0:05 - Introduction and Background
27:37 - The Skepticism Begins
1:08:25 - Understanding Relationships and Expectations
1:11:23 - The Superficial Charm
1:15:28 - Conclusion and Reflection
In this in-depth conversation, Stefan Molyneux engages with a caller who recounts his experiences with a woman he met while dancing. The interactions unfold as the caller expresses surprise at how he initially perceived her as lovely, yet discovered deeper dysfunctions over time. The caller begins by explaining how he met the woman during a dance event, where they engaged in friendly conversation and found a mutual interest in continuing to dance together. He describes his decision to ask her for her number, noting that, despite some initial suspicions about her past, he did not think much of it at the time.
As their conversations progressed over text, the caller shares that red flags began to appear. He learns that she had once been in a long-term relationship with a man significantly older than her, raising alarms about her past choices. The caller outlines how he started questioning her lifestyle further when she revealed her history of relationships predominantly being casual, often involving “friends with benefits.” The situation escalates when she confesses to having undergone an abortion during a casual relationship, catalyzing a significant shift in the caller’s perception of her.
The dialogue becomes particularly revealing as the caller mentions that during their hike—a follow-up to their initial meeting—she divulged traumatic experiences from her childhood, specifically being molested by her brothers. This shocking revelation adds layers to the understanding of her adult dysfunctions and the caller’s reluctance to fully accept her as a suitable partner. He reflects on the disconnect between their initial connection and the stark realities he learned firsthand, leading to confusion over his own feelings. While he initially found her charming and lively, these qualities became overshadowed by the deeper issues she faced.
Stefan carefully navigates the caller's conflicting emotions, pointing out the nuances of labeling someone as a “lovely” person while simultaneously recognizing their deeper, troubling behaviors. The caller begins to identify their pattern of contradiction between surface-level charm and significant dysfunctions. The conversation delves into the psychological implications of this dissonance, leading to discussions about the importance of skepticism and self-awareness while pursuing romantic interests.
Through inquiry, Stefan prompts the caller to share more about what he believes attracted him to this woman despite realizing the disconnect. The caller acknowledges that he may have been wishful in seeking a romantic experience after a long absence from dating, and admits that he wasn’t fully heeding the warnings from his inner critical voice. He expresses frustration at continuing to interact with women who fail to display curiosity or genuine interest in him as a person.
In navigating the complexities of the inner critic, Stefan encourages the caller to accept and engage with his critical thoughts and feelings rather than viewing them as antagonistic. The conversation draws parallels between the caller’s relationship with his inner critic and his understanding of the woman he dated. Ultimately, Stefan emphasizes that recognizing and harnessing the insights from the inner critic can lead to healthier relationship dynamics and decision-making in the future.
As the conversation draws to a close, the caller reflects on the valuable insights gained from their discussion, particularly the importance of honesty and truth in evaluating both himself and his interactions with others. The reflection leads to a broader understanding of navigating complex social and romantic situations, emphasizing the necessity of being aware of psychological patterns and the need for ongoing self-improvement.
In summary, the conversation offers an insightful exploration of personal responsibility, the influence of childhood trauma on adult relationships, and the critical importance of self-awareness and discernment when seeking meaningful connections with others. It serves as a reminder of the intricacies involved in human relationships and the importance of engaging with both surface and deeper-layered qualities when evaluating potential partners.
[0:00] Hi there, this is Stefan Molyneux. Just wanted to give you a little bit of background for this conversation.
[0:05] There was a live stream where this caller presented a woman that he went on a date with as a lovely person, and then we found out over the course of the live stream that she was, well, I said, real issues and problems and dysfunctions, as you'll sort of hear about in the call. So I wanted to sort of explore why he would introduce a woman with a lot of problems as a lovely person and we agreed to have a call in about it which was great and i think very instructive so that's the background for this call and uh here we go, okay so good to chat i guess this is coming off the live stream so uh tell me tell me about the lady.
[0:47] Yeah. So I, I had met her at a dance on the one Saturday and just by chance, you know, we both needed a partner to dance with dance with. So as is the procedure there, we both put our hand up. We both saw each other, started dancing and I liked dancing with her and she seemed nice. And, don't like always going and ask for a partner so this time i decided hey you know i like dancing with you if you like to keep dancing and i'm.
[1:20] Sorry i'm getting quite a bit of rustling or crinkling from your microphone.
[1:23] Oh sorry uh is this any better i.
[1:27] Just yeah try and hold still while you're talking but go ahead.
[1:29] Okay gotcha and so yeah i asked her if she wanted to keep dancing throughout the night and she agreed uh she was there alone so she sat beside me we chatted throughout the night and kept doing some dancing at the end of the night i decided to ask for a number and yeah with what she shared that evening uh i was a little suspicious but, not overly so and so we started texting throughout the week and and my alarm bell started ringing a bit more with what she was sharing um one of the first ones is the fact that she was dating somebody 25 years older than her for like eight years which is like holy shit sorry she was.
[2:13] Dating someone who was 25 years older than her and she'd been dating him for eight years.
[2:18] Yes she started at 27 and it ended at when she was 35 oh.
[2:25] So it was over.
[2:26] Yes so.
[2:28] She had been dating not she was currently okay.
[2:30] Got it okay yeah had been yes and yeah this is uh ever since i started looking for a girlfriend about two or three months ago this is the first one i actually got her phone number we've been chatting uh i've had a couple of chats on more than a few on dating apps that haven't really led anywhere so i asked this woman she wanted to go on a date the following saturday go for a hike or a dinner or something. And she agreed and with what she was sharing over text, um i i pushed back on it a lot i said that you know this probably isn't something we should be talking about over text and i also kind of suspected that she wasn't going to be the woman for me and besides from the fact that she was 38 and yeah that's saturday i am 29 okay, and that saturday it confirmed pretty much everything i suspected, that she was quite a mess. Between all the men she was dating, most of which were just friends with benefits.
[3:37] Wait, so the men she was currently dating?
[3:40] Well, she just broke up with one. So she was single? No. There was a lot. It was hard for me to keep up with, but she had this revolving door of men at all times, it seemed. And And I suspected that maybe somewhere along the line, she had an abortion or a miscarriage, which was true. She did have an abortion because she was dating this guy who was not really dating. It was a friend with benefits. And she got pregnant from him at the age of 36. And that relationship, of course, didn't work out. And so she got an abortion from that. And yeah, just all across the board. I don't know if you really need too much detail. But yeah, absolute mess. And I was pointing out that a lot of her adult dysfunctions were likely a one-to-one correlation with what she went through as a kid because she had significantly older brothers that were molesting her starting at the age of four.
[4:44] And she told you this when?
[4:47] On the Saturday. and sorry you.
[4:52] Gotta you gotta break it down for me a little bit more okay so you met her on which day.
[4:58] Uh the saturday we went to a dance so the first saturday and the following saturday is when we went on the hike and it was on the hike that she said she was uh molested by her brothers.
[5:11] Okay so on your first date.
