0:00 - Opening Remarks
1:17 - Life Challenges
2:02 - Childhood Reflections
4:13 - The Impact of Neglect
9:07 - Parental Dynamics
9:57 - Family Struggles
21:41 - Health Issues
37:48 - Anxiety and Control
39:09 - The Search for Understanding
1:03:11 - Coping Mechanisms
1:11:52 - Relationship Difficulties
1:13:38 - Career Aspirations
1:25:51 - Job Hunting Struggles
1:59:09 - The Impact of Family Dynamics
2:13:27 - Embracing Potential and Possibilities
2:25:00 - Moving Forward and Finding Purpose
In a deeply revealing conversation, Stefan engages with a young caller grappling with feelings of inadequacy and failure at age 23. The caller expresses a pervasive sense of being a "screw up" in life, citing unemployment, dropping out of college, and struggles in dating as key concerns. Stefan reassures him that many people experience these feelings, suggesting that age should be a factor in how he perceives his situation—as there are those in their 40s and 50s who feel similarly lost.
The discussion evolves as the caller reflects on his childhood and family dynamics. He describes his parents as neglectful rather than abusive, and Stefan highlights the serious implications of neglect, indicating that it can be as damaging as physical abuse. The caller opens up about growing up in a middle-class household where tension was palpable, particularly after traumatic events like his mother's serious illness linked to a rare condition called achalasia, which made swallowing difficult. The caller shares that this illness arose during the 2008 financial crisis, contributing to a tense household atmosphere.
Stefan dives deeper into how the caller's upbringing shaped his current feelings, likening the emotional struggles of neglected children to how someone would feel trying to navigate a foreign culture without guidance. The caller reluctantly admits to feeling left behind and incompetent compared to peers, a sentiment Stefan connects to the harmful effects of his upbringing, where love and support seemed scarce.
As the conversation progresses, the caller indicates that he often feels pressure from family members. This is compounded by their expectations and judgments regarding his career and life choices. The caller reveals that his father, often away due to work, had little involvement in family life, which contributes to a feeling of inadequacy lingering from childhood. When pressing the caller for details about his parents' relationship, Stefan discovers that the father had an affair, shedding light on the dysfunctional family dynamics further, including how they influence the caller’s inability to assert himself.
The caller discusses his attempts to break through this cycle, revealing internalized feelings of shame and failure. He experiences both moments of self-doubt and periods of optimism, realizing that he has not actively sought to leverage his potential due to fear of failure. The dialogue shifts toward actionable possibilities, with Stefan encouraging the caller to view life as a blank slate where he can pursue passions, particularly in the cryptocurrency space, suggesting it could provide a fulfilling avenue for work and self-expression.
Throughout the interview, Stefan works to dismantle the caller's self-critical mindset, emphasizing that failure is an integral part of personal growth and exploration. He argues, very compellingly, that many of the caller's feelings of being a "loser" are largely influenced by a household that offered little emotional guidance or support. He encourages the caller to take ownership of his journey and to see opportunities where he can cultivate his interests, even if they diverge from what his family might typically consider a safe or stable career path.
As they near the end of the conversation, the caller experiences a noticeable shift in his attitude, affirming a more positive outlook on his future prospects. He recognizes the need to redefine how he relates to his past; to view constraints not as a prison but as aspects of the journey that inform his choices moving forward. Attaining a new mindset that aligns with his interests, particularly in crypto, becomes a tangible goal rather than just a dream deferred.
The dialogue provides insightful awareness not only into the repercussions of neglect and parental expectations but also highlights how a reframing of one's perspective can open up exciting possibilities for a brighter future. Stefan urges the caller to harness his natural strengths and passions towards a fulfilling career path, which he realizes must diverge from both family expectations and the limiting beliefs he has adopted over the years.
[0:00] Well, uh, of course I appreciate, uh, the time we can spend together today. I'm fully dedicated doing my very, very best to help. And, uh, I'm all ears about what's going on.
[0:11] Uh, yeah. Um, I guess, uh, I've been thinking about it the last couple of days and, uh, when it really just comes down to it, I just, uh, feel like I'm like, uh, uh, a screw up in life. Life um and uh yeah i guess that'd be the simplest way to put it.
[0:32] Well um tell me more about that.
[0:38] Yeah i mean uh i kind of wrote it down a little bit in the in the email i sent you but uh.
[0:43] That was a little fake so i'm happy to be you said the sort of three areas and so on but uh i'm happy to hear and and you know you're only 23 so i have people calling me in their 40s and 50s uh who who feel they haven't done much with their life. So you're still ahead of the curve to a large degree, but I'm all ears to hear about the mess-ups.
[1:05] No, yeah, of course. It's just like, you know, so many times you'd be talking to people, and you'd be like, well, why didn't you call sooner? And I was, I know I heard that for like the fourth time. I was like, yeah, well, I'm not just going to call now.
[1:17] But, yeah, I don't know. I just, I'm unemployed right now. Um you know i dropped out of college you know um i haven't had a lot of success dating, uh stuff like that um yeah and i just uh i don't know i definitely feel like, i should be doing better i guess uh yeah.
[1:44] Okay so which one do you want to tackle first well we could do history and then each specific thing, or we could do a specific thing and then history?
[1:53] Um... Yeah i don't know um i guess uh i guess whatever you think would be whatever you think would be best okay.
[2:03] Let's do general childhood.
[2:08] Uh yeah so um yeah like i said 23 years old um, i guess uh the first thing you'll probably want to know is like yeah my parents weren't you know uh they weren't like super abusive or anything i would probably just characterize them as neglectful more than anything else um just your you know sorry just.
[2:33] Just i hate interrupting you right at the beginning but neglectful is super abusive.
[2:39] No yeah i'm sorry i meant physically uh i guess yeah but.
[2:43] Physical abuse is the least least, damaging abuse. Right, sexual abuse number, in my hierarchy, right, I don't have any proof of this, but sort of what I've seen, talked about, experienced and seen, is that sexual abuse is the worst, neglect is the next worst, emotional abuse is the next worst, and physical abuse is the least worst. So I just wanted to at least tell you where I'm coming from as far as all of that goes, but I get what you're saying, they didn't like, you know, break your arms with bats and and stuff like that which is great but uh and that that would be pretty pretty terrifying and terrible but the neglect stuff is really really tough because that really leaves a mark and you drift and you don't know you have to invent everything in life on your own because you didn't it'd be like a you know if you're raised by wolves and then you have to try and figure out like you're rescued when you're 15 and you have to try and figure out how to learn language and move in society and like it would be just a massive amount of work and it would feel like a, like a cliff way too high to get up and over. It would just be debilitating in a way because we're like, oh my God, everything's so exhausting. I have to learn everything. Everything that, you know, when you see.
[4:01] You know, like people who grew up in, like white people, say, who grew up in Japan, and they speak fluent Japanese, and I think about how long it would take for me to learn Japanese, like in a fluent way.
[4:13] I mean, probably be like five or 10 years of intense study to learn Japanese and it's like they just grew up with it and so when you dropped into society and you've been neglected everything's exhausting everything just looks like oh my god so much effort because all of the stuff and I'm aware of this as a parent now myself having been a very involved father how much knowledge and morality and life strategies I've transferred to my daughter and which weren't transferred to me and it's amazing just how much effect neglect has on the amount of effort it takes to get things done versus people who had involved parents who cared about them and transferred knowledge and values to them so uh i just sort of wanted to to point that out that that's one of the effects is just everything looks like this massive high dangerous cliff even basic things and it's uh it's debilitating in a lot of ways i'm not saying that's exactly the case with you but i'm just saying that is generally the effect of neglect is to make everything seem or feel incredibly difficult virtually impossible and kind of humiliating.
[5:31] It's kind of humiliating it feels for a lot of people i know that was the case for me it feels kind of humiliating when you you go out into the world where everyone's been raised way better than you are, or most people have been raised way better, you go out into the world and you just feel like, I don't know, kind of dumb and incompetent and left behind and so on. Like you faked your way into it. I remember being in an orchestra when I used to play violin, and I didn't have nearly as much time to practice. I lived in a small apartment with my mother and she hated the sound of violin. So where was I supposed to go? I was supposed to busk on a street corner or something at the age of 12. So I didn't really get much chance to practice. So honestly, there'd be times I'd be back in the orchestra, I wouldn't even touch my bow string to the strings. To the strings. Like I would just keep it above because I just like, I couldn't, I was just faking it.
[6:36] And there's a lot of that in society where people, kids who are neglected are just, everyone else has got this sort of fluid way of moving through the world because they've been taught and trained and instructed. And the neglected kids, everything is kind of exhausting. Everything is a massive amount of effort. Everything feels kind of humiliating because you feel like you have to fake it. Otherwise, everyone's going to know just how little your parents cared about you. And that's going to transmit to the new people. And then you're You're going to spend your whole life with people not caring about you. It's, yeah, it's almost like a wasting disease or, you know, Epstein-Barr or chronic fatigue syndrome or something where, like, everything just feels exhausting. And you just have to kind of push your way through life through sheer willpower and cover up how little you know and how little you were cared about. And anyway, I don't want to go on a huge rant when I'm asking you about your life. But to me, that's one of the, and that, you know, if you don't deal with it and sort of recognize how much harm was done by this neglect, you know, like, if you just imagine, like, a lion family, right? And if the lion family, like if the lion dad, right, he's got sons, if the lion dad, you know, cuffs his lions around and, you know, snarls at them all the time and so on, but at least he teaches them how to hunt.
[8:05] Okay, well, they'll survive and they'll reproduce. juice but if oh and and at least the lion cubs will know how lion society works so to speak.
[8:19] But if he just abandons them, doesn't show any interest in them, doesn't interact with them much at all, then they grow up not knowing how to hunt, not knowing how to mate, not knowing how to be in a way that is attractive to the females. And so if there's no knowledge transfer from the dad lion to the son lion, I mean, that's kind of it, right? I mean, for the blood lion, that's why they do teach their kids how to hunt, and they They do play hunt with them, as do the moms and so on, right? So without that knowledge transfer, I mean, it's more dangerous to your reproduction to be neglected than it is to be abused. Because then you're like a lion cub who doesn't know how to hunt. And trying to figure out how to hunt when you're hungry is a virtually impossible task.
[9:07] Sorry if that was too lengthy and analogously inclined, but that's sort of what I'm thinking.
[9:15] No no i got i get what you're saying yeah um no it's like i'll i'll talk with my older brother so much we'll be like i mean like we were like raised by youtube like we just like our parents just did not it feels like teach us anything it's just it blows us away um so.
[9:32] What was so i mean what was going on in your in your household when you were little that that like what was going.
[9:42] On with your.
[9:42] Parents that they didn't just.
[9:45] Didn't do any of this were they.
[9:48] Depressed were they workaholics were they addicts like what what was going it's so weird to me that people have kids and then ignore kids they're just.
[9:58] Strange yeah i know it's crazy like i'll just be like at church and i'll see like kids and i'm like how do people like have kids and they're not like them like it just it completely blows my mind but But no, I mean, we grew up, you know, like middle class. And my father, he was just gone a lot because, you know, he had like a sales job. And so he would just be traveling for that constantly.
[10:19] And sorry, I hate to be annoying as well. I hate to interrupt you again. But if you could stop with the giggling, because none of this stuff is funny at all. Like you giggling about my brother was raised by you two. Ha ha ha. My travel. My father was traveling a lot. Ha ha ha. And just a few, because this is really sad stuff, right?
[10:36] Yeah. Yeah.
[10:36] And I'm not saying you've got to bawl from morning to night, but the giggling or the laughter is, don't do that in life as a whole, because it'll draw dangerous people to you.
[10:54] Because if you're laughing about that, which is sad, it's telling people you don't have any access to anger, and when you don't have any access to anger, people will move in to exploit you.
[11:07] So I hate to be like the dead lion or something, but when you're talking about being hugely mistreated and you giggle or laugh, you will invite people in to exploit you. That's one of the reasons I push back so hard against people who do that, because it's, I mean, it's disconcerting in the conversation as a whole, but it's also very dangerous in the world as a whole, because there are lots of people, there are always predators around you, right? This is just life as a whole, like 10 to 20% of people, they're just kind of cruel and vicious, according to some research. And so there are always predators around you, and they're always sniffing the air looking for people without access to anger. Because people who have access to anger will identify the predators and push them away before they get too close. And don't put those signals out, because then you go from neglect to being exploited. Disappointed and uh so sorry if you want to keep going again i i promise not to interrupt this much but i just really wanted to get because that was happening a lot and i'm sure you've heard me talk about that with other callers but uh do your best to try and avoid laughing about having been, severely mistreated so okay so your father traveled a lot uh what what uh industry was he in.
[12:33] He was he was in like corporate accounts for some you know fortune 500 company something like that so yeah just like your typical salesman what you would think corporate job that sort of thing.
[12:48] How long was he gone like how often.
[12:51] Um it's I mean it definitely varied depending on the year but I mean, it was I know there was like some years where he was like not in I'm sorry I feel like I'm so.
[13:14] Did the reason why you gapped out there you felt that right, okay so the reason why you gapped out there was you put out another, marker which would draw predators to you, which is, I asked a general question and you said, well, I can't give you a specific answer.
