0:07 - Welcome to Freedomain Live
14:18 - Forgiveness and Its Challenges
19:47 - The Nature of Power Dynamics
28:50 - Navigating Relationships with Parents
34:40 - The Complexity of Apologies
37:47 - Reflecting on Personal Growth
1:08:36 - The Pursuit of Love and Relationships
1:34:38 - Seeking Conservative Values in Dating
1:46:49 - Final Thoughts and Future Steps
In this episode, I delve into the pressing topic of forgiveness, a subject that brings up numerous conflicting viewpoints and emotions. The discussion begins by addressing the common belief that forgiveness must be earned, a notion that creates rifts among those who desire resolution without confronting wrongdoers and those who feel morally obligated to demand accountability. I explore how the struggle for forgiveness can emerge from a "coalition of the exploited"—people who wish to avoid the consequences of their actions and those who hesitate to face the truth about their relationships with wrongdoers.
As the conversation progresses, a listener raises the question of why companies often make decisions that ignore customer feedback, leading to financial decline. I outline the idea that we are engaged in an ongoing "war" between productive and consumptive forces within society—those who are committed to fulfilling customer needs versus those who wish to impose ideologies onto businesses. I share insights from my past experiences in Human Resources to illustrate how corporate interests can be compromised by ideological agendas that disregard the desires of clients, ultimately placing profitability at risk.
The dialogue shifts to the importance of personal responsibility and the impact of one's actions on relationships. I assert that overlooking the need for apologies and restitution is detrimental to both individual growth and interpersonal dynamics. It is pivotal for individuals who have committed wrongs to acknowledge their behavior, apologize, and make amends, lest they perpetuate cycles of hurt without learning from their mistakes. Drawing from biblical references, I emphasize that true repentance requires intention to improve, and failure to communicate wrongdoing undermines the moral fabric of our interactions.
Listeners also share their personal stories about the struggles they face when attempting to reconcile with their pasts, including family dynamics. The conversation offers insights into the profound effects of parental criticism and the lingering trauma it can cause as individuals seek to navigate their self-worth and relationships. I suggest that the road to healing involves not only forgiving others but also recognizing where we may have fallen short in caring for ourselves and holding ourselves accountable.
Continuing, I stress the power of vulnerability, particularly in how it can forge connections and strength in relationships. By embracing vulnerability, we invite others to respond with love and understanding rather than manipulation or scorn. The ensuing discussions touch upon the essence of self-discipline and how it plays a vital role in pursuing our goals. I challenge listeners to evaluate their priorities and whether they are aligned with their aspirations, especially in the context of romantic relationships.
The episode wraps with a deep dive into an individual’s turbulent relationship history, shedding light on how past experiences have shaped their current challenges in dating and commitment. Through open dialogue, I encourage reflecting on the qualities we seek in partners while remaining grounded in our true values. I recognize the difficulties that arise when we fail to hold ourselves to those values and how past traumas might hinder our ability to pursue the relationships we truly desire.
In summary, this episode presents a thought-provoking exploration of forgiveness, personal responsibility, and the intricate dynamics of human relationships, echoing the call to self-reflect and strive for integrity in our interactions with one another.
[0:00] Hi, everybody. Stefan Molyneux from Freedomain. Welcome to your Wednesday Night Live, 25th of June, 2025. 250625.
[0:07] It would not be bad, bad, bad coordinates for a very bizarre hourglass-shaped Barbie doll. Should I share every thought? It's always a big question. It's always a big question. I think the answer at the moment is yes, I will. Whether that's wise or not, we shall find out as the evening continues and commences. Commences. If you have questions, comments, issues, challenges, problems, I am thrilled to get them and to hear them. All right. Thank you, Soad. Loved your discussion on forgiveness. Yeah that's a that's kind of a challenge and a half for people isn't it this idea that.
[0:59] This this idea that that you need to earn forgiveness it just it drives some people nuts and it drives two groups of people nuts one the people who want to be able to do wrong without having to pay any retribution or restitution number one and number two the people who don't want to confront the wrongdoers in their life for fear that they just don't care about them so So it's a coalition of the exploitive and the mildly courage disabled. Cowardous, mildly courage disabled, or something like that. All right. Tom. There was Tom, Tom, sitting on a bomb in the quartermaster store. Tom says, why do companies make tone deaf decisions that all their customers oppose, then act surprised when profits go down? All right. Because, Tom, we're at war. We're at war. Anybody not know this? You all know this, right? You all know this, right? I'm going to post this on X, and then you can to call. To call in uh yeah we're at war we're at war and the war is between engineering and hr between the productive and the consumptive between the takers and the makers so we're at war i worked in hr i worked in an hr department when i was a student for a couple summers in a major canadian corporation.
[2:18] It's bad man it's bad so we're at war because some people wish to please their customers and provide goods and services that meet people's needs and make them happy that they're willing to pay for in a relatively voluntary free mark transaction and association number one number two number two o-t-o-h on the other hand number two is the people who want to grab hold of a company's productivity and reputation and existing customer base and use it to jam down, wretched vile ideology down their gullets like a mother bird poisoning her children right so that's the war that's the war and the corrupt mandate the swivel chaired loathsome spotty behind email nonsense jobs known as hr in my humble opinion and they use the existing productivity, credibility and customer relationships in order to jam the aforementioned wretched ideology down people's throats. They have no interest in pleasing customers. They only have an interest in spreading ideology. And they hijack the corporation and its customer base in order to do just that.
[3:46] So I hope that makes sense. The forgiveness debate going on is amazing. No matter how logical Stef is, people refuse to accept it. Well, not everyone. I get some support from the Christians. I certainly get some support from the Bible. And it is a good debate. It is a good debate. I am very, very keen, very keen to have evildoers not benefit from their evildoing. Right? That is an important goal of mine.
[4:20] That is an important goal of mine. And if people can do absolutely wrong and terrible things and then just say, well, you have to forgive me, na-na-na-na-boo-boo, you got to forgive me. Well, no. Why? You know, everyone says to me, and it's funny, not everyone, a lot of people say to me, well, Stef, Stef, Stef, Stef. Always with that condescending tone, right? Steffi. What you don't understand, man, is you forgive other people for the sake of your own happiness and peace of mind. You can go to fdurl.com slash live call.
[5:04] Fdurl.com slash live call. If you want to call in, you are absolutely welcome to. We can have a good old chitty chat. Yeah, so people say to me, Stef, you should forgive other people for your own benefit. It's selfish. That is selfish. Doing something for my own benefit alone, when I'm engaged in a moral task, like if I'm, I don't know, shaving or stretching or, I don't know, working out, maybe you could say, well, that's for my own benefit. But those aren't moral tasks. Wrongdoing, forgiveness, restitution, these are moral tasks. And you do not do moral tasks for your own benefit alone. We are all involved in the moral story of mankind, like it or not, present or not, whether you show up or you don't, you are involved through your presence, integrity, or corruption and absence from the moral story of mankind. There is no getting off this train. We are strapped to the boiler.
[6:07] And it is cold-hearted, man. It is cold-hearted to keep from people the requirement for apologies and restitution. How are they supposed to know they've done wrong unless you enforce moral standards of apology and restitution? If you just blanket forgive, you are withholding from people the visceral knowledge of the wrongdoing.
[6:40] And Jesus himself says, go forth and what? Go forth and sin no more. Go forth and sin no more. Bamaga says, it's not true repentance unless you intend to stop sinning. Yeah. Repentance means, nobody's perfect, but repentance means I have a plan in place to stop. the behavior. Doesn't mean perfect, but you have a plan in place to stop the behavior. And if you don't have that plan in place, well, excuses are promises of repetition. Excuses are promises of repetition. All right let me just say here post questions here if you can't call if you i know not everybody has rumble or locals so that is fine but i'm looking forward to your questions and comments, what if somebody says that they're not the same person they used to be.
[8:05] That's an excuse that's an excuse you don't get to change for the better unless you accept responsibility for the worst and if somebody wrongs you in a fairly egregious manner somebody wrongs you in a fairly egregious manner and they say no no no i'm a better person now fantastic If they're a better person, then they should have no problems apologizing, making restitution, and providing a plan by which it's not going to happen again. Right?
[8:42] And people say, let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Which means, don't hypocritically accuse others of sins that you are still committing. And of course, we're talking about stoning to death, not mere apologies and restitution in a non-criminal, non-rocks-bludgeoning-the-head-to-the-point-of-death scenario. Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Sure, if you want to be a moral influence in the world, look in the mirror first. It's not complicated, is it? If you want to sell a diet book, don't be fat. If you want to sell an exercise book, don't be flabby. Stef is now selling glorious golden locks hair restoration formulas. It's so important to have gorgeous, beautiful hair to flick, to rotate, to swirl around like a black hole of vortex-based sexiness and sensuality. I, Stef, can provide you with the most beautiful head of hair that can be conceived of outside of a highly startled and gelled Brad Pitt. Step right up for Stef's hair tonic of infinite swirly protein sexiness.
[10:10] If you want to be a dentist, maybe have good teeth. Right, you know that old riddle, like you go into town, there's only two barbers. Do you go to the guy with the good haircut or the guy with the bad haircut? Well, you go to the guy with the bad haircut because the two barbers are cutting each other's hair, therefore the other barber has the good haircut. So yeah, you look, so if you're someone who does wrong and never apologizes, then don't demand apologies of others. If apologies are a value, then when you do wrong, apologize. And you know, here's the funny thing. Maybe I've just been extremely lucky in my life. I'm willing to take that as a possibility. I'm very happy to look at the option or the possibility I've been very lucky. But let me tell you what it is to apologize. Lord knows I've had some things to apologize for, and I have made those apologies. This is the funny thing. And tell me what you guys think. Have you experienced this? Have you experienced this? That when you apologize, most people, yeah, most people.
