0:11 - Understanding My Feelings
1:40 - Exploring Relationship History
4:35 - Navigating Physical Attraction
8:25 - Discussing Body Image
10:59 - Values and Morals
13:57 - The Truth About Lies
18:07 - Family Dynamics
24:01 - Meeting the Families
31:25 - Wedding Planning Dilemmas
34:15 - Confronting Relationship Issues
40:27 - The Trouble with Exes
49:01 - Reflecting on Marriage
55:47 - Evaluating Compatibility
1:06:10 - The Pressure of Expectations
1:09:26 - Regrets and Realizations
1:13:02 - Compromises in Relationships
1:22:14 - Costs and Benefits of Choices
1:51:46 - Marriage and Expectations
1:52:05 - Coping with Past Relationships
1:53:26 - Boundaries and Personal Space
2:00:02 - Assessing Relationship Happiness
2:07:56 - Conflict Resolution Skills
2:13:02 - Seeking Help and Support
2:31:36 - Managing Anxiety in Marriage
2:42:23 - Closing Thoughts and Future Steps
In this episode, I engage in a deep and insightful discussion with a caller navigating the complexities of her early marriage to a man with a tumultuous sexual history. The caller expresses her feelings of inadequacy and jealousy stemming from her husband’s past relationships, particularly in light of her Catholic upbringing where premarital sexual experience was a significant concern. Throughout our conversation, I guide her through understanding her emotions and examining the foundation of her marriage.
We explore their whirlwind relationship, which escalated quickly from meeting in February to engagement within two months and marriage by September. The caller describes her husband as caring and respectful but grapples with feelings of resentment and distrust due to his admitted sexual history and lack of transparency regarding his previous relationships. Emotional turmoil has escalated to the point of affecting their intimacy, as she often struggles with feelings of not being special in his eyes.
The caller reveals that her husband exhibits signs of possible depression, leading to decreased sexual desire, a dynamic that leaves her frustrated. We discuss how her past experiences and her husband's lack of commitment to honesty have created a rift in their newfound relationship. The crucial topic shifts to how they communicate and resolve conflicts, which often leads to emotional outbursts and binding threats of divorce.
I emphasize the importance of understanding one another's backgrounds and views on intimacy and marriage. The need for couples counseling arises as a potential solution for their ongoing disputes, yet her husband seems resistant to the idea of external help. We examine the calling patterns within their arguments, noting that past trauma can resurface in conflict situations and the growing divide it creates.
Throughout our dialogue, I outline the responsibilities both partners have in maintaining a healthy emotional state and how insecurity can manifest in demanding changes from one’s partner rather than understanding the root of those insecurities. The discussion pivots toward creating healthier communication patterns, where the caller can express her feelings without placing the burdens of her anxiety on her husband.
The caller's journey is one of self-discovery and growth, learning that her happiness is tied to how she perceives her worth within the context of her marriage. Ultimately, I encourage her to confront issues of loyalty, past baggage, and emotional management, allowing her to regain agency in her relationship rather than succumbing to perpetual frustration.
By the end of our conversation, there's a sense of hope as we discuss strategies for better communication and the possibility of rebuilding their marriage on firmer ground. The episode highlights crucial themes of understanding, trust, and the complexities that arise from blending different life experiences in marriage.
[0:00] So I wrote, hello Stefan, I'm in my early 20s with a Catholic background and was a virgin when I met my future husband who had a chaotic sexual past with toxic women.
[0:12] I need your help to better understand myself. His sexual past is bothering me often when I think about it or when he is telling me about it. I will then imagine it, understand results with not wanting to show my husband affection, unhappiness, mood change. And then I feel contempt for him, even though he did those things before me and treats me good, loving and with great respect. Beside one story with a woman, those imaginations hurt a lot. And I will have thoughts like I'm not special and only a number. I know that I'm compared to some exes and also do it by myself when I got to know his friends and also his female friend denied to me that they were friends with benefits and once later he told me the truth without repent and seriousness I was very hurt he then said that I would have been better that it would have been better not to tell the truth because then.
[1:16] He wouldn't have such problems with which still wounds me. This showed me that he doesn't have the virtues of honesty and repentance, but then other times he has. He then wanted to invite us to our wedding. The imagination, lack of respect and the shame of his want led to many arguments and almost breaking of our engagement.
[1:41] this story that the thoughts like he doesn't love me i'm not the number one he doesn't respect and honor me and my family my husband now has a likely depression a depressing face where he isn't showing much sexual desire when i want to have sex he just doesn't feel like it yesterday he said that one of the reasons is that i'm too much sexually available in the past he needed to earn sex from his partner's heart or it was scarce and not like with me sometimes it feels like he would want to change my character and my thinking like he wouldn't like all of me it would be nice if i I could talk to you, Stefan, do I have unrealistic views? And do I exaggerate and take things too serious? I'm thankful for all things I learned from you and hope you can help me.
[2:41] Well, I appreciate that. It's a tough situation. I sympathize with you enormously. And maybe you can tell me a little bit about the history of your relationship with your husband.
[2:55] The history of our relationship, I mean... We met last year in February, got engaged very quickly. I think it would have been after two months. And then in September, we got married.
[3:19] Is he older?
[3:22] Yes. Yes, I'm in my early 20s and he's in his early 30s.
[3:28] Ah, okay. And did you meet through church or some other place?
[3:34] We met in real life. No, not in church.
[3:41] Okay, and what was it that drew you to him?
[3:44] Oh he was very muscular um and yes he was a funny guy and, people respected him a lot and yes um he seemed very nice to chat and was funny and to joking, yes okay.
[4:17] And how tall is he.
[4:20] Um Only maybe 10 centimeters, not very much taller than I am.
[4:29] Okay. And would you say that he's very good looking to you?
[4:35] He is overweight.
[4:37] Ah, okay.
[4:39] So when we met, I wasn't interested in any sexual way. way i just was bored and was sitting there and thought hey it seems like a funny guy or maybe yes because yeah maybe i just yeah i just was bored and thought i could talk to him, and yes i mean his character is very attractive but he's overweight i mean he has a pretty face but the overweight stuff was a very big issue at the beginning for me. Yes.
[5:25] And you're not overweight, is that right?
[5:29] No, I'm not.
[5:31] Okay. So you said that people respect him, and when I ask these questions, I'm not doubting you. I just want to make sure I understand what you mean. So what is it that people respect about your husband?
[5:52] He has, where he works, he has much to say, and he can organize things very well. And... is oh wait um yes i mean he can also organize things very well um he's his speeches are very great and he makes very good events um so he's a kind of public figure and, And he works very hard. And he's also very passionate about his job. So, yeah, that's the things that people respect.
[6:50] Okay, I appreciate that. And how long did it take after you met, because you had hesitations because of the weight and maybe the age difference, But how long did it take after you met that you began to find him sexually attractive?
[7:08] I mean, it was so that the first time where we met, I told him that the overweight thing is that it's a big issue for me. And he said, I mean, we can just meet for a date and see how it goes. Maybe we like each other, maybe not. And I would say that after the first date and a couple of calls about what's in here, and a couple of calls, it wasn't a big issue for me anymore.
[7:57] And how overweight is he?
[8:02] Um i mean he weighs 100 and um over 100 kilos um for his type of figure um he could lose 30 kilograms, oh okay so gosh.
[8:18] What is that i always get i always get kilometers to miles and pounds.
[8:21] Is it 2.2.
[8:23] Kilograms so he's.
[8:24] Like 220 pounds.
[8:25] Something like that.
[8:26] 130 kilograms, pounds i think one pound is uh half a kilogram or isn't it i don't i'm not yeah one.
[8:38] Kilogram is 2.2 pounds i actually did have that right okay so uh so he's uh if he's if he's 100 kilograms he's 220 pounds uh.
[8:47] Yes he's 130 kilograms.
[8:50] Oh he's 130 kilograms yes oh gosh.
[8:56] If he would lose 30 kilograms, everything would be all right, because his shoulders are very, how would you say it?
[9:10] He's almost 300 pounds!
[9:12] Yes.
[9:13] And he's not tall.
[9:16] No, but very muscular.
[9:19] Muscular, hang on, hang on. So is he heavy because he's muscular?
[9:26] He is muscular, but has also belly fat, but also he has broad shoulders.
[9:38] So he's big boned.
[9:40] Yes, yes.
[9:41] He's big boned, he's got some muscles, and he's fat. Okay, okay, I just, I got it, I got it, okay. all right so you went on a couple of dates and you found yourself was it what was it that you found particularly positive or charming about him.
[10:00] Oh his character um i could um yeah i mean we could talk very easily it was a lot of fun and also politically um we are on the same side And also when it comes to our future plans, it was also very similar, almost the same, I would say. And yes, I mean, he's a smart man. His jokes are very great. And he was very mature. And yeah, I mean, a lot of things just fit. I mean, he can't dress very well, he's intelligent, and yeah, you can talk very good with him.
[10:59] Now, these are all nice attributes, but they're not quite the same as morals.
[11:07] Oh, you asked about morals. Okay, he can be very... Okay. so after we dated and I got to know him I also saw what moral values he had and he was, what's um, Sorry, I lost a word.
[11:39] No, listen, it's no problem. Take your time. I mean, it's tough stuff to talk about, for sure, and I sympathize. Also, I know the language barrier is a challenge, but I admire anyone who speaks another language, so you can take your time on that as well.
[11:54] Okay. I mean, he was very... What moral values did he have? he was at that time I thought honest I mean with 98% and in 98% of the time he is honest, helpful also loving and, sympathy, yes yeah I would say that's the things.
[12:34] Okay, so honesty and sympathy?
[12:39] Yes, sympathy, but also not all the time, maybe also only in 98% of the time.
[12:48] Well, I mean, honesty is good, but one of the problems you have is that he's been honest about his dating history, right?
[12:56] Yes. So the honesty.
[13:00] Shows a certain lack of empathy.
[13:02] Um yeah in a kind of way you are right it was so that when we dated example i asked him how high is your body count um and he said that it was only six and after engagement, told me the truth, and it was a little bit higher. And I'm very, oh, what's the word? Wait, I need to...
[13:38] So, hang on. Sorry, you said that his character was that he was honest.
[13:43] Oh, and I'm also a very curious character, and I will ask a lot of questions.
[13:48] All right, hang on, hang on, hang on. Sorry, so you said that one of his qualities was that he was honest. But he lied about his body count.
[13:58] Yes, I know. I know. So that's my problem.
[14:02] Well, no, but he lied before you got married.
[14:05] Yes.
[14:06] Okay.
[14:07] Before we got engaged and so on.
[14:10] Sorry, was it after you got engaged, right?
[14:13] Oh, it was so that before our engagement, I knew that the number was higher, but he didn't want to tell me. but he didn't want to tell me and after we got engaged and after a party he told me when he was drunk, yeah I mean he didn't want to make a bad impression on me and scare me off so, I mean yeah I mean sorry to.
[14:48] Interrupt How long into the relationship, after you started dating, or more than just the first couple of dates, like after you started becoming actually romantically interested in him, how long did you first begin to know that his body count was higher than he had said?
[15:09] Must have been one month and maybe two weeks.
[15:17] Oh, so like six weeks, right?
[15:21] Yeah, probably.
[15:22] Okay, so six weeks into dating him, you find out that he lies about... I mean, these are very important things, right?
[15:32] Yes.
[15:33] Okay, so once you found out that he was lying, why did you continue? And I don't mean this to be critical. I'm genuinely curious, like, why, if he's a liar, if he's bearing false witness, right? Is he also Catholic? Is he Christian?
[15:51] I mean... He studied religion and wanted to become a priest and so on, but no, not really.
[16:11] Oh, so wait, he's not religious?
[16:14] Um he's interested i mean he was interested in that but he's not the type of religious person that goes to church and prays.
[16:26] Okay sorry let's just i need things to be a little simpler please okay so okay is he religious um he no okay that's i i'm not trying to corner you But it can't be that complicated a question.
[16:46] Yeah, you're right.
[16:48] Okay, so when did you find out that he wasn't religious?
[16:58] The very beginning. You need to know that I'm also not very religious. I mean, I come from a Catholic background, But I may be going only once in a month to church Well.
