1:10 - Struggling for Connection
1:49 - Childhood Trauma Unveiled
2:26 - The Burden of Expectations
6:23 - Navigating Toxic Relationships
16:33 - Current Relationship Dynamics
30:41 - The OnlyFans Experience
48:16 - Patterns of Attraction
49:17 - Seeking Guidance
55:38 - Financial Dependency Issues
1:00:21 - Confronting Harsh Realities
1:04:21 - Emotional Attachments and Dependencies
1:08:46 - Future Family Planning
1:11:19 - Job Opportunities and Skills
1:12:15 - Starting Your Own Business
1:13:10 - The Impact on Children
1:14:47 - Navigating Social Stigma
1:15:39 - The Cycle of Bullying
1:17:35 - Understanding Emotional Abuse
1:23:22 - Financial Reality Check
1:48:07 - Verbal Abuse in Relationships
2:02:59 - Seeking Help Through Therapy
In this episode, I engage in a deep conversation with a caller who opens up about her struggles with depression, loneliness, and complicated relationships. At 26 years old, she discusses feeling lost in her life after moving to Canada from India and highlights her tumultuous experiences with family, friendships, and romantic partners. The caller reveals that she has been semi-dating a man who is 16 years older, but they have faced significant challenges, including unsuccessful attempts to live together and a lack of emotional support.
As she shares her past, it becomes evident that her childhood was marred by abuse, with her father being physically and emotionally abusive, and her mother enabling this behavior. The caller reflects on how these experiences led to social anxiety and fears of abandonment. She expresses a desire for lasting friendships and a stable family life but feels trapped in a cycle of negative thoughts and unfulfilling relationships.
Throughout our conversation, I guide her to examine her current relationship dynamics. She describes her boyfriend as someone who offers practical support, yet the emotional aspect is fraught with name-calling and insults during conflicts. This has led her to question whether she is caught in a familiar pattern of abuse, echoing the trauma from her childhood. We delve into the complexities of her feelings, exploring if her attachment is based on seeking validation rather than genuine connection.
The caller is also dealing with the aftermath of a previous relationship involving OnlyFans, which she began partially as rebellion against her upbringing. We discuss the emotional toll of that choice, her current financial situation, and how it affects her relationship with her boyfriend. Despite recognizing the need for change, she wrestles with options and feels a lack of direction.
As we delve deeper into her relationship with her boyfriend, I emphasize the importance of emotional safety and express my concern over verbal abuse, encouraging her to seek therapy to address her unresolved trauma and emotional needs. The conversation reveals a critical need for her to prioritize her well-being and consider her long-term happiness over immediate comforts.
In closing, I remind her that while relationships can offer support, they should never come at the cost of her dignity and mental health. I encourage her to seek professional help and to take a more assertive stance in her life, drawing from the insights gained during our discussion. The episode ultimately unfolds as a heartfelt exploration of healing, self-discovery, and the steps necessary to break free from cycles of abuse and emotional turmoil.
[0:00] Hi Stef i really admire your guidance to people here i'm 26 years old female and i've been feeling lost and depressed for one and a half years now i've wanted to date and caps but so far it hasn't worked out i am semi dating a guy right now who is 16 years older and cap and we admire each other's values but we've tried living together twice and it did not work out and went horribly um i'm ranged from my parents and past friends because of disagreements on morality i moved to i moved to canada over a year ago well actually i think it's like been two years by now but anyway and ever since i've been on my own and ever since i have been on my own but haven't made any lasting friends or connections acquaintances fall out because they're usually appalled at my ncap ideas, only connection i semi have is this current dad that i'm seeing and although i feel abandoned and neglected or uncared for i cling on to him out of loneliness and fear of being alone.
[1:11] Um i've started to feel like i've i'll never have lasting friendships or, family or kids and the kind of life that i've always expected some that would come to me easily i'm still dealing with some flashbacks or habits or ptsd from my childhood but i don't want to go through life's ordeals all alone um i have had social anxiety and fear of people but recently i've been working on it to make it a bit better but i want your guidance because i don't want to waste more time living life wrong.
[1:49] Well, that's sorry, is that the end?
[1:53] Yeah.
[1:54] Okay, I really appreciate the honesty of that. Do you want to tell me a little bit about your childhood and what happened with your family?
[2:04] My childhood was really bad. My dad was physically, emotionally abusive. My mom, I think she hit me on occasions, like I think maybe three times in total. I don't remember exactly how many times, but she was already negligent.
[2:26] um she enabled my dad's abuse and yeah my dad was he did a lot of damage and um i i grew up like just it was just me and my parents and i didn't have any friends like there was there were like know other people involved most of the time and um yeah i was bullied in school like all the time.
[2:59] Um i i was always anxious i was always like uh unsure of myself i was like i had a low self-esteem for most of my life i think like i started i started getting a lot of realizations about um what's actually going on like until i was like i think 17 18 i was in a bubble but then i got access to the internet at like 18 and i started talking to other people and that's when i, I realized that my dad is a problem and he's actually abusive. This is not okay. I mean, I knew before, but I didn't really... I thought it was me. I internalized a lot of things. I thought that he was abusive because maybe I'm not good at anything.
[3:57] It sounds ridiculous now, but yeah, at the time, I really believed that. But then 18 onwards, I started protesting and rebelling slightly. And as years went by, I kept protesting and rebelling more. And yeah, the abuse got worse initially. But then my dad just started kicking me out of the house every other month.
[4:27] And it was like fake, but I would have to leave the house, but he will always take me back like I have nowhere to go I would usually go to my uncle's place and they were not the best people, but, they were also enablers and They would like pretend to help me by sheltering me for a few days And then it'd be like you have to study you have to go back Yeah, you like what are you gonna do once you finish your degree? you'll uh you'll be on your own then until then you have to like put up with it but i didn't want to do this degree i was actually my dad forced me to finish like he's got me into college which i didn't want to go to uh so yeah it was it was really fucked ever since i went to college it was like i didn't want to be there i was miserable um so yeah and then when i was like 24 we moved and i grew up in india and then we moved out of india and we came to canada and then my parents went back twice they couldn't really fit here uh they didn't like the change and now i think there's like thinking of coming back i'm not really sure i'm not in contact but i i tried to get contact like a couple times, but i would like get really lonely and then.
[5:56] Yeah i think i initiated contact like once in like once last year because i was actually really lonely, but i knew that i hated them and.
[6:12] What was your degree in.
[6:13] It was uh in medicine okay.
[6:18] Okay and it was like an undergraduate and have you continued or have you stopped.
[6:23] I well i tried to flunk several times i flunked every semester every semester at least once if not twice thrice but my dad like made it really miserable i just long story short i ended up finishing it um well actually he also bribed someone once i think to help me finish the degree it was very fucked but yeah i did finish the degree but i don't want to practice as a doctor i didn't want to do it from the start and more so because he wanted me to do it now i don't want to do it.
[7:00] Right so oh so he bribed to get you to sort of move ahead that was your experience.
[7:08] Yeah but yeah among other things like making me more miserable and i mean i think i would have studied it would have been easier on me if he was not this abusive if the environment at home was not that bad but it was and he knew what to do but he didn't make it any easier and then every time i would flunk he would he would i think a few times i did try to pass but i couldn't because it was too late i hadn't really studied like the first couple semesters and when i did try it wouldn't work and it was hopeless because i couldn't study right.
[7:51] Now you said that your father forced you to do this and what um how did he force you what happened.
[8:00] Well so uh he was involved in my academics from the start basically and he would always most of the beatings were do done like under the excuse of um teaching me and he still thinks that he should take credit for my like academic achievements because it was because of him uh because he was disciplined and strict and i don't i mean it's like i don't know who believes that but anyway i don't know how he expects people to believe that but uh yeah so i was like 17 but before that uh we had to do like two years of uh preparation like we had to give like entrance exams and stuff to get into medical colleges so i was basically uh i have no choice i had to follow his and i did tell him when i was 15 14 or 15 that i didn't i didn't see myself being a doctor and he had all the plans of my life laid out like you will be a doctor you'll come back from your clinic uh after you work hard and then and he he thinks he's a singer and he's very delusional.
[9:25] Because he's bad he's not maybe i think in his youth because he was quite decent but.
[9:31] Oh he's not good at all and he always and i was like a little bit talented at instruments and like music and i was a little better than him so i could teach him i could correct him, and when i was a kid this wasn't i was a kid and i did because back then i used to think that my dad is actually my dad he's he's good he it was delusional too on my part but uh yeah he had all these plans i told him i don't i don't see myself doing that and i remember we were in the car uh in his car and i was in the back seat right behind him and when he was driving and he tried to reach reach over behind his seat and uh like hit me wherever he could, just for saying that i don't want i don't i don't agree with his plans about me, And I was actually scared. I thought this is it because.
[10:35] I don't see myself getting out of this. And so I thought I just convinced myself that it's not so bad. Maybe I'm on it. And like, yeah, I was like 17. I, Managed to get to like a medical college and he paid a lot of fees too because in India the Seeds are like it. You don't have you don't get a seat very easily Unless you're a reservation person. There's these different categories of people that they favor and If you don't have super high, grades, you can't you need to you need to pay like more fees to get it so that's what he did and then the next six ish years he kept telling me he kept abusing not abusing but sort of abusing me because uh yeah i was over 18 the next six years um but i tried to escape but yeah i got really discouraged and yeah.
[11:49] So he always kept bringing up the fees and how much he's done for me and i can't even pass an exam but it was not about the exam it was about him just wanting to make other people miserable because i remember i could i couldn't have friends i couldn't use my phone even when i I was 20-something and he would go through everything, even my notes, even everything. If I had little sketches, he would yell and throw me out of the house. because i was supposed to not sketch i'm supposed to study it was very miserable i remember since i was a kid i would be forced to be in my room and only have my textbooks with me and i spent from dawn till late evening and until dinner time just studying but eventually i i was not really studying I would just, I don't know, stare at the wall. I was really miserable.
[12:58] I'm so sorry. That's terrible. And do you have many siblings?
[13:03] No. No, I'm just a single child.
[13:06] Okay. And do you know why your parents didn't have any siblings for you?