[11:29] When you apologize most people accept it graciously and positively and don't grind your gears or try and humiliate you or put you down or, use it to dominate and humiliate you i can't think of a time i mean outside of early experiences with unchosen relationships let's say i really can't think of a time where I've put forward a genuine apology. I mean, if you do it on social media, like on X, you apologize for something, there'll always be a few people who just, you know, kick you, shows you should have some humility going forward and never assert anything, you know, whatever it is, right? So you get a few intergalactic douchebags when you apologize, but I'll tell you this, man. If you, you know, manfully, womanly, adultly stand before someone and say, listen, I messed up, I don't really have any excuse, I'm really sorry about it. Here's what I'm going to do about it and I.
[12:29] Here's the plan by which it's not going to happen again, and, you know, I'll really commit to fixing it up, right? Okay. How many people are going to just grind you down because of that? See, apologizing is liberating. Because if you apologize and the person just uses it to lord over you and grind you down and humiliate you and, you know, like dysfunctional families, right? You drop two plates and suddenly you're the clumsy one who can't butter fingers. Well, I don't want to hand you this plate. You're going to drop it. You know, this goes on for 40 years until you want to jump off a bridge. You know, those dysfunctional families where you make two mistakes and suddenly, right, that's your whole, like you're stamped into that, like Han Solo in a carbonite. You're just stamped with that. So you can't make any mistakes. Like if you admit that you're wrong in a dysfunctional family and then you make any other statement of assertion, they say, oh, oh, are you certain about this the way that you were certain about that other thing three years ago when you turned out to be totally wrong? They just, right? You admit an error, you admit a fault, and they just, they just use it to, but that's really rare in the world outside of, you know, a dysfunctional family.
[13:44] Situation, right? But you wouldn't believe just how good it is for your relationships, If you did wrong, just apologize. Make restitution. Figure out why it happened. Figure out how to have it not happen again. Man, it's beautiful. It's beautiful. And here's the thing. It makes you more careful, right? Because if you have to apologize, and it's not super fun, right? But you can really get closer to people, and it makes you less likely to do something again if there's a negative associated with it.
[14:18] So...
[14:26] It's a test of the maturity of the people in your life, you see. It's a test of the maturity of the people in your life. Can the people in your life, can they accept an honest and honorable apology? It's a big question. It's a big question. Can they do it? See an apology gives people power over you i was wrong i was wrong you got me i was wrong and it gives people power over you to admit wrong but don't you want to find out, how people handle power over you before you give them your heart mind soul children a wedding ring, share your intimate secrets, look for them for support in your toughest times don't you want to know how people handle power in your life? You probably already know how your parents handled power because there's no bigger power disparity in the world, the universe that we know of than that between parent and child.
[15:46] You can't trust people, until and unless you know how they handle power over you. How many men have you heard complain about a woman they marry who gains weight, becomes inattentive, gets lazy, and won't have sex? There's a shocking number of sexist marriages. I've talked to a number of people over the course of my call-in shows about this. There's a shocking number. Of sexless marriages. So, in particular, given the court system these days, when a woman marries a man, she gains enormous power over him, massive power, because she has the entire psycho apparatus of the modern state behind her, should she be unhappy. So, before you get married, you've got to find out how your woman or your man handles power over you. And one of the ways that you do that is you apologize, thus giving someone power over you. I'm wrong. I have no defense. Let's see how you handle it when I'm wrong and have no defense and you have power over me.
[17:14] It's the same thing in business. When you get into business and you get neck or knee deep in business, your investors, your board, they all have power over you. How do they handle that power?
[17:28] It takes a fairly stern soul to resist the temptations of powers. One of the main reasons that I, over the last 20 years and even before that, I don't tell people what to do. Don't tell people what to do. Most I'll say is, if I were in your shoes, I'd think about this, and here's why. I don't tell people what to do. I don't want anyone to listen to me telling them what to do, because they've got to think for themselves. And even if they were to listen to me, which would be not to think for themselves, then that would give me a lot of power over people, which I don't want. Because power corrupts. Power over people destabilizes the soul and has you not meet as equals love is when you are equals not hierarchical right not like those two fabled pieces of paper being pushed together on a tabletop one goes over the other love is equality and equality means refusing, to exercise power over others. In all relationships, we are at times vulnerable, we are at times uncertain, we are at times afraid, we are at times needy, you name it.
[18:49] How do people handle having power over you? How do people handle it when you're not able to be there for them, when you're sick, when you're broke, when you're fired, when you're scared, when you're nervous, when you're anxious, when you have a difficult time with some important aspect of your life. And you're vulnerable. How do people handle having power over you? Absolutely essential to find out. Yeah, an apology maps the power addiction or lack thereof in your relationship. And, of course, a lot of us grew up with parents who were defensive, aggressive, intolerant, and all apologies were expressions of submission and guilt and subjugation, and we hate it.
[19:48] But don't take that into your romantic relationships. Don't take that into your business relationships.
[20:00] To Probe whether someone wants the ring of power, right? Wants Sauron's ring. You gotta root out your Baromirs or you're all gonna end up with Sean Bean arrows to the chest, right? How do you do it? Well, one of the easiest ways to do it is to be in the wrong and apologize and see how they handle power over you. All right. It is so powerful to think of apologies and opportunity. Yeah. Because if you handle apologies well, you get so close. like if you handle conflict, does not drive people apart. Abuse, hostility, bullying, not listening, being defensive, win-lose negotiations, those all drive people apart. Conflict and wrongdoing can bring people so close together, because if you successfully negotiate wrongdoing and apologies, and you successfully negotiate conflicts, you end up closer and stronger than before.
[21:04] But you have to be willing to be shafted. Not in that fun way for the ladies, but you have to be willing to be you have to be willing to be betrayed. You have to be willing to dangle the ring of power. See who grabs at it. Be vulnerable. This vulnerability is the most powerful and self-protective thing that you can do in a relationship. I mean, it's kind of a running joke in my marriage, like how much i need my wife where are you going you know uh and you know the jokes are if i'm a little bit you know i mean it's it's just funny because i you know i absolutely want my wife to know how much i completely worship and adore her she's the center of my heart in my life and her opinion means everything to me and you know i'm as needy as as a uh a clinging vine.
[21:51] Because that's security. She has the power of happiness or unhappiness over me and she has never abused her power. I've never abused my power. You know, when people really need you, ah, now I can make them do things for me. Now I have power and I have control. Now I have influence. And all of the ground down, helium balloon held too long afterward, pops up and you grab all the power that was denied to you or ground out of you or subjugated you under when you were young. Oh, I finally got power. Nope. Resist, resist, resist. Resist, resist, resist. When you take power over others, you take love out of your heart. It's the price. It's the price.
[22:54] Power kills connection. Bullying kills love. Subjugation kills intimacy. and vulnerability tests for integrity. Does the person have the integrity to not misuse the power I give to them by being wrong and apologizing?
[23:22] There's almost nothing more powerful than vulnerability. I mean, I've been vulnerable on this show. People have seen it sort of in the past, and it's fascinating to see how people handle it. Some people, you know, I talked about the abuse I suffered as a child the sort of part of my extra Twitter conversation some people were nice some people were jerks, Being assertive and forgiving in a short period of time, says someone, is the christening of my reasonable friendship. How do they handle power? How do they handle correction? Yeah. Yeah.
[23:58] William says, Stef, I listened to a podcast on the French Revolution. I've only read a couple of books on the subject, so my knowledge is limited. But wow, what an incredibly interesting take. So glad I took the time to listen. And of course, so glad you took the time to put in the work. Really inspiring. Thank you. Well i'm incredibly proud of my history of philosophers and the history of the french revolution which is like almost 12 hours of deep philosophy in history vastly outstrips my presentation on the roman empire and premium.freedomand.com you can get it you can listen to it you can try the premium for a month see if you like it i guarantee you you'll love it I guarantee you. I guarantee you, because if you don't, you can get your money back. You don't pay, right? JP says, I remember my mother saying, I'd do anything for my kids. I told her, great, I'll find you a therapist. This will help gain back our lost bond, allow us to have better communication. She said, well, I'm not going to do that. She wants forgiveness, yet offers no restitution. Yeah, I mean, one of the things that abusive parents can do is they can offer to pay for the kid's therapy. That would be a kind of restitution, right? as a deuteronomy says uh you should pay back 120 percent of the damage right, she would do anything for love but she won't do that.
[25:26] Uh, Balmega says, I have changed over the decades as I learned better. I feel good about some things, felt bad about others. The differences I drilled down to learn why. New info, better arguments, new viewpoints led me to think and rethink. I opposed the leftists, so I thought that meant I had to be a conservative. I apologize for parroting propaganda I reject now. There's room elsewhere to oppose things from all other, freed of shame or secrets. Nice. Sounds like, yeah, we would do anything to make our employees happy, say some employers, short of spend money. Warning, philosophy with Stef can be habit-forming. Yeah, it's one of these things that I, here I am being vulnerable, it's one of these things that gives me a little bit of a facial tick, which is, Stef, you know philosophy, it's like, no, no, no, not my philosophy, not my philosophy, just philosophy. All right, can you universalize telling people to not listen to you, or the reverse. Well, I don't think I told people not to listen to me, because I would not be much of a podcaster if I told people not to listen to me, but don't do what I say. I don't tell people what to do.
