hell. I mean, he never really recovered from that.
[0:48:27] Yeah. Wow.
[0:48:30] So how can you succeed when succeeding will bring people like your father back in your life? You just got rid of one. Why would you want to bring more in?
[0:48:41] So then it's...
[0:48:43] And sorry, I say this with great humility. You're in your 20s?
[0:48:49] Yes, early 20s.
[0:48:51] Early 20s, I can absolutely guarantee you without the shadow of a doubt that I in no way, shape or form would have succeeded or survived. Sorry, I could not have survived any success I had in the art world in my 20s. I would have been eaten alive. So I say this with great humility. You're way further ahead than I was at your age. And I myself, this is one of the reasons why the mecosystem abandoned me in my dream of artistic success, is that if I had been very productive in terms of art, I would have been destroyed. And again, I'm not saying that's the case for you in any foundational way or in any predictive way. I'm just saying that right now, I think your mecosystem understands that if you start producing great value in the music world, let's say you write the next Bad Out of Hell album, that the predators will sense your deference and take it all from you in horrible ways. And you will end up right back where you started with bullies in control of your life. That's my guess.
[0:50:07] Well, that's just so fascinating because I wanted to label, you know, my laziness or My indecisiveness is bad, but now in that way, it's protecting me, right?
[0:50:18] Sure. I mean, you know, the number of artists who get destroyed by fame. And the younger, the worse.
[0:50:31] Yes.
[0:50:32] I mean, Prince hated the music industry. Tattooed Slave on his forehead. George Michael hated the music industry. Refused to do music for 20 years before he died, in terms of I don't think he wrote much original stuff and so on. Because he just hated the music industry and how it preyed upon a people. It's one of the reasons why it's very tough to sustain creativity in music. It's because your creativity brings predators to pillage and exploit you. And you hate your creativity because it invites all the people back into your life that you spent your entire young adulthood getting away from. And then, but they have legal control over you for a variety of reasons, which your parents don't. So it's even worse.
[0:51:31] Yeah.
[0:51:32] Well, so I'm taking your skills and abilities very seriously. Everybody wants the success, but what comes with the success is people who want to prey upon you, people who will threaten you, people who will bully you, people who will sue you. I mean, the guy who was one of the members of Men at Work ended up, if I remember rightly, killing himself because of an endless lawsuit about the originality of the song versus some kookaburra song or something like that, one of their songs. I mean, there's a reason why Billy Joel was a hopeless drunk for many years.
[0:52:13] Do you think that if you hadn't realized your anger fully and were fully aware of your situation before you started your philosophy show, that it would have ended in the same route of being taken advantage of?
[0:52:25] Absolutely. Yeah, because I would have been offered a whole bunch of things as the devil does, right? I would have been offered, oh, you know, and I got some of these offers early on. You know, you're really talented, but you need is a full studio system behind you. We're going to build your stuff. We're going to promote you. We're going to blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And people offer you all this stuff in the same way that people offer, oh, we want to make a documentary that's sympathetic to you. And then you get involved in some documentary and it turns out to be a total hit job. I mean, this has happened to a bunch of people in the space. Mike Cernovich, Lauren Southern, Lindsay Shepard. She just talked about this in a video recently. And it's kind of brutal people will pretend to be your friend some people will pretend to be it's crazy man i've heard stories from people i truly believe that someone has been their friend, for over two years just to pull a 180 and produce a hit job come over for dinner oh it's so sympathetic you've got such a lovely family blah blah blah i can't believe what people are doing to you for two years or more just to turn around and produce a hit job. Oh, it's bad. It's bad.
[0:53:51] And without that awareness, I mean, this is just, without that awareness, it would have led you down that route. With the anger realized, with everything realized through this path of philosophy. It's like everything becomes sustainable instead of your mecosystem pushing against you for wanting to do something or have a goal. Because that's what it's continued to do for me in terms of like you said, it's just funny.
[0:54:26] You get very abstract. Do you have, at this point in your life, do you have the ego strength to resist predatory exploitation coming from every direction?
[0:54:39] No.
