0:03 - Introduction
1:02 - Movie Experience
3:17 - Storytelling Critique
7:12 - Parenting in Film
9:13 - Gender Dynamics in Nature
11:57 - Animated vs Live Action
13:35 - Lessons from Fairy Tales
14:32 - Nature's Harsh Realities
19:52 - The Cruelty of Nature
21:51 - Final Thoughts
This episode dives into a lively discussion revolving around a recent movie outing, where we explore the nuances of storytelling and character development in film. We engage in a back-and-forth analysis of a movie titled “Mufasa,” which we approached with skepticism and left partially viewed – a reflection of both our expectations and the film's execution.
We kick off the conversation by recounting our experience of attending the film, focusing on our arrival time just after the previews ended, setting the stage for our critique. From there, we delve into an examination of the technological advancements in animation, especially concerning water scenes and fluid dynamics, contrasting it with previous films we've watched, particularly a dinosaur documentary narrated by David Attenborough. While I found aspects of the animation impressive, my co-host critiques the execution, pointing out how stunning visuals don't compensate for a lack of coherent storytelling.
As we dissect the plot, I express frustration at what we perceive as a disjointed narrative. The film presents a series of events without a meaningful story or moral underpinning—a trait I argue diminishes its artistic value. We illustrate how characters make poor decisions, particularly the parents who neglect basic safety around a dangerous waterhole, and how this leads to calamity without any constructive message to the audience. Our banter reveals a shared belief that art should encourage reflection on choices and their repercussions, rather than convey the idea that random misfortune can befall good characters.
The conversation evolves to examine character dynamics within the film. I challenge the portrayal of gender roles, arguing that the film presents male characters in a dim light while glorifying the female characters excessively. There's a critique of cliches in character arcs where a protective father figure is depicted as lazy, while the narrative positions the mother as all-knowing and nurturing, thereby perpetuating stereotypes. We dive deep into the film's recurring tropes, analyzing the implications of these portrayals on the audience's perceptions of familial roles and responsibilities.
We then explore the broader context of how animals in nature are depicted, reflecting on the disconnect between this representation and the harsh realities of survival. I lament a cultural trend towards sanitizing childhood narratives, arguing that children today are often shielded from valuable life lessons about danger and the consequences of poor decisions. I draw comparisons with classic fairy tales that, despite their grimness, teach essential life lessons about caution and awareness.
The episode takes a humorous turn as we recount personal anecdotes relating to nature and the stark realities it can present. From childhood encounters with pets and wildlife to the deeper lessons learned from observing nature’s unforgiving tendencies, we highlight the importance of these experiences in forming a realistic understanding of life for younger generations.
We conclude with a candid dismissal of the movie we attempted to watch, deeming it unworthy of our time and money. Our reflections encapsulate a broader discourse about the purpose of storytelling, advocating for narratives that not only entertain but also educate and provoke thought. It's clear that our experiences, both in cinema and in life, shape our perspectives on value—artistic or otherwise—and we invite listeners to ponder these themes as we sign off and head out for a well-deserved snack.
[0:00] All right. Who begged you to not go to the movie? Who begged? No one.
[0:04] What? I was apparently- Our future selves begged. I was apparently being unenthusiastic. Oh, yes. Well, no, a regular amount of enthusiasm for a 16-year-old. Because you were like, do you want to do a movie tomorrow? To me and mom. And I was like, yeah. Yeah, sure. Okay. Yeah. And then you're like, I have no idea if she wants to go. And I'm like, I said, yeah. Yes, but it's the tone that matters. It's not what you say. It's how you say it. Exactly. I am a valley girl. We know that. Let's not fight it anymore. So the movie that we went to go and half see was called Mufasa. Was there a second half that I'm not aware of? We didn't actually watch it, so we wouldn't know. Well, we got in there. Now, we've got it down to a fine art, which is that the movie started at 1 p.m. And we got there at like 1.14. No, we got there at 1.07. Sorry, yeah, 1.07. By 1.14, they were just finishing up all of the previews. So we have got it down to a fine art. We know exactly what's going on. Yes.
[1:02] And the previews all seem to suck donkey as well. So then the movie started.
[1:10] Sadly. For a little bit. The movie started and I, as always, I'll say this every time, I'm absolutely amazed at the technology. They've got water scenes. Are you kidding? I thought this actually was bad. No, no. The technology is great. The way they used it was not great. The visuals weren't great. I thought the animation was pretty bad. Go on. It did not look fluid. I saw that one, obviously, probably maybe a higher budget. I don't know.
