0:06 - A Father's Journey Begins
3:03 - The Separation
10:58 - The Assault
15:09 - The Police Involvement
19:27 - The Missing Child
21:41 - Crossing Borders
33:00 - The Legal Battle
38:55 - Emergency Travel Documents
42:35 - Returning to Italy
48:24 - A New Normal
49:29 - Ongoing Investigations
53:06 - Reflecting on the Past
55:53 - Red Flags and Regrets
1:01:53 - A Cycle of Chaos
1:18:23 - The Impact of Family Dynamics
1:18:52 - Communication Barriers
1:22:53 - Exploring Childhood Conflicts
1:28:08 - Parental Roles and Responsibilities
1:38:15 - Sibling Relationships and Abuse
1:47:07 - Substance Use Patterns
2:02:49 - The Cycle of Abuse
2:11:59 - Focus on Single Parenthood
The conversation centers on a complex and emotionally charged situation involving a caller, a single father facing a tumultuous separation from his Russian wife. The caller unravels a deeply layered narrative that reflects the challenges of co-parenting and navigating legalities across international borders.
The initial context reveals that the caller, having moved to Italy from Russia due to geopolitical issues and personal disputes with his wife, ended up filing for separation when it became apparent that their relationship was heading toward divorce. The crux of the matter pivoted around the mother’s intention to take their child back to Russia, a decision which violated an existing court order aimed at keeping the child in Italy. The situation escalated into a confrontation that led to physical altercations and allegations of domestic violence, further complicating the legal landscape.
As the caller delves into details, it becomes clear that the situation is emblematic of larger issues entwined in their relationship. The caller recounts moments of physical and emotional conflict that not only strained their marriage but posed significant risks to their child's well-being. The discussion sheds light on the mother's assault on the caller, both physically and legally, as she sought to escape their shared life in Italy and return to Russia with their son, thereby threatening the stability of their child's life.
The call takes a dramatic turn when the mother's actions culminate in a failed attempt to flee with the child, leading to involvement from police and courts. The judicial system eventually sides with the caller after acknowledging the potential risks of the mother taking the child to Russia, where the legal ramifications differ dramatically. The judge rules in favor of the father, granting him sole custody and establishing boundaries meant to protect their son from further chaos stemming from the mother's desires.
The narrative continues to unfold as the caller gets detailed about the emotional toll on their son, who is caught in this turbulent transition. The father discusses efforts to ensure the child is well-adjusted following the fallout from their turbulent marriage, acknowledging the child's fears and emotional aftermath resulting from a situation fraught with hostility and instability. Amid all this, the caller expresses a commitment to safeguarding his son's emotional health, realizing he must break the cycle of dysfunction that was modeled during their marriage.
Throughout the conversation, the dynamics of the parent-child relationship are intricately explored. It becomes clear that the child’s behavior reflects the turmoil experienced in the home, prompting the caller to reflect on how parenting methods must change to foster a healthier environment. He shares insights on the importance of emotional regulation and communication with his son, emphasizing the need to break free from the patterns of the past that had contributed to the conflict-filled relationship with his wife.
The caller's introspection extends towards his own struggles with alcohol abuse prior to the separation, questioning how his lifestyle choices may have affected his family dynamics. His candid acknowledgment of past behaviors and their consequences further enriches the conversation, allowing for a discussion on the responsibilities of parenthood, maintaining self-awareness, and striving for personal growth—both for himself and his child.
By the end of the interview, the focus shifts to future aspirations of nurturing a healthy parent-child relationship, amidst the unresolved legal issues related to the mother. The caller expresses his determination to be a better father and raise his son without repeating the damaging dynamics that characterized his previous marriage. He seeks to emphasize the importance of emotional stability for his child, demonstrating a resolve to actively engage in parenting that aligns with positive emotional experiences.
Overall, this interview encapsulates a father's struggle within a complicated legal and emotional framework, illuminating the profound effects of personal choices on familial relationships while projecting hope for healthier pathways in parenting.
[0:00] All right. Well, listen, man, I'm all ears. Lay it on me. How can I best help?
[0:06] Well, I don't know where to start. I'm a single father now at the moment because my wife is out of the picture. she uh can i say we were we were in the process of separating and uh in the middle of to make a long story short she didn't like the judgment of the courts and tried to take the baby uh back to, i don't know if i say specific locations but to a different country um so she she was caught by the police uh at the border sorry i think you can say.
[0:41] The country because that kind of.
[0:42] Matters like if it's some other western country or no yeah well we're i'm in italy now yeah and uh she she tried to take the baby out of italy which was against the court the court's order and um sorry was she taking.
[0:55] The baby somewhere else in the eu or or further afield.
[0:57] To russia to russia okay okay yeah so i i lived in russia for many years and um we left in 2022 when when everything happened, And so I'm an American and an Italian citizen, and she's a Russian citizen. And the baby has three passports, three citizenships. And we have been living here. Well, I had lived in Russia for almost 18 years, and I was quite happy there. Everything was – we had a good life. And then the war started, and I said, you know, we have to leave. So we got up and we left for a couple of different reasons. But one of the main reasons was my documents, my passport was expiring and I couldn't get it renewed in Moscow because the embassy was closing or closed and they wouldn't renew it. So they wanted me to leave the country and I didn't want to leave my family behind. I didn't want to leave my young son. He was two and a half and my wife was Russian. And so we as a family decided to leave and we came to Italy because I have a dual citizenship and I couldn't get her even to America where my parents are. So we just went to Italy in order to get our documents in place. And, I knew almost immediately that we were not going to be able to come back to Russia, that it was not going to end.
[2:25] She was hoping that we would come back. So fast forward to two and a half, off to 22, 23, I was trying to get her on board and understand that we cannot go back to Russia with a small baby, me as an American citizen.
[2:40] And she was sometimes okay with it, but other times just not okay with it. Her parents are there. Her apartment is there. Our whole life was there, all of our friends and family. But I just said that we have to build our new life in Italy here. And she was trying to do it, but we had issues between ourselves.
[3:03] Even before we came to Italy, we were arguing, fighting in Moscow.
[3:12] So when we came to Italy, it was rocky, mostly financially. and we just kind of grew apart and she got to the point that she just kept saying I want to go home to Russia with the baby and I said no you're not going to we're not going to allow that.
[3:31] And eventually I had to file for separation in order to get an emergency order to keep the baby in Italy so the judge issued this emergency order in October, and we went in front of the judge The judge upheld it after speaking to her because she, again, admitted that she wanted to go to Russia. She has an apartment. She has a job and her parents, and that she should be able to, as a mother, take the baby to Russia. And the judge said, no, you have residency. The baby goes to school here, and he's an Italian citizen. And I guess the main crux of the matter is that Russia is Russia, and it doesn't abide by the Hague Convention. uh so if uh she brought the baby to russia the baby well i i wouldn't be able to freely go there and uh we would be separated so so that so about 10 days after we met with the judge she um well we had a fight an argument in the morning and she um, um physically attacked me i guess is the best way to say it uh she assaulted me and it wasn't the first time and uh the baby was in the house with us he was behind he was in the room actually well sorry but what do.
[4:50] You mean by physically assaulted.
[4:52] You like that that's a wide range of things well she started um started with throwing things at me and um, i i maybe i'm mixing maybe she hit me first um but we were discussing about this idea that so she couldn't find an apartment in italy and she wanted me to leave the apartment so that she could stay here with the baby and i said you know you you want the divorce you want you want separation you want you have an apartment go what you know go find do your own thing leave you know the the uh the apartment is in my name the old utilities uh and actually what i should say is before that i was willing to have a normal separation with her and have 50 50 custody we were working with our lawyers but she was uh she didn't she didn't want that at all she wanted to take the baby to russia or she wanted to um to leave completely so when she found out that that we couldn't leave italy with the baby she and then she couldn't find an apartment she just decided to get a plane ticket to russia um for the 21st of november this was like the 14th of november all this happened um so she.
[6:09] Was getting a she was going a one-way ticket she was basically leaving us alone here she had agreed to you know just go and leave me here with the baby and so i was a little bit sour about this and i said i said to her that you know you'll you'll need to pay uh child support you'll need to help us i can't just you know take care of the baby and you just run off to moscow and she said that she didn't have money because of all the sanctions and she couldn't change money which is you know all legitimate reasonable things but uh and i said well if you don't contribute to the welfare of the child you're not gonna you're not gonna see him and at this point she hit me in the face she she repeatedly not just once but she punched me as i remember with a i guess it was a closed fist um i have it on.
[7:00] Recording so yes she was she was actually i believe she was throwing things at me before she was yelling before that because i had my phone recording which is what i would usually do when she got out of control like i said this was repeated this happened for many many years especially the last two years i have so many videos of her that i would record for my own protection but also just you know see what's going on in my household but this was this was the worst one um and so it It started recording, I believe my battery was dead on my phone, so it started recording right about the argument when she started to hit me.
[7:34] And I removed her from the house physically. I took her by the back of the neck, I believe, or her shoulders or something, and I pushed her out of the door in her nightgown. And this was after she had hit me about at least five or six times. It's on video, or on audio, I should say, because the video was blackened. and um i let her back in the house after that in order to get dressed because she was outside pressing the doorbell and at that point she started throwing things at me anything she could grab like you know batteries like heavy heavy things not not just you know papers or some something and um at one point she was in the bathroom and she threw like a water pick you know like electronic devices and toothbrushes and whatever she could grab from the bathroom. And that one particularly hit my hand, which I still have pain in my finger from that. And like I said, the hits to the face happened before I put her out of the house.
[8:39] At that point, after she threw things at me, I backed up into the other room and I locked the door because the baby was in the room with the television and where i sleep, and um i locked the door on her and she was just banging the door like crazy so i started you know give me my son give me my son again all terrible it's all on video and the baby was right there saying.
[9:02] Give me my son or you were saying.
[9:03] Yeah yeah yeah she was saying give me my son yeah and um i was saying to to to the baby let's get dressed let's get out of here i was trying to you know get him out of the house with me so i i as i remember i was trying to put his shoes on or something and then she came around on the balcony we have two two like french doors on both sides that go into a balcony so she came around to the balcony and was destroying everything on the balcony and um at this point i i went out on the balcony and this had been going on for about 30 minutes or 40 minutes. And I went on the balcony and I confronted her and we had a little bit of a tussle, let's say, on the balcony outside of the view of the baby. But at this point I had had enough and she started...
[9:52] Like I said, she threw everything on the balcony, and I believe I was telling her to go back into her room, and I hit her with an open, like a smack to the face. This is, again, not in view of the child. But that was the only thing that stopped her and her hysterics. She went into her room, and I went back to the baby to calm him down and get him dressed. and then she she did calm down and she wanted to speak with him and i went around so i let her speak with him he was scared you know out of his senses and um i was i continued to clean up all the stuff that she threw and she went into the just as quick as it started it stopped uh so then And she took the baby into the kitchen to feed him and brought him to school. I called my lawyer immediately and said, we have a problem here. He said, I think you need a criminal lawyer now. And then I think we made a couple phone calls back and forth.
[10:59] And he said that she had called the police on me for domestic violence and or telling them that I have marijuana in the house.
[11:09] That you have.
[11:10] Sorry what in the house and the marijuana okay got it um so my lawyer said you know the police are coming um, Again, I don't want to say anything that will be incriminating on the phone, but basically, I got up and out of the house.
[11:34] And I spoke with the criminal lawyer that my family lawyer had recommended. She told me, get to the hospital and document the injuries that you have, which is what I did. And she told me not to go back to the house and to go to a hotel or rent an apartment, which I did for the night. And I assumed that the baby was at school and that she was calming down or speaking to her lawyers or her parents or whatever. I found out later that she had also gone to the hospital, but I guess she had a cut on her foot from broken glass. She didn't have any injuries from me, but I had injuries. So I had x-rays of my hand and MRI of my head at the emergency room. And I have documents that it was, you know, I had the video as well. So they documented it as domestic violence in front of a minor child. And like I said, in the meantime, what happened, I didn't know at the time was that she went to her friend's house and, well, I guess she met with the police. The police came to my house and searched the house for drugs, so they found nothing, of course. They found equipment that I had in my house or paraphernalia, but they didn't find anything illegal in the house.
[13:00] Um again i didn't know this at the time i knew that the police were in my house.