[0:54:41] I don't think so. And that's no insult at all. Because, I mean, you're just on the goal or process of getting exploitive or abusive people out of your life. What happens if somebody offers you a giant tour and recording contract? All your dreams come true. What happens? I think you would go for it and then they would probably own you now you might say no no no i would go through the contract with a fine-tooth comb and blah blah blah blah and say yeah yeah but there's people who weaponize the legal system who don't have any interest whatsoever in what's actually in the contract and they'll say to you they'll say oh yeah yeah i mean yeah i'm gonna do this yeah you listen you can totally fight the contract yeah you can you can hold up the contract and you can say, oh, he's a bad guy. He's not doing what's in the contract. And maybe in five or 10 years after you spend half a million dollars in legal fees, you might even win. You might even win. Is that what you want to do?
[0:55:46] That sounds like misery.
[0:55:48] Right. Because we all think that the contract is magical or some sort of self-enforcing thing. You know, spoiler, it's not. It's barely even a suggestion sometimes. Because a contract is only good as the honor of the person who signs it. And if the person who signs it has no honor, they'll just take stuff. And, you know, again, maybe you'll win and maybe you can spend five or 10 years or whatever. I mean, I remember the first time that I wanted to pursue legal action. I have at various times in my life and to with varying degrees of success, sometimes it's worked, but it's always a challenge. But yeah, I remember getting advice from a lawyer in my early 30s, long time ago now. And he's like, oh, yeah, I think you could win this case, but it's going to be five to 10 years and at least half a million dollars. Right. So even if you go through the contract with a fine tooth comb and let's say somebody violates the contract. Well, I mean, again, you could take him to court. You can fight, fight, fight. They'll file endless motions and delay and blah, blah, blah. I think Gavin McGinnis has been at the SPLC for what, six years now.
[0:57:00] And maybe in the end you'll win. But what happens to you know your creativity in the meantime or you're right because you don't know if you're going to win or maybe you'll lose even if it seems fine even if you you know it's pretty clear that they didn't do the contract right or they cheated or maybe you'll lose and then you get to pay all their legal fees as well and then they countersue you for recovery of expenses right who knows right, so you have to have really great judgment if you're successful and know who you can be in business with and who you can't. And you have to be unbribeable. And that takes a great team, and it takes a great deal of ego strength. Now, brother, you've got it. You can get it. You can get it, but I'm not sure you have it yet.
[0:57:49] I think this is one of our best calls that we've had yet because just the defenses keep coming up of like, I'm trying to stay in the conversation and I am listening to you, but it's like wanting to because you're just hitting these points and they're so true and I'm just wanting to evade right now.
[0:58:10] And I understand that and I say this out of a deep respect to your artistic abilities I have no doubt you can achieve what you want, what you dream of in the music world, I have no doubt. I mean, there's a fair amount of treachery, didn't I think it was Paul McCartney who taught Michael Jackson about all these music rights. And then didn't Michael Jackson end up buying up all the Beatles music rights outbidding him? I don't know, something like that. And maybe that was bad. Maybe that wasn't. I don't know. But I don't know that it's super honorable in the way that I would look at things, but that's my point. That I think that part of you is saying that you have the talent and the ability and the drive to succeed fantastically. Are you ready? Are you ego ready for the pressure and the predation that is going to descend upon you if you get what you want?
[0:59:17] So I don't need to... there's no part of the mecosystem where I need to label as bad.
[0:59:25] No!
[0:59:25] Like...
[0:59:26] No, no! It's not bad. No.
[0:59:28] Because that's what i was doing in the past.
[0:59:30] Yeah so it's like if you get sick you get tired, right?
[0:59:35] Right.
[0:59:36] And why do you get tired? Because your body needs... well, for two reasons one you shouldn't be out there infecting everyone else and two your body needs energy to fight the infection, right? Okay, so is it bad that you're tired? Nope, it's just part of the... So I don't view any part of the mecosystem as bad. It's all there to help protect and save me. And right now, if you say, I'm losing focus, I'm losing concentration, I'm stalling out. Maybe that's because if you get what you want, you will get preyed upon. Now, I mean, I wrote a whole book about this called The God of Atheists, which if you haven't read, you should read. When I succeeded in the business world, all the predators, all the vultures came swooping and swarming in. And I could not win that battle. Partly for just authority, legal contract reasons, partly for still relative youth and inexperience. But it is tough, man. you can get what you want, and then what?
