Transcript: How to Survive a Crime Family! Freedomain Call In

Chapters

0:01 - Introduction to Our Journey
8:29 - A Father's Wrath
19:03 - Struggles with Self-Worth
20:27 - Teenage Years and Dating
37:46 - The Impact of Tom Likas
52:12 - Family Breakdown
54:06 - Recent Life Changes
59:02 - Realizations and Responsibilities
1:01:42 - Struggles and Escapes
1:03:18 - Relationship Dynamics
1:05:26 - Parenting Aspirations
1:07:05 - Seeking Therapy
1:10:08 - Career Changes
1:11:45 - Major Decisions
1:15:53 - Finding Love
1:24:58 - Uncovering Family Secrets
1:32:37 - Emotional Turmoil
1:35:42 - The Impact of Abuse
1:42:08 - Confronting the Past
1:47:20 - Breaking Free
1:53:23 - Moving Forward

Long Summary

The interview unfolds as Stefan engages a caller in a candid discussion about the caller's tumultuous life experiences, beginning with the caller's challenges in establishing a connection after a prolonged wait due to technical issues. The caller expresses feelings of desperation that initially prompted him to reach out, as well as gratitude for the impact Stefan’s work has had on his life.

As the conversation progresses, the caller reveals deep-seated issues related to his incapacity to feel love, leading to self-examination about his childhood and relationships. He delves into a harrowing account of his upbringing, describing a chaotic home environment marked by extreme violence and trauma. The caller recounts vivid memories from his very early childhood that underscore the abusive dynamics between his parents. His father’s violent tendencies and his mother’s struggles with a legacy of abuse form a backdrop that has severely affected the caller’s emotional development and ability to maintain healthy relationships.

Stefan invites the caller to explore his past, leading to a discussion on the impact of childhood trauma. The caller recalls specific traumatic incidents, including a near-fatal confrontation instigated by his father when the caller was merely two years old. The revelation of such memories, despite their age and intensity, highlights the profound effects that early trauma can have on memory and emotional processing. Their conversation shifts towards the caller’s relationships, particularly his abusive behavior towards his younger sister, revealing layers of guilt and regret that still burden him today.

The discussion further probes into the caller's teenage years, marked by self-loathing and an inability to connect romantically with others. His feelings of unworthiness and self-destructive behaviors culminated in significant barriers to forming intimate relationships, underscoring how his childhood influenced his adult interactions. Transitioning into his 20s, the caller discusses a period of personal growth through education and fitness, juxtaposed against a continued struggle with substance abuse and violence.

Stefan responds empathetically, acknowledging the caller's difficult journey and the entangled relationship patterns that have emerged from his traumatic experiences. The conversation takes a turn towards exploring the caller's relationships with his girlfriend and her family, compounding the complexity of navigating love while carrying the weight of past abuses.

The complexity of their shared history becomes a focal point of conversation as the caller navigates the fallout from his girlfriend’s past sexual abuse by her brother. Stefan raises important questions about how such history can shape relationships and the necessity of confronting such difficult truths for healing. Together, they explore the nuances of emotional vulnerability and the struggle to break free from the chains of familial dysfunction.

As the caller shares his concerns about recurrent suicidal thoughts, Stefan steers the discussion towards understanding those impulses in the context of his past experiences. He emphasizes the importance of shedding the fear instilled by his criminal family upbringing, ultimately framing the situation as a battle against internalized narratives rooted in survival instincts. The conversation serves as a cathartic acknowledgment of these fears, while reiterating the importance of healing and moving forward.

Towards the conclusion, Stefan emphasizes the caller's achievements in escaping his traumatic past and creating a semblance of normalcy, even suggesting that the very act of breaking free from his past is a profound victory. With a mix of encouragement and philosophical insights about human capacity for change, Stefan helps the caller see that his narrative, while painful, is not the end of his story but the beginning of a new chapter.

In closing, they both reflect on the notion of familial ties as anchors or chains—recognizing that the caller has, in fact, forged his own path while freeing himself from the legacies of his past. With mutual respect, they acknowledge each other's journeys, reiterating the importance of resilience and support in overcoming adversity. The caller concludes with a commitment to continue his personal growth while remaining grateful for the insights he has gained, setting a positive tone for his future endeavors.

Transcript

Stefan

[0:00] Oh, can you hear me?

[0:01] Introduction to Our Journey

Caller

[0:02] Yeah, yeah, I can hear you just fine. Can you hear me okay?

Stefan

[0:05] Yeah, yeah, not too bad, not too bad. It's a nice phone. I think I have something kind of similar. So, yeah, nice to meet you. I think this has got to be one of the longest left-on-read receipts in history because it was like, what, two and a half years ago or something like that I first left you a message. And I'm sorry you didn't get it, but I'm glad we're getting a chance to chat now.

Caller

[0:28] The apology belongs on my lips, sir. I absolutely just was inept with Skype, unknowledgeable and unprepared, but more so it was I contacted you more so out of desperation, it would seem. But I am 100% honored. I've listened to you for years. And Tom Likas led me to Aaron Clary, led me to you. And I'm honestly just the good you've done for my life. I am very grateful.

Stefan

[1:02] Well, I'm very, very glad to have been of service. And again, I'm sorry that it took so long for us to connect. But I like this guy. It's like, I love when you log into Skype every half decade. To see if I have a message, but at least we're chatting. So yeah, I'm all ears. So how can I best help? I mean, of course, I do have your original message, but I'm sure things have changed a bit since then. So I'm all ears. If you have issues or challenges that I can help with, lay them on me.

Caller

[1:33] All right. Well, the master of logic trees could certainly deduce some things that I could not. Well, I'm certainly, I think I'm less desperate than I was when I originally called you. One of my main issues was that I have a terrible incapacity to feel love in any form. And then I read real-time relationships and tried to understand that. And I don't know if I'm holding people to an impossibly high standard, or if it's just that I don't have good people in my life because I myself am not being a good person. But I have been searching, it seems like forever and have found a desert. In that sense uh i sorry go ahead and i believe that originally just more so due to my own ignorance and poor behavior i have essentially ostracized myself from that group for most of my life and now the search seems to be just beginning and i don't really have those positive influences or even to be able to positively influence others in my life it seems right.

Stefan

[2:59] Okay uh how old are you.

Caller

[3:02] I am 39 at this time.

Stefan

[3:06] Okay got it got it well um i'm sure that you know that in my general perception of belief, the best place to start is with the childhood. So tell me how it was for you as a kid.

Caller

[3:22] I don't know if it could have started much worse. Um i mean my first memory was of my i mean my father was 19 when i was born and my mother was 30. And so there was a large gap my mother came from an incredibly abusive household a farm where anything from the murder of pets in front of the children to physical violence, sexual abuse.

[4:00] And incredible close proximity. I mean, just disgusting, horrible things. I would say my mother had an ACE score of probably about the same as me, which is a nine. So I imagine hers may have even been a 10 for crying out loud and um i don't think that excuses her choices and behavior i mean she chose a man who i mean my my father i don't know enough about him to be honest but he was raised in the deep south of my country and he his father and him had some sort of falling out when he was a teenager and so he just like his grandfather also my known oh you know my great-grandfather on his mother's side decided that he would live in a shack in the woods and that isolation drove him i would say at least insane but he was a genius he he had an incredible eidetic memory he memorized the bible he would definitely um he wouldn't accept no foreign answer if he knew he was correct and would be very violent and pushy he would put his gun in people's faces if he felt that they had wronged him enough and.

[5:29] I mean my mother got a ride home from her boss and when my father saw him with her in the car in the parking lot he went out there put a gun in the man's face and said don't you go near my wife again so um and that's just to give a background on the parents themselves i myself um like like i And he was physically violent and verbally abusive to a great extent. He felt like he had to be in control of everything.

[6:05] So, and you'll have to forgive me because I'm amped up a bit when I talk about this because I don't talk about it with really anyone. Um so my father when i was two um him and my mother had gone through a divorce separated she grabbed myself and my sister the only two children at the time and we um went to her parents house so essentially she i don't know if the term is correct but kidnapped us and got us away from our father. And in the night while she was staying there, he broke in, rounded up the entire family, and put a gun in my hand and told me to shoot my mother.

Stefan

[7:04] I'm sorry, how old were you?

Caller

[7:07] Two.

Stefan

[7:11] Sorry you were how old two years old two years old okay, that's i mean that's obviously horrendous and appalling and you remember of this of course right i mean at the age of two i mean that's pretty vivid right it's.

Caller

[7:30] I've got snippets and And believe it or not, the therapists I've been to in my life, not one of them believes that I could remember that, but something that intense. It actually awakened my long-term memory early. And my father's eidetic memory, I have inherited a pretty strong memory myself. I don't have eidetic memory, but it's very strong. So yes, sir, that is true.

Stefan

[7:58] Wow. Wow. Okay. And obviously you didn't, I assume, you didn't shoot your mom?

Caller

[8:07] No, I was told, the part that I don't remember was that apparently I panicked and just cried and couldn't hold anything. I mean, can a toddler really hold a gun steady? I can't imagine, but I just remember that it was dark and for some reason my grandfather was naked.

[8:29] A Father's Wrath

Stefan

[8:29] Wow and so you're you were kidnapped with your father who kidnapped you right.

Caller

[8:35] Um it was my my mother who uh kidnapped myself and my sister and then ran to her parents we were all in her parents home all.

Stefan

[8:44] Right and so then your father was trying to get you back is that right.

Caller

[8:47] Uh it seemed like he was trying to kill the whole family in some sort of revenge which I imagine he was a man who had to have control. After that, he escaped from that, after realizing that what he wanted would not come to be, and the police found him on the highway, took him to a mental institution where he was diagnosed. I remember it was at least two pages, front to back, at least 30 to 40 lines of multiple different diagnoses of different mental problems and disorders. And I only caught a glimpse of those papers when I was going through my grandfather's things. When he died he for some reason had a copy of this but uh yeah so that's the information i have on that incident um when he behaved the way they wanted him to and got out of that mental institution he just covered everything in his home with a tarp and disappeared off the face of the earth.