[13:06] Searching when i was on the phone with with the lawyer but i didn't because i had cameras in the house that they had disconnected so i had seen that they were in the house and um like i said i went to the hospital in the while i was at the hospital she at some point got on a bus, and took the baby this was after she met with the police and um as the police did the search i'm sorry i'm all over the place here it was it's a even stressful to talk about it oh no no.
[13:35] That's fine go ahead.
[13:36] As as she was uh as the police searched the house they found the passports, uh which i had hidden in the garage with my documents with all my other you know birth certificates and everything so i had his american passport and his russian passport in the folder with all of my documents. The police searched everything in the garage and in the house. So they found the passports and gave them to her for some reason. The Italian passports for him was surrendered when we had the emergency order from the Italian courts. So the Italian passport wasn't there. So she got a hold of the American and the Russian passport. The.
[14:23] American passport, I believe, was expired. So she had now a Russian passport, and she decided to make a run for it. And I don't know exactly the details, if she had help or if people advised her. I know she was speaking to a lawyer. I assume she was speaking to her parents in Moscow, and I don't know if anybody locally was working with her. But as I was in an apartment at the hospital and then I came home to an apartment, not just come home here, as per my lawyer's advice, she was already on a bus and on her way up to, I guess, Germany. And I guess she went to Munich, from Rome to Munich to Warsaw. And during this, this was a Friday, I believe, or this was a Thursday night, this was.
[15:10] and meanwhile i was in this hotel trying to understand what what to do next and speaking with my mother my brother and my lawyer i still didn't understand that she had run i thought that she had was at home still so so as she was going sorry in in the home that you shared, i was in a i assumed she was at at home in the home that we shared i assumed she was sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry hang on so.
[15:39] Had your cameras been disconnected because otherwise wouldn't you have seen.
[15:41] As soon as the as soon as the police came they they disconnected okay got it got it sorry go ahead so so i didn't know what was going on at home uh my dog was home so again i did i was just kind of i guess in shock um, I was told not to go home, which is what I didn't do. I wanted to go home at 8 or 9 o'clock that night to see what the police had done to my house. My lawyer said, don't go. Wait till tomorrow when the baby's at school and she leaves or something. That's what I did around 7, 8 o'clock in the morning. I got up out of the hotel and I decided to go to his school where normally she would bring him. and he had a field trip going to some wine making or cheese making some place for the children to go they were getting on a bus so they were really excited about it and it was he was talking about all week i decided to go there and say you know papa's okay i'll see you this weekend and um you know i'll be home tonight or whatever i'll see you on the weekend and as i waited there she never sorry sorry so the idea.
[16:51] Was that you would go home with where your wife was that night that seems odd to me.
[16:56] I'm not an expert so well i didn't know how yeah i didn't really understand how serious things were i mean yeah i wanted to go at least go home to get my things or to see the baby or to take care of the dog or you know sorry.
[17:11] Uh you keep saying baby but he's like two and a half right.
[17:13] Well no he's you know at this point he's five we left rusher when he was two and a half oh so he's fine okay so yeah if.
[17:21] You could just say you're a son the baby uh puts.
[17:23] No that's totally fine it's just my own particular preference.
[17:26] So sorry go ahead.
[17:28] Yeah yeah he's not a baby and he's a big boy now um, So I went to the school to see him, to let him know that I was okay and that I would see him on the weekend. And she never showed up. And it was around this time I realized that there was a problem, that she wasn't at home and that she went somewhere. But I didn't fully understand at this point. And so I had the school contact her because, you know, they asked me if I wanted to call her. And I said, I can't or I don't want to because we had family problems. She, the school contacted her, but she didn't answer her phone. And they went ahead, you know, went with the buses and left. And so I went home at this point to check to see if they were at home or what the police had done. And this was eight o'clock, nine o'clock on Friday morning. And this is the first place I went to was the garage where the passports were hidden. And I saw that the police had ransacked, you know, gone through everything and that the passports were gone. That was the first thing I saw. I spoke to my lawyers that the passports were gone. I did. Originally, I didn't find my passports and I thought that they were holding them and that I was under arrest for for something. So I thought I was in trouble.
[18:47] And I went up into the house. I checked everything, and I found my American and my Italian passport, but his Russian and American passport were missing. So I knew immediately that she took them and that she was running because also the toothbrushes were gone and the suitcases were gone. Again, I didn't understand that she was running to Russia. I thought maybe she just went to a hotel or to a friend's just to get out of the house with the baby.
[19:16] Yeah. So what happened from that point, I was speaking with my criminal lawyer, and this was Friday.
[19:27] By Friday evening, we were putting together a complaint. I guess it was too early to do with missing persons, but we were putting together, filing a complaint for the carabinieri, the local police here.
[19:42] And that was Friday night. I was on the phone with her, and I was, I guess, contacting her parents and her and making screenshots of the phone logs and the text messages in order to show the police that I had been trying to contact her. This was all dealing with a criminal lawyer, telling me what to do step by step. So I was back at my house at this point, and Friday night, I was at home alone. And so Saturday morning I met with a criminal lawyer and I signed papers and she gave me the printout to give to the police. So that's what I did around noon on Saturday. I did. the uh the papers to the police the local police and filed a complaint for missing persons um they interviewed me and we tried to call her on her italian phone number and it was uh disconnected.
[20:36] So she she had a her russian sim card that she simply just changed out and when we called the russian number it started to ring so she was using her russian sim card and um the police you know at this point were like ah okay and they pulled up her file and they saw that she had uh you know a schengen visa for five years of course she was here on italy with her her um green card her permiso de sojourno to live here in italy and um the baby of course is i'm sorry the child is an italian citizen so he was living here with me as an italian citizen so we didn't have any visas, but she was here on a living permit.
[21:17] And she also had her Schengen visa, which we had entered from Russia. She had come into Italy with. So they immediately expanded the search zone all the way to the borders of all of the Schengen zone. I assume you know the Schengen zone is basically the European Union and a couple other countries.
[21:41] So uh this was saturday i didn't hear anything you know she i wrote her a few more times as per my lawyer um i called her mother and father i believe two nights in a row they told me that oh she's she's in a hotel probably um just relaxing spending time with the baby before she comes to us on thursday a few days later i'm it sounded reasonable it's possible my my mother, my brother, everyone said, no, she's running, she's running. And I just couldn't believe that it was true until around Saturday night. And at this point, my lawyer said, we might want to get a hold of a lawyer in Moscow to try to fight her as soon as she arrives, whether by airplane or I didn't even think she was trying to go by bus, which is what she was doing. So I was on the phone with some of my Russian friends and contacts that know people in Moscow that maybe could help and as i was on the phone with them her father contacted me by text message and he said that they have her and the baby in uh in poland and that i need to get up there as soon as possible to to get them out of there.
[23:00] So they being like the border people.
[23:03] Yeah, the Polish police. So I called her on her either Russian or Italian phone, and she answered for the first time in three days. They were in detention at the border with the border police, and she was not happy. I got to speak to my son for the first time in three days, and he was doing okay. The first thing he said to me was, Papa, we're in jail. I tried to tell him that, you know, that he wasn't just being protected and whatnot. But I told her to stay, you know, stay put. She was in custody. She told me where she was. I told her I would come up there as soon as I could and get them out of there. So that morning, 6 a.m., was the next flight up to Warsaw.
[23:55] Now, sorry, so she was being held on child abduction, or was it just she couldn't cross the border, or what was she being held on?
[24:06] She was being held because I had contacted the Carabinieri for saying that she had taken the son against an Italian court order.
[24:16] The Italian courts had said he can't leave Italy, and she took him out of Italy. So I had filed a formal complaint with the Italian police that she was gone. We didn't know where she was at that point, but when they found her in Poland, they obviously knew that she wasn't supposed to be out of Italy with the baby. and uh so she when she was at the border i found out later what happened was that she was i guess taken off of the bus they they checked the passports and she has her russian passport with permission to come and go but the baby didn't have any documents in his russian passport so she was trying to cross the border with the russian passport and then of course there was this this you know amber alert this called siren i believe siren system there was a system for abducted children that had you know the alert had gone out all of all of europe looking for her and the baby so so they immediately put her in custody and they took the passports so his russian passport had no stamps in it because we entered on his italian passport when we left russia, so when they looked at his russian passport there was no you know there was no visa in there there was no so she couldn't actually get across the border anyhow and this is the first one of the first thing she said to me she was mad at me because because i called the police she said well i couldn't get across the border anyhow like like that made a difference at least she still violated uh the court order well and of course she called.
[25:44] The police after.
[25:45] What your.
[25:46] Claims are that she had.
[25:47] Assaulted you so okay yeah and she and she and she said that that that was uh her lawyer had uh put her up to that that that was the only way that she would he was that she would be able to stay in the house and to get me out of the house. And she didn't really want to do it. um and again oh she didn't really want to hit you it's just she says her lawyer no no about calling about calling the police oh.
[26:11] Sorry sorry okay got.
[26:12] It yeah so she you know she knew again i don't want to say too much publicly but she knew what i was doing um um you know i i i i was smoking, so but there was when the police came there was nothing in the house they didn't find anything so they but they they found like i said paraphernalia and equipment and uh some seeds and stems and things like that but nothing nothing illegal and actually the so there's actually still an active investigation going on about this um which my criminal lawyer is is taking care of but that's in the future here coming coming in the future but yeah she said that she didn't really want to call the police on me about the marijuana but the lawyer said it was the only way, for her to stay in the house and maybe she had told him that she hit me already i don't know what what she had told them told the police i told the lawyer rather so yeah she so she was mad at me that I called the police, and she was mad at me that there was no marijuana in the house because she had, she thought she knew that I had something illegal in the house but of course I knew that we were in such a delicate, situation that there was nothing in the house because I didn't trust her to.
[27:40] Not call the police on me so.
[27:45] So I got up to poland at about 11 11 12 o'clock um that following morning that sunday morning and i my friend had sent uh some local local contact to meet me at the airport and drive me from warsaw to the border um to a town called terras bowl which is just next to brest litovsk uh in belarus so it's just on the belarus belarusian border and it took us about two hours to get across the country and when we got there the polish police said that they can't release the baby because the italian, carabinari didn't transmit the the court order of the document uh to to them, um so we waited a few hours the i had the italian consulate in warsaw working with me and of course my lawyers and the were working with trying to get the carabinari to send the document to the Polish police so that they could release the baby. And the Polish police said that if nothing happens tonight, that we will have to go to Polish court in the morning.
[28:54] And my Italian lawyers and the Italian consulate said, no, release the baby immediately. And there was some back and forth. We couldn't get the baby out, couldn't get the child to meet that night. So I stayed in the hotel locally.
[29:08] And the next morning around 11, 12 o'clock, I was outside where they were being held custody. And I was waiting for them. um for as i as i understand as i remember the italian consulate and my lawyers were telling me that we were we had to go to court and that the police would take us there the polish police so i was waiting outside i met with the polish police and uh they let me sit in their car and as i was in their cars when the first time i saw them come out of the um out of out of the building And I saw him and her, all three of us got into the back of the car, and the two policemen drove us to another town about 15 minutes away where the courthouse was. We met with the judge. The judge said, what's going on?
[29:58] We explained the situation. Oh, I should say the Italian judge who issued the emergency order had issued a second order as a result of her being arrested, caught in Poland. And I believe the three points were on it were that the child should be released to the father immediately and that the father has sole custody of the child. that the mother has to leave the house immediately and um third one was that she should have no no physical contact with the child or me so restraining order basically yeah.
[30:39] I mean once you run.
[30:40] What you lose right yeah yeah and yeah and she yeah so yeah which is just incredibly stupid what she did i i can't i still can't even explain it i i, I guess we'll get into that later.
[30:51] Well, she was, I mean, according to her, she was taking advice from her lawyer. Whether that's true or not, I don't know. But that's what she would claim, I assume, right?
[30:59] She's entitled. She said she's the mother. She said she's emotional. She panicked. Yeah, I mean, about the lawyer, I don't think the lawyer told her to run. I believe that was her either. She did it herself, she's claimed, because I've asked her directly. But I believe it was her parents also put her up to it.
[31:18] Oh, I see. I see. Yeah, sorry. her lawyer was saying uh.
[31:20] Her lawyer police and get the documentation and all that.
[31:23] But yeah sorry her lawyer did not advise her to.
[31:25] Write because that would be illegal and lawyers don't advise things that are illegal my apologies yeah i can't imagine that he did that i know that my lawyer was surprised at his um unprofessionalism and amateurishness in the court and and after so, i don't know who she hired um but he i you know i i whatever i that's between her and her lawyer, um who who put her up to going across the belarusian border, i it's got to be just her i i can't even imagine her parents were that stupid, to to or they just didn't understand the situation and they said just come to us and we'll you know we'll help you she.