[17:18] But you believe in God, I assume And you are a Christian, but you don't attend church that much Or is there another way that you would put it? That's right Okay, so you're religious, but not very institutional Not much institution but does he believe in God, or Jesus does he believe in salvation does he believe in prayer these sorts of things.
[17:47] It's maybe 50-50 sorry, I mean if you would ask him if there is God I think he would answer you with yes.
[18:02] You don't know Okay, how long have you known him overall?
[18:07] One year, almost one year.
[18:10] So you've known him for a year, and you've not asked him if he believes in God?
[18:16] I asked him that. I mean, it's religion, and it's a little bit complicated.
[18:30] No, it's not. I mean, he may not give a clear answer, but it's not that complicated. yes giving.
[18:37] Not the answers is a thing by with him.
[18:40] Well i mean but complicated and confusing answers are usually a sign of manipulation okay i mean for simple for simple things right do you believe in god i mean do you believe in a higher power that is immortal and all-knowing that's not super complicated right i mean it may take different forms maybe you have slightly different perceptions of how it manifests or so on, but do you believe in God is not that complicated.
[19:09] I mean, I think he would answer this question with a yes, and then he would also say that, maybe yes, but he's not very sure of that.
[19:25] Well, no, but you can't say, yes, I believe in God, and I'm not very sure of it. Right?
[19:33] Yes. I mean, if someone would ask me this question, I would easily say yes.
[19:40] Sure. Now, you could say I'm an agnostic, which is I don't have an opinion on the existence of God. But I'm not sure what position he takes. Like, what is his actual position?
[19:57] Mixed I would say but hmm.
[20:11] Okay, that's fine. I was just wondering, so how long, sorry, remind me, how long did you guys know each other before you got married?
[20:22] It would have been, yes, six and a half months.
[20:30] Okay, and do you know why, did you want to get married more quickly or did he want to get married more quickly or how did that go?
[20:39] We both wanted to get married quickly and.
[20:42] Why is that.
[20:47] I mean yeah I mean I wanted I mean we both, loved each other and he I mean he wanted to have a wife I wanted to have a husband, it we had I mean he just he had a history with not very committed relationships and one relationship that went on for six years without any, real commitment and he just wanted to make, yes how would you say I mean, It was so that why should we waste time or play marriage if we could just get married, you know?
[21:53] Well, I mean, but you know the reason why it's sometimes worth waiting a little bit, because you have to get to know the person better. Because people can put up a false front, right? they can pretend to be one way and they're actually not that way yes and and this guy had red flags because if he's very charming and very funny, and still single in his early 30s that's a warning flag and also if he's had a six year relationship without any commitment and he's had a high body count, that's another red flag right yeah so it would be to try and figure out what his character was what his personality was rather than what he presented himself as if that makes sense hmm, yeah, Okay, so what did your family think of him?
[23:01] So, I need to know that my mother is very Catholic and my father not.
[23:14] Sorry, your mother is very Catholic and your father is not Catholic?
[23:19] Yes.
[23:20] Then she's not very Catholic.
[23:22] I mean, she's not.
[23:26] Because if you marry a man who's not Catholic, then you can't be very Catholic.
[23:34] It was so that she got Catholic later in life when one of my brothers was born. So when they met and started dating, they were both. I would say, yeah, on the paper, Catholics, but nothing more.
[24:02] And why did your mother become more Catholic when your brother was born?
[24:08] Because she had a hard time giving birth to him. And yeah, but at the end, it worked. because this was her third birth. Her two first births were with a C-section and she wanted to give birth like a normal woman. And it was very hard, but at the end it worked with my brother. That was the reason.
[24:41] I'm sorry she she became catholic or she became.
[24:47] More catholic.
[24:47] Because she had natural childbirth.
[24:49] I mean i would say what does that mean i don't know what that means and maybe not catholic but she started to believe in in god because um yeah she would say that he helped him give birth to my brother.
[25:10] Ah, okay. Alright, so she became more religious... Because God helped her give birth.
[25:17] Yes.
[25:18] Okay. And your father did not become more religious. Is that right?
[25:24] No. My father will maybe only go once a year at Christmas to the church, but nothing more.
[25:36] Right.
[25:36] I mean, yes. Yes, he, if I would ask him if there is God, I think he would also answer yes, but he never read, I mean, I mean, he was never so much interested in religion that he would read the Bible or something like this.
[26:04] Sorry, he was or wasn't so much interested in religion?
[26:08] He wasn't so much.
[26:09] Okay, so he wouldn't read the Bible or anything?
[26:12] No.
[26:13] Okay. And so your mother became much more Catholic, your father remains agnostic, like he doesn't really have much of an opinion, but he'll go once a year?
[26:26] Yeah.
[26:27] Okay. So what did they think of, I'm going to call him Dieter, your husband.
[26:33] Okay.
[26:34] So what did they think of Dieter when you were dating him?
[26:40] Okay, when I was dating him, I mean, when I was dating him, I told my parents very much of our dates. and, they they had oh yeah I think the only thing that my mother had to criticize was that he's an only child, and I think my father criticized nothing and.
[27:17] Um yeah okay now you have uh you have two siblings.
[27:26] Um no more.
[27:28] Okay i.
[27:30] Have six siblings.
[27:32] You have six siblings okay and where are you in the birth order.
[27:36] I'm the oldest.
[27:38] Okay and how many girls are there five five girls wow okay all right, So, would your parents say, especially because you're a young woman, do you think your parents would agree with the statement that it is important for parents to do some sort of review or vetting, they would do some sort of vetting on who's coming into the family through marriage?
[28:12] I mean I think they would answer with yes but, when I introduced my future husband to them, I will tell you how my mother, was in that evening she wasn't really there she was in the kitchen and not really, sitting by the table and asking questions or anything I mean I would say she, you would also say that she ignored him, most of the time and my father was sitting at the table and they were talking about politics and joking and but there wasn't there were no questions like.
[29:19] Who are your parents? Or what do you want with our daughter? Or how do you think your future will look like? There wasn't nothing like that. And I had a talk with my mother, I criticized my mother about that, because I thought that she doesn't care about me when she isn't curious about the man that I bring to the home to introduce him. Yeah, so that was it.
[30:03] Okay. And I suppose if you're the oldest and still in your early 20s, there's not much that your brothers would do to vet this guy.
[30:11] No, I have. The oldest brother is 16 years old, so no.
[30:18] And what about grandparents?
[30:21] Oh, they live in another country and also weren't so much curious. I mean, my grand, I have only two grandpas. one grandma is artistic the other is very catholic and she only asked yeah is he catholic no he isn't catholic he's he was a protestant and isn't anymore um on the paper a protestant this was a big deal for her because how are you going to raise the kids in which religious direction, Yeah, nothing more. And also, my uncle didn't ask such questions like you would probably ask when your daughter would bring a guy home. Yeah.
[31:25] Okay, well, I'm certainly sorry for that. And what happened when you meant to meet his family, Dieter's family?
[31:31] Oh yeah that's another story um i met his father i think one month after that we started dating of yeah he wasn't curious he just asked what um uh what i'm doing and, and how yeah and maybe how much siblings I have and what are my parents do and that was it and this mother for example who lives, nearby only 20 minutes it takes only 20 minutes with the car, she I got to know her only two days before the wedding.
[32:24] Wow okay one reason um my husband would say that yeah the reason for this wasn't only her fault it was also my fault because i um had a lot of time and yeah um and i mean there were other dates that he choose with his mother to, yeah that I could meet her but very spontaneously, it didn't work out so at the end I got to know her two days before the wedding, I would say yeah his parents don't really care what he's doing in life.
[33:19] Okay, and why didn't you call me.
[33:30] Hmm, You know, I thought about calling you when this thing with this one female friend. When I got to know the truth, I thought about calling you.
[33:52] So you mean the truth about his friend who he slept with, who he wanted to come to the wedding?
[33:58] Yes.
[33:58] Okay.
[33:59] I thought about calling you, but probably at the end of the day, I thought that maybe I'm exaggerating and take this too serious.
[34:16] Okay. All right. So when did you first begin to notice real problems in the relationship?
[34:27] Um yeah i would say when i realized that he wasn't um honest when i um yeah when i when he told me the truth about this friends with benefits woman, yeah and.
[34:50] That was before so that was.
[34:52] Before you got married right yes this must have been one maybe three weeks after we got engaged.
[35:03] Okay so tell me a little bit about what what happened i mean i've got the general outline but more details.
[35:10] Yes i mean it was so that i met her two times because i was taught uh before i was told the truth and when i first met her i was told yeah this is um can i give her a name uh let's.
[35:31] Just uh give a uh another name.
[35:34] Uh okay i will call her emma emma okay good yeah Yeah, Emma. So the first time when I met Emma, we were sitting on the sofa and I tried to talk to her, but she was very, yeah, she, how would you say, a person who doesn't like to talk. Yeah. I need the word.
[36:09] Oh, represent or shy or something like that.
[36:12] Yes, shy.
[36:13] Okay.
[36:14] Yes. I mean, she was very shy. And after a while, maybe after one hour or so, I asked her if she and Gita, if they had in the past sex. And both of them denied that. Yeah, and then I saw her a second time and blah, blah, blah. And yes, three weeks after we got engaged, I and Stita, we went to a funeral and funerals in Germany. They are like an event where people at the end eat and drink a lot. and yeah I have yeah and Steve have heard that I'm.
[37:09] Yeah that I could yeah that this truth, wouldn't be a problem to me and he just, yeah I mean we were outside he had I think his beer in his hand and just oh yeah we were talking with two other friends and we had the topic about sex and friends and friends with benefits and blah blah and I then asked him again if he really had any sex with a friend with Emma right, not especially with Emma just for curiosity just friends as a whole yeah just said yeah, and he just looks at me with the beer in the hand and says to me yeah what do you think with whom I had sex with yeah with Emma and I just saw and yeah I was watching him and realized that he wasn't honest.
[38:17] Right okay, and what happened after that.
[38:23] Um, I'm also... I made a very big scene. I mean, what do you mean a very big scene? It was a new topic between me and him and on the funeral between those two other friends. I mean, I didn't want to make too much of a scene because of the funeral, because the friend's mother died. But yeah, there was a lot of discussion and it didn't end by that day.
[39:18] Okay, and so tell me a little bit more about the scene in more detail.
[39:26] I mean, I was very hurt and... Yeah, I mean, we were standing there, I, Dieter and the two other friends and I was very disappointed of Dieter and told him why and, was, how would you say very shocked and yeah I mean I was shocked that I was so much lied because Well.
[40:13] Because Emma also was going to come to your wedding right?
[40:17] Yes this was another point And later on in that conversation, I said, but this woman will never come to our wedding.
[40:28] And he said, yes, she will. And then it wasn't only...
[40:32] Oh, sorry. I'm sorry. That's a big thing. So after he admitted that he lied to you about having sex with Emma...
[40:39] He admitted that he lied. He just, I mean, he could also, there was no repentance. Now, I need to tell you the truth. I lied in the past. Oh, I said my name.
[40:50] It's all right. I'll take it out.
[40:52] Okay. Sorry. I mean, he could have showed a little bit of repentance and, yeah, say sorry. And yeah, I'm so sorry I lied to you in the past. I want to tell you the truth and so on. But there was just, yeah, what do you think with whom I slept? Yeah, with Emma. um, You know, there was no repentance.
[41:27] Okay.
[41:28] No apology.
[41:30] Got it. Okay. All right.
[41:35] And, yeah, then...
[41:37] So, sorry, did you talk to any friends or family about Dieter's lying and his lack of repentance?
[41:48] Yes. Yes, I talked to almost all of my friends and to his friends. And later on, yeah, I mean, then after a couple of months, yeah, no, maybe one month before the wedding, I... No, no. So somewhere in the summer, I told it to my mother and she only said, yeah, no, that's not going to happen. This woman can't come to the wedding. And month before the wedding, I told it also to my father because I had a fight with Dieter and I'm about that topic. and i was very hurt and cried and my father saw that and he then asked yeah what's wrong, um yeah what happened and i just couldn't hold it anyone told him the truth, you know and my father said, then maybe don't marry him.