[13:41] So if I say, are you in general overeating, and you say, well, I didn't yesterday, that's a mark of defensiveness and avoidance. So when I say, how often or how long was your father gone over the course of your childhood, and you tell me it varies, well, of course it varies. I understand that. I'm just talking in general. If he was gone one day a month, on average, that's one thing. If he sometimes was gone two or three weeks a month, that's different, right? So when I ask you a general question spanning the whole of your childhood, and you say, well, it varies, that's because you're stalling. That's because you don't want to answer the question, or rather your inner father doesn't want you to answer the question. Because when I start questioning you about your father, I start talking to your father's defenses against the truth, right so so it is it is when I ask a question and this is not a criticism of you of course right I'm just sort of pointing it out so when I ask a question like well how long or how often was your father gone and you said well it varies and it's like well yeah right so that's just stalling right because obviously it varies yeah.
[15:00] Of course you're you're right if if I'm being as honest as or recalling correctly it was like half the time i would say.
[15:07] So he was gone half the time so two weeks a month on average right comes and goes i'm sure over the course of your childhood, he was gone and how was he when he was back or when he was there um.
[15:23] Well of course you know with the whole you know corporate business thing i mean he's always answering emails and conference calls and stuff even when he's not at work um so there was that too but um yeah he wasn't um.
[15:43] I guess I would say about both my parents is they never, as far back as I can remember, seemed to like each other. Sorry again. Yeah, to like each other at all. They didn't fight that much. I can certainly remember times where they would get into arguments, but they would never do it in front of us and it would never be violent or anything like that. But yeah they just I I wondered a lot as I got older like why why did they even like get married and have kids like they just don't even seem to enjoy each other's company or be interested in each other at all and my my older brother he, I asked him about it if you know like before I was born if things were different he's like he he said he remembers that the exact same way that they never seem interested in each other, you know, or him very much.
[16:48] So, yeah, that's mainly what I'd say it was like, even when he was back home. It's just, you know, at best, it was just, you know, we'd like all watch TV or something, you know, or, you know, occasionally I'd, you know, play basketball with my dad or something like that. But I mean, most of the time, especially when I got older, um, it just, I just remember being so tense all the time in my house, just so much tension anytime I was around my parents at all.
[17:23] Ah, that's interesting. So tell me more about that tension.
[17:28] Yeah so it i remember it starting um around the like 2008 financial crisis um you know obviously, oh lastly um obviously that caused a lot of stress you know for everyone um but at the same time uh, my mother she uh i guess developed would be the right term she developed this one in a hundred thousand uh disease um that it made her unable to swallow food a lot of the time um and uh so she, yeah she just physically could not swallow food uh she would just regurgitate it um and so you know uh sorry what.
[18:18] Was the uh what was the illness i mean i've heard of that from a psychological standpoint and i'm not putting your mother into this category the reason i'm asking is i do remember seeing a documentary on a woman who had been forced to perform oral sex as a child on men and as a result she did not ingest food she actually injected it through a stent directly into her stomach uh and and i'm not saying this is the case with your mother but that's sort of what popped into my mind so but if there's i'm not sure what was the illness that she couldn't swallow yeah.
[18:57] So it's uh it's called achalasia which i'm aware is the most fake sounding thing you've ever heard of um every time i've ever told anyone about this they immediately are like that sounds so made up um but i actually uh i got notes from wikipedia so i could just read off to you real quick because it's i mean it's no one it's a it's a one in a hundred thousand disease no one's ever heard of it and it's it's very odd so i thought you would want to know about it um, so yeah i can i can read that to you if you'd like sure yeah so um, Yeah, achalasia is a failure of the smooth muscle fibers to relax, which can cause the lower esophageal sphincter to remain closed. When it opens, this is where it allows food to come into the stomach. It closes to avoid stomach acid from coming back up. Hopefully understood. Cause of the disease is unknown, as are factors that increase risk of its appearance. Some people think it's genetically transmissible. Let's see. yeah it's it's a one in a hundred thousand thing um and uh.
[20:05] So it's not okay so symptoms.
[20:08] Yeah i don't i.
[20:09] Mean it's a disorder of some kind but if muscles don't relax, right i mean i sort of i don't mean to trivialize it but i mean when i occasionally will get a massage you know they're like oh this this part of your body is really tense or whatever it is I mean, it's just because I exercise and sometimes I don't stretch enough or whatever. So my muscles are tense and they have to work the knots and so on. But that's not a disease. My muscles not relaxing is not a disease.
[20:46] Yeah, I honestly could not tell you.
[20:49] Sorry, is it below the act of swallowing? It sounds like this is part of the valve that keeps stomach acids from coming back up. Yeah so is it is it below the level of the muscles that control swallowing like physically lower in the body yes.
[21:08] Yes it's at the very bottom part of your esophagus that is at the very top of your stomach.
[21:14] Okay so it's not that she couldn't swallow it's just that there was a valve that remained clenched or didn't didn't relax is that right so so the food couldn't go into her, like it stayed tight, which prevents the stomach acid from coming out. But, but, but, but so she couldn't get food into her stomach because that, that muscle remained clenched. Is that right?
[21:41] Yes.
[21:42] Okay. Okay. Interesting. And this was a relatively new development, right? right yeah.
[21:50] She as far as i remember it would like it was right around the time of the 08 financial crisis it completely showed up out of nowhere um.
[22:03] So and in a time of maximum stress a muscle wouldn't unclench yeah.
[22:10] I i always or not always but as i got older i always thought it was some sort of psychosomatic thing where it's definitely has a physical element to it but it's i always thought it was a stress related thing i've never heard any doctor say that and you know my parents never said that but that that's what it sounds like to me.
[22:31] Well there's a there's a huge war i mean just just by the by you know i hope you relax we're gonna have a nice long chat here sorry to be annoying but there's a huge war between women and doctors and the war is that doctors say this is psychosomatic and women fight like hell to say that the doctors are wrong, there's tons of exceptions right but you've probably heard or read off online that the women who say you know i went to 12 doctors and every doctor told me that my problem was psychosomatic that it was stress but it turns out i have this big xyz actual physical genetic, disease problem and and the doctors were wrong and they just laughed at me and dismissed me and told me it was stress but in fact it was like you know this kind of stuff right.
[23:34] Yeah, of course, yeah.
[23:35] Right, and so, and this is more true for women, though it certainly does happen to men, but this is more true for women, that the women have ailments which can't, like, it's not a regular ailment. Sorry, this sounds all kind of bizarre, right? It's not a regular ailment. It's not like, oh, you have an infection. Here's some antibiotics. Oh, you broke your arm. here let me put it back together for you and put you in a cast or you know you have a tumor we're going to take it out and we're going to biopsy it and like so regular old ailments there's um, and women tend to do this more i think for various reasons and not do it like consciously but there are women who have ailments for which there is no easy easy answer and there is no there's no known causality. So when I hear disease, I think of, you know, generally either bacteria, viruses, or cellular reproduction at an abnormal level, like a tumor or a cancer or something like that.
[24:47] So it's something that is, or autoimmune, like the immune system is attacking itself self or whatever it is. So there is those sorts of problems. And this battle has been going on for thousands of years where women say, I have a genuine physical ailment.
[25:08] And nobody, even with all the modern technology, they cannot find a cause, and they cannot find a cure. And the woman in general can't find relief.
[25:21] And of course at times absolutely at times it is the case that the women have genuine, ailments and they get really angry at the doctors when the doctors say this is psychosomatic.
[25:40] And that's really tragic. But the question is, why do doctors often say to women that there's no physical cause, they need to try talking to a therapist, they need to try doing some kind of stress management, they need to figure out what's going on in their mind, which may be showing up in the body. I mean, the mind-body connection is very strong. Dysfunctions in the mind will often end up as dysfunctions in the body that feel like they're coming from the body. And so there's this war, and the war is, and I understand both sides of it. I understand the woman who say, you know, the doctors told me I was depressed and just needed to work on my, handling my stress and anxiety, and it turned out I had a tumor on my, I don't know, pituitary gland. Oh, I don't know. I'm just making things up here. Whatever, right? Some issue. Thyroid issue that, you know, and listen, that's all.
[26:41] But those tumors tend to show up and I mean usually people have had their ultrasounds, they've had their CAT scans, their MRIs or whatever so normally they'll show up and get treated. So women a lot of and you could say neurotic or whatever but women who have ailments that science can't figure out they will insist that it's a real ailment and they're kind of in a battle. On the other side though there are a bunch of doctors who get kind of exhausted when women keep showing up in their office with ailments for which there is no cause or cure that don't show up on any tests now of course i'm not saying that i mean your mother's esophageal issue of course that's a real thing and and so on right but the question is why is the muscle clenching right why is the muscle muscle clenching, and not relaxing. And if it's just genetic, well, I don't know how the genetics would show up. And maybe it's a genetic predisposition that shows up in a time of stress. You know, if you pull a chain hard enough, you will find the weakest link. But the chain didn't break because of the weakest link. The chain broke because you pulled on it so hard.
[27:58] And so it could be that stress shows up in different people's bodies in different ways. Depending on a wide variety of, pretty much an infinite variety of factors. And so maybe this was just the way that stress manifested in your mother, or maybe it was genetic, or maybe there was some other thing. But I just sort of wanted to point out that there has been this battle. As long as there's been medicine, there's been this battle between mostly women and doctors, where the women say, I have a real ailment, and the doctors say, I can't find anything. I mean, we've scanned your entire body top to bottom. and we've run every blood test we can find, and there's nothing. And therefore...
[28:40] It's either something genetic, which we can't possibly figure out, or it might have something to do with stress or something to do with the mind. And certainly stress within the mind can manifest in physical ailments. I mean, I think that's a fairly known thing. But there is this general battle where women say, it's a physical ailment, and the doctors say, we've run every conceivable test and scan and everything that we can think of, and we can't find anything. And the women are like, well, just keep looking. It's in there. And then the women get reinforced by all these stories where the women say, after the 13th doctor finally figured out that I had a gluten allergy. I don't know, whatever it is, right? And given the rise in chronic ailments, particularly in America, but throughout the West as a whole, this is a big battle. And maybe this manifested in your family in some way. So, sorry, again. So when you say disease, I have a particular, I think, okay, Okay, so the pathogen, the issue, and so on has been identified, but as far as I understand it, they never said, oh, you have a bacterial infection in your muscle which is causing it to spasm, or they never did find any particular cause or foreign agents or autoimmune, or is that right?
[30:03] No, it was nothing like that, and yeah, I could not tell you why they called it a disease. disease that's just what you know that's what it says on like wikipedia and that's how it was always talked about when i was a kid but yeah i do not i i'm i'm not a doctor i could i have no idea why it's that way um.
[30:18] I'm always also skeptical that everything gets categorized as a disease these days alcoholism is a disease really i'm not sure it's a disease if you can quit it by not drinking alcohol like that doesn't seem like a addiction is a disease like there's there's just And I think that's because people have more sympathy for victims of disease than they do for people who are not managing stress very well. So, how was your mother's personality or character as a whole?
[30:58] Yeah, I would say she was very neurotic. Yeah, that would be... You used that word earlier, and yeah, that would be the way I would put it. Yeah, I can't... I can't remember very many points in my childhood where she seemed happy ever or energetic or anything like that. It was always worrying about things and, you know, of course, things she can't control, stuff like that. um so yeah that would be the main way i would describe my mother's neurotic so especially so yeah.
[31:32] Give me some sort of more concrete examples obviously i'm not doubting you i just want to make sure that we're working from the same some similar data set.
[31:41] Yeah so one good example would be uh she has a huge fear of bridges um like whenever, you know because you're just driving on the highway you cross bridges all the time she would just always get super tense over it and there would be like please tell me she didn't.
[31:59] Have an even greater fear of bridges that open and close like let raise and lower.
[32:03] Uh no not that i think of okay because that would be similar to.
[32:07] Her esophageal issue but anyway go on.
[32:09] Yeah i guess um but uh yeah i can remember one nearby where we where we lived when we were younger that was like super narrow or something out of her her reasoning never made any sense to me but it was super narrow And one time she was like crying because she was so nervous to go over this bridge. And it just was, I mean, it just, as I got older, it just drove me crazy. Cause it just, I could not understand how this could be so scary to an adult, but I guess, I don't know.
[32:41] Um, what was her story about why did she say, I know it's crazy and I'm going to work on it. Or did she say, um, no, it makes sense because like, what was her story about this?
[32:54] I, I, I think anytime I would bring it up when I was older, she'd just say, well, you know, there's nothing I can really do about it. It's just, it's just some phobia I have, you know?
[33:06] Oh, so she never really tried to say that there's any rational reason behind it.
[33:11] No, no. It was just, there would just be so many things she would worry about and it would be completely out of her control. And well hang on going over.
[33:23] The bridge to some degree is within her control right you can drive a different route or she could just not join you in the car or something like that right.
[33:30] Yeah yeah yeah.
[33:31] So what do you.
[33:32] Mean about this.
[33:33] I mean of course stuff outside of your control but what do you mean by that.
[33:36] I it's hard to think of a concrete example but i i can just remember so so many times when i was a teenager where she would be concerned about something that just seems, you know either it was just a ridiculous concern or there was nothing that to be could be done about it anyways um i would just say to her like i mean you know the sun could just explode at any time like what is i i don't get your point like i'm not gonna start freaking out about something that's just completely out of my control that just achieves nothing um like stuff that would would be to do with school or something i don't know she'd be she'd be worried about how oh you're not studying for this test what if you fail and it's like mom i've like never failed the test in my life i don't think i'm gonna fail this one you know and she'd just go on and on about it well hang on but that's something she could.