[32:06] Also um i i suppose it's hard to read people's minds of course but i would imagine she was like well once i get across the border i should be fine And she was hoping, I suppose, that the fact that you went to your son's school and found that he wasn't there was your first real tip off the fact that she swapped out the Italian with the Russian SIM. So she may not have expected you to be as decisive and as proactive as you were.
[32:34] And, again, there were definitely angels watching us the whole way because there were things that happened. I just, they all happened in sequence. Either I just got extremely lucky. I had good lawyers. You know, I had my family were talking me through it because I was in shock. I still can't believe that she did it because it's just so stupid.
[33:01] um i mean you know if you had just if she had just gone to russia and come back we could have separated you know peacefully we could have divorced if she if that's what we wanted to do and had 50 50 custody but she didn't want that she wanted to go back to russia well no she doesn't i mean if you don't.
[33:18] Want to live in russia and she doesn't want to live in italy then 50 50 doesn't work for her right.
[33:21] Yeah exactly exactly and and to be fair i i would love to go back home meaning russia but i can't just can't with what's going on what's what what will be happening i mean it's just uh oh hang on you mean the divorce or both well both yeah okay got it but but especially what's happened to russia russia has changed uh you know since since 2022 the the society the laws and i as an american i just i can't live in russia i'll be a target and now with her you know she wants custody of the baby, whether her or her father it's just too much of a risk to take they'll arrest me like all the other Americans and hold me as a hostage, to swap me out with some other weapons dealer or something some spy so, where was I? so.
[34:17] Sorry, you were at the Polish court, and you had a judgment from the Italian lawyer with the three points.
[34:25] Yeah. The Polish judge said to us, we had a translator there, an English translator, and we were all sitting, three of us together. And the judge asked, who has seen the judgment from the Italian courts? And now my wife hadn't seen it yet, so she didn't know that I had full custody of him, and she didn't know that she was forbidden from being in the house or seeing the baby. So I raised my hand, and the judge, of course, had seen it, and we walked through it, and to make a long story short, he asked us, what do you want to do? And under my lawyer's advice, and I guess her lawyer's advice, we had sat down for lunch. Down for lunch? No, lunch was after. I had told her, just remain calm. I'm going to get you out of here. Even her father said to him, please don't leave her there. I don't know if I could say names.
[35:20] No, if you could say off names, I would appreciate that.
[35:24] Yeah, so don't leave my daughter there. Don't leave her there. Take her with you. And I said, I'll see what I can do because I didn't know if I was going to be able to get her out. So with the judge, I said to the judge, and she said that we want to go back to Italy to solve this as a family with our lawyers. We don't want – there's no –.
[35:53] We don't want it to be an international court. We want to get back home to Italy to solve it with the courts there. And so he made us sign some papers and make statements about that she could come home to Rome with me and that we would deal with it with our lawyers. And he gave us the baby's passports back to me, told the police that I have full custody of the baby until we get back to Rome. So if for any reason she gave me a hard time, and of course we were ordered, I guess, to not talk about the situation and stay calm and just get back to Italy as soon as we could and deal with it with our lawyers. so she was cooperative uh the whole way we went to lunch as soon as we were released from the court and all three of us we went to uh you know the police just gave us our documents back and said okay good luck and we we were near next to a train station which was how we were going to get back to warsaw so we sat down at a restaurant to have lunch and figure out our next moves, uh we took a train back to warsaw and i read it's uh just you and your wife and your.
[37:14] Son where was your.
[37:15] Friend your friend who drove you he had left he had to go back the night before so he had drove me and i i stayed in the hotel and then he drove back okay.
[37:24] Got it so.
[37:24] Just the.
[37:25] Three of you and so you're.
[37:26] Just basically.
[37:27] Thrown to your own devices after all of this.
[37:29] Crazy legal Wrangling.
[37:30] Okay.
[37:31] Yeah. It's just like a nightmare thinking about it. And it was just minute by minute, hour by hour. I was on the phone with the Italian consulate in Warsaw. They were advising me because we didn't have any travel documents for the child. So we had only his Russian passport, which had no visa in it. So we couldn't get – the only way to get back from Warsaw, back to Italy, was by train, which was about 36 hours, I believe. and i did not want to sit on a train for 36 hours i wanted to fly it was awkward as it was so i wanted to fly uh so what we did was we got on a train it was about an hour and a half train back to warsaw and i booked a hotel on airbnb or booking.com or whatever on uh online near the train station in warsaw so i was able to get into a safe place for that night um obviously i could not sleep. I was like a soldier on watch. I just did. I mean, everywhere I was afraid that she was going to run with him again. I mean, that was her chance. And I just wanted to get as far, I wanted to get back to Italy as, you know, in the borders of Italy, at least, or just even as far away from that border as possible. And, um, yeah, I was.
[38:43] We stayed in the hotel that night, and then that next morning, I took the baby to the Italian consulate in Warsaw to get an emergency travel document.
[38:55] And she cooperated. She came to sign for the document. They needed both parents' signatures. And at that point, I realized just how much trouble she was in, and I started to tell her that she was looking at jail time. They're talking about three years in prison. And I said, you know, you need to, and I guess she had spoke to her lawyers too. I said, you need to cooperate. You just need to stay calm. And, you know, let's get on the airplane tonight and get home and we'll figure things out. So that's what we did by about 5 p.m. that night. We were at the airport.
[39:31] And sorry, the prison time, again, I'm no lawyer, was to do with defying the court order to not leave the country with the child.
[39:39] For child abduction, yeah.
[39:41] Child abduction at that point, right. Okay, got it.
[39:43] Yeah, yeah. And so, you know, I was saying to her, like, this is getting out of control. I don't want her in prison. I didn't want her in prison at the time, and I wanted just to get back to Italy, and I was afraid that we were going to get stuck in the Polish courts and that she would be held, and I wouldn't be able to get her out or help her anyway.
[40:06] Sorry, but how is it that her cooperating gets her to evade the charges of this child abduction stuff?
[40:15] I don't think there's an asterisk in the law that says.
[40:21] Well, unless you cooperate afterwards.
[40:22] The Polish judge allowed her to come back to Italy. So, yeah, my father doesn't understand why she wasn't held in Poland as a criminal. but I guess it was because it was Italian jurisdiction and that we we needed to get back to Italy um.
[40:40] I guess and I'm not sure that yeah I mean she would have to be extradited to Italy I assume it's not like Poland hang on bro bro I think it was listen okay I'm sorry hang on hang on hang on slow your roll and I know this is stressful I get it but I really do I mean you've been talking for half an hour and happy to hear I really do have to be able to get a question or comment in from time to time okay yeah okay and I understand it's stressful but you know just just do your best, all right? So, yeah, I would imagine that Poland doesn't want to get necessarily involved, and they certainly don't. So, she'd have to be extradited at some point. It's not like Poland is going to pay for her being in prison when none of this happened in Poland.
[41:18] I believe it was for the best of the child, was not to make it more stressful for the child. I think that's what they were thinking.
[41:24] Oh, sorry. And is that to do with whether she goes to jail or not?
[41:30] No, about releasing us together as a family, not ripping the baby from her and leaving her and having to say goodbye to her in Poland. I think the idea was to get back to Italy and then solve it with our lawyer to lawyer or in the Italian system.
[41:45] Okay, got it. Got it. Sorry, go ahead.
[41:49] And that's why i was interrupting you as it was i was just trying to get that part out um so when we got back to well no and sorry just interrupt.
[41:56] It's it's because i have to play the role of the audience a little bit to try and get.
[42:00] Clarification so if i don't even get the question.
[42:02] Out you know the answer but my audience doesn't so sorry go ahead.
[42:05] Absolutely absolutely um we got back to italy and i um i had booked uh the same apartment that i stayed in in my neighborhood It was close to my house, so I had booked it for that night because I knew that she wasn't allowed to come back to the house. And I spoke with my lawyer, well, I spoke with her, and I said, sorry, you have to stay out of the house. You can't come home tonight.
[42:36] And she, of course, started to cry, and she asked me if she could stay just one more night with him.
[42:43] I spoke with my lawyer. my lawyer said you know the judge won't know but but you know under no circumstances do you leave them alone so we all three of us went back to the house and um it was late at night at that point, and they slept in the in the normal room that they would normally sleep and i slept in the other room with the dog um but in the house and everything was calm and quiet we didn't argue or fight about anything the next morning we brought the child to school and she uh you know we had talked either that night or on the airplane or something that in order to de-escalate the situation because now we have the police looking at me for drug i don't know what she told them if i was growing selling using whatever she was telling them um but they were looking at me for you know, not going to say narcotics, but marijuana. And she was in trouble for child abduction and domestic violence in front of a minor child. And so my lawyer said, you know, you're a hair away from losing custody of the child. They're going to take him away.
[43:51] Now, do you mean not to her, but he'd be taken by the state? Like both of you were in such trouble?
[43:57] Okay got it yeah yeah yeah so we both as as uh parents so we didn't want that obviously and she i said i'm sorry she she you need to get on i mean just give me.
[44:11] A favor don't give me all these and it's just just stay off names just do you make let's make svetlana let's call her svetlana.
[44:20] She needs to get on an airplane and go back to your parents get out of here uh and let me pick up the pieces and figure out what to do next. So she agreed. She said that, I don't want you to lose the child also, meaning she understood that she's already lost him. And that's what she did. So the next day we brought the baby to school and she packed a suitcase and we picked him up from school in the afternoon and spent a few hours together, took some pictures as a family, last last pictures we have and we put her in a taxi and she went to the airport and i stayed here at home with the baby and the dog at the airport she was she checked in because again she had already had a flight that she bought the week before before all the fight and everything, so she she tried to catch this flight and she checked in she got to security and they of course pulled her on the side and this is where they i guess you would consider it arrested she was fingerprinted a photograph and um by the the local italian police they let her leave the country you.
[45:33] Can't just leave the country.
[45:34] If you have.
[45:35] If you're embroiled in legal issues right.
[45:38] Well yeah that's what we don't really understand she they they allowed her to um i i believe she had to sign a paper and i i had i had gone to see the police that day to show that the baby was save it with me and this paper we showed to i emailed it to her and she showed to the local the police at the airport and um, I guess her and her lawyer had signed some papers or agreement that they would answer the criminal charges. So they allowed her to leave the country, and that's what she did. She booked another flight and went to Moscow. She was there by the next day, and that's it. So she's been there, and I've been with the baby since.
[46:28] And how long ago was that?
[46:30] That was november the end of november okay.
[46:33] And you guys late 20s early 30s you don't have to give me exact ages but just rough.
[46:37] Decades oh you're.
[46:39] Both in your 40s is that right.
[46:40] Yeah okay.
[46:41] Got it early mid late.
[46:43] I'm late she's early okay.
[46:46] Got it okay so you're pushing 50 all right got it.
[46:49] Yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah um so i've uh i've talked with her we talked on the phone every day i believe until around christmas new year's and then i stopped uh speaking with her every day on the telephone but but from end of november december we we had you know 30 minute 45 minute hour long, uh video calls with with her and the child and um i didn't i spoke with her maybe one time on the phone in november uh through text messages maybe in the airport but i i just i couldn't speak with her i didn't want to speak i have nothing to say to her and then on christmas morning i let her, experience Christmas morning with us. And that was difficult. Just the two of us here and she was distantly, around, like I said, New Year's, second and third of January, I just said, this is enough. I can't speak with her on a daily basis. It's just making me crazy.
[48:00] It's just affecting my mental health and my emotions. And of course, the baby sees that. He sees me getting angry and upset. And that was around January 2nd, 3rd. And now we talk to her about every 10 to 14 days, only because she asks. And I don't want to keep her from talking to him, but I don't want a regular every day.
[48:24] so she's she has been asking for one to once to twice a week to speak with him and um we're kind of in some disagreements about um my stuff that's in moscow i'm still trying to get it shipped out of there they're in boxes and so she's dragging her feet on this i don't know why i guess it's her leverage on me and uh i told her as long as you you don't listen to me and you don't, respect what I'm telling you or what I'm asking you, I have no obligation to have you speak to the baby every day because it's affecting our daily routine. We're trying to go in the bath.
[49:05] Well, and you have sole custody, if I understand this right.