[13:13] Oh, you're going to like this one. Because my parents, I saw them try getting siblings for me. like they would have sex with me for like i saw them having sex beside me every other night like for a decade straight and sorry what do you mean beside you i was forced to sleep in the same bed until i was i'm embarrassed to say like 17 maybe 18 i don't know because my dad didn't let me sleep separately he would always make an excuse like you're gonna run the other ceiling fan it's gonna to add up to the electricity bill and it's something really dumb because he we were not poor but yeah i'm pretty sure we were not poor he always he could have fought luxury cars and all that but yeah and uh i think my mom had one miscarriage they never really told me much about the sibling story okay.
[14:11] Got it and what happened with uh the break with your parents Was there anything in particular that happened that caused that?
[14:20] The break?
[14:21] Yeah, you're not in contact with your family at the moment. Is that right?
[14:24] Oh, yeah. Well, I always wanted to leave them forever for good. Like, I used to, like, daydream, you know, plan my escape. Like, as soon as I get away from them, I'm never talking to them again. they're out of my life i'm going to try and get over everything but because i really hate them and i have but yeah like now i feel like i'm safe sometimes i miss the fake safety i had but yeah like i always wanted to not talk to them.
[15:12] Uh and i also tried to um uh confront them like i think ever since i think even at 18, i started telling my dad that he's abusive and i at the time like until i was 20 like maybe from 18 to 20 21 i i believed that my mom was also a victim along with me because she was also abused by my dad uh occasionally well i think a couple times like dozens of them i think over over my life but, uh i thought that she was on my side and i told her that we should just leave him and just live on our own i was naive back then but then i saw instances where she actually um put me in trouble and enabled abuse and she favored abuse and and every time i feel like weak towards my mom i remind myself of these examples so uh yeah and then i was convinced that they're both uh equally, evil, and I have to leave them.
[16:34] I'm so sorry, again, about all of this. And what are you doing in your life at the moment?
[16:40] So right now, I just moved in with my boyfriend. Yeah, but we don't have a great relationship. I keep telling myself it's going to get better with time, but I'm not sure. i'm also struggling with ptsd like he doesn't think it's it's real like i don't feel exactly same um but but yeah like a lot of the times i would my body will especially like my shoulders I feel unsafe when there's conflict. I feel he's emotionally not able to give me safety.
[17:31] And where did you meet your boyfriend?
[17:35] It was in 2021 on Omegle, and it was a thing. And just randomly, I used to talk to a lot of strangers online, like just desperate to find connection. But then one time I happened to come across him, and I was really struck by him. I fell in love because he saw me. he was the first guy and he's really a great guy in that way he he told me about morality like he put a label to all the things that i always believed in so he told me about ncap, and um he also confronted his parents um he he was the first i think he was the first guy who actually told me that my parents are evil what they did was evil, so yeah there were a few air flags but they like the good things were like worth it to keep talking then.
[18:47] Yeah keep going.
[18:50] So in 2021 I was in India, and I was in India for the next two years so we moved in 2023 and uh there were these reflect i didn't feel like he took me seriously he didn't he wasn't making plans to see me he he assumed that i was going to come to canada but it was going to be a while like years but i it just felt like he did not he dismissed my struggles, sometimes with circumstances or people and then was like okay uh and i was a bit immature, uh i haven't always been really mature and i thought okay well he's going to regret it and i just i decided to give another guy a chance who i also met online um he told me he was an anarchist he said like good principled things a few things and he is not the worst person but um, Yeah, he had far worse red flags, I think. And then I started dating that guy.
[20:08] And I dumped him last year. And he has been going berserk. He's actually a hazard. I don't know what to say. And these are my choices.
[20:23] Sorry, you said he's going berserk? Like stalking? What do you mean?
[20:27] Yeah so with that guy like i have always been rebellious and i wanted to punish my parents but not just that i also wanted to rebel against my culture and um just spite people and also, yeah those are the top two reasons and he was i don't exactly know i think he wanted to get rich and i didn't consider only fans before but he and i started only fans while we were long distance, i'm sorry sorry i'm a.
[21:05] I'm a bit of an old guy so you're kind of racing through a whole new.
[21:08] Territory for.
[21:10] Me which is fine but uh so you this is the not the man you're currently living with but another man you met online.
[21:16] Who you.
[21:18] And he started only fans while you were long distance.
[21:23] Yeah so basically i think only fans is banned in india so i couldn't start it myself but i gave him my id and all that so that he could start an only fans from he was in romania and only fans from romania and i didn't have much like access like i didn't have a computer i didn't have a computer all my life because I had a lot of restrictions and I couldn't really do much.
[21:54] Well, I mean, if you end up starting an OnlyFans, some of those restrictions might be understandable, right?
[22:01] Well, I don't think that's why I had those restrictions. My dad just didn't want me to talk to anyone.
[22:09] Okay, sorry. So the guy you started the OnlyFans with, is there an age gap? no okay no you're both in your 20s or whatever right.
[22:18] It was like 30 and i was 24.
[22:21] Okay so a bit of an age gap all right so uh without getting into graphic detail, what do you do with only fans when you are long distance.
[22:37] So basically i didn't really okay so i because we were in a relationship i would send him uh, pictures and videos of myself like uh ns fw uh yeah and he told like he jokingly mentioned only fans a few times i guess he was following only fans for a while but it was new to me And I was always looking for excuses to embarrass my parents or rebel against these prude friends of mine. And they were all not good people anyway. So I thought this is a good way to make my parents embarrassed and be even more of a disgrace. And I said, okay, maybe we should do it then. And he, yeah, he was on board. And he made the account. So all of the stuff, like talking to other people, like DMing people and posting content, everything was done by him.
[23:44] Sorry, so did he contribute content or was it just you?
[23:50] Yeah, it was only me.
[23:52] Okay, so help me understand that, I mean, that's a pretty big decision, right? I assume, I mean, was your face visible or were you identifiable?
[24:02] Well i did not have a problem with my face being visible but he did because he he didn't want his girlfriend to be seen naked but he obviously that was a dumb thing like because uh when he would dm people like my my face could be unlocked with money so people did have access but he's not a smart guy and i guess maybe he is smart he just wanted to make money that way he was just being uh being money minded um but yeah, yeah i think that's it and he so i didn't like this i didn't like that he was pretending to be me and doing it but he he he convinced me because he said that these people are not good people anyway so i said perhaps but then we should counsel them but but eventually yeah i was i I agreed, but yeah, and he took half the money because he said that he worked on it, but it was only because he didn't want me to talk to other guys, or do I say myself. So I didn't mind. For me, it was enough that I'm out there.
[25:24] Sorry, he kept the money, is that right?
[25:29] Half of it, yeah.
[25:30] Okay, he kept half the money. Okay, got it. all right uh so sorry go ahead.
[25:36] So so yeah after so he was a crazy guy he was uh trying to take down pictures from google um using the dnc laws or whatever and uh i don't believe in ip laws, i told him not to do it he was and also he was keeping secrets from me like uh it was really.
[26:00] And because he was online i guess he managed to hide hide a bunch of things in his real beliefs maybe he just said that to get with me that he was principled but i was i was not willing to give him more chances and i broke up with him and also my now boyfriend who i met in 2021 he i had kept contact with him but i ended up missing him so much because i was with the worst guy and i.
[26:34] I yeah i reached out to him one time and i i had really missed him how sane he was and, that is why eventually months later i broke up with the romanian guy and he didn't take it well he yeah he actually went crazy he ended up um leaking quote-unquote on my all my stuff all my content everything online including my real name my i think my friends my parents uh, which whatever i guess if you put stuff out out there it's going to happen but what i was not okay with was him leaking my address and yeah yeah that was where i really got worried and there was no chance of redemption from there for him and sorry how long ago was that.
[27:36] It was last year it was like in uh like december last year i think and did.
[27:43] He did he threaten to do that wanting.
[27:46] To stay together.
[27:46] Or he just did that after you broke up.
[27:49] I think that he it was implied that if i dated or dated him again then uh i my secrets were safe with him um, but i don't know what he was thinking i think he he's self-destructive himself he's like after i got to know him i met him once i think also i think it was this year and, i realized that he's actually not this collected uh rational guy that i lied myself to that he was.
[28:30] He's actually very self-destructive I think even now he tries to spam me even yesterday and today he has no life every other day he's spamming me sorry how is he making more threats, yeah i mean just he he's all talk he's he's a really skinny guy i don't think he could hurt me but he's dangerous because he can do stuff online like leak my address but basically just great insults and now he's been dming my friends my content and i don't know how he thinks it's a problem because i don't like those people anyway they but uh and also saying that he's going to punch me if he sees me next and punch my boyfriend he's crazy gosh.
[29:27] I'm uh i'm sorry to hear about all of that that's uh that's a lot to deal with and.
[29:34] Yeah but it's my fault i mean i've been uh thinking looking back on my decisions now. Yeah, it's like I want to trust myself, but this is where I end up with.
[29:51] Yeah, I mean, were you one of the people, because of course a lot of women don't make much money from OnlyFans, were you one of the people who didn't make much money?
[30:02] Well, no, I did make money. I mean, for the amount of work that I did, it was quite a lot uh i think but when you look at it it's probably less it's probably lesser than, or maybe equal to a low weight job like minimum weight job but i didn't really work much i would just it was occasional and basically i could make a thousand dollars a day i could but i didn't want to because i was not motivated by money basically oh also i started only fast not just despite my parents and friends. Also, because I wanted to meet this guy, because I didn't have any money.
[30:42] I didn't have any money when I started, because I was still in...
[30:51] I'm sorry, I just lost your audio for a sec. You said you didn't have any money because you were still in... Did you mean school?
[31:00] I finished school at that, I think, same year. I don't remember if it was during or before but yeah okay and i had made i i i was interning at the time sorry interning what do you mean uh i was interning after i finished my degree okay but i think well no internship comes first so yeah it was i had finished all my semesters and And now I was in burning.
[31:31] Oh, you mean in the medical field?
[31:33] Yeah.
[31:34] Okay, got it.
[31:35] Yeah. um so yeah uh so i also did it because i thought it was a good way to make money and fly fly overseas to meet each other because i was serious about this guy and i was desperate for a guy anyway after i left my current boyfriend at the time uh i was like okay well i can do better i can't get a guy who uh doesn't dismiss my emotions i was really hurt i was also like, i was i was exaggerating it in my head but i was unparented i i thought that uh it was really unfair the reflects were there but i don't know.
[32:26] Okay sorry i.
[32:28] I don't.
[32:28] Want to interrupt if you're if you have more to say.