Stefan

[10:13] Sorry, who did?

Caller

[10:14] My father.

Stefan

[10:15] Your father. Okay, but sorry, did he not go to prison or anything like that?

Caller

[10:19] He was not imprisoned in anything other than the mental institution, which in the remote area it was in, it was in a hospital ward.

Stefan

[10:33] Okay, got it. Okay. Yeah, so he was considered not responsible in a sense by reason of insanity. Is that right? Okay.

Caller

[10:42] I don't know if they ever used the word insanity. I just have the data I have. But I've always considered him responsible and have held a great sadness and rage.

Stefan

[10:59] So responsible for everything that he did, right?

Caller

[11:01] Yeah his actions i mean you've taught me a lot about um accountability so a lot of those delusions have been cleared but i may be missing something yet we'll find out.

Stefan

[11:16] Right right okay so what happened after that.

Caller

[11:21] Um then uh, My mother became your stereotypical single mother. She ran a shelter for abused women. And I, myself and my sister, lived pretty, I guess, neglected lives. My my little sister she was hyper intelligent as well and she certainly suffered and me with my ignorance i well you we you've taught me where sadism comes from so yes i was sadistic and abusive towards my sister verbally and physically, and my attempts to apologize for that to this day she will not talk to me and I have regrets about it for sure but I have certainly tried right.

Stefan

[12:34] Right I'm sorry about all of that gosh gosh gosh.

Caller

[12:39] You taught me to take responsibility and that apology comes in three parts so i have definitely done what i can yeah.

Stefan

[12:50] And of course you can't can't force people to accept apologies uh so what what are her major objections i assume that she has major objections to what you did or said and what would she say if she was on the call and say well why didn't you accept history's uh apologies what would she say.

Caller

[13:05] She well she would say probably you're just like your phone you're just like our father she would say his name um and that uh it's probably knowing her and her hyper intelligence she would say it's too little too late uh probably in more complex terms and And then I would like to think that she would review individual instances of the abuses that I had incurred upon her. And then I would, of course, offer her profuse apologies. And I mean, I'd love to talk to her. It's just sad that I would offer preparation.

Stefan

[13:50] Sorry, what would she bring up that would be the worst things for her?

Caller

[13:55] Um probably just instant probably instances of just physical violence um where i would get angry and then i would hit her and i and then i would have and then i would absolutely profusely apologize i mean there were there were many instances where it was just physical violence sometimes verbal abuse belittling just almost like a primitive status and dominance It's chimp-like behavior, in my opinion.

Stefan

[14:25] And how old were you guys when this was going on?

Caller

[14:30] This occurred probably until I was 16 or 17, and she was two years younger than me, so most of her childhood, I mean, I was like an abusive, terrible parent in short. Possibly worse. I'm confused as to, you know, I think an abusive parent is terrible enough, but an abusive sibling, it's like she got it twice.

Stefan

[15:00] And what sort of levels of violence would you inflict?

Caller

[15:04] Uh generally just open hand smacks no closed fists beatings or anything where it was like in intentional of permanent damage just dominance chimp like behavior they open palms smack on the back or the butt or the arm or the jab and that you know you just start jabbing them just to, just to prove you're better in the worst ways.

Stefan

[15:34] I'm sorry about that. And what, uh, how often were you violent?

Caller

[15:41] Uh, I would say several, I would say sometimes it was, let's see, let me just come up with an average number here. I would say probably about 50 times a year. On the bridge right.

Stefan

[16:01] And what was the sort of verbal stuff that she had to endure.

Caller

[16:09] Mostly i i always had this for the longest time until therapy brought it to light go figure, i always thought i was that my intelligence made me more dominant so i always would belittle her intelligence and tell her that she was being dumb or making bad choices or or that uh her choices you know it was as if you'd better behave the way i want because i'm smarter than you kind of dominance play and right okay and yeah that seemed to be the running theme for me.

Stefan

[16:48] Right right and how has her life gone as a whole.

Caller

[16:53] Well, I'd say she did better than she and I have done better than either of us could have ever expected. But she ended up having a friend who was hyper intelligent quite a bit, full ride scholarship, extremely good writer, very, very strong will, free will young lady who taught her. I mean, my sister confronted my mother when she was only maybe 13, and I never managed to do that until I was almost 30. It was amazing that she ended up getting that kind of defu and self-awareness early compared to myself, and she ended up...

[17:55] Uh going to college getting into veterinary science and then near the end of college she kind of, i don't know if the term is sabotage herself but she ended up having a child with a man who didn't have a lot of capability he was a guy who played football and got a brain injury and worked construction but you know she she had a daughter and then um after i d food from pretty much everything i heard that she had a second daughter and that they're doing okay unfortunately it seems she still lives in our town of origin and that is uh where our abusive mother still lives and i I hope she's not in touch with her abuser, because I know the chaos that can cause.

Stefan

[18:49] Yeah, especially for her kids, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Caller

[18:52] Amen to that.

Stefan

[18:54] And what happened with your dating in your teenage years?

[19:03] Struggles with Self-Worth

Caller

[19:04] Myself, and I've had so much self-loathing. I never thought that I was worth it to anybody or anything. Like i was self-destructive uh my thanatos was immensely strong i i honestly didn't expect to live long um i i loved violence i i i when it came to women um they were just kind of this thing that I never thought that I was attractive at all. I really thought that I was unworthy of love.

Stefan

[19:48] Right. Right. I mean, so that's your mental process. What about your actual act of dating? Did you date much as a teenager?

Caller

[19:59] No. I had I actually had two women approach me and when they asked me out, I, i i look back on this and i i can only imagine how cruel i sounded i mean um i rejected them thinking that they were joking like that they were doing it just to make fun of me or mock me right.

[20:27] Teenage Years and Dating

Stefan

[20:27] Yeah, it can be tough. If you disagree with other people's assessments of your value, it can come out pretty cruel, right?

Caller

[20:35] Yeah, especially when it's hardwired by terrible parental influences and personal choices that just reinforce it.

Stefan

[20:46] Right, right. And then how did things go into your late teens and early 20s in your life as a whole?

Caller

[20:56] I was 18 i mean i always got good grades with ease so i went from high school into college and i decided i didn't want a desk job so i got into the field of lasers and went through college pretty rapidly started to exercise more and care more up until then i was a bit of a lethargic, obsessive video game reality escape artist if that's not that's a little extravagant for a term but still i i really did uh practice a lot of escapism through video games books movies whatever i could get a hold of and so as a result i was a you know a fat weak young man and so when i got into college, they had a free gym. I had learned how to lift weights from my local high school. And I just started to exercise more. And that gave me the endorphins to kind of walk forward with some confidence. I worked very hard. We had a massive credit load for my laser program. I mean, full-time was considered 12 credits, and this was 29 credits per semester. So it was, it was living my education. And after that, I, I.

[22:19] And I was living at home during that entire time with this abusive family of mine. And at that point, I had a stepfather who was equally abusive, a military 26-year veteran who at least taught me how to give myself some limitations, but still just verbally and physically abusive. Um so i i after that i went out into the world and since lasers was in demand um i went and worked for a military contractor um on in a enormous town on the west coast of my country.

[23:06] And I definitely had many experiences in the melting pot there that I and that's when I really started dating and meeting different women and it just felt like I always had this thick mask on for people like I was a salesman for a while for my for my job during college and putting on that mask where you're just positive happy and smiling and giving people it just felt like you're giving like i was giving people everything they wanted to hear and i i would just practice that in order to essentially get what i wanted from women which was sometimes it was sex sometimes it was like i just didn't want to be alone and and just experiencing um different women and their personalities to try and find someone who was compatible with me uh enough to.

[24:02] To, I guess, make me happy might have been a generic term for it, but perhaps at the time I may have been just chasing that emotion like an animal instead of really knowing what I wanted, like what real-time relationships taught me.

Stefan

[24:22] Right, right. And did dating change much in your 20s?

Caller

[24:30] Well, I always had an adventurous streak. So for me, I'd always want to experience something new. So if I had an opportunity to go on a date, I mean, I was a gaming nerd otherwise, so I didn't have fun on my own. So I would use these dating opportunities to go and try something new, like, what is this cool show or experience or theme park or site or even an educational experience or thrill or natural scenery? I would just be such a sponge for so much of it. And that went pretty well. And then when I was about 22, I got in trouble with the law because at that point, drinking had become a part of my life. I still didn't understand anything about dopamine or what the real purpose of it was, or that I was punishing myself.

[25:39] It was just this kind of social drug that I would use, but I would use it to excess until I would black out. And then I went out to a bar with a friend, and since I wasn't driving, I figured I could go ham, as they say. And I blacked out, and then a bouncer decided that he would... I mean, I was running my mouth and insulting people and the bartender, and the bouncer came to remove me from the establishment, and he decided he would do so physically. and the second he touched me um, I ripped half his face off with my bare hands.

Stefan

[26:22] You ripped half his face off? What are you, an orc? That's wild. Like with nails or?

Caller

[26:27] Yeah. Yeah. I don't even remember if I had fingernails, but I do. What I remember is that I spun around on the chair and launched my hand forward in this kind of like clawed palm strike. And my fingers raked from his nostril to his ear wow and i wouldn't and i use the term ripped half his face off i think that's an exaggeration they didn't really show me the damn recorder yeah it was it was brutal is the word barbaric brutal visceral um mayhem was the charge and And by any means, I am not proud of it. Luckily, I think he just had very good medical attention.

[27:21] He was evaluated and treated well. And the medical bills were not so high that I was put away forever. But I spent some time behind bars for that. And that experience really taught me a lot about, I guess, a male societal structure in a cave, how that works when people don't know how to behave most of the time. And that, yeah, it was terrifying, to say the least. I mean, terrifying, visceral.