[1:33] I saw that dinosaur documentary from David Attenborough. Oh, the way back one. We saw this like a year or two ago? Three? Two years ago. It was 2020 or 2022 or something like that. Okay. Way better technology. And the fact that this was done like three or four years later makes me think, huh? No, for you. Yeah. Personally, I thought it was pretty good, but I can certainly understand where you're coming from. Just to me, the amount of water, the fluid dynamics, the fact that they've got all this wet hair. I mean, it's pretty neat for me as far as the technology goes, but, oh, man. Yeah. It's like everything's on the story. Should we turn around and try the other way? The way we came? We could. Because this is like... Yeah, we could. Yeah, so it was a zillion dollars on the technology and zero dollars on the story. Yeah. Like, genuinely, I could have written a better story, bro, and I've only got, like, and they're paying people to do this. I would have done it for free. So, yeah, the way that it seems to work is they think that a story is a series of events. No, not this one. No, no. It is a series of events.
[2:44] So someone gets born. They go to the waterhole because it's raining. And then there's a disaster in the waterhole. And then there's a fight from the white lions. Because, you know, even in lion country, white guys are the bad guys. Yeah. But there are, I think, in fact, white lions. But it's all just like a series of things that happen, but there's no actual story. A story has to have some kind of moral to it, and it's also simplistic and dumbed down. And like, I think, again, the events are important because, sorry, the events are important, but they're supposed to be happening because of a story.
[3:17] Yeah. Like there needs to be a reason more than just, ooh, Reina's cool, as to why he went to the water pool. Maybe he was going to meet, let's say, his friend, or like the opposing lion.
[3:31] The bad guy i assume the guy who grows up to be the bad guy you know what i'm saying right yeah from the other tribe maybe they have like left here what no right now you should yeah 100 got it okay as an example i don't know maybe the two i don't think it's left yeah no it's it's this way okay my apologies because i know we turned right 100 we went down there and then we turned oh yes yes okay even the gbs saying it i know but the gbs is trying to take us the wrong way we turned around because anyway okay so sorry i was saying yeah like the two brothers are again not biological brothers but maybe they have like some friendship going on that they're not allowed to have because the two tribes or whatever right so then that's why he goes to the water to hang out and play with his friend or whatever then he gets swept along and then there's that whole mess like i'm just saying there needs to be some story reason yeah as to why they go there not just oh it looks cool And the story has to have something to do with good or bad choices, because the purpose of art is to get you to rehearse and see the consequences of bad choices or good choices so you can either be discouraged or encouraged from making good or bad choices. Yeah. Ugh, drives me crazy.
[4:42] So, yeah, this was just like, and the parents were just retarded at the beginning because the parents are like, hey, it's the first rain we've had in, what was it, 60 moons. Well, yeah. So five years, really? 60 months? So five years. That usually happens. Okay, I accept that. But then in order for there to be any life in this area, the rain has to be insane. Yeah. Right? It has to be just a complete drench. So the older parents have lived for however many years that they've lived. And apparently they don't know that the water hole gets insanely dangerous when the rains come. No idea. Right? Because and all the animals just go down to drink the water, right? Yeah. And they let their son go into the water or they let him go ahead. And then we don't know because we walked out, but we don't know what happens to the parents. But the kid, you know, half drowns and all of that. And it's just, why? Just don't let your kid run ahead. Keep him close to you and you'll be fine. So, but it wasn't about how inattentive, bad, selfish parents, because they're like the greatest and noblest of parents for no particular reason. They're just that cool? They're just that cool. and they make a terrible decision that either gets, well, it gets really the whole family killed. Because I imagine that a lion cub in the wild dies. Yeah. Right? Can't hunt.
[6:02] Can't do anything. And he just gets eaten, right? Yeah. So they wiped out the entire genetic lineage. The entire family was wiped out because the parents were idiots. Well, I don't know if the parents died. Yes, but... The, like, one-year-old kid died. The last thing we saw was the parents stuck in water looking like they were drowning. And maybe they didn't die. But if they didn't die, it was a complete miracle.
[6:29] So are they good parents or bad parents? Do weird accidental things happen even to good parents? Well, then what's the point of the story? The point is supposed to be if you keep an eye on your kids and don't let them do dangerous stuff. That could be like the basic moral of that part of the story. But they're great parents and they let the kid do stupid stuff. And it seems like just about their whole lineage is wiped out. And what's the moral of the story? There's no moral of the story because they're great parents and just bad things happen. Yeah. So it's all just random, not based upon anyone's choices. The purpose of art shouldn't be to tell you bad stuff happens for no reason. Because everybody knows that. The purpose of art should be don't make bad decisions because these are the consequences.