[32:32] Um well only the last part after the only fans i the so he the the ex ended up like uh locking me out of most of my accounts online which was very shady he took half the money obviously i'm not sure if he took a little bit more but which is whatever as long as i can get rid of him but uh after that i tried living with my current boyfriend like i think this is the third or fourth attempt, and this time we have actually co-signed a lease and moved into this new apartment but it's not exactly great i keep feeling unsafe like i physically feel unsafe which is the worst part i i freeze and i i get flashbacks of my dad and i have told him he can help me but he's He can be pretty aggressive when he talks, and I'm not faultless, but I think if he could just fix that.
[33:42] Sorry, I was a little confused about who were you talking about and what did they fix?
[33:48] My current boyfriend. When we have disagreements, he can get pretty aggressive, like impatient, aggressive, and name-calling, which I hate. like when i was younger i i used to think oh fuck censoring yourself like you can call each other names it's okay but i'm starting to not i mean i have changed my mind since i was i was not, i was pretty toxic but i was still exploring i didn't want to be like the fake couples that i saw and i don't think that uh main calling are uh like all these things i find damaging, and they are yeah no i agree now.
[34:42] With the romanian the romanian guy and the current guy are your two major boyfriends right or major relationships.
[34:48] Yes i think the only two okay And the Romanian guy was not even in real life. This is my first real-life relationship.
[34:58] Okay. Now, with both of these men, were there any red flags or problems that you noticed ahead of time? That you look back and you say, oh, I should have really paid more attention to that?
[35:10] Yeah. Yeah. With my Romanian ex, he was very short-tempered as well. and i at the time i remember i wanted to to be traditional but it was i didn't really have a good model of traditional in my mind so i just wanted to do the opposite of what i had experienced before and i wanted the guy to deal with everything that's why i gave him control of my only friends and everything but then he ended up keeping things from me uh just locking me out of accounts not talking to me ignoring me uh and the worst part is when i would try to talk to him about.
[35:55] Friends family you know confronting them about uh like real issues like abuse or how they don't care about morality he would shut those conversations down pretty harshly and he would call me names like i was an argumentative bitch uh it was it was very weird to say he would just flip like that and yeah basically he would never want to talk about real issues and also when i confronted confronted him about what he was doing uh like i saw a few conversations on movie fans he was really taking advantage of these guys like some some sometimes it's okay they want to buy your content but sometimes these guys he would straight up buy to them which was very shady it was very scammy and yeah he was pretty toxic he wanted to be very alpha masculine like i do like andrew tate but i think he's taking away the wrong lessons from the Tate brothers. And I think he's aware of it too. And he doesn't have a life.
[37:13] Sorry, he's a what?
[37:17] Is uh oh god i don't remember what i said oh i thought you said he said.
[37:22] Did you say he's a therapist.
[37:23] No no he he's i think i said he's pathetic oh.
[37:29] Pathetic okay okay go sir.
[37:30] I think, yeah he's not taking the right lessons even so my boyfriend also teaching him helping him, like how he was not doing the right thing when he was using IP laws and also how he should confront his family.
[37:52] Well, it's pretty, I mean, for me, just from the outside, that the moral issues you have are not with OnlyFans, say, or with lying to the customers or exploiting them, but it's IP law that's your issue, not the OnlyFans as a whole.
[38:10] It was also an issue but i didn't do much about it but it was also an issue too well.
[38:16] You did do something about it in that you created and provided content right i'm not trying to be negative i'm just pointing out that you did do something about it but it's just from the outside it's it's interesting that you have an issue with ip law but not all the red flags that this guy had and him lying to customers and so on but anyway go on.
[38:34] Uh yeah i saw the problems i i hesitated it but i did not stop it uh because i was i was willing to explore his way of his ideas how he but yeah i wanted so this i saw his red flags that i think i took on his red flags too.
[38:57] Um i because he he was very he hated everyone he would always say like fuck everyone burn this world and i thought yeah yeah everyone is most people are immoral they want to hurt us so but i think we were not on the same page then i mean now i know we were not on the same page because he also was hostile to actually good people so and instead of helping people teaching them he chose to scan them and i yeah yeah it's it's my also my up in the past for supporting that, uh i ended up telling those guys i mean i ended up making posts about it how it wasn't it hasn't really being me they have been top into for the past one and a half two years uh they i think they rarely barely noticed they they're too horny to notice i think which makes me feel a little bit better that they don't care which stops but it's also like okay they don't care as long as they see me.
[40:17] Okay. So what are you doing now for income or money? You're living with your current boyfriend. Do you work?
[40:26] No so i i got really exhausted by the way i was living before uh doing only fans even if i was feeling miserable that's that's my that was my state with my ex because i had intended to actually make enough money to just travel to each other and then not do only fans afterwards because i was not really planning on doing it for a long time but uh i don't know he didn't do that we went on a long time just doing only fans he would hear my complaints my requests and he would ignore them so i got really exhausted by the end of everything and last year i just like quit doing only fans but then i was getting worried about money so maybe i would post once in a while maybe once every two months i don't know and i'm not i don't have a real life job oh but not sorry not on the.
[41:22] Um not on the old account which you don't have access to is that right.
[41:29] I i got access to those accounts i i managed to get access to them i it was it was very confrontational hard but yeah now i had access to all my accounts okay so.
[41:43] You're still doing the only fans is that right but just more occasionally.
[41:46] Yeah very occasionally i'm still unsure about my career, what I want to do.
[41:56] Okay, and do you make enough from your OnlyFans to pay your bills?
[42:01] Yeah, I have enough savings to go. Yeah, I can live for the next few months, maybe the next year with my savings.
[42:15] Okay, got it. And you said that it was about a year and a half ago you began to feel sort of anxious and depressed. Do I have that right?
[42:22] Yeah around the time that i moved to a new country and i was it was not much moving to a new country but i was on my own suddenly i i moved out of my parents placed asap, i got a few real life jobs because i wanted to see uh how really having a job is like it's not really that special um it didn't really fulfill me it only exhausted me and yeah and i have been on my own and i realized that i don't know how to how to live alone i don't know how to do chores i didn't i i learned over i learned very slowly because uh i was just the first year i was only stuck to my bed and i was bed rotting every day crying non-stop just sorry feeling really bad, and looking at my past and everything that i have been through and i was looking for proof that it's actually over sorry i'm just and uh how do i know that i'm actually safe now, So I've really struggled feeling safe.
[43:49] Now, do you mean safe from the Romanian fellow or the current boyfriend or both?
[43:54] Oh, like from my childhood experiences, because my body was mostly on panic mode all my life. And even when I went out, I was very anxious and afraid to make eye contact. act and that's also that's also something that helps me just doing only fans from my room where i don't have to talk to anyone i don't have to feel anxiety yeah being with people terrifies me and i i have been working on that i think i made some progress but it's so very slow.
[44:34] Right okay so um how safe do you feel with your current boyfriend.
[44:41] I mean, I hate saying this. I don't feel safe much. I think I feel like 30% safe and, most of the time my body is feeling very unsafe, like I'm anticipating something. That's how it feels. I feel unheard a lot of the time. He has this habit of speaking over me, not really letting me finish my sentences which is very discouraging because it's a shame because he's a really great guy he is who introduced me to you uh he shares most oh yeah i think most of your principles and he taught me so much in life like in the past four years i have grown a lot i would say i would give him credit for most of it i think half of it but uh, it sucks that i can't live with my role model because i feel like and i think it makes me regressed into being a child or how i was when i was a child like timid and scared or throwing tantrums and i can't like myself either.
[46:10] Okay. And so how long have you been together with your current boyfriend? I mean, it was a bit come and go, right? But overall.
[46:21] Yeah. So we met last year in real life when I decided to leave my Romaine ex. And I said, okay, I guess I'll give him a chance, my now boyfriend. and in real life yeah we met we met late summer last year and so i guess it's going to be about a year and i remember it was not the best he had red flags but he i have known him for four years i feel comfortable not safe but i do feel comfortable being with him um it's familiar.
[47:06] And obviously i have a lot to learn i see him and i i like i like how he can he's very resourceful he's very helpful he's done a lot for me too like we moved into this apartment it was not in a good condition he fixed a lot of things around here he's he's a hard worker he's doing something every day but when it comes to emotional safety i really don't feel safe and i've been i've been thinking of ways how i can fix it or also thinking about how maybe maybe i can leave him maybe i can do better but i i don't think i want to leave him i'm i've been wondering if it's my fault, but I don't think it's all my fault. I think it's half and half.
[47:58] Okay, and is there an age difference as well here?
[48:02] Yeah, he's 16 years older than me.
[48:06] Okay. So he's 38? So 40?
[48:13] 41? Yeah, he's 42-ish.
[48:16] Okay, and why do you think that you would be drawn to older men?
[48:26] Myself? I have always been drawn to older men, always. I guess that's just my daddy issues.
[48:36] Well, I mean, we can say that, but what does that really mean?
[48:45] Yeah. Oh God, that's so scary to realize. I think I want to keep my dad alive somehow and how I want his presence and yeah I think that's um, I think I'm scared of leaving my dad for good, probably.
[49:11] Maybe, maybe. Okay.
[49:17] Well, listen, we can focus on just about anything. Is there anything in particular you want to focus on, or is it something that you would like me to focus on, or would you like me to sort of take the lead?
[49:33] Um mainly i am feel i'm really struggling with this relationship i live with him every day uh every other day something is wrong uh so i would like to know if i can fix something i can do my part in it okay okay we.
[49:52] Can focus on that so give me an example of what is wrong oh you said on a there's something wrong give me some examples of what's wrong.
[49:58] So um i feel neglected emotionally uh i think what's wrong what i have complained about is how sometimes i will try to uh, wait give me a moment, So I keep my intrusive thoughts, I don't know, keep thinking that he doesn't really care about me, he doesn't love me. There is evidence that he does care about me, but then my mind says this is just who he is. He does favors.
[50:49] Okay, sorry, sorry, because this is all your interpretation. And I'm not saying you're wrong, but what are the facts? Right. So so if you say, I don't feel that he loves me, then there's two things. Right. One is, what does he do or not do that has you feel that way? And the second is, are there things about you that a moral man could truly be devoted to? Right. And I'm not saying there aren't or I'm just those are the two sort of questions. So what does he do or not do that gives you the feeling of not being loved?
[51:22] Okay so he currently doesn't have a job he hasn't taken me out on date and sounds shallow, but i can't stop thinking about how he he spent money on his exes and it keeps nagging me like he.