[43:15] Okay. And what, did your mother say anything?
[43:21] No. I mean, she would just say, yeah, how can he think about something hideous like this? It's not going to happen.
[43:35] Okay. So your mother said don't marry him as well?
[43:40] No. My father did.
[43:44] Your father? I'm sorry, I must have missed a heard, what did your mother say?
[43:49] My mother, she didn't give me any advice. She just said, you know, this woman can't come to the wedding.
[44:02] Right.
[44:03] That it's, yeah, no, there is no, there's no logical explanation, only emotional only emotional arguments emotional reasons because yeah maybe some other people don't have a problem with when a former sexual partner of the husband comes to the wedding but I have but, Dieter didn't care about that.
[44:44] Right, okay. Okay, got it. So, is it fair to say that most people understood what you were upset about, and at least some people, including your father, said maybe it's better not to marry him?
[44:59] It was only my father who had this opinion. I mean, my husband would say, yeah, don't be so stiff, it's normal, it's normal that people in their friend cycle, that they are, for example, friends with, yeah, that's, I mean, he's a German and he would say that, yeah, in Germany, it's normal that friends have sex with friends and then after a while they're not together and then they have sex with another friend and such things. I'm not a German.
[45:58] Sorry, you're not a German?
[46:01] No. No, I'm not.
[46:03] Okay. All right. And so did you consider not marrying him?
[46:11] Yes. And yes, we considered it. And after we had, I mean, when we have a fight, I would say we both are able to say things that we both regret at the end or don't really mean it. I don't really mean. And one month before we got married, we had a fight about the phone and Dieter said that, yeah, maybe we should just don't get married. break off the engagement because I just wanted to accept this woman on our wedding.
[47:15] But your issue was that he lied, wasn't it? Mostly.
[47:22] Yeah, mostly, yeah. I mean, I also said that.
[47:25] And sorry to interrupt, but then your issue became that he showed no regret for his lying, and he wouldn't even admit that he lied, right?
[47:33] Yes, he would just say, yeah, it wasn't lying because I just didn't tell you that. But that's not true, because I asked both of them on the sofa when I first met her if they had sex with each other.
[47:54] No, no, but sorry, and it doesn't matter. Lying by omission is the worst form of lying, because it doesn't leave any marks.
[48:02] Yes, I mean, if you just, I mean...
[48:06] Like, sorry, let me just be clear. Let me be clear about this. you can't have a relationship with someone who works on what could be called technicalities. So if somebody ever says, well, technically, I didn't actually lie to you directly because I never, like, that is not the spirit of honesty. That is somebody who can make up any excuse and call any bad action anything they want, right?
[48:34] Yes.
[48:35] Okay, got it.
[48:36] Yes.
[48:38] Okay. All right, so he lied about it, and then he would not admit that he lied, he did not have any conscience or any negative feelings, he didn't feel guilty, or he didn't express any guilt or remorse, or anything like that, and those were the major issues, right?
[49:00] Yes.
[49:02] So, how was this resolved? I mean, why did you get married?
[49:10] So, it's, I mean, at the end, he just accepted that this woman wouldn't come to the wedding.
[49:21] No, but that wasn't the issue. It wasn't, the issue was not whether she came or not. That wasn't the issue, right? So that doesn't, that doesn't resolve anything. And I'm sure he said something like, fine, if it's so important for you, I won't bring him if, you know, it's fine, you know, as opposed to, I did something wrong, and this is bad for the engagement.
[49:42] You're right.
[49:43] So the issue wasn't whether she comes or not. The issue was that he lied, and then he lied about lying, and he showed no remorse, and he insulted you for being too rural or provincial or non-German to not be as sophisticated and wonderful as all these people who apparently just sleep together as you and I might shake hands.
[50:06] Yes.
[50:07] So he was very dismissive, or he put you down, as far as I can understand it. Saying, hey, this is what all the Germans do. If you don't understand, it's because you're not sophisticated. I'm sorry?
[50:20] Yeah. Yeah, he would say it's normal and average. And what's your problem? Everybody does that.
[50:28] Yes, so that's a lie too.
[50:31] It's normal in Germany. It's also normal in Germany that your parents are not curious with whom you are together. and he would say that my expectations that a family should show curious curiosity in who you're bringing that that's unrealistic and he would say yeah your family also didn't do that well.
[51:01] He was kind of.
[51:01] Right about.
[51:01] That wasn't he.
[51:02] He was right yeah right okay.
[51:04] All right So you have this big fight, and then how was it resolved?
[51:14] He just didn't want to accept it and just said, yeah, you don't really know her good enough. Meet her a third time and try to get to know her. Maybe you will like her.
[51:33] No, but that's not the issue at all, right?
[51:39] Yeah.
[51:41] Now, expecting you to be friends, expecting you, his fiancée or wife, to be friends with a woman he slept with is insane.
[51:52] Maybe not friends, but accept. Yeah, I mean, I know it's insane.
[51:58] And to have a lover, to have an ex-lover at your wedding is insane.
[52:08] I couldn't give him any rational reasons why, really. Only emotional, only emotional and, yeah, only emotional subjective reasons.
[52:25] Well, the objective reason is that you want people in your life, when you get married, you want people in your life who can be objective about your marriage. And ex-lovers, people you've had sex with, can't be objective about your marriage. They can't give you good advice because they are too bound up through sexual activity in at least one person in the marriage. So they can't be objective. It's a conflict of interest to have friends around who you've slept with when you get married. And having ex-girlfriends at a wedding is repulsive. It's psycho. It's horrible. It's an insult to you.
[53:14] It's not... Yeah, I know that. And he... Yeah, I mean...
[53:22] I'm sorry, something's gone on with your audio. Sorry, something's not quite right with your audio. It seems to be quite muffled.
[53:29] Okay.
[53:29] Because he's starting a new life of monogamy, and you can't have previous sexual partners as part of your new marriage.
[53:45] Yes, especially if it was only a person, I mean, it wasn't even a relationship or something like that. It was only to have sex with.
[53:59] Well, you don't know. You don't know what it was because they're lying.
[54:05] Yes.
[54:05] Right? So why on earth would you know anything? I wouldn't believe anything that people say with regards to this. And here's the other thing. So let's say that you didn't have a crystal clear, logical reason as to why you didn't want the woman he'd had sex with at your wedding. Right? Let's say you didn't have a good objective reason, right? So what? So what? A friend of mine got married, and he had a lovely four-poster bed that he'd had for some years. And his fiancée said, I'm not sleeping in that bed because you've had other women in that bed. Now, is that totally rational? I don't know, but it doesn't really matter. Because if she's not comfortable, and this is what I said to him, I said, look, if your wife is not comfortable, then ditch the bed. Don't have the bed.
[55:16] Yes i know you too.
[55:17] Sorry there's something going on i'm sorry your audio is bad again i don't know what's going on but we're gonna have to fix it yet oh that's better yeah that's better just whatever you're doing don't move just just stick with that okay good yeah so it doesn't matter if you don't have some big objective rational reason as to why he should still say well if it's really important to you of course my friend won't be there because you are his sole loyalty now you are the loyalty that beats everything else.
[55:47] So if you don't want a woman he's had sex with at your wedding, his loyalty is to you, not to his friend. Because if he says, well, my loyalty is to my friend who I had sex with, not to you, who's going to be my bride, my wife, the mother of my children, and so on, then his priorities are all wrong. You should be his very highest priority. And therefore, Or if you don't want something, then he should say, okay, we won't do it.
[56:18] Yeah. I mean, then he would ask me, yeah, okay. But I want her to be at that wedding because she was one of the few people, that was there for me when I had a very bad time not even my family was there for me so.
[56:47] Okay so then I would say to him I would say to him but I'm your fiance I'm going to be your wife I'm the one who's there for you now and you cannot have a woman you had sex with at a wedding you can't do it you can't do it that's all in the past I'm I'm how would you like it if I had you know a man i'd had sex with at the wedding now he of course would then say oh i'm fine with it i don't care blah blah blah right and that's kind of that's kind of creepy too but but no your loyalty is to me you you know you gave up the right to have her at her wedding when you slept with her and she should not want to be at the wedding because i'm the bride you are supposed to be devoted to me, and you can't have women you previously had sex with at a wedding because it's a new start, we've become one flesh, and your loyalty is to me now, not to previous sexual partners.
[57:49] Yes.
[57:51] Okay, so he said, did he say that Emma wouldn't come to the wedding?
[58:00] One month before our wedding, he just had no energy for this conflict and just said, yeah, okay, she doesn't come. and one day before he said that also Emma, communicated to me that she is fine with that so because I was more or less, yeah I mean he just said yeah you need to get to know Sorry.
[58:43] Audio is bad again. Are you moving away from the phone or are you walking around or is there something else that's using your internet? Okay, so she decided, Emma decided not to come, and Dieter said she wasn't going to come but nobody addressed your actual issues. They just kind of gave way to you because it bothered you but grudgingly. Is that right?
[59:15] I mean, I addressed this issue to Dieter, but it seemed like he didn't care about that. And a couple of weeks ago, he said to me that, yeah, I know you want an apology because what I did. and you will get it when you are not going to ask me all the time for it. But now I'm not willing to give it to you.
[59:56] I'm sorry, I didn't understand that. So Dieter said he was not going to apologize for wanting Emma at the wedding. Is that right?
[1:00:07] No, not for wanting her at the wedding. for lying to me that they had sex.
[1:00:13] Oh, so he said he wasn't going to apologize to lying to you about having sex.
[1:00:18] Right.
[1:00:19] Okay.
[1:00:20] Right.
[1:00:20] So why did you get married? Did you pray on this? Did you ask any priest or anyone? I mean you didn't ask me although you were still you were listening to me at this point right but yes did you pray did you ask God for guidance what did you get out of that.
[1:00:55] I mean I didn't talk to a priest I maybe prayed a little bit.
[1:01:00] And what did God say to you.
[1:01:07] I mean, nothing.
[1:01:09] Okay. So your father said maybe you shouldn't get married. He's a liar. He blames you. He puts you down. He won't take responsibility. He lied to you about having sex with Emma. He also lied to you about his body count, and he refused to admit any kind of fault, and refused to apologize and basically said that your preferences, which are, to me, perfectly rational, were just kind of ill-informed or prejudicial or just the result of not understanding all of the glories of German culture.
[1:01:48] Yeah.
[1:01:49] So what was, help me out, and he's fat, and he's short. Okay. So what was it that had you move forward? What was the plus? What was so amazing about this guy, that even though he's behaving like a real turdhead, what was it that was so compelling about this guy that you wanted to move forward?
[1:02:14] I mean, when we hadn't this argument about this MR topic, then we had no conflict. Yeah, I mean Spending time I mean Yeah, I mean We didn't fight And But.
[1:02:43] You don't know.
[1:02:44] How much.
[1:02:44] You were not fighting because he was Lying.
[1:02:51] And it was so That But in life, we get along great, we want the same things out of life, a family, children. Yeah, and...
[1:03:15] No, but he's not moral.
[1:03:20] I know.
[1:03:22] And you've listened to me, right? I mean, I don't know if you agree with me or not, but when you said you loved him, I'm like, no, you didn't, because I'm not saying he's some evil guy, but especially for a guy in his 30s, you should know a heck of a lot better about how to be a good man, than lying and gaslighting and manipulating and putting someone down who challenges you and so on, right? That's very bad behavior, right?
[1:03:50] Right.
[1:03:51] So if love is our involuntary response to virtue, if we're virtuous, you can't love someone. And, of course, we can love people who make mistakes. We all make mistakes, and we all can do things that are a bit mean from time to time, and we can get called out on that, and we can be honorable about our responses. But he didn't do any of that. He's smug and superior Insulting And false And doesn't take responsibility For lying These are all very bad signs, So maybe you got along with him because You didn't contradict him Or you didn't catch him in lies, Yeah Okay. So why did you marry him? Why didn't you say, listen, we need a little bit more time because I'm kind of shaken by this lying thing and the fact that you won't admit that you're lying. This makes me nervous. I'm scared because if you're someone who doesn't have a commitment to telling the truth and in fact just lies about lying, I'm concerned for our children. Because marriage isn't about you, right?
[1:05:07] Yes.