[34:28] Do something about right so you could sort of try and convince you to do more studying again i'm not disagreeing with you i just want to make sure i understand your perspective so.
[34:37] She could do something about.
[34:38] Whether you studied or not or at least she could try.
[34:40] Yeah that was that was a really bad example but i i could just remember so many times where it just yeah it it just seemed completely irrational and and just neurotic that was okay always had thought about it right.
[34:56] And so you as a rational young man trying to deal with and i can't obviously diagnose anyone but it sounds like an anxiety disorder we'll just use this in a colloquial amateur sense right but trying to deal with a neurotic woman's anxiety disorder is impossible you can't do it i mean even.
[35:22] Trained professionals.
[35:23] Can have a tough time with that and the treatment can take a long time and the woman has to be highly motivated, so you you can't right it's like trying to take out someone's appendix right i mean maybe you've We've seen it a couple of times on TV, but it is not something that certainly a teenager can do.
[35:46] Yeah, no, I gave up eventually.
[35:49] Yeah, and people, it's funny too, and again, maybe it's a bit more women, but people who worry about things they can't control never seem to notice that their worry is within their control. Right? Like anxiety, you know, with a good therapist, I mean, anxiety can be significantly helped. So they keep worrying about things outside of their control, but they never seem to notice, even though they can look it up pretty quickly, right? Especially with the internet. Now right your mother can just say uh treating anxiety right and and she could get a lot of pretty good information about the best approaches and so on right so so that it's really essential to me and maybe this is helpful to you maybe you've already crossed this bridge so to speak but it's really essential for me to figure out who is who wants to change their problems and who is in love with their problems.
[36:49] In other words, their problems have become a core part of their identity and they won't give them up. Like you could pay them a million dollars and they wouldn't give them up. And it's sort of incomprehensible to me because I view problems as things to be solved or alleviated or avoided. But there are a lot of people who, I mean, I mean, they really are in love with their problems, and they won't give them up. Because, you know, if your mother really wanted to solve the anxiety, I mean, did she admit that she had a problem with anxiety?
[37:24] Um, I don't think so.
[37:28] I think you'd remember that.
[37:31] Yeah, I can't recall if her ever, maybe she would if we were pointing out in the moment how ridiculous a certain worry would be or something. But she never, she certainly never took any attempts to, you know, get better with it or anything like that.
[37:48] So if she ever did admit it, it was just to shut down the conversation in the moment.
[37:53] Okay so and what were her um what they call secondary gains right so what benefits did she get out of her neurosis because people have these attitudes uh or these approaches to life and they refuse to solve these problems usually because there are benefits to them that uh accrue was with their there might have to be some benefits to to your mom for being this anxious.
[38:24] Um i, i guess just you know the first thing that comes to mind from you've spoken with other people is it's just a way to control everyone.
[38:37] Wow you are a smart young man yes absolutely a lot of cruel people cover up their bullying with supposed anxiety. Like, so, it's a way for them to get their way, right? It's a way to dominate others. In the same way that illness can be that way as well. Illness is a way to dominate others. And, you know, there's the massive tragedies in people's lives when they want things, but don't know how to get them in an honorable fashion. And they end up just bullying and manipulating and playing the victim and, and so on.
[39:09] Right. And nagging. And it's just like, oh God, just, just, just negotiate for what you want from an honorable standpoint. But it seems to be beyond the reach for a lot of people.
[39:21] Yeah. I mean, she, I, I certainly really can't think of anything else she got out of it. Um, yeah, it. Yeah it really just a lot of the time there seemed to be no rational reasoning for it whatsoever and it just was a way to yeah i guess control us or something i don't i don't know it's hard to it's hard to say but okay so tell me a little bit more about i'm.
[39:46] So sorry go ahead.
[39:46] I i should also add because um i didn't really ever get to it but uh the whatever it was psychological, thing disease i don't know um who knows if anyone knows um it was very bad for her health um she oh the.
[40:06] You mean the anxiety or the worry.
[40:07] Uh no the the achalasia um oh okay.
[40:12] Yeah because i mean how's she gonna get food into her belly.
[40:14] Yeah so um first off um you know every time not every time But I guess actually at one point before it was diagnosed, it was pretty much every time she'd eat, she'd end up just throwing up. And it was just horrible to watch. It was very hard to watch that. it but um.
[40:40] I'm sorry and and my apologies again i'm just sort of coming in from the outside here uh but that evolve sorry that involve closing off doesn't that mean that acid can't come up from her stomach.
[40:55] Uh yeah but it's not a it's not the stomach acid it's that there's so much uh chest pain from the like expansion of the esophagus that you would just end up like it said that there's like nausea from the throwing up it's just uh like they just cannot help themselves they just have to regurgitate the food um.
[41:16] But again i'm sorry so i thought that the muscle tension or the muscle clenching prevented food from going into the stomach so how would she be able to throw up and again i'm not doubting anything you're saying i just want to make sure i understand some of the mechanics at least as best i can i.
[41:32] Don't know exactly um i guess it's sort of just like a driving thing i don't i don't know it's uh.
[41:40] Well so the food get into her stomach and then she threw up because if i understand this right to throw up that valve would have to be open right no.
[41:49] I guess maybe throw up at the right term because no it would not enter her stomach at all it would be in the esophagus and sit there and build up and then.
[41:59] Oh so just regurgitate more than throw up right so it's not a belly throw up where the food is coming out from the stomach because it didn't get past the muscle knot is that right yeah okay again i'm sorry to be so nitpicky i just want to make sure i i understand a little bit about the the ailment or the dysfunction okay so she would try to eat the food would build up above her esophagus and she basically regurgitated and wouldn't gain any nutritional value is that right.
[42:25] Yeah so i mean it was just so.
[42:29] How did she how did she live.
[42:34] That's when I was, uh, I mean, three weeks with no nutrition.
[42:36] You're dead, right?
[42:39] Yeah. I mean, she was able to eat, um, sometime it was just, uh, yeah, very difficult. And, uh, for, I think it was about a year and a half. Uh, it's hard to remember. She, she just lost, I mean, such a ridiculous amount of weight, uh, weight. Um, but yeah, she was just basically starved because, uh, yeah, she got absolutely no, No nutrition.
[43:05] No, no. She can't have gotten no nutrition. I mean, listen, I'm sympathetic with your feelings. I'm not skating past the fact that you're very emotional at the moment. But she can't. I mean, you know, three, three, three, right? What kills you? Three minutes without air, three days without water, three weeks without food.
[43:21] Yeah, I guess it was more of just she wasn't able to, you know, get enough to, you know, maintain a healthy weight at all. Because when it finally was, you know, diagnosed or whatever, yeah, they said she was extremely dangerously, like, underweight. And she was not that weight, you know, two years prior.
[43:50] So she lost weight over two years before it was diagnosed? I mean, sorry, how old were you during this time? And I'm really sorry. This is a terrifying, terrifying situation to be going through. And how old were you at this time?
[44:09] I must have been six or seven to eight or nine.
[44:13] That's terrifying. Your mom's turning into like Skeletor in front of your face, right?
[44:19] Yeah.
[44:21] And did your father stop traveling and be home and tend to his half-dying wife?
[44:32] Yes, I do remember him being around more than, and, uh, it's actually very interesting. She was not even, um, it wasn't the specialist doctor they're going to who even figured out that's what it was. It was like, I was just on a form, uh, some blog or something that it was where some blog he was just trying to figure out what this was because you know his wife was like dying and uh, he heard about this uh accolades thing and he was like that kind of sounds like what it is and so uh he told the doctor and uh he's like oh yeah that does kind of make sense that it could be that and it's like how if you knew about this did you not ever bring this up to us well that's what That's what we need AI for.
[45:26] And I honestly can't wait till AI replaces frontline doctors who are often, well, I don't want to get into that rant. I don't want to get, because they almost killed me, right? So I don't want to get into that rant. So, okay. So the one in a hundred thousand, the doctor figures it out. And what's the treatment?
[45:42] Well, he, that's what I was saying. He doesn't figure out. My dad suggested to him and he's like, oh yeah, it does sound like that.
[45:47] No, sorry, he figured out, like, after your dad gave him the clue, he figured out that, oh, that's what it could be, or he made, connected those dots finally, but, yeah, sorry, go ahead.
[45:56] Yeah, so, there was some surgery that was experimental that you could get done that could alleviate the issue to a huge degree, and so, a couple months after that, my mother got the surgery, and to a large degree…, Yeah, I think it took three months or something to be able to schedule the surgery or whatever.
[46:26] I guess, yeah, it's pretty specialized, right? He's probably got a long waiting list.
[46:28] Yeah.
[46:29] Man, if she's close to dying and it's three months to get the treatment, that's really rolling the dice.
[46:35] Man. I don't think it's that she would have died in the next six months or anything. I think it's that it was definitely getting to the point where it was becoming extremely serious. And if, you know, I mean, who knows what would have happened if, you know, my dad hadn't just been on.
[46:53] Well, we know what would have happened. She probably would have died, right?
[46:57] Yeah.
[46:59] Okay. Okay, so she gets the surgery and you're like seven or eight. Is that right?
[47:05] By that point, I would have been like eight or nine, I think. Okay. Yeah, around that age, yeah.
[47:11] Oh, yeah, sorry. You said she was battling this for two years, which, I mean, it's terrifying. Okay. So she gets a surgery and how does it go from there?
[47:21] Um, so it doesn't cure it, but, um, it does to a large degree, make it a lot easier instead of it being, uh, you know, like once a day, she's completely, you know, unable or, you know, every day.
[47:37] Yeah.
[47:39] It would be like once every week or other weeks, something like that.
[47:43] Okay. So she's able to resume 80, 90% of a normal diet.
[47:48] Yeah. Okay.
[47:51] No, listen, this stuff, I mean, I remember Scott Adams talking about he couldn't speak, like he couldn't speak until he did research after research and finally found a medical procedure that allowed him to speak again. And if I remember rightly, he said it was so difficult and unpleasant not being able to speak that he didn't even want to keep living. So there are definitely times when there are extremely rare physical ailments that are genuine and real. The doctors, just you know don't connect the dots and right so i i'm not saying that obviously i'm not saying because i don't know whether what was going on with your mom was psychosomatic or not i don't know but uh it sounds like they were able to do this operation that opened up the esophagus and she was able to eat mostly normally after that right.
[48:32] Yes okay so what i'd always come to the conclusion that she probably had some sort of uh you know genetic predisposition to it and due to the stress that's what triggered it um and what was the stress i mean i i.
[48:47] Mean you're a young man so uh i get that you were quite young in the financial crisis but sort of looking back what do you think the stress was about.
[48:57] Um i mean i remember pretty well actually um because, i just i don't know i've always had a lot of interest in economics and stuff so i probably got it because of this all happening um but yeah we lived in a state uh state or part of the country that uh it just when the crash happened you know houses fell about 50 so you know our dad had bought a house for you know 345 000 and we wake up one day and it's worth you know 160 or something like that um so but that's not stressing i mean.
[49:34] I get that that's unpleasant but it it's like when When Bitcoin goes down, I mean, it's just a number until you sell it, right?
[49:42] Yeah, I guess so.
[49:43] So help me understand the stress. Oh, did he feel like he was underwater on his mortgage? He was paying extra. But again, I mean, if you're expecting to do that anyway and you're not selling your house, I mean, generally houses, especially with the amount of immigration, houses are going to go back up in value. So I'm sort of trying to follow the stress. If it's just a paper loss, I don't see how that's hugely stressful. But again, I'm sort of happy to be schooled on this.
[50:08] Yeah, I mean, you're definitely right. There was just a paper loss. Um because they didn't i mean they ended up selling the house for 12 years or something but um.
[50:17] Yeah i mean i guess it was worth a lot more than what they pay for it right.
[50:21] No it actually uh in this part of the country i mean i think by the time he sold it it had not even reached the original price he bought it for.
[50:29] Really i.
[50:30] Think it was like 20 000 under.
[50:32] Wow so okay i mean with inflation that's not great of course but it wasn't the catastrophe they thought it was i don't i mean obviously if things go to zero but real estate doesn't go to zero usually unless the whole town goes dead in which case it's often propped up by zombie welfare, but yeah i mean your father is obviously a sophisticated businessman travels around understands economics and business and buying and selling so i'm not sure how a house losing, $175,000 in value when you have no plans on selling it. I'm not sure how that is super stressful.
[51:13] Yeah. I mean, uh, when you put it like that, I, it's hard to answer, but I certainly remember, uh, I mean, cause this obviously happened to everyone who lived in the area and, uh, I can, I can definitely remember noticing as a kid that, you know, oh, half the houses now are completely foreclosed and, uh, stuff like that. So I don't know. I mean, I guess they never, you know, my parents never had a very good marriage. And so even something that, you know, it seems like it should be completely able to be, you know, dealt with, it wasn't. uh i guess.
[51:52] Well maybe sorry to interrupt but maybe i assume everybody had a tough time it's sort of what's happening now too but if he's in sales and he's uh significantly commission-based then he's going to go from a lot of income uh in a relatively short period of time to um having having trouble uh in terms of his income right because that financial it wasn't just real estate like it was a whole bunch of stuff right so maybe there was a an issue with his income based upon that crash yeah.