[51:41] Sorry you you want hang on hang on so you want him to spend money on you is that right.
[51:47] Yeah i mean or at least but i actually yes.
[51:52] Okay so why why would he spend money on you and not disagreeing with you i'm just trying to understand really want to just understand your thinking you want him to spend money on you and you have obviously that's a one-way street so he spends money on you i don't think you would say you know if he spends a hundred dollars on me i'll spend a hundred dollars on him so you want him to spend money on you uh in return for what like why would why would he spend money on you.
[52:14] So i think that i oh that's a good question i think that i have i do provide uh trust and safety i i.
[52:29] Know maybe no no no that's it we we would assume that that's equal right yes right so a trust and safety is very abstract like i can't i can you imagine me sending a bill out to some customer or client saying, oh, trust and safety, you know, $1,000, right? That wouldn't make a lot of sense, right? So the reason I'm saying this, of course, is that do you know the traditional reason why men give money to women?
[52:58] Probably for their babies so they can thrive.
[53:00] Yeah, because the women are home, raising the babies, making, you know, the next generation, running the household and all of that. So you're not doing that, right?
[53:10] Not yet. I do want to, but not yet.
[53:13] Well, I mean, not yet. You know, I mean, I don't get paid until I start the job, right? So saying I'm going to start the job in three years, but I want to be paid now, doesn't make much sense, right?
[53:22] You're right. Yeah. yeah however um ever since i've met him like in real life i met him actually even online so i knew that he didn't have a job even back then he had been living off of his savings um and after that he was living at his sister's and he's a very low maintenance guy very low and um which is fine But then I felt like maybe he should have prepared to date me. Like, when he started dating...
[53:55] Okay, hang on. So, no, we're back in abstract land here, and I don't know what you're talking about. So, you want him to spend money on you, but why? Why should he spend, why should he give money to you? Like, if you were just his roommate.
[54:07] If you were just his.
[54:08] Hang on, if you were just his roommate, right, and you weren't sexually involved or romantically involved, then it wouldn't make sense to say well I mean I'm his roommate he should spend money on me right so why should he spend money on you.
[54:23] I think he should at least cover the rent, because ever since I've met him, I've paid for almost everything.
[54:31] Oh, you're paying his bills?
[54:32] Even the rent. Yeah.
[54:35] Oh, I'm sorry, I didn't know that. So you're paying all of his bills based upon your income from OnlyFans and savings, is that right?
[54:45] Right. And also, he does pay every now and then for a bunch of groceries. it's very super okay.
[54:54] So why are you paying his bills.
[54:58] Because he told me that I should give him some and I agreed to give him some time to find a job settle in but.
[55:11] I'm not sorry I'm sorry I just want to I have to interrupt you here like I listened a lot right so I just need to get some information that's more clear so you met him if I remember rightly four years ago right Right. Four years ago, he didn't have a job, right?
[55:27] Yes.
[55:27] So saying you need to give him some time to get a job when he didn't have a job four years ago, I'm not quite sure I understand that.
[55:35] Those are my nagging thoughts as well.
[55:38] Okay, so why are you paying his bills?
[55:45] I think it's worth it to have him in my life.
[55:49] Okay, so you're paying him to be around.
[55:57] Um, yeah.
[55:59] I'm sorry, is this a surprise to you? I don't mean to shock you.
[56:04] I mean, um... i mean i yeah i mean if i didn't pay if i didn't pay the full rent every month we were together then, i mean yeah and.
[56:25] How long have.
[56:25] You been paying all.
[56:26] Of his bills or most of his bills.
[56:28] Well we only tried living together like only a few times but i would say like maybe six months in total have paid his rent.
[56:40] Okay. And what about food and other expenses?
[56:45] Yeah, those two. Very occasionally he pays for his own flour, his kale, I don't know.
[56:53] Okay. All right. So you're paying most of the bills.
[56:58] Yeah.
[56:59] And how long has he been actively looking for work?
[57:05] Um so he was he said he was looking but he was unable to find so i would say for a month he, uh sent out applications online looking for work um and that was uh i think a month ago and and then he moved over here and that was when he was living with his sister, but he says it was he's.
[57:35] 40 years old almost back then and he's living with his sister.
[57:41] Yeah he says he would rather he does like to.
[57:44] Get women to pay his bills in one way or another okay alright so when was the last time he had full time employment that you know of.
[57:55] It was like a decade ago I think it was like a decade so come.
[58:00] On He last had full-time employment 10 years ago, but you think he's about to get a job?
[58:10] I do believe that he will he will start working i i mean i do believe he will, okay but it does bother me why.
[58:19] Do you believe that.
[58:20] I think he is he is not a dishonest guy if he says he will i think that he will and his reasons for not having a job are i think acceptable Well, I mean, I accept with them. He said that he didn't want to work for statists. But then I think he can work for better people.
[58:50] Well, of course, you don't have to work for statists, right? Right. But he's got a moral issue with working for statism, but he doesn't have a moral issue from taking your OnlyFans profits to pay for his food and rent. Is that right?
[59:05] Yeah, exactly. I have actually told him this. And also, his sister has a more status job. She works at a government hospital, I think.
[59:17] Oh, and he took money from her when he was living with her. Is that right?
[59:22] Yeah.
[59:22] Okay.
[59:23] And he says he works for her because he fixes things around her house all the time. So he's paying rent that way.
[59:31] Okay, so you've been paying his rent for six months, is that right?
[59:38] Yeah, I would say roughly six months in total.
[59:41] Okay, so when did you first, or when did he first say, I'm going to get a job?
[59:50] Him?
[59:51] Yeah.
[59:54] So he's been saying that, he's been saying that for a long time, like it's ever since.
[1:00:00] A long time doesn't mean anything to me. I mean, I know you're a female, but I just need some answers that are more direct. If you can try and imagine that you're a man talking to a man, I just need some facts. So how long has he been saying, I'm going to get a job?
[1:00:16] So ever since we met last year, so for a year, I would say, he's been saying that.
[1:00:22] Okay, so for a year, he's been saying, I'm going to get a job, and he hasn't gotten a job. And before that, he was unemployed for nine years.
[1:00:32] Yeah, yeah.
[1:00:33] Okay, do you see what the facts are here?
[1:00:41] Oh, man.
[1:00:44] I mean, has he even gotten an interview that you know of?
[1:00:50] Yeah, he went on an interview a month ago. It was a very shit job, actually. It was very subhuman-ish.
[1:01:00] Well, of course it's a bad job. Bro hasn't worked in a decade. Nobody's going to give him a good job.
[1:01:08] Yeah.
[1:01:09] Listen to me. listen to me i've been a hiring manager i've interviewed like a thousand people i've hired like a hundred people if some resume comes across and it's a 40 year old guy who hasn't worked in 10 years what do you think the odds are i'm going to hire him.
[1:01:24] What if he was like what if he was a principled smart guy.
[1:01:32] Well how how am i supposed to know that from a resume and if he's a smart guy, and he's principled, then he shouldn't be living off other people, right?
[1:01:49] Yeah.
[1:01:50] I mean, tell me, if I'm wrong, tell me I'm wrong.
[1:01:54] No, it makes sense.
[1:01:57] I mean, if he's so principled, why would he be living off his sister's income when her sister is paid by the state, if he's so principled, right?
[1:02:07] Well he says that, it's basically the same as having a job but he say sorry what is the same what.
[1:02:17] Is the same as having a job I don't understand.
[1:02:20] Because he works for her by working around the house yes but he's still getting paid.
[1:02:31] By money she's getting from the state right And I don't, I mean, does she, does she have a 20,000 square foot mansion that's, you know, a hundred years old? I mean, how much work is there to do? Uh, I mean, I have a house, there's work to do, but not that much.
[1:02:51] Right. Yeah. It's not every day that he's fixing something, I think.
[1:02:56] No, of course it isn't. I mean, of course it isn't. So, why doesn't he start his own business?
[1:03:08] He says he was on strike.
[1:03:12] Sorry, he was on strike? Sorry, hang on, hang on, hang on. I don't know. You've got to slow down and tell me what you mean by these things. Like, he's on strike because, what, the system is so bad?
[1:03:23] Yes.
[1:03:24] Okay, so if he's on strike, then why would he get a job now? Because, I mean, has things changed? if the world become moral enough for him like why why would he change now if he's on strike because the system is so bad then why would he get a job now the system isn't better is it.
[1:03:45] He does yeah he does say that if he could avoid it he would he wouldn't like he wouldn't want to work Like, because every time that I say that I want to maybe not date him or live on my own, he talks about going back to his sister because he's not going to pay rent. He would rather live for free. Oh, my God.
[1:04:12] So, again, I'm trying to understand what's not clear to you.
[1:04:22] I don't want to let go of a guy that taught me so much. It actually hurts. Because...
[1:04:30] Okay, so hang on. So let's get out of all the ideology and just look at the basic emotional facts, right? The basic emotional facts is that you feel that you need him. And you prefer to have him in your life because you're lonely and anxious. I mean, again, I'm not trying to break everything down to just one thing, but isn't that kind of what's going on?
[1:05:01] Yes.
[1:05:02] Okay, so let's just be honest about that. And that's fine. I'm not going to crab at you about any of that, but it seems to me that that's what's going on.
[1:05:11] And I haven't been able to replace him with better people. I have met people.
[1:05:19] Well, you can't, hang on, but you can't replace, If you're with someone who's dysfunctional, and listen, your boyfriend may be smart as a whip, he may, you know, whatever, but the smarter he is, the more responsible he should be. Like with great intelligence comes great responsibility. And he shouldn't be at 40 relying on women to pay his bills. Is that a fair statement? I mean, you said you want to have kids, right?
[1:05:49] Yeah.
[1:05:50] Okay. How are you going to have kids with a guy who hasn't had a job in 10 freaking years?
[1:05:58] Yeah, that really, really worries me.
[1:06:01] No, no, no, no, no, how? No, no, no, how? How? It just worries me, but I get that it worries you. What is the plan?
[1:06:10] He hasn't come over the plan.
[1:06:12] No, no, what is your, and forget him, your plan.
[1:06:16] Um... Well, maybe my kids will be poor for a while. Maybe they'll have, like, less toys.
[1:06:29] No, no, come on. Let's be, okay. How much does it cost for you to live? Let's just give me in U.S. dollars, right? So is it $1,000 for you to live? is it $2,000 or $3,000 or less or more how much does it cost you to live with you and him together.
