In this engaging episode of his ongoing podcast series, philosopher Stefan Molyneux engages in an in-depth discussion with a freelance writer witnessing an inner turmoil surrounding his relationship with his followers and the monetization of his craft. The caller expresses an internal conflict about feeling unappreciated as a content creator, often feeling “catty” towards his followers when they fail to support him financially. He reflects on Molyneux’s recent video on entrepreneurship, which had sparked his inquiry into how best to foster a genuine connection with his audience and ultimately encourage their support.
The conversation unfolds as Molyneux probes deeper into the caller’s experiences, focusing specifically on his current challenges in bridging the gap between his large following and dwindling financial support. The caller reveals that he has amassed a sizeable audience on Patreon, where he provides content for his fans at a very low price, yet struggles with only a handful of patrons providing the monetary backing necessary for him to pursue writing full-time. Molyneux skillfully helps the caller unpack his sentiments of resentment toward his followers, guiding him to explore how his emotions relate to his childhood experiences and feelings of being undervalued.
Throughout the dialogue, the writer conveys feelings of guilt and self-recrimination, feeling somewhat responsible for the lack of financial support he receives from followers who have access to his work for free. Molyneux challenges him to consider the notion that genuine relationships—built on reciprocal value exchange—are vital to his success and the connection he longs for with his followers.
As the discussion develops, they reflect on the essence of appreciation and motivation in the creative landscape. Molyneux resonates with the caller's motivations, suggesting that people often require a cause—something beyond the individual creator—to rally behind. He emphasizes that followers are not simply donating to a person but to a mission, encouraging the writer to articulate what his cause is—offering transformative stories in an industry cluttered with mediocrity.
The conversation veers toward the caller’s anecdote of navigating online interactions with his audience while simultaneously grappling with business acumen as a creator. As Molyneux advises him to separate the personal from the professional—focusing on creating compelling work while also advocating for financial support—the caller expresses an epiphany: he doesn’t need to conflate art with commerce. He recognizes the importance of navigating these dual relationships distinctly.
Drawing connections between the dynamics of their conversation to broader themes of child-parent relationships and coming to terms with one’s own emotional development, Molyneux helps the caller see his interactions through a lens of empathy while encouraging him to demand what he rightfully deserves—the respect of his audience and the financial support to continue creating.
By the end of the episode, the writer adopts a more mature perspective on the complex relationship between storytelling and the economic realities faced by creatives. The result is a deepening understanding of the nature of value, the importance of connection in creative endeavors, and a newfound appreciation for both the art form and the community he wishes to build around it.
0:09 - Introduction to the Conversation
1:33 - The Challenge of Connecting with Followers
2:21 - Understanding Audience Support
4:03 - Emotions and Perceptions
5:41 - The Financial Support Dilemma
6:55 - Exploring Donation Models
15:37 - The Disconnect Between Value and Support
26:03 - Finding the Heart of the Issue
38:14 - Navigating Personal Experiences
45:38 - Childhood Experiences and Their Impact
49:11 - Childhood Trauma and Property Rights
50:34 - Life After High School
53:33 - Struggles with Alcoholism
56:17 - Family Relationships and Support
1:13:33 - The Emotional Cost of Asking
1:24:26 - Balancing Art and Financial Needs
1:32:45 - The Value of Connections over Money
[0:00] All right, so this is an open public call to try and stay off names, places, and monetary figures, and I'm all ears.
[0:10] Yes, sir. I wanted to talk to you about, well, the thing I wanted to talk about was, recently I was watching one of your videos that you recently uploaded, which I am completely confused on when this video was actually made, but it doesn't matter. The point of it was that you were, you made this comment about how people didn't follow you to the one website over, which I didn't, which is mostly on me. I didn't realize was the actual name of the domain for the longest time. And it reminded me of something I was having difficulty with, with my own followers, which was that I was being a little catty towards them when they didn't support me financially or support me spiritually. And I was wondering if, like, okay, I'm off topic here. Recently, you did a video titled How to Be an Entrepreneur, and it already covered almost all the topics I wanted to talk about today, on how to talk to your customers and followers on how to have them support you and have their connection with them. And it was beautiful, but that was what I wanted to talk about, but I already scheduled the meeting and so on and so forth. So the issue is, how do we talk to our customers? How do we talk to our followers to have them support us and have that connection with them?
[1:34] Sorry, so I've kind of answered the question, but you have a sort of related question. Can you tell me a bit more about that?
[1:41] Yeah, I'm a freelance writer or just a writer in general, and I have a lot of followers. And I had this issue recently where I was I got a little catty with them the way that you were a little bit catty with your in your videos about you just had to follow me one website to the left and I had a similar thing with my followers like hey you had the chance to support me to get more of what you wanted so I don't want to hear your complaints, about how I'm not giving you more of what you want, because you didn't support me and you didn't follow me, and so that's what I wanted to talk about which was,
[2:16] connection with this other, this I'm very bad at this, sir.
[2:21] You have 40 years of experience with this. I'm terrible at talking to people.
[2:26] Okay, let me start, and it's a very interesting question, and I appreciate you bringing it up. So, I'm almost on the listening, like when people talk, for the language that they're using. So the first thing I'd like to ask you, and this is without criticism, it's just the general curiosity, Why the word caddy? That's very interesting. Why the word caddy? What do you mean by that?
[2:52] Um, this is definitely more on me than you, which was that when you said, I'm sure you read my email or whatever, whatever it's called, was that when in your videos recently that I realized were actually really old videos that you're really re-uploading, you were making these comments about how, hey, you just had to follow me one website to the left. You guys didn't care that much. And I was like, ooh, that's a little hurtful. I don't know if that really applies to me, but I still feel a little guilty about that. And then I wondered, wait, am I kind of sounding like that to my customers, to my followers? Because I got thousands of them. And I've kind of been a dick to them. Nowhere near, I'm sorry, way, no, not quite that. You've not been a dick to your followers at all, to be clear. But I've been a little catty towards my followers and listening to what you said, which was a much more minor, sin to what I did, was making me think, wait, has my behavior towards my followers been unacceptable? Have I been interacting with the people I want to have this connection with? Not quite right.
[4:03] And then you had this conversation.
[4:05] We've gone from catty to dick to sin.
[4:08] No, I've been a dick.
[4:10] It's not a criticism, I'm just pointing it out. But go ahead.
[4:13] Yes. You've not been a dick. I've been a dick. And the way you were talking.
[4:17] Well, hang on, hang on. But you're putting us in the same general category. And listen, I'm not offended by it. Maybe it's always possible that I'm being a dick. That's always within the realm of human possibility. But I'm more curious about your perception of these things and why this characterization occurs for you.
[4:35] Yes. And it's one of those things where somebody does something that you've done to a much lesser extent that makes you think, now wait a minute, am I acting in the correct way? And then you had that conversation, how to be an entrepreneur, last week is when I saw it, but I don't know when that video was actually made. And in that video, you talk about all the things I was actually wanting to talk about, how to talk to potential customers, how to badger people if you need a badger, how to have that personal connection with the customers that you want to have. And in my case, I was, okay, I was being cat. To put it, oh, let me tell you my story. I'm sorry, I'm very bad at this. I am a writer, and I have a lot of followers. And I have a Patreon, and I wanted to write for my followers full-time instead of my customers full-time. So there's this distinction. I have about 2,000 followers, but I have a handful of customers.
[5:36] My handful of customers paid me like $100 per chapter. My customers paid me almost nothing.
[5:41] And so I put myself out there and said, hey, customers, if you want me to just write what you guys collectively want me to write, Just put it up to $1 per month. I can do this full time. They did not. And that was my answer.
[5:55] Okay, so let me make sure I understand this. You've got your customers and you've got your followers. Are the customers the people on your Patreon or is that the followers?
[6:04] No, the followers are on Patreon. The customers pay me like $100 per chapter and I have a handful of those. But my Patreons, my followers, pay me like $1 per month.
[6:14] Can you really pay $1 a month? I mean, doesn't the sort of Visa or bank or other overhead sort of chew that into ribbons?
[6:21] Oh, they, they, uh, the Patreon takes like 30% taxes are like 20%. But if all of them just gave me $1 per month, that would be like $1,500 per month as a bachelor. That's plenty of money.
[6:35] Okay. So you get 50 cents on the dollar if people support you for a dollar. Is that right?
[6:41] 70, 75. But with my customers, they pay me like a hundred dollars per chapter.
[6:45] Sorry if I misunderstood the math I thought it was Patreon takes 30% and then you've got taxes In general.
[6:53] Patreon takes like 20% taxes 10-15.
[6:56] Oh sorry sorry So you get 65 cents or so On the dollar Right?
[7:03] Yes sir And so when you were making these comments like Hey it was one side over the left Which I repeat I did not know was the actual name
[7:12] Well that's the joke that kind of came up later.
[7:14] I said you couldn't go one site over and then someone created a website called One Site Over that redirects but itwasn't my
[7:21] I think that's hilarious and I wish I'd come up with that because that is just brilliant because that is fantastic and I I lost you when you were deleted from the internet and I only followed you on, what is the website it's the YouTube ripoff.
[7:40] I wouldn't say ripoff necessarily but do you mean Rumble?
[7:45] Not Rumble, the other one.
[7:47] Odyssey, Rumble, there is Bitchute.
[7:51] Bitchute, yes. I followed you on Bitchute specifically for the Truth About series. That was what I followed you for, the Truth About series.
[7:58] Okay.
[7:58] That was my obsession with you. I just love that series, and that's all I followed you for. So for the longest time, I just followed you on Bitchute for that after you were deleted from the internet. And so, but then I, we came back to YouTube, and I was seeing these videos that were older, and you were making these comments like, You just had to follow me one side to the left. And I'm like, you know, that's kind of hurtful because I wanted to follow you. But part of it was my laziness that I didn't want to go that extra step. And part of it was my stupidity. I'm like, I didn't know that was the domain name. And I was wondering.