[5:15] Yes okay got it first and last yes okay and yeah it was that sunday morning after the hike date that i shared what i did in the live stream and we had our chat there and, yeah, looking back on that live stream when I originally said she was a lovely woman, yeah I could see where you're coming from because I was not familiar with the term superficial charm but that's exactly what it was like she was an absolute mess but she came across as very peppy and fun to be around and she definitely was not.
[6:01] Uh, so she definitely was not fun to be around.
[6:04] No, sorry. Uh, like, uh, underneath, like she was just not a good person and she just came across as friendly and fun, but she really was a mess. Okay.
[6:14] So hang on. So hang on. This is very confusing to me. So we have fun, not fun. We have seemingly together, but a mess. And then you also mentioned she was not a good person. And these are three very different categories and I'm, I'm getting a little dizzy trying to navigate between them all.
[6:29] Right. Okay. um let me clarify that for you so when i met her and we first started chatting even through text i found her fun enjoyable to be around sorry did you not meet her.
[6:41] At the dance.
[6:42] Yes okay.
[6:44] So you met her at the dance and now you throw in the texting which is after right you you got to give me a timeline that makes sense this is jumping all over the place.
[6:50] All right sorry yeah so the only reason you were texting her.
[6:55] Is because you enjoyed her physical presence at the dance right.
[6:58] Yes okay yes and throughout that week um right after i met her on a saturday that's when we were texting, and yeah i was enjoying talking to her getting nowhere bits um seeing a lot of her art which is really fantastic and the more we started texting throughout that week leading up to the following saturday where we went on the hike um that's when i started to realize that, her friendly demeanor was more of a superficial charm and she actually was a, bit of a mess as a person and okay.
[7:44] So again we're the language is confusing to me you said she was.
[7:47] A real mess and a bad.
[7:48] Person now you're saying she's a bit of a mess it's again it's very confusing to follow what you're what you're saying is she was she was she just a bit of a mess.
[7:58] I, no, I take that back. I'm sorry.
[8:00] Okay, so please, just like, you, if you, I'd love to have this conversation, but I feel like I'm just being dragged around randomly by, because I'm listening with great attentiveness, right?
[8:11] Yes.
[8:12] And so, if you said she talked about having been molested by her brothers on the first date you had, and then you said she was a bit of a mess. Well, I mean, I don't know, aren't we all a bit of a mess? I mean, that's not a, it's very confusing, and I'm trying to figure out why. this confusion is happening.
[8:32] Yeah.
[8:32] Because it's similar to the confusion that happened on the live stream where you said, you know, she was a lovely woman and then it turned out she had all these major dysfunctions and so on. So help me understand what's going on in your head, because I don't feel I can go on with the story of what happened with this woman until I know why we're bouncing around like pinballs in the various descriptors in your head. So what do you think's going on in your head because we've got you know not fun not fun, functional not functional good immoral and now a little bit of a bit of a mess so there's all these categories that are floating around and what do you think's going on in your mind that, it's kind of impenetrable from the outside to figure out what you're thinking is, and it's not a criticism I'm just I'm just curious.
[9:21] No I appreciate that what's going on in my head is, a good way to put that it's like, it's a transition of seeing her as what i thought was a friendly person and the more i got to know her the more dysfunctional i realized she was and it wasn't like a, if she said one thing and then it was it switched right over to she was fun to be around to being dysfunctional it was a slow transition throughout the week that i knew her, and on the saturday is when it really started to unravel when we were actually talking in person again um i hope that clarifies it a bit like it.
[10:12] Wasn't okay so sorry let me just interrupt so i think if i understand what's happening correctly you are reporting um you are reporting your timeline of getting to know her and you're jumping into different places in the timeline, yes so when you first met her she seems fun on the saturday of the hike she seemed really dysfunctional earlier in the week maybe you thought she was a bit of a mess so is it the case that let's say you start with sorry if you could stop touching your mic uh that's really kind of distracting yeah so you went from let's say plus five to minus 10 uh well plus 10 to minus 10 you really liked her and then i think after the hike on saturday you saw things as i'm sorry i don't know what that are you touching your mic are you moving around nope.
[11:09] I'm not moving at all.
[11:10] Okay sorry again let's just maybe just check your connection with your mic just make sure it's in solid um so you went from plus 10 to minus 10 over the course of the week and i think what's confusing to me is you keep jumping into various times on the timeline with the plus 10 to the minus 10, yes okay so so that's confusing yeah i think that's confusing from the from the outside if that makes sense yeah.
[11:37] Yeah yeah i'm sorry about that.
[11:39] No no it's not to apologize saturday to the yeah it's totally it's totally fine i just it's it is so so when you said on the live stream she was a lovely person that's your that was your plus 10 when you first met her right yeah exactly Okay. And then thinking she's a little bit messed up was probably at some point in the text, in the texting over the week, right?
[12:04] Yes. And then when we met again in person the following Saturday, I'm like, oh dear, this person's a really dysfunctional.
[12:09] Well, but you met up with her because she was still on the plus side, right?
[12:13] Yeah, exactly.
[12:14] Okay.
[12:14] So then over the.
[12:15] Sorry. Yeah, you had some, so maybe it was like a plus three or a plus four. I mean, I assume it wasn't a negative. Otherwise you wouldn't have met up with her for the hike, right? yes and how long was the hike.
[12:25] Uh four hours and then i went to her place after and the sun started to go down for about an hour.
[12:33] Oh okay so it's a long hike man okay yeah all right so um so you met up with her what was your number sort of plus to minus to plus 10 super enthusiastic minus 10 um don't want to talk to her again what was your number over the course of the week when you decided to meet up with her for a four-hour hike.
[12:57] I'd say uh plus seven.
[13:00] Plus seven okay so there really wasn't much that was going on over the course of the week that gave you much alarm right yeah.
[13:06] Just little bits here and there.
[13:08] Okay got it got it so uh plus seven and then over the course of the hike, where did your number settle?
[13:17] It went right opposite right to like a minus seven.
[13:21] Okay and over what time period of the four hour hike roughly i mean i know it's it's a complicated question but just roughly.
[13:31] Yeah it was a slow drain the whole time like every like 20 minutes it was down a point.
[13:37] Okay got it so then um why did you go to her place.
[13:41] Well i wanted to keep talking with her a little bit more and we finished the hike there didn't really seem to be anywhere else to go to uh yeah like her place so what.
[13:53] Were you at at the what was your number at the end of the hike.
[13:57] At the end of the hike i would say probably a minus five a.
[14:02] Minus five okay so again just just out of curiosity why did you want to continue talking to her if you'd gone from a plus seven, to a minus five which is a spread of 12 over the course of the hike why did you want to uh keep and you know i'm not again it's no criticism i'm just curious why would you want to keep talking to her were you.
[14:23] Hoping to.
[14:24] Recover the number.
[14:25] Yeah exactly i was hoping to take that minus five and bring it back into the positive.
[14:31] Okay and what was the mechanism by which you thought you might be able to do that.
[14:37] Uh to try and imitate uh call and show like you do and try to help her puzzle things out and which i knew at the time was a pretty much slim to none chance but i was already there it took me an hour and a bit drive to go to her place to begin with so i figured you know i'm already here i might as well at least give it a try and, I suspected it wasn't going to work, but I figured I'd try anyway.