[49:07] Yeah, I have sole custody. It's my discretion. I've talked to the lawyers and they said, you can do whatever you want because I was afraid that I would anger the judge that if I They have parental alienation or something. And I just didn't want to affect the child negatively either.
[49:25] And do you know what's happened with the criminal charges?
[49:29] It's under investigation still. They basically told me that as long as she's not planning to come back to Italy, that there's no threat and she's not threatening to come back that uh it may take upwards of a year to finish the investigation and and come to to to court which is you know everything is slow in italy it's just so funny like they literally have her travel documents and.
[50:01] They have the judge's order but still takes a year to investigate.
[50:03] Yeah they told me if she tells me she's coming back to italy they will move up the investigation and and you know quicker quicker yeah i guess they have to deal with.
[50:15] Stuff that's more imminent threat okay got it.
[50:17] Yeah yeah so we have a hearing in june for the separation that was from the original uh emergency order for for um separation and or divorce and i guess custody arrangements so that's june of this year and the criminal hearings we don't know anything about but i assume it will be before november um she is planning to come back in june to go in front of this judge that that um you know issued the emergency order so that should be interesting and i believe at that point the custody arrangements will be made permanent where i have sole custody that's what my lawyers are are telling me and uh of course i I told my criminal lawyer that she's coming back and that she's planning to come back and or visit three to four times a year. So if that will affect the criminal case or the speed of the criminal investigation, then we will know from there.
[51:24] But as i know so i appreciate that obviously that's a a lot of backstory is there anything else that you wanted to mention because obviously philosophically that's not much i can add to that situation but no just to understand how sorry did you did you just not let me finish my sentence again yeah.
[51:41] I did i'm.
[51:42] Really kind of religious man okay go ahead.
[51:45] My whole body's shaking so difficult So, yeah, but the backstory, it's just, that's, you know, that's our, our, our.
[51:56] How I'm sorry, if I could ask you just for one other mildly technical thing, your voice fades in and out a little bit. I'm not sure if you're getting further or distant from the microphone, but if you could try and keep a constant distance, that would, I'd appreciate that.
[52:08] Sure. About our marriage. I mean, we were married for six years. We were together for 10. always arguments, fights was never really peaceful and this was just the final yeah.
[52:28] Okay but how pretty was she?
[52:33] She had a cute face I'd say but I can't say that she was so as Russian girls go she wasn't the, most attractive I guess it was more more about money and um comfort of of uh living we we had our apartment we had a good life there with through her family wait sorry but yeah she had a pretty she's a pretty girl yeah yeah.
[53:00] Okay so i mean in general russian women are elves and russian men are orcs that's just the general pattern.
[53:05] Exactly that i've seen but.
[53:07] Uh so what you're saying is that her family gave you money.
[53:12] Yeah they supported us but.
[53:15] Why why would they support you i mean you met her you were in okay so in your late 40s now so you met her in your late 30s why would you need money from her mommy and daddy.
[53:27] Well yeah i i didn't she she did she she accepted it um, when we got married uh she accepted a position in her father's company you know it was like an a ghost position where she would collect a salary and the idea was that she could focus on on the we could focus on starting a family sorry a ghost position so he.
[53:48] Paid her for not working really.
[53:52] Yes exactly okay and.
[53:54] I guess it was a huge amount of money or whatever but why i mean are you guys christians.
[54:01] Uh, yeah.
[54:02] So, I mean, aren't you supposed to be there?
[54:04] I am, for sure. Her unquestionable, uh...
[54:07] Sorry, go ahead.
[54:09] I'm questioning her, uh...
[54:11] Well, did she claim to be a Christian at the time? Like, 10 years ago?
[54:14] She did. She was baptized, yeah, she was baptized, we got married in the church and everything, yeah.
[54:18] Okay, so you're the head of the household, right?
[54:22] Yep.
[54:22] So how are you the head of the household if, okay, what proportion of your household income was coming from your wife's salary for her.
[54:31] Pretend job 35 40 60 40 something okay so.
[54:37] She was getting paid x amount of dollars she was getting paid 60k you were making 100k or i mean not saying that was it but something like that.
[54:44] Yeah um yeah and again i i did not agree to this i agreed in the beginning um but i was always against her father giving the amount of money that he did whether it was gifts even to me he would give me birthday or christmas gifts and i just felt uncomfortable taking it from him but the monthly salary this was something that i had spoke to my mother and my my students and friends about and they all said to me the same thing if you know if he can and he and he wants to and he can you know it's their only daughter he wants to help uh you know just take take the help and i had had multiple conversations with him about that this money needs to stop that i don't want it coming into the house so i was not taking it um you know like oh free money i was really against it uh for for years but it did help i mean it really did help you know having a child is expensive so he he did help and he he told me he wanted to help and i i so i accepted the help okay got it okay so hang.
[55:53] On so were there any red flags with regards to svetlana not her real name but we'll just use that were there any red flags with her early on when you were dating.
[56:07] Of course, of course. I mean, from the very beginning, she basically thought that we were married, which is very common with Russian women. I was like, slow down a little bit. We just met. It's been a month, three months, something. Massive fights and arguments.
[56:28] She thought that you were married? I'm not sure what you mean by that.
[56:34] She... It's hard in the Russian language. So she basically considered me her husband from the very beginning. Not just boyfriend, girlfriend. She was like, you know, we have a relationship, so we're together, and you're a close person to me now. So looking back, that was way too quick. She was trying to move into a marriage relationship.
[57:02] And how long after you first started dating did you have sex?
[57:08] About one month. It was very quick.
[57:11] Got it. All right. So she was kind of pushy with the marriage stuff. And, you know, three months is usually a better rule, but you guys went with a month, which is not, I mean, I've heard worse. Obviously, I've heard like same date. So what else did you see with regards to sort of impulsivity and tempera?
[57:31] Well, she had these just hysterics. She would just get upset and just get angry and yelling and just crying and uncontrollable crying.
[57:45] What? But when? Like early?
[57:48] If we if we had yeah in the first in the first three to six months um i would say the biggest red flag was when we first visited america with to visit my parents so this was after about eight or nine months of of dating and uh we we were not we were living in separate apartments so i had my apartment she had hers and she would visit on the weekends but we we were we would see each other you know all the time um but we did it was pretty much okay that first year but the biggest red flag was in in in america um when we were in um i guess we were in washington and she got mad at me because the night before i had been inebriated just silly silly drunk and um the next day i didn't remember anything in the hotel room. And so she got upset at me and she started to drink the vodka that I had left there. And I said, okay, we're going home. And I checked out of the hotel and started driving home from Washington up to New York. And she just got belligerent in the car, telling me that she was going to have me deported from Russia. She was going to tell her father and have him contact the police or something to have me deported, to lose my job and have me kicked out, lose my visa.
[59:08] Sorry, but on what grounds would she get you deported? Did she say that or just make the threat?
[59:13] No, just the threats. And then the big one was that she was going to... So as I was trying to get her out of the car and I said, I'm just going to leave you here, put you in a hotel, and I'm going to drive home and you can find your way back to Russia.
[59:27] And this was how she said nine months in?
[59:30] Yeah, this was January. We had met in February, March of the previous year. So it was about nine, 10 months.
[59:36] Okay.
[59:38] She had threatened to tell the American police that I raped her.
[59:42] Oh my God.
[59:43] And I was like, whoa. Yeah. Whoa. Uh, And again, this was 10, 11 years ago, I can't remember the details, but I remember trying to get her and her suitcase out of the car, and she was kicking the windshield from the inside on my rental car. And I was just, you've got to stop, you've got to get out. And it was this kind of where she would just get emotional and hysterical that she couldn't. Again, this particular morning, I know she had drank vodka because she was trying to show me how I behaved or something. but uh yeah that was that was the biggest red flag and when we got back to i drove her back to my parents house in new york and we we didn't we were basically broken up uh in for the last few days and we flew back to moscow together but uh we were not together and i think we were separate for about a month after that and we got back together in february or.
[1:00:42] March but why the fuck would you get back together with a woman no no this is not funny this is not funny it's not funny because there's a child so how like help me process this i've never heard of anything like this before and i've been doing this for a long time so there's there's causality here that i don't grasp and i'm a guy who likes to figure out causality so she threatens to get you kicked out to russia and take your job and your career she threatens to tell the police you raped her, and you get back to oh and and previously she has the oh and she kicked the windshield from the inside and previously she had these sobbing hysterical fits where she's like screaming and writhing on the ground in tears right yeah yeah yeah so why why and she's not she's not some stunner and and you get completely dicknapped so i i don't that there's some obviously giant missing pieces maybe there is for you too but why on earth would you get back together and why on earth would you give her her a child.
[1:01:54] Those are two big questions. The first one I can answer, I believe it was my judgment was clouded from my alcohol use. I was a big drinker at that time. I was alone in a foreign country. I had friends and stuff, but she was my girlfriend of about a year and just gave her another chance.
[1:02:24] But you're not drunk all the time, obviously, right?
[1:02:27] At the time I was. Now I'm sober, but at the time I was.
[1:02:31] No, nobody's drunk all the time, right? I mean, you sleep. You wake up at the hangover. Or did you just wake up? Did you just drink when you woke up?
[1:02:39] I had a bottle next to my bed.
[1:02:40] Sorry, I'm still not getting sentences out. Okay?
[1:02:44] Sorry, sorry.
[1:02:44] So you're not drunk all the time, or were you? Were you drinking and teaching and drinking?
[1:02:51] No, I had to work. yeah i would i would drink uh every night so not okay so you weren't drunk all.
[1:02:58] The time because you said you're a teacher right.
[1:03:00] Yeah i.
[1:03:02] Assume you didn't teach while drunk.
[1:03:03] No but hung over and hung over yeah i get that so if.
[1:03:08] You say i made bad decisions because i was drinking i understand making bad decisions while you're drinking but you're not.
[1:03:15] Drunk all.
[1:03:15] The time so in your sober moments didn't you say what like this is i'm i'm literally walking into a lion's.
[1:03:24] I don't i don't remember thinking that at all at that time at the time i remember that you you asked me for a reason why i went back to her looking back i believe it was because of of a kind of a i want to see a flama bond but it was some kind of connection that we had and no.
[1:03:47] Connection enhances nothing.
[1:03:51] Okay.
[1:03:52] No, it's tautological. Like, well, why did you get back together? Because we had a connection. Well, that doesn't answer anything. The question is, why did you have a connection? What was the nature of the connection or whatever, right? Okay. Let me ask you this. So you got friends and you've got family. Do you have siblings?
[1:04:08] Yeah.
[1:04:08] Okay. So do you share or did you share what happened with friends, family, and siblings, parents and siblings?
[1:04:20] I i know for sure my best friend knows about the rape accusation because we've talked about it recently and he.
[1:04:27] No no no at the time at the time not now sorry i was unclear my apologies so at the time did you say she's hysterical she's lying on the ground she's kicking windshields she's trying to destroy my career she's threatening to have me thrown in prison for 20 years for rape uh and And did you share the facts and the truth about what was going on with your girlfriend, with parents, siblings, friends, extended family, and so on?
[1:04:56] One friend, for sure, 100% at the time. My father, I believe I spoke with him when we were still in New York before we left. And we were, you know, obviously I told him we were split. But my siblings, I don't speak with very much.
[1:05:15] Okay, so your father, you told your father, she's insanely dangerous. She's going to destroy my life. She's going to get me thrown in prison. She's making threats and so on. And so you said something along those lines to your father, I assume, because he must have said, why did you break up? And I assume you're not lying to him. So what did your father say?
[1:05:39] I think he was shocked and he was happy when I told him that we're done, we're finished. But we went back to Moscow and I didn't speak with them after.
[1:05:53] So what, you didn't tell your father who was very happy and relieved that you were out of danger in this way. You didn't tell your father you got back together with Svetlana, is that right?
[1:06:06] As i remember yeah it was nobody else's decision but but mine i at the time as i remember i was speaking to my parents about once a month or maybe yeah about once a month i would sorry hang on hang on hang on it.
[1:06:19] Was nobody else's decision but yours i don't understand what that means.
[1:06:25] So I told my friend and my parents what happened in Washington.
[1:06:30] Yes.
[1:06:30] And then we went back home to Moscow. And then I believe I didn't speak to anybody for two to four weeks before I got back together with her. I wasn't on the phone with my friend or my family very much. I must have told friends in Moscow what happened, but I really don't remember.
