0:09 - Introduction to the Welfare State
0:28 - Immigration and Changing Sentiments
4:05 - Social Unrest and Welfare Cuts
6:09 - On Civil Unrest and Its Causes
7:43 - Morality and Justice in Society
10:01 - Consequences of Immoral Decisions
11:43 - The British Character Examined
17:25 - The Impact of Bad Choices
24:34 - Detachment from Poor Decisions
26:41 - Responsibility and Societal Choices
31:31 - The Cost of Indifference
33:35 - The Limits of Personal Responsibility
36:09 - Conclusion: Choices and Consequences
This episode dives deep into a thought-provoking conversation surrounding the current socio-economic climate in the UK, particularly in relation to the welfare state and its impending changes. I engage with a caller who shares his insights gained from living both in the UK and Kazakhstan, highlighting a growing concern over a potential decline in social welfare and the emergence of anti-immigrant sentiments. We explore the implications of drawing back the welfare state, including the potential for civil unrest as people accustomed to state support face cuts to their entitlements.
A significant portion of our discussion revolves around the concept of morality and the societal choices that lead to this moment of crisis. I challenge the caller to articulate what the term "fall" means in this context, while he explains that it refers to the inevitable consequences of social unrest stemming from financial strain and the welfare state's decline. We touch upon how tax evasion by the wealthy and a stagnant tax base contribute to the situation, creating a precarious future for average citizens who may soon find themselves without the support they’ve relied upon.
As we delve deeper, the conversation shifts to reflect on the broader moral decay affecting society. I present several difficult hypothetical scenarios to gauge the caller's stance on issues of justice, punishment, and the ethical responses to crime. This leads us into a discussion on the role of the state and the responsibility of individuals within a community to uphold moral standards. Throughout our dialogue, we confront the notion that society has consistently turned a blind eye to immoral decisions, permitting a culture of dependency on state welfare that has inadvertently jeopardized itself.
The caller expresses a mix of sadness and inevitability regarding the deteriorating situation, resonating with his personal ties to the UK. While he acknowledges the grim forecast, I stress that individuals must face the consequences of their collective decisions. A recurrent theme in our exchange is the idea that, through decades of complacency and compromise, people in England have facilitated this state of affairs by consistently opting for short-term comfort over long-term virtue.
We conclude with a strong message about the importance of individual responsibility and the necessity for people to adhere to a principled path. I share my perspective on the significance of moral clarity in decision-making processes while underscoring the innate ability of society to improve its condition if willing to confront uncomfortable truths. We recognize that the root of what ails society lies not only in external circumstances but deeply within the choices made at both the individual and collective levels, emphasizing that true improvement requires a fundamental shift in society’s moral compass.
[0:00] Hi, Stef. So, on what the last listener was talking about, would it be okay to answer that a little bit?
[0:09] Because I think it's really interesting. Is that okay?
[0:15] Well, yes, but I still want to know what is meant by the fall.
[0:19] Okay, well, I know that at least the UK is starting to talk about sort of drawing back the welfare state.
[0:28] And I think the state is sort of concerned about not being able to gather enough money to sustain the welfare state as it exists now and because of that I think there's going to certainly be a lot of decline in terms of social interactions when the people that are used to their gibbs don't get them anymore right and so I think that's probably where like that conversation might have gone um but i think it's hard to see when you're not in the uk i went back there recently i actually live in kazakhstan at the moment and um i teach english here sorry i'm a bit nervous i'm always nervous when i speak to you i spoke to you once before uh briefly um and yeah when i went back the style of immigration there has changed the rhetoric is all about the small boats There is certainly amongst a lot more people than before when I lived in the UK, a growing anti-immigrant sentiment.
[1:31] And I don't think they're able to collect anywhere near as much tax as before. Millionaires have apparently been leaving in droves, and the government is unwilling to tax the center millionaires, the ones that are super involved with the state and the newspapers there. So yeah i i don't think it looks good to be honest in the uk i'll say as much as that also there's a guy who's been talking about the um the fact that the money that came into the uk from covid um how that seems to have gone directly into the pockets of the super in the uk for example growth in the.