[1:06:58] I would say strength is $1,500 and then maybe $500 on top of it every month wait $500 for everything else, no no, Well, there's also the Wi-Fi bill. I'm maybe not counting.
[1:07:21] Okay, so, I mean, look, there's food, clothing, entertainment, internet, cell phone, healthcare, medical expenses, dentist stuff. I mean, there's a lot, right? Shoes need to be replaced. There's just a lot. And then there's, but you're renting, so you don't. Do you have cars? Any cars?
[1:07:43] No, I don't have a car. I would like to have one.
[1:07:46] I assume he doesn't have a car.
[1:07:49] No, he doesn't have a car either.
[1:07:51] Okay. So, I mean, if you have kids, often it's quite helpful to have a car. So, there's just a wide variety of expenses that are needed. And it probably is at least, for two people, probably is at least, I mean, if you're going to have kids, you're talking at least $4,000 a month. Which means you need to make $6,000 a month because you're going to have to pay taxes, right?
[1:08:16] Oh, God, yeah. I forgot about taxes. Yes.
[1:08:20] Okay. Don't forget about taxes. Pay your taxes. Okay. So how much do you, and just, you know, I'm sorry to ask you now, but I mean, how much do you make a month?
[1:08:34] I, so every time I live with him, I just don't do only fence. So that means I don't make any money overall.
[1:08:42] Okay. So you have almost no income and you're relying mostly on savings, right?
[1:08:46] right okay so hang on so so you you need if you want to become a a wife and mother and stay home with children right you need six thousand dollars a month which is 72 000 a year at a minimum now you can there's some adjustments that you can make there but not a huge amount i mean unless you really want to just go and live on a farm in the middle of nowhere and raise your own food and god knows what right but then you still need dentistry and you still need internet and you still need clothing and all all of that right so so you need six thousand dollars a month, he doesn't make anything it hasn't for 10 years he's lift off other people it sounds like and you make virtually nothing so how i'm asking you what is the plan so he's going to need to start to make six thousand dollars a month in order to provide for a family and for you to stay home with the kids, right?
[1:09:44] Right.
[1:09:45] And, he's, I mean, that's, that's a lot of money. And, and, He has no work experience. I mean, he has no skills that I've heard of, maybe he does, other than he's Mr. Fix-It, like he can fix things around the house. But, I mean, if he's good at fixing things around the house, why doesn't he start that as a business and become like a repair guy?
[1:10:14] Right, yeah.
[1:10:18] So, no, that's a real question. Why doesn't he do that? Because then he's working for himself, right? He's getting money from private citizens, not the state, if that's offending his tender sensibilities.
[1:10:32] He would say that these people, he's providing services for support the state, and he doesn't want to help them.
[1:10:44] So he's not going to get a job. right because he says having basically um providing any goods and services outside of his sister who his sister supports the state like none of this makes any sense if he's such a purist and he doesn't want to interact with people who support the state then why is he taking money from his sister who's directly paid by the state yeah.
[1:11:11] It makes no sense.
[1:11:12] Well it makes sense if you just don't want to get a job.
[1:11:17] Yeah. Yeah, he has said that.
[1:11:19] Okay, so he doesn't want to get a job. So if you stay with him, you can't be a mother. I mean, these are just straight facts, right? If you stay with him, you cannot be a mother because you're going to have to go out and make $6,000 a month, right? Had a job somewhere.
[1:11:44] Yeah.
[1:11:46] And you may, in fact, because you have the OnlyFans history and the stuff has all been leaked with your name and address, you may, in fact, have to start your own business. Because, especially if the Romanian guy is stalking you or threatening you or whatever, then, you know, if he finds out somehow you've got a job, maybe he sends stuff to your boss and maybe that doesn't go too well, you know, that kind of stuff, right? So, you have some challenges, right?
[1:12:15] Oh my god yeah.
[1:12:17] So you might uh so it probably would be better for you to start your own business, so that you you don't in a sense uh well lose your job uh and again this is i'm not saying this is likely uh i'm not saying this is you know but it's it's within the realm of possibility right yeah that's true and the longer you keep doing this kind of work the more in the realm of possibility it come it becomes and remains right yeah.
[1:12:51] Yeah it's true.
[1:12:52] And of course you know this is one of the problems with this kind of work as well is that you know your kids get older if other kids were to ever find out about it it would not be much fun for your kids right.
[1:13:04] When i hear that but i also think maybe kids don't care that much i'm not i'm not sure.
[1:13:10] Uh well there usually is a pendulum in society right so we've had a very licentious and hedonistic society for many decades and we can see that the swing is going the other way now, so your kids will not grow up in the same world that you grew up in uh and it will probably be more conservative it will probably be more um restrictive in terms of sexuality because there's a pendulum in society right it doesn't just stay at one extreme right so you go from the think of the roman empire the roman empire was very hedonistic and licentious and very sexually loose in its morals and then it was replaced by a fundamentalist christianity right so it's hard to know sorry go ahead um.
[1:14:07] Maybe it's a good test to know which people are worth keeping around uh like if my mom did only fans and people wanted to make a big deal out of it i wouldn't want to hang out with them because i i mean it's just like a few new pictures i don't think that there's any more, uh, morally shady stuff.
[1:14:31] Are you saying that you made a pretty decent income off a few nude pictures?
[1:14:36] Yeah. Yeah, pictures, videos.
[1:14:40] Okay, so you said a few nude pictures, and now you mentioned videos.
[1:14:46] Yeah, both.
[1:14:47] Okay. So, I don't think you want to make that decision for your kids, and I don't think you necessarily want to say to your kids, well, mom's got sexually explicit material out there on the internet, and if your friends have a problem with that, they're bad friends?
[1:15:06] I mean even if i didn't have an only fans uh and my kids grew up with none of that uh you know bothering them i i don't think i want i i mean i'm not my kids they are their own people okay hang.
[1:15:21] On hang on what do you mean even if i didn't have an only fans you do.
[1:15:24] Right but i'm just talking about the mindset of like shaming Okay.
[1:15:33] You, hang on, hang on, hang on You got bullied as a kid, right?
[1:15:39] Yeah Now, were the reasons that you got bullied just and right and fair? No Right, so do you see where I'm going with this, right? Even if we were to say, according to your theory, which I don't agree with, but let's play it out, So your theory is that if your kids are bullied because of your sexually explicit content on the internet, then that just means that the bullies are wrong and bad, and your kids shouldn't let it bother them, right?
[1:16:17] Well, I mean, I would...
[1:16:19] No, no, just let me take the lead here, okay?
[1:16:22] Sorry.
[1:16:23] So, is it the case that you would say to your kids, if they were bullied because their mom had sexually explicit material on the internet, would you say to your kids, well, good riddance, those other kids who bullied you are bad kids, and your friends, if they turn on you, they're bad friends, and you should just be happy and relieved that mommy's pornography has revealed who the not good friends are. are now so even if even if we were to say that um your pornographic material is really great at helping your kids figure out who their true friends are the fact is even if it is right and just they're still going to get bullied.
[1:17:12] Right.
[1:17:13] And you got bullied. And what you were bullied for, I assume, was not right and just. Not that there are, I can't really think of many, if any, right or just reasons to be bullied. That's true. But, so saying, well, my kids will be fine with being bullied because bullies are bad.
[1:17:35] Did that mindset help you at all when you were younger?
[1:17:40] So it's hard for me to imagine like if i had good parents rational parents hang on hang on.
[1:17:47] What's my question.
[1:17:48] Yeah your question is if it helped me having that mindset but i did not have that mindset though okay okay.
[1:17:58] Do you think it would have helped you if someone had given you that mindset? Do you think everything would have been okay?
[1:18:07] So that's... I'm not sure.
[1:18:10] Yes, you are. Yes, you are sure. Kids hate being bullied.
[1:18:20] But they get...
[1:18:21] And there's no magic mindset. There's no magic mindset. There's no Zen these aren't the droids you're looking for mindset that changes that. I mean you're very intelligent and you're very verbally skilled and there's a good aspect to that but the bad aspect of that sounds like you can talk yourself in and out of just about anything, if your future kids get bullied because of your OnlyFans material. Is there going to be anything you can say that's going to make them fine with that?
[1:19:16] I want to say that, yeah, I mean, there are things I would teach my kids about morality. I mean, I think people only use sex as a weapon to suppress people. So I don't want my kids to...
[1:19:36] No, no, but see, you're just putting up a bunch of cloudy words here that don't really add up to much. If your future kids get bullied for your OnlyFans material, is there anything you can say that's going to make them fine with being bullied?
[1:19:52] Bullying is wrong. I mean, they should not be doing...
[1:19:54] That's not what I'm asking. Answer my questions, please. Or if you don't want to answer my questions, we don't have to have the conversation. But I need to be kind of firm with you here. Answer my question. Or don't answer my question, but don't just bypass it with bullying is wrong, like that's some big controversial statement. Do you need me to ask it again?
[1:20:15] No. I think, yes, I would. I'm disagreeing with you, but that's what I think right now, that I can make it easier for them by talking to them.
[1:20:31] That wasn't my question.
[1:20:33] Oh, sorry.
[1:20:34] My question wasn't, well, is there any way you can make being bullied easier? Of course you can. My question was, if your children are bullied because of your OnlyFans material, is there anything that you can say that's going to make them okay with that, which means they're fine with the bullying?
[1:20:52] Yeah, I think so. Okay. Maybe I'm wrong, but...
[1:20:57] Well, let me ask you this. When you were being bullied, do you think there's anything that anyone could have said that would have made you perfectly okay with being bullied? It wouldn't bother you. be honest it.
[1:21:17] Would bother it.
[1:21:18] Would bother me is there anything that you go into school and there's kids lining up to beat you up bully you sneer at you spit at you whatever they were doing is there anything that people could say that would make that would make you okay with that, no okay so that's the answer.
[1:21:36] Right I was not picturing physical bullying but yeah I mean yeah.
[1:21:43] Are you saying that physical bullying is always worse than psychological bullying? It's not.
[1:21:50] What do you mean?
[1:21:52] I mean, if you get punched in the face as a kid, or I mean, just from a male perspective, for sure, I think there's some, then it's just a physical injury and it heals over time and the bully gets in trouble, right? But if you're constantly being taunted and put down and, you know, the words get in your head, right? and it can become a lifelong thing.