[15:08] Okay, so the goal was to give her huge injections of psychic healing over the course of spending some time at her house after the hike?
[15:17] Yes.
[15:19] Okay, tell me your thinking about that.
[15:24] Well, I've spent so much time either in therapy, listening to your shows, reading books on psychology, self-help, all that stuff. I thought I may have a chance of it. And if not, I'll just fill up.
[15:44] I'm sorry, your microphone is making some very loud and difficult noises. Okay, so when you went to her house, was that with the intention of trying to give her some self-knowledge and and rescue her from the dysfunction.
[16:02] Yes and.
[16:05] Was that with the goal of continuing to date her or were you was it sort of like a charity thing i'm gonna throw some self-knowledge your way and and and bail.
[16:15] Yeah it was the charity thing because like even if she did you know take it in and start working on herself like it seemed highly unlikely we would even be a match anyway because that would take probably a couple years and then you know she'd still need to get a better living condition get a job and yeah it was a charity thing because it wasn't going to work between us there's no way.
[16:47] Okay i'm sorry so her living situation was bad.
[16:50] Yeah and.
[16:52] She didn't have a job.
[16:54] No she didn't.
[16:55] Do you know what she lived what did she live on.
[16:59] I i think it's just a charity of her family i never asked she never said i just assumed that she's just living for free with either her parents or her brothers okay she goes between them all.
[17:10] Oh so she just kind of bungees between various family members.
[17:14] Yeah okay.
[17:17] And when over the course of the week did you find out that she was unemployed and, I mean, relatively homeless?
[17:29] Um, I think it was the Thursday when I gave her a call. I mean, I, I suspected it because, you know, she was saying we were texting throughout the week and she would say at like, at noon that she was going out, hanging out with a friend. I'm like, shouldn't you be working?
[17:53] Right. Right.
[17:53] And like, what are you doing? Buying plants at one o'clock in the afternoon.
[17:59] Well, and with what money?
[18:01] Yeah, exactly.
[18:03] I mean, it could also be that, I'm not saying it's true, but it could be the case that her boyfriends were giving her money to?
[18:10] Yeah, I think that's quite likely.
[18:13] Okay.
[18:15] Which was also very interesting, because on the Saturday, she was really upset about some of her exes referring to her as just a hole or a prostitute, yet that's kind of what she was in a way. i'm sorry what yeah she had some exes or friends with benefits that would berate her tell her to kill herself and you know call her nothing but a hole and like oh dear which is another thing you learned this.
[18:44] On the hike.
[18:45] Uh towards the end of the hike but yeah, and she went into more detail when we were at her place.
[18:55] Okay so this is the woman you introduced on the live stream as a lovely person, yes, okay so.
[19:10] Oh why well to kind of circle back to our early part of the conversation like when I met her I thought she was lovely. The more I got to know her, the more I realized how dysfunctional she was. That's why I went about that in the live stream. That was my thought process behind it.
[19:30] Well, no, but you introduced her as a lovely person.
[19:34] Yeah, right. Even after I knew her.
[19:37] Right. So help me understand that there's a reason for that because it's very confusing to others. And how can a lovely person have all of these negative characteristics, right?
[19:52] Yeah, that's interesting because that was my thought process behind it during the live stream.
[19:57] Sorry, what was your thought process behind it? I don't know what you're talking about.
[20:02] That when I first met her, I thought she was lovely. The more I got to know her, the more I realized how dysfunctional she was.
[20:08] Okay. And she's dating some pretty negative and dangerous men, right? If they're referring to her as a prostitute and a hole and... Right. That's really, that's dangerous and destructive, right?
[20:19] Yeah, it's a bit of an understatement, but yeah, for sure.
[20:24] So, why would you introduce her as a lovely person? And again, this is not some big criticism, but I'm really curious. What's the purpose behind that? Because you knew better by then, right?
[20:39] Yeah.
[20:39] Okay. So that's the, because it, and you're doing that in a community of people who are, you know trying to scan for good and bad actors and and and all of that, and so how can a lovely person have all of these dysfunctions so it is misleading to the community as a whole and again i'm not saying you had any nefarious intent but i'm just i'm curious why, you would put that on her like that nomenclature why would you describe her that way.
[21:15] Well, you had said during that live stream that it may have been like an unconscious cry for help. And I think that may have been the case because I haven't really trying to think about my intentions at the time. It could have been me trying to camouflage this woman and pass her off as a good person when she wasn't.
[21:38] Yeah i think i think it probably has something to do with trying to explain or reason to yourself, why after you had all of these red flags over the course of the week in the texting and the phone calls why you went on a four-hour hike with her yeah so why did you go i mean so, you you had red flags over the course of the week right yes, and, you avoided like when she said she's going to go play by plants in the middle of the day you avoided asking what she did for a living right yeah.
[22:21] At least till later on in the week but yeah at the time i avoided it.
[22:25] Okay and so later on in the week you have you asked her what she did for a living and when she said i'm unemployed yes.
[22:32] Well yes but uh she said she was taking time off work to for herself like fix yourself kind of thing.
[22:40] Okay and you don't have to tell me what she did but did you ask her what she did for a living i.
[22:47] She did a bunch of mixed jobs here and there waitress uh worked at a call center um she worked briefly for one of her exes the one that was 25 years older than her yeah just mixed jobs here and there nothing dedicated.
[23:03] Which you know by your late 30s is kind of a mess right yeah so why did you go on the hike.
[23:14] Well, in addition to what I said earlier about maybe there was a chance, this was also the first date I've been on in like 10 years. So there's a certain vanity aspect to it.
[23:28] Because she was pretty charming.
[23:30] Yeah. Well, yeah. And the fact that I went on a date, it felt good. And my therapist was happy for me, despite the fact that her and I both knew, my therapist, that is, that it wasn't going to work out. And it could just be seen as like training for when a decent woman comes along.
[23:52] And how did you leave things after the hour at her place?
[23:58] I just kind of was like, hey, I got to go. And gave her a hug, wished her luck, and just left.
[24:07] And you haven't been in contact since is that right well.
[24:10] The sunday after was uh you know star wars day and so i sent her you know may the fourth be with you she sent me a nice little gif after and that was the last we spoke.
[24:21] Okay we.
[24:23] Did have plans to go to a different dance tonight but yeah that's not gonna happen i'm i'm.
[24:28] Not neither of you have been with this moment no okay yeah, all right so by the time i'm sorry that was a saturday you texted on the sunday and when was when did you mention all of this on the live stream.
[24:48] Uh that was the following sunday after our hike.
[24:52] Okay got it got it okay, okay so the purpose of saying she was a lovely person uh as opposed to she i thought she was a lovely person turns out there was a lot of dysfunction and so on um the purpose of saying she was a lovely person is was it too because you know in terms of self-knowledge and uh it was it was a falsehood right you knew much better by then yeah so why would you put a falsehood forward in a community dedicated to honesty and again i know this sounds like some finger wagging nagging thing i don't mean it that way but why would you put forward a very confusing falsehood, in a community really focused on a self-knowledge and honesty.