[2:19] Um growth of asset wealth for the multi-millionaire class or i think they say decimillionaire class um is up six percent and um this is not necessarily working people most of the time these are just people that own assets um so yeah but the state is completely unwilling to do that understandably um because they kind of think we need to keep uh those people that, um yeah i i don't know uh where the conversation can go from there but i i do think the topic is really interesting the guy who wrote this book um there's a guy who wrote a book about um how he thinks the uk is going like really really downhill quickly in terms of living standards for average people his name is um gary stevenson he used to be a trader in the uk who um basically he made a lot of money betting that the economy was going to get worse and he thinks it's getting worse partly because well that he doesn't he doesn't go into full-on um you know correct libertarian theory but he does certainly do.
[3:37] You even remember what my question was just out of curiosity Yeah.
[3:43] Oh, sorry. Did you ask me? I'm really sorry. I thought you were, I, I could respond to that guy.
[3:51] No, no, because you, you, you did respond to that and you said, can you answer that? And I said, I still need to know what you mean by fall.
[3:58] Oh, I don't know.
[3:59] And now you're taking me on this big multi multimedia journey. And it's like, I still don't know what you mean by fall. What do you mean?
[4:05] Okay okay i guess i mean there being uh social unrest with um people not getting their welfare money anymore because the welfare state is being drawn back uh okay so like that kind of issue are.
[4:25] You saying that what is it when will the u.s run sorry when would the uk run out of money is that right something.
[4:33] Like that yeah.
[4:33] Yeah but that's sort of an impossible thing no sorry good lord okay what what else do you want to say sorry i'm trying to i'm trying to get an answer in here you keep talking but go ahead finish your thought no.
[4:47] No um so i i i kind of mean just when civil unrest will happen there i don't know when money will run out i think that's impossible to tell as well.
[4:55] But if the civil unrest follows the money running out if you don't know when the money can run out then how can you know when the civil unrest will happen.
[5:02] Good point good point but i think it is already running out if they're talking about drawing back the welfare state so i guess it's it's in the process already.
[5:18] Well but the only reason that they would talk about drawing back the welfare state if the money isn't running out would be in order to provoke civil unrest. I mean, the purpose of the welfare state is to create a future conflict by having people dependent on the state, which can't possibly maintain them. So it is to create, conflict. Right? So you get people addicted to this government money, you take away the, and that way you go from buying votes to suppressing the remnants of freedom for the sake of maintaining social order, right? I mean, I think that's the dominoes that are in motion.
[6:10] So what are your feelings about, let's say, that the social benefits are cut back, and let's say there are riots and so on. What are your feelings about that?
[6:28] Um, I think that I, I, I, what do I, I feel obviously sad for some of the individual cases, but I think it was inevitable.
[6:41] Okay. Inevitable is not a feeling. What's your feeling about it?
[6:44] No. Okay. What's my feeling? My feeling's awful. I, I grew up in the UK despite not being from there. Um, there was like, you know, compared to some of the places, some of the other places I grew up i think it was a beautiful place and um you know it's it's awful it's awful and i one of the reasons why i mentioned um this channel talking about uh like changing how, um so basically if the uk runs out of money one way or another not runs out of money what am i talking about if the uk goes into a really bad situation i will feel personally sad like that's why and i do feel sad just seeing that it's not in a great way now because i like that country as simple as that really okay so do.
[7:43] You think that virtue should be rewarded and evil should be punished?
[7:53] Yes. Okay.
[7:55] Do you feel bad if a thief goes to prison?
[8:08] I mean, if he wasn't in a terrible circumstance where he was starving or whatever and he stole an apple.
[8:17] Okay, let's not but let's not get too edge case here. Okay, let me ask you this. A guy breaks into an elderly couple's townhouse because he wants to steal their stuff because he doesn't want to work, and let's say they shoot him. Are you sad that he died?
[8:46] Um yeah i i think it's regrettable that he died but obviously i'm not like they're in the right in what they did and i you know i don't feel that they should feel bad about it because you know they did the right thing.
[8:59] Okay they.
[9:00] Were in risk.
[9:01] Let's say that a man is about to rape a woman and she stabs him and he dies do you feel bad that the rapist has died, and i'm not trying to give you like right or wrong answers i'm just want to understand what what your thoughts are about these things.
[9:19] No i understand and i yeah i in the i don't feel as bad i feel like the the crime is worse somehow and no i do think that's worse and i i you know i, hope that she can you know be okay with what she's done um because you know she needed to do that to defend herself.