[1:05:08] Marriage isn't about you, and marriage isn't about Dieter. Marriage is about your children. And it doesn't so much matter what you like, or you find comfortable, or Dieter makes you laugh. It matters, one thing really, and one thing only matters in a marriage, which is what kind of father is he going to be? Because you're choosing, you could choose Dieter all you want, and if you don't want to have kids, that's your, you know, that doesn't really matter. but you're talking about wanting to have kids which means the only thing that really matters is how good a father he's going to be. Now is he going to be a good father based upon how he was treating you in this conflict?
[1:05:52] Based only on this conflict? No.
[1:05:56] Okay. So, why did you get married so quickly when you had a huge army of red flags before the wedding, even before the engagement.
[1:06:10] Why did you move forward so quickly?
[1:06:27] I mean, one reason, and one of the reasons why I went along with the wedding was because I mean, when I met him, I was a virgin after, I mean, a couple of weeks after we got engaged, we had first-time sex. And I mean, I thought that if I already, I mean, this was one of the reasons why I wanted to go on, why I wanted to marry him.
[1:07:20] You wanted to marry him because you'd had sex with him?
[1:07:24] That was one of the reasons.
[1:07:27] I'm just asking. I don't know, one of the reasons, it might be the 10th most important reason, but was it an important reason? Sorry, I didn't catch that.
[1:07:43] I mean, yeah, this was an important reason.
[1:07:47] And why did you choose to have sex before marriage?
[1:07:55] Um, I mean, to be honest, I didn't want it. He wanted it very badly. And I mean, even while we were dating and so on. But I said that I wanted to wait. yeah but he was very pushy and.
[1:08:29] So you wanted to wait and he knew of course that it was very important to you to wait until you were married right, yeah so isn't that extremely disrespectful to you, to know that you're a virgin to know that you want to wait until you get married and to be very pushy to have sex.
[1:08:54] Yeah.
[1:08:56] Was that not a very big red flag for you?
[1:09:02] Yes, it was.
[1:09:04] So why do you think you did it? And it's not a big criticism thing. I'm genuinely curious. I mean, if you've waited that long, why not just wait another couple of weeks?
[1:09:17] You mean a couple of months?
[1:09:19] Sorry, a couple of months, yeah.
[1:09:27] I mean, later I regressed it.
[1:09:30] Well, no, but the question is why you made the decision at the time. Did you fear that he would break up with you? I mean, how insistent was he?
[1:09:40] Oh, okay. So he was very pushy. she and um i think that one thing that he said um lead to saying yes to me was that he said okay um, yeah you would say that was a very big question like yeah when you are not going to um Um, okay, so I need to organize my mind. He said that, okay, when you don't want to have sex with me until marriage and this one, so take a little, a couple months or so, maybe I, and maybe I need to, um, find a woman for sex.
[1:10:49] Okay, sorry, your audio is bad again, but what I think I understood was he said to you, if we can't have sex before marriage, I'm going to go have sex with another woman.
[1:11:01] Yeah, I need to find this somewhere else when you're not willing to give it to me.
[1:11:08] Okay, so he said he was going to break up with you or cheat on you if you didn't give him sex?
[1:11:14] And not break up, just find someone else.
[1:11:24] Well, no, that's cheating on you.
[1:11:27] You're right.
[1:11:28] I mean, let's say he did go and have sex with another woman or other women. Let's say that he did do that. Would you have broken up with him?
[1:11:40] Yes.
[1:11:41] Okay, so that's what I mean. So he said, give me sex, or I'm going to have sex with other women or another woman, and that will be the end of our relationship.
[1:11:57] And not that it will be the end of our relationship, just it will be necessary to the point when I'm willing to give it to him.
[1:12:11] I'm sorry, I'm having trouble following what you're saying. The audio is quite bad, so just try that again. We'll hope it will clear up.
[1:12:19] Um, so no, he didn't say that he wanted to break up with me.
[1:12:25] No, no, I get that. But the consequence would be that he would break, that your relationship would end. Because if he sleeps with someone else, you'll break up with him, right? Because he's cheated on you.
[1:12:35] Yes.
[1:12:36] So the consequence of him sleeping, I get he didn't say it will be over. But it would be over. Because if he slept with another woman, then you would break up with him, if I understand this correctly.
[1:12:49] Yes.
[1:12:50] Okay, so he threatened you with the end of the relationship, the end of the engagement, and really not getting married, unless you gave him sex?
[1:13:00] Yes.
[1:13:03] Okay. And this also was not a red flag enough to put the brakes on or to end the relationship, is that right?
[1:13:18] I let it happen and then regret it Well.
[1:13:21] You didn't just let it happen I mean, you said yes, right? He didn't rape you, right?
[1:13:28] I said yes.
[1:13:29] Okay So you chose to have sex with him to keep him from to keep the relationship from ending Uh-huh, You said that his sex drive is lower now. Do you think that he's getting sex outside the marriage at the moment?
[1:13:54] No.
[1:13:55] And why do you think that? I mean, he's so desperate for sex, he's kind of half-threatening you to get sex while you were engaged. but now you say he doesn't really pursue sex much with you at all because he's got this nonsense about needing to fight for it or pursue it or hunt for it or something like that. So if his sex drive was so high that he's half-bullying you to have sex before marriage against your morals and wishes and now he's not really pursuing sex much with you at all, why would you think he's not getting it from outside the marriage? I'm not saying he is, I'm just, how do you know for sure?
[1:14:35] I mean, I know it because lately, no, not because lately, I mean, since a couple months, he's working from home and don't really have a lot of contact with, yeah, don't really go to other people. So, I mean, I talked with him about that, and he knows that it's an issue for me. And, I mean, the last three months were a little bit hard on him, and he had a very depressing face. and yeah, then he's also now happy with his body and you know Have you ever talked sorry to interrupt.
[1:15:35] Have you ever talked to him about, I assume it made you quite upset that he was very aggressive about wanting sex before marriage?
[1:15:45] Yes I talked with him about that and, and, he apologized for it yes.
[1:16:01] Ah ok and what is your sorry what is your sexual frequency at the moment is it once a month once a week or more or less.
[1:16:13] I mean, it's, yeah, maybe every other four days, but, yeah, I mean, for a young couple, where the woman is, yeah, I would say chasing the man, and the man is most of the time saying, no, I don't want because of this and that. Yeah, you don't, you, sorry. Yeah, good about that.
[1:17:01] Right, right, and I sympathize with that. Was he, you said that he's quite successful, is he wealthy? Is that another factor in what makes him suitable as a husband?
[1:17:14] Also, yeah.
[1:17:16] Okay, so he's wealthy, and of course, if you were to date a man your own age, you wouldn't have access to that kind of money, right?
[1:17:24] I mean, I also hated and no, no, hated but was interested in younger young men in my age that have nothing and were students, Yes.
[1:17:40] But you didn't marry him you didn't marry him in six months right? No And so was the money I mean, if your husband had been poor, would he have been much less attractive to you?
[1:18:02] If he would have been poor. I mean, he is not wealthy in the way you probably think. I mean, he earns very good, but wealth is something different. And he earns, yeah, four times the average income.
[1:18:24] Yeah, so that's wealthy.
[1:18:27] Okay, you're right.
[1:18:30] I mean, so in America, the average income, you know, if it's $40,000, somebody making $160,000 a year is wealthy.
[1:18:41] Yes.
[1:18:42] Okay. All right. and how is your marriage in terms of conversation are you guys having enjoyable conversations does he still make you laugh are you having pleasant chats or interesting conversations about things, yes and that's still continuing.
[1:19:06] Yes, it does. Yeah.
[1:19:13] Okay, so financially he's doing well, your conversations are great, he's still making you laugh. It's just the sexuality that's the issue, is that right?
[1:19:24] Not only, I mean, I know about his sexual past and it's often sometimes boring me. and, I mean, sometimes he will throw...
[1:19:39] Yes, but sorry, but you wanted an older man. And an older man who's very successful. Well, my dear, older men who are very successful are generally high testosterone, which means high sex drive. If you didn't want a man with a sexual past, you could have dated someone your own age who wouldn't have had that sexual past.
[1:20:01] Yeah, you're right.
[1:20:02] I mean, you can't have everything in life. Everything is a trade-off. If you want an older man who's wealthy, he's going to have a sexual past. And his body count of six in his early 30s is not terrible. You said it was a little higher, but whatever, right?
[1:20:17] Not six.
[1:20:19] Yeah, you said it was a little higher.
[1:20:22] Four times higher.
[1:20:24] Oh, so it's 24?
[1:20:27] Mm-hmm.
[1:20:28] Okay. And you found out about the 24... before you got married, right? And was it before you got engaged?
[1:20:35] After our engagement.
[1:20:37] It was at your engagement. Okay. So you knew that about your husband and you chose to marry him, right?
[1:20:44] Yes.
[1:20:45] So you can't, after you marry, unless you're just going to divorce, you can't un-choose what you have chosen.
[1:20:56] I know.
[1:20:57] Like if I, hang on, if I buy a convertible car, you know, where the, the top comes down right if i buy a convertible car, Can I then say, after I buy it, I don't want a convertible car?
[1:21:15] No.
[1:21:16] Right. Now, I can sell the car if I want, and I can get a car that has a fixed roof. But I can't really turn the convertible car into a fixed roof car. Especially if I've had the chance to test drive the car for six months, as you did with your husband, right? So you chose a guy who's very confident, who's very aggressive, who's very successful, and who's older. And that is going to come with high testosterone. That is going to come with a high sex drive. It's a lot of partners, but that's who you chose. And you knew all of this before you married him. And you said, I do. So I'm trying to understand why it's bothering you now but it didn't bother you before you got married enough for you to even slow things down.
[1:22:14] Why is it bothering me now, I mean, why wasn't it bothering me before we got married.
[1:22:32] Well no it was bothering you it was bothering you before you got married but, you still stood up and said hang on but you still stood up and said I do.
[1:22:45] Yes.
[1:22:46] So it wasn't bothering you enough even to slow down and say, let's take another couple of months of being engaged. Right? You got married in, what, six, six and a half months after you first started dating. That's very fast, obviously, right? And so it didn't bother you enough even to slow down the courtship. So, again, I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm just trying to understand why it bothers you now when you knew about it for months before you got married. I'm not saying you're wrong to be bothered. I'm just trying to understand.
[1:23:26] I mean, I don't know him longer. I know at the time, I mean, I got to know more and more and more. And I mean, at the beginning, it all started only with a number. Then with one picture, another picture, your story, the story. and more and more information.
[1:24:18] Okay, did the number go up after you got married?
[1:24:22] No.
[1:24:23] Okay, so this is what I'm saying. You knew all of this before you got married.
[1:24:28] Yes.
[1:24:29] Right? Now, if you chose a guy who was younger or less successful or less aggressive, you'd be complaining probably about not having any money.
[1:24:38] That's right. And if I'm wanting to be a traditional housewife, take care of the kids, I need a man with resources.
[1:24:48] Right. And if you want a man of resources, if you don't want to grow with a man, right? Like if you dated, you're in your early 20s, right?
[1:24:58] Yes.
[1:24:59] Okay. So if you met a man your own age, he would be broke, like he'd be in school and you'd have to wait for years. And then he would get out of school, he'd try to get a job, and then he might have to bounce around to a couple of jobs before he found something that really fit. And then he'd have to start growing his income. And so everything would be delayed, right? yes so you took a shortcut which is to say I want an older man a man 10 years older than me who's very aggressive, and very successful and wealthy and that man comes with a past a man your own age doesn't come with much of a past but you also he doesn't come with much of an income, and you chose, and I'm not saying you chose him just for his money, right? I get that he's charming and funny and all of that, good conversationalist. So you decided to choose a man in part for his money and his success, and his money and his success and his age comes with a history.
[1:26:14] I mean, it just does. And now, 24, I don't know what the hookup culture is like these days. 24 seems high to me, but, you know, I'm an old guy, right? So that's a different, I have a different metric. But, you know, I mean, you knew that he was a player. You know, I don't know if this is the same in… Yes.
[1:26:34] I knew that.