[1:00:46] And all the mecosystem is asking for me now is just to be aware of this, to not label it as bad, but just to be aware of it and to let it continually inform my decision making.
[1:00:58] Right, because I was struck earlier the conscious part of you was like well I want this I want to do the music. I want it. Fantastic, you know, good for you, that's great. What's the counter argument? Are you ready? To gain success and retain integrity is a very hard thing to do because success breeds predation. And a lot of time, the same insecurity that drives people's successes, right, to prove something, to make something of yourself, to prove people wrong, the same insecurities that drive these successes also drive submission to predation. Right? Let's say that a great producer wants to take over your album and do things to you, to the album, that you think are bad. Could you stand by your album? Could you stand by your judgment? Let's say he threatens to sue you. Let's say you have a contractual obligation. Let's say you get bullied the fuck out of and he reminds you of your dad. What happens?
[1:02:06] I just bring back the relationship that I tried to leave for 20 years. I just roll over, you know, if I don't have the ego strength.
[1:02:15] Right, right.
[1:02:17] Deal with that.
[1:02:19] Can you succeed without requiring people's approval? It's tough because part of success is pleasing people, right? I mean, what I do in my show has to be at least pleasing to some people. So you have to care about pleasing people but you have to be willing to enormously displease people.
[1:02:40] I can apply that that to almost every goal that I've had that I've failed on where it's like it, If it's an outward show of success, whether it's like I talked about in my doc before we started this, like going to the gym or eating right or losing weight or anything like that, it's more than just the music thing that's specific to it. I'm being protected in all these places from people around me who, if I were to get that success in any realm that I have a goal in, I would just end up getting bullied, right? I mean, it doesn't, it can be extrapolated to not the music thing, but any goal that I have that is outward, outwardly successful.
[1:03:23] Right.
[1:03:24] Okay. And it's, it's just, I want that anger. I want that.
[1:03:31] It's like, yeah, so you have that, sorry, you have that anger. You have access to that anger. You have access to that certainty and that security. Then you can succeed, and they won't prey on you, because they'll smell it. They'll know it. You'll be like Howard Rourke, not Peter Keating, if you know the Fountainhead, right? So you can then succeed, and people won't fuck with you. But you've got to have that first. Otherwise, your success leads to failure.
[1:04:02] Wow. I mean, I think that's just the step. and I'm kind of fogging up. I don't know where to go.
[1:04:16] No, no, that's fine. I mean, we don't have to have a super long chat because, I mean, it's a lot of data being pushed through the bandwidth here. But yeah, don't assume that your reticence, your hesitation, your lack of ambition or your lack of drive, don't assume that's negative or laziness or inattentiveness or I'm just procrastinating and so on. Say, do I have the strength to survive the predation that comes with success?
[1:04:47] Yeah, this is the most that I've emotionally responded to a call that we've had.
[1:04:52] I'll go you one step further if you like.
[1:04:55] Yeah, I love that.
[1:04:56] It's in particular because you're going to take on voluntarism, peaceful parenting, and child abuse in your music. Do you know how much rage and hostility that is going to generate if you're successful?
[1:05:14] An incredible amount.
[1:05:16] An incredible amount. Are you ready to return to your childhood?
[1:05:24] I felt like a total lift from my stomach to my sternum when you said that. Not until I have the anger, no, I'm not ready.
[1:05:39] I mean, for me, success was being pushed back into my childhood. In my childhood, people unjustly attacked me and put me down and threatened me with violence. What happened when I was successful?
[1:05:55] A lot of, well, you mentioned New Zealand and Australia being one of the big ones for...
[1:06:01] Well, that was the more obvious stuff. But yeah, bomb threats, death threats, escalations, lies, verbal abuse, reputational damage and attack, like all of this sort of stuff, right? So when I succeeded, I was pushed back into my childhood. And that's sort of the purpose of what that stuff is all for, right? And I had to be robust enough to shoulder my way forward and continue.