[8:29] Hang on. Okay. So I appreciate that. So how long were you following me before I was deplatformed?
[8:36] I followed you since around 2014. And to specify, about two months before you were deleted from the internet, I backed up every single video you ever made onto an external hard drive.
[8:47] Ah, okay, cool. Good to know.
[8:49] And that's the thing I wanted to show you. I had it right here. You have the video. I had it right here. I can show you. I have this.
[8:55] That's very cool.
[8:56] So it wasn't a matter of, and I wanted to share that with you in addition to this other topic I want to talk about, which is that we really did love you, Stefan, but we love you for different reasons. And we didn't have the means or the, not ethics, work ethic to follow you to these other websites, which we couldn't find. Like the longest time I was actually living on the road when you disappeared and I couldn't find your website because every time I tried to Google you or even free domain it was just like this guy's a neo-nazi this guy's a eugenicist and I couldn't find none of them ever actually cited your actual domain name and I lost it.
[9:30] Sorry you used Google? who the hell uses Google anymore?
[9:34] Um morons like me
[9:36] i meancos you know, there's there's actual objective um search engines that you can use but okay so so you couldn't remember the name of the website and you couldn't find me through any searches uh they just didn't leave...
[9:50] i was living in a van on the road at the time and then i come back and i find you returned now that i finally have a place again and i'm working again and actually living in one place. And you were making these comments and they reminded me of how this is getting way off track. I wanted to talk about how to talk to customers and have a relationship with them, which I've struggled really strongly to do because I've only made a profit from having individual relationships with a handful of customers. And you seem to have this really good relationship with a huge amount of customers and followers. And that's the disconnect. And you were making these comments like you couldn't follow me this other thing and it was reminding me of these comments i was making
[10:33] no no i understand you've mentioned a couple of times before uh and it's funny how you said um we're going off topic it's like but it's a conversation so there is no central topic we have to stay on right so okay so i was i was not deleted from the internet um right i mean that's sort of impossible to do right i just uh you know i was already on other websites, but I just spent more time on those other websites. And so I wasn't deleted. There was tons of places to find me. And so saying, you love me and all of that, listen, I appreciate that. That's very kind. But I guess I'm questioning why it hurt you, if that makes sense. And I just try to understand that emotional side of things, because it's really important.
[11:21] Well it hurt me because it made me realize i was being really rude to my followers was like uh i'm trying to find a direct quote of what i said i said hey you guys have the chance to support me to get more of what you want i'm going to focus more on what these guys who are actually paying me want me to do and they pay me to write by the chapter they're saying they're they're very deliberate like money talks they're telling me hey write this chapter on this type of story and here's your money. Meanwhile, you guys, all you had to do was pay me $1 a month and I could have done this full time.
[11:53] Okay, hang on. So when you said, so when I was talking to the listeners and I said, you guys couldn't bother to follow me one website over, it hurt you because of your relationship with you.
[12:04] Because of me... Yes, and this is more on me than you.
[12:09] I'm not sure how it would be on me, your relationship with your listeners. Because I thought you said you felt bad. And I'm sorry if I misunderstood this. I thought you said you felt bad because you kind of didn't have the work ethic to find me. And I'm not that hard to find, even through Google and stuff like that. I mean, yes, you'll get the slanderous stuff and all of that. But I'm not that hard to find. Maybe it's second page or whatever, right?
[12:30] Yes, but I and most people who only follow you maybe for one video series or another are like, I spent 10 minutes...
[12:38] You were following for six years off and on, right? So that's a fairly big investment. And none of this is a nag. I'm just genuinely curious, and I really appreciate the feedback.
[12:50] Mr. Molyneux, it was not that big of an investment at all. I did. It was press follow and said, oh, a new truth about video. Watch.
[12:58] No, no. In terms of time. So it wasn't like you'd just been following me for a couple of weeks and then I vanished and you're like, oh, well, I mean, if you if you'd followed me off and on for six years and and the work that I do is not replicated anywhere else because nobody takes the quite of sort of deep philosophical dives into sort of history and current events the way that I was doing. So you you you try to follow me or you try to get the latest youtube videos and stuff and i'm i'm gone and then you maybe go to a couple of other places and i'm gone or twitter or you know all the other places and then you did a search but you had a little bit of trouble finding me is that right.
[13:37] Yes, and all I was able to find you on was Bitchute, and all I wanted from you was the Truth About series, which, oh, by the way, if you ever just want to release a DVD box set of the Truth About series, I'll pay a hundred bucks for that.
[13:49] Oh, thank you. I appreciate it.
[13:49] But, like, I'm not joking. Like, the thing, that was the specific thing I followed you for.
[13:56] Right, okay.
[13:57] And so, and there's probably a lot of other people who followed you for one specific thing or another, as opposed to all of that stuff you said combined. Like you just said not to discount it but in the terms of value uh value what you just said all that stuff combined is definitely valuable but i wasn't following you for all that that wasn't the investment i made the investment i made was oh click subscribe oh a new truth about video watch that that was my investment
[14:22] and over the six years that you followed me did you ever donate or subscribe monetarily?
[14:28] I did not but that's because you didn't have a patreon.
[14:33] Uh no that's not that's not the reason.
[14:37] No i have apatreon but that's very convenient and
[14:41] No no but that's not the reason, and the reason i say that and it's look it's totally fine that you didn't but the reason that i say that is because um well first of all i was kicked off patreon uh but the reason i had um a lot of different ways that people could donate or subscribe that were not patreon right i mean for most of my uh time i was on paypal or you know and i had crypto and you know a bunch of a bunch of other stuff and of course you know when you could donate on youtube you could donate uh in super chats through youtube and i mean there was probably at least six to eight different ways uh to donate that that weren't patreon so um, Saying well I couldn't donate because it's not Patreon listen it's fine that you didn't donate But it's not because There just wasn't Patreon.
[15:37] There's two things about that first is that most people don't have half a dozen accounts on different payment methods i just all i have is patreon and paypal and after.
[15:46] That i was on paypal the but i was on paypal.
[15:52] So you didn't go to the donate page and you didn't find out so when you said to me well i didn't donate because Stef you weren't on patreon you didn't go to the donation page because for most for all the time that you're talking about from 2014 through till 2020 or you know nearabouts uh i was i was on paypal so that's the way that the donation would have happened and of course you don't need an account to donate over paypal you can just um put in the credit card info and you don't actually need to create an account but no i was uh you could subscribe and donate uh directly through paypal for all the time period and listen i'm again i'm not talking about not donating because it's a very interesting question but the question is why didn't you donate and the reason i'm asking you this is to try and get you into the mindset, of the people who aren't donating to you if that makes sense right right so so if somebody's not if somebody's not buying from you you have to put yourself into the mindset of why you didn't buy so if you're saying well why didn't people donate to me then you have to uh sorry if you if you're saying to me Stef why didn't why don't why don't my people donate to me the 50 cents or 70 65 cents per person after expenses so to find to figure out why your customers aren't donating to you or subscribing to you the first place to go is to say well why don't i subscribe to other people and then work to overcome that if that makes sense.
[17:21] And that's exactly what I've been struggling with, sir. But with me, what the problem was, the only people I advertised to was people who were already patrons, who were, I have a free patron tier. And I said, hey, if all of you donate one to $10 per month, I can do this full time. But with you, what I realized was, wow, laziness is really inherent in the human condition is that I couldn't go through those extra steps of following to your website, finding the PayPal, and putting in this information to create an automatic payment system. Or whatever the process is. Like, wow, people are willing to do that. And then I'm complaining about something that's even fewer steps. And even then people aren't willing to do that.
[18:02] Okay, so we're not lazy. It's just low priority, right? I mean, do you eat well? Do you go to the dentist? Do you pay your taxes? Yes, I assume, right?
[18:13] Well, do not go to the dentist, but I have been paying my taxes. And I could eat better.
[18:18] It's not a matter of laziness. It's a matter of motivation. I mean, if by donating to me, you got to live an extra 10 years, like I wouldn't even finish that sentence and you would donate to me. Right. I mean, so this is another thing. And this
[18:34] that's a better investment than tennis!
[18:37] So the question is, why don't you donate to me or why didn't you for six years? And that will release you from the karma of people not donating to you. Right. So but that's an interesting question. I mean, you were getting value. How many roughly, I know it's tough to guesstimate, but how many, because you actually spent a lot more time downloading my shows than it would have taken to just donate to me, which is kind of interesting, right?
[19:03] Oh, no, it took like an hour. There's a software called 4K Video Download. You can just put the link for a YouTube channel. It downloads it all, like an hour. Like the entire YouTube channel, all their videos.
[19:15] But what I'm saying is that setting all of that up took more time than donating.
[19:21] Yes, and that's part of the laziness, and that's one of the things I really regretted about myself.
[19:27] You were motivated enough to take all my content, but you weren't motivated enough to pay for it, and that's an interesting question, right? So roughly how many shows would you say you consumed over the six-year period?
[19:44] I really only ever watched the truth about series and a few interviews particularly those on the medical and education system i don't remember the names of the individuals but you did the amazing interviews with people with a doctor working in medicine and had a private clinic and another on a person uh creating his own new or who had created his own new k-12 system and those were though that pretty much amounts to what i was
[20:07] Maybe maybe 50 shows maybe.
[20:09] 75 shows over six years.
[20:11] No way more than that just hang on now i just plug this in no no honestly
[20:17] it doesn't hugely matter i don't need the detailed number so would you.
[20:19] Say 200 shows.
[20:22] Well over that uh however many the truth about series you did
[20:26] let's say 300 shows.
[20:27] Um just to be be conservative right um let's say an hour.
[20:31] And a half.
[20:32] Per show two hours for the truth about an hour for the interviews usually so we'll average it out at an hour and a half times 300 that's 400 and 450 hours right so 450 hours of very high quality high researched content and no donation and that and.
[20:50] That's the interesting question.