[52:25] I mean i can't remember the exact details i know he did make a significant salary but i'm sure he did lose a lot in commission and you know in stocks and that sort of thing too as well well.
[52:36] And that's i mean again as a smart and intelligent guy your dad would know that income particularly when you're talking about commission income is variable right there are times when you're in the money and times when you're not in the money, And so he would put aside money for a rainy day. Like, I'm not sure if he was a big spender, but the idea that he's making, you know, good money and he's worried about a paper loss in a house he's not even selling, I mean, obviously there'd be some minor concern or whatever, right? But the idea that, I mean, that he wouldn't have saved for just this eventuality. I mean, everybody knows that the economy, because the government's, whipping people all over the place. The economy has crazy ups and downs. So that's why you save your money.
[53:29] Yeah, you're right. I did remember something, though, while you were talking about that. I can't remember my father telling me later on when I was a teenager, 15 or 16 or something like that, that he specifically did not want to buy the house because he thought it was looking like the economy was not doing very good. And because of my mother, we had just moved to this town he had moved a lot for you know my father would basically travel all the time and they would he would get a promotion you have to move states and that so we had moved states recently and we were in an apartment and you know they had two young kids and my mother wanted a house and he folded and bought the house and he seemed you know even what eight years later very um, uh no uh no way doesn't even know the way but i mean he was pissed you know that he had been Sorry.
[54:20] Hang on. Your father is traveling at a corporate level for two weeks a month sometimes. And he's got a wife and two kids. Your mom didn't work, right?
[54:34] No.
[54:34] Okay. So I'm trying to sort of figure out the math here. And I'm sorry, we may not have any data, but it doesn't add up to me, right? And I'm sure there's a factor I'm not aware of. But a fairly executive-level salesman who travels two weeks a month, the idea that he can only afford an apartment for his family doesn't make sense to me at all.
[54:58] Well no that's that's what i was saying is that i was trying to explain is that we were only in the apartment for i don't i don't know a couple months it's like they had moved to this new state and they were we were living in this apartment so that they could pick a house and uh no but the idea that he would.
[55:14] Buy a house that's only 345 000 is a little tough and again i know i'm saying on the one side save and so on and i know again that it's back in the day but i'm just trying to figure out the math do you have any idea what his salary was just roughly.
[55:31] Um if i had to guess at that point i would say somewhere around a hundred thousand dollars probably a.
[55:40] Hundred thousand that's low.
[55:41] And then yeah um i mean he wasn't the you know highest level person i mean it was a huge massive fortune 500 company so he was nowhere near the top Obviously, I mean, I'm sure that people, even the, I don't know, regional vice president level are making $500,000 a year. So he was nowhere near that level, obviously.
[56:04] Okay, so he wasn't a very good salesman or he wasn't very good in business.
[56:11] Yeah, I definitely would not say he's great or anything. He seemed very average from what my understanding of it is.
[56:21] Okay, so he wasn't in particular doing it for the money. Like, it's one thing if you're saying, like, he's traveling, but man, he's getting paid half a mil a year or something. It's like, okay, well, I, you know, don't agree with that, but I can at least understand the bribe, so to speak, for your time. But if he's traveling two weeks a month, and he's only pulling 100k, that's interesting. That's interesting. Okay, that sort of explains the $345 house. So then what? So he buys the house, and how long after he buys the house did the real estate tank?
[57:04] Not, I don't even think it was a year. I think it's within a year.
[57:07] So then he's mad at his wife. Is that right?
[57:14] Yeah.
[57:15] Like if we just waited a year, we could have got this house for half the price. Yeah i can understand that i can understand that frustration but you know this is the basically the challenge of self-ownership which is to say well she did not put a gun to my head right.
[57:36] Yeah no i completely agree i mean when he told me this later on i mean i just remember thinking like you know i'm like yeah that really you know that sucks that you really bought i like the worst time you possibly could have. But I mean, what do you want me to say? Like, if you, if you were thinking that it was a bad idea to buy them, why did you even do that? You know?
[57:55] Right. Well, let me ask you this. Does your mother nag? Cause a lot of anxious people do.
[58:07] I do not particularly remember her doing that, but I was speaking with my brother the other day, and he told me that when either I was very young, well, I guess I had to be very young, I don't remember it, that he remembers, I guess I should, for context, my father, before, you know, my brother was born, my older brother was even born, he was definitely an alcoholic. He got three DUIs.
[58:35] Oh, God.
[58:35] But yeah, but after my parents got married, but before they had my older brother, he quit completely. I never, I remember one time when I was like 12, my mother had like a bottle of like cooking wine and I was just like, I just, I didn't even really know, like it was some fancy bottle and I was like, what's this? And she's like, oh, it's, it's alcohol they use for cooking. And I was like, why do we never have, because I knew other people's families would have alcohol. And I was like, why do, why do we never have alcohol in the house? And she's like, oh, your father, he had a problem, but he quit.
[59:07] But yeah, so my brother had told me that when you're very young, sometimes we would, for example, be out at a restaurant. And my father would be, I don't know, boisterous, I guess, or whatever. And my mother would say something to him like, oh, you're acting drunk right now. And my brother was saying that it was completely impossible i mean i guess not completely impossible but it was ridiculous to think he could have been drunk at all it would be like you know he'd gone to church and then after church we went out for lunch you know so it's like what did he have a flask in his pocket that he's drinking when he's in the bathroom or something he was relaying that it was completely ridiculous to have been accusing him of this um, And, yeah, when you ask if she nagged, that's, I mean, my brother remembers that. I don't really remember it, but I could just be, you know, I don't know. I guess a lot of the time you say, well, I think you would remember it. So it's hard for me to say, but that is my older brother. He would say yes.
[1:00:17] He would say yes, that your father did drink after his birth?
[1:00:20] No, no, no, no, that my mother did nag him.
[1:00:23] Oh, okay, okay, got it. But, right, okay, so, I mean, we all know that the real estate market is driven by women, right? I mean, men would sleep in those Japanese airport pods if we could. It's the nesting of women, and I don't complain about it. I mean, it's actually quite a lovely fact of life. My wife makes a beautiful home, and it's really nice. But, yeah, it's largely driven by women's nesting and preferences and so on. And that's and that's fine okay so uh do you remember much i mean you said your parents didn't really get along do you remember any bouts or times or moments of affection between them.
[1:01:07] No i really i mean there would be times when you know someone would make a joke or something and you know we would all be laughing but i mean it was i i can't remember them ever you know, really even I mean I guess I can remember like when he would be leaving or returning from some trip you know they would hug or something but I just I could tell even as a kid that they didn't they weren't, loved or anything like that it was just, I can't remember a period in my life at all where they seemed to be yeah in love or to show affection really sorry go ahead Or to, like you were asking, show affection at all.
[1:01:53] Right. And what did they do with their time at home?
[1:01:58] Um yeah the only thing i can remember or my brother can really remember is watching a lot of tv and uh like occasionally we would play basketball or something like that but it was just really nothing is how i would they they just almost nothing it seemed like so.
[1:02:24] Um hobbies social life i.
[1:02:28] Know do they my my father's quite charismatic or well you have that for.
[1:02:38] Sales a little bit right.
[1:02:39] Yeah i think i'd say that so he has it has always been extremely easy for him to make friends it seems like um but my mother not with a neurotic wife it's not yeah um so they They never, I can't remember any period where they ever really had other friends that they would have been doing anything with. And what was the other thing you asked? Hobbies. Oh, yeah, hobbies. No, I don't remember either of them really having a hobby at all.
[1:03:11] And it just, it always blows me away.
[1:03:13] If you had to guess, I mean, how many hours of TV were they watching a day when they were home?
[1:03:26] Investment like at least four or something it was it seemed like a ridiculous amount okay looking back wow.
[1:03:35] That's uh you know it's funny because everybody talks about kids and ipads how about how about boomers and tv.
[1:03:41] Yeah i think that's so much that a lot of the criticisms they have of like my generation maybe it's just me being defensive but it's like yeah i mean it seems like Like you guys have the exact same problem.
[1:03:54] Well, and it passes down, right? If you're, I mean, so what did you, well, what did you do, I guess, with your brother or whatever, right? But what did you do when you were home?
[1:04:04] When we were home, me and my brother would play video games together. But probably the thing we did most was just like try to just go outside to the house as when we were younger as much as possible. Because we would just get bored. work and so like the there's some like you know undeveloped land behind our neighborhood and i just remember us i don't know i must have been like seven um and my brother would have been, 11 and we would just go out there for hours walking around exploring um and so, riding around the neighborhood on our bikes stuff like that sort of thing, and it's funny.
[1:04:50] How your mom has a lot of anxiety but you're fine to just roam around at the age of seven right.
[1:04:55] Yeah it's it's kind of crazy i don't really remember them, i guess i can kind of remember my mother being upset about that for a while and that or you know the first time we wanted to just go off and explore and my father being like oh well you know it's it's really important you know that they um i don't know have, uh i i can't remember exactly what phrase but you just it's good for them to just you know be out in nature it was like yeah we lived in a quite safe area so we didn't think yeah anything would ever happen oh no i i have no problem with you.
[1:05:35] Guys roman it's just kind of funny this this combination of your mom worrying about everything except her seven-year-old i mean I mean, of course, you're with your brother, but people with anxiety, it's just kind of weird. They seem to worry about all the wrong things and not even have much concern, although you said she was concerned about it. But your father was able to talk her out of that worry, but not other worries in her life, right?
[1:05:58] Yeah. You'd think that would be something she'd be completely dead to against, but she wasn't.
[1:06:05] Okay. So what about weekends? What would you guys do?
[1:06:11] Thank you. The only things I can really ever think of would be like, yeah, going to, you know, like water parks or theme parks and stuff like that, go go-karting, you know, that sort of thing. But I mean, it's definitely wasn't like it was every weekend because, you know, my father would be traveling. So there's sometimes he wouldn't even be there. But yeah, I mean, it's, it's really amazing. Me and my brother talk about this all the time. it's like how did we do so little when we were kids like how did just like nothing happen seem like ever right.
[1:06:56] Okay and were you drawn to any sort of risky high stimulus pastimes as a result.
[1:07:04] Yeah yeah definitely, I'm sorry such ass yeah um, no as soon as I had the ability to drive I was completely obsessed with just like driving as fast as I could you know felt like I could get away with and stuff like that um I definitely had both me and my brother had a, I mean his bigger than mine but we had quite large rebellious you know uh teenager streaks um.
[1:07:38] Well that's a bit more than rebellious that's almost like a death wish isn't it driving that fast especially as an inexperienced.
[1:07:44] Yeah yeah i uh i realized that a couple years ago it was uh it was just insane it was it was just i couldn't believe no one ever ended up stopping me you know right.
[1:07:58] What about drinking drugs sex all of the uh unholy trinity of the lost boys teenage the age years?
[1:08:07] I didn't, I mean, I had a girlfriend for many years in high school, and we definitely fooled around and stuff. But, no, I never, well, I guess, I didn't do any drugs or alcohol until I went to college.
[1:08:23] And what happened to your girlfriend?
[1:08:29] I mean, shoot, I obviously did not grow up in the best home and neither did she and just um, Yeah, I just, I, we were, it was one of those relationships where, you know, you know, you date for a couple months or something like that, and then you break up and then get back together, you know, on and off again type thing. Um, and, uh.
[1:08:54] Oh, like if you took sex out of the equation, you wouldn't give each other the time of day.
[1:09:00] Uh, yeah, it seemed like it turned into that at one point. Uh, yeah, for sure. But, uh, yeah, it's just eventually, uh, one time. I can't remember who broke it off but um i tried to you know get back together with her at some point and uh she just wasn't interested um and uh she'd like met some new guy and uh yeah that definitely messed me up for a while but and.
[1:09:28] That was sort of tail end of high school.
[1:09:29] Yeah so it happened the uh over the summer break uh before my senior year okay.
[1:09:40] Got it got it, and dating since.
[1:09:44] Um i've had a couple um, they're bros i guess we only ever had one other girlfriend you know where we're in an you know i mean just with with people my age it's so ridiculous it's like you never ever have any idea what term you're supposed to use um but yeah i think there's only ever been one other time where i would say we were boyfriend and girlfriend um there's probably been i don't know um three or four that i've you know been out to lunch with a couple times that sort of thing um but no no relationships of any length at all.
[1:10:27] Uh okay and do you know why you have been unable to settle into something more long-term.
[1:10:37] Um well i think for one it's i've moved around a lot um in the last couple years and so you know you hardly even bother to try and like make friends or find a girlfriend if you think you're going to be moving in a couple months um but i mean i'm.
[1:10:54] Sorry why have you moved around so much.
[1:10:56] Um just uh you know a bunch of stupid reasons like i was i moved from where i was living in high school to go to college and then uh my first year of college was when the coronavirus happened and so you know they just decided to shut down colleges pretty much and send everybody home um, and so i moved again then and uh a year later i decided to leave that state because i just hated living there so just a bunch of stupid reasons no that's not stupid i mean.
[1:11:28] It was The COVID shutdown was, it's not a stupid reason, that was a very real thing that was pretty horrible, particularly for young people. It's really one of the first times where we've sacrificed the lives and minds of young people for the sake of people 80 plus with three comorbidities. But anyway, that's just a general vampiric boomer, eat the young stuff. So, yeah, that's not.