[25:54] I think one of my hopes from that was to get a bit of praise the fact that i actually went on a date, because that's what I did to an extent with my therapist and some of my friends um.
[26:17] Oh, your therapist and your friends praised you for going on a date.
[26:20] Yes, but I also did give the caveat that she was not a good woman and it wasn't going to work out between us.
[26:29] Yes, but that was a little further down in the text, if I remember rightly.
[26:35] Yeah. Yeah, if I recall correctly, when I originally sent you the message on the live stream, I did it in two paragraphs because I couldn't just... the character limit.
[26:47] Kind of thing.
[26:48] And yeah it was the second paragraph that i went into like yeah she's really not a good person lots of dysfunctions what would you do in this situation right.
[26:58] So you introduced her as a lovely person and then you said she's not a good person, yeah now you were expecting to get praise but you didn't right no i mean not that you got any kind of condemnation or anything like that, but you didn't get praise. So then my question is, why did you think that misleading the community would get you praise?
[27:37] Probably because I do that with myself so often. what.
[27:42] Do you mean.
[27:42] That that i might say to myself that doing a certain, i don't know activity or joining certain groups would be good for me and.
[28:03] No that's not the same category though so saying i don't know i go and join a gardening group or a pottery group or a pickleball group might be good for you that's not a false it i mean it could be that case right.
[28:12] Yeah but.
[28:14] Introducing a highly dysfunctional and as you say immoral woman as a lovely person that's not the same category right.
[28:21] Yeah yeah you're right i mean the answer's kind of like on the tip of my tongue somewhere it's a little buried actually not quite on the tip of my tongue but it's something along the lines of well i lie and falsify to myself and it works so it'll probably work in the community too.
[28:40] Okay, so but what do you lie and falsify about to yourself? I mean, joining a group that might be good for you is not that, right? Unless it's some kind of criminal gang, which I know it's not, right? So what do you do with yourself that involves this kind of falsification?
[29:00] Well, I, I can't think of an example at the moment, a, there's probably one in there somewhere, or probably a couple of them.
[29:09] So you, you have to have a dedication to truth and that's very lax sometimes I think with you. And again, it's not a criticism, but I think you do things for the sake of impression or, oh, you know, she was lovely, like I'm being a nice guy or, you know, but, but that's not having the same real dedication to just being honest.
[29:30] And again, this is a live stream.
[29:32] I'm not trying to say this is some foundational issue in your life. I don't know. But in terms of a commitment to just telling the truth, gritting your teeth and being honest, I think that's not as strong a muscle as it could be. Now, I mean, this is true for all of us, so I'm not trying to single you out here, but I think you just kind of typed unconsciously, oh, like she was a lovely person, like you're being positive and trying to put your best foot forward and so on. But that's not a really rigorous dedication to honesty.
[30:02] Right. And there are two things I want to add on to that. Not only my dedication to truth and honesty, but my dedication to other things as a whole. like i've been working out pretty solidly for maybe about two years now but i also know i i hold back like there'd be times where i don't do enough of a workout but i'll pat myself on the back like oh i i did a workout right or i'll do like a two paragraph journal entry when i know i have a lot more to write about and i'll be like okay well i did a good job i did the journal entry so which is yeah like it's same pattern there like i'm not as dedicated to truth but i i am to a minor degree and with like a lot of the other self-knowledge and improvement stuff like i'm one foot in one foot out and it's also a pattern i've seen with my parents too although i'm a lot better at it because they'll my parents would have like like my father would have a project that he wants to do and he'll do it for like a day or two and he'll sit on it for like a year um i'm a lot better on that like i have a dedication to working out and like i said i do it but not as much as i should uh does this make sense to you stuff well.
[31:24] I mean i'm not sure how much you should but if you pat yourself on the back for things that you haven't achieved like a thorough journal entry or a good workout or something like that, then the question is, why? You say, oh, my father had these projects, but why would you not say, yeah, I could do a better journal entry, but I'm not going to at the moment?
[31:50] Well, I think it's what you said about like two or three minutes ago, that it's the appearance. This is in your own mind.
[31:58] What appearance is there?
[31:59] Yeah.
[32:00] I mean, you do in a journal entry. I mean, it's not like other people read it or you send it in for review, I assume.
[32:05] Yeah. So that's not an appearance thing. When it comes to these things, I do tend to brag about it. Like my workouts or self-knowledge and journal entry, my reading, et cetera, et cetera.
[32:18] You brag about it to who?
[32:20] Oh, yeah. uh you know it could be friends could be potential dates like oh yeah i like to read and journal and exercise.
[32:27] Okay but that's true right yeah okay so yeah.
[32:33] It is but like i also know that i'm going easy on myself when it comes to these things.
[32:40] Okay so why are you going easy on yourself, um which is just a kind of dishonesty right yeah.
[32:50] It is, and well my initial thoughts is because it's it's kind of hard to do i i know there's probably more than that but.
[33:03] Well yeah the issue the issue isn't that you do a brief journal entry right that's not the issue the issue isn't that you do a light workout or whatever right what's the issue.
[33:18] I i don't have a dedication to truth and honesty.
[33:21] Well that you gaslight yourself about what you've done right right right like i used to sometimes write for three or four hours or three hours and you know yesterday i wrote for like a little over an hour i wrote like 1200 words right now that's not a big writing day right yeah but i'm not going to sit there and say wow i wrote a lot today i'm like yeah i i kind of did what i did um i finished the chapter i didn't feel like writing anymore um and so i stopped right i don't even have a judgment as to whether that was right or wrong or good or bad but that is what happened right yeah okay so, So why falsify things to yourself?
[34:19] I would say it's a fear of being attacked or fear of being judged for not doing enough or not being good enough.
[34:27] Okay, so why not confront that? Because you're trying to help this woman, right?
[34:34] Yeah.
[34:35] But you kind of have to have a dedication to truth within yourself before you help others, right?
[34:40] Yeah.
[34:41] So why not just say... Sorry, go ahead.
[34:44] Well, it's kind of like you said in the live stream, Physician Heal Thyself.
[34:49] Right so why not just confront that self-attack for not doing things enough, do you feel like you can't win against that or or it's too embedded or you're just gonna feel bad and lose out or what i.
[35:06] Think it's a mix of that and also that the inner critic might be right and i don't want to deal with that.
[35:12] Okay so let's say the inner critic is right and you do two paragraphs when you have a lot of stuff to journal about and you say well that was great journal entry and your inner critic says no it really wasn't okay so let's say the inner critic is right so then what.
[35:28] Well then i'm just weak and i can't dedicate myself to what i want to do um you know i'm a failure i've always been a failure that's what the inner critic would would say.
[35:43] But the inner critic really kind of hang on but the inner critic must be kind of frustrated that you keep lying to the inner critic i mean if someone kept lying to you you'd get kind of frustrated too right.
[35:54] The inner critic's lying.