[20:52] Is you have a thought process laziness doesn't answer anything right so you have a thought process and again it's not like we can go back in time and have you donate to me so this is not the issue the question is what was your thought process, about not donating because you heard me say you know like share subscribe donate blah blah blah like.
[21:10] Every show so what.
[21:12] Was your thought process about not donating because that's an important thing for you to understand with regards to your customers.
[21:20] Yes there's i've had over a week to think about this and i think there are two roadblocks the first was that there's this digital not owning problem which is that just donating to you i don't want to donate to you i want to buy from you i i think i i made the joke that's not a joke earlier if you just make a dvd box set of the truth about series i'd pay a hundred bucks for that dude i'm not even exaggerating, it's that high quality content but it's not out there your books are great i think i bought was it well it wasn't peaceful parenting it was one of the other ones i bought the book, yes i bought that i lost it since then i think i gave it away and i'm never giving away a book
[22:01] You say it's not physical.
[22:02] But the physical one you've lost or given away, but the digital ones you all have in a box. So you actually have more ownership over them. Okay. So the convenience of it being delivered digitally and available to you whenever you wanted was not value to you.
[22:20] Yes. Convenience is not valued. And digital is not valued. But physical, I value. And I realized that with my customers. I want something physical from you.
[22:31] Okay. Okay. Got it. So.
[22:35] Is that what I think the disconnect is?
[22:37] But you're still consuming, right? And that's sort of the question, right? Because if you say, well, I don't value digital, then don't watch it, right? But if you sort of suck down 450 hours worth of concentrated moral, philosophical, political, and whatever it is, content, then clearly you're finding value in it, right? You're finding value in it because you're consuming a lot, right? Like all of the Beatles over only goes into, what, 10 hours? And everything that Jesus said gets into two hours. But you've got 450 hours. And so you are definitely finding it to be a value you're hearing me request donations you see a request for donations with a simple click underneath the youtube video uh there were uh at the sort of for the last couple of years five years or so of my youtube career there was actually a click box at the end of the videos you could click on to get to the donation page and you told yourself something about donating or not donating and and to find out what you said to yourself is the key to unlocking your donations donations towards you.
[23:47] Yes, but, well, two corrections. One is, don't cite the Beatles, they were awful. Cite the Police or the Queen. But ignoring that, in terms of free content, I also get an equal amount of really high quality content from the library and the library apps that are absolutely free, and I've gotten even more apps from that.
[24:07] Sorry, from the library, do you mean like the physical library?
[24:09] I think it's part of the thing. Both a physical library and there are two apps. One is called Libby and one is called, I forgot the other one. But yes, I get literally infinite, similarly high quality content from those. And so the only things I tend to find myself willing to buy.
[24:28] I mean, the library doesn't require that you donate because you're kind of donating through your taxes, right? And so I don't know about this other apps, but I assume that the authors are not requesting that you donate, right? So it's the difference between saying I'm going to a high-end clothing store and then I found a jacket on the street. So when I say or – and you know, I mean, you're an intelligent man and you know that what I do has costs. And uh you know i've had a number of employees studio costs server costs bandwidth costs uh production costs uh and all of that sort of stuff especially with the documentaries so you know that it costs money but you say something to yourself, to not donate even though you heard the donation pitch 300 times there's something that you say to yourself, and that's what you need to unpack.
[25:29] Yes, and well, I have all the excuses in the world. One is, I almost only listened to you when I was on the road because of work.
[25:36] That's not relevant, right? I don't say, donate to the show unless you're in motion. Right? That's not a standard. So we have to sort of get our way through the excuses just in the interest of efficiency.
[25:49] Exactly. You need to find out what it is.
[25:50] So yeah, we have to get our way through the excuses and get to the core of why not donate because that's what you want to unlock for your audience right.
[26:00] Yes, and that's why I want to walk to you.
[26:02] Okay, so forget the excuses.
[26:03] Well, for me, yes. Let's work our way through the excuses. One was, back when I used to listen to you, well, one, I was broke, unbelievably broke. Two, I only ever listened to you when I was on the road because of work to try and not be broke anymore. Three, is this disconnect between this free content, and wanting to buy content, especially with, at the time, and especially more today, um i'm a bit of a gamer and i've become so resentful of the business model of buying digital content that you don't own so i don't want to donate to you i kind of want to buy something from you and own it.
[26:44] Well but that's uh hang on if that makes sense well of course you could order all the books right they're all available for for order but you only ordered one and secondly um and this is an important thing you don't get to define the relationship, right i mean you don't get to define i mean i don't get to go to a.
[27:05] An ethiopian restaurant and demand sushi right because it's an ethiopian restaurant right so if my business model is i provide this stuff free commercial free right because um, if you listen to 450 hours worth of content you know standard is 10 to 20 minutes sometimes of, ads per hour. And so, you know, you saved dozens and dozens of hours of commercial time and all that sort of stuff, which is sort of very convenient and helpful. So you, on your side, you don't get to define what the exchange of value is, right? So you don't get to consume 450 hours worth of material and then say, I'm only going to pay for the physical. I only want the physical, because if you didn't want the digital, you wouldn't be consuming it, right? So if you're consuming it, and the request is for donations for consuming the digital content, it's important to notice, and this is an important thing about relationships as a whole, not just, of course, what I do, but you don't get to unilaterally say, well, I'm not going to donate because I want something physical after consuming 450 hours of the digital, if that makes sense.
[28:18] If you're open to me disagreeing
[28:21] Of course, yeah!
[28:22] You set up this relationship And I get like three minutes here To just kind of talk.
[28:31] I'm sorry. I'm not sure what you mean by can I get some time to talk? We're having a conversation.
[28:35] I'm saying it's going to take me a while to explain my argument. I'm saying it's going to take me a good three minutes to explain my argument before we can continue and wrapping our heads around it.
[28:46] All right.
[28:47] So you kind of define this relationship when you put all this wonderful content out there for free. And I did the same. Oh, I don't know what it's stocked down there. I'll ignore it. And I defined a similar relationship with my customers where I put all this writing out there for free that they loved and followed by the tens of thousands. And so when I demanded money on top of that, I tried to change the relationship and I got some resentment for that. Like I got some nasty messages about, you know, I'm kind of really annoyed by this, you begging at the end of every chapter for money. I'm like, ooh, maybe I should stop doing that. And I kind of broke to this gear pressure. Like, ooh, I shouldn't ask for money. I shouldn't try to badger people to support me for the things they like. And then at the same time, I kind of defined this relationship by putting stuff out there for free. And you did the same with us. And so what I eventually did, actually, just two weeks ago, after I had this revelation with the things you, I don't remember the exact quote or which video it was, but you said, hey, this is one of our website over to the left.com. Like, wait, that was the domain name? Okay.
[29:53] And like, hey, you could have followed me. you could have supported me here at Lynx. I'm like, what if I just asked my customers what they'd be willing to pay for? And I did that. And they all pretty much, all the ones that responded at least, was like less than 10, no, 5% of them said, hey, just write an actual book and put it out physically. And so I must be wondering, like, hey, did you ever do that? Did you ever just like talk to your fans at large and say, hey, I want you guys to support me, but donations kind of sounds like charity, kind of sounds.
[30:26] Like you you you're my customers that's our relationship i can't have like i've talked to my people i'm like i want to have this personal connection with you but once we pass the 1 000 person mark or once we pass the 100 person mark that becomes difficult and so i can only have this personal connection with a handful of customers
[30:44] so hang on so i thought you've... you're putting out like a half dozen different topics and i'm just trying to follow because i don't know which ones to address so we kind of need to break it down a little
[30:53] i'll break it down okay first is have you talked to customers about what they want to pay you for like hey guys i need money i want money you guys like my content probably bridge this what do you guys want from me i told you once hey put out a dvd box set of the truth about series i'll pay you a hundred bucks for that or with my customers said hey write a book put it out there the physical copy i'll buy that, and so on and so forth okay
[31:19] so what's happened hang on.
[31:21] So if your customers want to pay for a book then just write.
[31:24] A book and and sell it and.
[31:26] And you can make money that way is that right.
[31:28] Yes and so that broke the part of the disconnect i was having was like wait why don't we just talk to our customers and ask them what they want what they'd be willing to pay for i did that and, i haven't watched all 20 million videos you produce over the years my god you are a machine i don't know how you do it but have you ever done that like have you ever actually just talked to customers at large say hey what product could i make that you guys would buy instead of this donation system.
[31:55] Well yeah i mean listen there's no reason why you would know the first uh eight or nine years of free domain but yeah i i did uh physical books and my books were originally only available as physical uh t-shirts i did hats i did a wide variety of merchandise and so on and people didn't really buy it.
[32:15] I believe it.
[32:16] Yeah.
[32:17] I believe it.
[32:17] So, I mean, I did sort of try, because I sort of come from the physical world of sales. And so, yeah, I definitely tried all of that. And, of course, what I did was I continually asked people what kind of shows did they like the most. And, in general, people like The Truth About Politics and The Call-In Shows. So, for many years, I focused on those. So, let me back up for a sec, though, because you said something interesting.
[32:39] Before that, can I have one question?
[32:41] Yes, go ahead.
[32:42] Uh i i had to re reorient myself towards profitability with a small handful of customers paying me for individual chapters over the large majority of customers paying me by donations did you experience a bigger inflow of income from switching towards those individual conversations and what you just said from switching towards the physical to that sorry what do you mean by the individual conversations um do you when you switch to i i already forgot what you just said i'm terrible at this um
[33:15] do you mean uh when I started having private calls?
[33:18] Yes when you started having private calls and debates and interviews did that actually
[33:24] hang on hang on so.
[33:26] It's only i think it was last year or something like that that i started doing uh private calls and uh Those are never published, and they're just between me and people, so I sort of charge an hourly rate for that. And yeah, I mean, that was important, but with regards to the other stuff, I just asked people what they wanted and tried to focus on that.
[33:51] Okay, maybe I misspoke. I was talking about like all the way back in 2015, you were having these one-on-one conversations with people and live streaming them about their family problems.