[1:22:17] What if you know that you're morally superior?
[1:22:22] Well, as a kid, when you were a kid, did you feel that you were as bad as the bullies?
[1:22:30] If I was as bad as them?
[1:22:31] Yeah. Did you feel, well, the bullies are really bad people, but so am I?
[1:22:38] I didn't. Actually, I thought that I was inferior to them at the time.
[1:22:44] Okay. Morally inferior? You felt that you were less moral or more evil than the bullies?
[1:22:52] I thought I was less evil.
[1:22:55] Okay. So you felt that you were morally superior to the bullies. so did that solve your problem of being bullied no right so what are you making all these things up for but you have your own direct experience to draw from, you felt you say well what if you're morally superior to bullies it's like well you were and did that solve your problem no.
[1:23:22] What's the only problem if my parents didn't put me in school with these people but.
[1:23:29] Come on I mean you don't need to say things that obvious we're both very smart people right so if you're saying well if I had been removed from all of the situations of bullying and had never been bullied then I my experience of bullying would be better yes I of course I understand that, I don't mean to laugh but I mean that's blindingly obvious I would have my problems with bullying would have been solved if I was no longer in a situation where I would be bullied, right? Or if my bullies were all gone from my environment, then my problems with bullying would be solved. Well, of course, right?
[1:24:13] Yeah.
[1:24:16] Now, if you had parents who loved you and who were close to you, then you wouldn't have been bullied, most likely. Because bullies pick on those who are separated from their parents. Okay, let's get back to your current boyfriend, if that's all right.
[1:24:37] Right.
[1:24:38] Okay.
[1:24:39] Well, one thing I want to just put out there, is I don't feel comfortable contributing to social... Because I feel like I'm contributing to social shaming, sexual shaming, by being okay with, like, I feel like I'm being part of those people. And I don't want to be.
[1:25:08] Okay, hang on, hang on, slow down, slow down, slow down, slow down.
[1:25:11] Right.
[1:25:11] Okay. So, when you say sexual shaming.
[1:25:18] Yeah.
[1:25:18] You're talking about, hang on. Are you talking about people who shame other people for the normal and healthy act of having sex?
[1:25:30] No.
[1:25:31] Okay, so when you talk about sexual shaming, what are you talking about? Are you talking about shaming women who sell their bodies for money?
[1:25:41] Well, I don't like most of those women, but yeah, just the act of it.
[1:25:46] Okay, so we're talking about shaming pornography workers, or I don't know whether shaming would be the right argument, but it's not shaming of sexuality, right? I mean, if there's a married couple who have sex, they're happily married, and they love their kids, nobody shames them, right?
[1:26:07] Yeah.
[1:26:07] So we're not talking about sexual shaming. We're talking about is there something negative about selling your sexuality for money.
[1:26:21] Yeah, and it sounds harmless to me. Because it feels like shaming them for anything which is not morally violating any other person. And it just feels wrong.
[1:26:36] Well, okay, but shaming is different from jailing. So, I mean, as far as, you know, is sex work a violation of the non-aggression principle? Well, that's a complicated question, which is, if you had been raised in a healthy, happy, non-violent, non-verbally abusive family, would you have become a sex worker?
[1:27:10] I would have not felt the need, no.
[1:27:13] Okay, so the sex work is a shadow cast by massive amounts of prior abuse.
[1:27:23] Yeah, I mean, that's probably true.
[1:27:27] So if violence is required for sex work to exist, even though it could be argued that in the sex work transaction itself there is no violence, If violence and shame and degradation and abuse is all required for sex work to exist at all, then it may not be directly immoral, but it lies deeply in the shadow of a significant evil.
[1:27:59] Yeah, that's true. Yeah.
[1:28:03] And what happened with the Romanian fellow was not moral from what you've described right, yeah and I mean wait sorry could it be because he revealed, he leaked the material which was not part of the agreement as far as I understood it and he also leaked your name and he also leaked your address.
[1:28:31] Yeah.
[1:28:33] So I think if you had known that ahead of time, if he'd have said to you, listen, if you ever don't want to date me, here's what I'm going to do, you probably wouldn't have gotten involved in that work at all with him, right?
[1:28:43] No, no.
[1:28:45] Now, it may not have been a specific, like, I don't know if you guys had a contract or something that was just verbal or something like that. So, but I think that we can say it was not great behavior to do that on his part, right?
[1:29:00] Yeah. Yeah, true.
[1:29:06] So it's not a matter of shaming sex workers. I mean, I know that some people do that and so on, but it is understanding that sex work is something that, it's like it only grows in the shadow of some pretty great wrongs done to children.
[1:29:25] I didn't think like that, but it does make sense.
[1:29:29] I mean, from my own example Can you imagine Can you imagine a woman who was raised In a sort of healthy, happy, loving environment Ending up, You know, selling videos Of her butt hole on the internet Right? That seems less likely, right? Yeah Sorry, I interrupted that You were going to say something else, No.
[1:29:52] Just that From my example, I can agree with you I wanted to think that Other people may have different stories, their own reasons, which don't have much to do with abuse. But I'm not sure about that.
[1:30:07] So here's, I mean, the issue as well is that I think we end up happier if we get paid for things that aren't just accidental to us. Right. So I think if we work to to get paid, like philosophy and what I do, I'm pretty good at it. But it wasn't like just being like being tall or whatever. Right. Or having a great head of hair, which you're just kind of born with. Right.
[1:30:42] Yeah.
[1:30:43] I had to really work hard at it. And it's very satisfying when you work hard at things. Now, I think one of the problems with sex work is that you did not earn your body. And I'm sure you take care of it and exercise and so on, but so do a lot of people, right? So I assume that you're pretty. I assume you have a good figure that people want to pay to see your body, your naked body on the internet.
[1:31:08] Actually, that's another reason. I mean, I was bullied for my body. I developed early and I was very well endowed. and my dad would always bully me, abuse me because I would draw attention and Oh.
[1:31:26] You mean breast size, right?
[1:31:29] Yeah.
[1:31:29] Okay, so hang on. So you didn't earn that, right? That's just an accidental, thing that happened with your body based upon genetics and hormones. Sorry, you were going to say?
[1:31:41] Yeah, I mean I was punished for looking good for like all my life And finally, when I got validation from, like, good attention from the internet, I thought I actually liked it.
[1:31:54] Well, no, I mean, you were starved for any kind of positive feedback, right?
[1:31:59] Yeah.
[1:32:00] Okay. However, you didn't earn your figure. It just happened to you, right?
[1:32:06] Yeah, true.
[1:32:07] Now, and so one of the reasons why it tends to be kind of bad for you as a whole is that it is all accidental and unearned. And so, you didn't earn the fact that men are lusty. You didn't earn the fact that men have hormones. You didn't earn the fact that you have a good figure for this kind of work, right? This is all just accidents, right?
[1:32:38] Yeah.
[1:32:40] And to monetize what you did not earn tends to make people lazy or tends to make people entitled.
[1:32:55] Like it's just an accident that you happen to have the figure that you have and you didn't earn that and you didn't earn that men are full of lust and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So there's a big trading of the unearned here, right? So you didn't earn your figure and, you know, as you say, it's dead easy to, you know, film some content and throw it up online and then you get, and then you get, yeah, it's very easy. It's very easy. And you get, you know, good, good money out of it. Right. And, and there's a cost to the unearned. Now, the men, I assume they are masturbating to, to your images and so on and your videos. And so they have the pretense of sexual activity or sexual access. And so, but they didn't earn it, They didn't work out. They didn't become really charismatic. They didn't earn a lot of money or become very virtuous or whatever it would take to get a woman of significant physical attractiveness to sleep with them. They didn't commit. They didn't do any of that. They just paid five bucks and had some baby oil. so it's all just a bunch of unearned nonsense in a way it's like it's like.
[1:34:17] It's like inheriting a bunch of money and thinking that you're really smart and a great businesswoman or a great businessman. It's not. And so you and your boyfriend are similar in some of this laziness. Now, I'm not calling you lazy in any foundational way. And men, we can't understand this. Can you imagine if I filmed myself doing housework in a little apron or something like that? I think people would pay to not. Maybe that's my business model. It's like, pay me $10 a month or I'll put these videos in your inbox. so yeah.
[1:35:01] But gorton actually says that he he he can't comprehend it even now.
[1:35:06] It's it's it's kind of incomprehensible because you know we our bodies are just like jeeps that move us around to do productive things so the idea that we could just film ourselves and what's this woman sophie rain she just shoot i saw a video of her like she's on a private jet because she made tens of millions of dollars And again.
[1:35:28] Incomprehensible.
[1:35:30] Incomprehensible for men to be a young man. I think she's, what, 18 or 19 or something like that. Legal.
[1:35:36] Oh, no. She's mid-20s.
[1:35:39] Oh, she's mid-20s?
[1:35:41] Yeah, and they all lie about her. She just keeps herself looking young, like a teenager.
[1:35:46] Okay.
[1:35:47] I mean, that is the appeal, apparently, but yeah.
[1:35:50] Sure, okay. So the idea that a young man can... film himself naked and get a private jet. I mean, incomprehensible. It makes no sense. But this is something that's available to women, and it's a hack of male biology. It's a way of getting resources without having to provide children and housework. And so you and your boyfriend have similar levels. And listen, I understand your trauma and I really sympathize with it. So I hope that you understand that I'm not calling you anything negative or anything like that. But your boyfriend and you both like getting something for very little. You get money for your figure, which you didn't earn. And your boyfriend gets money for tinkering around with a little bit of housework here and there. And now he gets money from you.
[1:36:48] Right.
[1:36:49] Right.
[1:36:49] That is so true.
[1:36:51] So there's kind of a mirror there. And laziness is a dangerous path. And I say this with deep knowledge myself, right? You know, a body in motion tends to stay in motion. A body at rest tends to stay at rest. And you went through a lot of trauma as a kid. And I really, really sympathize with all of that. I'd give you a big hug about all of that if I could. so you went through a lot of trauma and um part of that trauma has manifested in a sense the world the world stole from me i'm going to steal back it's a state of nature you know the world didn't protect me i'm you know i'm not going to protect the world men didn't protect me i'm not going to protect their interest if they want to send me money for topless pictures or whatever fine I don't care right so you're in a you're in a state of nature with the world and I think that's risky in the long run because there are good people in the world there are great virtues in the world and if you keep yourself in this kind of orbit it's going to be hard if not impossible, to find better people.