[26:42] So, I mean, the analogy would be, if you're teaching your kid the times table, and, you know, you put a little Bluetooth earphone in or whatever, and you quiz them on the times table, and your wife just whispers the answers into their ear. She's just telling them what to say, but they're not learning any math. They're not memorizing anything. They're not learning any multiplication tables.
[27:06] Right, if you've got a gymnastics teacher and he just moves your body for you, just poses you like claymation, then you're not learning any gymnastics. So getting people to internalize principles liberates them from the endless need for mentorship or to be told what to do.
[27:27] So, the purpose of instruction is to not transfer answers, not to transfer questions, but to transfer a methodology for turning questions into answers. I mean, somebody could teach me, or I guess I could just learn how to, you know, ape or mime kanji, like Japanese scripts or Chinese scripts or something like that. I could just learn how to reproduce. I wouldn't have any idea what I'm doing. I wouldn't learn the language, right? This is what I quoted on X, because in this debate about forgiveness, there were lots of people who were just quoting Bible stuff at me or theological stuff at me and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. It's like, well, don't quote me rules. If I learn sounds, I'm not learning language. If I learn mere numbers, I'm not learning math.
[28:28] If I follow rules, I'm not being moral. Only moral reasoning is moral when I know why I'm doing what I'm doing. Only that is moral. And people quote rules with me as if that means anything. Well, it just means that they can't yet think.
[28:50] And most of humanity, of course, is in a state of pre-thinking, pre-thought.
[29:03] All right what have we got here i believe we got ourselves a caller pterodraca, are you with me my friend.
[29:20] Yes sir what's on your mind all right there's uh been a lot of division among libertarians online i found about the matter of borders and i think it's one of those things that honestly i think both sides are doing a very poor job of explaining and expressing so i have my own thoughts on it but i wanted to get a second opinion to see if i'm getting the right idea if i'm way off or just trying to get another perspective on it go for it do you want to explain to people the general issue around libertarians and borders okay so on one side you've got those who attack the very idea of borders saying it's in it's inherently wrong now i do agree with the state enforcing it is inherently wrong because well obviously, and but on the other side there's people there's people saying borders are necessary and that's one thing we do need the state for which i think they're kind of defeating the whole point of libertarianism right there, And so I've taken the position that the very idea of borders isn't wrong. I think they would still exist even without a state, just like police courts and things like that would still exist. They just wouldn't be handled by one single monopoly at the point of a gun.
[30:34] And I get attacked as a borderitarian. That's one of these buzzwords they like to use. Oh, as long as you have a label, you don't need an argument, apparently. Oh, yeah, I get that all the time. And so, and I've said, and the example I give when people say people have a right to live wherever they want, I say, okay, if some community won't sell or rent you any place to live because they don't want you around, do you have the right to force your way in anyway? Obviously not. So no, you don't have the right to live wherever you want. There has to be some kind of a bargain struck. And of course, they also bring up the issue of homesteading, which, yeah, I don't think anyone would have a problem with that. But the thing is, let's be honest with ourselves. Are the migrants people talking about doing that? No, it's something else entirely. So, well, of course, mass human movement is a government program, largely driven by incentives such as the welfare state or free health care or other forms of economic subsidies. So.
[31:35] Mass human movement is a statist program. It didn't exist really before the welfare state.
[31:42] So, of course, people would buy land. They would homestead land or infuse their labor into the land or whatever, make the land their own, and then people wouldn't be able to live there. If there's, I don't know, let's take sort of the cliched example of gypsies in Europe, right? So gypsies in Europe are sort of notoriously, though not 100%, of course, right? Sort of notoriously, you know, not particularly smart and, you know, a little bit on the thievy side and so on. Again, tons of exceptions, but whatever. There seems to be this prejudice, whether you can agree with it or not, about gypsies in Europe. Okay. So let's say there's a community that doesn't really want gypsies around. Are they allowed to not rent property or sell property to gypsies? Well, sure, you can't force people to do business with others. Forced association is a violation of freedom of association. You might disagree with that and you might say, well, my gosh, you know, the gypsies are wonderful. They always return their shopping carts to the right place. They never double dip in the chip dip. And, you know, at night after the children leave and the birds leave, they do everything they can to clean the local play parks, right? So whatever. Okay, then you can make that case and you can attempt to combat that prejudice and see if you can overturn it. fantastic. Or you can buy a property and you can invite all of the, what do they call the Roma? Sometimes all of the gypsies can come and live with you. And that's, I mean, that's fine.
[33:10] So it is just a private property issue. And the other thing too, of course, is that, if you invite people to live in a particular community, let's say from overseas, and I go into this in my novel, which you should definitely read if you haven't, everyone here, it's called the future, which is how a free society works and is a damn fine drama as well, I dare say.
[33:36] If you invite someone in from another country, then you should be liable for any crimes they might commit, anything negative that might happen that is a significant breaking of social rules and so on. And I think if most people were to accept that liability, most other people would say, okay, well, you've got skin in the game, right? The problem, of course, with the sort of mass human movement is A, it's a government program and B, those who advocate it either have positive economic incentives, particularly in America, because, of course, people who are in America illegally are counted as part of the census, and that swells your representation in Congress. So it's a mere grab for political power. So, yeah, so I think that as far as borders go, there are always borders. We have borders to our bodies called our skin. We have borders to our houses called walls. We have borders to our property called fences. So borders are essential. The fact that there are statist borders doesn't mean that the borders are good or bad. It just means that they're bad because they're run by the state. But private borders, I think, would be much more effective and would certainly exist.
[34:41] People want to live in high trust communities and they're going to take the steps to work to achieve that. Does that make sense? I'm not saying is that some sort of final answer because it's a big issue, but that's what I'm saying sort of makes sense. It's pretty much what I've said. I mean, I've asked these people point blank. Okay, could you imagine a community of like very family-oriented community being okay with a bunch of druggies moving in?
[35:02] Obviously not. And they won't answer that. They get kind of evasive when I bring up examples like that.
[35:09] Yeah, I mean, I don't want to over-psychologize people, which is kind of a tautology, but, I think people have trouble with boundaries in their relationships, and I think psychologically that transforms into having problems with borders in property. All right. Is there anything else you wanted to mention about that? I think that about covers it. Great to talk to you again. Yeah, nice to chat with you again. And sorry, you were going to say? Yeah, I've called it with your old show back in the YouTube days twice before. Oh, nice. Nice.
[35:43] Somebody says, there's an origin to the phrase being gypped means having been defrauded. Oh, is that right?
[35:48] That's interesting. Oh, interesting. Yeah, that's interesting.
[35:50] Well, just look up average IQ in Roma. And again it's not perfect but um it's it's it's an important data point it's not defining but it's an important uh data a data point and of course for for libertarians i wouldn't i'll do this rant every time so i'll keep it very brief but for libertarians to complain about border this and border that it's like you know close to 20 years ago i told libertarians exactly how to achieve a free society focus on the reduction of child abuse and i gave all of the data points all of the science i interviewed the experts i put entire presentations together it is an absolutely irrefutable case absolutely irrefutable case and they won't do it they won't do it in the same way like i posted about how most atheists reject god not because they dislike anti-rationality or irrationality but because they wish to evade or escape moral rules people say well where's your source it's like bro i've worked in and around the atheist community for 40 years and when i gave the atheist the greatest gift of all i feel the urge to burst into song but i will resist for the sake of your eardrums but when i gave libertarians the greatest gift of all which was a completely airtight rational proof of secular morality they didn't care they didn't want it they didn't right Because there was no point.
[37:19] In fact, it was entirely corrupt to get rid of the church without having a morality that substituted for it in the place of religious morality. That's like driving people in the middle of a terrible storm out of a church into the fields or the woods with branches crashing all around and beasts hunting and haunting through the undergrowth.
[37:42] Because you say, well, the church is not the right place. It's like, okay, can you build a new place before you drive people out of the only shelter?
[37:48] That they've known, can you build something new to provide shelter in the storm when you're driving people out if they're the only home they have? But they didn't want to do it. So that's not just a theory. Sorry, you were going to say something? No, if it's any consolation, I am an atheist and I do advocate your own moral principles. I read you, BB. I still have it somewhere. Oh, it's in your conscience, baby. All right. Well, thanks, man. I appreciate it. I'd love to chat again and let us go to eat raw meat is that an only fans, Hi. Yes, sir. It's good to speak with you. I've been watching your show for several years now. And just thanks for doing what you're doing, speaking out.
[38:32] I had kind of a it's kind of a it's not political, but I just was wondering and maybe you're reading here. I typed a little bit of my premise of my question. You know, what do you what do you think about this logic? You know, I've been eating raw meat for seven years. People saying I can't do it. But I know a lot of people who do it. And basically, just for the viewers who maybe can't see, my question there is, if we were designed by a creator or God to eat meat, like everything else that eats meat, every other animal eats it raw. So why shouldn't humans eat it raw? And to add on to that, it's observable that when we cook meat, it loses nutrients. And it also creates things like lipid peroxides, advanced glycation end products, things that are not good for our health. So how does it reason that we evolve from eating less nutritious and possibly damaging things? I just was wondering your take on that.
[39:32] I'm not sure what, I mean, I'm happy to listen to the topic. I don't have any particular philosophical content. You don't want to go with the pure argument from nature, right? Human animals don't naturally eat antibiotics, but we'll take antibiotics if we're sick. Animals don't usually build houses, but we build houses. Animals don't take out umbrellas in the rain, but we have... So you don't want to go with, well, if animals do it, we should do it too, because that would be to deny some of our nature as human beings. So, but I don't have any particular comments on the health or nutritional benefits and drawbacks of eating raw meat. Obviously, I've been goosed like everyone by those signs in the restaurants, eating raw meat, eating raw seafood, or eating undercooked, blah, blah, blah. So your argument is that it is, better to eat raw meat is that right yes um i believe so um in my it's more than a belief it's how you live right absolutely yeah so um yeah the fellow uh agonist vonder planets he.