[1:11:52] I guess my point is that a lot of the times I did move, I guess I could have decided to stay. I was tired of the people I was living with or just something like that. So I was like, I'll just try moving somewhere new. And thankfully, I think I finally found a place that I actually enjoy living. Um so i don't this is the first time and i don't even know like six years i don't i think i will be living here in a couple years oh okay yeah but um no so i definitely don't think that helps ever you know having like a socially preferred fine girl for anything like that but um, Yeah. Other than that, I don't really know. I mean, I feel like just in, because, you know, in high school, I mean, I guess the relationship wasn't good at all. But, you know, I had no trouble getting one. And I mean, I'm in better shape. And I mean, I have, you know, way more money, which is any money at all. Um and i have you know uh i have a welding certificate uh so i you know it's i i don't have a job right now but i mean i i should be able so you shouldn't.
[1:13:16] Have any problem bonding just kidding oh i i'd like to apologize for that dad joke uh but it's you know it's happened it's recorded so what can we say all right very polite laugh so okay so your career's going all right you're making some coin and uh your health is good so help me understand where this veil of loserdom for you is coming from.
[1:13:39] Just i don't really know i just always uh, like right now i'm just uh i uh i'd had a well-earned job and i hated the place where I was living and so I decided to move um and I thought that uh because I'd finally gotten the, these certificates I would never have a problem you know finding a job because I mean you know I I have physical evidence I have proof that I I know how to do it you know and it's obviously they you know it's not there's not welders everywhere um but for just the last couple months I've been completely unable to find anything at all and uh I just like I completely go back and forth like it's somehow you can't find work yeah gosh um yeah i mean the economy blows.
[1:14:31] Chunks right now but anyway go on.
[1:14:33] Yeah like some days i'll be telling myself that it's like oh it's not my fault at all you know it's like i mean maybe not you know not that it's not my fault at all but yeah i'll be thinking you know the economy's so horrible and well and most of the jobs are going.
[1:14:48] To foreign-born people right i'm sure you've seen those those data i mean maybe Maybe that's not the case as much in welding, but that certainly does seem to be an issue as a whole.
[1:14:57] Well, in the last day I was living in it, it definitely was because half the people I worked with just did not even speak English. It was unbelievable. But yeah, so sometimes I'll be thinking like, oh, it's not, it's like, I mean, yeah, like you're saying, it's like, I know all the data. It's like, yeah, the economy's horrible. And yeah, it's like, how many jobs did we lose this year? Or in America, it was like 800,000 or something like that. I mean, it's just ridiculous. But then other days I'm like, it just does not even matter the, all the facts I know about it and all that stuff. I'm just like, oh, it's completely my fault. I'm such a loser. Like how is it that I can't find a job? Like, you know, it's like, yeah, I don't know. I don't know how to explain exactly. It's just like. So many things in my life, it's like, I just have this feeling like there's just not enough that I am doing. Um, and it's completely my fault. Um, even though like with the, you're saying with the, you know, the economy, so we're right now, it's like, I mean, I'm aware that like, it, it shouldn't be surprising. It's so hard to find a job, but it just is like, yeah, sometimes I just, I'm like, how, how is this so impossible for me to do? I don't, I don't know.
[1:16:12] Okay let me just ask a couple of sort of basic practical questions um so what is your job hunting um approach how much time what do you what are you doing to find work.
[1:16:26] Um so i mostly uh do two things i you know they have like those websites you go to, or you know you fill out an application send it to them you know those are I mean at least it seems like to me they're just a complete waste of time but you know I do it anyways and then all the you know welding businesses there are, in the you know near vicinity I'll just call them up and say hey are you guys hiring you know and if they are you know I put in an application and take a test and, I mean like yeah that's another thing it's like I guess I might need to explain it's like in welding the way it works is you know the interview will be three minutes you know they ask hey do you know how to weld and you say yeah And then what they do is they set you up in front of a machine and you take a test. You actually weld a metal and sometimes they just look at it. Sometimes they send it to a lab and it gets analyzed. But it's a completely cut and drag thing. It's not like normal job interviews. And I've taken probably, I don't know, four in the last couple of months. And I passed all of them. They told me I passed all of them. And then I would hear back from them that I didn't get the job. Um and so i can only assume that you know it's just probably something like i mean, you know there's probably someone with more experience because i'm very you know i've been doing it for a year um and so i'm sure there are thousands of guys who've been doing it for 20 years oh yeah because normally normally.
[1:17:52] Experienced people stay in their experienced jobs but when the economies get bad and they get laid off then they even guys with 10 years experience would go for entry level, and people would rather, you know, all other things being equal, most people would rather hire the guy with 10 years experience than the guy with one year experience, and it shouldn't normally happen except when the economy is shit.
[1:18:12] Yeah of course um and so it's like it's not like i'm not making any progress i mean uh i guess i should also add like i did uh about a month ago i had a i did end up getting a job and it was just so horrible it was uh i had to travel and it was in an extremely liberal city i mean just you know it's one of those ones you see about on twitter it's just like you know just heroin addicts just like everywhere and homeless people and austin i mean just like i could not believe it when i got there it was like i mean it just seemed like hell or something i mean it was just unbelievable how, dysfunctional the city was um but yeah so i had gotten a job um and i was there for a day and the city was just yeah like i was saying unimaginable and uh because i was traveling obviously i wasn't in my own place um but uh you would get what's called a per diem which is just cashing every day to pay for your living expenses because you travel and you know they gave us like I think it was like $80 a day. And so the only thing you could afford to rent was the absolute cheapest motel, which is like, there was just, I mean, it was like bugs everywhere and all that stuff. And so I was just like, yeah, I just can't, I cannot do this. I mean, this is just unbelievable.
[1:19:24] And so, yeah, I ended up quitting that one. But yeah, so it's just completely irrational. I guess now that I'm saying this, just the day, it's like I sound like my mom, where I'm just worrying about things that are completely irrational, that it's like I am making progress with this stuff. And yet still, I'm just so just like torturing myself over it. I don't know.
[1:19:44] Sorry, I'm not sure what you're talking about at the end there. Like what is a completely irrational?
[1:19:50] Well like you're saying to me it's like i just shouldn't be so hard on myself about this stuff because the economy is so bad and you know i am getting tests and then they're just picking other people even my past and stuff so it's like there shouldn't be any logical reason why i should be so hard on myself but i just like whenever i you know uh you know like speak to my family or something it's just like i just feel like they're all thinking like how is it that he doesn't have a job like i just you know or you know because it's like if you meet new people it's like what's the first thing they ask you it's like oh what do you do for work and it's like oh what am i gonna say it's like oh i'm unemployed you know and it's like oh how long have you been living here for it's like three months now you haven't been able to find jobs just like i always had this thought that like people are just gonna like completely judge me for this failure or Or something. I don't know.
[1:20:42] Still trying to figure out this job that you quit after a day, right? So the town is bad. Okay. You're per diem. So you had to live in the city, is that right?
[1:21:01] Yes, because I was traveling five hours. So the way it would work is you'd have 10 days on and then four days off. So you would travel to the city, you'd be working there for 10 days straight, and then you'd travel back to wherever you were living, and they would pay you for a place, a hotel, a motel to live in in the city for the time that you were there.
[1:21:25] Okay. And so that was 80 bucks a day, right?
[1:21:29] Yes.
[1:21:29] Okay. And could you not subsidize from your wages to get a better place? Like say I'll kick in 30 and then at least get to 110 and don't have to live in some bug infested hellhole?
[1:21:41] Yeah, no, I did try looking at that. And just to get a place that was not just another motel that looked like it was... Because I went on Google Maps and I looked at all the hotels I could find. And to find a hotel that did not look like it was going to be just as bad as this one, it would have to have been like $200 a night or something like that. So it basically would have been 60% of the money I was going to be making in a day or something like that. Um so it just it did not make any sense from my financial standpoint to um to even bother um because i would just be making no money for having to live in this place i mean it just, it was like it was truly insane this uh motel ring just the people that were staying there i just felt completely unsafe yeah yeah yeah so.
[1:22:35] You had 2400 bucks a month give or take like US, I assume, for housing, right?
[1:22:43] It would have been 80 times 20, yeah.
[1:22:46] No, 1,600. Sorry?
[1:22:49] 1,600, because it was 80 times 20.
[1:22:52] Oh, yeah, sorry, 20 days. Okay, so 1,600. So you couldn't rent a room in a house. You couldn't, like, there was just no place that you could get for 1,600 bucks a month that wasn't, like, some fleabag motel.
[1:23:05] Yeah, it was one of these extremely expensive to live in cities where it was absurdly unaffordable.
[1:23:15] $1,600 a month, you can't get a room and a house.
[1:23:20] I mean, I guess maybe I could have found some. Yeah, if you're seeing a room and a house, yeah, I'm sorry, I misunderstood you. Maybe I could have done that somehow, yeah.
[1:23:29] Right. So, I mean, there was a possibility of finding a better place to live, For the time that you were in the town, but it would have been a motel kind of thing. It would have been like a room in a house, right? Because, you know, if you're not there 10 days a month, who cares, right?
[1:23:48] Yeah.
[1:23:51] I mean, I've never seen a room in a house more than 800 to 1,000 bucks a month. I'm just saying that there was some sort of other possibilities, right?
[1:24:00] Right yeah maybe maybe i i mean i'm sure if i would have you know taken enough time to be able to find something but um it was just i just had this realization that um i was going to be, spending you know more than half of my time because the entire reason i moved this most recent time was because i hated the city that i was living in and i was like well with this new job, I'm going to be spending more than half of my life in another city that's actually even worse.
[1:24:34] Yeah, I mean, look, maybe it's just sort of a different perspective, but I mean, I've had appallingly bad jobs for, you know, I mean, I spent a year and a half living in a tent off and on and, you know, a pretty bad apartment in town, in Thunder Bay, you know, gold panning, prospecting and all of that with, you know, bugs and bears and, all of that kind of stuff so maybe it's just a bit of a different thing but if you can't find work, don't you just have to take whatever there is and just try and find a way to make it work.
[1:25:10] I guess i should add also that um i have uh i made quite a bit of money off the cryptocurrency so i.
[1:25:17] Oh okay so you don't need the job.
[1:25:19] Yeah yeah with the job it's not really that i even need the money that badly it's just so much of a i feel so yeah like it's just my.
[1:25:27] So hang on are you semi-retired in your in your early 20s no.
[1:25:32] It's not it's not like.
[1:25:33] Okay how for how many years could you live at your current circumstances if you were just to spend the profits from crypto or crypto.
[1:25:40] Uh Two to three years.
[1:25:43] Oh, okay. Okay. Okay.
[1:25:51] So yeah, with the job thing, it's not that I'm worried about money particularly. I mean, obviously, I would rather not have to spend my savings, but I have the cryptocurrency and also I have money saved up from a previous job. But it's just a, I just feel such a lack of confidence that I've had so much trouble finding another job.
[1:26:16] Okay. So why would you be down on yourself rather than angry at the system?
[1:26:27] I mean, I, I definitely am that as well, but I, I don't know it. I mean, that's why I call it because I just don't, I realized like, I just don't understand why I'm being so hard on myself, um, about all this, but it's just been that I, I remember having been this way for just years you know like this with the job it's obviously a newer concern but or newer, problem that i have but just with so many things i would always be, just so hard on myself about stuff and yeah i just i realized recently it's like, i'm just so unhappy most of the time and i just i didn't even know why for the longest time but But then I realized it's like, because I just feel like I'm getting nothing done and making no progress in life.
[1:27:19] Well, okay. How long have you been unemployed for?
[1:27:26] Four months, four or five months.
[1:27:28] Okay. So you feel like you're making no progress in life because you've been unemployed for four months in a shitty economy.
[1:27:34] I guess I should also say, and I tried to explain this in the email, but I guess I was too brief. But I... I, uh, I've just had so many years of my life that I've just like wasted doing nothing.
[1:27:50] Um, and Okay, tell me those years of your life. What ages are you talking here?
[1:28:00] Um, from, I guess, uh, 17 to 18, uh, I tried going to college and I just completely, you know, I wasted all my time, you know, I stopped going to classes, I ended up flunking out, you know, obviously COVID ended up happening. Yeah, I hated it. I completely hated it.
[1:28:18] Okay, so you tried something and you hated it. And you tried following society's train tracks for success, right, and you found that you hated it. And so good, you got out. I'm not sure why that's a waste of time. I mean, you know, you tried doing what society said and, you know, what everyone says is needed and you found it wasn't for you and you left, right?
[1:28:38] Yeah.
[1:28:39] So help me understand. I mean, to me, the waste would be to continue on to get some, what were you taking in college? What were you looking at taking?
[1:28:51] I was going for architecture.
[1:28:53] Architecture. Okay. So you would have maybe gone on to that and you would have graduated 100 to 150 grand in debt or something like that, right? So, and then you would have not made money in crypto, and you'd have 150 grand in debt, and then you'd be trying to get work, right? So, that could have been bad.
[1:29:15] I, I guess it's just, I can tell that, uh, with like people in my family and stuff, they, uh, just, it's, I guess, I guess I can't think of a better way to put it than they just, it feels like they like look down on me for not having completed it. And it's like, I'm sorry. I just hated it. I could not stand it. I didn't really want to go in the first place. I just kind of went because that's what everybody told me to do.