[1:38:08] Yeah so what do you love about your boyfriend and i know that sounds skeptical i don't mean like well what the heck do you love but genuinely and not what he says and not his ideas but what he does love is empirical love is factual love doesn't deal much with words alone love deals with practical actions. So that's my question. Tell me about your boyfriend's virtues that you love.
[1:38:38] Well, he does a lot of housework. He fixes so many things. He fixes the bathroom. He can build things. So I feel taken care of.
[1:38:52] Okay, are those, hang on, are practical skills, virtues. Virtues are things that can't be done by immoral people. Now, can immoral people fix things?
[1:39:06] Yeah, probably.
[1:39:07] Yeah, of course they can. Can immoral people do housework?
[1:39:12] Yeah.
[1:39:13] Okay, so then it's not specifically moral. Can immoral people do good? Well, no, because if they do good, then they're not immoral people, right? Unless they're faking it for some fraudulent reason. So tell me about the virtues that he possesses, not the practical skills that could be shared by immoral people. I'm not saying he's immoral for having his skills. I'm just saying that they're not specifically moral. But sorry, go ahead.
[1:39:37] He's good at confrontations about immorality with people, his family. I don't know any other guy. I mean, except for you, but I don't know your real life. But he is the only person that I've seen who actually confronted his family about the abuse that they did, about how they are still supporting friends with immoral people. So he's honest like that.
[1:40:07] Okay, so sorry, and I appreciate that, and that's a good answer. That is not a continual thing. That's a one-time thing or maybe a two- or three-time thing. It's not like he does that every day, right? When did he do that, years ago?
[1:40:23] He does it every now and then, every time they reach out.
[1:40:27] No, no, but in terms of, like, initially.
[1:40:33] Yeah, decades ago When he first did it.
[1:40:37] I think Okay, so that's a long time ago And does he confront his family For the immoral things that they do?
[1:40:46] Yeah.
[1:40:47] Okay.
[1:40:48] Yeah.
[1:40:49] According to his philosophy, is his sister's work with the government good or not good?
[1:40:59] No, it's not good. It's questionable.
[1:41:02] So, hang on. So, he's getting paid from her. So, when you say he confronts his family on their immorality and he defines your sister's income as at least morally problematic but is happy to take her money, then that's not very consistent, is it? no i mean if if you found out that i had somehow taken some big government grant for my show, would you consider that a good or a bad thing bad i think it would be at least questionable right, yeah so and and it would be um it would give people doubts about my integrity and my independence right?
[1:41:43] Yeah, true.
[1:41:45] And rightly so, I think. So, I don't think saying that he confronted his family, a decade ago and yet takes, how long was he living with his sister?
[1:42:01] Maybe less than a year, but he would spend every other weekend overdue, I think, for a couple years.
[1:42:08] No, but if he hasn't had a job in a year, what's he been living on?
[1:42:11] Oh, he's been depleting his own savings for years.
[1:42:17] Oh, okay. So was he, did he work very hard in his twenties and he saved up enough to live on for like 10 years?
[1:42:26] Apparently he lives very lean. Um, so until like, like two years ago, he was on his own, I think.
[1:42:36] Okay. So, did he work very hard in his 20s and saved up a lot of money?
[1:42:45] He is a hard worker, but I think his pay was just normal, average. So, he must have spent very less money on himself, because I don't know that he didn't rely on his sister until maybe the last two years, last year, I don't know.
[1:43:00] Okay, hang on, hang on. Something's just not, I'm not saying you're wrong, obviously, right? I don't know, but my gut sense tells me that something is quite wrong about all of this. And I don't mean immoral. I just mean, it just doesn't, it just doesn't fit together to me. Okay. So let's say that he made, I'm just going to, I'm just bringing up a calculator here. And again, this is all probably nonsense, but let me just indulge me for a sec, right? So let's say he made $30,000 a year. Let's say he did that for 10 years from like 20 to 30, right? So it's 300,000. But it's going to be less than that because of he's going to have to live on something. And, you know, he's got to see the dentist. He's got to buy food. He's got to buy clothing. He's got to have a roof over his head. So, and none of that stuff has been cheap for a long time, right? So if he's making $30,000 a year, that is $2,500 a month. Let's say he can get by with spending, I don't know, $1,500 a month to live. Or let's make it even easier. Let's make it somehow he can get by on $1,000 a month, which is crazy.
[1:44:16] And that's probably more like it. He really does live that cheap.
[1:44:21] Okay.
[1:44:21] He used to.
[1:44:23] He used to live for $1,000 a month. So that's like renting one room in the back of a house with like, because I did some of this stuff when I was in my 20s, right? When I was in school. So that's like renting one room and living off, you know, I don't know, bone broth and you said kale earlier.
[1:44:44] Right?
[1:44:44] Bone broth and whatever, right?
[1:44:46] Oh, yeah, just beans and kale. That's all he eats, like wheat and flour and beans and kale. and maybe he had like $900 a month for the longest time.
[1:44:57] Okay. So he's got to pay some taxes and pay taxes on things, right? So let's just say he can get $1,000 a month, right? That he could save off his $30,000 income. And that means barely taking the bus, no car, no movies, no travel, no nothing, right? No vacations. Okay?
[1:45:13] Yeah.
[1:45:14] Okay. So he's able to save $12,000. You know what? Maybe it's possible. Yeah. Times 10. And so he's saved up $120,000. So, yeah, if he can keep his income, if he can keep his expenses very low, yeah, I could see that he could get by for a year. Do you know if he's got much more money?
[1:45:37] I think he's nearing zero now.
[1:45:40] Okay. All right. And his plan is, I know we talked about this earlier, but is he studying things? Is he learning things? Is he trying to get some skills together so that he can get a job? Because he's been out of the workforce for 10 years. So he's going to have a really tough time getting back into the workforce as well, right?
[1:46:05] He's a pretty good coder, I think. And he studied engineering. He dropped out. He studied like nano engineering. So he's pretty good. He's a nerd like that. And yeah.
[1:46:19] And does he have social contacts that you know of that might be willing to give him a chance? Because, you know, being unemployed for 10 years and being self-taught is not very compelling to most hiring managers.
[1:46:33] His ex-employer likes him. He reached out to him recently for reference, and he was happy to take him back even, but he's in a different, but people do like him. But about him getting a new job, it's… Then why, sorry.
[1:46:52] Hang on, hang on. So, if he's doing coding and his ex-employer likes him, then why doesn't he just work remotely?
[1:47:01] It was not that kind of a company i think they just make lights and he was he was doing manual labor over there.
[1:47:09] Okay which isn't going to get you the 6k that you need um oh no i'm expecting.
[1:47:15] Minimum wage from him right now.
[1:47:17] Okay so if he gets a job at minimum wage he's almost certain to not be able to afford a family, right?
[1:47:26] Yeah.
[1:47:27] Okay, okay. So I'm still looking for the virtues, that he consistently maintains on a daily basis, consistent, because you said you don't feel safe around him, right? You said you feel 30% safe. I don't know if that's like minus 30% in terms of you feel anxious. 30% safe means I feel somewhat safe but I could feel a lot more safe but do you actually feel somewhat safe or do you feel unsafe like it's a negative.
[1:48:07] We have arguments every now and then so I feel unsafe during those arguments.
[1:48:12] I mean couples disagree that's not necessarily but things escalate like pretty.
[1:48:19] And I feel degraded. He will say that I start those arguments. I don't think I start most arguments.
[1:48:26] Sorry, why do you feel degraded?
[1:48:29] He resorts to name calling. He calls me insane a lot.
[1:48:34] So he calls you, hang on, he calls you insane, and what else does he say?
[1:48:40] You fucking bitch, you retard.
[1:48:44] Oh, come on, this is terrible. My friend, this is This is terrible. What are you doing? I mean, he knows about your history of child abuse and verbal abuse, right?
[1:48:57] He does, and I told him that it makes my body do the thing, like my shoulders feel unsafe.
[1:49:04] So you're paying for a guy to call you some of the most horrifying names that he can.
[1:49:13] Yeah, it sounds really bad.
[1:49:15] I mean, I don't know what it sounds like. I mean, is it or isn't it?
[1:49:21] Yeah.
[1:49:22] Is it wrong to verbally abuse a victim of severe child abuse?
[1:49:28] I think it's wrong, yes.
[1:49:30] It is wrong. It is wrong. And how often does he call you names?
[1:49:43] He has a short temper. I will say he's impatient with me.
[1:49:48] Are you going to answer my question or are you going to give me story time? We don't have much time left and I want to be efficient.
[1:49:54] Right. Like every other day, to be honest.
[1:49:58] Oh, my gosh. So every other day. So 15 times a month, right? Every other day, you are experiencing being called an effing bitch and crazy and all kinds of terrible things, right?
[1:50:13] Yeah, and I don't think it's warranted.
[1:50:16] It's not warranted. Of course it's not warranted.
[1:50:20] Well, I mean, he says that I actually am insane. I don't think I am.
[1:50:25] Well, it's not warranted because if you – I mean, look, you have dysfunctions from your childhood. Because you had a terrible childhood, if it's any consolation, so do I, so does every other human being who's had a terrible childhood. You have dysfunctions, right? Are those dysfunctions helped or hurt by more abuse?
[1:50:48] They are hurt.
[1:50:50] They are hurt.
[1:50:50] It makes me numb. And then when I get numb, he says I'm a sadist because I don't communicate, but I don't feel safe.
[1:50:58] Right. So he pours verbal abuse at you. And again, I know this is just one side of the story, right? But he pours verbal abuse at you, and then you dissociate because that's how you survived your childhood. And then he says, you're being cruel because you're not being emotionally available or something like that.
[1:51:16] Yeah, and he goes on rampages, like mocking me, like, oh, poor me. Nobody understands me. Like, it's very disturbing. I know I actively chose him, so I'm not one to complain, but.
[1:51:30] Well, but why are you choosing him?
[1:51:35] Well, when I try living alone, I feel like I'm worse off. I feel very...
[1:51:43] Would it not be somewhat sensible to take the money you're pouring into this guy who's verbally abusing you? Has he ever been violent?
[1:51:57] I'm not... No. Well, no, not really. But he can be like a... I mean, not violent, no.
[1:52:08] Okay. So instead of pouring money into this guy who's verbally abusing you, why not pour money into getting some therapy? Okay.
[1:52:21] Yeah.