[9:41] Okay now what about these immigrant rape gangs in england who've raped a million plus little girls uh is it bad if they go to prison.
[9:54] No of course it's not bad that they go to prison.
[9:56] Is it good that they go to if.
[9:58] They were to yes.
[10:01] Okay all right so i think we've established that bad people it's not bad when bad people get punished is that right, no no okay so in england what has gone wrong, what if if they've got this social unrest coming which you know mathematically they do right so if there's going to be social unrest if there's going to be riots if there's going to be problems, is that the result of immoral decisions on the part of the British people.
[10:45] Yes in part for for sure okay and what i mean what were the wrong decisions what immoral.
[10:50] Sorry what were the immoral decisions that the british people made that would result in these kinds of problems.
[10:59] Well there are many there's this um culture of cowardice when it comes to addressing issues with people from other countries because of being perceived as racist and a bigot and all of that kind of stuff. There's a massive failure to address that. There's obviously the fact that the world first state exists anyway is because people want something for nothing. And that's um you know that's something that is punishable as well like as in that's you're gonna get uh you're gonna have problems with that anyway um.
[11:44] So the british people as a whole have attacked each other for telling some basic moral and practical truths for decades uh for decades now, yes okay so if you resolutely set yourself against morality and truth, can anyone really save you from the consequences.
[12:19] So if you resolutely set yourself against morality and truth, can anyone save you from the consequences? No, because it's a problem that's gone on for so long. And as you say, it's resolute. It's not like they could have been broken out of it. Well, it's not like they chose to break out of it early. It all came once the problem had gotten too big and they seemed to have no other choice.
[12:42] Well, no, they had the Labour Party after the Second World War offered endless amounts of free shit to British people. Right?
[12:56] Yes.
[12:57] And who voted them in?
[13:01] People that were there after the war.
[13:02] Yeah, the people who were there after the war, they voted them in. And the good people in England decided not to push the matter with any particular degree of assertiveness. So, for instance, the people who voted for the welfare state, let's just say the welfare state, which is the cause of most of the other problems. So, the people who voted for the welfare state, those people decided not to push things to the wall and say the people who were against the welfare state they didn't say to their friends and family who voted for the welfare state you are voting in an immoral and evil fashion to take things from the productive and hand them to the unproductive and to steal from the unborn who never voted for this at all in the form of national debts you are immoral and corrupt people and until you learn better or do better i won't have anything to do with you.
[14:07] No they didn't they didn't do that.
[14:16] They didn't do that right okay so the bad people got to enact their greed and the good people stood by and did nothing, See, I know this in particular because I grew up in England and I was abused as a child by a very loud German woman in very paper-thin walled apartments all over the fucking island and in Ireland. Did anyone in England call the cops or social services or talk to my mother at all? Hundreds and hundreds of people listened to the nightly... Hell opera of my abuse and did any of them pick up the fucking phone and call anyone? I mean, sorry, you wouldn't know the answer to that because you're not me.
[15:11] No, but I'm sorry. You've talked about it before, and I'm sorry about that.
[15:15] Yeah, and I appreciate that. But that's England. That's England.
[15:22] Yeah.
[15:24] So they were offered free stuff, paid for by the unborn, and they wouldn't lift one finger to make one phone call over the 11 years I lived in England. Let's say I don't know seven or eight of those years it was more loud that I was being abused or something like that right so that's a pretty that's a pretty representative sample of England, because I mean yes I lived in rent-controlled low-rent apartments for sure but I also was in boarding school I also was around relatives who were upper middle class, so I had a pretty wide cross-section of the British population.
[16:07] Did they give a shit about child abuse, even to the point where they'd make one anonymous phone call which posed no risk to themselves. Anybody rich or poor, family, distant, relations, school, educational. I also went to many churches in England. Did anyone ever ask me how I was doing when I was clearly not doing well? Well, no. I got lectured about having to be a good person, but nobody ever asked me how I was doing, when I was here in Canada and my mother was losing her mind and being institutionalized I had relatives both here in Canada and in England who never once called me up to ask me how I was doing even though they knew my brother had been separated from me and sent back to England for many years, so that is my, comprehension and understanding of the British character it.