[1:29:42] So your family told you to do something that you didn't want to do, and I assume they put some significant pressure on you. After not raising you for most of your childhood, they then put a bunch of pressure on you to pursue a degree you didn't really want to do, and then they blame you for it not working?
[1:29:58] Yeah.
[1:30:02] Okay, so let me sort of give you an analogy, right? So I was in a town when my daughter was younger and there was a steep embankment and a stream at the bottom, like a little more than a rivulet, less than a river, right? Now, she wanted to run down the hill and jump over the river or jump over the stream, right? And of course I had not trained her in running and jumping to that degree, right? I hadn't gone out and said, let's see if we can jump further. I hadn't trained her on running and jumping, right? In that way. So also on the far side of the stream were rocks. Now, if you run and you jump across a stream and it's sort of sandy and squishy on the far side, okay, well, you know, you'll go up to your, you know, we call it the oog, you know, the stuff that's in rivers that's just kind of gross, that you just sink into and all, it's like silty sand or whatever. So... If you land on rocks, though, well, that's turned your ankle badly, right?
[1:31:22] Yeah, of course.
[1:31:23] So I had not trained my daughter in any consistent way at running and jumping. Now, if I had encouraged her to run down the hill and jump, and she had twisted her ankle, what would I say? Say would I say well you're a loser you didn't even make it over the hill or you didn't even make it over the stream right how ridiculous how pathetic, right if I encouraged her to run down the hill and jump across the stream and then she twisted her ankle would I berate her for her foolishness.
[1:32:08] No you definitely shouldn't.
[1:32:09] No what would I what would I say.
[1:32:12] I made a horrible mistake encouraging you to do this.
[1:32:15] Yeah, right. So, the reason you're down on yourself about this is for reasons of an insecure bond with your parents, you can't criticize them. And that's another problem with neglect. Neglect. Neglect means that children can't criticize their parents because the bond isn't strong enough, which means that every time the kids run into problems, they blame themselves. Do you see this pattern, right? right yes hello yeah oh sorry i wasn't sure i didn't quite hear your response to that you you see the pattern oh.
[1:33:05] Yeah i was just i was saying yes i okay.
[1:33:08] So do you know why you can't blame your parents if they neglect you or you can't hold them accountable or you can't criticize them i.
[1:33:19] Mean i guess you're it was like you just said a second ago you know the the bond isn't strong enough so you're afraid of you know them uh you know.
[1:33:28] But you're already hanging by a thread right yeah you're already hanging by a thread they don't care about you they don't seem to like you they don't want to spend time with you and i assume that when like most kids when you ask your parents who are complete dissociated NPC zombie screen addicts, if you say to your parents, you know, come on, man, guys, stop watching TV all the time. Let's do something fun. They would view that as an annoyance or an imposition, right? Right. So your existence is an imposition, and therefore you can't impose anything negative on your parents because they already don't like you.
[1:34:10] Yeah, it definitely, I mean, that would definitely make a lot of sense because I just, yeah, I can't imagine ever, I mean, maybe the one or two times I've tried it, criticizing either my parents or me for that, yeah, it just completely blew up and yeah, nothing was accomplished and I learned to just never do it.
[1:34:36] No, no, no, no, no. Something's always accomplished. In every conversation, something is always accomplished. So tell me about what happened when you tried to criticize your parents. And all parents, of course, I mean, I'm a pretty good dad. I'm certainly not perfect. And I was soliciting feedback and what can I do better? And I'm providing a service, right? So to the people in my life. so, all parents are subject and open to criticism especially because we don't want to be complete hypocrites right, because we criticize our kids right to some degree I don't mean criticize like mean but you know let's say we give our kids feedback and say here's what you can do better right.
[1:35:22] Yeah of course.
[1:35:22] So if parents criticize their children then children should be able to criticize their parents, right? That's just reciprocity 101, right? So what happened when you criticized your parents?
[1:35:43] I mean, I really tried this so few times, but one of the examples I can think of is after I ended up dropping out of college, I was speaking with my mother I think this would have been a year, year and a half afterwards, after I would have dropped out and, Yeah, I was just talking about how, you know, I could not stand being in college and all the people there were just, you know, I didn't get along with any of them because I, I just, I didn't always hate school, but from like, I think sixth grade on, I just could not stand school.
[1:36:25] Um, and I kept getting told, you know, oh, in high school, it'll actually become worth your time. And then I got told in high school, oh, in college would become worth your time. So then I got to college and obviously it was a complete waste of time. Um and so yeah i just i knew within a week i was not going to finish um and my mother was saying um you know oh if you could have just stuck with it you know by this point you'd be so close to having a degree and i was just telling her it's like there was no there's like almost no scenario where i do stick with it because i just i mean they're just completely wasting my time i i've been hating school for like a decade at this point i mean it just i didn't even want to go in the first place it's like but she's just saying it's like oh but if you could have tried harder you and just she could not see my perspective whatsoever and and what i would like bring up it's like i don't know why yeah either of my parents even tried to get me to go when i i mean it just was so obvious i was not going to be able to complete i mean i think it's not even half of men uh finish you know get their degree at this point you know and so if you don't even want to go in the first place i mean how could you possibly think they were ever gonna um you know finish the schooling um and she would just say oh you know i mean that's just what you know that's what everybody says that you're supposed to do i mean you know we just wanted you to be able to get a good job and you know have options in life and all that sort of thing i mean it's just.
[1:37:49] It just it's what a you know a school counselor would have told you i mean it's just like you're You're just being read off, you know, like propaganda by a college or something. It was just so, I just realized there's no chance of reflection on my mother's part. And so I just, you know, I just dropped it.
[1:38:09] Okay. So she wouldn't listen to any of your concerns. So she steered you wrong as a parent, right? So one of the few times she really tried to influence you rather than just watch TV like a zombie for four hours a day, she tried to influence you and she put you in entirely the wrong direction and it's your fault that it didn't work right, yeah okay and she won't accept any criticism have you ever talked to her about the issues you and your brother had when you were kids about their neglect, um
[1:38:44] Yes. And I would have been, I think, 15. We had like a family sit down, whatever. And it was mainly about my older brother because he was being so rebellious at the time. So our parents were trying to, you know, uh, figure out why, um, and, you know, he, he started off with the complaints and of just like feeling like, yeah, he had just not been parented at all. I don't think he would have phrased it that way, but that was definitely the gist of what he was saying. And I said the same thing. And I mean, yeah, all either of my parents had to say is, well, oh, well, you know, this is just, you know, we did everything we thought we should have done. I don't know what we expect. We were just like every other parent. You know, I mean, they just had, they had nothing, you know, it was just deflecting.
[1:39:54] So they just gaslit and make excuses and said that you and your brother were wrong and crazy and unjust and unfair and kind of a-holes for bringing up these criticisms, right?
[1:40:04] Yeah.
[1:40:04] It's like, man, it's like you're criticizing us for not being able to fly or for not being 10 feet tall. Like, that's just not possible.
[1:40:12] Yeah. Okay.
[1:40:13] So that's horrible. I also, I didn't want to skip over the mind-blasting paradox that your highly anxious mother is just saying to you that you just needed to overcome your negative emotions at school. I'm sorry, I don't mean to laugh after telling you not to laugh. That is so mind-bogglingly hypocritical, I don't even know how to phrase it. It's almost too large and wide for my brain to encapsulate. Like your mother, who couldn't handle anxiety about anything, thing it's saying to you well you were in school you didn't like it but you should just have managed your negative emotions for the next six years and been fine it's like well what example did she give you how to manage negative emotions oh.
[1:41:01] I mean is.
[1:41:03] That unfair i mean i don't want to be wrong about your mom because i'm just sort of meeting her linguistically for hour 40 what.
[1:41:10] No uh yeah i can't think of a single time yeah i.
[1:41:14] Mean she wouldn't even parent but stayed at the boob tube for four hours a day, and she's telling you, no, no, no, but you should do that, which is difficult.
[1:41:22] Yeah, I mean, you're completely right. It was so hypocritical, because she had, I mean, she was a, like, a loner. I mean, she just had, I can't remember really any time where she would have had friends or, you know, other lives.
[1:41:37] You should do that, which is difficult, and overcome your negative emotions, emotions says the anxiety addict and and tv obsessive who who would rather watch tv than parent and she's i mean it's honestly i i don't know how people do this without their heads exploding like how people say such wildly foundationally hypocritical things and and say to you well it's like the woman who's never studied japanese and never raised you with any exposure to japanese just says hey you should just start spontaneously speaking japanese that That would solve your problem. I don't know. It's just wild to me how people say this stuff. Okay. And so that was when your brother was 15, and I guess he's four years, right? You were 11?
[1:42:25] No, no, no. When I was 15, he would have been 19.
[1:42:27] Oh, 19. He was 19. Sorry about that. Okay. Okay. And didn't he just hate your parents? I mean, I don't want to put words in his mouth, but this sort of rebellious stuff and all of that, Didn't you just have hatred and contempt for your parents, or certainly a lack of respect for their parenting and their lives?
[1:42:47] Yeah, I mean, he... I don't know if he's ever explicitly said that to me, but yeah, I definitely...
[1:42:56] No, but you guys have had conversations about your parents' deficiencies, and you're also fully aware that they won't admit anything, any fault. Have they admitted any fault with their parenting at all?
[1:43:09] I guess this isn't really to do with parenting, no, but my father... Our parents ended up splitting up, I don't know, in 2019 or something like that. But I can remember one time my father- I'm sorry, but when you say split it up.
[1:43:25] You mean they went all the way through divorce?
[1:43:27] Yes, they got divorced, yeah.
[1:43:29] Oh, so you should stick it out in school. Okay, all right, all right.
[1:43:35] Yeah, good point.
[1:43:36] Do you know why they got divorced?
[1:43:39] Um yeah so i mean obviously they had never been happy together at all from either near my brother's recollection um but i i think um and it must have been, oh gosh 2015 they sat both of us down and said we were gonna get divorced and then it just like went away they never brought it up and so i had always assumed that they stuck it out until uh i was old enough to graduate from high school um and then that's when they went through the divorce but for the reasoning um i mean like i said i just they didn't even seem to like each other but then on top of that um my father did tell me at one point that he had an affair um it's a traveling salesman with a neurotic wife who's.
[1:44:28] Sick all the time so um i hate to say that's not Not shocking, but it's not shocking.
[1:44:33] Yeah, you've heard this one before, I'm sure, yeah.
[1:44:35] Oh, yeah, yeah.
[1:44:38] And so, I mean, I've never spoken to my mother about this, but yeah, I'm sure that didn't help. When did he have the affair? I don't know exactly. I didn't ask exactly when, but from when he admitted this to me, it seemed like it had been... He told me this in 2019 while they were, I guess, finishing the process to file the paperwork. The impression he gave me when he told me this was that it had been recent.
[1:45:18] Right, okay.
[1:45:19] He also gave me the impression that it was new, that this was a one-time thing. But of course he would I never knew what to think of that because of course he would say that he only did it once but like you're saying he's a traveling salesman it's like who would know.
[1:45:35] Well and I mean a woman who's not having sex with her husband is cheating on him.
[1:45:44] What do you mean by that?
[1:45:47] Well, okay, so let's put it this way. So your dad had your mom stay home, and he was the monopoly provider of income, right?
[1:45:57] Yes.
[1:45:58] He made the money, he paid the bills, and she didn't make any money, right?
[1:46:02] Yeah. I mean, I guess I should clarify. There was like, I don't know, maybe one year where she had a part-time job or something, but yeah, for 95%, she didn't work.
[1:46:11] Okay. See if we go back to... It's an irrelevant exception. Okay. So, your father was the monopoly provider of income, and your mother had no other source of income other than your father, right?
[1:46:23] Yes.
[1:46:24] Okay. So, let's say that your father just woke up one day and said, I'm not going to work anymore. Right? And the family income ceased. What would your mother do?
[1:46:42] She would have been forced to get a job or something.
[1:46:45] Yeah she she would she would go outside the marriage to get income right, because he's the monopoly provider of income and she has founded her life on him providing her income right and so if he's not providing her income she's going to have to go outside the marriage, like if he's providing income, she's getting income from within the marriage. If he's not providing income, she has to go outside the marriage to get her income, right?
[1:47:16] Of course, yeah.
[1:47:17] It's the same thing with sex. Right, if your mother was not providing sex, and again, we understand if she's ill and like this, obviously circumstances, but you know, you have to kind of get back on the horse at some point, right? And she got that resolved within a couple of years. so if your mother is not providing sex I mean you know what the male sex drive is like right so if your mother is not providing sex he's going to have to go outside the marriage, or end the marriage in the same way that if he's not providing income when he's the monopoly because you know this is what women do right they say well we're getting married and therefore you can't go outside the marriage for sex right, but men need sex, sex and so it's like okay i i will be the monopoly provider of income you be the monopoly provider of sex and a man who has his wife stay home and then won't bother working is considered to be a guy who's like that that's why you divorce a guy right because like he's he's not he's not earning any money and and i have to we have to have an income right yeah of course so if the woman, says to to the man you can't get sex anywhere else and i'm not giving you sex, then that's breaking the marriage vows that's that's cheating.
[1:48:45] Okay. Yeah, I... And if she says.