[35:57] Well yeah because the inner critic is saying that was not a good workout the inner critic is saying that was not a comprehensive journal entry right, yeah and you keep saying no it's great workout or no it's a really good journal entry or whatever right so you're kind of provoking the inner critic and and fueling the inner critic right in the same way that you were kind of provoking the community and fueling criticism of yourself by referring to this messed up woman as a lovely person yeah.
[36:26] That's a good point and really reminds me of uh the simon and the boxer um analogy you use because i'm used to being bullied and harassed So I'm kind of even just doing that within my own fucking head.
[36:38] Right. Right. And so listen, the inner critic could be right.
[36:44] Yeah.
[36:49] And if you keep saying to the inner critic, shut up, you're wrong. Well, the inner critic is trying to help you by giving you an accurate assessment of your life, right?
[37:02] Yeah.
[37:04] You know, like while I was dealing with this ear thing, I didn't do great shows. My inner critic was saying, these are not great shows. They're not terrible, but they're not great. And I'm like, yep, I can't argue with that, right? yeah and i could see from the donations that people weren't massively inspired i'm still glad i continued to do them but you know they're getting better now right so my inner critic was like these aren't great shows this is not the kind of quality that you are capable of producing when you are in in a great state of mind right yeah okay so if i would be like no no no these are great shows, right? My inner critic would get kind of annoyed, right?
[37:54] Yeah.
[37:55] Because I would be not taking the feedback, you know, because the inner critic, you can say it's inner critic, but if you listen to it, generally it turns into an inner coach. And the coach that's trying to have you be skilled and be good at something. To be skilled and to be good at something, you have to be able to take criticism, right?
[38:17] Yeah.
[38:18] You know, if you're singing off key, your singing teacher should say, that's a bit pitchy and let's work it again and try and figure out what's going on with your breath control or whatever it is, right? If you're trying to play guitar and you're playing the wrong notes, then your guitar teacher should say, that's not correct. Let's check your positioning of your hands, right? So excellence requires coaching and feedback, right?
[38:41] Yeah, absolutely.
[38:43] And so you are teaching, you are treating your inner critic as if your inner critic or coach is an abuser.
[38:54] Yeah.
[38:56] But of course, if you're calling your inner critic an abuser and a mean guy, then your inner critic is going to be annoyed. Right? In the same way that if you were trying to teach your kid how to jump rope or something, and they just get yelling at you that you were just being mean and terrible, you'd get kind of annoyed, right? Like, help.
[39:19] Yeah. And on a whole nother level too, um, with the, the work I do with my therapist, which is a branch of internal family systems therapy, like I could actually like totally visualize and see my inner critic, like he's an actual person and he always takes a shape or typically takes the shape of my father. So when I see my inner critic berating me, it's pretty much the exact same situation I had with my actual father. And yeah, it's been taking a long time to break out of that. And I think it was around a week or two ago now, you had that live stream where, you know, you're saying to make friends with your inner parents. I'm kind of like putting those two together right now. You know, having a relationship with my inner parents and inner critic.
[40:12] Your inner critic needs to get a seat at the table. He's got important stuff to tell you.
[40:18] Right.
[40:20] Right and so for me when i said um over the last you know month or two sorry these shows have not been great i think that validates that people are like yeah you know the good shows but not great or decent shows but not great so when i say yeah decent shows but not great i'm showing a comfort with my inner critic and knowing that there needs to be an improvement yeah so, my inner critic is saying these shows are decent but not great okay but not great i'm like yeah i can't argue with that i think i think you're right and that gives me a gap to close right, but then when i talk about that on the show i think i can i can say that people are like okay so Stef can listen to his inner critic and agree and and all of that right because my inner critic It's not abusive. It's trying to give me realistic feedback to... To help me accurately assess the quality of what it is that I'm doing, if that makes sense.
[41:26] Yeah, it does. No, I'm also curious, Stef. Now, you would say you'd have a good relationship with your endocritic, correct?
[41:36] Yeah, I think so.
[41:39] Now, has there been a time when you did not have a good relationship with it?
[41:43] Oh, absolutely. Yeah, for sure. Yeah, I mean, when I was younger, I'd fight tooth and nail against my endocritic.
[41:48] Gotcha and how would that how would that play out like would it be like your inner critic is like full-on abusing you like you're a failure you're never going to amount to anything like full-on like verbally abusive bullying kind of thing um no it didn't quite work.
[42:05] That way it was just that feeling that um i was sort of foundationally wrong in some way.
[42:11] And and.
[42:14] In a way that was just different from others. And I mean, my inner critic kind of had a point because my thinking is very different from society as a whole. And, you know, I'm like the bald guy from the future almost. Right. So when my inner critic was like, you are wrong foundationally. And my inner critic was telling me that relative to social norms, I was very much in opposition or in deviation from. And my inner critic was trying to have me close the gap between my thinking and society as a whole, for reasons of obvious reproductive fitness and blah, blah, blah, right? So, uh, listening to that and saying, you know what? You're right. You're right. My thinking is enormously different from society as a whole. Now, once my inner critic felt listened to, then the escalation or the aggression diminished in the same way that, you know, I mean, good customer services, you know, if somebody's mad at you, uh, listen, right.
[43:28] I listen and, and.
[43:30] And agree with their experience if not necessarily their conclusions.
[43:38] Okay because like the reason why i'm asking this is because my inner critic at times he can be enormously helpful whether it be in the shape of my father or other people but there are times No.
[43:54] No. Your inner critic is not in the shape of your father. Your inner critic is in reaction to your father. Right? That's like saying that the antibodies are the illness. Your inner father, so to speak, is there to protect you from your father. He's not your father. Your father would attack you, and then you internalize that attack to try and prevent the outer attack. Right? So saying that the antibodies are the same as the illness is incorrect. The antibodies are in response to the illness and they're to protect you from the illness.
[44:26] Okay.
[44:27] Right. So assessing your inner father as the same as your father is to create a fractious and hostile relationship to something that is there to protect you.
[44:40] Okay, because I can understand that, but it doesn't seem to help, if that makes sense. Because my inner father will be really no different than my actual father at times. It's like, how is this helping me exactly? Okay, so what's the purpose?
[44:57] Hang on, hang on. What is the purpose of your inner father? Why does he exist in your mind?
[45:04] The purpose of the inner father is to embody the rules and persona of my actual father, so when i do something that i know my father wouldn't like the inner father would attack me for it so i don't do it so my actual father won't punish me right well.
[45:24] Is it an attack if it is trying to keep you safe, you say you're in a father.
[45:32] No i guess it wouldn't be an attack yeah it feels like an attack but i guess it wouldn't be okay well.
[45:37] It wouldn't if it's keeping you safe right so so if you think like let's say you're in some rural cabin right in the middle of woods and you see some bear prints in in the ground outside and you feel nervous about going out, right?
[45:58] Yeah.
[45:59] Is that nervousness, which is a negative experience, is that harming you?
[46:04] No, quite the opposite.
[46:05] It's trying to make sure you don't get your scalp ripped off by some grizzly, right?
[46:10] Yeah.