[17:06] Greedy, petty, lazy, indulgent, morally superior, morally bankrupt, addicted to falsehoods, and self-congratulatory, pompous statements about loving the world while not giving a shit about abused children in their midst. That's England.
[17:25] Now, if you say to me, well, geez, things are going to come to a bad way in England then basically what you're saying to me is you know there's this guy he's been smoking two packs a day for 30 or 40 years and people have begged and pleaded with him to stop offered to send him to rehab and he just hasn't listened gee Stef, what's going to happen when he gets sick.
[18:01] I mean England has taken a very corrupt route, for many many many decades certainly longer than half a century, they have wanted the appearance of doing good rather than actual virtue, they have not cared enough about their children to want to retain the British character of the island or to not laden them down with endless amounts of international bankster debt. And anyone who tries to bring up any possible objective virtues is shouted down in the most abusive language possible. So England and the British people have chosen their fate.
[18:48] I'm not sure that I understand precisely why I'm supposed to feel terrible that people who've made absolutely corrupt decisions for decades might face bad outcomes. Now, I guess I'd feel bad if I hadn't done everything in my power to change that. But I did do absolutely everything in my power, burnt my reputation to the ground, gave up massive amounts of money in order to tell the truth and bring reason to the world so my conscience is clear bad people making bad decisions chose not to listen to good advice okay so if there's some obese person who keeps eating more and more and more despite the fact that you say this is unhealthy and i'm happy to pay for you to go to therapy and and you can just they won't do it they just and they they condemn you as fat phobic and slam your reputation, are you really supposed to care when that person gets ill from being obese? If they've been absolutely horrible to you for trying to encourage them to a better life, they tried to get you fired. They did get you fired. Maybe they got you fired. They slandered you all over social media.
[20:10] Well the British people as a whole colluded with child abusers, attacked all the truth tellers in their midst and refused to hold any moral standards higher than blank-eyed social conformity, and are they going to come to a bad end well yeah, and I and I'm sure you have done a lot to try and prevent that outcome from coming to pass, but we have no capacity to control people's moral choices, right? We can put out good advice, we can put out the data, we can put out the facts, and Lord knows I've done all of that. And people either accept and embrace the truth and enforce some kind of moral standard, or they get told that the truth tellers are bigots and and terrible people and and then they're just like okay okay well i i i absolutely did my best i went right up to the edge of disaster and got slammed very hard for telling the truth, and people don't want to listen so are they going to come to a bad end well yeah.
[21:37] But how can we expect it to be otherwise? I mean, one of the reasons I'm a moralist is I don't want people to suffer. Right? One of the reasons you tell people don't smoke is because you don't want them to die of lung cancer or COPD or emphysema or some other horrible, horrible ailment, right? And so you are an anti-smoking advocate because you don't want people to suffer. And a lot of times people don't listen. They choose not to listen. They choose to ignore good advice and do things that are very bad for them. Okay.
[22:21] Well, at least smoking is merely a physical addiction. Moral posturing, virtue signaling, pathological altruism. Well, we have to care about everyone in the world. Okay. Well, we should take in all the migrants. Are you taking any into your house? Well, no, of course not. Absolutely not. Okay, so you're just making a bunch of noise so you can feel good rather than actually doing good.
[22:53] Well, it's like if somebody has a toothache and they take heroin to cover up the pain, which means the toothache is going to get worse and they're going to end up with rotten teeth and a heroin addiction. It's like, well, you chose to feel good rather than actually deal with the infection. That's bad, right? But I respect people's choices. I do. I respect people's choices. This is what the populations in the world are deciding to do. They have made that choice. The internet means that nobody has any excuse for not knowing things. There is no excuse that exists in this world anymore and hasn't for the last 20 years, right? There is no excuse in the world. I burned my reputation and my business and my income to the ground to give people instantly shareable facts about morals and crime and demographics and you name it, right? Okay. So they can share and send and they choose not to.
[24:07] They choose to consort with evildoers and to support them, and they choose to snarl and scorn and stomp on the honesty and courage and virtues of those desperately trying to tell them the truth. I think those are bad decisions, I really do. But I respect those decisions. And respecting people's decisions means not shielding them from the consequences.
[24:34] I respect a woman's decision to have sex with whoever she wants whenever she wants that doesn't mean that i'm going to pay a quarter of a million pounds for her to raise her children because i respect her decisions which means i am not responsible for their outcomes i respect the british people's decisions to as a whole avoid a truth and avoid reality when there is the internet.