[7:12] Instead, make good decisions because these are better consequences.
[7:16] Anyway, so then he goes to the new tribe, which has, and everything just felt like an absolute bone-wearying cliche. I felt like I'd seen it all a zillion times before. I mean, you're younger, obviously. No, I have too. But it's like the mother takes in the stray, right? The father. The father doesn't want the stray. Now, who's wrong? The father. The father is wrong. The father is, you see, lazy, right? The father is portrayed as lazy. All he does is nap and so on. And it's like, well, one of the reasons why the males nap is because they are guarding the perimeters against foreign lions. They patrol the outskirts of the pride lands of their own particular tribal lands in order to scare away foreign predators, right? So that's a lot of work. It's kind of dangerous. They don't just lie around doing nothing while the women do all the hunting. That's this like weird big cat feminist cliche.
[8:19] There is something i was trying to remember it i've heard before something about lions hunting that made me surprised i think the females do the majority of it yes that's true but yeah no that is true for sure oh sorry i thought you were saying that wasn't no it's no that is that is true but the males guard the entire it's sort of it's sort of like in in a country or let's say a tribal area in africa or something so the women will do the hunting and gathering for small game and for nuts and fruits or whatever it is, right? But the men are patrolling, making sure other men don't come in and stab and kill everyone at the night. Yeah. Right? So both of them are essential for the survival of the tribe. It's just one is more obvious than the other, which is the women doing the hunting, right? Yeah. So that sort of bothers me. Now, it certainly is true that, as you know, male lions, if they come across a female who already has cubs, they'll kill the cubs, right?
[9:14] So I get all of that. and you can say that that's bad if you want but then you can't say that lions are the kings of the jungle and are noble wonderful creatures yeah because you know that habit not very noble well no you can say it makes sense but it's how they became noble is to destroy the weak the weak the weak right so that's how they become how do you get to be an apex predator not by indulging in the weakest it's by if i relentlessly destroying or dumping or ostracizing the weakest right yeah.
[9:44] But the female sentimentality which is so right and so wonderful and the new cup the stray ends up saving the life of the mother and then the father so the father is totally in the wrong and also the kid has super powers like he can smell an antelope half a mile away or some stupid stuff just some psychic nonsense.
[10:05] So the idea that they become the kings of the jungle and that the fathers are idiots yeah or because the first father loses his kid and the second father doesn't want to stray but the women are all wise and wonderful and loving and caring and great and the males are just you know pig-headed or ignorant or foolish or i mean that's just you know kind of or violent of course in the case of the white lion tribe yeah and sorry is there something else you want to add no no so the other thing too oh my gosh so every time you know kids like lions right now why do they're like lions because they're big, strong, powerful, and they look cool. They do look cool. They look absolutely. They're like big dogs. Yeah. They look absolutely cool. Although, obviously, way, way too much in it, right? So. Bias. I don't know what you're talking about.
[10:56] So when the lions are going down to the watering hole, all of the other animals... I'm so chill with it. They're not bothered by it at all. Now, I was questioning... Oh, there's ducks. Sorry. I was questioning, does that happen in the animated version? Because I know you like the animated. I wasn't sure if that was something... Animated version was great, in my opinion. Were they also like that? No. Oh, so in the animated version, the cruelty is delegated to the lower animals like the hyenas. Right. In the animated version, all of the animals kneel before the king, but they're not chill around the lions. Not that I remember. No, probably not, right? Because I remember they all go, or the scenes I've seen, it's the lions at the very top and they're separated. Like he couldn't jump down and hunt them. He'd have to run down. They'd know. Right.
[11:46] Yeah, this is Pride Rock. He holds up his son and all of that, right? It seems to be a big thing nowadays. I remember we watched that one, The Wild Robot or whatever. Animals are just like, what's a pecking order?
[11:58] Or not pecking order, but what's Apex Predator? Now, can you imagine that the animals would be celebrating the birth of a new lion? Oh, my God. Like when the giraffe saved him from drowning? Oh, yes. In this movie, the baby lion is drowning and the giraffe helps and saves him. Bro, that guy's going to kill you. Yeah. So it's the same thing in the first one, right? So in the first one, I just figured that Mufasa was a tyrant and they just had to bow down before him because otherwise he'd eat them. That was sort of my explanation, right? Appease the brute dictator, right?
[12:29] But it's to me, I was thinking about this in the movie because there wasn't much to think about in the movie. So I was thinking about it in the audience that in the past. So the stories that I was raised with were like the Grimm's Brothers fairy tales. Oh, my God. Yeah. Now, those things, they're a little psycho. They're messed up. I love watching the videos about them and stuff because it's like, bruh.