[46:11] So you are experiencing something negative in order to avoid something physically dangerous. I mean, if you're at the beach and you see a bunch of fins in the water, like big fins, maybe it's dolphins, maybe it's sharks. Right? But you're probably not going to go into water and find out, right?
[46:34] Yeah.
[46:38] So you say, well, my uneasiness about the bear or my uneasiness about the sharks is attacking me. It's like, no, it's not attacking you. It's evoking a negative emotion. To keep you alive.
[46:59] Yeah, that makes sense. My problem seems to be arising is treating my, continuing to treat my inner father like my actual father.
[47:08] Right. Which is saying my fear of the bear, my fear of the bear is the bear. It's like, no, they're opposites. Your fear of the bear is to keep the bear from killing you. Your fear of the sharks is to keep the sharks from killing you. Fear of the sharks are not the sharks. Fear of the bear is not the bear. They're opposites. The bear is dangerous. Your fear of the bear is trying to keep you safe.
[47:43] Gotcha.
[47:44] So it's like the kid who wants to run all over the parking lot and the parent picks him up and says no and the kid is like you're such a bully, you're a tyrant it's like no, you're gonna run out and get hit by a car, put a helmet on your kids when they go biking, especially when they're learning right? you're such a bully controlling me, no I'm trying to keep your brains inside your head.
[48:20] Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
[48:21] So when you would do something that might provoke your actual father, your inner father would tell you not to. But then you would fight with it and hate it.
[48:35] Yeah.
[48:37] So if you're in the cabin and there's bear prints, like big Jurassic Park bear prints all outside the cabin, and you feel this unease and then you say to your unease don't you tell me what to do i paid good money for this cabin i'm going outside what is your unease going to do.
[48:54] It's gonna escalate.
[48:56] That's right and then you're going to feel that that escalation is bullying yourself and screw that i'm going outside right oh.
[49:08] To add to this analogy like i'm in the cabin there's bear prince outside i have no food in the house i need to go out and get food so it's like a damned if i do damn if i don't i'm gonna starve if i stay here.
[49:23] Okay what's the starvation in this analogy uh.
[49:28] The starvation is going out and proving my life like say exercising more reading more uh going out having conversations with people like building connections like my inner critic would attack me for trying to do that and but i kind of want to need to do that does that make sense.
[49:53] Okay so your inner critic attacks you for self-improvement yes okay what's your relationship with your father at the moment.
[50:04] It's not existing he's not part of my life.
[50:06] Okay so the bare footprints are there which is the memory but the bear is gone right yeah so the question is why has your inner father not registered that your father is not a factor in your life and sorry how long has it been since you've had a relationship with your father um.
[50:27] About four months probably a little bit more maybe like five now.
[50:31] Okay so that's not a long time right yeah it's recent and you don't have to tell me how old you are 30s 40s 20s i'm 29 29 okay almost 30 okay so for almost three decades your father has been a constant and dangerous factor in your life is that a fair statement yes, So to take the analogy, if we say that you have a cabin, I don't know, let's see here. It's in the snow, right? And there are polar bear prints. And now it's, you know, winter might be coming to an end, but the polar bear might still be there. Now, in summer, the polar bear is not going to be there, right? Because it's too hot, right?
[51:19] Yeah.
[51:19] So, it's going to take a while for your inner father to register that your outer father is no longer a vivid immediate factor, right?
[51:35] Yeah.
[51:37] Now, there's a way to accelerate that process, though.
[51:42] Well, you got my attention.
[51:43] So, the way to accelerate that process is stop fighting your inner critic. Yeah. Stop lying to your inner critic and refusing to take feedback.
[52:02] Gotcha. That's a good point.
[52:03] If you start fighting your inner critic, and that doesn't mean that your inner critic is now the boss of you and everything your inner critic says is perfectly valid. But the way to reduce the escalation or aggression from your inner critic is to listen and say, yeah, you know what, make the case. Make the case.
[52:24] Yeah. Like you were saying earlier, he has a seat at the table.
[52:27] He's not the boss he's not a slave he's not an enemy because he's in your head and nothing that's in your head is there to harm you, at least you know I mean maybe some extremity or whatever but in general as a whole I mean my approach is yeah you know make the case right so when I was like yeah you know maybe I'm not doing great shows right now I'd be like okay let's hear the case.
[52:58] You know, maybe I'm showing some resilience in the face of, you know, a difficult situation, you know, pushing forward, doing shows anyway, and accepting that they're not ideal. Maybe that's showing some kind of, I don't know, courage or resolution or something like that. Who knows, right? But it's like, yeah, it's a fact that my shows are not as good. I mean, I've lacked vocal power for a while for reasons of like my ear buzzes when I talk. So, you know but sit down and do the shows anyway even though it can be tough right so, i'm like my inner critic says these aren't great shows i'm like yes in terms of content maybe in terms of form i'm showing some resolution and dedication and so on but i'm happy to hear the case right yeah, so with regards to your inner critic yeah.
[54:00] You acted, I think, in defiance of your inner critic by pursuing a relationship or a potential relationship with the woman you met at the dance and then introducing her as a lovely person. I think your inner critic was probably trying to warn you.
[54:18] Yeah, and he was spot on.
[54:20] Right. So the fact that you put yourself in a risky situation, I mean, let's be perfectly frank, right?
[54:28] Yeah.
[54:28] In that, listen, she could have attached to you. She could have become a stalker. She could have, you know, something weird could have happened when you were at her place and she didn't want you to leave. Or, you know, I don't know. But, you know, this is not a very robust and mentally healthy woman, it sounds like. So your inner critic was probably trying to warn you. And you were like, well, you're a bully and I don't listen to you. And I'll just falsify things.
[55:04] Yeah. Yeah, essentially just treating him like he's my actual father.
[55:08] Right. Right. But if you have bacteria or viruses and then you treat your antibodies as if they are the illness, you can't ever really be healthy because the antibodies are there to protect you from the illness. And your inner father is there to protect you from the dangers of your outer father. And since you couldn't negotiate with your outer father, you just had to kind of be pushed around by your inner father. But if you actually negotiate and listen to your inner father, I think that's the best signal to your inner father that the outer father is not a direct factor anymore.
[55:51] Right, that's a very good point. Yeah, it's like the change of the seasons. Use the cabin analogy.
[55:59] Yeah, the polar bear's gone, man. Trust me. And our inner selves, they're not lost to time. They're not lost to empiricism. Right. So if it's summer, right, and you're still in the cabin and then you read, there's a book on bears in the cabin and you open it up and you say, they say the polar bears are never there in the summer. okay it's summer so the polar bear's gone then your fight or flight mechanism should listen and relax about that yeah that may still be a little uneasy how do you but i'm sorry go ahead.
[56:37] Well it may still be a little uneasy because it's just so used to having that bear around but like there's reasons for it to relax.
[56:45] Well no it won't be uneasy because there can't be a bear now maybe there's another kind of bear i don't know black bear grizzly bear brown bear whatever right but the polar bear won't be there because it's summer gotcha so there may be some unease because you're in the middle of nowhere and there are bears or coyotes or wolves or whatever right but the polar bear it will not be alarmed of.