[40:41] Synthesized many different nutritionists and anthropologists um that him observing people who eat raw animal products and the benefits for their health and he applied this logic to his health and many of his clients, a lot of people with cancer, Lyme disease, MS, that sort of thing. So yeah, that's just kind of how I eat. PrimalDiet.net. The book is We Want to Live by Igenus Vonderplanet. It's kind of his story and a little bit about the diet. So I know, I recall you maybe had some health issues, maybe cancer or something some years back. Sorry, that's a bit of a cliffhanger to end on.
[41:24] Oh sorry maybe my uh connection's cutting out no i just was mentioning the book no i got that but then you said and you had cancer yes which i did some years oh sorry yes and then i thought there was an additional thought not just mentioning that i have cancer oh no no no i just glad to see you're doing well so um yeah so i just was uh yeah i just was kind of curious about you know your take on that on my logic and your you know the meme not an argument um sort of thing So I just, yeah, I just thought I'd pop in and just. Yeah, and I appreciate that. Listen, obviously, people want to research this on their own. I don't have any particular thoughts about it because I'm not knowledgeable in these particular realms. All right. Sean, Sean, Sean, Sean, what is on your mind, my friend?
[42:14] Sean, you called. What is on your mind? you might need to unmute at your end you're not muted on my end.
[42:21] Yes hello yes sir awesome hey Stef super happy to uh chat with you um you know on the subject of forgiveness and vulnerability and everything i listened to your podcast a couple days ago on it and that actually happened to be my father's birthday yesterday and uh my relationship between my parents has been very poor for about the past decade so i just sorry
[42:46] When you say sorry when you say your relationship between your parents you mean your relationship with each of your parents i'm sorry to be nitpicky i just want to not not your parents relationship with each other.
[42:54] No with with with their uh their child yeah with their adult child okay
[42:59] Got it me.
[43:00] Um so i decided to uh you know extend the olive branch wish him a happy birthday um even though hang on hang on backstory
[43:09] I don't know how to judge I can't watch the movie in the last five minutes and think I know what's going on.
[43:14] Oh sure what's
[43:14] Your backstory with your parents.
[43:18] So basically, as a young child, they had an idea for what my career would be, and they wanted me to be either an electrician or work in construction. And as a child, I said, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll do this, right? And then you get older, and they had me go to trade school. And then I eventually decided, I actually don't want to do this. And that's where kind of a rift started between my parents and I, where, you know, I come from a traditional Catholic family, and there's a lot of shame toward not wanting to be in the construction field. So it just kind of made this...
[43:56] Sorry, what? So are these things causal is in general? I don't think it's the case in general. The Catholic families put shame to their kids for not wanting to be in the construction. So it's that they're Catholic, and then your family in particular wants you in the construction business. Is that right?
[44:12] Yeah, and it was just this big rift where they didn't support anything I did outside of that, including, you know, not doing like... I guess it also brings into question, what are our parents' responsibilities and whether or not those are being met? For example, I ended up doing other jobs and there was always this shame-based attitude toward me for not wanting to get my hands dirty and not wanting to do this. And then going to college and there just being this general disdain that neither of them were educated and, you know, college educated. So it wasn't something they really supported. And I kind of felt like I was arguing, arguing with the TV, something I heard, I think, I think you say where my, my father would watch Fox news and he's here, you know, Tucker Carlson saying that all these college students are going in the debt. They don't have jobs. And he was just anti-anything education. So it really destroyed- Hang on,
[45:27] Hang on. This is not anti-anything education. I mean, he doesn't care if you read a book on history and he obviously wanted you to graduate high school. So just to be precise, he was more against an arts education in modern universities. Is that the right? I'm sorry, I don't mean to put words in your mouth, but is that sort of what you're talking about?
[45:44] No, it was anything that had to do with loans specifically because my sister failed out of college and my other sister got in the debt, which she paid off. So, you know, I was kind of punished for how my other sister did in college. And they refused to, you know, and this is me at 20 years old. And they would refuse to give me information to take out loans. So I'd have to, you know, pay for college by semester. And they, you know, always very, um, Always very mean-spirited and spiteful toward what I wanted to do.
[46:29] Sorry, and I'm obviously not disagreeing with you, but if you can flesh that out a little bit, would they call your name? Is it the raise your voice? Were they threatening or just scornful or skeptical? Just give me a sense of what happened in the conversations.
[46:41] Scornful, skeptical, and really made me feel like I didn't deserve to have the opportunity to kind of self-fulfill how I wanted and really rubbing it in my face that they did not want to help me.
[47:00] And sorry, then they helped your sisters. You said your two sisters, right?
[47:06] They helped them in the idea that they didn't gatekeep them from higher education, as in they gave them the tax information. You know, I know you're Canadian, but in America, you need your parents' tax information to get loans for college.
[47:24] Okay, so they facilitated your sister's going to university, but they didn't want you to go to university. And in part, you're saying that was because one of your sisters messed up and got too much into debt?
[47:36] Uh yeah and they and they uh basically felt that um if i went to college then i would just flunk out and never pay off the debt and leave it to them and um and what
[47:51] Did you want to take in college.
[47:52] I was always interested in finance did
[47:58] They not think that a financial degree or degree in finance would be economically productive?
[48:04] They never cared. It really wasn't something they were interested in talking about because from their point of view, you know, being an electrician is very practical. So why go into, you know, debt for something else? And it was always about me not wanting to get my hands dirty.
[48:24] You know, and how would you, sorry to interrupt, how were you disciplined as a child when you did something your parents disapproved of.
[48:30] Um as a young child they would like you know take video games away something like that and then as you know more of my teen years it was more just kind of getting yelled at and then that was it okay
[48:51] So they didn't hit and did they call you names when they yelled at you or would they just like it's bad but not like you're selfish you're a jerk or something like that.
[48:59] Yeah like they would call me stupid they would call me a loser they would hold things against me that i did in the past that they didn't approve of um and i think you know it's uh you know, what, what kind of fucks me up is that they would always call me entitled, but like, but like the things I would be asking for are things I think that are kind of basic, you know, like, Hey, can I like, um, but you know, I actually stopped asking for things. So from like 16 onward, you know, I just paid for everything, right. Car insurance, you know, my dad actually did help me out with my first car, you know, so I'm sorry.
[49:44] Why, I'm sorry. Why would they call you loser and stupid? What was their belief around that or justification?
[49:52] The name calling didn't really start a lot until I was about 20, 1920. And it was because they didn't, well, at that time, they didn't approve of the job I was doing, which I was doing a sales job in Boston. And it was something I really liked. you know, it was there, you know, you definitely couldn't question whether or not I worked hard because I would commute an hour into Boston. I would work in a sales office. I'd go door to door. I did the job for two years. Um, you know, it was 12 hour days, you know, uh, so, so like, you know, and, but the thing is, is that I learned a lot from that job. I learned, uh, you know,
[50:38] Sorry, sorry. What was their objection to sales? Yeah.
[50:41] Is that I was selling snake oil.
[50:44] Oh, they thought that the product was dishonest or fraudulent?
[50:47] Well, the product is kind of interesting because I was doing, first I was doing business to business Verizon. And then.
[50:55] Okay. So, sorry. Verizon is not snake oil, right?
[50:58] Well, that one was a snake oil. And then.
[51:01] Sorry. How was Verizon? I mean, they just sell phone products, don't they? How is that snake oil?
[51:06] Well, no, that isn't. But the next thing I sold, they were saying was snake oil, which was, um, you ever hear of the Obama phones?
[51:15] I do. I remember doing a video with some woman growling in a very faded way about the Obama phones.
[51:21] You're talking to the number one Obama phone salesperson in America for six months straight.
[51:26] But weren't they free? How do you sell the free thing?
[51:28] Yeah, of course. Well, what you do is that somebody would have a, you know, Medicaid or food stamps and you would either go to a food bank or go to the office where people would get the cards and you'd have a tablet and you'd be able to sign them up for a phone, obviously paid for by the federal government. And then the company and myself would get a commission for it. And I had myself and I grew a sales team of people underneath me. I was training, leading, teaching people how to do it.
[52:01] I assume that you're somewhat into libertarianism or ANCAP or something now. I assume this is just quite a long time ago now. I assume this is before all of that for you, right?
[52:13] This was back in 2013, 2014.
[52:18] Yeah.
[52:19] Yeah. And I think at that time, I was pretty politically naive.
[52:22] I just- Yeah, just like, here's a good job, the government pays, as opposed to, you know, there are elements of corruption and statism and all of that, right? Right.
[52:31] Yeah, and it was fun. You're running around with a tablet signing people up, and you're getting paid three bucks at whack. And you sign up 100 people in a day, and you're a young guy in a suit talking to people around.
[52:42] I'm sorry, but what did your parents say were their objections to your working with the Obamaphone world?
[52:49] That it was snake oil, and I was wasting my time, and that my boss was manipulating me, and I should go to college instead of doing that.
[53:02] Wait, you should go to college? I thought they hated college.
[53:05] They did until I started going to college after.
[53:10] What? They hated college and sorry, they loved college until you started going there and then they hated college.
[53:16] But I waited too long. I worked that job too long to then go to college. This is how this is then moving to goalposts, right? So, hey, you're 21 years old. working this job, you're better off going to college. Okay, well, I worked that job until I was 23. Now I'm ready to go to college. Okay, well, now you're too old to go to college.
[53:36] Okay, got it. All right, so I appreciate that. Is there anything else that is important with your relationship with your parents post this early 20s stuff?