[34:00] Yeah, that's all free. Yeah, that was all free. I never charged a penny for that.
[34:02] That was all free. And I'm wondering if that brought in more income in terms of donations than you actually made from selling these physical products, was the question.
[34:10] Oh, yeah, absolutely. The physical products were almost a complete bust. People just didn't want the physical stuff. I went through that process for quite a while and ended up taking the store down because it was just kind of depressing. So, yeah, people don't want the physical stuff. Okay, so, but let me go back to something.
[34:27] I've been doing the right thing.
[34:28] Sorry, go ahead.
[34:29] So, I've been doing the right thing. I've just been following the money and listening to what people told me with their wallets. And you've been doing the same thing. And this is what you wound up, and you're much more experienced than me.
[34:39] So, let's go back to when you said, Stef, when you put all of this stuff out for free.
[34:45] Yes
[34:45] I think that's the problem in your in your mindset if you don't mind me saying so and problem meets just an opportunity with a different different spelling right so you said stef when you put all of this stuff out for free uh tell me what you mean by that
[35:00] what i said you what i said when you put all this stuff out there for free you define the relationship that you were giving out these stories this philosophy this wisdom for free i did the same thing with my stories i was getting out these stories for free for their entertainment and then there was a large contingent that of people excuse me
[35:17] no but why why would you characterize it as free when i ask for donations to support what i'm doing?
[35:26] The actual content was easy to access
[35:29] yes
[35:30] free to access
[35:31] yes
[35:31] and it wasn't out there and when you uh there wasn't a paywall. And I'm wondering if you tried a paywall and if that worked better or if that's more moral where you pay me for my content, you pay me for my work because the work you put in is definitely worth being paid for.
[35:49] Well, but not by you.
[35:50] People will... Not by me, because I had this disconnect.
[35:55] Okay, so this is what I'm trying to focus on, this disconnect. So tell me what you mean when you say, Stef, you put out all of this work for free.
[36:09] Yes.
[36:10] I mean, have you ever been in small towns, or sometimes they have them in hotels, or they're little book libraries, right? And you're supposed to take a book and read it. At the resort or something like that and then the ideal is you know you put it back or you bring another book people leave books behind if they finish them and it's just a kind of unmonitored library there's some lovely small towns in northern ontario where they there are these little, stands uh the little books uh and with these sort of glass doors and you could just take a book and give a book right so yeah so and there are also there are also um uh stands where you can take eggs and leave some money and so on right so that's not it's not enforced right so you can if you want it you could take all of those books and just you know there could be 30 or 40 books in these little book nooks or something you could just take them all and and leave right say well it's free but that's not really how it's supposed to work right so when i say uh and i've made the case a whole bunch of times i'm sure you heard it you know that's the sort of business case as to why uh why donate so when you say Stef would you put all this stuff out for free so you define the relationship so that lets you off the hook and saying well Stef he's putting all this stuff out for free so i don't have to pay but that's not what it is it's donation based
[37:38] You didn't put it out for free though, did you?
[37:40] I'm sorry?
[37:40] You defined the exchange rate. Oh, I'm sorry. I said you didn't necessarily put it out for free, though. The exchange rate seemed to be philosophy and wisdom and knowledge. And that exchange rate really went around in terms of the conversations you were having in the comments and the sections and all of that. And at the end of the videos, there was this call to donate. And there was this disconnect there with me. I'm talking about me.
[38:05] Okay. But I'm trying to figure out that disconnect. So I can help you I'm trying to get you to get donations So what's the disconnect?
[38:14] Well with me I know exactly what a disconnect is Okay I'm going to really embarrass myself out I literally get paid To write fan fiction That is my job I make a living doing this, Let's give your listeners a moment to laugh at that.
[38:33] Hey, whoever can make their writing by the pen, it's fine. No mockery for me, good for you. So I'm not sure what that disconnect is, though.
[38:42] The disconnect with me was that I just put it out there mostly as an expression of art to develop as an artist. Because my earlier stuff was garbage. And then it started being less garbage. And then eventually it was good. And then eventually people said, hey would you write my stuff and i said if you pay me and then they can vanish and then eventually somebody said yes and they paid me and then more people paid me and then even more people paid me and now i make a living from it and the people who came in here for the art itself, are a little sour about it they're like this we i entered this fandom this, adventure for the art for the exploration and then you turned it into this evil capitalist system where there's profit motive involved and so so.
[39:35] I still i just kind of beg you to boil it down right i still don't have an answer as to why you didn't donate.
[39:41] Well you because i came in there and i got the wrong impression i thought
[39:46] no no no no you didn't get the wrong impression every single video i say please donate didn't get the wrong impression let's try it again.
[39:54] Well here's no let me let me let me actually argue against that every youtube video i watched said that
[40:01] no
[40:02] every youtube video
[40:03] that's not true that's not true either i'm sure you watched music videos i'm sure you watched broadcast videos you watched a whole bunch of things where they didn't say donate to support what i'm doing because i don't have any ads.
[40:14] You know most people i watch absolutely beg for or at least asked for donations and subscriptions at the end or even throughout the video.
[40:24] Okay, fantastic. So then you knew the relationship. So it wasn't free.
[40:34] The content itself was free, but the relationship was disconnected.
[40:38] No, the content is free if you don't pay for it. Which means someone else has to pay for it. Right? Because if nobody pays for it, this is sort of what you're dealing with. Right. If nobody pays for it, you can't do it. So what you're doing is you're saying other people should pay for it, but not me.
[40:59] Exactly. And in that same vein, with my relationship with my customers, one section of the customers pays for it, the other consumes. And the part that consumes consumes it.
[41:10] But you can't get mad at people who don't pay because you don't pay.
[41:14] Exactly. And that's what I was struggling with. And that's what I overpayed.
[41:19] Hang on. We go back to why didn't you pay for what you consumed?
[41:27] 450 hours is a lot right so why didn't you pay for.
[41:32] What you consumed and and if you and.
[41:34] You gotta get to the heart of that and.
[41:37] That will unlock for you the mysteries of your subscribers or non-subscribers if that makes sense so why didn't you pay there's a thought at the root of that why is what is that thought.
[41:45] And that thought is why i almost canceled this interview but i i didn't know how to so i just went along with it when that thought what i decide what i concluded but you might disagree with and hopefully you do and correct me where I'm wrong, was that my relationship to you wasn't as a customer, it was as a consumer. And there's a huge difference between that, which was that I wasn't paying you for the content, I was just consuming it like a glut. And so many of my customers were just consuming what I put out.
[42:13] Yes, but why? What is the thought that has you take something without contributing back?
[42:20] It's that I didn't value it!
[42:22] No, no, you did value it because you came back for, hang on, you did value it because you came back for 450 hours. If you didn't value it, you wouldn't have come back.
[42:34] Nonsense. I do all kinds of stuff that I don't value. I eat terrible junk food that I don't enjoy and I don't value.
[42:40] I'm not sure that you want to have this conversation by comparing my philosophical output to junk food. That's a little provocative you understand, right?
[42:51] I agree, but I also earlier compared to your content to the amount of unlimited free content by the brilliant people of the past available at the library
[43:01] well but they're all dead they're.
[43:02] Not asking you for donations so that doesn't count.
[43:07] Okay i do need to support you and more so do more other people i want to support you as a customer not as a consumer or a donator
[43:14] okay so since you when did you come back to what i do.
[43:19] Uh i continue to i continue to follow you on Bitchute but my following amounted to me checking once a month like hey is there a new truth about video oh the truth about the wild west absolutely okay so you continue to consume content.
[43:32] After i had been deplatformed.
[43:34] Yes
[43:35] did you think that it might have been a bit difficult for me to be deplatformed.
[43:40] Okay so did you think of signing up for say three bucks a month or five bucks a month Did.
[43:45] You think at that time, wow, you know, this guy's been really done dirty and he's been thrown down the well and, you know, they peed down on his gaping, bruisey wounds. And so, you know, three bucks a month, five bucks a month would really help him and so on. Or did you just keep consuming without reciprocity?
[44:03] Who answered? I am an edge case in that I was literally homeless from 2020 to 2023, living in a van, traveling the country, looking to work. So I am a very weird edge case. All right. But. I still considered supporting you, but I actually remember the exact focus. Like, I think you said, oh, I can only support, I think you, oh, so mean what you said. You said, oh, I can only support you for 50 cents to a dollar per month. It's my last 50 cents to a dollar. If you can't do that, don't support me.
[44:32] Absolutely, yeah. So if for the last 11 years, you've been broke, I don't know how you're a gamer and broke because gaming equipment is quite expensive. But if you've been living on death's door for the last 11 years, then sure, of course. I mean, I would never want to take somebody's last bit of money. That would be gross and unpleasant and wrong. So then the answer is the reason, and I'm not sure why it takes this long, but the reason you didn't donate is for 11 years, you've had no money.
[45:10] From 2020 through 2023, 2024, yes. Before that, I don't know what the disconnect was. I was actually doing pretty well in life. I was making my way up and that's what I wanted to discuss. And since then, I've bought one of your books and then I gave it away. Oh, I'm sorry. Loaned it away and then never got it back. Never loaned books. And I want to buy more of your stuff. I think I just... Did I just... No, I put it in my wish list. I'll buy that next month with my next paycheck.
[45:38] Okay, so I don't think we're going to get to an answer here, so I'm going to give you my thoughts, and maybe they'll make some sense for you, because this, I think, is an insight. So let me ask you this. As a child, when you were a child, did you feel that your parents were kind, generous, warm, and helpful to you?
[46:01] Oh, we just opened up a huge can of worms. I grew up in the group homes in California, sir.
[46:06] You mean like orphanages?
[46:08] Well, I thought it was a nightmare.
[46:09] Right. Okay. Go on.
[46:14] We just opened up a huge can of worms. I had no property rights. Everything I owned, I had to either allow other children to steal to the point that the staff in charge forced me to open up the opportunity for other students to, I'm sorry, other group home children to steal, which they did. Or to destroy. I had nothing of my own. I had, oh, that's, oh, do you, do you want me to just vent about how awful the group homes are in California, sir? Is that, I mean.