[1:48:50] Well, I'm not in the mood, okay, I understand that, and of course, no one should ever have sex against their will. But if the man says, well, I don't feel like working anymore, man, it's too much travel, it's too much hassle, too many flights, it's no fun, I'm not in the mood to work, right? Well, you have to have some kind of income, right? In life. life so generally if the man says well i just didn't really i wasn't really in the mood to work so i didn't go to work and then i got fired and i was just not really in the mood to get another job and all of that well that would be considered the guy who's like well, but you have a family you have some responsibilities right, so you have to find to find out whatever the problem is psychologically and resolve it so you can get a job right and if the woman is like doesn't want to have sex with her husband then she has to, you know, don't ever have sex against your will, of course, right? But she has to figure out what the issues are so that she can get closer and have sex with her husband.
[1:49:52] And that isn't just blaming him, right? So everyone looks at the man cheating and says, oh, he cheated, that's bad. And it's like, well, I view a woman who doesn't want to have sex with her husband, doesn't figure out why and deal with it, and won't have sex with her husband, she's already broken the marriage vows. She's cheated on the marriage. And she's just cheating through inaction, which then drives the man to cheat through action, but everyone blames the man.
[1:50:28] I mean, a man who's getting great sex at home isn't going to go out to cheat. He's just not. Like, why? This is an old line from Paul Newman, right? Paul Newman was considered one of the best-looking people on the planet, a very talented guy. And he was married to a woman named Joanne Woodward, who he actually directed in a Tennessee Williams play. And people said, like, there's never been a whisper of you with other women. And he's like, well, why would I go out for hamburger when I have steak at home? Now this means of course the quality of the relationship and so on but basically he's saying why would i i mean part of that is why would i go sleep with another woman when i have a great sex life at home so and of course we understand that if a woman cheats the man can be at fault right he's not romantic or sexy or taking care of himself maybe you let himself get fat or whatever So, we can understand that. But it's the same thing the other way around. So, it's just... It's like in families, there's what's called the identified patient, which is the one person who's acting out the most. And that's considered to be, I guess in this case, it would be your brother, with the rebelliousness and so on, right? But people don't like to talk about the root causes. So, the identified patient, oh, why did your parents break up? Well, your father had an affair, says your mother, with all the self-righteousness in the known universe, right? To which the question is, well, why?
[1:51:57] I mean, if you get married and your wife is cooking, let's just take a silly example, right? So your wife is cooking cordon bleu, like five-star Michelin meals at home, right? You come home and there's like a beautiful, wonderful meal right there on the table, right? Are you going to go out for McDonald's?
[1:52:21] No, of course not.
[1:52:21] Of course not. Why would you? The food's not as good. It costs you more. And you've got to drive to get it. Like, why would, that just makes no sense, right? A man who's happy at home isn't going to have an affair. Now, does the man have some role? Did he make a choice? Absolutely, but so did the woman. And in every case that I've ever talked to, and I've talked to quite a few people about this, of course as you know over the years a man's affair is preceded sometimes by years of no affection at home, and it's like look we all have this I'm sure you've had this as a bachelor you come home and you're kind of hungry and you open the fridge and there's like half empty pickle jar and three packs of ketchup, so you're like well there's nothing to eat here and what do you do.
[1:53:19] Yeah you go out yeah.
[1:53:21] Right you go out because there's nothing to eat at home and a man can only go without physical i mean women seem to be able to handle a lack of physical affection slightly better than men or whatever right, yeah right right so anyway i just i wouldn't get down on your dad 100 about all of this sort of stuff no.
[1:53:45] I i couldn't even imagine i.
[1:53:47] Mean your dad also traveled because he didn't want to be home right because he didn't like his wife you.
[1:53:52] Know i i wouldn't even begin to like fingers at either of them because it's like they just neither of them seemed interested in even really trying so it's like how could you figure out who would be at fault for anything i just don't yeah.
[1:54:07] Okay so tell me the plus of having your parents in your life i'm not saying they should or shouldn't be I don't know. I'm just, I've heard a lot of negatives, right? I've heard that they were neglectful, that they kind of half-crippled you and your brother with a lack of interaction, that they are defensive, that they blow up whenever you try to give them your feedback and thoughts, that they gaslight, that they counterattack any honest statement on the part of you and your brother. Oh, and that your parents guided you towards a field you didn't want to be in and then blame you for... Not succeeding in it in an incredibly hypocritical manner. So help me understand the pluses. And I don't say this in any sarcastic way, right? I mean, you know, help me understand the pluses.
[1:55:02] No, of course, I've heard you do this before. And yeah, I've thought about it on occasion, and I just, I don't, I don't really have anything. Thing i mean i there are points where i do enjoy talking to them spending time with them but just, mostly it's i just have to like censor to myself i'm speaking with them and it's just it's so, exhausting to have to do that right.
[1:55:33] No i i get that i mean you can i mean even a dictator is uh it's fun when they're in a good mood and you're not contradicting them so okay so what are the are the costs?
[1:55:48] I mean, at this point, there's not... Well, I guess. Maybe there was a lot I didn't think of.
[1:55:55] Sorry, maybe there's not.
[1:55:58] I hadn't thought before that there was very many, but maybe there aren't. But before, just now, I didn't think there was much of a cost at all because I don't live near either of them. So I only speak to them all on the phone a couple hours a month or something like that. it's not probably not even that much probably an hour a month so i don't i don't even really interact with them at all there's so well.
[1:56:20] I would say that you do interact with them insofar as you criticize yourself for things beyond your control right because earlier you were saying well my mom was anxious and it was kind of frustrating because these are things beyond her control now i guarantee you there's more you could be doing to find work i guarantee you that, right so how many hours a day are you spending looking for work.
[1:56:42] Uh when i first moved here it was i mean basically the only thing i did but now it's just i've i've applied to all the jobs they're just in the vicinity so i'm i've just reached the point now where i'm debating just trying to find a a normal job that has nothing to do with welding because i just i i feel like at this point i booked every company that's with you know an hour's drive uh in regards to my my field um but uh but yeah nowadays i mean it's it's not much i I still have some interviews lined up or tests lined up.
[1:57:16] Okay, and have you reached out to all the contacts you've ever had in business and asked them if they or anyone they know is hiring?
[1:57:26] I mean, I only have...
[1:57:27] Old bosses, old co-workers, like anyone you've ever worked with, old teachers, old mentors, old whoever, like anyone you've ever worked with in the building, have you phoned them up? Like, not email, because that gets buried in the shuffle, but called them up and said, like, I'm totally desperate for work. I'm dying out here. year is there anyone or anything or anyone that you know who might be hiring uh.
[1:57:50] When i when i was leaving to come up here i asked i moved basically across the country i asked all the people i had been working with you know hey do you know anyone over in this area of the country who is a welder you know i could yeah try to get a job through and they all just sit now um and then uh through my school uh they have a like a group you can join and they put out uh you know leads for you um so i haven't called the school or anything but i mean they put all the leads that they have, um okay all right so ready so if.
[1:58:23] I mean there's just no work.
[1:58:28] That's i mean that's what i'm not disagreeing with you i mean i'm you've.
[1:58:31] Been looking for work for months so i'm not disagreeing with you but if there's no company that that hires welders within an hour's drive who's looking for a welder than, you ever seen the movie Wall Street? Charlie Sheen and Michael Douglas. So in order to get a meeting with Gordon Gekko, he delivers like cigars every day for like months in the morning just to get like a 10-minute meeting. And sometimes, you know, it's just keep calling, keep pestering, keep, you know, in a sense, right?
[1:59:10] Uh i say well i don't want to impose and it's like well you never know when the opportunities are going to open up now that of course having been said i mean if there simply is no work and you don't want to move then yeah i guess you'll have to take uh take another job but the price of having people who've done you great wrong that you can't criticize is you end up criticizing yourself for all of your life's problems.
[1:59:39] Yeah, well, I certainly do that.
[1:59:41] Right. So that's the price. So in my view, I think it's worth having, you know, I mean, I always think it's worth having honest conversations with people, but I think it's worth having an honest conversation with your parents and with your brother, maybe there too. And just saying, no, like you guys were like TV addicts, dad. And your dad's going to be like, well, I had to travel because we needed money, right? That's just the usual nonsense that people say, right?
[2:00:08] Yeah. Right.
[2:00:09] But then, you know, are you saying that there was no way you could get any income without traveling half the month? Right? That's just not true, right? Well, if I'd have cut down, we'd have had less money. It's like, yes. And did you ever ask us kids, did you ever ask us kids if we wanted more time with our parents or more toys?
[2:00:32] No, we didn't.
[2:00:33] Right. So don't tell me that something was for my own good when I didn't actually want it. You know if my girlfriend's allergic to peanut butter and i buy her a big jar of peanut butter and then say it's entirely for her she'd say but you know i'm allergic to peanut butter what what are you telling you didn't what what are you why would you bring me peanut butter i didn't want the money i didn't want the bigger house i wanted time with my dad and you never asked me so don't tell me it was for me because you never asked me what i wanted and it's insulting to me to say that you did something for me which I didn't want and you never asked me about it. If you'd have said, well, I could be home a lot more, we can do a lot more fun stuff, but we'll have to have a smaller house. I'd have said, yeah, great. And even, even dad, when you came home, you didn't spend any time with me. So it wasn't about the job and it sure as hell wasn't about me. So what the hell was going on? Let's just be honest.
[2:01:46] Yeah, I guess you're definitely right. I mean, what is there to lose? I mean, it's hardly...
[2:01:54] Well, it's an hour a month lying and then constantly blaming yourself for all of your life's troubles.
[2:01:59] Yeah.
[2:02:00] That's not fun. And also, it's going to keep a quality woman from being in your environment, right? How admirable is it for a quality woman to see a man beat himself up? Does that what does that is that attractive to her.
[2:02:17] No of course not and you know obviously i don't do it in front of them but like as soon as i started listening to your show i'm just like well they just must you know just be able to tell you know oh yeah i don't know of course yeah so it doesn't matter yeah and.
[2:02:30] How much do you think it harms your employment prospects to be really harsh and down on yourself like when you go for interviews and right.
[2:02:39] I mean you know i always just think they go well you know they tell me that you know i passed the test and all that but obviously i'm not getting a job so right so that and.
[2:02:50] I i don't know why but i would assume that if you're really down on yourself then you need the job for more than money you need your job so you stop self-attacking which puts a certain desperation in your demeanor which might be off-putting to at an unconscious level to to people hiring.
[2:03:05] No i mean that's that's exactly what it is like my brother he'll ask me like oh why don't you just i you know for a bunch of years I worked in retail, just dead-end jobs. It's like, why don't you get another job like that? It's like, dude, I don't care about the month. I only care about, I feel like I need to have a career. I feel like I have no respect for myself at all now that I'm back in this place again. I thought I had this problem solved before. And now that I don't have a career again, it's like, well, I feel like I'm adding absolutely nothing to society or anything like that.
[2:03:38] Sorry, but why don't you work in the crypto field?
[2:03:44] Uh what do you what do you mean working what do you mean by working crypto i don't know what you mean well.
[2:03:50] There are tons of jobs in in crypto right.
[2:03:52] Oh i don't know if i meant by like speculating i didn't mean i code or anything like that it's not okay there's a.
[2:04:01] Lot more than there's a lot more than coding in the crypto world in fact coding is not even the major issue in the crypto world, I mean, the major issue in the crypto world is sales, and you grew up as a son of a salesman.
[2:04:22] Yeah, I guess so. I don't know. I never even considered anything like that because just with how my dad was, I was just like, yeah, there's a 0% chance I'm ever going to even consider doing some sort of sales corporate type thing.
[2:04:40] Don't let your dad's bad choices dictate your good choices. I mean, it's like if your dad was an exercise fanatic, does that mean you have to get fat?
[2:04:50] No, of course not.
[2:04:51] Right so i mean there's a guy anthony pompliano p-o-m-p-l-i-a-n-o uh on on on x and he's you know got a whole website and board set up for crypto jobs and i'm not saying you jump right into it with no experience but i mean you obviously have some experience in crypto but you know spend eight hours a day reading up everything you possibly can on crypto and then, you can talk about it in a podcast or a youtube channel and you know i mean And why not something like that? I mean, you're a very well-spoken young man, and you've got some experience buying and holding and trading crypto, and you can learn things very fast. You said you understood economics from even as a kid, you were interested because of the 07-08 crash. And so, I'm not trying to tell you what to do. I'm just like, if you care about crypto and you've got good social skills, which you do, then why not something like that?
[2:05:50] Uh i don't know i never i just never even considered it.
[2:05:54] I mean the best the best thing to do in your life is what you do for free right you know if if you love going to sing karaoke and people like what you do maybe go be a singer right if if if on your side you write songs maybe be a songwriter if like whatever you're doing for free and if you love reading about economics and and learning about crypto then god whatever you do for free if you can get paid for it that's about the best you can do in life yeah.
[2:06:30] I guess you're right i mean i never uh i mean i was even just so you saying that it's like i was so uh nervous to even come on this that like you saying i'm a good public speaker i just didn't even i've never i mean it's not It's not like I thought I was, you know, horrible at interacting with people. I've definitely never done any public speak or anything like that. So I don't know. I mean.
[2:06:51] But you've had nobody believe in you, right?
[2:07:04] And as a result, it's tough to believe in yourself, right? I mean, my perspective for myself is I can do everything until proven otherwise.