[53:51] Yeah, it was just a lot of shame. It was just a lot of being ashamed, thinking, telling me that I think I'm way better than I am. For example, they paid for my braces when I was younger and I lost my retainer when I was younger.
[54:07] As everyone does at one time or another.
[54:09] Then I paid to get my teeth straightened again and then they said that I was you know they said that I was like it was wrong for me to, you know, I think that I'm so good that I want to get my teeth straightened again and then I asked them for a little bit of like financial help. And they said, no, this is our money. You chose a different path. You chose a different path than we chose for you. And, um, you know, our money isn't your money. And, uh, you know, and the hard part for me with that is that they're going on vacation, buying new vehicles.
[54:48] How old were you and how much money did you ask for?
[54:51] It didn't matter how much money I, I wasn't even like I was asking for like, like, like I was, I was asking for more than like nothing, you know, like, like I asked for, um, I asked for help. I asked for help and their immediate interpretation of help.
[55:07] Okay. Sorry. And you don't have to give me the sum of course. Right. But it was more than a candy bar and less than a down payment on a house. Right.
[55:13] There was, there was never even any, um, amounts discussed because I lived in their house for free and
[55:22] What age were you again.
[55:23] Uh you know living you know this was a theme since i was 18 but i was probably you know i was always reminded how old i was okay
[55:34] Hang on but you don't have to answer my question but i'd prefer it if you acknowledge that i asked it.
[55:38] My apologies 20 let's say uh this was a theme from 22 to 23 okay
[55:46] So this is your obama phone days you're living at home. And okay. So, so, uh, and how old are you now?
[55:54] 31.
[55:55] Okay. So, uh, is there anything before we get to the present? Is there anything else that's significant? Uh, did you get married? Did they diss your wife or anything like that?
[56:04] Uh, no, it was just a complete feeling of, uh, sabotage, uh, and betrayal and neglect. And when they kicked me, when they kicked me out of the house at 24, um and just that's
[56:21] Not totally uh that's not totally uh odd right it's not like you were 14.
[56:25] No it's not totally odd but but um it was after so this is so this is after i stopped doing the job that they hated i uh went to school i was doing really well in school but this uh but between working full-time and being in school full-time and this, uh, very negative attitude from my parents and then death in my family, I kind of spiraled out. They said, we told you so you never were meant for school. You were supposed to be a plumber. Like we told you to. And then I tried and, and I tried the plumbing thing three or four different times and it never worked. And, And they never understood how what they did, how negatively it affected me. And like, they don't remember, you know, they have like selective memory on all of it.
[57:35] Okay. So, and you said, if I remember, sorry, this is going back to the beginning. You said something like your relationship has not been great for like 10 years, right?
[57:46] Yeah, it's been very bad. And it's just been, it's, it's really been, it's just been really difficult for me because I can't trust my own parents. And that has had downstream effects in my life, in my relationships, you know, in a lot of places in my life, I've had this overhanging negative feeling, uh, from the way that they treated me. Um, and just, no,
[58:15] No, no, no, no. Hang on, hang on, hang on.
[58:16] Yep.
[58:17] It's not from the way they treated you. There is no direct connection between how we're treated and what we think now of course parents have a big influence so that's going to be your initial starting place but you have of course and you know this you have a responsibility to evaluate how you are evaluated by others i mean listen i can tell you this from personal experience a lot of people have said that i'm like the worst guy around, you do have to really rigorously evaluate how people are evaluating you. And if the people who are evaluating you are themselves deficient, then we downgrade the respect we give to that evaluation. Now, again, these are parents, so it's a whole different metric, but it's not direct and causal. And the reason I'm saying that is that if you have, say, security problems or confidence problems because of how your parents treated you, you can't change that. You can't go back and change how they treated you. So if it's just dominoes, boom, boom, boom, they come down and they just hit you and knock you over, you can't stand up against that. If, however, there is an interpretive layer, right? If there's an interpretive layer between how you're treated and how you're treated.
[59:28] And what you think, that you can show the control, that you can change. Like my mother would say, I hate these effing children, right? She'd sort of scream that in the middle of the night, right? Now, does that mean I think that I'm hateful in some manner? Well, no. I mean, that was my mother's issues and problems. I'm actually a pretty, I mean, a nice fellow, pretty likable fellow. And so I don't, I'm not exactly wildly deficient in charisma and charm. And I have a good sense of humor. So I'm a likable person. So I have to evaluate if I said well I have insecurity because my mother said she hated me right well okay I can't undo that it's it's like branded in right it's like a tattoo that you can't get rid of it's it's branded in however if there's a layer of okay this is the stimulus.
[1:00:13] My mother says she hates me I can evaluate that and say is she right is it valid is it fair is it true was there any other reason she might be frustrated was she mature enough to deal with her frustrations in a rational and positive manner. And so I have to intercept, you know, the catcher in the rye stuff. I have to intercept like this iron dome that they have that intercepts these missiles. You have to have, people will give you stimulus all the time, all the time to try and control you with stimulus. Like somebody over here on X is like, hey man, when are you going to debate? What was it? And when are you going to debate Andrew Wilson? It's like, like that's a foregone conclusion the debate has to happen and this happens all the time of course in in social media and other places but it's like i don't know this person why on earth what i care about whether they debate or who i debate with or don't debate with or anything like that so i don't want you to have in your mind i'm sorry to be a nag but i don't want you to have in your mind that what your parents did defined issues that you have because you can none shall pass you all of this language and these verbiage that comes crawling across Balrog style from the outside world, from other people that are controlled and manipulated or damaged you in some way, don't let anything or anyone pass.
[1:01:29] Unless they have credibility and be very, very, very sparing on who you give your credibility to. So, sorry to be an egg, but I just wanted to mention that you do not have issues because of how your parents treated you, but because of your continued interpretation of what it means that they treated you in that way. But so, sorry, go ahead.
[1:01:50] No, thank you for that. No, and, you know, as time goes on, these things become, you know, they have less power over you. And I think the Iron Dome analogy is really good where, you know, maybe the missiles hit and then the buildings got rebuilt and then the Dome is back up. But when it comes to, you know, healing the relationship and forgiving them, those feelings come back because they've never really acknowledged what they did. You know, they've never acknowledged why what's wrong with it, why they shouldn't have done it. And there there was no there was never any restitution on their part whatsoever right so uh so you know i called my parents yesterday very nice wish my father a happy birthday and
[1:02:39] How long how long had it been since you'd had regular conversations with them before yesterday.
[1:02:45] Um In the last decade that I've spoken to them, I've only had maybe a dozen conversations. And that was maybe two years ago, the last time I've spoken to them.
[1:03:04] Wow. And have they pursued you or asked what's wrong or tried to fix anything?
[1:03:09] No, they fucking suck, in my opinion. But I really didn't feel better today wishing my father a happy birthday. I just felt like it was more, you know, like, oh, I'm living, I'm living my life. Everything's so great. You know, like.
[1:03:26] Sorry, who's saying that? You, you, my father.
[1:03:29] Right. You know, it's like, and, you know, hearing this stuff, right. It's like, yeah, you know, I bought a boat and I did this and I did that. And I'm just thinking back to being very vulnerable and young with no money. And my parents deliberately, you know, deliberately sabotaging me while they're also spending. And I know they're all just spending all this money. Right. And then they're saying, but you don't get any of this money. Right. So, so now, now when I interpret, now when I interpret like, yeah, we have this beautiful home on the coast and, and we have our F two 50 and our boat and this and that. It's like, yeah, and you also completely betrayed me for no other reason than, you know, you're ignorant in my opinion, right? So I'd really, you know, I tried, I listened to the Forgiveness podcast and I feel like I have to be the parent. And the worst part is that I felt worse today because it kind of brought back a lot of those disgruntled feelings toward how- Okay,
[1:04:41] So sorry to interrupt. Is this, do you think is this, what's the status of your romantic or love or marriage life? Do you think this is interfering with your capacity to love and feel worthy of love?
[1:04:55] Yeah i think i think um i think i recognize that and i told my parents that and uh you know uh i told my parents different problems i was having about five years ago and there was just uh it's kind of just like talking to a brick wall it's like well we can't sorry
[1:05:16] So what is the status of your dating life.
[1:05:17] Uh the last time i had a girlfriend and had sex was probably eight months ago, but that was only a two-month relationship. And then I had a relationship a year before that, and then I had another relationship two years before that.
[1:05:36] And how long have these relationships lasted? You said two months, what else?
[1:05:41] Two months, six months. One lasted like two years, but it really only lasted a year, and then it kind of got strung out for another year because we lived together.
[1:05:53] And why do these relationships end? I mean, I assume you want, do you want to get married and have kids?
[1:05:59] Yeah. And I've wanted that since a young age. I've always.
[1:06:03] Why did these relationships end? Do you think?
[1:06:06] The first girl. Well. Well, I don't know. I have like one girlfriend named Selena and she was just.
[1:06:21] Let's not get into names if you don't mind, but go ahead.
[1:06:23] Not a problem. One of them, she was just too young compared to me. And in my – I don't really – I don't know. I just – I never – I don't know. I feel like the whole thing with my parents really set me back.
[1:06:47] Why do your relationships end? Why?
[1:06:56] They were kind of just, I was kind of just doing, having relationships to have them, I guess. And the girls also were not the right, the girls were also not the right woman for me either. They're all.
[1:07:08] Okay. Did you know that the girls were not the right women for you when you were dating them?
[1:07:14] For the most part. Yeah.
[1:07:16] Okay. So why would you, why would you choose women? Because the relationship was not sustainable because.