[12:51] But they do teach you something about danger in the world. Yeah. So, you know, you think of Hansel and Gretel and you think, okay, so they just go wandering in the woods, right? Don't do that. Yeah, don't go wandering in the woods, right? And if there are strangers- Nowadays, it would be like, and they found paradise with all the birds. Yeah, and they were taken into a windowless van to joy itself, right? So I found it strange to me. Like in the Hansel and Gretel, it is, even if things are tough at home, right? Cause they have this mean stepmom, I think. So even if things are tough at home, you're better off at home than out in the woods. And also if some stranger offers you candy. Don't take it. Don't take it. Right. Don't take it. So, so that's, that's a good rule. Like that's a good rule to live by and that's helpful. Right.
[13:36] So it gives you something of value, right? A wolf in the red, the red riding hood around the, the wolf. That people who can appear to be friendly, like your grandmother, might actually eat you. So you have to look beyond the appearance to look at the dangerous personality within. That's a good lesson, right? Yeah. I grew up on like- We did those stories. We did those stories, but I grew up on like more toned down versions. Yes, yes, for sure. But yeah, I definitely think we need to bring back, like kids need to stop being so sheltered. There's all this stuff where it's like, oh, the cute, the nice, the sweet. And it's like, that is not how the world works. Well- And I think it's good. Obviously you don't want like a trauma.
[14:15] Like, I think there's a certain point, maybe five or six, where it's like, okay, you got to stop showing them all of that and not like start showing them like World War II documentaries. But I mean, like movies that are a little or media that is a little more realistic and actually has morals and values and stuff like that. I don't know. That's my opinion.
[14:33] But well, there were a couple of times in your childhood where you got to see some nature. Oh, yeah. I'm thinking of two in particular. I'm thinking of the toad. Yeah. We had chickens. We had two bantam chickens, and they were pretty young.
[14:48] And I found a toad, and it was a cool-looking toad. Like, it wasn't like the regular ones. Did you love toads? I loved, actually, I absolutely love toads. But I found a cool-looking one on the corner of our, like, house. And I was like, that's really cool. And I'm about to pick it up. And I think usually when I bent down, the bantam chickens associated that with food. So they went up and they took the toad. And I was actually... Well, they took the toad. They ripped it in two. Well, that's what I mean. They took it. They totally T-Rexed it, right? Well, they took it and I was chasing them and they were chasing each other for like five minutes and like just ripping it apart. And I was, I still genuinely have like a raised heartbeat telling it. Oh, it was horrible. Because that freaked me out. Yeah, because there's something that you love. There's two things that you love. I'm just watching it get like absolutely mutilated and stuff. Like actually like messed me up, bro. For like solid two weeks, I would not go outside and associate with those chickens. Yeah. But. It was highly offensive, highly upsetting. Obviously, like, I don't, personally, if it were up to me, I would not have gone through that.
[15:47] But, I mean, it's, I, like, what are you going to do? Like, it's nature's nature. Nature's nature. And they are dinosaurs. And then, I mean, they got the revenge when the hawk took the bantam chicken. Would you like to tell that story as well? I don't really remember it because I think I was out when it happened. Well, we never saw it happen. They went in our neighbor's yard. They went through, they went into the woods for some reason. Like, I don't, like, why did you do that? But they go to the woods end up in our neighbor's yard because we have like a very small stretch of woods between us yeah like genuinely like 10 steps and you're through it yeah and we got back and they're like yeah so we saw a hawk yeah i wasn't too upset about that well you didn't see it first of all and i didn't i hated those chickens because again was it just because of the toad or it was shortly after that and that was genuinely like i was six or something like that was like i would say at that age like literally traumatic like watching this toe just get ripped apart bro, so i wasn't too upset about that i was more disappointed but it was like okay and then the other one are you thinking of the same thing with the chickens and the dogs so i'm thinking of one other one than that but go ahead the other one we had this were not the band of chickens these were different chickens yeah we had our neighbor's dogs get into our yard i was out we have like these little window sills that kind of look into the basement they're like really small little windows at the bottom. I think everyone.
[17:09] We had those and I was out there. Toads used to hide in those all the time. And I would try and take them out because if they jumped into that hole or whatever it was, I don't even know. But they couldn't get out. So I would take the toads out and stuff.