[28:11] But I paid my dues and paid my fees, and I was on probation for a very, very long time. For five years, I forget. I just remember having to check in. And after i got out i got my first long-term girlfriend um i did my best to keep the uh that terrible side of me and what i'd done at ease and away from her she had been through, her fair share of god-awful childhood abuse and i wanted to comfort her and be there for her and be her rock as she called me and that went decently well um for i mean her her parents became my best friends and we did everything like as a family it was like i had a whole new family it was, So, wonderful.

Stefan

[29:17] And how long did that last for?

Caller

[29:20] Four years.

Stefan

[29:22] Four years, okay. And you guys didn't get married or have kids, is that right?

Caller

[29:28] No, in fact, at the time, I felt like if I were to have children, I would have passed on a curse.

Stefan

[29:35] Right, right.

Caller

[29:37] I avidly was against children. At that point, I was listening to Tom Likas so much that I was fully convinced, but that's just an excuse. I chose not to seek children at that point in my life. And then she said she wanted marriage and children, and then I said, that's not good. And that essentially began the end of that relationship.

Stefan

[30:09] Right.

Caller

[30:11] And then i made the mistake of introducing her to my family which then sabotaged me oh yeah yeah that's cool for sure.

Stefan

[30:22] Okay and how how old were you when you guys um split up.

Caller

[30:29] I was about 26 or 27 at that time okay.

Stefan

[30:35] Got it got it okay.

Caller

[30:38] And with her, I was very, very rarely abusive. It was so seldom that it was mostly maybe an outburst at worst, and it would happen maybe every year if I'd let it. I really wanted her to have a gentler life. Right but sometimes as you've taught me uh being nice is not the way to help people.

Stefan

[31:14] Well i mean nice not at the expense of honest or good right, that's the challenge.

Caller

[31:21] Yeah and do i want to sorry or not oh sorry it does just i find myself these days i have to ask myself do i want this blowback or not.

Stefan

[31:36] What do you mean.

Caller

[31:36] Do i want do i want to tell someone the truth knowing that they're going to have a visceral response right.

Stefan

[31:42] Right right right okay and was it a difficult or tough breakup did it go relatively easily or how did that go.

Caller

[31:54] I'd say it went relatively easily she She was incredibly attached to her abusive mother, and that led her to just go right back to that abusive mother, despite the fact that I, even then, before even knowing your name, had tried to convince her not to be so attached to someone who was responsible for just horrific abuse. Um, but yes, she, she went back to her family, um, within a couple of weeks of, of the sex stopping and, and the non-communication phase.

Stefan

[32:38] Right. Right. Now, how did you first, I mean, Tom Likas is, I guess was fairly obscure back in the day. How did you, did you listen to him live? Because it's been a while since he's been on air. I think he's done some web stuff, but, uh, how did you end up finding him?

Caller

[32:55] While working for the military contractor, one of my bosses would play him over the radio live in the city where he was local.

Stefan

[33:04] Oh, okay.

Caller

[33:06] And from there, it was iTunes where he was available and his library was for a while. And then after that, he did his online thing and I still tuned into that when I could. Boy, that unedited stuff was incredible sometimes. sometimes when you don't have to deal with the FCC, you can definitely speak your mind. And much of that was quite revealing.

Stefan

[33:32] Yeah. Every now and then I remember he used to do these live shows that he had, you know, super spicy. And I was always curious if anyone ever recorded those or anything like that, because that was obviously some different stuff than he was able to do online, on the air. All right.

Caller

[33:51] He would have many of those shows on his website, which had his full library. But I haven't given him much time because, honestly, he doesn't have the UPB that you do.

Stefan

[34:07] Right. When were you last listening to him?

Caller

[34:11] I would say maybe a decade ago at the most. In fact, I'd say at the least, it was probably, yeah, I would say I probably stopped listening to him when I was maybe 30 or 31. So yeah, maybe about eight years.

Stefan

[34:27] Okay, got it. Got it. And what were the pluses and minuses that you got out of what he was doing?

Caller

[34:38] The pluses was just the rationality of a lot of it. He was a numbers guy. Also, the fact that he exposed me to a lot of female behavior that I didn't understand, you know, growing up with a single mother, not understanding that, you know, that women sought resources.

Stefan

[35:01] He's pretty good on hypergamy, for sure, yeah.

Caller

[35:04] Good lord uh yeah but some sometimes he would say things like women are just human toilets i'm like oh like i grew up in a house full of women man i i can't agree with that.

Stefan

[35:18] Right well he found i mean as far as i understand it he had little utility for women's intellect and it seems like he was not particularly drawn to the intellectual side or capabilities of women And so he just wanted to discharge his fluid, so to speak, of which he seemed to have quite a few. So, yeah, I can get where you'd have that.

Caller

[35:39] And when he would have an intelligent woman on the air, it seemed that she would be pretty just submissive to his views, just kind of bending to his will almost at times. Or they would just see eye to eye, and these women would also be like, yep, just keep it physical. What's mine is mine, and what's yours is yours, and there's no point in anything else. And it seems a bit nihilistic when I think about it now.

Stefan

[36:08] Well, I mean, and I think he was into, if I remember rightly, he was into Hispanic women and culture, and that's not always necessarily the most hyper-intellectual culture, so maybe that was something to do with it.

Caller

[36:20] I believe, according to the truth about Ceres, if I recall.

Stefan

[36:27] And wasn't he, yeah, he was married, how many times, four times? Do I have that right?

Caller

[36:33] Two minutes.

Stefan

[36:36] I'm sorry?

Caller

[36:37] I would say too many. He and my stepfather had that in common, having been married, I think, four or five times and still not learned.

Stefan

[36:49] Well, yeah, but he would say, of course, that he's not a marriage expert. He doesn't claim to be.

Caller

[36:54] Right? Yes, sir. He would say that. I'm not a marriage counselor or a therapist. I believe he would say that.

Stefan

[37:02] Hmm. Very interesting. And I'm sorry to just, I'm just having a quick look here to see. Tom Leicke's show, 1994 to 2009, April 2012 to 2018. So, interesting. Yeah, I'm sure that he's, I mean, he must still be doing something, right? I mean, he certainly was quite a chatty guy. Yeah.

Caller

[37:28] It seems hard to imagine that.

Stefan

[37:30] Yeah. He has no children. he says that four women he impregnated all had abortions, he's an atheist though he's reared as a Catholic, married and divorced four times, yeah, yeah for sure.

[37:46] The Impact of Tom Likas

Caller

[37:47] I remember he would say that he would get the woman the abortion and then he would get them a McMuffin.

Stefan

[37:54] Was he the Hail Mary guy?

Caller

[37:57] Yeah, the Hail Mary was one of his you know, do the Hail Mary get on your knees and Tell her that the time's just not right. Yes. Yes, I do believe that was his tactic.

Stefan

[38:10] Right. Okay. So he said the end of his September 25th, 2018, end of his online stream, still some form of podcast behind a paywall because of the freeloaders who never supported his premium Tom paid podcast subscriptions. Okay.

Caller

[38:30] I was unfortunately one. No, I did actually subscribe to his stuff for a while when I was still in the middle of my laser career for a short time.

Stefan

[38:40] Right, right. Okay. All right. Yeah, I was just kind of curious if he's still doing his thing. Oh, it's interesting. American people of Irish descent, American people of Ukrainian Jewish descent. I mean, I'm not a big fan of Wikipedia, of course, right? But just for sort of bare bones facts, it's not too bad. Okay.

Caller

[39:02] What Wikipedia did to you was a travesty in my sympathies.

Stefan

[39:05] For sure. Thank you. All right. So…, mid-late 20s, you break up with the woman because she wants to have kids and I assume also because she's still embedded with destructive family situations, right?

Caller

[39:24] Yeah, and that caused some inner turmoil within me for sure. I mean, I remember just, you know, you get that feeling like someone's just squeezing your heart.

Stefan

[39:32] Well, and you know, you kind of moved pretty hard to get away from some pretty, terrible or bad family members and then to sort of re-engage with that with your girlfriend would be pretty rough right, Oh, sorry. Are you still there?

Caller

[39:58] Yeah, yes.

Stefan

[39:58] Oh, sorry.

Caller

[39:59] Can you hear me?

Stefan

[40:00] Yeah, I think you just cut out there for a sec, but that's fine. Okay.

Caller

[40:05] But yeah, when you're in an intimate relationship with someone, you tell them everything they want to know, you know, so long as you feel safe about it, I suppose.

Stefan

[40:15] Right, right. Okay. And then what happened after this relationship?

Caller

[40:21] Um i was single and and dating and, just different women different experiences uh some of them were very dangerous some of them were very productive some women were drop-dead gorgeous and then and some of them had good careers. Some of them had burdensome, terrible, debt-ridden, bad choices for careers. And then at the time, I had just kind of decided that I really didn't care about myself anymore. So I decided that essentially the route I was going to go was either going to be prison or death. And so I decided to start getting into just terrible behavior when I was at that time. And... Then one day, after one of my cohorts in this kind of crappy behavior, I didn't know this, but he had pointed a gun at his wife that morning and threatened to kill her.

Stefan

[41:46] How old did he get here?

Caller

[41:48] That might have been about 28 or 29. And he had just... He had pointed a gun at his wife, and I was living with my abusive mother, which was causing infinite chaos within me as well. So it's a lot of just turmoil and self-destruction. But yes, he did that. And then as a result, he just called me randomly and said, hey, can I get a ride? And I'm like, well, sure. And so I went and I gave him a ride. And then I got pulled over, and then all of a sudden there was a swarm of what seemed like 30 sheriffs. And they yanked us out of the car and came kicking and screaming off to jail. And I was just let go, was just let to go free. And I was just wondering.