[1:07:22] I'm a lonely.
[1:07:24] Yeah. Yeah, but that doesn't solve the problem of loneliness. It just postpones it and makes it worse. I mean, that's addiction, right? Because you're alone now, right? You've been alone for eight months. You've had, you mentioned three, maybe it's more, but three relatively short-term relationships.
[1:07:38] Right? I've been alone for more than a decade.
[1:07:41] Okay. So grabbing low-quality or low-compatibility women hasn't solved the problem of loneliness.
[1:07:51] No. No. And I think sometimes I would treat these women how my parents treated me.
[1:08:02] What do you mean? What would you say?
[1:08:06] Just being mean and defensive. And, you know, like my relationship with my parents at times, you know, I'm my own person, but at times it would reflect back onto my current life.
[1:08:29] So your issue, my friend, is not about forgiving your parents.
[1:08:37] Who is it about forgiving?
[1:08:46] You think it's, okay, so you think it's about me forgiving myself.
[1:08:49] You mistreated these women, right? And with no excuse, because you know exactly what it's like to be on the receiving end of what your parents did, and you did it to these women.
[1:08:59] No, not like, but not like, actually.
[1:09:02] That's what you told me.
[1:09:04] No, I said I treated them.
[1:09:06] I treated them at times the way my parents treated me. Do you remember saying something like that?
[1:09:10] Yeah, but I don't mean that, because it wasn't like.
[1:09:13] Okay, I can't have a conversation with you if you say things you don't mean.
[1:09:18] Well, it's hard to, I don't mean to say things I don't mean. I think I never treated them as poorly as my parents did to me. It's just that, and I'm sorry, I'm having trouble.
[1:09:34] Okay, in your relationships, did you leave the women or did the women leave you?
[1:09:43] I left all the women.
[1:09:45] Okay. And they wanted to continue the relationships.
[1:09:50] Two out of three felt it was mutual.
[1:09:53] Oh, it's never mutual. There's always one person who wants it more, one person who wants it less. It's never exactly the same.
[1:10:00] And they were, but they were also like very feminist, like very feminist, like not compatible. So it wouldn't have worked anyways, but. But at times.
[1:10:10] But you were mean to these women at times, if I understand this correctly.
[1:10:17] I was mean to them, but I also think I became mean because I was looking for so much approval that I became a pushover until I could no longer be that nice guy. And then I kind of flipped.
[1:10:33] So you were not assertive, and then you were over-assertive and aggressive.
[1:10:43] Yeah sure i mean i mean yeah but like nothing but nothing like stereotypical like i'm not like like my last girlfriend walked all over me you know and the previous one did too
[1:10:54] So your last girlfriend which was eight months ago for two months right.
[1:10:59] Yeah yep so
[1:11:01] You were 30 or 31 or whatever so you're in your 30s.
[1:11:04] And 29 20 yeah 30 yeah yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah, 30.
[1:11:09] Yeah, because you're 31, right? So eight months ago puts you at 30 or 31. Okay. So was there an indication at the very beginning of the relationship that she was going to walk all over you?
[1:11:23] No.
[1:11:24] So she had no signs of any aggressive personality structures at the beginning when you met her?
[1:11:31] No, she was nice and sweet and vulnerable. And then her standards just kept on climbing and climbing. And then, you know, I just wasn't good enough for her. And I think she was just, I think we were both unhappy, but she kind of signaled her unhappiness.
[1:11:49] And you said she was nice and sweet and all of that. So why would she be unhappy?
[1:11:54] Because she's miserable.
[1:11:56] Saying someone's unhappy because they're miserable is a bit circular.
[1:12:00] It is. It is circular reasoning.
[1:12:05] How old was she?
[1:12:08] 28.
[1:12:10] Okay. So why was she unhappy?
[1:12:17] In my opinion, because nothing was ever good enough. You know, like, like I would take her out to dinner, right. Or like her work was next to my house and she would get out of work and I would make dinner for us, you know, but that became too routine. You know, this is only going on a month, you know, and then, you know, and then, you know, I wasn't spending enough money on her and I should be spending more money on her.
[1:12:45] So she said that directly, you need to spend more money on me?
[1:12:49] Like like yeah like when we go out like you should be spending more money on me and like you know if we go out of town two hours away and get a hotel and and get dinner and stuff like that you know like you should be spending the money on me and we made the same money um And, uh, and like, and, and, and like we would, and, uh, she was on, um, she was on like different, like antidepressants that, that made her, you know, have trouble at times and, and like, well, okay. So like, we would like have like sexual relations and because she was on some like different medications she couldn't always orgasm and that would be my fault all the time and that would be and there was a running uh there was a running counter for how many times i didn't get her off and it was just like all these like things that and that's and that's why i say she was she was miserable is because i really made i really made like i actually made my best efforts ever in that two-month relationship, I can genuinely say that, and they were never good enough for this girl. And I actually saw her recently and said hi to her, and she was not very pleasant.
[1:14:15] Okay, so your parents were dissatisfied at your performance in school and at work, and this woman was dissatisfied in your performance in the relationship and in bed.
[1:14:31] Yeah but i don't i don't but i don't feel like i need to apologize for my to myself or forgive myself for that relationship because
[1:14:39] No you forgive yourself because you have a dream that you're not achieving you have a dream which you said you'd had for 10 years or more about settling down getting married and have children and you're further away, now than you were 10 years ago, yeah your relationships are getting shorter and your heart yep is getting more disappointed and you're getting more guarded you feel that happening right the more you date definitely definitely so you're further away do you apologize for not working in the right way to achieve the dream that you want, if your youthful self could look forward you know 18 or 19 or whenever you wanted to get married and have kids could look forward 12 years or 13 years and see where you are what would your younger self say to you.
[1:15:39] I thought you'd be further ahead
[1:15:42] You think what would your younger self say to you um.
[1:15:58] Alan, my younger self, 18, 19-year-old Sean was very enthusiastic. So he'd probably say, you got this, bro.
[1:16:10] No, he wouldn't say that because he's not an idiot. You don't got this, bro. He'd say, bro, what are you doing? It's 13 years on. We don't even have a girlfriend. Our last relationship was eight months ago for two months. We've had three, each one shorter than the last. What are you doing?
[1:16:27] I didn't even see that pattern but yeah i see that yeah i i don't know i'm i'm i'm you know i'm i'm making efforts every day to you know like get better like i'm going to the gym i'm eating clean you know i'm i'm reading you know i'm doing things to actually build equity that is nothing
[1:16:51] Relative to your dream, saying i want to be a concert pianist have you picked up any training in keyboards if you don't practice at the piano no no but but i'm learning how to play basketball it's like what the hell does that have to do with wanting to play piano.
[1:17:09] Well i'm listening to you know i realize i have some problems and i'm i'm listening to you know you like i like i I am doing things productively. I'm not sitting here masturbating or playing video games or doing things.
[1:17:24] Okay, so if you're doing things productively, why are you further away 12 or 13 years in? How can you define them as productive when you're further away from your initial goal? Well, I did want to get to Vegas. I've gone to Alaska, but I'm being productive and getting to Vegas.
[1:17:42] Uh well if you were on the wrong track and then you start to backtrack toward the right direction then i would
[1:17:50] Call it great so what is what is the evidence that you've backtracked and heading towards the right direction you're still not dating you said you've been alone for most of 10 years, And do you know what happens? Like, bro, every time, every day that you're alone, another great woman gets snapped up into a relationship, right?
[1:18:10] Yeah.
[1:18:14] Definitely. I don't get a sense of panic or urgency. I'm just telling you. I mean, maybe I'm wrong, but you seem kind of like, well, my issues are with how my parents treated me 10 years ago.
[1:18:27] Well, that's why I called in. but I don't know my, you know, I think I've, I think I'm aware of my, of, of that issue. And I've been making real efforts to, to fix that. You know, I've been like doing things to further myself actively, like, like, like recently, like in this moment I'm doing, I'm doing what I can. I mean, yeah. Can I use more of a kick in the ass to be more fired up?
[1:18:57] If you're doing everything you can and you're getting further away from your goal, you might have to give up the goal. I don't believe you are, right? But it's like if you're trying to swim upstream and you're putting your mightiest effort in and you still keep heading downstream, does it make any sense to try and go upstream anymore?
[1:19:22] I don't know. I feel like I, I'm not sure what to say because, you know, I think, I feel like the best way I can get to my goal is from, you know, getting in better shape, becoming more attractive, you know, becoming more articulate, you know, you know, sharpening my swords wherever I can, you know, you know, being better dressed, you know, approaching woman, like, like I can do those things and I'm actively working and trying on doing those things as well as, as well as self-reflecting on some things that are holding me back, you know, I think I'm doing all that.
[1:19:56] Okay, what are your top three qualities you're looking for in a wife?
[1:20:13] Conservative.
[1:20:15] Okay. And how long have you known that you want a conservative wife?
[1:20:27] Probably, well, too long. Too long is the answer, but probably five or six years.
[1:20:31] Okay. So if you want a conservative wife, why do you date feminists?
[1:20:38] I think it's because of the availability of a woman in my area. Yeah. Okay because i'm i'm i think i'm actually kind of close to you i'm i'm in the northeast top region of the u.s so um so my my current goal is is to be renting out my house and moving somewhere no
[1:20:57] No no no i don't care sorry.
[1:20:59] Okay okay okay so
[1:21:01] You because you're like a guy who says i want to lose weight right so what do you need to do to lose weight stop eating cheesecake have you stopped eating cheesecake god no.
[1:21:09] I go i think my my point just to go back really quickly is that I think I need to go to a different pond to fish.