[1:06:29] Yes now if i'd had success when i was younger well there's a reason a lot of successful people turn to drugs and that's because the stress of predation and attacks particularly if you're not just doing you know i've often sort of thought that if there was some famous British songwriter who put together an absolutely beautiful song lamenting the current state of England, you know free speech issues demographic issues and so on right i just put it together beautifully some oasis or um whatever right i mean it would be crazy because the song would be on everyone's lips people would be singing it passionately and so on right and it would drive the authorities completely mad and that person would get completely aggressed against and they'd probably try to jail them. I mean, Eric Clapton got vax injured, according to Eric Clapton, right, from the COVID "vaccine." And he wrote a song or two about it. And he's been dropped from the top 25 best guitarists and he can't get tours anymore. I don't even know if he can play anymore. I don't know if he's better or not, but.
[1:07:39] Yeah, I think.
[1:07:41] And that's Eric Clapton. He's God, man. He's an institution since the 60s.
[1:07:47] Yeah, that's God.
[1:07:50] Imagine starting out with that. You write a song that triggers child abusers and empowers the victims of child abuse. What happens to you if you get what you want and you're as good as you want to be? What happens? And I'm just, I'm not telling you don't do it, man. Do it. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. But I don't want you to have any illusions about what's on the other side. You'll do a great deal of good. You'll make a good chunk of money. You'll be famous and infamous and you'll be loved and hated. And people will sense, even if they didn't have things like this call, people will sense the shadow of your father and they will work to bring that to life to control you. They will step into the shadow of your father, fully in the flesh, no escape, legal tentacles, legal shackles, money, punishment, threats. You'll never work in this town again. Like, that's a real thing. And, you know, you may need a good woman by your side. You may need a better friend group. You may need more therapy. Like, you got to be ready. That's the Olympics, man. I have no doubt you can get there but i just want you to know so that you're not blindsided.
[1:09:12] My first thought was was you know what we're talking about here what i have a real passion to do and anybody involved in this conversation who's championing peaceful parenting and and uh breaking the style the cycle of child abuse it's like that's that's the hero's journey for anybody in this conversation for you and what you've done through Freedomain to what I'm proposing and passionate about doing and, then I wanted to shut it down in my own mind by saying that's corny but it's like that's the truth it is a Luke Skywalker return and fight your father style, journey, a hero's journey Yeah.
[1:10:02] Except we only hear from the heroes who make it, and there's lots who don't. I'm not saying you'd be one of them, but the hero's journey implies that you're going to win. And I mean, the best I've been able to achieve the world is a draw, which is not bad. I'm okay with a draw. I'm okay. Like I'm still going, uh, much diminished, much less money, whatever, blah, blah, blah, but I'm not dead. So it's a draw and I'm, you know, I'm, I'm content with the draw. When you take on the whole world, a draw is pretty much as good as you're going to get.
[1:10:36] Yeah um yeah... I, I don't.... I, that you you've given me so much as always, uh, working through this together. And, um, I, I just don't know where where to go from here i think this is so much to...
[1:10:49] Yeah, I mean honestly, my suggestion would be just sort of meditate. You can write shit down with regards to your dad. You got to meditate winning against your dad. You got to meditate on winning against your dad. Whatever it takes to win against your dad. I've talked about the violence that I fantasized about with my mother and so on. So you have to meditate, I think, on whatever it's going to take to win against your dad. You start winning against your dad, you start embracing that anger, then it's like, oh, you can protect yourself. I don't need to keep protecting you. And then you get "stand down" and the security guard can become a backup dancer, or something like that, if that makes sense.
[1:11:30] Yeah. Or a voice pathologist or something.
[1:11:34] Maybe not pathologist, but a voice coach?
[1:11:36] Voice coach. There we go. Something to work on.
[1:11:39] The pathologist thing was telling to you. But yeah, if I were in your shoes, do not be in a hurry to succeed. Do not be, have the, make sure you have the alertness, the anger, the access to anger, the access to a support system in order that when you become successful, you can resist the demons that feast on any accumulation of gold and value in the creative world.
[1:12:09] Okay. Okay. I, I really appreciate this, Stef, and I, I hope this was beneficial for other people. Um, yeah, just, just thank you so much.
[1:12:18] You're very welcome and listen i hope you'll keep me posted and i i i say this with immense respect for your creative talents which are uh enormous and uh you know, it's it's one thing to win, it's another thing to continue to win, and that's what i want for you.
[1:12:36] Alright, thank you, Stef, I really appreciate it.
[1:12:38] All the best, keep me posted, good night.
[1:12:40] Good night, bye.
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