Stefan

[42:36] Oh, so they didn't think that you were like a getaway driver or something, right?

Caller

[42:40] No, because I had no clue. I guess they could tell.

Stefan

[42:46] Right. Okay. Oh, bullet dodged. Right.

Caller

[42:50] Yeah, that could have certainly been the beginning of a terrible cycle.

Stefan

[42:55] Yes, for sure. Especially with your priors, right? Oh, your priors, sorry. Singular.

Caller

[43:00] Well, yes, yes, you are absolutely correct. As usual.

Stefan

[43:04] Right, okay.

Caller

[43:07] So, after that, that very day that night, I went to, there was this bar that was having a karaoke competition. And uh i went to this bar and there um after giving one of the best performances in public of my life because what did you think and, uh i sang am i allowed to say uh titles of songs and everything is that okay yeah yeah i sang a song by fits in the tantrums um that uh um what was the name of the song um, we don't gotta work it out i think was the name of the song something like that anti-beatles.

Stefan

[43:48] Yeah yeah okay.

Caller

[43:49] Uh yeah it was like from the uh not the do-up not the bebop what was that blaxploitation era of music.

Stefan

[43:59] Motown?

Caller

[44:01] Yes, it was very Motown. No guitars, but had saxophones and things in it, and a very talented French singer.

Stefan

[44:08] You were doing the karaoke thing, and then what?

Caller

[44:12] Yeah, to the point where I was jumping and dancing and everything. Without being shit-faced, ironically. After that night, I had gotten this girl's number that night and then and she worked nights at a local uh hotel uh doing auditing and so i but not feeling safe enough to go home for reasons that were obvious uh i called her after that, and uh she and i had sung a duet well as a part of like the warm-ups for the competition, and uh we sang broken by seether and we we really nailed it it was really really pretty and nice and the whole the whole bar erupted in applause and loved it but i don't know if the opinions of drunks are as good as the opinions of people with musical tastes but uh yeah so that night, after the bar closed i went and i hung out with her um as she worked in this hotel and just started talking to her and getting to know her and, and she was on Skype with her sister and I was just getting to know her and just felt safer knowing that I wasn't somewhere where the sheriffs could come and kill me was what I was thinking always a plus.

[45:40] Yeah one of those government thugs are scary.

[45:48] And then, And then we formed a relationship. I was forthright and honest with her about my behavior that I was, despite being back in college and working on furthering my electronics and engineering and electrical engineering education, that I was still engaging in bad behavior, which included drugs and hanging out with various nefarious characters around town.

Stefan

[46:27] Sorry, she was in drugs?

Caller

[46:31] No, that was me.

Stefan

[46:33] That was you, sorry.

Caller

[46:34] Yeah, whereas she had just separated from her husband and was living on the couch of her friend who was a terrible teen smoking um just really kind of a disgusting individual uh or just like had a rape fetish she had kids that had been sexually abused by men that she had chosen like her friend was really just that she was living with was really just terrible and i wanted to get her the hell out of there because she was nice to me are we seeing a better yeah i.

Stefan

[47:13] Guess So, I guess so.

Caller

[47:17] And so we got a place together and tried to make it work. I mean, we started in absolute poverty, just in this trailer park where my vehicle and my home were being, people would attempt to break in at least once a week. Like I was always on edge with the shotgun in hand. I didn't sleep. And the drinking was used to stay calm right it wasn't good right and just, also the same terrible self-destructive behaviors the i'm not worthy mindset, i remember one time i got terribly sick and i i mean she was like do you like do you want me to help you do you want me to help you feel better and i was i would just go into the realm of what It was essentially my office, and I just put a blanket on the floor, and I just laid on there, and I just sat there and just kept coughing up a line and just deteriorating into damn near pneumonia because I just would not accept help.

Stefan

[48:30] Right.

Caller

[48:31] So a lot of self-loathing, in my opinion.

Stefan

[48:36] Right. Yeah, I know. I can certainly see that. I can certainly see that. Okay.

Caller

[48:44] And what sort of.

Stefan

[48:45] Um what sort of drugs were you on.

Caller

[48:50] Um marijuana and alcohol okay got it but it was uh this is during a time when marijuana was getting stronger and people were introducing concentrates into the market um and i was slowly getting a hold of that which was you know just self-deletion and and numbing, absolutely just doing that and then i one day while we were living in this trailer, and all this pain i decided um that's it like i am defooing from my from my family i am i want nothing to do with them i'm going to just get the hell out of here and i went to my baby sister's house and gave my niece a big, tearful hug and said my goodbyes to the one family member that was the most kind. And I disappeared from their lives.

Stefan

[49:52] Right. And how old were you there?

Caller

[49:55] 29.

Stefan

[49:56] Okay, got it. Right. And, sorry, just was there a particular inciting incident that brought about this change, or?

Caller

[50:10] I felt like I, because of what happened with the previous relationship, I did not want to allow that to happen again.

Stefan

[50:16] Right.

Caller

[50:17] So I did not want my current relationship sabotaged by people who, and I said to my mother's face, I said, I think you just don't want me to be happy. And which was of course approached with fogging and oh crap honestly she, my mother was the queen of manipulation.

Stefan

[50:49] Right okay so you did get a sense that whatever was going on your family was not in particular helping right.

Caller

[50:57] Oh yeah it felt like every time i was near my family like i was walking on eggshells and with that feeling like someone's squeezing your heart yeah.

Stefan

[51:11] Yeah for sure for sure and how did your parents lives go overall i assume you know i assume fairly badly but what happened.

Caller

[51:20] Yeah my my father had to go to my knowledge uh he went to live a double life in a nearby, state and he started a new family i don't know how that went all i know is just that my sister went to try and um confront him and talk to him and he would not answer the door if it was him and would not answer letters or phone calls or anything of the sort. So she could not even confirm that it was him there. And honestly, with the rage I feel, I imagine if I were to ever meet him again, I would not be able to control my violence. So I...

Stefan

[52:03] Right. Right. Okay.

[52:12] Family Breakdown

Caller

[52:12] As well as essentially you get to a point where you're you just say well if i wasn't worth it then they're obviously not worth it.

Stefan

[52:21] Right right, right okay.

Caller

[52:28] My mother she deteriorated into a pill addiction and those terrible uh do you know what the most popular gaming type for women is?

Stefan

[52:45] Gaming type? Oh, it's lots.

Caller

[52:49] Match three.

Stefan

[52:51] Match three? Yeah, okay.

Caller

[52:53] It's supposed to be jeweled type games.

Stefan

[52:55] Right, right.

Caller

[52:56] And my mother got addicted to a popular one and started to shell out money non-stop. She was a teacher, so you have this terribly abusive person raising kids in the public sphere. And that of course doesn't sit well with me to this day as well but yes she would just lay on the couch and just play that game on her tablet with her little dog pet fetish and, wouldn't listen to a word i would say about any improvement right right but and and as that addiction manifested her life has essentially resulted in um every man in her life including her family members um my two uncles they're dead and every man in her life otherwise will not have anything to do with her she's quite alone much like your mother oh.

Stefan

[53:57] Yeah yeah for sure for sure, Right. Okay.

[54:06] Recent Life Changes

Stefan

[54:07] All right. So how have things been going since then? I guess the last, I guess we're up to the last sort of seven, six, seven years.

Caller

[54:15] So I've stayed with that woman throughout the years. But after that, I moved to a nearby state, just kind of rushed into and got a job working a night shift in an industrial laser setting. Um pretty cool pretty cool stuff scientifically um but uh of course this was in a state where marijuana was legal so of course me using that as an excuse to keep my addiction as i made more money i went running there and i got into the concentrates and blew, pretty much every dime i made on deleting myself i mean i feel so sorry and i have apologized to to my my still girlfriend for those times um i would just go in the garage and i would just, just get as mess as as as screwed up as possible um pass out and just keep that cycle going, and when i wasn't doing that i was working so it was like i wasn't even there, and uh she was very very lonely during that time.

Stefan

[55:34] Right right okay.

Caller

[55:36] But essentially this was me punishing myself for removing myself from my family um and you know i imagine i remember when you talked about your separation how you had those dreams and how it really felt like part of you was dying oh.

Stefan

[55:57] Yeah for sure.

Caller

[55:57] Yeah that's the best way to put it.

Stefan

[56:01] Right okay all right and, And how have you been dating at all since then? Oh, sorry. I'm not sure if you can hear me again.

Caller

[56:29] Yeah, I can hear you just fine. I'm just concerned that am I losing signal? No, it's fine.

Stefan

[56:37] It's fine. I just couldn't hear you, so.

Caller

[56:40] Okay, yeah, sorry. I have a tendency to mumble and speak low. I will work on my mind.

Stefan

[56:49] No problem. Ever now and then, I just want to remind you.

Caller

[56:55] Yes, after that, the company I worked for made some terrible choices investing in China. China got caught basically falsifying their markets, which killed everything, which they shut down their imports, which was almost the entire market share of the company I worked for. So they laid off over 60% of the company. They laid off my entire shift except for me.

[57:25] And a big surprise for someone who was still trying to separate from their family of origin this felt like I was dying all over again so I went into full self-punishment mode and but then one day my girlfriend came up to me and she said my mom just had a stroke and she's having a cancer scare and I said was your mother kind to you and she said yeah I think so and so i said let's go so i quit the job and we took off to go help her mother and then when i went to that house where her mother was living with with her her mother was living with uh my girlfriend's sister and my girlfriend's sister's three kids and then there was just this kind of like random, junky homeless guy living on the couch at the same time, and the house was just a mess and stinky and poverty and I was just like holy crap I gotta do something about this and poured every dime I had actually into helping those people there goes the pattern again.

[58:37] And made sure that those kids had food and that the mother was less stressed as she recovered from her health issues. And I got a job working nuclear security in that area, essentially doing electrical work.