[1:26:34] Yeah, you knew he was a player. You knew he was good with the ladies. You knew that he was charming. You knew that he was the life of the party and so on. So you knew that he'd slept with women before. So help me understand, and I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm just trying to understand, do you think you get all the money and success and age that he has at no cost? Because if that was the case, nobody would ever date younger guys, right?
[1:27:03] I mean, everything comes with a cost.
[1:27:07] I'm sorry?
[1:27:10] Everything comes with a cost.
[1:27:12] Well, that's costs and benefits, yeah. And if all you do is look at the costs and not the benefits, then you'll just make yourself miserable.
[1:27:26] Yeah, you're right.
[1:27:29] Like when I was younger, I didn't know exactly what I wanted to do with my life. Now I do. However, I'm a little creaky because I'm in my late 50s, right? So there's pluses and minuses to both being young and to being older. Now, if all I do is I say, oh, you know, I was much more physically resilient and flexible when I was younger, and this sucks, right? Then I can just look at the negatives. Or I can say, well, now at least I know what I'm going to be doing with my life for the rest of my life, which is a great comfort. And I know who I'm going to be spending it with, which is my wife and all of that, right? And so I'm trying to get you to see that if you chose a younger guy, you'd be frustrated ended up being broke, and you'd have to work for years, probably, before you had kids. Now, with this guy, you can have kids, if you want, sooner, but he comes with a past.
[1:28:23] That's right, and I want to have kids early.
[1:28:27] Okay.
[1:28:28] And if I would choose a student, I would have probably wait, I don't know, five years.
[1:28:35] Well, you might, or you'd have to be content with raising your kids in a very low-money environment, right? So, does that help a little bit with his past?
[1:28:52] Yes, it does. Yeah, I think I may, you know.
[1:28:57] In a sense, and I'm not trying to say this is just financial, but in a sense, you're being well paid for him having a past. And if all you do is look at the cost, but not the pay, that's going to be a problem for you and for him, right?
[1:29:12] Yeah. Yeah. I should be more thankful for the benefits that he brings.
[1:29:23] Well, you have to weigh the benefits, right? I mean, you can't just look at the costs, right? I mean, I can say, gee, I wish I'd met my wife when I was much younger, but at the same time, I was not really a great boyfriend when I was younger in some ways, right? So, there's benefits to meeting her later in life, and there are negatives to meeting her later in life, which is I get to spend less time with her, but there are positives in that I was more constituted for a mature relationship. So, yeah, I just want to give you those cost benefits, because if all you do is look at the cost, you will always have a reason to complain. now his sexual past is it like arising unbidden in your mind is it like haunting you is it torturing you i mean how is it occurring for you his sexual past.
[1:30:13] Um i mean um, Because sometimes I, I mean, once I found some things of another woman in the apartment, then I, I mean, then I will imagine things that he told me that happened.
[1:30:47] Okay, so sorry, what did he tell you that happened? I mean, is it I dated a girl or was it like graphic details?
[1:30:55] No, I mean, for example, I mean, when he told me the stuff about Emma or about some other women, I would just imagine how those things happened in the apartment. I mean, I will, for example, I don't know, make the laundry, look at the bed, and maybe have a bad day.
[1:31:28] Oh, you picture him with the other women on the bed, is that right? Yeah, yeah. Well, why don't you guys move?
[1:31:38] I mean, it's not...
[1:31:39] Is that fresh?
[1:31:44] I don't know if only in your if a new apartment would fix that.
[1:31:49] Well it would help are you are you sleeping in the bed in which he slept with other women.
[1:31:56] Yes.
[1:31:57] Well, at least get a new bed.
[1:32:02] But yeah, I don't know. I mean, I was a virgin when I met him, and sex was always a very special thing for me. And I don't know, sometimes I would just think, yeah, the same thing. why we have any sex that you are doing with me right now you did with every other woman and.
[1:32:29] Yes but you have to listen you married a guy with a sexual history you have to discipline yourself about that okay I mean this is it is a matter of discipline which is you have to push that stuff out of your mind, I mean it's gonna it's gonna I mean it's already harming your marriage right it's.
[1:32:48] Very hard if you know that in the garage is a two-meter big picture of his ex and a calendar with 12 naked photos of her.
[1:32:59] What?
[1:33:00] Yeah.
[1:33:02] So he's got naked photos of his ex in his garage?
[1:33:07] I mean, this is stuff that he is, this is stuff that was laying a couple of years, somewhere in the apartment, and I mean...
[1:33:25] Okay, sorry, I don't need a long story. I just want to make sure I understood this correctly. He's got naked pictures of his ex in his garage.
[1:33:35] Yes.
[1:33:36] Okay, well, throw that shit out.
[1:33:39] He doesn't want it.
[1:33:41] He doesn't want to throw it out?
[1:33:44] Yes.
[1:33:46] Okay, he's got to throw it out.
[1:33:49] But he doesn't want it. And then I say.
[1:33:52] Yeah, I want it. Throw it out for him. Assert your territory. Pee around the bed if you have to. I don't care. But you can't have naked pictures of exes around. Come on.
[1:34:09] Yeah, I mean, I will never go to the garage because it wasn't a cellar. But, oh, yeah, it was so that I threw it out. But he found it and then put it in the garage.
[1:34:28] I'm sorry, do they not have matches in Germany anymore?
[1:34:33] What do you mean?
[1:34:34] Fire! Burn it! Get a barrel! Set fire to it! Barbecue it! There's something visible from space if you have to. It's going to be pretty tough to put it together from ashes, isn't it?
[1:34:51] You know, I thought about that, but, um... I mean, it would be out of rage, and, I mean... it's one of the sins to act ragefully.
[1:35:14] Well, you know, I mean, isn't it also a sin to have sex before marriage? You managed to get past that one, right? A bit of rage will kill. Okay, listen, I mean, okay, so, I mean, is he like a sex addict or something, or why do you think he's keeping, I mean, it's very disrespectful to you, in my opinion, to keep naked pictures of his ex around?
[1:35:36] Yes.
[1:35:36] So, is he like a sex addict or what do you think is going on?
[1:35:42] I mean there's a if you would ask people on the street they would say yeah those are the good made pictures, but there's still the X in the pictures and I know that, I mean he will say yeah they are pretty I will not throw them out okay alright so So.
[1:36:09] I'm not sure what to say about that, other than it's kind of incomprehensible to me, but maybe this is a new generation, right? Okay, and is there anything else about his past that is triggering responses in you?
[1:36:32] Uh nothing else no okay um no and.
[1:36:39] So why do you.
[1:36:40] Think that sorry i mean one thing but i mean i talked with um detail about that i mean i knew for example that he was very crazy about his ex and at the beginning with us when we started to have sex um i thought that i would be the one that would hide um but um yes i was the at the end of the day the one that was, chasing the man and I just, didn't I just thought that this was weird because with his ex he was very crazy with her and so on and Sorry.
[1:37:35] How do you know he was crazy? This is the six year relationship. How do you know that he was crazy with her?
[1:37:42] Because he told it and because he told me.
[1:37:45] Oh dear. Wait, is he telling you details about his sex life with his exes?
[1:37:52] Yes.
[1:37:54] Okay, this is terrible.
[1:37:58] I mean, he... Um... i mean it was um i mean he told me that he was doing it because, yeah i mean yes he would go to details and you yeah and it's then easy to imagine some things and feel and don't feel very important and so.
[1:38:32] So hang on and you don't have to get into graphic detail but he would tell you like the types of sex they had the frequency of sex they had and so on.
[1:38:42] Um no um it wasn't no not in this direction it would be um more that we were talking, for like what was going what were their problems in their relationships, and then he would say that he would just say that they had I don't know a time where they had a lot of very crazy sex, and I wasn't jealous because I didn't have that I'm sorry.
[1:39:25] Sorry, slow down, slow down. So he said he and his ex had a lot of crazy sex. Do you know what he means by that?
[1:39:32] I mean, I mean, a lot of sex. And with me, it was not so. I mean, he was working a lot, was then tired, and I was the one chasing him. And...
[1:39:53] Okay, so he just talked about sexual frequently. I still don't know what crazy sex means, but that doesn't maybe matter that much.
[1:40:03] He wouldn't explain to me how exactly they would do it. I mean, she was...
[1:40:12] What does crazy sex mean? Does that mean sex in a straitjacket? Does that mean sex with a duck mask on? I don't even know what that means.
[1:40:20] No, just... say normal but not boring sex just um yeah i don't know um how to explain it all right so he just meant crazy sorry so crazy he just crazy.
[1:40:38] He just meant a lot frequency.
[1:40:40] Yes okay so and she was sorry go ahead and she was borderline so maybe this will oh borderline personality disorder Yes.
[1:40:53] Was she diagnosed, or did he just call her that?
[1:40:58] No, his therapist said that, yeah, Dieter, I think your partner...
[1:41:06] The woman, yeah, it's borderline. And so he was with her for six years?
[1:41:11] Yes, but they...
[1:41:12] Hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on, let me get a word in here. So, when did you find out that Dieter had dated a crazy woman for six years? Was it before you got married?
[1:41:28] Yes.
[1:41:32] My God. I mean, you'd never had any idea maybe we should slow things down.
[1:41:43] Okay.
[1:41:49] Hello yeah i'm i'm i'm here.
[1:41:52] Um yeah i knew that um yeah i knew about his crazy ex.
[1:42:01] Well no no see there's there's no such thing as a crazy ex they're both crazy.
[1:42:09] I mean, he would call her crazy.
[1:42:12] But... No, no, he was there for six years.
[1:42:15] He was also crazy.
[1:42:17] Yes.
[1:42:18] I still married him.
[1:42:20] Yes, you did. Okay, on minus 10 being miserable as you can be, plus 10 being as happy as you can be, what is your general experience of the marriage at the moment, minus 10 to plus 10?
[1:42:38] I mean average.
[1:42:39] I don't know what average means that that doesn't fit into that category minus 10 and in general minus 10 to plus 10 minus 10 being the most miserable you can be plus 10 being the happiest you can be what is your general experience of the marriage at the moment.
[1:42:59] Um At the moment, I would say maybe a 3, from minus 10 to plus 10.
[1:43:12] Okay, so you're positive. Yeah, 0 is neutral. So you're positive, but you're not as happy as you could be. You're positive about the marriage.
[1:43:21] But you're not as happy as you could be. Yeah, maybe a 4 or 5. It very depends because there are phases when we don't fight or when we don't have arguments. It's very good that when we will have a phase where I, for example, will tell him that I'm still very hurt that he lies to me about Emma.
[1:43:50] Sorry, you said lies, but you meant in the past. like he lied to you in the past or does he still lie to you about Emma.
[1:44:00] I mean, he knows that he's lying. Yes, he's lying, and he knows it.
[1:44:07] Okay, so just to be clear, you're not that upset that he lied. You're upset that he's still lying because he's not admitting fault, right?
[1:44:16] Yes.
[1:44:17] Okay, so it's not the past.
[1:44:18] He will not give me, I mean, he will not regret this or give me an apology because I want it desperately.
[1:44:33] No, I get that. But you knew that before you married him, so you have to accept it now that this is just who he is. Wanting someone to be different after you get married to them is pointless. Right. any chance for change can only occur before you get married. Once you say, I do, you are saying to the person, I love you, you're perfect, don't change. So this is a marriage thing. You cannot, if he was like this before you got married and you said, I do, there's absolutely no point trying to change him now. It's just going to make both of you miserable. This is who he is. He will sometimes lie, and he'll gaslight, and he won't take responsibility, and that's who the brother is. You either live with that, or you don't. But desperately hoping for it to change, being continually upset that it isn't changing, will wreck the marriage.
[1:45:42] Yeah, we're right.
[1:45:46] You said not like a buffet. You know, you go to a big buffet and you can just have a few things and you can put some stuff back. That's not. When you get married, you take the whole thing, the whole person. Warts and all, good, bad, indifferent, you take the whole person. And wanting him to change and being upset and frustrated and angry that he is what you chose. is not going to work it's not productive now whether you stay married to him or not that's another question but you cannot stay married to him desperate for him to change and frustrated at who he is, yes did this make sense.
[1:46:31] Yes i know he's not a buffet where i uh should just pick the best starve and leave the beds.