[1:06:52] Sorry, and I'm not asking that. I'm asking when you say it was nobody's decision but mine, are you trying to say that your decision to get back together with a dangerous and unstable woman does not involve friends, parents, and siblings somehow? Like, they're not going to somehow be fucking affected if you get thrown in prison.
[1:07:14] Well, no, I just didn't have any discussions with them.
[1:07:19] But why?
[1:07:22] Because i i was involved with my life in in russia i wasn't i i had left my family in america i didn't i didn't speak to them on a daily basis the way that i do so you understand.
[1:07:32] That you're just prevaricating here right this is bullshit i didn't speak to them on a daily basis jesus christ.
[1:07:39] No i come on man you're.
[1:07:42] A father stop with this stop it.
[1:07:45] I'm sorry you're a father which.
[1:07:47] Means that if your son, let's say your son has a friend, he gets older, right? He's in his teens and your son has a friend who's an out and out criminal. And then he says, oh yeah, my friend got arrested and I'm no longer friends with him. You'd be like, oh, thank God, right? Now, would you be okay with your son becoming friends again with this criminal, hanging out with him and starting to engage in criminal actions and not telling you? uh no and if he said well you know dad sometimes we don't talk every day what would you say to him.
[1:08:26] We need to speak more often.
[1:08:28] Okay what would you say to him about hanging out with his criminal friend and hiding it from you.
[1:08:34] I would say that you know he's going to get you in trouble and you need to stay away and.
[1:08:40] He'd say hey man no no it's it's this decision only affects no hang on this decision only affects me dad well.
[1:08:51] What i say as a father.
[1:08:52] I would.
[1:08:52] Say you know no it doesn't you're my son and i want the best for you.
[1:08:55] Yeah what you do affects me, And it has.
[1:09:03] What I'm trying to say is I didn't have communication with my father in that way. We didn't speak on the phone more than once a month, and I would speak usually to my mother.
[1:09:15] Jesus Christ, man. Oh, my God. What are you doing to me? Why are you making up all these bullshit excuses? Okay, when you needed your father's advice and help, when you were engaged in all these legal battles, did you call him? in november well just whenever this shit was going down.
[1:09:35] I don't i i really don't speak with my father on the television i speak mostly with my mother and that yeah of course now i i i speak with in november and now i speak with him on a daily basis.
[1:09:46] Fantastic okay so you have a line hang on you have a line of communication to your father that's open you talk to him now on a daily basis so when you say well we didn't talk before okay you're gonna let me finish my sentences are you gonna let me finish my sentences are you going to let me finish my sentences correct you thank you so you are able to talk with your father on a daily basis so when you decide to get back together with a woman who could destroy your entire life and is threatened to do so, and you say well but i didn't talk to him that often that's bullshit, because now you talk to him all the time so you can easily pick up the phone and said dad this woman who you told me you were incredibly relieved that i got away from i'm really thinking of getting back together with her what do you what do you say or you could have called a friend who said hey that woman who threatened to accuse me of rape i'm really thinking of getting back together with her what do you think or you could have called your mom and said mom this woman who threatened to destroy my life repeatedly i'm thinking of getting back together with her what What do you think?
[1:10:54] I understand what you're saying, but I do not have that relationship with my mother or my father talking about my relations with my friends or girlfriends.
[1:11:02] Bullshit.
[1:11:02] At the time, I sexually...
[1:11:03] Stop lying to me. You already said that you had a conversation with your father when you broke up with your girlfriend. When you broke up with your girlfriend.
[1:11:13] When we returned from Washington.
[1:11:15] Yes.
[1:11:15] They asked me why we returned early.
[1:11:17] Right.
[1:11:17] So I told them why we returned early.
[1:11:19] Right. So you did have a conversation with your parents about your dating life.
[1:11:23] In person in in new york and then when we went to moscow there there was i didn't have that open line of communication i would only call once a month or something just to tell them i'm alive the.
[1:11:35] Meantime hang on hang on hang on this is what's frustrating what do you mean you didn't have that open line of communication you could have had a video call anytime you wanted, it wasn't like you were locked up or in or in prison uh or or you were in some uh soldier of fortune a mission where you couldn't talk to people you could have picked up the phone or picked up a video call and and you could have chatted with them anytime that you wanted.
[1:12:04] I understand i could have but i did not you're asking me what happened and i'm telling you i did not speak with them at that time.
[1:12:11] Why not you keep giving me all of these circumstantial excuses like well we didn't have this line of communication and we didn't talk more than once a month and it wasn't in person i'm asking why you didn't tell them that you wanted to get back together with this woman because they're your parents they care about you and you were making fairly suicidal decisions without telling them and i'm asking why and giving me some circumstantial bullshit like well we didn't talk that off then that doesn't answer the question the question is why did you hide it, I'm trying to help you here. I really am. And I just can't. He listened to this nonsense. Why did you not tell them?
[1:12:51] I don't understand why it's nonsense. I want to give you an answer, but I don't understand when I'm telling you what happened, you're telling me that it's nonsense.
[1:13:01] No, you're giving me excuses. Like, I didn't have an open line of communication, which is false. You absolutely had an open line of communication, which is you could have picked up the phone and told them anytime.
[1:13:14] And I have never spoke to my parents about my relations with, you know, or decisions about the only I would have conversations with my with my best friend. And but I.
[1:13:28] Okay but how can you oh my god we're just going round and round in circles here so you did tell your father why hang on hang on hang on i'm still still trying to ask a question here, so you did tell your father can we agree on that you told your father why you broke up with your girlfriend.
[1:13:46] I told her i told him why we returned from washington early because they couldn't understand we were supposed to be there three days we returned after one i told him what happened and that we were going back to Moscow.
[1:14:01] Okay, how is that not exactly what I just said? You told him what happened, that she kicked the window, that she threatened to accuse you of rape and all of that, right? So you told your father about what happened in your relationship, and he expressed enormous relief that you were not going to be with Svetlana anymore, right? Right.
[1:14:26] I don't remember his exact response, but I imagine it was.
[1:14:30] Okay, bro, listen, listen, I'm sorry to interrupt you. Look, we're going to have this conversation or not. It's up to you. But if you're going to sit there and tell me, well, I don't remember his exact, like, what do I care about his exact words? Of course, you don't remember his exact words from 10 years ago. Who would? But if you're going to prevaricate in this kind of way, then I don't really know how to have the conversation. I don't know why we're fighting about this stuff, because you give me these things which aren't true, but you're telling me things that aren't true. And I can't work with you if you tell me things that aren't true.
[1:15:06] I'm trying to be truthful with you. I just don't understand what you're asking me. You want me to say that my father did not, that I didn't speak with my father about it, that he didn't step in to save me, to help me? I was 37, 38 years old. making decisions about my relationships with the woman i'm not saying it was a good one obviously it wasn't good you asked me about the first red flag that was the major first red flag the only person that ever said anything to me at that time that i remember was my friend and he said you know run get away from her and he even recently he said i told you so i told you 10 years ago and he was right of course but, you know my parents were the only one that I remember telling them that I returned, from Washington early but I, didn't speak with them about getting back together with her you know when I was in back home I didn't it was just something that happened I called I contacted her we met at a movie theater and, we decided to to you know give it another shot she's.
[1:16:16] Okay given that your parents and your extended family and your siblings i mean you're not so you're not that close to your siblings let's just stick with your parents has it been fun over the last while for your parents.
[1:16:31] Oh of course they're devastated right what's going on.
[1:16:34] Now if you had called your father and said hey that woman who threatened to accuse me of rape i'm thinking of getting back together with her what would your father have said?
[1:16:45] They'd say you're nuts.
[1:16:49] I'll tell you what I would have said if I were your father. If that's of interest to you.
[1:17:00] No, it is. I mean.
[1:17:02] Now, of course, if you were my son, you wouldn't have ended up in this situation. But let's just say for whatever reason, I would say, or let's just say as your friend, I would say, if you do something this self-destructive, I'm not your friend anymore. Our relationship is over because I'm not going to watch you destroy yourself. Like if you sent a video to a friend saying, hey, I'm going to live stream playing Russian roulette, he wouldn't watch, would he? I don't watch people who make absolutely suicidal decisions. I don't get, I'm not in relationships with people who are that self-destructive. So I would have said, hey man, you're an adult, you're free. I mean, this is so completely crazy and predictably self-destructive that you can't get back together with her. That's an absolute fact if you do get back together with her i'm not i'm not going to be around to watch the shit show like i'm not i just i don't have the energy and i don't have the focus and i don't want this insane decision that you're making to spill over and screw up my life, if you want to go it alone that's fine you can go it alone and you can reject all of the good advice that people give you but then don't ask for their help because you want to go it alone right.
[1:18:24] You don't want to give other people input in your decisions that's fine but then don't ask them for help when things very predictably go haywire.
[1:18:39] As I remember, that was the relationship that I had with my family. I was in Russia. I had left everybody. I was very cut off, so I didn't speak with them.
[1:18:52] No, none of that's true. Okay, let me ask you this. Are you currently in Canada?
[1:18:58] No.
[1:18:59] Wow. But how are you and I able to have an important conversation, despite the fact that we're not in the same country?
[1:19:09] Okay i understand but this don't think you do because you.
[1:19:12] Keep saying well i was in russia like that somehow means you.
[1:19:15] Can't talk to your family we we use i used to use calling cards calling from russia where i had to where i had to uh scratch off a pin number all right we had skype at the time but my parents didn't use skype we would use skype only for like birthday calls so mostly i would use calling cards that had minutes on them so uh i called very rarely i had very little contact with my family i would visit once a year um and i think even the following year it was two years that i hadn't visited so i i didn't i was not that close at that time in my life did you even hear.
[1:19:53] Yourself when you say my parents didn't use skype we would only use skype for birthdays.
[1:19:58] Yeah well i mean that we didn't use the way that we use it now we have video calls all the time we have messenger we have uh okay hang on like bro.
[1:20:08] Bro did you i mean this is a complete contradiction my parents didn't use skype but they did use skype for birthdays.
[1:20:16] We didn't use skype on a regular basis stefan we used skype once a year so what are you what the Pinned cards.
[1:20:24] And all this stuff and calling cards when you could call Skype for free?
[1:20:30] Because my parents did not use it. My father did not have a computer. My mother didn't even know how to set up a call. We just didn't use it.
[1:20:38] So then how did you use it on birthdays? My God, man.
[1:20:43] Okay. We didn't use it very often. We used it once a year.
[1:20:48] So they used it. So you could have called them on it. You could have texted them and said, turn on Skype. I need to talk to you. And they would have turned on Skype just like they did on birthdays, and you didn't.
[1:20:58] Yes. Could have, but we didn't.
[1:21:00] You didn't. You're the one who had information that was directly affecting your parents, which is I'm getting together with an extremely dangerous woman who's legally threatened their son.
[1:21:12] I did not that's what i said from the beginning i did not share this information with them i did not they were not part of the.
[1:21:17] Decision and my question look i'm not i'm not going to circle this drain anymore because you're i think you're just purposefully misunderstanding me at this point because i'm asking why and you're giving me all of these ridiculous technical well i had a pin card and i like my parents didn't use skype very much and i was in russia like that doesn't answer the question as to why you didn't tell them. Now, let me ask you this. Why was it okay to be with such an unstable woman? Was your mother very unstable? Was there instability or chaos or mental illness in your family while you were growing up? Something made this familiar or acceptable?
[1:21:57] It's a question i've been asking myself i we had stable house except uh maybe fighting between my siblings um there was no no history of mental illness no no uh no drugs no alcohol um just my brother my my brother would fight with my father my sister would fight with my mother my brother would fight with my sister, and I was in the middle. And I just picked up, and I said, you know, I went to Russia. I had enough. I just didn't want to be part of the whole mess. So that's the only thing that I can pinpoint.
[1:22:31] Okay, how often would these, on any given week, how many days would be spent with there being conflict? I mean, how many days were peaceful, and how many days were conflict in a week?
[1:22:44] I would say three to four conflict, if not more, five, six. They were always fighting, my brother and sister.
[1:22:54] Okay. Why do you think they were fighting?
[1:23:01] I believe because my parents were not involved properly, and they did not, I don't know, my father took sides with my sister, my mother took sides with my brother, and my sister and my brother just had clashing personalities. I mean, as you're alluding to, I believe it starts, the fish rots at the head, it starts with the parents, and how they organize the household.
[1:23:30] Okay how bad would these fights between your brother and sister get.