[1:52:23] Wouldn't that be a better use of your resources? I'm sorry, I interrupted you. My apologies. Go ahead.
[1:52:29] Oh, I was just saying that I have been skeptical about therapy. I was very skeptical that someone could help me because I didn't trust people. But I'm starting to think that I might need it. I don't have any other results left.
[1:52:49] Right. I mean, if you have a daughter, right, I hope that you get that opportunity, right? If you have a daughter and your daughter is living with a guy who calls her these horrible names every other day and mocks her, what would you tell your daughter?
[1:53:10] I would immediately ask her to come to me until she finds a different guy. because I don't think that anything requires name calling either be with the person or don't name call.
[1:53:28] I'll tell you this straight up name calling is always wrong now people who call you names will say well you did this and you did that and you provoked it doesn't matter it's always wrong, I mean in loving romantic relationships sorry go ahead Yes.
[1:53:45] I have been guilty too, but I think most of the time he is the one doing it and he, I try not, I mean, at one time, I just want to add this information. I called the cops on him one time when we were living together, one of our attempts, and that's how he went back to his sister's place and I was alone for the next few months.
[1:54:09] And why did you call the cops?
[1:54:12] Okay so i was feeling i was getting starting to get anxiety attacks and it would like i would feel pain on the left side of my chest and i was unable to tell if it's a heart attack some heart issues or if it's just an anxiety attack but i couldn't basically i couldn't breathe i i felt like, i'm going to die and happened a few times i didn't see any sympathy from him any like concern like that he said just exercise you'll be okay and like one night he was blowing up and uh he was being um like i would say cruel and i i felt the chest pain i told him not to and also the yelling was really like the things he would say were very cruel it was hurt i had nowhere to go to like he was in my house and i said just just be quiet now and just leave when you can uh i don't want to do this and i started i broke down because my chest was hurting and i was like i don't know how to stop this and i i called 911 i said can you like dismantle this argument. I just want to be left alone. So maybe just tell him to go home. Sorry, you asked him to leave.
[1:55:36] You asked him to leave, but he wasn't leaving. Is that right?
[1:55:40] He would say, I will leave. Don't test me. I will leave and stuff like that. But he wouldn't. There were some weekends when he would leave and I would get sentimental. But that night, yeah, I told him. And he's He's been rubbing down my face a lot, like he called the cops on me.
[1:56:03] What has he been rubbing in your face?
[1:56:05] That I called the cops on him. I wanted to hurt him.
[1:56:09] Okay, so you called the cops on him because you wanted him to leave and he wasn't leaving, right?
[1:56:17] At the very least just be quiet and not torment me because i was actually a panic attack so yeah he didn't listen okay.
[1:56:25] Got it all right so the cops came and what happened.
[1:56:32] They were for him they told him to just get out and they were there for a reason they said don't interfere just he's gonna leave and yeah he packed his stuff and he left that evening and.
[1:56:45] Then he was away for a while at his sister's, right?
[1:56:48] Yeah. And when, so every time we are away, apart, we suddenly seem to get along. Like, we miss each other, and then I tell myself it's gonna be better because we have gotten closer. But I can't keep that up anymore. I think it's, I'm blind to myself.
[1:57:15] Okay. Okay. Right. Again, I'm very sorry for all of this. And you said that you've participated as well, so you have done name calling and things like that?
[1:57:29] Oh, yes. I call them names too.
[1:57:35] What if you called him?
[1:57:38] Baldi.
[1:57:41] That's a compliment. I'm just kidding. No, so you've called him Baldi? What else?
[1:57:47] I would repeat his words like retard and I did initiate too a few times but I was feeling resentful but I'm not trying to make I mean I didn't make an excuse but yeah me too I'm also guilty of this but he.
[1:58:02] Also I mean.
[1:58:03] He's as you.
[1:58:03] Said he's 16 years older right.
[1:58:06] Yeah so.
[1:58:07] He has an obligation to be somewhat more mature yeah.
[1:58:15] Yeah. He's not the one against the name calling. And he says that I'm just like his parents. I'm just like his, oh my God. Also, when I cry, he starts laughing in my face and it's a scary sight. And he says that I am using his mom's tactics to get sympathy and manipulate the circumstances. It's very disturbing.
[1:58:39] So if you cry, he mocks you or I'm not sure I quite followed that.
[1:58:45] So when I break down, he just laughs at it and he says that I'm being a bitch because I'm trying to manipulate the argument by crying and getting sympathy points.
[1:59:01] So he doesn't really have much of any sympathy for your emotional upset.
[1:59:10] Yeah.
[1:59:11] Now, is it the case that this, it sounds like, but correct me if I'm wrong, is that similar to what your family did with you when you were young?
[1:59:20] Oh, my God, yes.
[1:59:22] Right.
[1:59:23] My dad was like that.
[1:59:24] Right. So, we sort of come a little bit full circle in a way, but you said you had daddy issues and then you were with him, perhaps in part because of he was like your father? And I said it was a little glib in a way because I didn't really understand it. And does that make a little bit more sense now?
[1:59:55] But when I was talking to him, it didn't feel like he was actually different.
[2:00:01] I don't know what you mean when you say when you were talking to him.
[2:00:04] When I started getting to know him.
[2:00:08] Well, okay, but...
[2:00:09] Like, he was actually... I was very impressed.
[2:00:12] No, but it matters. This is the consistency part that matters, right? This is the consistency part. Is, I mean, people can pretend to be whatever they want. It's called acting, right? But what matters is, are they consistently behaving in a way that is rational and moral? Not at the beginning, right?
[2:00:42] Yeah. Oh, my God. Actually, he was always like this, but I just brushed it aside.
[2:00:52] Sorry, but you say he was always like this. Tell me what you mean.
[2:00:54] Oh, the name-clogging? The name-clogging is missing my emotions, not really taking a moment to appreciate how triggered or unsafe I'm feeling.
[2:01:07] Mm-hmm. So, yeah, if that's been consistent from the beginning, then this is another reason why it's going to be tough for him to get a job. If he has this level of sort of emotional immaturity, then that's going to be tough. It's going to be tough for people to hire him because he's not had to be an employee for a long time. And it's going to be tough for him to deal with difficult feelings or challenging feelings. And look, I'm sure that he had his own really terrible childhood, so I have sympathy. I have a little more sympathy for you because you're much younger, but I'm sure he had his own difficulties and, you know, really tough things that were going on as well.
[2:01:52] Yeah, he also had, like, a not happy childhood.
[2:01:57] Right.
[2:01:57] But he's also, I mean.
[2:01:58] If he's been into philosophy and self-knowledge for a long time, he should have the moral standard to say, well, clearly, I'm not going to call someone names. Like, I'm not, I'm not going to take a prior victim of child abuse and call her all these terrible things, right? That he would know enough about that, right?
[2:02:18] I mean, yeah, he doesn't believe in what you said, no.
[2:02:23] Oh, he's, he's, uh, he's rejected sort of the stuff that I talk about. Is that right?
[2:02:28] Yeah. So this is where he would disagree with you, I think.
[2:02:32] And does he still listen? Yeah.
[2:02:35] Well, he listens to you every day when he works out. We both listen to you.
[2:02:39] Right. So he's going to have a chance to hear this, right?
[2:02:43] Yeah. He actually wanted to be part of the call, but I wanted to talk only about myself.
[2:02:49] Yeah. Listen, and if he's listening, I mean, I'm certainly happy to chat with you and get your side of things. But I very much strongly disagree that this is productive and healthy.
[2:02:59] like hugely strongly without any hesitation or equivocation uh believe that this is not not the way sorry you were going to say.
[2:03:07] Oh i mean if you have questions for him i don't mind like i don't mind having having him time and he he did warn me he said that he might he has a tendency to monopolize the conversation but i i don't mind.
[2:03:24] Oh no i'm not like we've been talking of two hours i don't want to do it now but um if he wants to you know free domain.call he's welcome to set up a a call-in show but uh yeah this isn't this is not this is not the right way to do things and um this is this is not this is not healthy it's not healthy to to uh bombard each other with these kinds of uh um attacks uh that's and and it's of course in particular it would be a terrible um it would be a terrible uh environment for children to grow up in if that makes sense actually.
[2:03:56] I agree and i told him that if we if i had a child and he was treating me like this in front of her him uh it would crush me and it was it would also be very bad for him to witness because no one wants a mom who's not treated well who doesn't seem to have much worth to her husband and he does agree with this and saying that, I mean, I don't, I'm on your side on this.
[2:04:28] Right. Okay. All right. I mean, I would definitely take some resources and put them into therapy. And, you know, if for whatever reason you can't afford it, I think you can if you're not funding this guy. If you can't afford it for whatever reason, let me know and I can send you some money to pay for the therapy. Because, again, I'm really, really sorry for everything that you suffered. as a child. Oh, I appreciate it.
[2:04:58] But I can afford it.
[2:05:00] Okay, but yeah, let me know otherwise. And it is not, I think the reason why you're stressed and depressed is because you haven't come to a place of calm and acceptance from people around you. And that's very stressful. And I don't think that what you guys are doing as a couple is breaking the cycle of negativity and hostility, especially if you, you know, every other day you're hearing these terrible things about yourself that are, you know, I mean, they're kind of soul shredding somebody you love and respect calls you insane and an effing bitch. And like, it's appalling. It's appalling. I mean, I've been married for 23 years. I mean, I've never called my wife a name and I've never raised my voice. And like, it's incomprehensible that that would happen. I mean, because we love each other, which means we don't want to make each other feel bad in that way. So, I'm really sorry. And I think definitely getting some therapy will help because I don't think this is a particularly good direction.
[2:06:06] Yeah, I will definitely get therapy. Like, I'm ready now to get therapy.
[2:06:13] Okay.
[2:06:13] I mean, I should have been before, but I thought that I had what I needed, but I think I have more issues than I thought I had.
[2:06:21] Yeah, okay. Well, listen, lots of affection and big hugs. I hope that you'll keep me posted about how things are going. And again, if your boyfriend wants to chat, I'd be happy to, you know, have him tell me his side or what's going on in his life. And maybe I could help him as well. But I hope you'll keep me posted. And I thank you for your time today.
[2:06:42] Oh, my God. Yes. And I'm really grateful for getting two hours from you. And, yeah, I will keep you posted. I would like to.
[2:06:53] All right. Thanks, Emil. All the best. Bye-bye.
[2:06:55] Bye.
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