[1:46:41] Well no but your the buffet was only a partially good example because you're actually really angry like if you go to a buffet at a Chinese restaurant and you get really angry that there isn't pizza that doesn't make much sense right, yeah no if you wanted pizza you go to an Italian buffet right yes so you went to a Chinese buffet you went to a Dieter buffet and there's stuff there that you're not super happy about but you chose him, and nobody forced you to choose him, and you did get some warnings, at least from your father, and you chose not to call me, which would have been free, so you chose him. And to choose him and then continually un-choose him is breaking your vow of marriage. It's a form of infidelity. It is a form of cheating, to be discontented with what you chose.
[1:47:36] He would also do the same with me. Yeah, I understand your point.
[1:47:41] Well, yes, of course. And there are things about you that he would like to change. And it doesn't matter because that's who you chose. You know, when I buy a computer for work, I mean, there are computers that are thousands and thousands and thousands of euros, right? And they do just about everything under the sun. And I don't choose them because I can't spend that much. It hurts my soul to spend that much on a computer. It offends my Irish ancestry and I'm half German too, right? So I will choose a cheaper computer. Because I don't want to spend more. But that means I get a computer that is not as fast and doesn't have as many features. Is that fair to say?
[1:48:33] Yes.
[1:48:34] Right. So I've chosen that, and I've saved money. Now, if I choose a computer that's cheaper so that I can save money, does it make much sense to be really angry that the computer is not super fast?
[1:48:52] No.
[1:48:53] No, because I've got the money in my pocket, right? is he a perfect guy dealer no are you a perfect woman no am i a perfect guy no we're all flawed in in some ways and you know some of us are working to improve and maybe he's on that, continuum as well but you chose a guy who was established successful wealthy aggressive i don't agree with his aggression in personal relationships but you know i i imagine well no we were probably about as successful in her early 30s. But okay, so you chose a guy who has some great stuff about him, and he's got some flaws. And you have some great stuff about you, and you have some flaws. Now, he chose a woman who's 10 years younger and relatively inexperienced, right? I don't just mean sexually, but in life as a whole, right? He's done a lot with his 10 years, right? Yes So there are times when he's frustrated Because your perspective is limited Because you're so young, right?
[1:49:59] Yes, and he wants to change that Right.
[1:50:02] Well, that's retarded Right, Because he can't change that because you're in your early 20s. If he wanted somebody more experienced, he would have to choose somebody older. But if he chose someone older, he sure as hell wouldn't be able to half bully them into having sex, and he wouldn't be able to push them around. So he chose someone who was younger, and he gets some benefits from that, and there are some drawbacks from that. You chose somebody who's older and wealthier, and there are some benefits to that, and there are some drawbacks to that. That's true with everyone and everything. Now, I'm not saying everyone and everything is the same. I don't agree with his aggression. In fact, I think it's bad, really bad, particularly in sexual matters. I don't agree with the gaslighting. I don't agree with the not taking responsibility. But whatever he's been doing, it has given him a very high income and great professional success. And that gives you some advantages in terms of having children younger.
[1:51:08] But you cannot look at him and want him to change. You must accept him as he is because you've already made that commitment. You've already said, I love you. We'll be together forever. Better words, sickness, health, whatever your vows were. That is your commitment. And you can't carve and slice him up into the good and the bad like he's a buffet. that you've already chose you've already ordered right you've you've taste you've taste tested the menu for six months and then you ordered the meal there's no point throwing it against the wall or saying i hate this part and not that part.
[1:51:46] Yeah you're right.
[1:51:55] I'm not in time just personally i'm not entirely convinced that this is a great environment to bring kids into at the moment.
[1:52:06] no I mean I'm only hearing your side of things of course right but you know if he wants to talk to me he's certainly welcome to but you won't yeah he has issues, with self-ownership he has issues with responsibility he has issues with gaslighting and he has issues with boundaries do you know if he's done any kind of talk therapy or counseling in his life.
[1:52:31] Yes he did.
[1:52:32] He did, okay. Maybe after his breakup at the borderline or something?
[1:52:37] Before and while the breakup and after the breakup.
[1:52:42] Okay. Okay, well, that's something, but it doesn't seem to have given him more healthy boundaries. Do not listen to him, and I'm not saying that he would now, but do not listen to him about his sexuality and his past, right? It's just a closed topic. Just say to him, I don't want to hear another word about it. I don't want to hear another thing about it. I'm working on getting those images out of my mind. And I really, really want you to get rid of the naked pictures of your ex. Now, if you want to give them to your ex, and you can get them back on your deathbed if I die before you, that's fine. But I really want them out of the house. I'm a married woman. This is my house now.
[1:53:26] I'm not having some other woman's nipples staring at me every time I go to the garage.
[1:53:39] I mean, he would say, yeah, I didn't throw them out because you were asking it in a very aggressive tone. I mean, you could have asked it.
[1:54:00] Okay, hang on, hang on, hang on. Okay, so hang on. So then if I were you, I would say, you know you've been very aggressive in this relationship too, right? Like you really don't want to be starting to throw these stones, right? Do you remember how aggressive you were at wanting to have sex before marriage? Don't talk to me about being so hypersensitive about aggression. My God, that's ridiculous. you've half had me up against the wall for sex before marriage and then you're like well your tone was a little aggressive like you've got to be kidding me bro, like that's really precious.
[1:54:44] Yeah, you're right.
[1:54:46] Now, then he would say, ah, yes, but you disapprove of that aggression, and therefore I'm disapproving of this aggression. He'd say, because he's probably slippery that way, right?
[1:54:55] Yeah, he's, yes, he can use words very… Right.
[1:55:01] Right. So then I would say, okay, so you're aggressive into your early 30s, and you thought that was fine, so you can give me 10 years of aggression, and then you can start to say that I should pull back on it. but you can't say in your early 30s you're very aggressive and then me in my early 20s you say oh but you're so aggressive.
[1:55:19] It makes no sense.
[1:55:23] Right right it's just it's just manipulation right so i do think that you guys do need to work on clearer communication and i do think that, what bothers you about the ex is the fact that he continues to lie about it but that's who you chose you chose him so saying I think the only thing that you can do in a marriage right is you can act better yourself and hope that he follows but you cannot try to change him, okay yeah right you can only act better yourself and hope that he follows you cannot just change you cannot get frustrated mad at the other person and try to change him, you know If you were both overweight, you can't nag him to lose weight. All you can do is eat well and exercise yourself and then hope that he follows. That's all you can do. You can try and lead by example in a marriage, but you cannot work to change the other person.
[1:56:26] Hmm. Yes. Yeah, you're right.
[1:56:38] And the other thing too is that would you would you change his personality let's say that you were to make him less aggressive right if you would you accept him to go back to the average salary in other words would you accept a 75 pay cut in his income in order for him to be less aggressive well well that's important right, then if you look at the aggression outside of his success then it's just a negative if you look at the aggression is bound up within his success then you can understand the complexity right.
[1:57:19] Yeah, I never thought this way. I mean, I always knew that he was, I mean, like an alpha male where he works. Yeah, and I mean, other men in my life, well, I knew that they were interested in me, but they just were too afraid to ask me, for example, out. I mean, I found it very attractive that my husband wasn't afraid of that. And I mean, when we dated, he showed, I mean, he was just like an alpha and...
[1:58:05] Well, but he's not a true alpha because a true alpha would never date a borderline. because alphas don't like being helpless and borderlines will make you helpless because they're so random, so I mean I get that he's assertive at work and aggressive at work but the alpha stuff, he's got a soft underbelly he's got some weaknesses but nonetheless the fact that he is just so certain of things that he's hard to change his mind well that's part of why the income is there so if you look around and you see the income flowing in there's going to be certain personality traits that are going to come along with that, right? And that's what you signed up for. That having been said, I still would have concerns about how he would be as a father. And also, if you're having, you've been married how long now?
[1:59:02] Oh, three months.
[1:59:05] You've been married three months. And you're already having sexual problems, right?
[1:59:10] I mean, for me, those are problems and I mean, yeah, lightly.
[1:59:25] I'm sorry?
[1:59:27] Yeah, it's lightly. It's a light sexual problem.
[1:59:32] I'm not sure what you mean by light sexual problems.
[1:59:35] I mean it's not an emergency where um uh married couple sleeps only uh.
[1:59:42] Yeah once a year or once a month okay i get all of that for sure i get all of that but it was important enough to call me when you didn't even call me before you got married.
[1:59:53] Yes. I mean, I should have done that.
[1:59:57] I think it might have been helpful, but, you know, we do what we can with the conversations that we have.
[2:00:03] So, I think, yeah, I also think, and this is why I was sort of talking earlier about infidelity, that if he's not, you said you're having sex every four days, is that right?
[2:00:17] Yeah for five and um i mean i'm the one that's initiating it and often i hear no i don't want and.
[2:00:31] Yeah that's that's you know for a guy with an attractive young bride that seems especially if he's been kind of sex mad in the past uh he just he may not be used to a stable and relatively healthy relationships so he might be just realigning his sexuality i mean if he was having sex with the borderline for six years uh that's that's going to be some crazy stuff and he just may not be used to a more healthy and natural sexual relationship and maybe that's just changing for him.
[2:01:05] Yeah probably i mean he would say yeah but also in the past with this borderline i had also phases where I didn't want to have sex, and I mean he will say that yeah he feels not well enough he doesn't like his body he wants to lose weight and he's tired and such things.
[2:01:31] Well do you think how happy if you had to guess and we'll just close up here because I know it's late for us both but if you had to guess where he was in the, minus 10 to plus 10 marriage happiness where do you think his number is at the moment three months into the marriage.
[2:01:59] I would say, yeah, I mean, yeah, maybe a five. Yeah.
[2:02:15] Oh, so he's plus five. So he's happy, but just not super happy.
[2:02:20] Yes because he will say that i sometimes can be um that i sometimes can have a lot of temper and when i'm angry i can also say some very bad things um what have you what.
[2:02:36] Have you what have you said to him?
[2:02:39] I mean, two weeks ago we had a very big fight and both of us No.
[2:02:49] No, no, no. Hang on, hang on. What have you said to him?
[2:02:56] Yeah, I said to him that, maybe I should divorce you.
[2:03:03] What? What? You threatened him with divorce? Two and a half months into the marriage?
[2:03:15] I mean...
[2:03:17] No, no, no, no, no, no. You cannot be doing that. Not if you want to keep your marriage.
[2:03:26] He also did the same thing.
[2:03:27] So, hang on, hang on. You guys were married two, two and a half months, and you're both threatening divorce.
[2:03:35] You know, the reason for this was because...
[2:03:38] No, I don't care what the reason was. It's absolutely irrelevant what the reason was.
[2:03:45] Yeah, I mean, if you marry someone and you have the deal that divorce is not an option, and you don't even make an uh oh yeah how tell you close things um marriage um i think spones um i just know it uh the paper that what they write that in the case of a divorce that a woman can take half of the staff of the men.
[2:04:21] Sorry, why are you talking about taking half of his stuff?
[2:04:25] No, not I'm talking about that. I asked you how this word is in English.
[2:04:31] Oh, so alimony or child support? Well, it wouldn't be child support, but I'm no lawyer, obviously, but my understanding is that you would only get half of the assets it's accumulated over the course of the marriage, not the stuff he had before.
[2:04:46] No, no, I, no, it's, um, no, how, how do you call those agreements, uh, which some couples do? Oh, yeah. Yeah, and I mean, in this fight, he said also that he really regrets not, um, he really regrets it that he didn't do it with me.
[2:05:11] Oh, so you threatened to divorce him, he threatened to divorce you, and then he said he really regretted not getting a prenup to protect his assets.
[2:05:22] Yes, that's why I'm wondering about that.
[2:05:25] Okay, you guys think you're in plus territory in your marriage? This is a disaster. This is a complete catastrophe.
[2:05:37] It's not all our time, you know. It's only in those phases where we have a disagreement.