[57:12] Yeah, that makes sense.
[57:17] So, with regards to your inner critic, just listen. Now, you don't want to make your inner critic some sort of tyrant by just bowing down or fighting back, you know, for no particular reason. But it's like, if you have criticisms, let's hear them, right?
[57:34] Yeah.
[57:35] Let's hear them. And then you'd be amazed. I mean, I don't know if you've ever been in the situation where you have a criticism of someone or something like some, maybe it could be something at the, you know, at the, um, at a restaurant, right? Like you get a bad meal or something like that. And they listen and they're like, you know what, we're totally sorry. Here's a coupon for a free meal. I'm not going to charge you for this one. Don't you feel this kind of ease?
[58:00] Yeah. Yeah. It's very blissful too.
[58:02] Right so if you have criticisms as opposed to well you ordered the wrong thing and our chef is the best and you know we we're going to charge you extra for for complaining right, that's just going to make you more mad isn't it yeah if they lie to you or gaslight you or you know whatever right that's just gonna i mean you're certainly not going to go back right, so with having empathy for your inner critic which is to say when i have a criticism of someone i prefer if they listen now they don't have to agree with everything but i at least once i have once i get that the person i'm criticizing understands my perspective then things deescalate Even if they may end up not agreeing with it for various reasons, but as long as I understand that they have absorbed and accepted my perspective, my criticism, then tensions diminish.
[59:02] Yeah, and even through the course of this conversation, talking about the inner critics, I can feel a shift within me. Whether it be my inner father, inner critic, or however they show up, There's like a renewed optimism on both our ends.
[59:21] Right. So you couldn't reason with your father and you just had to resist him, which is what your inner critic is doing. But if you treat your inner critic like your father, your inner critic is really frustrated.
[59:33] Yeah.
[59:34] Right. Like if someone has poisoned you and you're in the hospital and you fight the person trying to pump your stomach like they're trying to poison you, you're actually endangering yourself more. Right.
[59:45] Yeah.
[59:45] Like they're trying to help you. they're trying to get the poison out of you but if you say man this this process of getting my stomach pumped is really really unpleasant and difficult and you're trying to kill me well then, you're not you're not safe you're treating you're treating the person who's trying to heal you as same as the person who tried to poison you but the person who's trying to pump your stomach is doing it because the person poisoned you they are a reaction to a dangerous situation. Whereas if you say, well, thank you. I appreciate this, blah, blah, blah. Right. Well, then they can pump your stomach and you can get better.
[1:00:24] Yeah. And it's all the sucks. you know stuff i was i've been thinking about since i put in this call and request how this conversation was going to go and things we talk about i was not expecting this this was pretty.
[1:00:43] That's why we have the conversations because if you expected it you wouldn't need to have the conversation has to be something new right yeah.
[1:00:48] Exactly yeah because.
[1:00:51] So so you you had so i think the mechanic was sorry to interrupt uh the mechanic was you had criticisms of yourself pursuing a potential relationship with this, you know, sounds like pretty messed up woman, right?
[1:01:06] Yeah.
[1:01:07] So rather than say, you know, I didn't listen to my inner critic, I didn't, I wasn't skeptical and I tried to pursue this and then I wanted to help her even though I wasn't listening to my inner critic and was kind of falsifying things to myself. So that would be a statement of self-knowledge and all of that. She's like, oh no, no, no, she was lovely, lovely person. That's a way of, basically, you're giving the middle finger to your inner critic, right?
[1:01:34] Yeah.
[1:01:35] Whereas your inner critic probably sussed her out from the beginning, right? So this was kind of an F you to your inner critic, and you were responding to that rather than being direct and honest in the community. Sorry, you were going to say, go ahead.
[1:01:50] Yeah, yeah, there are two things I wanted to say there. For one, I'm doing a little bit of a recap here. like my inner critic was just kind of laughing at me in a way it's like yeah i was kind of right the whole time and also like when you said um the inner critic was sussing her out from the beginning, like i was kind of skeptical almost the moment i laid eyes on her i don't even know what it was well it's the too good to be true it's the too good to be true.
[1:02:19] She's attractive she's charming she's funny she's a great dancer she's a good company she's this okay then why is she alone here at a dance?
[1:02:29] What do you mean? Well, I mean, I should have given this detail at the start, but her brother was part of the band. So, yeah, she was alone on the dance floor, but she didn't just come there alone.
[1:02:44] Okay, that's still not particularly relevant. You know, she's 38. Why is she, if she's so wonderful, right, why is she still single?
[1:02:59] Yeah. Yeah, when I shared my experience with this woman in Telegram and in vocals, a lot of the members of the community were asking the same thing. It's like, okay, well then why is she single at 38? And even if it does work out, it's like getting a woman pregnant at that age is almost impossible.
[1:03:23] Well and listen i mean it certainly is within the realm of possibility that she's single at 38 because she's really wonderful and nobody can appreciate her value and blah blah blah blah i get that yeah but it's also possible to save your retirement by winning the lottery but it's not what we bank on right yeah exactly so a skepticism, is important and healthy. And listen, you can listen to your inner critic and still go on the hike. Like if you said it's important, you said you haven't been on a date in 10 years, you just wanted to kind of rip the band-aid off or go on some damn date. Okay, so you can listen to the inner critic. And he's going to say, look, there's these red flags, there's these red flags, let's not go into this blindfolded. Right, you can listen to your inner critic and say, you know what, everything you're saying, makes sense and i i accept that i still want to go on the date because i just i just have to get some experience in dating yeah so your inner critic is like your inner critic is like look if you, if you want to go out of the cabin.
[1:04:39] Because you're hungry or whatever right right so if you if you want to go out of the cabin when there's bear prints around what does your inner critic say if you want to go out of the cabin you say you know what I accept that there's that there could very likely be a dangerous bear out there but I gotta go I really want to go out of the cabin what's your inner critic gonna say.
[1:05:02] Uh, well, he'll make his case and he'll object to it.
[1:05:07] Nope. Oh, no. Your inner critic doesn't want you to starve to death if you're hungry. Right.
[1:05:13] True.
[1:05:13] So what is your inner critic going to say if you want to step out of the cabin and there could be a bear around?
[1:05:18] Oh, uh, proceed with extreme caution.
[1:05:21] Take a gun, take some bear spray, like keep your eyes peeled, uh, like go out, but be aware of the danger.
[1:05:29] Yeah. Yeah. Whereas my approach was, you know, to take like, um, like those lyrics from Rage Against the Machine, you know, fuck you. I won't do what you tell me about a thing.
[1:05:42] So what you said was not only is there no bear, there's a beautiful baby deer fawn out there. She was lovely. You was a lovely person.
[1:05:59] Yeah.
[1:06:00] And what that does is it puts the idea into the community, people in the community's head, that someone can be a lovely person and turn out to be completely messed up. Well, what that does is it gives other people the idea that let's say they go out to some place and they meet a woman who seems lovely. They're going to be like, oh, yeah, but she could turn out to be really messed up. But that's not fair to give that impression to other people, right?