[59:02] Realizations and Responsibilities

Caller

[59:03] And after a while, I started to notice that this family isn't so great. This family isn't very nice. I started to see behaviors like the sister would start sleeping around with random really shady guys who would threaten people with guns and that the kids were ignored as their mother would just self-annihilate through Ambien. And so the kids were just neglected to no end. And with no father, they would come to me and I would comfort them as best I could. But at the time, no experience, no understanding, not even a drive to become a father.

Stefan

[59:47] Hmm.

Caller

[59:49] What empathy i had i would use to try and comfort them as they suffered as i knew what it was like to suffer without a father and with a mother who was incredibly abusive and uh luckily they had some some christianity and religion in their lives um they they had their church and they attended regularly thanks to their grandmother and uh and one of them um stuck with it and i think from what i hear he's doing pretty well and the other two children one's pursuing her career pretty hard and the other one uh is now uh essentially into in a crime but it's somewhat understandable that result because he was it was only revealed to him that he was adopted when he was about 10 and feeling a massive betrayal from his mother he then went into negative behaviors um to make sure that uh because you know um as you and i know when you don't trust when you feel like no adults can be trusted, and you feel no obligation to a society that, mistreated you or doesn't care about you.

Stefan

[1:01:12] Oh yeah, totally. Totally. Right. Right. Sorry, go ahead.

Caller

[1:01:21] So I left that family and my girlfriend came with me and we from there went all the way to the other side of the country to the opposite coast, and there we um.

[1:01:42] Struggles and Escapes

Caller

[1:01:43] I still struggled with drugs and alcohol but i was i decided to work hard i went ahead in my car drove for three days straight to make it to a job on time to start when they needed me, and uh spent a month homeless living out of the car just so that i could make sure that uh i i had uh established like a good um foundation for my girlfriend to follow and move.

[1:02:17] And and so that things would just be better and that's what i did and uh and in this place i worked hard um really fit in well with the community it was a very um, uh exclusive community it was a it was a state where if you're not from there they just really don't like you and uh but i i moved in and and worked hard and played nice as best i could i suppose right i became a real asset in that job essentially becoming i mean they didn't have anybody even their engineers were incredibly inept when it came to, the work that I did so I became quite an asset and really got good results that they desperately needed, I mean, I made them millions for sure.

[1:03:18] Relationship Dynamics

Stefan

[1:03:18] Okay. And what happened with your relationship with this woman?

Caller

[1:03:24] She followed me the whole way. She just followed me and stuck with me. She worked as well. She went from one company to another, learning different skills. But she always seemed like she was kind of aimless and a bit miserable with it all. And she got into one job where it was just so abusive. And I said, you know, I just kept asking, you know, those important questions like, this is what you've spent your time doing, what is worth it to you. And then one day she was giving me a massage on my neck because I had a massive adhesion in it. And she worked it out in no time. And I said, have you ever considered massage therapy? And she said, well, my aunt does it. And I've been told I'm good at it. And I said, you have talent because it wasn't refined at all. She just could do it. And so we got her into a school, a very good school for learning massage therapy, and then she graduated. She had 99.9%.

Stefan

[1:04:26] Top class.

Caller

[1:04:29] Yeah, it's incredible. And then she became a massage therapist. And so she had, so she ended up working for a few companies getting experience and now she has her own practice and I've invested and she's invested and I'm very happy for that progress.

Stefan

[1:04:48] Excellent. Excellent. All right. And have you ever done any kind of, sorry, and that relationship is still chugging along. Is that right?

Caller

[1:04:56] It is.

Stefan

[1:04:57] All right. And you don't have to give me her exact age. Is kids still on the table, or is that something that's gone in the rear view?

Caller

[1:05:10] I would say it's pretty much in the rear view. We've discussed adoption as an option. I've studied peaceful parenting. I was terrified of that book, by the way, for reasons you can guess. But I mustered up the courage and read it.

[1:05:26] Parenting Aspirations

Caller

[1:05:27] I'm up to chapter eight now, and I'm continuing through it. Thank you for writing it and going through that. Um but uh yes she she uh but she doesn't seem to want children uh still and uh and we have tried and and failed uh she has a medical condition that prevents pregnancy oh.

Stefan

[1:05:53] Gosh okay i'm sorry to hear that.

Caller

[1:05:55] Yeah yeah but, it's it's tragic but it's not, I still can't imagine anybody else waiting for me when I come home.

Stefan

[1:06:13] Yeah, yeah, I get that. That's an honorable thing. I mean, if you would rather have the woman than the kids, that speaks well to your devotion, right?

Caller

[1:06:24] Yes, but also the adoption is an option. I'm still young enough to where I could do that. But she definitely still needs to study peaceful parenting and get that ingrained. Otherwise, her family's abuses may be repeated, and I'm not going to allow that.

Stefan

[1:06:48] And is she still in contact with this bad family?

Caller

[1:06:53] No. We have tried. We actually, I then, from that location, I went all the way to the opposite coast after having a hell of an experience.

[1:07:05] Seeking Therapy

Caller

[1:07:05] Uh uh i i i covid made people kind of nuts and i received death threats at work and just decided it wasn't worth it through my hands in the air and then spent a year working on myself physically and mentally but it was mentally in an unhealthy way i mean um the the therapist i had was a government therapist and as a result there was just never any effort it was more so like she Usually you just listen to me complain and never had any real input or encouragement or feedback. And then physically I got into boxing and learned a martial art so that I could prevent, so that I could feel more secure and at ease and less scared all the time. Especially after receiving death threats in my career and so i sorry remind.

Stefan

[1:08:00] Me why you got death threats in your career.

Caller

[1:08:02] Uh people were really losing it during covid and so i would i had a co-worker who was uh really lazy and would just sit there and play on his phone instead of getting anything done and one day and i would frequently say hey man like i could get some stuff done i need this you know i need this like say a part or an assembly or or some work done so that i can do my part because i need you to finish you know the previous part and one day he just blew up and said he was going to effing kill me and my whole family and all this other stuff and i'm just like okay, and then uh of course it was so loud the boss heard it and then the boss uh took it to hr instead of dealing with it appropriately and as and then they didn't do anything so i said wow, my life means nothing to this company i'm out.

Stefan

[1:08:58] Well that's uh that's no fun that's no fun yeah it's funny how uh everybody's sensitive to everything except the stuff that really counts right, Sorry, you're a little quiet again?

Caller

[1:09:13] Yeah, that's very true. Yes, sir.

Stefan

[1:09:15] Okay. All right. So life sounds like it's settled down into a fairly decent routine and pattern, right? You've got your job, your career, and your girlfriend has her job, her career, and maybe you'll adopt, but you have that option. So it sounds like you've landed in a fairly decent place overall.

Caller

[1:09:36] Yeah, considering the beginning and some of the ups and downs, I've got to say it's a miracle that I'm here and that I didn't self-destruct or follow the path laid before me by my ACE score, I guess.

Stefan

[1:09:59] Yeah for sure for sure well congratulations that is uh very good and you're relatively content in your career obviously sounds like you're happy in your relationship so that's all very nice right.

[1:10:08] Career Changes

Caller

[1:10:09] Well yes except for the uh the career part i i avoided well no i i grew tired of lasers and the tech industry started to become more and more, woke white males or not encouraged if not flat out excluded and ostracized in many cases, from working in it and so i i got out of that and now i'm pursuing learning a much more in-demand skill that is practical and that is as much as I loathe, the state it is taxes and tax preparation so, that I'm pursuing that I'm pursuing that in full force so what.

Stefan

[1:11:08] Do you think with the turning points that helped you to get to a place I suppose that was not exactly predicted by your origin story. I mean, your origin story sounds like a villain origin story, but you were able to get to a pretty good place. I mean, minus, of course, you know, that things seem to be, at least for now, not repairable with your sister. But, you know, you guys are still relatively young. And so what would you say if you sort of give advice to other people? What were the major decisions that you made that you think ended up with you being in a much better place than, I mean, most people would expect?

[1:11:45] Major Decisions

Caller

[1:11:46] Well, really, it was learning, learning a lot, especially you helped me a lot with your books. The Art of the Argument allowed me to curb the violence and the emotional lack of control and give it purpose and allowed me to use my intelligence to really convince others through arguments rather than bullying or belittling.

[1:12:17] Uh, passive aggressive behaviors as well as, um, like say real-time relationships. I mean, that was, that was a lifesaver, just learning just the definition of love through that. I mean, my whole life I was like, I can't feel this. What is this? It feels so banal and spartan and empty. And it was just uh just just kind of gave me like oh that's why it is the way it is okay so now i have something to seek and i know what i like and and why i do and and that that definition gave me some some um motivation really i mean there are there are so many people out there that, don't know what love is there there are men who have been hurt who really, just kind of black pill it so terribly and it's like if you just knew the truth you'd know what the goal is and, I mean some of your other books like the present and the future oh my god the present gave us you know a scope into some of those things like the daycare thing oh my goodness isn't that the truth And then, and the future just, it's like, really, this is what people would behave like if they weren't burdened by terrible childhoods?

Stefan

[1:13:40] Right, right.

Caller

[1:13:41] And that's what motivated me to do whatever I could. To stop that behavior and others i mean i can't control others i believe in free will just as much as you do but the just just to give them the arguments and and without you know hating them for why they behave the way they did and just explaining to them the best i could and and trying to give them a rational approach and and some introspection into themselves so that they and you know not reproduce the cycle that was that was very good and seeing the results of that a few times was rewarding in and of itself.

[1:14:23] And uh and and uh essential philosophy was good gave me a baseline i didn't know much you know is my hand my hand you know things like that, and and a lot of the history and i mean that learning is, is invaluable um but there was one thing you said that really turned me around, because there was all this self-punishment all this self-loathing all this self-deletion you know i'm not allowed to exist i'm i don't deserve it all this blame and shame that really doesn't have a place and it was when you said that those of us who have been abused owe it to our inner child.