[2:05:44] Okay, is this where, look, I'm not going to waste my time. If you think the marriage is going fine when you're both threatening divorce, basically two and a half months into the marriage, and he's saying, gee, I wish I'd kept myself legally protected against you taking half my stuff. If you say, well, that's not all the time, then I guess I'll wish you the best, because if you're just going to minimize it, then maybe I'm completely mistaken, and the marriage is fine, or this is a good marriage for you, and I don't want to mess with that. So if you're going to say, well, it's not all the time, then the marriage, I guess, isn't that bad. I'm sorry?
[2:06:25] I don't want to minimize it.
[2:06:27] Yes, you do. No, you just did. I mean, if you had a friend who just married a guy really quickly, and there were divorce threats weeks into the marriage, and legal threats, in a sense.
[2:06:48] He would be very concerned.
[2:06:50] Would you think that that's something worth continuing?
[2:06:55] No.
[2:07:00] Maybe it was just an error.
[2:07:01] I would agree. Yeah, my father said the same thing.
[2:07:08] And what did your father say? He said it was a mistake to get married?
[2:07:14] I mean, he said that maybe it was a mistake and leaving it is now easier than in 20 years with five kids.
[2:07:30] Well that's certainly true yeah that's certainly true I mean if the marriage continues in this way would you want to stay married?
[2:07:45] No I would like to have an honest husband.
[2:07:49] No no that's not what I asked if the marriage continues in this way do you want to stay married?
[2:07:57] no Okay How is it going to change So that it does not continue In this way.
[2:08:13] I should control my, Tone and the things that I say I.
[2:08:22] Mean did your parents fight in this kind of way.
[2:08:26] No, when they have a disagreement, they will just both leave the room.
[2:08:31] Okay, so you don't know how to resolve conflicts in a marriage, right? Because your parents didn't do it, they just left the room, right?
[2:08:41] Yes.
[2:08:41] Okay. So how are you going to learn how to resolve conflicts in a marriage if your parents didn't teach you? And it certainly sounds like his parents didn't teach him.
[2:08:52] No, they didn't.
[2:08:53] How are you going to... How are you going to learn how to do that? I don't know if you've read my book, Real-Time Relationships.
[2:09:04] No, I didn't.
[2:09:05] It might be worth it.
[2:09:08] Yes.
[2:09:09] And have you guys thought about any couples counseling?
[2:09:14] I mean, no, not couples counseling, but, for example, we didn't do a Oh, in the Catholic Church, before you get married, there are lectures on marriage, what's a marriage and how you should act in a marriage and what's the reason for it and why do you want to get married and so on. and he didn't at first he didn't want to do it with me because he thought yeah we don't need this step and this will not help with our problems and i said yeah i would like to do this with you because it will not hurt and it could help and it would be nice if you would do it for me, um but he said very arrogant that no he doesn't want it i can go alone.
[2:10:31] And what else have you called him have you called him names.
[2:10:39] Um i called names maybe a little bit yes sometimes um, Not so often, I mean.
[2:10:58] Okay, listen, I mean, it's a late night for me, so if you want to just keep not answering questions, I'm not sure how we can continue. Have you called him names?
[2:11:10] Yes, I...
[2:11:11] Okay, what names have you called him?
[2:11:14] I mean, how to translate it, homeless. I mean, homeless, I mean, how would you translate a homeless drinking person on the street. Oh, a bum. In English. Yes, I said that sometimes to him. Yes.
[2:11:32] Okay, so you're a drunken homeless guy. Anything else?
[2:11:36] No.
[2:11:37] Okay. Has he called you names?
[2:11:43] Yes, he would. Yes, he had called me a bum, and And a couple of times stupid and loser. And what happens when we have an argument, it often ends with, I mean, he will attack, I will attack. we both will get louder and louder. And when we both are very angry, we will say things that we will later regret.
[2:12:27] Okay. And do you think that this would be a healthy environment for children to be raised in?
[2:12:34] No.
[2:12:35] Okay. So you can't have kids, right, at the moment? Do not get pregnant? is that reasonable advice yes okay so do you think he would go to couples counseling.
[2:13:03] I think he would say, no, you should go see a therapist. Okay.
[2:13:13] And would you go and see a therapist?
[2:13:17] Yes, I would. Okay.
[2:13:19] So I think that would be a good idea.
[2:13:24] Yes.
[2:13:25] Yeah, you can't call your spouse names. You can't threaten with divorce. You can't have legal threats. I mean, why did he talk about the prenup? Was it because you said, well, I can just leave and take half your stuff?
[2:13:42] He said that because, yeah, I would have known that you will make such scenes and, yeah, Yeah, such big emotional scenes with a lot of yelling and so on, I would have made a prenup, because I don't want you to take half of the stuff in the future. Yeah.
[2:14:21] I mean, is this really sustainable?
[2:14:26] Could you ask this again?
[2:14:30] Is this really sustainable, this marriage?
[2:14:41] I mean if i wouldn't fight so much then if i would react more diplomatic then yes.
[2:14:55] Okay well then i suppose if you feel so you feel you're at fault for the fights is that right.
[2:15:04] Um i mean most of the fights they, i mean i will react very emotional because i don't feel understood by him, um and then i will get frustrated and, and it's not often and yeah my husband is it's not um i mean logic reasons um, uh yeah they don't often count he will he wants the ways to be his way what's the things to be like he wants it to be okay.
[2:15:52] So he wants things to be his way right.
[2:15:54] Yes and when i say yeah but there's this logical reason uh blah blah blah and then this logical reason he will just say, yeah but I but I'm the but I'm earning the money, and I should decide sorry.
[2:16:15] Is it about finance financial things.
[2:16:19] I mean it was about, it was about our church wedding oh so you wanted things.
[2:16:30] For the wedding but he was paying.
[2:16:34] It's very weird because, you know, we are only legally, we are married before the state but we didn't have the wedding in the church and this very big fight in the last two weeks, it was about the church wedding, because he wants a very big party and, he wants a very big party and I don't care about it because I want to save money.
[2:17:08] But you have no money, right?
[2:17:11] I mean, we are young and we should save money.
[2:17:14] No, you personally have no money, right?
[2:17:19] No, he pays for it.
[2:17:21] Okay, so you have no money, so you are telling a man in his 30s what to do with his paycheck.
[2:17:30] Yeah I'm his wife.
[2:17:31] No no hang on but you're a Christian right yes so who's the head of the household.
[2:17:39] He said the same thing.
[2:17:41] No, no, I mean, I'm not trying to take his side. I'm just trying to understand what your perception is of Christianity, of Catholicism. Yeah, the man is the head of the household. Okay, so the man is the head of the household, right? So you can make suggestions, but as far as I understand it, in the approach that you would take as a Christian, he would have the final say. I'm sorry if I have that wrong, but that was my understanding of it.
[2:18:07] Yes, it was written so in the Bible.
[2:18:12] Okay, so why are you fighting?
[2:18:16] Because I'm afraid that... Because... In the past, he made some not very rational financial decisions, and I'm...
[2:18:33] No, no, no, hang on, hang on, hang on. Is there something in the Bible that says the man is the head of the household unless he's made mistakes in the past?
[2:18:45] No.
[2:18:46] Okay, so you can't put in things in the Bible that aren't there. You can't make up your own Christianity, can you?
[2:18:54] No.
[2:18:54] I mean, the brother has four times the national income. He's four times the average national income, right? So he's really successful. in his early 30s. And the national income includes people, men who were in their 40s, 50s, and 60s who are making a lot more. So he's doing very well. I bet you he's got, he's probably got eight times the average salary of men in his early 30s, in their early 30s. All right? So he's very successful financially. Is that fair to say?
[2:19:24] Yes.
[2:19:26] So he has some idea what he's doing, right?
[2:19:32] So... I think I start to, I think I'm starting to understand that he doesn't feel respected by his wife when she is telling a financially successful man.
[2:19:51] Okay, hang on. So how financially successful have you been?
[2:19:57] I'm not.
[2:19:59] I wasn't. So you don't know what he's gone through, and you don't know how he's achieved his success. And this doesn't mean that you can't have opinions. It doesn't mean that you can't make suggestions. But you should do them with humility, because he's 10 years older and very successful.
[2:20:19] That makes sense.
[2:20:20] Again, unless I'm misunderstanding something. Now listen, if... Hang on, hang on, hang on. And so, and it goes both ways, right? So if you, let's say that you stay married, you have a couple of kids and you're running the household, right? Now, if you're running the household and you say, we need this, this, and this for the household, then he would defer to you because you're running the household and you have that expertise, right?
[2:20:46] I hope so.
[2:20:47] No, no, but that's the way it would work, right? So in a marriage, my wife has things that she's an expert at and she just tells me what it is and i say yep and then there is things that i have expertise in and i say what it is and and that's how it goes we don't really argue with each other because that's not there's not much point in that right because what's the point that would be like having a company where everybody does everyone else's job like there has to be a division of labor right so so he's good at handling at making and handling money and you're young so you're not good at much yet and i'm you don't mean to be insulting but it's just a factor of age right you're obviously very intelligent and very capable but you just don't have much experience right that's.
[2:21:32] Right i don't have enough i don't have experience making a lot of money i only.
[2:21:37] Have no hang on no it's not just making money it's managing it it's understanding money so you're like somebody just coming into medical school trying to lecture a surgeon with 10 years experience, You're just not going to have any credibility, right?
[2:21:55] Okay. Yes.
[2:21:57] You have to get good at something. Yeah, you have to get good at something in order to have credibility.
[2:22:03] My husband would also say, I mean, he would criticize me that I would lecture. I am young and I shouldn't have the right to lecture people about their stuff.
[2:22:20] Well i mean there's some truth in that of course right but he also chose a younger person and it's it's quite common and listen i was young too so i understand this it's quite common that young people overestimate their own knowledge and abilities because they haven't run up against a huge number of life's difficulties right so it's like when you're watching sports and you just think, oh, just do this, or just, like, it's because you're not on the field, right?
[2:22:52] Yeah, it's, yeah.
[2:22:57] So, your husband, having been very successful, is looking at you lecturing him about money, and, like, you can't just make up credibility, right?
[2:23:11] So what should I do to have credibility?
[2:23:16] Well, if you want to have credibility, then you need to study money, you need to understand money, you need to understand his finances, and you need to have him tell you about how he makes his money and his finances, and you just need to be trained to learn. And you've never run a household budget before, right?
[2:23:40] A household but should not um being the oldest i have a lot of um knowledge about how to run a household and and know how to save money i'm doing that well.
[2:23:55] But why does he need to save money, i'm not saying he doesn't i just don't know why he does.
[2:24:05] I mean yeah because we're young and if we want to buy in the future a house or, um be financially on the safe side it would be nice to save no but his income is just.
[2:24:24] Going to keep going up what are you talking about.
[2:24:26] Yeah i hope well i mean hope i.
[2:24:29] Mean we hope we don't get hit by an asteroid or wake up with a giant tumor in her head. Okay, we hope, we hope, right? But I mean, he's got, he's been in the workforce. Hang on, he's been in the workforce like 10 years and he's making four times the national average, probably eight times the national average for people in his age range. So he's just going to keep making more money. I mean, men's skill and women's skill, but we're talking about your husband, his skill in the workforce is only going to increase, right? His contacts are going to increase, his skills are going to increase, his salary is going to increase why does he need to save money?
[2:25:07] Yeah because i mean i mean by the time he's 40.
[2:25:10] He's probably going to be making a quarter of a million or half a million dollars a year.
[2:25:20] I mean he doesn't work in a free market you know.
[2:25:27] Well so so but you have anxiety but that's no reason to tell him what to do with his money okay like did you grow up poor.
[2:25:34] Um no no not poor but, my parents were yeah they saved always money and i mean my father my parents could afford um, yeah my father was the only um was the earner for the family and my mother was okay and how much Hang on.
[2:26:00] How much money did your father make? I assume it's less than your husband now.
[2:26:07] Yes, it's less.
[2:26:09] Okay, so you grew up with a whole ton of kids, right? Six siblings. You grew up with a whole ton of kids, a stay-at-home mom, and a father who wasn't making much money.
[2:26:21] I mean, it was maybe, yeah, three times the average.
[2:26:25] Yes, but seven children.
[2:26:29] Yes do.
[2:26:31] You have seven children with your husband.
[2:26:33] No I have zero right.
[2:26:37] So don't start don't marry a guy and immediately start telling him he can't spend much money hmm that's not fun for him.