[17:22] And I was out there and there's this giant dog that just runs at me. And they have these giant huskies. Yeah, they were scary dogs. And my brain was like wolf. Obviously it wasn't. And it was like even right after I thought it, I was like rationalizing that is not a wolf. We do not have a wolf here. And then I had this feeling that you carrying a bunch of ketchup packets in your pocket. Naomi, go on. Right. I'm running inside. I'm screaming. I've had really bad experiences with dogs up to that age. Like I can think of three or four things that happened before. I was also five. I think it was five this year. We had the band of chickens the next summer. Yeah. And anyways, I'm inside. Our chickens are still outside. I'm freaking out. My mom's like, there's dogs, giant dogs in our yard. My mom's like, that's a wolf. And I'm like, no, it's not. She just blurted it, right? It obviously wasn't. Mom's always wanted to help not escalate panic. Yeah, of course. And then we pause and freak out because we realize the chickens are still out there. Yep. Fortunately, all the chickens made it. One of them got bit pretty bad. We found chicken feathers and we were just like, oh, honey, you might want to go inside. Well, we looked for the chicken. Yeah, and I did. And we ended up finding her in the bushes. Yeah, and she was limping, but she made it. She was bit pretty bad, missing like a whole chunk of feathers on her back, but she was okay. Yeah, she's fine.
[18:42] But that was the other one. What was the other one you had? So the other one was when we were on vacation. The cat getting the lizard? Yes. I wouldn't say that was too bad. Like if I had, I'm going to make an example. I was a little older. I did cry because I really wanted to catch the lizard and I still like lizards. Yes, but you like lizards and cats. Yeah, I think I was nine at swimming. That was maybe a bit immature. But I was if I had had like the chickens when I was five or six, if they had just taken like a little baby toad and eaten it in one bite, I'd be devastated. But I would not have been like watching it get.
[19:14] I just remember, I have all these images in my head burned in there. It was gross. But it was not the same as watching the cat grab the lizard from 10 feet away. Right, right. Not the same. And I think the cat just basically got down the lizard, right? But it wasn't like it was pulling off all the skin and stuff like that. Yeah, yeah. Taking the arms off and stuff. It wasn't like torture. It was just gone. Yeah. That went off a bit far. Yeah. But it was a bit of a tangent. No, no, it's not a tangent because you got to see that there's nature. And nature is, we can say cruel, but it doesn't really matter because nature is nature. Animals eat each other.
[19:52] So all of this thing where you never see the lions eat anyone and they're all just super nice and friendly and chill and everyone's just hanging out. It's like, it's training children that there are not predators. There are no dangers in the world other than maybe occasional natural dangers or these weird white wolves or something like that. So I don't like this loving all the kids sense of security and not having kids be trained because the lions are learning how to fight as cubs. Right. And so you should be learning that there's there are cruel things in the world. There are evil people who make bad decisions. Now, you can go too far with this, as in the case of Pinocchio.
[20:26] Pinocchio, when I watched that as a kid, that was pretty appalling as far as dangers went. Right. But or even Alice, Alice can be a little creepy. I loved Alice in Wonderland as a kid. I didn't know much about it because you guys didn't really know. Oh, but I saw the movie was... Yeah, no, I knew the concept of the story, and I've seen some scenes from it. I thought it was really cool. But now I'm in it. Now you're in it. That's right. So, yeah, this movie, the reason I gave up on it was I actually decided to just get really sleepy and bored, even with all of the stimulus, the music. Me too, bro. I was done. I was like, I got a Discord message. I'm like, oh. The songs were just terrible, too. I thought there was one that was decent, but I couldn't remember. Was it the one where they were talking about Paradise? No, it was the one with the bad guys, I think.
[21:07] I do like a little bit of the self-references, like talking about the song that everyone sang for six years straight and we can't sing this one because of the lawyers. Like, I think that's kind of clever and funny. Oh, I didn't actually even hear that. Yeah. I was listening. Like, I wasn't on my phone at that point, I think, but it was the... Yeah. I just got really bored because it was just a whole sequence of things. They were cut out, cardboard, cliched characters, and nobody had any... It was all just a bunch of accidents. And like, even if... See, here's the thing too. If the woman had said that the female had said to the husband under the big tree, you just lays around and he's like, no, no, no, I'm out there guarding the perimeter, right? And then he'd come back and said, look, we've got lions coming. We have to escape or something. Then she'd be like, okay, well, it makes sense what you're doing. I'm sorry. I doubted you. But it's nothing like that, right? There's never anything like that.
[21:52] So, yeah, I just, this would definitely be a. Do not watch. Do not watch. Worst $20 of our life. Yes, that hurt. And it was like it was extracted from my kidney through my spleen. Through your spleen. Wow. Yeah. Adding a whole extra level of pain. I'm pleasant. Anyway, let's go get a snack and feel better. Heck yeah. Thanks everyone. FreeDomain.com slash tonight. Bye. Bye.
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