Stefan

[1:15:13] Yes ain't that the truth ain't that the truth, Right. Right. That is great. Em, is there anything that you wanted to mention in terms of how you feel loved? Because you said at the beginning you didn't feel in particular loved. But you feel loved by your girlfriend is that right.

[1:15:53] Finding Love

Caller

[1:15:53] I mean she's definitely affectionate, um i'd say she's she shows signs of virtue and does some virtuous things she shows compassion and care for me um and she's learning which shows you know curiosity and open-mindedness and if you can find someone who's genuine and has that curiosity, especially about you that that's just a wonderful thing to have in your life right.

Stefan

[1:16:27] Right, very nice all right and is there anything that i really do appreciate your um your time and your thoughts. Is there anything that I can help you with before the end of the conversation? Anything in particular that is still a bit of a yearning burning for you that you think philosophy could help sort out for you?

Caller

[1:16:55] I would say, I mean, I'm 39, and in the midst of all this, there have been multiple suicidalities, whether they were direct attempts or just destructive behaviors. Years by the time you're 39 you know whether you're going to be successful or not and that can lead to suicidal thoughts and and suicidalities knowing that you could have done better to create a larger influence is the solution to that just do what you can well.

Stefan

[1:17:39] When was the last time you had suicidal thoughts?

Caller

[1:17:43] This morning.

Stefan

[1:17:44] Oh my. Okay. Sorry. I, cause I thought things were doing fairly well.

Caller

[1:17:50] Yeah. Well, I'm not sure. All I know is I was very exhausted. I should not laugh. That laugh is not right.

Stefan

[1:18:02] Sorry. I mean, I, I, yeah, I thought you were doing fairly well cause you said things were worse a couple of years ago. So tell me what your thoughts were this morning.

Caller

[1:18:10] I was just very exhausted i had been up most of the night studying for this uh tax preparation job and to meet a deadline and i was just very exhausted really and felt like i was just giving my all and that there wasn't much juice left in the tank and that It would just be better to end it. And when I put my thoughts on trial, did some Socratic thinking and deduced my way out of it, but the thoughts still just kind of leapt up.

Stefan

[1:18:53] And what were the thoughts.

Caller

[1:18:54] Uh the thought was just i'm exhausted i don't have the energy to keep doing this i'm too damn old doing.

Stefan

[1:19:06] What do you mean like the.

Caller

[1:19:07] Studying and stuff uh yeah between studying trying i've been focusing on being healthy and making my mind healthier using various techniques and supplements, recommended by like Huberman and, like I read some of the books you recommended like In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts. So some Gabor Mate, just understanding there as far as the addiction goes. And then just my dopamine may have been low i have to i have to understand that as much as i have abused my dopamine i i just was tired and i i, So I didn't want to try anymore.

Stefan

[1:20:10] And how often do you get these kinds of thoughts?

Caller

[1:20:15] Frequently.

Stefan

[1:20:16] All right. You know, that doesn't help me very much, right? Frequently might be different for different people.

Caller

[1:20:23] I would say every day if I'm not taking care of myself properly. And by that i mean eating well sleeping well right right and exercising to get those endorphins to kill the pain properly i mean when you have a high ace score your dopamine is naturally low so endorphins are a must in my opinion right.

Stefan

[1:20:49] Right okay and have.

Caller

[1:20:52] They have.

Stefan

[1:20:52] These thoughts been getting better or worse or staying about the same over the last couple of years.

Caller

[1:20:59] They've been getting better they've been getting better and that is because i stopped with the drinking and the drugs and i stopped with the um eating poorly the poor sleep i stopped with the escapism through the video games i started to do multiple brain exercises whether it was something like there's a japanese um professor named kawashima who does brain training, um which is it's actually fascinating i wonder what your opinion would be on it honestly but things like that that keep my brain just whirling and occupied until i'm so tired that i need a nap or i'll go and do yoga nidra um to get in that restful period i know you like to listen to music on headphones and that that gives you your, your rest. As well as music can give you a more positive, it actually increases mood. That's one example. I may be fogging. Did I forget your question?

Stefan

[1:22:12] Well, no, you're saying that things are better in a lot of ways, right? That the frequency is beginning to, it's diminishing to some degree, the frequency of self-destructive thoughts, right?

Caller

[1:22:24] Right it used to be constant even just a year ago it was it was terrible um there were times when it was just called i'm just going to spend all my money and then starve to death sorry how.

Stefan

[1:22:38] Long have you been together with your current girlfriend.

Caller

[1:22:41] About 10 years about 10 years and she's.

Stefan

[1:22:44] Aware of these thoughts is that right.

Caller

[1:22:46] Yes i i am very open when i think out loud and sometimes she even tells me you have too many thoughts.

Stefan

[1:22:54] Hmm. All right.

Caller

[1:22:56] But with a high IQ, that's a bit of a side effect.

Stefan

[1:23:00] Yes. Not a huge amount that we can do about that. Okay. So what's your theory as to why? Sorry, when were you last in contact with like really nasty, toxic people, I guess, including your family of origin?

Caller

[1:23:16] Probably when I first moved to this area that I'm in now, I, um, my girlfriend has a brother, um, and this was going to be the last attempt at trying to get along with any family before fully defooing and then it turned. And then, yeah, this, uh, I've worked at a gas station with.

Stefan

[1:23:41] Sorry, can I just get a timeframe here?

Caller

[1:23:44] Yes. Yes. Uh, this was, um, roughly about a year and a half ago.

Stefan

[1:23:48] Okay. So my understanding was sort of in your, about 10 years ago, you kind of gave up on your family and it's not a criticism at all. I'm just, what did I misunderstand about the sequence? Because if you're still in contact with some members until a year and a half ago, that could have an effect, right?

Caller

[1:24:05] Right. This is my girlfriend's family. Since my family was a complete and utter failure, I made attempts to find members of her family where maybe I could find somebody who had some morality.

Stefan

[1:24:19] Okay so this was his your brother-in-law and and so on right yes okay got it and what was this what's the status of that now.

Caller

[1:24:28] It turns out that he sexually abused my girlfriend when they were kids. Although he was a teenager at the time, he sexually abused both of his sisters. So I'm not going to tolerate a child rapist. And I have actually convinced and made the points. And my girlfriend is now, she wants nothing to do with them because the family did.

[1:24:58] Uncovering Family Secrets

Stefan

[1:24:59] Sorry, you just got kind of tinny?

Caller

[1:25:01] Sorry, I'm not sure what causes the tinniness, but I convinced my girlfriend to remove herself from that family. I mean, it was some terrible, disgusting signs of the sexual abuse of a child rapist. Honestly, he was a child rapist.

Stefan

[1:25:22] Sorry, when did you find out about his behavior?

Caller

[1:25:27] I actually found out about it before we moved here, but because he had apologized to the people, the family members he abused in front of the whole family in the past, I figured there was a chance at reform. But uh after meeting him and his family uh holy cow nope this behavior continues and this guy was bad news and i i just it was just made clear that basically the whole family was um lying and continuing that lie and uh making it to seem like this terrible abuse never happened and i you know that doesn't sit well when you're a moral person who funds people accountable for their actions sorry.

Stefan

[1:26:18] So when did you find out that your sister had sorry when did you find out that your girlfriend had been assaulted by her brother in this way when she was a kid.

Caller

[1:26:27] Uh sometime during the relationship maybe five years ago or so now was she aware.

Stefan

[1:26:35] Of it before but kept it quiet or or how did you i'm not saying you you know you can't magically divine these things but how was it that you didn't know was she aware of it but didn't tell you or she had some sort of recovered memory or how did that work.

Caller

[1:26:49] She had symptoms from it um like i would be like i would check on her when she was sleeping and as i was standing over her in the bed just checking to see how she was sleeping and just real quick um she would wake up in a terrible start and i would David and I asked her about it and she said that her brother would do just that, like kind of lured over her while she was in bed and then force her to do sexual favors. And I wasn't about to.

Stefan

[1:27:21] Okay, sorry. I'm probably not making my question clear. So you said you found out about five years into the relationship with your girlfriend.

Caller

[1:27:27] Right? Right.

Stefan

[1:27:29] So why did it take so long to find out?

Caller

[1:27:33] Um, because honestly, I didn't know to ask, uh, I didn't tell you.

Stefan

[1:27:39] Right? Wouldn't she tell me that would be pretty relevant information, wouldn't it?

Caller

[1:27:43] Yeah, you, you would absolutely think, um, honestly, I don't know.

Stefan

[1:27:47] How are you supposed to have a relationship with her brother if you don't know that he assaulted her in this way? I mean, you end up with a relationship that's kind of repulsive to you, right? But with, because you don't know the facts.

Caller

[1:27:58] Right.

Stefan

[1:27:59] Because I assume she brought you around her brother, right?

Caller

[1:28:04] Yeah, the behavior just wasn't explained to me. I couldn't define it. Sorry, I don't know.

Stefan

[1:28:11] What do you mean? The behavior wasn't explained to you. So she didn't.

Caller

[1:28:14] Yeah, right. Right. So, right. She did not tell me.

Stefan

[1:28:17] Okay.

Caller

[1:28:17] And why did she tell you? That's a good question. Maybe she was trying to impress me. Well, I can only make assumptions at this point.

Stefan

[1:28:27] I've known it for 10 years, right? They're more than assumptions, right?

Caller

[1:28:30] Right. So I would say she was possibly afraid that I would find out or that I would judge or that I would see it as she did experience a lot of blame and shame. Perhaps she would self-destruct because of my reaction, perhaps, or that I would run away in disgust or something. That's what comes to mind. But I have emphasized that that is not the case and that she was not responsible because she was a child. We don't choose when we're kids.

Stefan

[1:29:08] I mean, so she finally told you after she woke up with a startled response. Is that right?

Caller

[1:29:16] Right.

Stefan

[1:29:18] And that hadn't happened before in your relationship, right?