[46:41] Open to you venting about that. And I'm very sorry for all of this.
[46:45] Okay. At eight years old, I was taken from my mother because my aunt was a cunt. She just lied about my stepfather at the time, who later actually lived up to her expectations. But at the time, it was not a big deal. Then my mother got addicted to drugs. At the time, I was already under the influence of a ton of drugs for, committing the grave sin of having an IQ of 145, which was 45 IQ points higher than every single person in charge of me in the schools. Then I was put on, uh, not SSRIs, um, all kinds of amphetamines. I was put on one drug that was a, I don't remember the name of, but it was a syrup that made me hallucinate that my shoelaces were snakes. And that was a great time. Then I was taken to the group homes and my education went even more piss poor from there. I had a music teacher that never taught me music. I was held back three different years, not because my did poor work, but because they misplaced my transcripts three years in a row. And when I was in the fifth grade, I was doing third grade work, and then I had to fight to.
[47:42] Do a test to show, oh, wait, I'm actually in the fifth grade, and I read in a ninth grade level. And it was just that for eight years straight. And to the point that in high school, I didn't try at all, because I'm like, well, why bother? Everything I've done so far was just lost, giant air quotes. So I literally planned out my high school to get exactly 2.0 GPA, and I did that. Guess what? They lost my records in the last year anyways, and so officially, I never graduated to the high school, even though I did. So, that was my group home years. That's ignoring all the fighting. That's ignoring the weird sexual interactions going on there. That's ignoring the work that I tried to do and was kneecapped on. So, yes. So, my relationship with property rights, and this is something I really, really struggle with in hindsight, was just ripped away from me. I had no property rights for so long. Everything I got from my family was immediately stolen, not usually by other peers, but by the staff themselves. My social workers stole like 15 grand of computer equipment that was left to me by my dead grandpa. Like that's how bad it was. So if you're trying to connect this to, well, I assume you're going to because you're really good at doing this, connecting to our childhood or adult lives, which I've tried to do because I've listened to you for so long, is that my relationship with property and other people's property and my property, is so out of walk that I don't, I don't know where to begin.
[49:11] Listen, brother, I mean, that's appalling, wretched, horrible, and my sympathy is bottomless, big virtual hug. What do you mean by the sexy, the creepy sexual stuff?
[49:25] Oh, well, sexual and violent. So they were really kind of intertwined was that a lot of staff like to get students to fight each other for their amusement. And then us being in these group homes consolidated essentially prisons i'm sure you know this like all of the scientific studies on sexual abuse that come from prison studies are essentially moot because that's not an actual a valid example of human interactions but with my growing up that was very valid in terms of how we interacted so how we tried to uh how we developed sexually was very weird, which is that we didn't have. Some group homes I was in, they were solely male. So we talked really weird stuff about trying to figure out what women were like. Other times, some staff, I was never raped. I'll say that outright. Neither were any of my peers in the group homes at least. But, you know, I don't want to go too into detail on that, if that's all right with you.
[50:28] No, listen, don't talk about anything that you don't want to talk about. That's totally fine. Okay.
[50:34] All right. So how did things go for you after high school?
[50:39] After high school? Hmm. It was a mixed bag. Um, for the most part, I got work as a security guard and as a bouncer. Naturally, I was sexually assaulted a lot by boomer women, who just grabbed my balls or butt cheek. And if I ever complained, I was threatened with being fired. But at the same time, if any female co-worker complained that a man said something unto work for them, I had to violently remove them. So that was nice. I'm a little, a little sour.
[51:07] Sorry, a little what?
[51:08] No. I'm a little sour about that, yes.
[51:12] And you did that for five years?
[51:14] And then what happened?
[51:17] After that, I became self-employed as a writer. And I never had to deal with aboss ever again. And it's amazing. It's so good. Oh, it's better than sex.
[51:26] And did you manage to get back, go get into any dating life? Or is that mostly by the wayside?
[51:34] Hmm. In terms of dating, I've only had success with women that weren't American. All of the long-term relationships I had were with women that weren't from America. And they were wonderful. And the problem I had was that I kept aiming, with American women at least, is that I kept aiming for long-term relationships. But I, well, I'm 6'2 and not fat and have been since I was 13. That makes me a 9. And so they only wanted me for sex. That is literally what my problem was with dating for the longest time. And so I kept trying to aim for long-term relationships with women in my age and when i was in my 20s and none of them were having it but with foreign women i didn't have that problem and so i had some long-term relationships with foreign one from tanzania one from thailand and one from japan and those are all wonderful and i had wonderful relationships with women when they weren't american.
[52:28] But nothing that led to marriage right.
[52:33] Nothing that led to marriage, but that was more because of how much of a transient lifestyle I lived, traveling for work all the time. I was in the military for a little while. That was not great for relationships. And all of my drill instructors were correct in saying, do not marry while you're in the military. Thank God I listened to them. Oh, oh, oh, I'm remembering some of my fellow soldiers. Oh, it was bad. so um most of it was because of my transient lifestyle then in 2020 again this is just an excuse me being seen well it was me not taking responsibility but I was living on the road traveling and despite that I actually had a long term relationship with a girl from Tanzania at the time who was in America I don't know how that happened, so yeah I never got married but I did have some good long-term relationships. I was in love. I was happy for periods.
[53:34] And then, at near the tail end of COVID, I did become an alcoholic. And things did fall apart. I've recovered since then.
[53:42] Late in the day? Are you in your 30s?
[53:48] I just turned 31.
[53:50] So like 27, 26, 27?
[53:55] Yeah, 27, 28, I became an alcoholic because all of my work opportunities, which were just starting to look up. I was being offered all kinds of great jobs because of my MOS telecommunications type work. I was being given jobs working on cell phone towers traveling the country, which is one of the reasons why it was so hard to date. Because I was on the road all the time. And it was awesome because I wasn't afraid of hiding in fact I liked them being a little tree monkey as a kid and then I became an alcoholic but all of that just vanished everything just went to shit all at the same time near halfway through COVID around 2021, and then I had to move in to take care of my grandmother because nobody else in the family could and I actually do owe her for unlike most of your followers who feel obliged to their families
[54:48] Sorry, this is your maternal grandmother?
[54:50] So, yeah.
[54:53] And she was the one who raised your mother?
[54:58] She was the one who raised my mother. No, no, she did not.
[55:01] Maternal grandmother, I would think so.
[55:03] Let me think back. Maternal grandmother. She and her husband, first husband, raised my mother until she emancipated at 18, joined the military. And then after that, she kind of, because my mother was in the military, she was never living anywhere near the rest of it.
[55:21] Hang on. I mean, your mother who, she said she became a drug addict, if I remember rightly, and she gave you up to the system?
[55:28] In her late 20s. In her late 20s.
[55:31] So this is the woman who raised your mother who abandoned you?
[55:37] Yes. No, my mother did not abandon me. She has more than made up for it since then. During my adult life, she has more than made up for it. I don't want to go into details, but she has supported me in ways that blow my mind, and I don't feel like I deserve, you know, you probably disagree.
[55:51] You don't feel like you deserve the good things your mother has given you in your 20s.
[55:57] As an adult, like, as an adult, I don't feel like I shouldn't be getting support from my mother. Like, if that makes sense, Iwant to be independent, but I have not been. She did not i was okay but then she became...
[56:12] I mean if you act in ways that your kids are going to.
[56:14] Get taken.
[56:15] Away then that's you're still your thing right.
[56:17] Yes and so for those, 10 years she is no next thing and let me check yeah she's made up exactly 10 years of the problem she's caused me as a child i have completely worked through my issues with her She and I talk almost daily. We are square. Like she and I, she gets a place to live in when she's retirement age.
[56:44] All right. I'm certainly not.... If you feel things are square and she's made up for it, I think that's a lovely thing and good. Now, why didn't your grandmother take you though when you were taken from your mom?
[56:57] I agree completely. That's why I won't be taking care of her come April. I'm leaving. And there's like Four other relatives Of my age Within like 30 minutes
[57:06] Oh so you take care of her now But it's not going to last
[57:08] Like hey She actually visited, Yes Yeah it's not going to last I'm going to tell I'm like hey look She actually visited you Christmas every year She didn't do that for me So you guys You know Pick up your weight And take care of her Now that she's dying
[57:20] How did you become an alcoholic?
[57:24] That was before My mother was fully back in my life I was living in Florida at the time And she was in Arizona
[57:29] Oh so, sorry How long has your mother Been back in your life?
[57:34] She's been back in my life since I was 18 through about 24. Then I was completely on my own through my mid-20s till around.
[57:44] In your mid-20s?
[57:48] I decided I wanted to be an independent, I'll-do-everything-myself kind of guy and just disregarded my family because I was an idiot.
[57:55] Okay, I don't like you calling yourself an idiot, but obviously that's your choice. Okay, so you went and tried to do it on your own.
[58:03] Well, it's regarding your family.
[58:04] okay
[58:05] yeah yes i decided i was going to do everything on my own i paid all my own rent instead of living with relatives um which is very tough on the finances i decided i was going to just work and yeah i just decided to do everything on my own and that was an mistake
[58:22] okay all right and did your mother try to disagree with that or get you to.
[58:28] Oh yeah she tried to convince me to come live back with her but i worried at the time that it was kind of a um, to what is the word interdependent kind of relationship i didn't want to be interdependent on my family because i had that family rip for me so early that i i didn't know how to do that for one and two i didn't want to rely on that because i felt it was too fragile of a thing to rely on.
[58:56] Okay all right well listen i appreciate that backstory and i i thank you for your frankness, and i'm certainly happy to hear more if there's anything else you think i could put my skills to use with regards to those stories or we can return to how to get your listeners to donate.