[1:23:38] Similar to what we had between between my wife and girlfriend at the time you know she my sister would throw things at my brother my brother would do some passive aggressive things like flush the toilet while she was in the shower so hot water would go off and, you know call names oh so they really kind of hated each other yeah yeah, for years this went on at least a decade from.
[1:24:04] What age to what age.
[1:24:07] My age no.
[1:24:09] From what age.
[1:24:10] My sister no.
[1:24:10] Just i mean were they.
[1:24:11] Six to 16.
[1:24:12] Five to 15 like.
[1:24:13] What was it a decade well my sister my sister's six years younger than me and eight years younger than my brother so my brother and i are closer in age um my sister i guess it started when she was maybe 8 or 10 until she was 16.
[1:24:27] Wait, hang on, hang on. Sorry, sorry. You said that your brother was 8 years older than your sister?
[1:24:34] Yeah, and I'm 6 years older than her.
[1:24:37] So your brother was picking on a little girl when he was an adult?
[1:24:44] Yeah.
[1:24:46] Okay, what the fuck?
[1:24:48] Calling names, you know?
[1:24:49] Okay, it's not funny. Not funny.
[1:24:52] Teasing.
[1:24:52] So why was your brother mentally torturing a little girl, That's not a fair fight, is it?
[1:25:06] No.
[1:25:08] So why was he mentally abusing and torturing a little girl?
[1:25:12] I didn't do that to her. I didn't. I believe because, you know, now that you say it that way, I believe it's because the relationship he had with my father, either out of jealousy or because of how close she was with my father. Maybe he was jealous or the way that my father treated him.
[1:25:33] How did your father think?
[1:25:34] They always had a con—, I don't know how to say it. I guess the dismissive or he was always like the black sheep of the family. Towards, I guess, when he was 12, 13, 14 years old, he started hanging out with bad friends and smoking cigarettes and doing drugs and getting bad braids.
[1:26:00] Hang on, hang on. So your brother started doing drugs when he was like, what, 13 or 14? Did I get that right?
[1:26:08] Yeah, drinking and smoking, yeah.
[1:26:10] Okay, when did he start doing drugs?
[1:26:12] Harder drugs. The harder drugs later, I guess 16, 17.
[1:26:15] Okay, hang on, hang on. When did he start doing the soft drugs?
[1:26:23] I guess around 14, 15, 14, 15.
[1:26:26] Okay, so your brother started abusing drugs when he was 14 years old.
[1:26:34] Yeah, yeah.
[1:26:37] And I guess your sister was eight.
[1:26:44] So he would be in ninth grade, so she was...
[1:26:47] Eight years, right?
[1:26:48] Yeah, yeah.
[1:26:49] Sorry, six, my apologies, six. She was six years old. Okay.
[1:26:53] First grade, something, yeah.
[1:26:54] All right. So when did you find out that your brother was abusing drugs?
[1:27:03] Well, I knew that he was smoking cigarettes because he would smoke in the room. We shared a bedroom, so he would hang out the window, and then he would sneak out at night out the window and meet with his friends at nighttime. So I would either come with him sometimes, but yeah, I knew that he was smoking and or drinking. when I was in 8th and 9th grade, so when he was in 10th grade.
[1:27:28] Okay, and who was it? Was it your mother who raised you, or was that outsourced?
[1:27:35] Well, both my parents were in the house, but my mother was the main, she kept it, the glue kept everything together. And I should also say...
[1:27:43] Sorry, your mother was the stay-at-home mother, right?
[1:27:46] No, she worked. My father was injured. He hurt his neck around 94. So I was in ninth grade and my brother was in 10th. And my father compressed his spine and was put on disability. So he was going through this difficult time. My family was also around this time.
[1:28:09] Okay, so your mother worked. So who raised you?
[1:28:17] Well both my parents worked until my father was injured and then he when then my father has been.
[1:28:21] When you were little when you were little hang on when you were little someone had to take care of you, okay um i mean you've been a dad you know this right did you leave your do you leave your six month old son on his own for the day when you go to work no.
[1:28:40] Of course i.
[1:28:40] Was my mother until she went back to work. Okay, so how old were you, or I guess your sister's the youngest, right? Or how old were you when your mother went back to work?
[1:28:51] I believe she went back when I was one or two, I believe right away.
[1:28:56] Okay, and did she then take more time off for your sister?
[1:29:00] No, I don't believe so. My father would work at nighttime and would take care of my sister as my mother went back to work. My brother and I, I believe she went back to work after a year or two, quite early.
[1:29:17] Okay, got it, got it.
[1:29:18] We went to daycare.
[1:29:22] Okay, so did your parents know about your brothers, I assume, drinking, smoking, drug use, and so on?
[1:29:36] Yeah, they did eventually, or quite early on, yeah.
[1:29:41] How old do you think your brother was when they finally figured out that he was hanging out with the wrong crowd and doing drugs and drinking and smoking?
[1:29:50] I would say around 14.
[1:29:51] Okay, so they realized that he was being influenced by sort of very bad peer pressure, and that he was in grave danger, right? And the reason I'm saying that is that, of course, there's the addiction issues, there is criminal elements, particularly in the drug trade. But of course, most importantly, there's, you know, fentanyl and things like that, that regularly get added to drugs that will kill you.
[1:30:21] And this is early early 1990s so it was mostly alcohol and uh marijuana and then as i understand later i found out that it was you know coke and i think he smoked crack a couple times or something a lot of hallucinogens but i think there's a lot of lsd i don't think there was fentanyl wasn't even a product at that point no that's fair i appreciate that there wasn't no no albiets or anything like that that was way before right okay i mean there were.
[1:30:46] But but it wasn't.
[1:30:47] Yeah yeah it wasn't no i appreciate that i mean i guess heroin or so i guess was out out there but um i as i said he never did any of that as i was shocked when he told me that he had smoked crack i was already in my 20s or something when i found that out.
[1:31:02] Okay so your brother is spiraling down into this pit of dangerous addiction and what did your parents do.
[1:31:15] Trying to punish him take things away from him um you know he had problems at school so they were trying to keep him in school but they, as i remember not much just yelling yelling at him threatening.
[1:31:32] Well i mean listen i mean addiction uh is is a very dangerous condition and you know amateurs i know sorry yeah yeah you know for sure but amateurs can't fix it right i mean have you ever tried have you ever heard me trying to fix somebody's addiction i don't even right i can talk about childhood stuff but you know dealing with addiction is a complex multidisciplinary thing because you've got psychological issues you have social issues you have physical dependence issues like it's a it's a big complicated thing to deal with addiction, right?
[1:32:10] Sure.
[1:32:11] So I assume that your parents, when they're dealing with this, would have called on help, right? They would have talked to a doctor, a doctor might have referred them to an addiction specialist or an addiction counselor or something like that, right? You don't, I mean, if your brother had leukemia, they wouldn't just yell at him, right? Or punish him. They would say, gee, you know, this is a big complicated thing. we got to get some experts in right and i mean this was known in the 90s right i was around in the 90s that that addiction was a big complicated thing that you don't just yell at people who are addicts right and it's a it's a big yeah a big challenging thing so i assume that they would hang on so i assume that they would have consulted with with experts.
[1:32:57] I don't think that they knew the extent at the time i think they knew he was drinking alcohol and smoking cigarettes, but they didn't know the extent of it. Not that that's an excuse.
[1:33:09] It's not an excuse because it's their job to know.
[1:33:11] Sure.
[1:33:12] Right? It's their job to know. And if he's hanging out with a bad crowd, and even if we just say he's drinking and smoking, alcohol is catastrophic for developing brains. It's Brad as a whole, right? But it's really bad for developing brains, right?
[1:33:28] Of course.
[1:33:29] Okay, so it's their job. to know so they can't claim ignorance right like if you if you have a test to study you can't just if you forget to study or you decide not to study you can't just say well i didn't know it's like well it's your job to know you know the test is coming and so when your child is falling off the rails and hanging out with criminals and and drinking and smoking and and all of that then it's your job to find out uh what's going on and it's your job to move heaven and earth to help your child to no matter what.
[1:33:59] Yeah and again at this time my father was dealing with a head injury and he was sorry i thought it was a.
[1:34:05] Neck compression did i have that wrong.
[1:34:06] Yeah neck compression but he has a head injury short term memory um and how did he get this uh.
[1:34:13] Sorry did he get the head injury at work.
[1:34:15] Yeah i was at work so a tv he had a you know one of these giant 27 inch tvs at the time not these flat screens and it compressed his spine, which caused all these injuries.
[1:34:27] Okay.
[1:34:28] So I know...
[1:34:29] Sorry, did he have cognitive deficits? Is that like he had a head injury that caused cognitive deficits?
[1:34:35] Yeah, he still does, yeah.
[1:34:37] Ah, maybe that's why you didn't talk to him about your girlfriend. I wasn't aware of that. Okay.
[1:34:41] So your father has cognitive deficits.
[1:34:44] What about your mother?
[1:34:46] She does not, no, thankfully.
[1:34:49] Okay, so then she should have... right no everybody knows that peer pressure in the teenage years are a tough thing right.
[1:34:57] Like every parent knows.
[1:34:58] That i mean it's been on.
[1:34:59] Sure tv.
[1:35:00] You know since since i was a little kid right it's a long half a century.
[1:35:03] Right so 10 o'clock you know where your children are yeah.
[1:35:06] Yeah actually i think it was 11 it's 11 o'clock 11 so yeah so i mean the teen peer.
[1:35:13] Stuff we had curfews at curfews they were involved in everything that they just i want to say they were doing their best but it wasn't you know obviously wasn't good enough.
[1:35:23] Okay so was this about the time that your brother started tormenting your little sister.
[1:35:30] Yeah i would say i would say that okay so maybe a little bit later a little bit later after right so they were letting a.
[1:35:43] Drug addict mentally torture their little girl.
[1:35:45] Yeah it was more when he was 17 18 19 20 like when he even got into his 20s when he was living at home still and she was you know young young pre-teen, sorry how does that mean what i'm saying no i just she was a little bit older that's all he wasn't like she was six and he was you know sorry.
[1:36:08] I thought you.
[1:36:08] Said it started.
[1:36:09] Uh when he was 16.
[1:36:10] So the fighting and stuff started when he was older is what i'm saying the fighting the argument what about.
[1:36:16] The mental torture the torment the teasing come on man.
[1:36:19] I think that was a little bit later but okay so what started.
[1:36:23] At 16 unless i misunderstood something i just i feel like i'm just lost in this fog everything keeps changing now.
[1:36:28] Maybe that's my perception so what started at 16 with your sister all of the, The teasing and, as you said, mental torture in this, it was when he was a little bit older and she was a little bit older. They got along. I would say he was absent, really, between these years of like 14 and 17. And it was only later when they started to fight all the time. And even when she was older, when she was 16, 18, and he was in his 20s. And they would fight all the time.
[1:37:04] Okay, hang on. I'm so sorry. and maybe this is completely on my side, so I apologize for that. I thought you said that the torment started a couple of years after he started smoking and drinking and all of that, which I thought was 14, so that would put it at sort of 16 or so, maybe 17.
[1:37:20] Yeah, that's what I'm saying. It's a little bit later than that, as I remember. He was a little bit older, and the really bad fighting.
[1:37:26] So it was like when he was 20 and she was 12?
[1:37:32] Yeah.
[1:37:33] Is that right?
[1:37:34] Yeah or a little bit older maybe even 20 24 and he was she was 12 16.
[1:37:38] Okay okay all right so he was still living at home and what did you sorry as.
[1:37:47] I was too.
[1:37:48] Okay we were all at home okay so you're all at home so you've got a guy in his mid-20s picking on a tween right yeah okay so or you know, early, early teens. So, um, what did you do about that?
[1:38:09] I stayed out of it. I mean, I remember when they were quite... What do you mean you stayed out of it?
[1:38:13] This is your little sister.
[1:38:14] They were quite really bad.
[1:38:15] Hang on, hang on, hang on. It's your little sister. I mean, did you not care about protecting her?
[1:38:25] We didn't have a relationship from about when she was about... about 16, 15, 16. I stopped speaking with her for about, I guess, until now. I really don't speak to her. So I had a relationship with him, but not with her.
[1:38:46] So you sided with the... Okay, how long was your brother on drugs and alcohol for?
[1:38:53] Until his late 20s, or maybe early 30s.
[1:38:56] So you sided with the drug addict against your little sister?
[1:39:01] Well, yeah, because I was also smoking and drinking at the time, too.