Caller

[1:29:23] No.

Stefan

[1:29:25] Okay, got it. Got it. All right. So, I think that's fairly, I mean, look, I understand, and of course, I have a lot of sympathy for your girlfriend, but it's not particularly great behavior to withhold essential information, particularly of this kind of sexual abuse kind, because knowing this information gives you a better chance to figure out, I mean, if she told you early on, right? It would have given you a better chance to figure out whether you did or did not want to continue in the relationship. Has she taken any therapy for this history?

Caller

[1:30:05] No, and we have struggled to find a good therapist. I have come across a few earlier in our relationship, but after that government therapist, I have certainly tried. And the best thing we have in this area is it actually comes up blank when we try and search for a therapist. And we have, I mean, I've, I've looked at the, there's an app, the better help app, but that's about the best I've found so far, but I want, I want to do, I'm doing, I'm doing more. I have offered more therapy, like just, I want to get her the help. I want her to digest this and process this and value herself more.

Stefan

[1:30:53] Sure. Sure.

Caller

[1:30:54] Of course.

Stefan

[1:30:54] Yeah, I mean, the reason is that if a woman has had this kind of abuse in the past, then the reason it would be important to know is, A, you can decide whether you want to continue with the relationship, because that's quite a lot to take on, right? And the second thing, of course, is with regards to sexuality, you would then have sort of extra special considerations regarding sexual behavior to make sure that she wasn't triggered, if that makes sense.

Caller

[1:31:23] Absolutely i understand like for example how if someone's a victim of rape sometimes certain smells can trigger that like i i understand um yes and fortunately we have um worked through that just fine we have a very healthy sex life.

Stefan

[1:31:42] Okay all right and did you what was your feeling when when she told you after half a decade what was your uh feeling about about i mean not just that she told you of course i mean i'm sure we we certainly have sympathy but about what she didn't tell you which was that this had happened for like half a decade or and i assume it happened on multiple occasions.

Caller

[1:32:06] It felt like my shoulders dropped. I would say it felt cold. It felt cold, like numb. Like for some reason, I wasn't important enough to tell this information for some reason. But looking back on it with my behavior up to that point, I can't say that I was the most sympathetic seeming fellow.

[1:32:37] Emotional Turmoil

Caller

[1:32:38] And what I felt more than anything at that point was revulsion, disgust towards her family and her brother, and a desire to protect.

Stefan

[1:32:53] And then you continued to see for another, I guess, three, three and a half years, if I understand this rightly, because the brother had apologized? Or do I have that right? Something like that?

Caller

[1:33:03] Right, right. He had apologized in front of the entire immediate family for his behavior. He had also kind of ostracized himself while the family was moving around. He just stayed in one of the towns because he was 18 and was an adult. Then he got with this woman who, oh man, there's these signs that someone's a chomo.

Stefan

[1:33:31] No, I'm a bit done with, like, dysfunctional shit in this convo. I mean, I have sympathy for you, of course, right? But I don't want to hear about some guy who was a child rapist. And, like, I'm done with that part. Okay, so where do you think that the suicidality comes from?

Caller

[1:33:52] Well, there's that sense of worthlessness and self-punishment and things.

Stefan

[1:33:59] No, no, that's just another way of saying it, right? But what do you think the source is, rather than what are some synonyms for it?

Caller

[1:34:08] The fact that my parents tried to murder me?

Stefan

[1:34:14] Well, that wouldn't mean that you want to die. That might actually give you a greater thirst for life. That's not causal, right?

Caller

[1:34:22] Right. Where the master of deduction might help me out, because when I'm thinking about this, what comes to mind seems to be a bunch of hoggy excuses for the behavior.

Stefan

[1:34:41] Right. I mean, there has to be something where, if you have people in your life who want you dead, right, and with regards to how we evolved with these levels of abuse, or how society has dealt with these kinds of abusers. So do you guys have any sort of Northern European or British background?

Caller

[1:35:07] Yes.

Stefan

[1:35:08] Okay. So let's just talk about England in particular. So in England, for about 400 years, the sort of top 1% or 2% of sociopaths were killed, which is one of the reasons why Britain became a kind of icily polite society, sometimes a little over-conformist, but the people who were real chaos agents and violent, well, I mean, obviously, they weren't just killed. Sometimes they were sent to Australia. Now, of course, it's not like everyone who was killed or sent to Australia was justly convicted and was a monster, but there was this sort of weeding out.

[1:35:42] The Impact of Abuse

Stefan

[1:35:42] And what that generally meant was the people who didn't care if their kids told about their abuses and violence, those people who didn't care that much didn't survive.

[1:35:58] The people who survived this giant half a millennia culling the people who survived were the people who said to the kids if you tell i'll kill you right right does that make sense i mean it's how the mafia survives the mafia like if some guy gets caught by the cops then And if he squeals, then his life is dirt, maybe his family's life is dirt. But if he, a murder, if he does his code of silence stuff, then he'll have a welcome when he comes out of prison, his family will be taken care of, right? So there's a carrot and a stick, right? No criminal gang can survive if people squeal, right?

Caller

[1:36:48] Right. Rats get eliminated.

Stefan

[1:36:50] Right. So, who wants you dead since you're telling?

Caller

[1:37:01] My parents. Yeah, the criminals.

Stefan

[1:37:03] I mean, the literal criminals, right?

Caller

[1:37:06] Right. I think you talked about this in real-time relationships. Yeah. Yes.

Stefan

[1:37:12] So, you didn't come from a family. You came from a crime family.

Caller

[1:37:18] Yes, I did.

Stefan

[1:37:19] Right. So if you came from a crime family, then you were trained from the ground up. You were trained from day one that if you talk, we'll kill you. Right? And you're talking.

Caller

[1:37:36] Yes.

Stefan

[1:37:37] So that's where the death impulse is coming from.

Caller

[1:37:42] Okay. So it's like a lot of these people who they start talking about their terrible childhood experiences and abuses, and all of a sudden they die.

Stefan

[1:37:56] It's not uncommon. And, you know, there has to be a certain fuck the criminal family element to it. Fuck the criminal family. You're out of their power. You can talk and that will heal. But, again, I'm not saying this is the only thing, but if I were to look at the first major thing, that you are, you had passed upon you a death sentence for violating the code of silence.

Caller

[1:38:22] Yes.

Stefan

[1:38:23] I mean, your first memory is your father instructing you to murder your mother.

Caller

[1:38:30] Yes.

Stefan

[1:38:31] And so, of course, if your father is willing to murder your mother, you wouldn't even be a snack to him, right?

Caller

[1:38:39] Right.

Stefan

[1:38:40] So, you talk, you fucking die. You talk, you die. And this is how the abuses within families are maintained. You talk, you die. And I'm sure it was the same with your girlfriend's family. She hated the way that her brother preyed upon her, and she probably fantasized, and maybe even still does. It would not surprise me at all. Neither would I blame her. She probably fantasized about killing him. So this level of monstrous predation and brutality is a crime syndicate. You squeal, you die. right snitches get stitches and end up in ditches right yes you talk you die you talk you die you talk you die it's the ultimate anti-free speech right so right so you are not in accordance with the crime gang and so the crime gang wants you dead.

Caller

[1:39:45] Yeah absolutely and i feel that uh that kind of fear i mean i i there's paranoia.

Stefan

[1:39:52] No, it's not paranoia. Sorry to interrupt. But you were talking about how you went into boxing because you feel frightened all the time. Well, that's because you feel hunted by your family.

Caller

[1:40:02] Yes, I've been on the run.

Stefan

[1:40:04] Now, if you are in a crime gang and you escape them and they're hunting you down and you have a family, what is the one sure way you can, what's the one sure method or the one sure thing you can do to ensure your family remains safe?

Caller

[1:40:26] Fight or flight.

Stefan

[1:40:27] Well no they're closing in right you you're pretty certain they're going to catch you right maybe they're surrounded the building what's the one thing you can do, to keep your family safe yeah.

Caller

[1:40:42] Conform or submit go silent go limp um.

Stefan

[1:40:45] Nope or using no no no so if if they're hunting you down and let's say if they say if we don't get you we're going to take out your family right like sort of some real hard-ass criminal gang right right so or what if they switch from you and they say fine okay we don't know where you are but we sure as shit know where your family is what are they going to do they target your family and then what's the only thing you can do to keep your family safe.

Caller

[1:41:10] Give myself up.

Stefan

[1:41:15] No kill yourself, i mean you don't want to give yourself up because you don't want to be tortured for a week right But if you kill yourself, then you keep your family safe. Because once you're dead, you can't talk, and they'll most likely leave your family alone. Unless they genuinely believe that you gave massive documents to the family or the family's going to the cops tomorrow or whatever, right? But for the most part, if the bad guys are closing in, self-destruction is your biggest chance of keeping your family safe, if that makes sense. This is why love cannot cure suicidal impulses.

[1:42:08] Confronting the Past

Stefan

[1:42:08] Because the more you love, the more you're afraid that they're going to get your family.

Caller

[1:42:18] So is the solution confrontation or is it to preach it from the mountaintops, like write a book kind of a thing?

Stefan

[1:42:28] Well, I don't know what the solution is, but your parents can't do anything to you now, right?

Caller

[1:42:36] Yes.

Stefan

[1:42:39] So you've informed, so to speak, on the criminals, the criminals are all gone. So this is just an old habit.

Caller

[1:42:46] Oh, yeah.

Stefan

[1:42:48] Right? So you're free, you are loved, and the criminals can't do anything to you now. Is that fair to say?

Caller

[1:42:58] Yes.

Stefan

[1:42:59] Right.

Caller

[1:42:59] And if we just look at the number of nights where I've woken up the next morning safe and sound, it's, we just look at the numbers and we know that the chances of anything happening again are practically non-existent.