[59:15] Believe it or not, I'm actually doing very well financially. I just don't like that I have to have these very personal, small-scale relationships with a handful of customers when I want to have a huge family of people that I interact with. It's so pathetic. I'm sure you can see exactly why I want this, is that I want to have conversations constantly with all of my fans, all these people who constantly read and leave comments and leave reviews and have.
[59:48] I'm sorry i thought you wanted more people to subscribe i'm a little confused you say you're doing very well financially which is great but i thought you hang on i thought you needed people you said if i can get uh this number of people to subscribe i can quit and do this full-time or i can afford that'd be 1500 bucks a month i can do it full-time i'm sorry i'm just a little confused if you're well, then why do you need the donations?
[1:00:11] Yes. The problem is I'm trying to balance these two things. I need to be financially supported and I want to have these relationships. It's the same way that you need to be financially supported, but even more so, it really does sound like you need to save the world. Not save the world. I'm aggrandizing you. I don't think you appreciate that. But you want to put all this philosophy out and there's this balance there on me. I want to put out all this art and I want to have these great relationships with my fans and I kind of want to be able to at least feed myself while I do it.
[1:00:41] Again, I thought this conversation, I'm sorry if I misunderstood something, that you need people, so that you can do it full-time, you need people to subscribe.
[1:00:52] I need people to support me $1 to $10 a month. If all my fans did $10 a month, I'd make $15,000 a month. If everyone did $1 per month, that'd be $1,500 a month, I'd be set. That would be enough. But almost as important, and this is a very, I know it sounds a little schizophrenic, but I want to balance these things. I want to have these relationships with the fans for the art. And I want to, you know, be able to feed myself so I can do it.
[1:01:20] You said you're doing very well financially, so do you or do you not need people to donate to you?
[1:01:29] Well, I've been given this choice, is that I can either, for finance, I can either have a small section of customers. Yes, people who pay per chapter versus the actual fans who talk to me about the stuff I write, who love the art, and who have amazing conversations and feedback and call me out on my bullshit and make me a better person, I love that.
[1:01:52] So the financially doing well part is the people who pay you for the chapters, which I assume are private, but you want the public donations so that you can do more public work. Is it something like that? Okay.
[1:02:04] Exactly. I have this dichotomy of money versus passion. That's the dichotomy.
[1:02:10] Okay. All right. All right. All right. Okay. So you said earlier that you say to your listeners, if you do this, then I can do it full time. Is that right?
[1:02:22] I can give you guys exactly what you want, a chapter per day, full time. If you guys just give me $1 to $10 per week. I'm sorry, per month.
[1:02:31] Right. Okay.
[1:02:32] And they said no. That was my answer. And I got a little salty about that. I said, hey, you guys gave me your answer. These other guys are giving me money per chapter. That takes a day. I'm sorry.
[1:02:43] How, um, and have you been producing the work that you want people to donate for, giving it away for free to so to speak so that they and how long have you been doing that for, 2016 oh like nine years so now yeah okay so for nine hang on hang on so for nine years you've been giving the work away for free that you want people to donate for yes and for how long have you been asking them to donate for the work that you've been giving out for free four years, okay got it and how many people do you have who currently give you the one to ten dollars a month.
[1:03:27] About 70.
[1:03:28] Okay, got it. And you need to get that number to what?
[1:03:32] 200.
[1:03:33] 200, okay. And has it been growing in terms of the number of people? Is it growing? Is it going up like exponentially or is it sort of a straight line up or is it diminishing in terms of the number of people, say, every month or couple of months who are donating?
[1:03:49] It's the most infuriating thing. Every month it goes up by a few and goes down by the same amount and it remains exactly the same.
[1:03:56] Okay. And you're convinced that you are giving what people want, right?
[1:04:02] I've talked to them. They tell me what they want. I give them what they tell me they want.
[1:04:06] Yeah, of course. We can't read minds. We just have to go with what they say.
[1:04:09] Exactly.
[1:04:10] All right. So why should people donate?
[1:04:23] To get more of what they want. They say they want this.
[1:04:26] Hang on, but they're already getting what they want. Because since 2016, you've been giving it away, right?
[1:04:31] And then I stopped giving it to what they want because other people are paying me to give them what those individuals want.
[1:04:37] Oh, okay. So when did you, sorry, when did you take this work and put it behind a paywall?
[1:04:41] I did not put my work behind. I put some of my work behind the paywall. And that did help a little bit. But at the same time, the emotional... 2019?
[1:04:53] Okay, and are you still producing work for free that you're asking that you want people to donate for?
[1:05:02] Much more rarely.
[1:05:04] Okay, got it, got it.
[1:05:05] But yes. But because more of my time is being taken up by these actual customers who pay me by the chapter.
[1:05:11] You have to focus on that, which makes money. I get it. Okay. Alright, so why should people donate to you, that is a more compelling reason than what you've given them because you've given them your reasons since uh you know for for many many years and they're still not donating to the level that you want so, what can you tell them that will have them donate or subscribe more and i'm sure you've thought of this kind of stuff i certainly have some ideas but i'm curious what you what you think.
[1:05:47] Well i think it'd be faster just to tell you what I tried. I just went on, hey, hiatus, which means not producing anything for long periods of time. And until people started donating more, that did not happen. I went balls to the wall, full throttle, producing as much as possible of what people said they want for a month. Oh, excuse me. That was a bird. For a month, no blip, nothing. And then, as weird as it sounds, the only thing that made me money was just, oh, hey, here's a fun idea. I'll just do that for a month. I'll just do whatever the hell I want. Am I allowed to say hell?
[1:06:27] Hell yeah.
[1:06:29] I'll do whatever the fuck I want for a month. And I did that.
[1:06:32] I think you ordered us to see you next Tuesday word for someone. So, okay, go ahead.
[1:06:37] Okay. I'll do whatever the fuck I want for a month. And that got me two new actual customers paying me $100 per chapter. I'm like, oh. So, the cure, I don't want this to be true but it seems to be the truth is that, just do what you want build it and they will come.
[1:06:55] So, is your problem largely solved based on that?
[1:06:57] And I don't like that anymore.
[1:06:58] It doesn't make any sense. Oh, sorry. I didn't catch that.
[1:07:00] So, is your problem largely solved based on that?
[1:07:05] It has not gotten me any more money in terms of fans or large-scale relationships, but it has gotten me more personal. Like, me with my personal customers that pay me by the chapter, like, I've met half of them in person. They've come out to my area. We've gone to zoos, hiking trails, and had a great time. We're friends. Like where I'm actually friends with my personal customers. I want more of that because I don't have the family structure that gives me that.
[1:07:30] Right.
[1:07:30] And that's just not happening. So the difficulty is, do I want profitability and small social scales? I'm sorry, small social circles. Small social circles, say that five times. Or do I, and I was actually expecting you to do that. Or do I want to have these large scale relationships with many people? And I want the latter. And I think maybe that's the problem, is that I want these relationships with many people when I should be focusing on these individual relationships with a smaller number of people.
[1:08:01] Right. Okay. All right. So I will tell you how to get more subscribers. Are you ready?
[1:08:10] Yes, sir.
[1:08:11] All right people don't give you money they give money to a cause you share, so the fact that you want to go full-time is meaningless to people, it's like if you go to a car dealership and the car salesman says well i really want to buy my kid a pony does that influence your decision to buy the car
[1:08:34] you kill me so much sir that's the reason people follow you.
[1:08:40] Don't start but they wouldn't right because of course you want to do it full-time but people aren't going to donate for you to you like i basically say don't i don't think i've ever said maybe slip of the tongue kind of thing i don't think i've ever said donate to support me what do i say donate to support or my car to support and that's what i've said.
[1:09:03] Ah I said to support my content.
[1:09:06] Right, no, no, no, no Your people will donate for a mission Not for a person, Like, if you get a letter in the mail and the Cancer Society wants you to donate, does the guy say, donate to me? Donate because I need this job. No, they say, donate to cure cancer, right? Donate to help the homeless. Donate to end muscular dystrophy. Donate to feed the hungry and clothe the cold and shelter the homeless. Donate for a cause. And I don't know that you share a cause. Now, the cause doesn't have to be curing cancer. It doesn't have to be moral philosophy. But you need a cause.
[1:10:00] Yeah. And I think I told somebody else this recently, like, it's amazing that I'm being paid like $25 to $50 per hour doing this. And the only reason that is because Disney is fucking up so bad that every Star Wars fan will say, please, write a Star Wars story that doesn't suck balls.
[1:10:17] Right.
[1:10:17] I'll pay you. And that's the only reason I'm able to make a living doing this, which was my hobby in high school.
[1:10:22] Okay, so your cause could be rescue this great universe from shitty storytelling. Rescue these characters. Rescue this universe. Restore the grandeur of the old Republic story time. Like, whatever it's going to be. Donate for the cause not for me because if you have a course that you share and your passion shines through in these kinds of stories i'm sure the fan fiction right so if you have a mission that you both share they're not donating to you they're donating to a mission right.
[1:10:57] And so my comments were saying what i was saying hey you guys had the chance you all you said no money talks, that was me being completely out of line when I should have been saying...
[1:11:09] Well, you're taking it personally.
[1:11:10] I was taking it personally.
[1:11:11] Okay, I get that. I was saying that it's not about you.
[1:11:14] Well, not only that I was taking it personally, it was that I felt like I was going insane because I was viewing it from a mathematical market perspective.
[1:11:23] No, no.
[1:11:23] You were viewing it from an ego.
[1:11:25] Hang on, hang on. You were viewing it from an ego perspective and that's why I asked you about your childhood. You had a catastrophic deficiency of love, care, and attention towards you as a child. I think that's fair to say, isn't it?
[1:11:39] But I guess, but I would say that the problem I was struggling with-
[1:11:42] Hang on.
[1:11:43] Hang on. You told me, I mean, you went on like a five, seven minute rant, which I appreciated about the California system, right?
[1:11:51] Mm-hmm.