[1:21:17] Okay. So that's number one. Is it conservative? What's number two?
[1:21:21] She has to be attractive. And then number three would be a good head on her shoulders slash she does actually want to have kids.
[1:21:31] She does want to have kids. Okay. And did the last woman, she was not a conservative. She did not have a good head on her shoulders. No. And did she want to have kids?
[1:21:43] She was no her her goal was to go back to school but that's what she that's what she's doing she was
[1:21:51] The polar opposite of what you say you want.
[1:21:53] Yeah she correct correct yep well
[1:21:58] It's not complicated then is it, See, here's what I think is going on. I could be wrong. Could be talking entirely out of my armpits. So if I'm wrong, you can discard everything I'm saying. Are you ready, Sean, to have your life blown wide open?
[1:22:13] This is recorded, right?
[1:22:15] Yeah.
[1:22:16] Okay. Yeah, I'm ready.
[1:22:18] You're ready. All right. And I say this with great sympathy and compassion. I really do, brother. Like most people who've been unjustly and excessively criticized you have a tough time criticizing yourself because it feels like you're abusing yourself because the feedback you got that was critical from your parents sounds like it was a little bit on the abusive side, so because your parents were way too harsh in their criticism of you you have trouble criticizing yourself, because it feels like you're being bullied like your parents bullied you. So because you have trouble criticizing yourself, you are too indulgent with your own desires. Well, she's hot. Oh, she's sexually available. My balls are full. I'm throwing my standards to the wind.
[1:23:17] Yeah.
[1:23:18] Right? So you have trouble with self-discipline. And again, I say this with sympathy. You have trouble with self-discipline because you were too harshly attacked as a child and self-discipline feels like abuse. Next time your balls want to go wandering around playing castanets near a feminist.
[1:23:37] Maybe get an ice glove and punch him where the sun don't shine. But you need discipline. it. What are my goals? Get married. What do I need? These three things. Am I going to date someone who doesn't have these three things? No. If I need to move, I need to move. But goals require discipline. And discipline feels like abuse to people who've been over criticized. You rubbed raw, you're sensitive. It's like going out into the sun when you've got a sunburn it hurts and i'm sorry like your parents over criticized you i mean they were too harsh they were too negative and that's really a desperate shame and i'm really i sympathize with that enormously the fact that they called you stupid and the loser is appalling parents know the power they have they should never ever ever please parents out there you cannot call your children stupid and losers, because you made them. That's on you. So I'm sorry that you got so harshly criticized, but don't let that have you drop all standards.
[1:24:49] You have a standard. Three, if you don't stick to them, you don't get married. It's really that simple. It's like saying, well, I got to drive a thousand miles, but there's no way I'm filling up my gas tank it's like well you're not going to get there like i guarantee you're not going to get there you can't go a thousand miles on a single gas tank so you got these rules stick by the fucking rules i want to lose weight what does that mean well i have to eat fewer calories.
[1:25:26] Right yeah no
[1:25:27] Correct and so if you don't if you eat more calories than you burn you gain weight if If you eat less calories, you have to just stick with it or give up the goal of losing weight. But there's just discipline. And look, I think most people are imperfect with discipline. Discipline is a complicated thing in terms of its nuances. But this is relatively simple. You have these goals of what it is that you're looking for. And every time you don't follow those goals, you put yourself at risk and you put your goal on ice. But self-discipline feels like your parents yelling at you, so you avoid it. And again, I understand that. I sympathize with that. But I'm just telling you, I think that's what's going on.
[1:26:17] You clocked it pretty accurately. Yeah, discipline is hard. And I think you're correct that I am further away than I expected myself to be. And the only productive thing that i have done was realizing you know partially with you but also starting to make some of those some changes i need to get to where i want to be you know
[1:26:43] Well so of the things that you said that you were doing none of them is on the list of what you want going to the gym you didn't mention anything about the woman but you said being attractive but you didn't say be athletic or be buff or anything like that right right you said have a good head on her shoulders, but as far as you achieving this goal, you couldn't be going about it in a worse way. And again, I say that with sympathy.
[1:27:06] Wait, what do you mean by that?
[1:27:08] Well, do you have a good head on your shoulders and who you date?
[1:27:13] Not historically.
[1:27:16] Okay. Let us take as a given that I'm not talking about things that haven't happened yet.
[1:27:21] Yeah, no, you're right.
[1:27:22] Let's just take that as a given. I'm not talking about the year 2084. Let's just take that as a given, right? Yep, yes. And you also said, I want her to be a conservative. Are you dating as a conservative? Not are you dating conservatives, but no, you're not. Do conservatives date feminists?
[1:27:47] No.
[1:27:48] No. So you are not dating as a conservative. In other words, a woman looking at you, who's a conservative, who wants a conservative, will she see a conservative? Indeed, not words, but will she see a conservative?
[1:28:06] At this moment?
[1:28:08] No, not at this moment. This is part of the lack of self-criticism.
[1:28:14] No, she would not.
[1:28:15] Well, not at this moment. But at this moment, you're not dating at all.
[1:28:19] It's like, yeah, I'm registered conservative. But your point is, when she looks at me, is she interpreting that I'm a conservative? That's what you mean?
[1:28:30] Well, do your actions speak or scream conservative to an objective observer? Have you ever dated a woman who is a sincere and deep conservative?
[1:28:46] Yes.
[1:28:47] Okay. So which one of the, was that the eight month, sorry, was that the two month or the other one or the one that was two years, but should only have been a year?
[1:28:56] That one was back when I was 18 before I, while I still lived at home and she was just like, you know, she was hairdresser and nice, didn't care about politics. Just just just a girl you know didn't care about all these so
[1:29:13] Sorry i'm i'm.
[1:29:15] Yep dating
[1:29:16] Hairdressers is dangerous but not as dangerous as dating nurses so in what way and i'm not disagreeing with you but in what way was she a conservative when you were 18.
[1:29:24] Um and it's funny you say the nursing the last girlfriend was a nurse but um but uh but she was conservative in the fact, and this was kind of a different time as well, right? But she didn't care about politics. I specifically remember her being like, yeah, politics, I don't get it. I don't really care about it.
[1:29:51] Isn't conservative to some degree a political orientation?
[1:29:56] Yeah, but I also think not being liberal is being conservative as well. in my okay
[1:30:03] So she wasn't specifically a conservative she just didn't care about politics and wasn't specifically a liberal.
[1:30:08] And i yeah and i would say i would say she was conservative in the sense that she was just more traditional it wasn't you know there wasn't like uh there was never talk of feminism or like and how
[1:30:19] Long did you date this woman for.
[1:30:21] Um Probably close to close to a year.
[1:30:28] Okay. And why did that end?
[1:30:31] Because I had this job in Boston where I was meeting all these different girls and I was young and
[1:30:38] You cheated on her.
[1:30:40] No, we just broke up. I didn't cheat on her. I've never cheated on a woman.
[1:30:42] Okay. Why did you break up then?
[1:30:47] Because I had this like nice office job in the city and I was meeting all these college girls that I was chatting with.
[1:30:56] So you wanted to sleep with other women?
[1:31:01] Yeah, I think yeah,
[1:31:04] I also If you want to be conservative if you want to be masculine, give me some damn direct answers. All of this fog is going to drive conservative women away from you.
[1:31:14] Yeah, I just Well,
[1:31:17] I was in Boston and I had this office job. There were all these hot college co-eds around. So you wanted to sleep with other women? yes yes thank you okay let's just be direct is it conservative to break up with a conservative woman in order to date liberal women.
[1:31:36] No it isn't no and i
[1:31:38] So is it is it conservative to give up on the possibility of love for the sake of money no so you moved away in part for money right to have a good job yeah.
[1:31:50] I was like yeah i I was like, exactly, yeah.
[1:31:53] Okay, so how do you know you're a conservative if everything you do is the opposite?
[1:32:03] Um, I think in principle, I'm a conservative, I think- No,
[1:32:09] No. Principle, I don't care about principle. I care about empiricism, right? That's like, I know. So the last woman you dated was a woke feminist nurse, right?
[1:32:23] Yes. And the girl before that was also a feminist and- I know,
[1:32:32] You told me you date feminists. Except for the conservative women who you dumped so you could sleep with feminists.
[1:32:42] Yeah. And I mean, I was, I was 19. So I think I wasn't thinking long-term out like that, you know, but yeah, you're, you're right. My only excuse is being young and young, just being young and stupid.
[1:32:54] Okay. And, and, and untrained, right. Without a mentor, without a father figure who you respected so again i sympathize with all of that but i don't know if you want to attract a conservative woman i have an idea that maybe you might want to do something that's a little fucking conservative from time to time well.
[1:33:14] What's what's conservative because i thought
[1:33:16] What you're doing do what you're doing but the opposite, what's north well you're going south just turn around.
[1:33:24] I feel like it's not like I have a pride flag on my house. It's not like I – Okay,
[1:33:29] Are you going to start to make excuses?
[1:33:31] No, I'm just – You are.
[1:33:33] You're making excuses. Do you think it's more dangerous to have some woke flag hanging from your house or to date a woke feminist who makes fun of your sexual prowess or mocks you or attacks you, because she's too saturated with antidepressants to get a good O on.
[1:33:57] Yeah, probably dating the feminist, yeah.
[1:34:02] So, stop being a liberal in your pants. Stop being dick-napped by the pride flag. Go around conservatives and start acting like a damn conservative if you want a conservative woman. Because a conservative woman is going to say at some point, hey, what's your dating life been like? And you're like, oh, yeah, no, I keep dating these feminists. Oh, and I dumped a conservative girl so I could date more feminists. And my last girlfriend was a super woke feminist.