[2:26:48] No it's you know it's a little bit confusing because, he asks me yeah we need to have an overview we need to have an overview where our money is going because I feel that we spend a lot so sorry.
[2:27:07] When he says we spend a lot what does that mean does that mean you and he both spend a lot.
[2:27:15] I would say he spends a lot I mean I spend money only on buying food and Wait.
[2:27:27] So where's he spending his money if you're not spending it together, where's he spending his money?
[2:27:33] I mean, you buy here some things for the car. The car is broke. You need to repair it.
[2:27:41] Okay, so hang on. So that's nothing to do with saving money because that's an essential, right? You have to have a car and it has to work and it has to be safe, right? Okay, so what is he spending money on that doesn't involve you if you're only buying food?
[2:27:54] Okay, so he goes on. soccer games um oh he goes to watch soccer uh or play yes uh soccer or he buys some computer games or he computer games are very cheap relative.
[2:28:19] To his income.
[2:28:19] Yeah okay uh or he visits france with his friend.
[2:28:28] Sorry, sorry. So since you got married, how many times has he gone to France with his friends?
[2:28:37] Zero times.
[2:28:39] Okay, so you're not making any sense here, right? You're saying he spends money on what? Computer games, which are very cheap. Computer games are one of the cheapest forms of entertainment because you pay like, you know, 40 euros or 30 euros or whatever it is, and you can get 100 hours of entertainment. It's way cheaper than going to a movie. It's way cheaper than just about any other form of entertainment.
[2:29:01] Right?
[2:29:01] So don't begrudge the guy his computer games, because that's about as cheap as entertainment gets. Fixing cars? Well, you've got to fix your car. And he hasn't gone. You say, well, he spends money going to France. Well, how many times has he gone to France since you got married? Zero.
[2:29:16] Yes.
[2:29:17] So, it sounds to me like you're starting off as a bit of a nag. You're not learning about his finances. You're not learning about his preferences. You're not trying to understand him. You're just telling him, like a Karen, like a scold, spend less. We've got to save. No wonder his sex drive is going to the toilet. Don't mom him. Don't mother him. Don't wag your finger at him. Don't tell him what he's got to do with his money when you're a couple of weeks into the marriage.
[2:29:55] Yeah, when you say it this way, I mean, she also said sometimes, yeah, it feels like you are my mom.
[2:30:04] Right, so don't do that. And listen, as the oldest sibling to a bunch of younger siblings, obviously by definition, you're going to have a lot of mom in you, right?
[2:30:15] Yeah.
[2:30:15] And there's nothing wrong with that. It's great to have a lot of mom in you. You just can't put it on your husband. Because he's going to feel small, and he's going to feel like a naughty little boy, and he's going to lose sexual desire for you. Because if you mom your husband, he won't want to have sex with you unless he's really fucking weird. And he's not.
[2:30:37] Okay.
[2:30:37] Right? So you cannot mom your husband. You cannot nank him. You cannot do that, or you will kill his sex drive. Because he doesn't want to have sex with his mom.
[2:30:47] No.
[2:30:50] And he doesn't want to have sex with a mom who's two-thirds his age? Don't barge in and try and change his life to suit your preferences when you don't know what's going on.
[2:31:15] Okay. so i should, just okay so i should trust him when it comes to finances and let him do his.
[2:31:37] Way decision okay first of all he's very good with money because he's making a lot of it now just people who make a lot of money who were single spend some money yeah they do Well, of course. What's the point of making all that money if you don't spend it? What is he, Howard Hughes, that he shuffled around with Kleenex boxes on his feet because he's too nervous to buy shoes that he's worth a billion dollars like that? The purpose of making that money is to spend it. So, yes, he's probably quite a spender because he was single. Now he's going to have to adjust to married life, and he's going to have to adjust at some point maybe to becoming a father. And he's a smart guy. His spending will change, right? But you're coming into him when he's been a bachelor for 15 years.
[2:32:19] Yeah.
[2:32:21] So he's a spender.
[2:32:23] Yeah, and I just expect him to, I mean, to act like a man with a couple of kids.
[2:32:33] Well, or a brokie. Right, yeah. He's proud of the money he's making, and he's making great money. and now he's got a woman coming in nagging him about his spending. Like within a couple of weeks of getting married. Jesus, are you trying to drive over his boner?
[2:32:59] I mean, yeah, maybe I worry too much.
[2:33:05] Well, I mean, you're allowed to worry, of course. You're a woman, you're supposed to worry. There's nothing wrong with that. but don't think that he's got to fix your worrying by changing his behavior. Worrying is something you talk about. I feel nervous. You know, I'm not used to this. You know, I grew up in a situation of scarcity, and there's all this money, and I don't know how to... You can worry about it, but you can't get him to change to manage your worry because that's a hole with no bottom. If you say to someone, I'm anxious, therefore you have to change your behavior, you can't change your behavior.
[2:33:36] It will not solve your anxiety. You will just become more and more and more controlling, and you'll get angry at him because your anxiety is internally generated. Right? So if you say, you have to change your spending because I'm anxious, even if it does change your spending, you'll just be anxious about something else, and then you'll demand he change that. And now you've got to do this. Oh, you looked at that woman, and, you know, you dress too. You should shave more. I don't like your color. Like, there'd just be something, right? Because your anxiety is generated internally, and if he surrenders to the idea that he has to change his behavior to manage your anxiety, he will end up a slave because it will never be enough. It's like censorship. It's never enough. It never solves the problem. It just gets more and more and more. So you've got to deal with your anxiety as your issue, but demanding that your partner change his behavior so that he can somehow manage your anxiety, men will fight that to the death. We really will. Because we know it will never end. It will just get more and more and we'll get more and more controlled and then we'll just get resentful and we'll feel emasculated and we'll lose our sex drive. Like we will fight that tooth and nail. Sorry, go ahead.
[2:34:52] I'm starting to understand, Church. I think I need a little bit of help so I mean I'm not I mean I am I mean I'm his wife and if i see that my husband is doing things that unease me a little bit then shouldn't i say something sure.
[2:35:33] Absolutely you can say i'm bothered but you can't say i'm bothered therefore you have to change.
[2:35:42] Um yeah i mean i said that yeah i bought i'm bothered because of this and that so here's my idea let's do that yeah.
[2:35:57] So you're trying to get him to change so that you aren't don't feel bothered.
[2:36:01] I mean he would say yeah you want to think let me let me ask you this so.
[2:36:09] Four four I don't know, four and a half years ago, I was de-platformed, right?
[2:36:14] Yes.
[2:36:15] Okay. So I was de-platformed because what I was saying was bothering people. And rather than them dealing with being bothered, they had to eliminate me. I had to change my behavior or the people who hosted me had to change their behavior. Like, I had to, my show had to be radically changed because people were upset, right? rather than saying, gee, what Stef is saying is really upsetting to me. I need to deal with that. But it's not incumbent upon Stef to change. Right, so rather than be mature, they demanded that the world change to manage their anxiety. That other people have to change to manage your own internal states.
[2:37:07] It's very childish.
[2:37:10] Well yeah it's it's certainly it's not healthy and it never ends this is why principles are so important like it it would just keep because because you'll be mad you'll be mad and frustrated about something and he'll say okay honey i'll change and then you'll just get mad and frustrated about something else and then he'll say okay i'll change and then he'll go get mad and frustrated so it just it will just never end and this is why men we generally tend to resist this or put our foot down at the very beginning because we sense this is why men tend to be more free speech than women because we know that censorship once you give that principle away it will never end and it hasn't ended it generally i mean with the absence of to the exception of elon buying buying twitter it doesn't end it just continues more and more and you know you can see this happening in in england now right they have all this multiculturalism and they're losing their free speech because people are upset and apparently the only way to deal with people being upset is not to say suck it up but to control other people forcefully and that just never ends and so the idea that you're upset and therefore your partner has to change so in my book real-time relationships you should definitely read this it's free freedomain.com books but you can you absolutely should say something but you shouldn't say that he should change.
[2:38:30] Because it's not his job to manage your anxiety. It's not his job to change everything he does to manage your upset or your anxiety. It's your job to manage your anxiety because you're a grown-ass adult and you are responsible for your feelings. And it's not his job to be your nanny to manage your... Like when you're a baby, your parents have to manage your feelings because you can't do anything for yourself, right? So you're a baby and you're hungry. Your parents have to give you food. So you cry and your parents give you food, right? So that's because you can't do anything. But you're an adult. You can do everything for yourself. You can think for yourself. You can reason for yourself. You can manage your own emotions. Do not turn him into some father when you're a toddler and he's got to manage all of your moods. You know, toddlers get really upset. You've got to hug them and talk to them and calm them down and soothe them because they can't soothe themselves, right? Because they're toddlers. And so you have to manage, help them manage their emotions for them. But as you get older, you have to manage your own emotions, and you can't be a baby, and you can't be a toddler. I mean, you can, but it will kill romance and sexuality between you and your husband.
[2:39:40] Yeah, I understand.
[2:39:44] Yeah, so if he's spending money and you say, oh man, I'm really feeling anxious about this money spent. Now, what you think is, I feel really anxious about you spending money, therefore, you shouldn't spend that money.
[2:39:59] Yes, I will think so.
[2:40:01] Yeah, and I understand that. That's deficiencies in how you were raised and all of that. But saying, I feel really anxious about this money spent is an interesting topic. Oh, tell me, when did you hit this feeling or does it remind you of anything in the past? with no like if I were your husband and you said gee Stef you're spending money I feel really anxious I'd be like oh tell me more yeah tell me when did it first happen when did you feel this anxiety and, does it remind you of anything in the past you know all of those good questions you can have great conversations out of that right.
[2:40:36] Yes and he will give me many a lot of reasons why we can afford it.
[2:40:41] Well no see but that's justifying it and that's not right either because then he's trying to calm your anxiety by saying no no no we can afford it But the interesting thing is not the money spent, it's your anxiety. So, you know, if I were your husband and say, oh, do you tell me more? But I would, and then if you say, well, I need you to stop spending, I'd say, well, no, that's not the answer. Like, no, no, let's try and get to the root of why you feel anxious. Let's try and understand why you feel anxious. It's very interesting. I'm, you know, I love you. I care about you. I want to know what's going on. I'm not going to cover up your feelings by changing my behavior. I really want to understand your feelings. If that makes sense. So we, you know, we could talk about it for days.
[2:41:20] And this is also a mistake that I'm doing when he is giving me some concerns or comments and I will just say, yeah, don't worry. We have here good reasons why you shouldn't worry. And I'm not empathetic or curious. Yeah, tell me more. Why are you feeling the way you're feeling?
[2:41:48] Yeah, what triggered it? What happened? Does it remind you of anything else? Did you dream about it? Have you been in this situation before? And you could say, well, how did your parents handle anxiety? I mean, your mother gets anxious. How does your father handle it? Like, you know, it's just very interesting. It's a very interesting topic. It's a fascinating topic to learn more about your partner. But the last thing you want to do is start changing your behavior in some weird attempt to try and manage other people's anxieties, because then you just don't learn about them. You just end up feeling controlled by them and resentful. if that makes sense.
[2:42:21] Yes. Yeah.
[2:42:23] All right. We've had a long old chat. Is there anything else that you wanted to mention? I can't even imagine what time it is where you are here, but it's late for me.
[2:42:33] It's also late for me. Yeah, this conversation was very helpful. And thanks a lot, Stefan.
[2:42:43] You are very welcome. Listen, I certainly wish you the best. I would definitely try and get some talk therapy in. If your husband wants to do it too, I think that would be great. But even if he doesn't, I think it would be a really, really good thing to do. My book, you should check out. Again, it's free at freedom.com slash books. And listen, my friend, I really appreciate the call and I hope that you'll keep me posted about how things are going.
[2:43:09] Yes, I will.
[2:43:11] Sorry, was there something else? You had something else I think was floating around in your head just as we close off.
[2:43:17] Uh, no, no. I just said that I will.
[2:43:19] Okay. I appreciate that. Thank you for a great conversation and all my best to you both.
[2:43:24] Thanks a lot.
[2:43:25] Bye-bye.
[2:43:26] Bye-bye.
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