Stefan

[1:43:14] Well, and you have, uh, have done a lot to get your life into a better place, but I think recognizing that you don't have a family, you have a crime family and that the code of silence is always hanging over you and that we're not, we, you and I and nobody on the planet, we are not designed. We did not evolve. to.

[1:43:40] Get away from these families. There was no chance to do it in the past. I mean, you grew up in, I don't know, Sicily in the, you know, 15th century, you couldn't get away. So we're not designed, our brains have not designed or are not designed to be empirical in the here and now, because for almost all of our evolution, it was Groundhog Day of, corruption and violence. Every day, every day, same old, same old, same old, same old. i mean this is what i was talking about when i was touring australia that the aborigine culture has not changed really in 40 000 years so they've not evolved to grow change now we're just on the we're just on the edge of beginning to do that where we can grow and change and evolve in other words we can have a life that's fundamentally different from how we were raised but that sure as shit is not how we evolved. The brain wasn't like, hey, I wonder if next year is going to be completely different from last year.

Caller

[1:44:45] That's right. UPB, the future, peaceful parents.

Stefan

[1:44:49] Well, just these kinds of conversations, the freedom to move, the freedom to survive economically, to not be a slave or a serf or something like that, right? And it wasn't like even the aristocracy or the wealthy were very free themselves. So, we are not designed for these kinds of changes and this kind of freedom. Now, we are just starting that evolutionary process of, holy shit, I can have a different life than the people who came before me? And you can now be judged on your own merits rather than being judged by your family. Because if you grew up in a society where you guys were like just the bad seeds in town, then you would be considered the bad seed and you'd be ostracized and rejected and you wouldn't have an upper middle class income and you wouldn't be able to move away to a peaceful neighborhood, like none of that shit would have happened. For all of our evolution, we just had to copy paste the same shit sandwich day after day after day.

Caller

[1:45:46] Delicious.

Stefan

[1:45:47] So, without significant recognition of these changes, I assume that the speak and die algorithm is just looping in your head.

Caller

[1:46:00] Yeah, it's pretty hardwired.

Stefan

[1:46:03] Well, it's hardwired, but susceptible to change.

Caller

[1:46:07] Right. Right. If you're willing to learn, it can make its way from your prefrontal cortex into the rest of it.

Stefan

[1:46:16] Well and i think it's about getting angry right right because anger anger is like you're in the sort of flight mechanism and the flight mechanism is exhausting because you just you burn out your adrenals you just run out of dopamine right or you run out sorry you run out of cortisol or whatever right so this sort of fight thing and it's just in your head right right right but It's nice.

Caller

[1:46:43] So powerful.

Stefan

[1:46:43] Fuck the crime family. Fuck the crime family. They're deep in the rear view. You got off the desert island, onto the city. You don't have to live on fucking coconuts anymore.

Caller

[1:46:56] Right. And I owe it to that kid.

Stefan

[1:46:59] Yes. You are loved. You are, by all standards of human history, fantastically wealthy. You have interesting work. You're going to help people with their taxes. Not a dishonorable occupation, in my humble opinion.

Caller

[1:47:18] I've got to know the enemy.

[1:47:20] Breaking Free

Stefan

[1:47:20] Well, good job. But there's no point getting away if they are still running your amygdala.

Caller

[1:47:31] Right. Right. So I need to really put those thoughts on trial when they start and shut them down. Not so much shut them down.

Stefan

[1:47:41] Fuck the criminal family. Fuck the criminal family. We got away.

Caller

[1:47:44] I agree. Right. Stop that sadness habit from, you know, the single mother that wouldn't allow the anger to happen and all that. And absolutely put up a barrier.

Stefan

[1:47:55] So someone or something has to die. Right you were in a life or death situation now fortunately you didn't kill anyone like good good for you good job but someone or something has to die and what has to die is any allegiance to the criminal clan and nothing but sweet prayerful relief that you got the fuck away when you did, right and honor and pride at having escaped this den of vipers that passed itself as a family.

Caller

[1:48:30] Absolutely, and you.

Stefan

[1:48:37] Know it's the analogy that pops into my head is some guy's giving you a pistol saying shoot yourself, shoot yourself, shoot yourself and then you shoot past your rear at him.

Caller

[1:48:47] Behind you right right, yeah that's absolutely that's absolutely what it is And I absolutely have to, you know, get angry at that.

Stefan

[1:49:04] Yeah, you don't have to talk to anyone because they won't listen. You don't have to go back and shake your fist at the crime lords that birthed you. But just be alert and aware in your own head. You got the fuck away. Good for you. Well done. And it is time to break the death sentence that comes from breaking the silence.

Caller

[1:49:25] Yes, you and I are survivors.

Stefan

[1:49:28] Yeah. And what's the point of surviving if you still have the death sentence?

Caller

[1:49:35] Right. I mean, it's like sins of the father. Why?

Stefan

[1:49:42] Well, the sins of the father are death sentence for those who squeal on the crime family, right?

Caller

[1:49:50] Right. Right. But they're not there anymore.

Stefan

[1:49:53] They're not there. And you got away. You got away. I mean, it's like breaking out of prison in order to build yourself a prison doesn't make much sense, right?

Caller

[1:50:05] Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, I imagine that as the thoughts arise and I confront them and get angry and say, no, it's not true.

Stefan

[1:50:19] Yeah, you get those feelings of self-destructions. It's like, fuck off, crime family. I made it, baby. I'm out.

Caller

[1:50:26] That's right.

Stefan

[1:50:27] You can taunt them you can laugh at them right.

Caller

[1:50:31] And no i i even if i tell it seems like it's not something i can discuss with others because.

Stefan

[1:50:41] They all go i mean yes your your girlfriend maybe but she's uh she's also your girlfriend has only recently broken out if she finally got contact a year and a half ago from the guy who raped her as a kid so she's she's a new so she she's not going to be able to help you that much. And most people really won't know what the hell you're talking about. Or rather, they will deep down, but they don't want to admit it because they don't want to admit that another reason why the kids don't talk is because nobody will listen. Or they'll squeal on them back to the parents and risk their lives.

Caller

[1:51:10] Oh, God, the silence. And it's like, if you ever want to find a way to be alone, just tell people, you know, the dark parts of your life if you've had a bad childhood.

Stefan

[1:51:19] Well, and it's not that they're rejecting you, they're just rejecting their own cowardice at not having helped kids in their environment, right?

Caller

[1:51:29] Right. And a lot of them have their own kids that they're continuing that cycle with and they just won't face it. And it's so sad.

Stefan

[1:51:37] I mean, I think your cycle is not what most people are dealing with. Your cycle is pretty unique and ghastly.

Caller

[1:51:45] Yes but uh but I made it god damn it.

Stefan

[1:51:50] You really did and so you know fuck this death shit.

Caller

[1:51:55] I mean it's time to live.

Stefan

[1:51:57] It's time to live yeah and you did get out, You did get out and you should be very proud of getting out. They can't do anything more to you. So enjoy your freedom. Wake up in the morning and be like, ah, thank God I'm not at home.

Caller

[1:52:17] I mean, and, and I'll never have to worry about taking care of elderly parents that hate my guts or.

Stefan

[1:52:26] Oh yeah. I'll just torment and torture you. And oh yeah. Yeah. You don't have to do any of that. Yeah.

Caller

[1:52:32] I'm relieved of that burden and and the search continues for for people who, either grew out out of these experiences or um have uh not experienced them and have uh, i imagine like izzy you're growing up without the burden of such things mm-hmm yeah so i think that would be by the way yeah.

Stefan

[1:53:00] That would be thank you i think that would be my my suggestion is yeah yeah fuck the crime family fuck.

Caller

[1:53:06] Right right and and uh don't let that shit follow me anymore no.

Stefan

[1:53:13] And like fight.

Caller

[1:53:14] Back against it.

Stefan

[1:53:14] Like we got out like i'm not i'm not sleeping with bars on the windows when i already borrowed my way out of a shit concentration camp.

[1:53:23] Moving Forward

Caller

[1:53:24] I mean i didn't learn kickboxing from a marine for nothing i absolutely you know not only can physically but now it's time to create the mental wall yes and prevent this yeah and uh shitty therapists you know god what i'd give for like an older therapist who doesn't give me any excuses who would who would let me change so many good things but uh if i find it i'll get it but yeah In the meantime, I'll continue listening to you for sure, and I'll be working on myself, and I'll continue to hopefully put positive influences and rationality and empiricism into my girlfriend's life, and we can continue to grow and hopefully pass it on to a child that we adopt.

Stefan

[1:54:15] Good. Well, listen, I really do appreciate the call. I have another one coming up in just a few minutes, so I'm going to grab a little food. But listen, I really do appreciate the call. I'm very glad that we got to connect after I sent you the message two and a half years ago. And massive congratulations. Certainly proud to know you and massive congratulations on everything you've been able to achieve, given the absolute shit pit that you were hurled into by fate and circumstances. You've done a fantastic job. I think you should be enormously proud. And well done. well done well done.

Caller

[1:54:44] And right back at you staff i mean you've done you've done more than with with what you started with i mean good lord becoming such a rational man in the midst of all that madness i mean to swim out of just a just a torrent of of mental hell and come out of it and moving in a vector just good for you man like like you have inspired me and your truths have improved my life so much and my mental health and convinced me to make positive choices as well. Like, please, anybody out there, give this man more of your time.

Stefan

[1:55:25] Wow, thanks, man. I appreciate that. And I hope you'll keep me posted about how things are going.

Caller

[1:55:29] I'd be honored. And also, I apologize for not donating in the time I've had. Things are really rough right now, but as things improve, you will have my dedication.

Stefan

[1:55:42] I appreciate that.

Caller

[1:55:44] And you definitely deserve it for your hard work and you and your employees. Thank you so much.

Stefan

[1:55:50] Thanks so much. Take care, brother. All the best. Bye-bye.

Caller

[1:55:53] Take care. Bye.

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