[1:39:06] Okay, so your little sister had two drug addicts. one of whom wasn't talking to her and one of whom was tormenting her.
[1:39:12] Yeah you can put it that way.
[1:39:15] I'm sorry what's what is what is incorrect you.
[1:39:17] Can no no you i mean that's i just never consider myself as part of the problem but uh.
[1:39:23] You're absolutely part of the problem because neglect is a form of abuse right sure, okay so what did your parents do about the fact that their little girl was being tormented by two drug addicts and alcoholics. One tormented by not talking to her, and the other directly mentally torturing and abusing her.
[1:39:47] I would say about me, they didn't know at the extent or any of my activities. And my brother, I mean, my father was trying to protect her and was always fighting with him and yelling at him or trying to kick him out of the house or would fight with my mother. And then, of course, my mother would try to protect my brother and not want him to be kicked out of the house, not want him to be yelled at. That's something that, to this day, is still continuing. And he's almost 50 years old.
[1:40:24] Oh, your brother is still living?
[1:40:27] No, no, but the fight between my mother and my father about letting him just be a derelict.
[1:40:38] Where did you guys get the money for your alcohol and your drugs and your cigarettes?
[1:40:43] I worked. Well, we both worked. But later on, when he was in his 20s, he did work, but he was always asking for money from my mother and my father. I always have been financially stable. I just always took care of myself.
[1:40:58] And why did you stop talking to your sister when she was 15 or 16?
[1:41:03] As I remember, the specific thing that broke the camel's back was when I split up with my girlfriend of four years. And she said something like, no wonder she didn't want to marry you or something like that. And that was the last thing that I remember. And I just stopped speaking to her completely.
[1:41:25] But, I mean, was she wrong?
[1:41:27] No, that's why I'm laughing. No, she wasn't wrong. She was absolutely right.
[1:41:33] So have you apologized to her?
[1:41:36] I have, yeah.
[1:41:38] Has your brother apologized to her?
[1:41:42] I don't know. I know that they did have more of a connection than I did with either one of them for a period of time in the teens here, in the 2000 teens. But since then, she doesn't speak to him, I believe, anymore, because he continued the same patterns of abuse on Facebook and teasing her and joking with her. he.
[1:42:05] Publicly would denigrate.
[1:42:06] I think in private private messages or something I don't maybe on her wall he posted stupid things but yeah that would be public yes.
[1:42:15] It would be, And what's your relationship? You said you're not close now. What's your relationship with your siblings?
[1:42:24] With my brother, I spoke to him just in November when all of this happened. And then in December, January, he had a medical issue. So I called him to check up on him.
[1:42:36] But that's the first time, the first two times I've spoken to him since 2016. So that was almost eight nine years that i i haven't spoke to him wow and um my sister so i'm basically i think when when i i he never met my girlfriend wife girlfriend at the time and uh all the visits yeah my brother had never visited my never met with my girlfriend you know eventual wife they never met um my sister we have very cold relationship um it's since you know gotten better um but you know i i it's hard when so much water has gone gone over the bridge under the bridge um but we we communicated and mostly through my wife uh as far as my nephews and we were just at the baptism she asked me to be the godfather of the second son my brother is the godfather of the first son so they have a connection but um i know that it's not very close now and you know for example in november my sister checked up on me but i haven't heard from her since since november right and how long were you uh how.
[1:43:55] Long were you drinking and using drugs for.
[1:43:58] Well, I started drinking at a young age also when I was like 12 to 14, but not like him, but I was drinking little airplane bottles and grab a beer from the barbecues.
[1:44:12] And I didn't smoke, I didn't do any drugs or smoke anything until I was 17. and um but i i started really drinking when i first got drunk i remember i was in ninth grade when i had my first hangover and that was like 15 16 and we drink you know 40 40 ounce of old english uh back in the day but my drinking really took off of course i drank in america uh with my friends we would drink you know two to four beers going to bars, small beers like 333 milliliters 12 ounce beers so you would go to a bar you'd drink a couple beers and then either one of you would drive home or you would be sober enough to drive home, somebody would be designated driver either not drink at all or have a couple drinks and I was usually the driver so I didn't drink that much but I smoked a lot.
[1:45:06] From about 17, 18 through my 20s I just, I smoked on a daily basis, um, you know, marijuana, um, as far as acid, my, uh, was the, the, the, the hardest drug I did was LSD. And maybe that was maybe five to 10, maybe 10, 10 different times throughout 17 to 18 years old. but then i never i never i stopped it because i stopped hanging out friends and i had a girlfriend so i stopped uh maybe once or twice at a like a osby osborne concert or something, and uh but i smoked a lot and i drank beer but uh and from time to time i would drink you know some bottle of vodka or whiskey with my friends and we would just drink to get drunk not just for fun and you said you but that.
[1:45:52] Was still happening in washington back in the day.
[1:45:54] So when did you.
[1:45:57] When did you last get drunk?
[1:46:02] The last time I got drunk, the last time I drank alcohol was June of 2023. That was just beer that I had. I would say when I really stopped drinking to get drunk, it was June of 2020. June 21st, 2020.
[1:46:20] Wow, so you were like over 30 years drinking.
[1:46:23] Yeah, I drank a lot of 30. Yeah, yeah.
[1:46:28] You said 12 to 14, right?
[1:46:30] Yeah.
[1:46:32] 12 to 14 to early mid-40s.
[1:46:35] I drank heavily starting in about 2011. And that was, so I was 34. So from 34 until about 44, I guess, after about 10 years, I was really, really drinking heavily on a daily basis, hard alcohol.
[1:46:55] And that's why when I'm sort of asking you for, like alcohol is kind of an excuse machine, or it's a way of.
[1:47:02] Avoiding difficult.
[1:47:03] Things and so when i'm trying to get these contacts together like i need answers for this and you've given me.
[1:47:07] Circumstances that's.
[1:47:08] One of the reasons why we'd have to fight but that's all right okay so um why do you think you were drinking and doing drugs in your teens.
[1:47:23] Uh i guess my my uh family life was i mean i as i remember at the time it was you know it was, fun or cool and you know me and other friends we would get a hold of something and we would want to drink it and it was this idea that you were you know peer pressure or being cool um but at some point you know it just became i remember being exposed especially to the lsd it was through my brother and his friends and um oh your brother introduced you.
[1:47:54] To hot drugs.
[1:47:57] Well i i mean we we knew you know none of we let's say we got we me and my friends got it through him and his friends the only way that we had access so your brother introduced you so it's so funny right this is the funny thing this is like a pattern.
[1:48:11] In our conversation.
[1:48:12] Which is like you.
[1:48:14] Say something i repeat it back to you and then you shift it.
[1:48:18] Well no i know i know that that's true i've i've known that for for many years why don't you just yes okay yes hey.
[1:48:27] My i got i got.
[1:48:28] Lsd through my brother and.
[1:48:29] His friends so your brother introduced.
[1:48:30] You to.
[1:48:31] Hard drugs yes as opposed to well but like that's a strange thing it's like you tell me two and two makes four and I say so two and two makes four and you say well not really, It's just, it's a pattern, right?
[1:48:46] I would say the drinking as well. Yeah, it's a pattern. Okay. The drinking as well, it was from with him and his friends as well. It was just something that they all did. And, you know, I wanted, I was with my older brother and I wanted to, but then I also brought it with my group of friends. and i remember at the time you know recognizing that and um you know vocalizing it to my other friends that hey you know this is it all starts for my brother and his friends not that we couldn't have done it without him but so.
[1:49:23] I i don't know the answer of course in every situation or every circumstance but in general people end up drinking because they lack social skills, they don't know to have productive and enjoyable conversations with people. And so they get together and get shit faced.
[1:49:47] Yeah. That would, that would basically say, I mean, I would, that's how we were in our twenties and thirties. I mean, we would go to, you know, you go to a bar, you just, you have to sit down and you have, you have beers. I mean, now it's just, uh, abhorrent to think that I would do that or that I would even, do it now so you know i have no problem speaking to people now and communicating in fact i love to to talk with people and connect with them you remember what you're talking about i can't stand to speak with people who are under the influence now.
[1:50:18] Right and.
[1:50:19] Of course i know immediately.
[1:50:20] So did your parents when when you and i guess it's tough to know with your siblings although maybe you saw it with your sister did your parents have conversations with you when you were little.
[1:50:37] Little meaning before the drinking before.
[1:50:40] Oh yeah yeah no like i'm talking like yeah three four or five years old i mean you're the father of a five-year-old you know that they can have i can have really sorry still talking about it still talking yeah so uh you know that with your son like he's five i assume that he can chatter away like nobody's business right, yep okay so did your parents have conversations with you from like as early as you can remember.
[1:51:08] Not the way that I do with my son.
[1:51:11] Okay, of course, that's by definition. Of course, it's not exactly the same way that you would have with your son.
[1:51:17] I mean, we talk about religion, we talk about God, we talk about alcohol.
[1:51:21] No, I understand that. Hang on, hang on, hang on. I understand that it's different with you and your son. By definition, it would be, because you're not your parents. So, when you say, not the way that I have with my son, my question is what did your parents have conversations with you about when you were very little that you remember.
[1:51:42] Television television programs there's always television uh not sports my my parents were not into sports it was you know my mother was preoccupied with her work and uh different goings on in the in the office my father and i played video games nintendo and, on a nightly basis we always played so we would talk about the video games and the different you know sports teams that we built or the different strategies um i used to go to work with him so we would talk about his his uh his work and okay so we didn't really have conversations.
[1:52:21] Where you're bringing your sort of thoughts and ideas together you're commenting about what you're doing.
[1:52:26] Yeah Okay.
[1:52:29] So that's lacking conversational skills. And that's not any fault of yours, right? I mean, my parents didn't teach me Japanese, so I don't speak Japanese, right? So if you lack conversational skills, then you have to hang around with other people who lack conversational skills in order to cover all of that up. You have to do stupid stuff like drinks and drugs.
[1:52:57] Yeah, I mean, I played sports a lot with some of my friends, but then as I got into drinking and drugs, it was always about getting more alcohol.
[1:53:11] Well, and you notice, if you're around drunk people, how boring and stupid they are.
[1:53:17] Not when you're drunk, but when you're sober.
[1:53:19] No, but when you're, sorry, you were saying that you just can't stand being around drunk people anymore.
[1:53:25] No, yeah.
[1:53:25] And the insecurity and the lack of ability to connect with people is blindingly clear, which is why kind of everyone has to get drunk, because if you're sober around a bunch of drunk people, it's repulsive.
[1:53:40] Absolutely.
[1:53:40] Right so lack of connection skills lack of communication skills lack of conversational skills often leads to addiction because you know you you because you lack conversational skills you also don't necessarily have much of a conversation with yourself and that emptiness you want to kind of drown it out but you can't be around quality people because you don't know how to talk to them uh again through no fault of your own just your parents not talking to you And Lord knows we don't learn these things in school, so you just have to hang around with a bunch of other people who all want to self-erase and make loud noises for no purpose.
[1:54:22] I would just say that as a teenager, as a young man, I don't believe that I had a problem communicating as far as making friends. It's almost like I was just bored or addicted at some point.
[1:54:48] But you're not making friends if all you're doing is drinking together. That's not friendship. That's just shared addiction. That's just mutual addiction.
[1:55:00] Yeah, yeah.
[1:55:03] And so that's sort of my, the reason I'm going down this road is because I'm trying to figure out why you didn't share your troubles with people and thus lighten your load, right? With regards to your girlfriend slash wife, right? With regards to Svetlana, you didn't really, I mean, you talked to one friend who said, for God's sakes, run. You didn't talk about it with your father and you didn't talk about it with your siblings, really, and you didn't talk about it with your parents. And that's, I would assume, because your social life was not about sharing actual thoughts and ideas, but just around drinking and partying.
[1:55:41] Yeah.
[1:55:41] So you don't have the habit of talking to people about what's going on in your life in any particularly real or connected fashion, if that makes sense.
[1:55:51] Yeah, I do now. But at the time, I would say, yeah, I mean, it was just you would, even if you talked about what's going on in your life, you would meet for beers and talk about, you know, work or, you know, Moscow, whatever, whatever is going on in your life. But as far as family and friends back home, I did not communicate with them.
[1:56:12] Right okay okay got it all right all right so how's your son doing.