[1:11:52] So when I say you had a pretty catastrophic deficiency of love, care, and attention as a child, is that fair to say? I think it is, unless I've completely misunderstood your history. You had stuff stolen from you. You had $15,000 worth of computer equipment that your grandfather left you stolen from you. There was creepy sexual stuff. There was violence. You were in danger, although, as you said, never raped. Yay, small mercies or maybe large mercies given the situation. But you were not loved as a kid?
[1:12:29] I was not.
[1:12:30] Right. And that's a very, very tough thing. and so the tendency is if we grow up without if we grow up without that very stable strong pair bond and people who really love and care about us then we are very prone, and very thin-skinned to rejection.
[1:12:51] I have not been thin-skinned to rejection i think i said earlier that i was trying to balance the monetary side with a personal side. The personal side of what I do is wonderful. I've been read by over 2 million people, like 2 million individual people. I've read my stuff. I get dozens of conversations per day from my fans. The social aspect, I am very happy with it. The problem I was having was balancing the social with the financial, and the financial part was driving me insane because what people were saying, wasn't matching the monetary value they were bringing. And I couldn't monetize it.
[1:13:33] Okay. My impression was that you felt somewhat hurt and angry that people weren't subscribing.
[1:13:40] I did, but that was me conflating two different issues together, and that's on me.
[1:13:45] I'm not blaming you for it. I mean, it's natural to feel that way, but those feelings of rejection tend to be exacerbated if you don't have a strong pair bond with loving parents when you're young.
[1:13:56] Yes, sir. And I've had, and as I already explained, a lot of my relationships were certainly transient as a result.
[1:14:03] Right, right. Got it. Okay. So there needs to be a cause that you get people enrolled into or excited about. You know, we're going to save the Star Wars universe from shitty feminist storytelling. Like, whatever it's going to be.
[1:14:20] Kathleen Kennedy. We'll save it from KathleenKennedy.
[1:14:23] Yeah yeah so it's it's a mission and and we're at war you know and and you could you could do a i sort of get this image of the opening of the first star wars movie you know the giant death destroyer chasing princess leia's little pew pew like her little uh spaceship it's like okay so disney is the star destroyer and you are the plucky little rebel alliance who's trying to you know save save the story save the um the the republic so there needs to be a mission, that people aren't just giving you money they're giving money towards a mission which is why i say and it's not hypocritical i genuinely i mean this is what i do i'm promoting philosophy and i'm one of the most successful people in history to promote philosophy and it's like help support philosophy help support the show help support what it is that i'm doing not me because it's not a me thing and that takes the equation out now when
[1:15:20] That's very humble sir.
[1:15:21] When i i'm sorry.
[1:15:24] I said that's very humble of you sir.
[1:15:25] Well i mean i i serve philosophy and you know that's that's the gig now also when you ask people to donate you trigger a lot of childhood shit with people, You do, because a lot of people have relationships to public figures, and you are, of course, a public figure in your way. A lot of people have relationship to public figures in the same way that they have a relationship to their parents. Now, if you are a parent, you give and give and give to your children, and you don't charge them, right? I mean, I didn't require my daughter to peruse the menu, pay $5 for a sandwich, and leave a tip. When she was five years old, right? So a lot of people, if they have not gone through that process of having parents devoted to them and getting things for free, then when you ask for reciprocity, they get very upset. They get very upset because they experience it as a parent asking for money. You say, hey, kid, you're six years old. I'll take you to the playground, but you've got to give me $3.55.
[1:16:43] I mean, that would be bizarre and really off-putting and, you know, pretty negative, right? So that's why earlier I was questioning your relationship to free. Because children, and I'm not calling you a child, and I'm not calling people who experience this, but if you've had the experience as a kid of not being loved and cared for and devoted to by loving parents, then you have an incomplete receiving aspect of your personality you need to receive, and it usually arise arises from incomplete grieving so you know one of the things that i worked on in my 20s was just the recognition that i was never going to have a happy childhood, it could never be fixed it could never be undone and with all due respect to your story with your mother which you don't want to talk about which is totally fine of course for me there was no undoing what i had suffered as a child i just had to kind of find a way to get closure to grieve it to work from it but a lot of people don't take that approach what they do is they won't do the grieving they keep that hope open they keep that hope alive and then what happens is they enter into relationships with others in the hopes of receiving what they didn't receive as children.
[1:18:06] People do it through sex people do it through money people do it through power people do it through authority they do it through uh the ability to offer gifts they do it through any number of things and so for a lot of people i am internet daddy.
[1:18:22] And i mean i'm literally called that by countless people over the years which is i mean it's i find that very flattering and i appreciate the the subric way but they view me as internet daddy and i should be there for them and i should not charge them to go to the fucking playground, Right. So I think that is one of the issues that people have. And so when, because you said earlier, when you would ask for money, people would get angry. Right. And they would accuse you of begging. How did he begging? I mean, I've been called an e-beggar almost as many times as I've been called a Jew. Right. So I'm neither begging nor Jewish.
[1:19:03] I am a Jew, and I think you can take it as a little bit of a compliment, sir.
[1:19:06] So the sort of e-begging, so people get angry because when you ask for reciprocity in your relationships with people, it disturbs the parent-child thing that's going on in their mind. And again, I know this sounds kind of abstract, but just let me sort of make the case. We'll see if it makes any sense. so people have this uh they they take comfort in you providing them stuff for free, because it allows them to avoid grieving whatever they didn't get as as children and then when you say wait hang on we're both adults you need to exchange value for value what happens is.
[1:19:50] They then are yanked out of the childhood parent relationship and put into an equal adult-adult relationship which makes them angry or to put it in a sort of deeper and more complex way their inner parents get angry because when somebody demands reciprocity or asks for reciprocity asks for sort of fair trading and the exchange of value then it destabilizes the bad parenting that went on early on so so that the sort of e-begging the people get get angry and they feel humiliated that you're asking them for money because they're in a child parent relationship and you're by pointing by asking for reciprocity you're saying to them look you're not you're not children we're adults we should exchange value value right i mean you wouldn't, providing a value. We all do it from time to time, but if you're doing it considerably, as you said, sort of 450 hours. So what happens is you ask for money.
[1:21:00] And people are jolted out of their child-parent relationship, and then they get angry because it does remind them that they're still kind of immature. They have a lot of unprocessed stuff to deal with from their childhoods. Because, of course, you and I both know, I mean, you're almost 31, right? So you know that adults need to exchange value. Otherwise, it's parasitical, right? Otherwise, it's exploitive if you're simply taking value without providing reciprocity. And again, for me, I've always said that the reciprocity does not have to be financial. People can share my work. They can talk about the ideas, even if they don't want to identify me as being too controversial. Right. They can. I don't. As long as you're doing something to spread philosophy, you're a bosom buddy of mine. It doesn't have to be money, although there certainly is some necessity for that, given that we live in a cash based society.
[1:21:51] So when you ask for things, people get angry. Now, also, what happens is it kind of flips so that when you're asking for things, there's a famous scene from, of course, Oliver Twist by Dickens, where Oliver Twist is still hungry at the orphanage. And he goes up and he says, please, sir, can I have some more? And it's like more. Like it's just absolutely appalling that a child would have needs and preferences. So they are in a child-parent relationship with you in that you're supposed to provide endless things without reciprocity, which is exactly what parents are supposed to do. But then when you ask for something, the roles switch in their mind and now you become...
[1:22:36] A child who is asking a parent for something. See, it has to be child parent. They're child parent to you. When you ask for something, it flips and you are now the child and they are the parent. And that's why they get aggressive. And they say, you're e-begging. It's desperate. It's pathetic because that's what happened to a lot of people when they would ask their parents for something is they would get a lot of aggression in return. So understanding all of this means people are just you know they're just tripping on childhood leftovers it's nothing to do with you and it doesn't matter relative to the cause and what they're trying to do is they're trying to bully you into shutting up and give them something for free again just shut up stop asking get back into providing me stuff for free it's a kind of exploitation and that's sort of parent child so you know the parents who say you owe me respect you owe me obedience it's give me something for free. I don't have to earn it. You just owe it to me. Honor thy mother and thy father. You owe me respect. You owe me honor. And so the moment as adults, we say, look, we need an exchange of value here. I'm providing something of value. You should provide something of value back.
[1:23:50] The exploitive relationships that they grew up with are directly challenged and it freaks people the f out and they they get very aggressive and and destabilized and it's nothing to do with you, it's not your fault that people had bad childhoods and we can't spend our whole lives tiptoeing around people's bad childhoods because then the bad guys win and and so on right so let's go then to something more practical which is, when you ask for donations.
[1:24:27] You get tense about it i think and i understand that people do i mean if you've ever been in sales you know that actually asking for the sale is you know rather than just chatting up the product actually asking to sign on the dotted line can be stressful for people but the thing that will get you the most response is direct honesty not anything else other than direct honesty i really care about philosophy i want an income to help support philosophy and it matters a lot to me now if you're saying well i can do this full time and so on that's your needs, and i think the most like what is the most honest thing that you could say to people about why you want them to donate what's the most honest and vulnerable thing that you can say to people about why you want them to support you.
[1:25:27] Well, let me first say that as you spoke, there were so many conclusions you came to that I came to before you even said them. I just would never have explained them anywhere near as erudite as you did. The dependency relationship was something that you led me into before you even said it. And this is why I listen to you and so many people listen to you because you make us think. But my conclusion from all of this and conclusions that I kind of flirted with before we actually had this call, which is so glad we had this call, is that I need to divorce, this monetary relationship I want to have with this other relationship I want to have, which is the art for the art's sake. You, like, I need to, I think I'm just going to cut out the donation half of the equation entirely because the only thing that's brought me profit was this one-on-one, tell me what story you want me to write. I'm your bitch. I'll write it. You pay me. I'll write it. And I just should just focus on that. And what the problem I was going through It was that I was adding all this personal emotion to where it didn't have to go. I needed to keep the business and personal.
[1:26:31] No, no, no, you're dodging. You're dodging. So I asked you what's the most open and honest thing that you could say. And you're like, well, I don't need to ask for donations at all.