[1:34:38] Is she going to be like yeah sounds like you've got a lot of experience handling a conservative woman so bye check it's a good thing that conservative women are slender do you know why? Because she's going to need to wriggle out through that tiny window in the bathroom of the restaurant, where are you going to meet these conservative women? where are you going to meet these conservative women?
[1:35:11] You know The stereotypical answer is church Right
[1:35:16] Why are you not giving me a direct answer No.
[1:35:19] Okay where do you meet Conservative women at conservative events You meet them
[1:35:23] Where are you going I didn't ask you for some theory.
[1:35:30] I don't I go downtown town i go
[1:35:33] Okay conservative women downtown i.
[1:35:37] Don't know where the fuck they are to be honest
[1:35:39] You just told me you gotta go to church so don't tell me you don't know what you just gave me an answer are that question would there generally be more conservative women at church or downtown i.
[1:35:51] Think actually let me i think where the conservative woman they're down south right
[1:35:58] I don't know. Okay.
[1:36:00] They're down south. There's a lot more conservative fish in the south than the northeast.
[1:36:09] Okay. So have you put your dating profile on an app and looked for women in the south?
[1:36:16] No.
[1:36:18] So you don't really want a conservative woman? You want to get your heart broken and your balls busted by these feminists? The leftists? Empirically.
[1:36:29] I love punishment.
[1:36:31] Well, I mean, your parents punished you unjustly. Maybe the dating thing is a continuation of a repetition compulsion. I don't know. But you've got to start planning some of this stuff and stop just being led around by a trauma and history and lust. Are you religious yourself?
[1:36:49] Yes.
[1:36:51] Do you go to church?
[1:36:55] No.
[1:36:56] Well, at least your consistency is inconsistent. And all of your inconsistency is consistent, too.
[1:37:06] Yep. Yeah, exactly.
[1:37:08] All right. So, listen, I mean, I know we've been joking around a bit. And listen, I say this with all affection. I obviously want you to find love and be happy, but you've got to get your shit together and start getting organized, man, because this isn't working, right?
[1:37:22] No, it's not working, no.
[1:37:23] Yeah, and listen, I'm sorry that you didn't get the right mentoring, and I'm sorry your parents are too harsh. And I really, I really, I don't want you to come out of this thinking like Stef is just chewing me out with no compassion. Like I really, really, I feel, I'm very sorry for all of that. And it's, it's a, it's a tough, it's a tough road to hoe for those who haven't been through being unmentored. It's, it's really tough. And I, I just, I really want to express my deep, deep sympathy for that, you know, but that having been said, you got to get your shit together. You're in your thirties and time is running out for you. If you want a woman roughly your own age.
[1:37:55] Yeah. Especially if I want some kids. yeah i do want kids
[1:37:59] Okay then get to it get to it and have a plan and you know what to do again you don't mean to tell you what to do if you had a plan saying okay conservative attractive good head on our shoulders i've got to be conservative i've got to be attractive and maybe the gym thing is something don't go to the gym and i gotta have a good head on my shoulders but i have to live my values. You don't want a woman who claims to be conservative, but just dated all of the queued up leftist, limp-wristed soy boys known to man, God, and the devil, right?
[1:38:36] Right.
[1:38:37] So you want someone who's living their values, right?
[1:38:42] Yes.
[1:38:43] So you got to live your values first, which means stop dating people who oppose your values and then complain that you're alone. And I say this because I want you to be happily married and be a great dad. And everybody who listens to my show, I want them to get married and be parents. And so I'm working my ass to a fine toothpick consistency, trying to get what I think needs to happen across to you, if that makes sense.
[1:39:06] No, it makes sense, Stef. And it's deeply appreciated. And I just want to say that what you said to me, it's landed and I listened to it. And I'm going to listen back to this too, but you weren't, you weren't too hard on me. And it's everything I've needed, needed to hear. Um, I guess my, my only final question is, is regarding my parents, do I, do I just accept the fact that, you know, they're flawed and they're really never going to come around to being able to, you know, um, um, I don't know. I should probably just really just take what I can get.
[1:39:52] Ask the question. You know what you want to ask. I know what you want to ask. Just say it.
[1:39:57] Should I just accept them as they are? And that's it. And just basically, I mean, I guess what I'm saying is, should I just accept things as they are?
[1:40:10] So you're in a relationship with your parents on the desperate hope that they're going to become the opposite of who they are, right?
[1:40:19] With the understanding that...
[1:40:22] No, no, no, no. You're in the relationship with your parents in the hope, the desperate hope that they're going to end up the opposite of who they are, right?
[1:40:30] Yes.
[1:40:31] Okay, and you're in relationships with hardcore leftists in the hope that they'll end up the opposite of who they are.
[1:40:39] Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[1:40:39] I could take my parents and turn them into loving, attentive, thoughtful parents oh i can take these leftists and turn them into conservatives you've got this weird alchemy in your mind which i understand it was a survival mechanism when you were a kid you got this weird alchemy in your mind that you can reverse people's personalities based on proximity, and you hope it with your parents and that plays out in the dating world your parents are the opposite of what you want but you will got your fingers crossed that it can turn around these women are the opposite of what you want but you've got this fingers crossed that you can turn it around it's the same pattern if you give up hope on your parents you can also give up hope on transforming a leftist into a conservative because it's not going to happen, exactly and what in what decade are your parents 60s 70s 60s 60s okay so they're in their 60s, and you've known them for three-plus decades, although I get not all consciously, right, because you were a baby. Have they shown any particular signs of growth or curiosity, or after you didn't talk to them for two years, did your dad blather on about his stupid boat?
[1:41:55] Yeah, he didn't change. He just talked about his new boat. Exactly.
[1:41:59] Right. So they will not change because they don't even admit that there's a problem. Like when you're driving home and you're absolutely certain you're going in the right direction, do you just randomly turn around?
[1:42:10] No.
[1:42:11] No. Hey, I'm three streets from my house. I've really got to pee. Do you just randomly turn down a side street and take to the sewers? No. Because you know exactly where you're going. There's no problem with where you're going. If anything, you're going to hit the gas because you've got to pee. So they don't even admit that there's any kind of problem. And people who don't admit that there's any kind of problem will never, ever, ever, ever, ever change. Ever. People who admit that there is a problem have about a 3% chance of changing on average. And I'm just saying this because maybe 5%, because if somebody who's overweight says, I'm not fat, I'm underweight, are they going to lose weight?
[1:42:54] No.
[1:42:54] No, there's no chance. Zero, 0% chance of somebody who says, I'm 250 pounds, but I'm underweight. I should be 300 pounds. They're not going to lose weight. Never. You put no money on it. It's never going to happen. Now, even the people who are 250 pounds who say, damn it, man, I got to get down to 200 pounds. I got to get down to 200 pounds. How many people dying to lose weight, their doctors tell them to lose weight, everybody praises them when they lose weight. Man you look fantastic how many people drop 50 pounds and keep it off what percentage of people who really want to lose weight lose weight and keep it off.
[1:43:38] I don't know
[1:43:38] About five percent maybe a little higher maybe a little lower but the people who lose weight and keep it off again outside of things like i don't know whatever that creepy as empic thing is or the al shaft and stomach stapling or the tom um rope or whatever his name is the weatherman so how many people do you know over the course of your life who've wanted to lose weight how many of them lose it and keep it off almost none almost none, so those are people whose health hangs in the balance diabetes might hang in the balance Joint pain hangs in the balance. Long-term longevity hangs in the balance. And happiness, contentedness, quality of life, praise from everyone around them, better boners, better sleep, all of that. And still only 5% or so manage to lose weight and keep it up, which is a whole lot easier than developing empathy in your 60s.
[1:44:40] Accept and absorb and net this into your bones, friends. I view change for people who don't admit that there's a problem as impossible. You might as well ask your parents to fly unaided. They will not change. even if they admit that there's a problem they're unlikely to change in any permanent way, now that's bad news for the bad people in your life but it's really fucking great news for the good people in your life because while while people don't change good people don't turn randomly evil, my wife is the same but better as when i married her i'm the same but better as when she married me because we're on a path towards improvement and virtue. So it sucks that dysfunctional people don't change their foundational natures, but it's fantastic when you get the right people because you can trust they're going to stay the right people. Do you see what I mean?
[1:45:53] Yeah, no, I do. Yeah, the good people stay good or get better and the bad people rarely change.
[1:46:00] Stay the same or I'd usually get worse. yeah exactly do not be in relationships, on the foundational requirement that people fundamentally change don't do it it is a waste of time it is a waste of god's energy it is a waste of the gift of life do not do it people are they are love them leave them like them i don't care but don't sit around with your fingers crossed and your balls in a knot because you want them to be fundamentally different from who they are right don't buy a car bring it home and try and turn it into a duck or a boat, you want a boat get a boat don't buy a car and try and turn it into a boat yeah.
[1:46:49] No 100 percent
[1:46:52] All right okay well listen uh drop me a line if you can host at freedomain.com i'd love to hear i'd love to hear how it's going and i really do appreciate your conversation tonight it was a great job and i appreciate you uh listening and i obviously i won't say even fingers crossed but i wish you the best stefan.
[1:47:07] Thanks so much
[1:47:08] You're welcome everyone thank you everyone for a great conversation tonight freedomain.com slash donate to help out the show freedomain.com slash donate maybe i'll even buy a backdrop rather than living in the giant ping pong ball that i do freedomain.com slash donate have yourself a glorious wonderful and delightful evening thank you everyone we will see you friday night i think i'll do yeah i'll do a twitter stream a friday night and then sundays we do 11 a.m and then the last hour is donor only lots of love thanks everyone bye.
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