[1:56:24] As far as what happened in November, he's doing remarkably well. He's just a normal, happy little guy. I'm trying to get him to speak with a psychologist, looking for an English-speaking psychologist. I'm working with the local social worker that I'm in contact with to try to find somebody. But we've been sick January, February, so I just haven't done it. But I have to get him to speak with somebody. I'm speaking with a psychologist on a weekly basis. But in the beginning, he was having temper tantrums and hysterics, and he was hitting me.
[1:57:11] In the beginning of what?
[1:57:13] In November, in December, when she first left, he was very, very upset, especially after the phone calls, which is one of the reasons that I stopped them. But generally, he misses his mama, but he doesn't ask about her. I try to speak with him and try to get his feelings out and let him always know it's not his fault what happened, that it was between... his mother and I and, um, try to reassure him that I'm not going anywhere, that I'm not leaving him. He told me recently that he had nightmares that I went away. So, um, But generally, as I see, and I hope, he's adapting well to the situation without her.
[1:58:05] Sorry, he's got tantrums, he screams, and he's having nightmares, but he's doing well?
[1:58:11] Well, since, yeah, that was in November, December. Now, since January, February, there's been a marked improvement in his behavior and his, except for always being sick from school all the time, having a virus.
[1:58:30] Oh, yeah, no, this meant a nice about going around early this year, yeah.
[1:58:33] But as far as his, he's just much calmer and he's just, he's shows, you know, shares everything with me and we, you know, he has, he gets angry. I would say he gets angry very easily and we're working on that. And then just what happened today, just as you contacted me, which was kind of providential. He was mad at me because the TV wasn't working or something. And I was just trying to reload the modem or something. And he just got so angry at me and stomping around the house and saying bad things to me like, you know, your stupid papa. and I just said to him, you can't talk to me this way. And you know, I'm your father. You have, you have to just, just go in your room and calm down. And, uh, until I can figure out what's going on with the modem. But I mean, generally he will, he'll, you know, stop his feet and turn red and hold, you know, just give me the evil eye. But, but, um, I usually will, I don't know if it's right or not, but I enforce the fact that I'm his father and that I'm the source of discipline of the rules. And that, you know, you can't just speak to me that way. So he usually will calm down. Well, but he, hang on, sorry, sorry.
[1:59:59] He grew up seeing his mother speak to you that way and worse.
[2:00:05] Absolutely.
[2:00:07] So you've trained him to do that well i'm not sure why he's punished for something you trained him to see and to do.
[2:00:12] Yeah well i was punished i wanted to stop i want the behavior to stop i tell him that it's.
[2:00:19] Unacceptable you you trained him yeah because you were married to a woman who spoke to you appallingly and he was exposed to that he saw everything he saw right so you trained him to speak to you it's kind of like if i teach my if some guy teaches his daughter that the word for tree is is like a horrible swear word right and then would he punish her for, for using that swear word while pointing at a tree he.
[2:00:51] Might but it wouldn't be right.
[2:00:52] Well it'd be totally wrong so you loved a woman married a woman and loved a woman who spoke to you like that and now you're punishing your son for speaking to you like that i don't i mean i'm sorry maybe Maybe I'm missing something that I'm not processing, and I apologize if I am, but why would he be punished for what you taught him to do?
[2:01:10] I wouldn't say punished. It's more that I guess it's verbal punishment. I'm telling him that it can't happen. I'm trying to correct.
[2:01:20] No, no, but it did happen. What do you mean it can't happen? It happened for years with your wife and you. It's throwing, I assume, horrible verbal bombs at each other.
[2:01:31] Yeah. Yeah.
[2:01:33] So what do you mean it can't happen? It happened for years.
[2:01:36] I mean that it shouldn't be this way. It needs to stop.
[2:01:41] Okay. But you are responsible for him speaking to you that way because of the woman you chose to be his mother and the fact that you let the relationship continue in this horrible way for years. yes right i mean am i wrong i mean no i'm responsible everyone says to the kids well it's not your fault it's like okay well whose fault is it, is it is it your son's fault that he was exposed to years of verbal abuse between his parents.
[2:02:11] No it's mine and my wife's right.
[2:02:13] And she's not around so it's yours yeah okay so saying i'm your father you should respect me is incomprehensible to him because you let yourself be treated with immense disrespect for years in his formative years right, i mean the personality is largely set by the about the age of five or so, now that doesn't mean all habits or you know anything like that but the nature of the person is largely set around that time so that's what i'm sort of trying to figure out.
[2:02:49] I mean, if a man and his wife scream at each other, and then the child screams to get his way, how on earth would the child get punished? They're just doing what they were taught.
[2:03:05] I mean, I was more like trying to correct his behavior and saying that it's not acceptable to do that. As you said, I've already shown him that it is acceptable.
[2:03:16] No, hang on. Not only is it acceptable, you marry it.
[2:03:25] Yeah.
[2:03:26] No, no, seriously. You pursue it. You date it. You get engaged. You marry. You give it. Not only is it acceptable, it's the entire reason for his existence.
[2:03:35] Yeah.
[2:03:38] I mean, the honest thing, what would be the most honest thing you could say to your son if he calls you stupid?
[2:03:46] Yes, I am. I married your mother.
[2:03:49] Well, no, I wouldn't say that because then you have no credibility. But what's the most honest thing you could say to your son if he says you're a stupid daddy?
[2:04:00] It's not nice to call me stupid.
[2:04:03] No that's not it hurts my it hurts my feelings because you stayed you stayed with this mother who called you far worse the most honest thing to say would be in my opinion, we taught you your mom and i taught you that was okay we were totally wrong, yeah like i completely understand why you say that that's what you grew up with, and i accepted it and i put up with it and i in fact claimed to love it and i was not in my Right mind, I don't even know how to explain it because you're five, but I was totally wrong and your mom was totally wrong. This is not how we should talk to people, but we taught you wrong. So you're not to blame for this habit, but we got to try and figure out a way to undo what your mom and I did.
[2:04:55] Yeah, and we have had some kind of conversations along those lines, and he does know about my drinking because he's seen – I told him that I stopped drinking, and I told him alcohol is forbidden as he gets older. And I told him to try to teach him not to repeat the same mistakes that I made. So I do talk with him openly about – I don't know if it's the right age. Probably not. But I tell him, you know, there's just alcohol is forbidden and anyone who drinks alcohol, you know, just, just please, please stay away from them. And, you know, remember this as you get older. And he's seen pictures of me in the hospital with needles in my arms. He asked me, you know, what was, what was happening? And of course, of course, she's called me an alcoholic in front of him. And so, so we've, we've talked about, you know, my alcohol use and.
[2:05:46] Sorry, what did you put you in the hospital?
[2:05:49] I had pancreatitis from alcohol, you know, drinking too much. Acute pancreatitis when he was...
[2:06:01] Is that dangerous?
[2:06:02] Yeah, it was life-threatening, yeah.
[2:06:04] Oh, wow.
[2:06:05] That was the main reason that I stopped because my enzyme levels were so high. And so, you know, you continue to drink your pancreas, which is eating itself. and I did continue to drink but I that was my main impetus besides the baby but I actually even that was when she was pregnant with him and then even after he was born for the first, six months or so I did drink and, it's shameful but I do let him know that daddy had a problem with alcohol and that I don't drink it anymore And the reason was because I got very sick and, uh, and, uh, so I teach, I teach him to just have a very strong aversion.
[2:06:52] So you're quick because of health, not because of a commitment to your family or your son or anything.
[2:06:56] No. No, I wouldn't say that. Obviously, I was trying to quit for many years, and I just couldn't.
[2:07:06] No, no, but you finally quit because your health was in danger.
[2:07:08] When I finally quit, the final, no, I didn't quit when my health was in danger. I started the process before, I had started before, but I really quit for three, four, five months at a time, but I would go back to drinking heavily. uh and but when i really quit was when it was the reason i know it was june 20th of 2020 was because we had a huge fight and i sent her to her parents house and i um she she stayed there for about a month and somewhere in that month um i realized that i was going to lose my son i was to stop drinking completely and uh that's that's what i i did uh but that's another more to the story than that i started smoking in place of it um and then i would drink like one or two beers at a maximum um along with smoking and how much of your wife's.
[2:08:11] Complaints about you were founded upon you just not being there because you were drunk or stoned.
[2:08:16] Or hang.
[2:08:18] Or hung over.
[2:08:21] I mean, towards the end or, I mean, during the whole relationship?
[2:08:25] Well, you said you started drinking heavily in 2011, right?
[2:08:31] Yeah. So, before I met her.
[2:08:33] Before you met her.
[2:08:34] Yeah.
[2:08:35] So, you were drunk throughout the relationship?
[2:08:37] Absolutely.
[2:08:38] Okay. So, if you had quit drinking, do you think that, well, if you quit drinking, she probably wouldn't have wanted to be with you. But let's say you had quit drinking at some point over the relationship. um i assume that would have helped the relationship.
[2:08:52] I assume yeah, okay i mean we still have her problems it's you know you can stop drinking alcohol but if you still have somebody who's no.
[2:09:05] But she hated your drinking right.
[2:09:06] She she was not against it until uh until until we were until she was pregnant nope until the baby was absolutely false.
[2:09:16] Sorry unless I misunderstood something.
[2:09:19] It's from her mouth.
[2:09:20] Hang on. When you were in Washington, she got really angry and started drinking to show you how bad it was.
[2:09:26] Yeah.
[2:09:28] So she had a problem with it.
[2:09:31] She had a problem with me getting shit-faced drunk, but not just drinking because it was part of culture in Russia. It's a part of culture, drinking in Russia.
[2:09:40] Yes, I understand that.
[2:09:41] I would drink with her father.
[2:09:42] Okay. Do you think that I was talking about having a glass of wine at dinner? Oh, my God, man. you just make me work so hard it's crazy i mean this is this is just again this is just uh prevarication right i mean.
[2:09:53] So yes she had a problem with a problem with your drinking it became more extreme her her problem when you know like really when she was pregnant with the baby and when the baby came and why did you decide to have a baby she vocalized, because we were married and we were starting a family. That was the reason that we got married.
[2:10:16] Okay, so it wasn't an accident like you chose and you said, this is a great environment to bring a child into.
[2:10:25] No, we got married in 2018 and we immediately started to try to have a child.
[2:10:32] Right, so you thought this is going to work, this is a good environment to bring a child into.
[2:10:36] I did, I did, yeah.
[2:10:37] Okay, and you were still drinking at that time, of course.
[2:10:41] Yeah.
[2:10:41] And you drank throughout the pregnancy? And you drank after your son was born?
[2:10:46] Within the first year, I had the pancreatitis. So that was 2019, and the baby came in October. So from January to October, there were, you know, I drank for maybe one or two months of that period. And then when the baby came, I remember I was drinking in October as celebration, as stress, I don't know. but it got progressively worse and uh through the the pandemic came and it got progressively worse in march april may march april and then may i remember i was sober and then june was the final straw that i stopped drinking hard alcohol that was the last time that i drank whiskey or vodka or anything all.
[2:11:32] Right so uh is there anything else and.
[2:11:34] I really really do appreciate.
[2:11:35] The conversation and it's very illuminating. And is there anything else in particular that I could help you? Because, I mean, we've been talking for a good old chunk of time. And is there anything else in particular that I could help you with over the course of the conversation? And I really do appreciate the chat.
[2:11:49] I mean, all the nonsense of my former life and everything with my wife, I mean, it really doesn't matter. I mean, it matters, obviously, but it doesn't matter at this point.
[2:12:00] Right now, I'm focused on being the best single father I can for my son and not repeating the same mistakes for his life or that my parents made. just trying to stay emotionally grounded with him uh not not creating any more trauma and or helping him to deal with the situation that's that's really what i'm trying to do.
[2:12:25] And that's a great commitment i really and of course uh you mentioned you haven't read peaceful parenting hey man it's only been out for two years so yeah uh yeah so uh if you want to check it out of course it's peaceful parenting.com i would i would strongly recommend it as you would imagine the writer or the author would so yeah is there anything else.
[2:12:43] No i just just thank you for all the work that you do and and for you know helping us to to to grow as people and protect children that that's that's really the most important thing as you thank.
[2:12:56] You so much i really.
[2:12:57] Appreciate that and.
[2:12:58] Yeah do keep me posted about how it's going and i certainly wish you the very best.
[2:13:01] Okay i'll read i'll read the book or listen to the book and hopefully take some take and things from it. Thanks again, Stef.
[2:13:09] Fantastic. Thanks for the chat, man. Take care.
[2:13:11] Okay.
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