[2:07:18] I can do everything until proven otherwise. Now, obviously, that doesn't mean I can do everything. I've tried a bunch of different instruments over the course of my life. It's not really for me. I don't particularly enjoy the process of learning, and it doesn't come particularly naturally for me. Same thing with math. I can do it, but it's not particularly natural to me. So there's a bunch of stuff that I can't or won't do. But my assumption is, if I were to say to myself, I'm going to go become a Solana guru or evangelical guy to just promote Solana or whatever, Bitcoin, I'd be like, yeah, well, I can do that until proven otherwise. I just assume I can do it. And then if I find out I'm bad at it or I hate it or like, okay, then I'll check it off. But I assume that I can do it. And I think this is true Everyone who listens to this show I put in the top 1% of intelligence So you can do anything you want, Until proven otherwise And the proven otherwise could be something Like it just doesn't fit Your brain doesn't Skills don't work that way Or maybe you hate it Or something like that, right? But I would just try and suggest This as a mindset as a whole That yeah, there's nothing you can't do Until proven otherwise Yes, So if you want to go and start, you know, you want to start writing and talking about crypto, and then, you know, study and learn and provide something of value, and then just go do it. And until proven otherwise, you could do it. Why not? Isn't that more fun?
[2:08:46] Yeah, I mean, it's certainly fun.
[2:08:48] So the way, I'm in a 360 situation, right? I'm in a 360 situation, which is, I can go anywhere I want in life, and I'm going to assume that I can do a good job. And I mean, I certainly believe, I know that I can do an above average job of just about everything. I mean, that's just an IQ thing, right? But just look around, and rather than saying, well, it's welding or retail, it's like, why? Why not just say, if I had a completely blank slate to work with, what would I most want to do with my life? And then assume you can do it until proven otherwise. And you may have some spectacular crashes and burns. I get that. So I've had some too. But that's fine.
[2:09:41] Yeah i mean i just uh yeah i never really even considered it i just never even thought that way before.
[2:09:47] Right right and that's because you had anxious parents who didn't think about their lives or an anxious mom and a dad who just was on the train tracks right so obviously your life your parents didn't have a life that they designed from a blank page and the real the only real Real freedom in life is believing you can do stuff.
[2:10:08] And saying, okay, like, and for me, so like, I was like, okay, I can be a writer. Okay, I'll try that. Hey, it seems to be pretty good. Okay, I'll try that. Well, that didn't work out for me because communists run the publishing industry. And I'm very, all of my writing is anti-communist. Okay.
[2:10:24] So, okay, maybe I'll try some acting. I'm not bad. Okay, I'll do some theater school. I'll write some plays. I'll produce a play. And the play went well, but I, you know, didn't particularly enjoy the process because it meant involve, it involved working in the theater world with acting types, which is not my particular thing so it's like okay well then i'll i'll go be a temp and do office work and it's like oh i always enjoyed programming and an opportunity has come to co-found a software i'm just going to assume that i can do it and i was a pretty good programmer and then i'm like oh okay i'll i'll do the business world well i've always enjoyed so and i'm not saying like i'm the same for everyone or i'm the template template for everyone because there's been things as i said that i've tried that that didn't work out uh and then i'm like oh i've always enjoyed talking about you know philosophy self-knowledge economics blah blah it's like i'll i'll try that right and so you just you're like the rumba you know the rumba goes until it hits a barrier then it turns to go somewhere else right so that's just exploring like what if you could just design your life from a blank page assuming you could do things until proven otherwise now it may be that you spend a couple of months learning about crypto and and writing or blogging or vlogging or whatever it is about crypto and then you find oh i hate doing this or it's boring or uh it doesn't you You know, whatever. Okay, that's fine. But then look at your other hobbies or things that you like to do and figure out what works from there.
[2:11:42] But given that you listen to this show, if you're not thinking big, you're thinking too small. If you're not thinking blank slate, you're limiting yourself artificially, if that makes sense.
[2:11:56] Yeah, I can complete what you're saying. I just, yeah, I'd never, I just, I've either done, you know, just what I was told to do or what I thought would just be, I don't know, the most reasonable, I guess, the most achievable.
[2:12:15] Right right and i think that's a disservice to your potential my daughter has this great phrase and it's a common phrase like you got this right so if i'm trying to do something difficult or challenging so she's like you got this and it's like that's really nice you know she's very very positive in that way and of course i've always encouraged her you know i've always told her that this because she's very smart and i you're very smart and i'm very smart and we're very smart so i would say to her you know anything you want to do you can achieve now doesn't mean you're going to want to do everything and there's stuff you might be better or worse at but anything you want to do you know outside of physical limitations right she's not going to be a line backer of the nfl because she weighs all of like 112 pounds or whatever right so but but anything, intellectually like anything she wants to do she can pretty much do, and i would certainly start from that position now maybe you'll find your ceiling maybe you'll You'll find your cap. But anything in terms of intellect that you want to do, assume you can do it until proven otherwise.
[2:13:25] Yeah.
[2:13:28] Yeah, I don't know why you would ever have any perspective other than that.
[2:13:33] Well, the reason you have that is you don't have people who've encouraged your beliefs in you. Right?
[2:13:42] No. Yeah. I didn't. I mean.
[2:13:51] And you had parents who lived life very small. You know, your father should have been trying to figure out how to move up the corporate ladder and assuming he could do the next biggest job. And if you self-limit yourself, you'll never know your potential. Like almost by definition, if you self-limit, you'll never know your potential.
[2:14:15] And i would rather my potential be imposed by reality rather than fantasy right so you know when i was in in high school i put together a garage band and i tried we tried doing some police covers and i tried singing like sting and it sounded absolutely appalling like it was just terrible right because i can't sing that high right i mean who can right other than john anderson So, that was a limitation. I was willing to accept that. I'm glad I tried.
[2:14:49] And I would never be the lead guy in a police cover band. It's not going to happen, right? But that's a limitation imposed by reality, like my voice doesn't voice that way, and not my fantasy, right? So if you think, well, it's either welding or retail, why? Why is this a false dichotomy? Like, what if the thing you most love to do, you could find a way to monetize? I mean, certainly it's easier to monetize your passions now than it ever has been in human history. And this chance, this window for doing it might close down, right? The central bank, digital currencies and stuff like that, right? So sky's the limit, man. Of all the times in the world, this is the easiest to monetize your passions. So figure out what you love to do and just fucking do it until you hate it or you break through.
[2:15:52] Yeah i just uh yeah you're completely right i uh i literally just picked doing the welding because i never wanted to have to worry about um, feeling like i i don't know i yeah i just didn't want to worry about having a job at all yeah ironically obviously that's right yeah it didn't even end up working out so i'll get that to me well.
[2:16:15] And it may be because you did it for practical reasons and what really sells in the world is passion.
[2:16:28] And it's a long life to do mechanical stuff you don't particularly care about for the sake of a medium paycheck.
[2:16:37] I would rather really strive and fail, right, than, you know, play it safe. Because playing it safe doesn't really work anyway, because every choice you make in life has its costs and benefits. Like, you know this. There's no right answer outside of morality, right? Everything you're going to try in life has its costs and benefits. So you can say, well, I'm going to go small, and therefore I'm going to take on less risk. But then you just feel dissatisfied because you're underachieving. Like you still haven't solved anything. You've just shifted the problem. Well, I'm not going to take big risks because I could fail really badly. It's like, okay. But then you have the problem of feeling down on yourself for playing too small and maybe being a bit cowardly. You just shifted the problem, right? So to me, given that most choices end up about the same, I'm going to go big. Because if I go small, I'll just be doubting myself for playing too small. Especially when I get older and I realize that the stakes, who gives a shit? Who cares? We're all going to die. We all fail eventually. Our hearts give out, our brains go nuts. Our kidneys explode I don't know whatever the hell happens when people get old we're all going to fail and die anyway what the hell's the problem with playing big stakes.
[2:18:03] Our option is what because when you get older and you run into real problems, like your health starts to fail and so on you look back and you say shit I can't believe I was worried about failure now I've got kidney failure now that's failure, screwing things up going into debt losing out, having your ego bruised. That's nothing. That's nothing. And you get that perspective when you're older and it's too late.
[2:18:35] So throw yourself heart and soul into something you really care about. Read books on business, crypto, whatever. Throw yourself heart and soul into whatever you really care about. Oh, no, but I might fail. It's like, but there's no failure bigger than not trying, man. And then the problem is, all of that truth only gets revealed to people when they get older. And you look at the number one regrets. People look back and say, I wish I'd worried less about failure. I wish I'd worried less about what other people think. Because when you're on your deathbed, And you realize that none of your problems compare to anything when you're dying. Nothing. And all of our little concerns and cares and cautions of whatever, people might think bad of me or I might look bad. It's like, oh my God. You're facing that big black nothing at the end of everything. And you look back and you're like, what the hell was I nervous about? Compared to this all of that is nothing.
[2:19:42] So that's the perspective that I would like to get across to you and I've always kind of got this instinctively, I've sort of verbalized it, actually the first video I did was like live like you're dying, right, on your deathbed if you could go back to 23, do you think you'd be worried? You'd be like holy shit I get to do this again oh my god I get to have a 23 three-year-old body again oh my god i'd be thrilled and all you are is worried right, yeah that's my yeah but but of course your parents lived very small and predictable and safe and npc and right so that's a tough perspective to get across if that makes sense because that's the opposite of how they lived right yeah.
[2:20:28] And uh you know funnily enough the every time i don't live that way it's uh it's like the good decisions like you know i take my money out of my college savings fund and i set an accident crypto you know i decide to move across the country and it's, the first place i enjoy living in six years or something like that i mean it's, every time i do just do what i think is best yeah that's when it.
[2:20:55] Ends up working out that girl that the oh so people want to i want to talk to that girl but i'm nervous and so on it's like i want you to think if you're deathbed looking back are you going to be like wow i'm really glad that you know 50 years ago i didn't talk to that girl i really liked thank goodness i didn't do that right i mean come on right it's just trying to put things in in perspective. And when you're young, everything's in the moment. And when you're older, everything's in the past. And so, you have to balance those perspectives, of course, but I just don't think you've had people, you know... My general perspective is...
[2:21:37] I don't whip myself to do stuff. I never assume I can't do stuff, right? I mean, the first time I did a speaking tour, first time I got up and did sales presentations, first time I tried to sell software that I'd built, right? I just, yeah, I assume I can do it until proven otherwise. And that just gives you a freedom. And that way you can build your life empirically rather than self-limiting yourself, right? So I went out and tried to sing in a garage band and I sucked.
[2:22:05] And so okay that's fine you know i'm glad i tried i didn't you know and i i thought gee i'd really love to be an actor and i tried the acting stuff and i enjoyed the acting part i didn't enjoy any of the people who were in the theater world i just thought they were all complete narcissistic lunatics and you know vilely hyper competitive and and self-absorbed and all of this kind of stuff, right? And I remember our movement teacher filmed us doing Tai Chi so that we could figure out how our bodies moved and how to do it better. And all of the actors were like, ugh, my ass looks so big from that angle. Oh my God, my hair looks weird in the back. And it's just like, oh my God, I can't, I can't, I can't be, I can't be the rest of my life around these people. I just can't do it. And, you know, the verbal abuse sometimes from directors was just horrendous. And I just like, nope, nope, nope. I get directors throwing chairs around, screaming at people. Ball and it's like nope nope nope not my scene not my world at all but i'm very glad i tried and it actually ended up being quite helpful for me doing audiobooks and and uh dictating uh, dialogue in in novels and so on right so yeah just just assume you can do it until proven otherwise and then design your life from scratch uh based upon what your natural passions are i i can't think of a better approach to life but i'm certainly open to the argument as always.
[2:23:25] Oh, I certainly don't have anything better, that's for sure.
[2:23:29] And how are you feeling?
[2:23:33] Certainly a lot more optimistic, yeah.
[2:23:36] Good, yeah. And seriously, write this stuff down. What do I care about the most? Oh, I like talking about economics. I like talking about crypto. I like, okay, whatever it is, just make a list of the top five or ten things you want to do. Figure out what you want to spend your time doing. Make a plan of study and work on it and email people, ask for help, sign up to newsletters. Like, just try and find a way to make it work for yourself. And, I mean, honestly, I can't think of a better way to spend life.
[2:24:08] Yeah, I think you're right. Yeah, why would I limit myself? There's just no reason to.
[2:24:15] Well, I mean, there's a reason to if nobody's ever believed in you, but that's why I wanted to sort of shake those cobwebs off. off all right i must get food my friend uh is there anything else you wanted to mention at the end uh.
[2:24:26] Yeah i guess uh no i'm uh i'm a bitcoin guy i'm a bitcoin maxi i'm not i'm not in any of other stuff so i'm not going to be doing anything with sabana i.
[2:24:34] Was just trying to get you to cheat on bitcoin just to see if you were your father's son no i'm just kidding no i'm a bitcoin guy too so yeah i mean there's there's tons of work to do in that space uh we still don't have our evangelist uh if i wasn't into philosophy i would have stepped into that role but we still don't have our mad mad evangelist so maybe that's you maybe that's someone you can inspire but, everyone can contribute so all right will you keep me posted about how things are going.
[2:25:00] Yeah of course.
[2:25:01] All right thanks millbro i appreciate the conversation today.
[2:25:04] Yeah thank you so much.
Support the show, using a variety of donation methods
Support the show