[1:26:42] Did you tell me what to write? I'll write it. That's the most honest thing I can say.
[1:26:46] No, because that is not a donation pitch.
[1:26:52] I don't think the donation is because you said yourself
[1:26:56] because i thought that the whole point of this conversation is you want to get to that 1500 bucks a month of stable income right.
[1:27:05] Which i've gotten closer to.
[1:27:07] With a small number of an actual 70 to what was it 200 people or 100 people or something like that right to get your your base so for me i if you don't want to do it that's obviously totally fine but for me it's like you know please you know um i provide a fantastic service philosophy is really important to the world please help out what it is that i'm doing please help out philosophy please support what it is i've also made the case that if you pay value for value that signals to your unconscious that you're actually really serious about philosophy our conscious sorry our unconscious mind doesn't care about what we say it only cares about what we do like our belly doesn't care if we say the word diet 50 times a day it only cares if they're more or less food you know our lungs don't live on the word air they actually need oxygen so our bodies are unconscious all runs on actual facts not stated intentions and so if you say or if somebody says i'm going to do 10 or 20 bucks a month.
[1:28:08] To philosophy your unconscious is like oh okay so it's not just a game it's not just entertainment we're kind of serious about this because we're actually applying resources to it like if you think about playing piano nothing really changes uh if you think about learning piano nothing really changes but if you spend half an hour a week practicing piano your brain will actually start to change oh we're actually doing this oh we're it's serious okay we'll start to rewire things we'll start to learn new things and all of that so there is an integrity aspect to it that if it is a mature and adult thing to do to exchange value for value and it is actually treating yourself like a child if you expect everything.
[1:28:50] For free and the way that you signal to your mind that you're an adult is you exchange value for value and you just like you go to a restaurant and you're going to pay for your meal if you go to your mom's place you don't pay for your meal right because that's a parent.
[1:29:05] Relationship so that there's a lot of benefits that people get from donating and of course i get tons of emails from people who are like yeah you're right you know now that i i've donated i i'm taking a lot more seriously and it really means a lot more to me and and so on and the other thing too is that of course for me and again it's different for what you do but uh maybe there's similar principles which is uh donating uh gets you to uh get the right of complaining and the right of complaining is really important in life right so if if you've supported philosophy and the world goes to hell so if you support philosophy and then the world goes to hell you can say well i did my bit whereas if you don't support philosophy and the world goes to hell you might look back and say well gee maybe i should have supported philosophy and you really don't you can't really complain about the lack of philosophy in the world not you individually but people really can't complain about the lack of philosophy in the world if they're not even going to donate sort of five or ten or twenty bucks a month for philosophy so so there's a lot that's very honest stuff that that i'm aware of and uh you could say you know maybe you you can buy the right to complain about bad stories if you support good stories
[1:30:21] oh. Oh okay that's what i lost okay so people who can't have the right to complain about how trash.
[1:30:28] No no no no i got not no no not how trash your stuff is.
[1:30:34] I'm sorry. I'm a little, they have the right to complain.
[1:30:37] Well, yeah, I mean, if you think that sort of mainstream Star Wars stories are terrible, then, you know, support someone who's writing really good Star Wars stories and then you can say to people, here are the good things, look how much better they are, look at the, like, you then get the right to complain but if you don't even support people writing really good Star Wars stories, you can't really complain about bad Star Wars stories if that makes sense.
[1:30:59] God, that makes perfect sense. That's what I didn't understand for a second. So, Here's the conclusions I've come to. It's that I am getting two different types of reciprocity for this. One is monetary. One is non-monetary. The reason I originally started writing was for the art of it and for the connection with people. And it has more than paid dividends in that. Just writing has gotten me great connections, has made me friends, and I've traveled all around the world.
[1:31:25] Unlike your last job, the only sexual harassment you experience is from yourself. And that's always a huge plus. Because you're HR too.
[1:31:32] I have experienced sexual harassment from the writing. I have, but I can ignore it by blocking the people.
[1:31:37] It's hashtag, #MeTwoHands. Anyway, go on.
[1:31:41] Yes. Yes, so I have experienced sexual harassment from writing by people leaving stuff that was just straight up and writing porn to fuck with me. But I can just block that, so it's very easy to deal with. But on the other hand, though, I have also discovered the monetary reciprocity, which was a separate relationship. And there is some overlap, but I've been too obsessed with, I do believe this is my conclusion, I'm sure it's not what you were trying to lead me to, but I think I should keep them separate. I should write and enjoy the love of writing for the art and have those non-monetary relationships with people. Because like you said, you've received so much non-monetary benefits from this show, the amazing conversations and relationships you've built with people that are worth more than all the money you've gotten combined.
[1:32:25] No, I wouldn't agree with that at all. No, because the conversations that I have to people... I mean, so let's look at the conversation I'm having with you. I have solved, to a large degree, I have solved the problem of donations, or at least I'm relatively satisfied, with donations.
[1:32:42] And so this is to your benefit and to the benefit of other people who listen.
[1:32:45] I'm very happy to have the conversations. I'm not saying this is some sort of personal self-sacrifice, but it's sort of like if you're already slender and muscular and you're trying to help other people become slender and muscular, it is more for their benefit than for yours unless you're being paid directly which is kind of not the case with what i do so i'm very happy to have these conversations but i wouldn't say that for me having this sort of call-in shows is worth more than all the donations no no i mean it's it's a value and that's why i get the right to ask for donations because i do such a good job in these kinds of conversations.
[1:33:22] My experience has been very different from you, and that's fine. We're very different people. I really do value at least as much as the monetary stuff I've had from the separate relationship of offering my services as a writer to writing for the passion of it. And so I think I should just divorce them. I think my passion for the passion's sake, exchanging stories for stories. And I've motivated people to become writers, so they've done amazing stuff. And that's brought me more joy, almost more than being able to eat.
[1:33:52] Okay, so my understanding is that you've got to focus on the paid work and not worry about the subscriptions. Is that right?
[1:34:00] I'm going to stop harassing the people. I say I've harassed people because I've been a little mean about it. I'm going to stop haranguing people for donations. I'm going to say, these are my services. I will write stuff for you if you pay me. If you don't, enjoy my free stuff. It's great. I know...
[1:34:19] i personally i don't think that's what i mean obviously it's your choice i don't think that's what to get out of what i'm saying i think you're backing away from a challenge of just asking for what you want what you want is you what you want is to hang out and hang on what you want hang on what you want is the 1500 bucks a month that's a stable basis so you can do that sort of stuff full-time that's what you want now there's nothing wrong in any and all of your relationships, of stating what you want i want people to donate to what it is that i do that's what i want now i'm not going to force anyone obviously right but you know you know you did when you dated the, japanese girl the thai girl the girl from what's it tasmania or something like that so so when you so when you date you stated to them and you said listen i'd like to go out or let's get a coffee like you stated what you want and so if there's something that you want from your audience.
[1:35:15] It's a very powerful thing to just say it. And yeah, people will bitch and moan. My God, I mean, I've told the story a million times, but like, I can't remember how long it was like a decade or more ago. Someone sent me two bucks and I posted a picture of the $2 without the person's name, of course. And I said, I don't mean to sound ungrateful, but, and you know, it's still literally a meme where people think I was screaming at a listener because he only donated a dollar and haranguing him. All of that is completely false. but the reality is is that i i'm gonna say in all of my relationships i'm gonna say what i want, and people can like it they can not like it i frankly don't care i don't care i mean i care with the people i'm close to and all of that but i you know if if uh if i was doing something that was annoying my wife i'd want her to tell me if i'm doing something that makes my wife happy, i want her to tell me and so in relationships as a whole now when you were growing up right your opinions didn't matter right because you were stuck in this terrible system and people were ripping you off and creepy sex stuff was floating around and violence and so on so you could not express what you wanted as a kid and have it mean something right.
[1:36:33] Absolutely correct i was the most um what are the what is the ocean score openness conscientiousness the opposite of conscientiousness i was as aggressive and contrary as possible i.
[1:36:45] Told okay but you but you still
[1:36:47] i paid the price
[1:36:47] you couldn't yeah you couldn't express what you wanted and have people listen and care right right so hang on hang on and
[1:36:55] so i didn't care, to them
[1:36:56] So, when I say to you, what's the most honest way that you could express what you want with your listeners, you immediately say, well, I'm just not going to ask anyone. I'm just shutting it down. I'm just going to go with the paid stuff because I think it's quite upsetting for you. And I completely understand why. This is no criticism. I think it's quite upsetting for you to think that you might just have to express what you want. Or you could just express what you want and maybe have it work out. I think it's difficult and stressful. And again, I understand why, I think, and I sympathize with that. But I think it's difficult and stressful for you to say that... You are just going to say what you want and let the tips fall where they may, because if you tried that when you were a kid, very bad things happen. So listen, I'm not obviously going to make you do that or something like that, but I am going to sort of suggest that I think about that as a possibility, that it might be worth saying that.
[1:38:05] I'll say a lot of what you said was exactly correct. A little bit of it was off-base because of my poor explaining. One is i am still going to say hey you can still donate to me and actually what has worked recently was saying hey thank you guys for supporting me and just saying thank you and that has gotten me some support more support than just being right hey support me support
[1:38:26] so listen listen
[1:38:27] i will i need to say
[1:38:28] i'm gonna stop here i have something i need.
[1:38:30] To do so i've just i just put it out there.
[1:38:33] As a possibility and.
[1:38:34] And maybe it'll work for you maybe it won't but i would definitely.
[1:38:36] Say that.
[1:38:37] Breaking those kind of patterns is usually really a good idea. And is there something that did you want to mention your website in case people want to drop by?
[1:38:48] Oh, no, I'm not here to... I write really terrible fan fiction. I don't want to get involved. I just want to say yes.
[1:38:55] I really do appreciate your time today.
[1:39:00] Yes, yours is a...
[1:39:02] Have a great day.
[1:39:02] Have a great one.
[1:39:03] Bye.
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