[1:06:25] Right. Yeah, and frankly, that's even what this woman was saying too. Well, that's even what this woman was saying too, because when I was pushing back on some of her relationships with friends with benefits, I'm like, well, what were the red flags? How do you even determine a good person from a bad person? It's like, oh, everybody seemed great, and there are all these great things about him. It's to imply that there's no way to tell a good person from a bad person.
[1:06:56] Right. Right. Right. Right. And that then transferred to you and transferred to the live stream.
[1:07:05] Yeah. And everybody on the live stream, even my before mentioned comments in Telegram and locals, everybody pushed back.
[1:07:16] So what did this woman do to vet you over the course of the dance and over the course of the week before you met up for the hike?
[1:07:26] Well, frankly, she didn't do any.
[1:07:28] Right. So she just sailed on, didn't ask you about your history, didn't ask you about your relationships, didn't ask you about your intentions, didn't ask you anything, right?
[1:07:38] No. And frankly, it was even worse than that too, because there would be times where she would ask a little bit about me. And there'd be something related to something going on in her life. And then the conversation would just flip back to her, all talking about her. Right. So, yeah, she didn't want to get to know me at all, really.
[1:07:54] Yeah, and she's almost a decade older than you, and she's sailing into the land of no fertility, and she's not vetting you at all.
[1:08:02] Yeah.
[1:08:03] Well, that's a huge red flag. Which is also another red flag.
[1:08:05] Yeah. Yeah, which is something I've struggled with in my limited experience trying to date women. There's not a lot of women that are curious about me. It's pretty much always one-sided.
[1:08:23] Well...
[1:08:26] Why do you think that is?
[1:08:32] Why do I think that is? It's probably because I'm just yawning for not good women.
[1:08:38] Well, you're dealing with women at a surface level. She's pretty charming, right?
[1:08:44] Yeah.
[1:08:45] Right, this is what a lot of relationships, quote relationships, are based on. Fun. Sex. and maybe some shared experiences.
[1:08:59] Right?
[1:08:59] Status, all that stuff. Status or whatever, right?
[1:09:00] Yeah.
[1:09:01] Fun, sex, and lust, or whatever it is, right? There's like the girls say about the girl, it's cute and funny, right? So you're dealing with these women at a surface level, and then you complain that they're not interested in you at a deep level. they're superficially charming and pretty and you're like okay sounds great.
[1:09:22] Yeah and what i do is start to go a little deeper with these women they'll break it off which it it sucks but it's also a good thing it's like i wouldn't want to date them anyway.
[1:09:33] Now but your inner critic will steer you away from these women to begin with but you gotta listen, because your inner critic right your inner critic will say with regards to this woman I don't know exactly, right? But your inner critic would say something like this, I think. Okay, so she's pretty, she's charming, but she's too old. And she's not vetting you. She doesn't seem to have a job. She complains about her exes. You know, I mean, I know some of that was overlapping onto the hike and all of that. But your inner critic would be skeptical to begin with and would say, why are you attracted to this woman? Because she's fun and pretty, right?
[1:10:18] Yeah.
[1:10:19] Now, what does philosophy say about why you should be attracted to a romantic partner?
[1:10:28] Attracted to her virtues.
[1:10:29] Right. So, at the dance, did she display any particular virtues? no over the course of texting over the week did she display no any particular virtues, none so your inner critic was probably yelling in your ear and you're like shut up i just need to go on a date yeah and maybe i can get laid.
[1:10:53] Uh well that was a very rough thought but i wasn't about to do that either so.
[1:11:00] Well it's pretty tough if she's an attractive woman and she comes along she comes at you really strong when you go to her place it's pretty tough to resist i mean the better thing is to not get into those situations to begin with.
[1:11:14] Yeah yeah you're right.
[1:11:24] So if you're going to engage with them at a superficial level, based upon, you know, fun and pretty, as opposed to moral and honest, then there's really not much point complaining that they don't seem to be very curious about you, because you're dealing with them at a very superficial level, right? Fun and pretty.
[1:11:52] Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
[1:11:53] And if you're looking at a woman who's 38 and is, quote, fun and pretty, then you have to look and say, okay, she's been in the dating market for more than 20 years, right? And nobody has snapped her up.
[1:12:07] Yeah.
[1:12:16] If a used car has been on the lot for 20 years and nobody has bought it what are the odds it's a really high quality used car oh.
[1:12:26] Next to none.
[1:12:27] Right especially.
[1:12:29] If to continue to use that analogy if people just use it for like a month or two and.
[1:12:34] Then return it back yeah yeah the odds of it being a lemon are close to 100 right yeah, Yeah, if there's a car for sale, and they're honest about it, said this car was made over 20 years ago, and nobody has owned it for more than a month or so, and everybody who owns it is very enthusiastic and then wants to sell it within a couple of weeks, the odds of it being a high-quality car are very low.
[1:13:08] Yeah, that makes a lot of sense, but you're cutting out a little bit here and there, little robotic sounds. I'm not sure if that's mine or yours.
[1:13:16] I mean i'm on a very fast data line so i don't think it's mine but um as long as you get in the gist i have a local recording so we should be we should be all right okay good so yeah i mean i don't have much more to add other than look i appreciate the the frankness that you brought this topic up with and none of this is a criticism you understand right i mean none of this is any kind of finger wagging or nagging or anything like that but i will say that the real dedication It is pretty hard.
[1:13:41] For me to make out what you're saying, but yeah, I do appreciate that.
[1:13:45] Okay. So if something's going wrong with your data line, you'll just have to listen to it at the end. So I'll, I'll close off here and just say, just in general, you got to make friends with your inner critic. They have real valuable stuff. They're trying to keep you safe. They're trying to keep you protected. And the best way to reduce any hostility or aggression in your inner critic is to listen and to accept what the inner critic has to say, which doesn't mean to agree with everything, but just listen and you'll find that there's a lot of valuable information that you can get that really helps guide you through life. Rejecting your inner critic is like rejecting physical pain, like you need physical pain in order to help you navigate safely through life, and you need an inner critic in order to navigate safely through life, and I think that's the better approach all right so it sounds like you can't hear me too well so i'll just close off here unless there's anything you wanted to say at the end.
[1:14:41] Well no i i appreciate that uh yeah you're starting to come through better now it's probably just telegram but um yeah i appreciate that yeah it's a dedication to honesty truth and curiosity beautiful just you know working with my inner critic because yeah like my inner critic was skeptical like i said from the moment i even put my eyes on or looking back.
[1:15:05] Yeah, I would just say, you know, sit down, do some journaling and ask your inner critic to list out everything that he saw at the very beginning. And, you know, just say, I'm going to listen. It doesn't mean we're always going to agree, but I'm absolutely going to listen.
[1:15:19] Yeah, have the conversation.
[1:15:21] Yeah. All right, man. Well, I appreciate the chat today and I look forward to seeing you on the live streams and I really do appreciate this topic. I think it's very important.
[1:15:28] Yeah. Thank you so much, Stef.
[1:15:30] Thanks, man.
[1:15:30] I appreciate it.
[1:15:31] Bye-bye.
[1:15:32] Bye for now.
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