[25:05] Okay so it means that i am no longer invested in the outcomes of their bad decisions like at some point you just have to disconnect from people who are making relentlessly bad decisions don't you, like if somebody is just destroying their health and gaining weight and and they don't exercise and they smoke like a chimney and like at some point you just have to say okay hey man you're free you're free to do all of that but don't expect me to take you in when you get sick I respect your decision, so with regards to the British people man you're gonna or anyone you gotta have to be ruthless with yourself you have to be ruthless with yourself.
[25:48] Which is if people continually keep making bad decisions, well, they're gonna do what they do and what's gonna happen to them is going to happen to them and, you know this is an old greek saying which says nobody not even the gods can break this fundamental rule take what you want and then pay for it and if you want the appearance of virtue rather than virtue itself, then you can take that and then you will pay a very heavy price and then in the next cycle of mankind people will look back at that and they will say well gee that was a bad fucking idea wasn't it, to go with social conformity, to deny basic facts and reality, math, data, statistics, and morals.
[26:41] When the devil comes along and offers you something for free, all those who rush to sign up and can't be convinced otherwise, well, I guess you belong to the devil now, and I'm no longer invested in the outcome, if that makes any sense.
[26:57] It does. It does. Thank you. By the way, you mentioned your effort, and it is a heroic effort that you put in to talk to people about this issue. So I can completely understand why your conscious is clean. I guess the reason I felt sad, and I don't want to just go back to that point. The reason I felt sad is I could have done more. I shared stuff, I talked to people, but I still feel like I could have done more of the time there. And I know you mentioned the horrors that you experienced with people not helping you when you're in the UK. But the truth for me is that people there helped me in regards to problems outside of even that country more than people would in my own country. And so I still feel, i can't be completely attached to the burden because it's not just the people that i've met obviously this has been happening for a long time but you know i still feel as though there was enough good people there to merit um more effort you know not from you like okay so.
[28:11] The good people who.
[28:12] Were there did.
[28:14] They shun evildoers.
[28:15] Yes like well so they cut off family members.
[28:20] Who voted for than any state.
[28:22] No they didn't do that okay they're not good people.
[28:26] Stop being sentimental, stop being sentimental ostracism is the most powerful tool in the peaceful human, lexicon and if they were willing to break bread with people voting for the destruction, Of their values Then they did not take a stand, And that's fine. They chose to enable and be friends with people who were voting to destroy all the values and all the virtues that they believed in. Okay, that's fine. But I'm not going to pretend that they're really good people then because good people take a stand, don't they?
[29:18] They do.
[29:19] Okay, so they didn't.
[29:22] No.
[29:26] It was a British newspaper, I think, if I remember rightly, that attacked me first.
[29:31] Yes the Daily Mail.
[29:33] Right was it the Guardian Daily Mail I can't remember anymore but, so and that's who the British people decided to side with, so I mean that they made there was that fork in the road they made their choice, i can't care about people more than they care about themselves that's that's a recipe for, mental and emotional collapse that's like a slow motion suicide to care people i don't know if you've ever been in a situation where you care been caring about someone more than they care about themselves but it will it will eat you alive you will be destroyed if you try to care about people more than they care about themselves.
[30:36] I mean, I remember back in the day when I was attacked, right? Because I told a young man he didn't have to stay in an abusive relationship with his parents. He said he couldn't leave. And I said, well, you can leave. I'm not saying you should leave. I'm just saying that physically you can. He's breaking up family. He's a cult leader, right? And I looked. I looked at the blogs afterwards and so on. Not one defense. Not one defense of me. And this was a conversation that was recorded and published publicly, right? Not one defense of me. Everybody just sliding into the mainstream consensus opinion, right? There's a terrible cult leader, right? Even though I was just saying something that was factually true and not telling the guy to leave his family, right?
[31:22] Yeah. So.
[31:31] Even when they had access to the actual conversation. Excuse me, it didn't matter. People did not, support or defend me. They sided with some pretty terrible people. Okay.
[31:59] Yes. Thank you.
[32:03] And am I supposed to ring myself into knots? over negative things happening to that population as a whole.
[32:23] I can't prevent the consequences of bad decisions. I cannot prevent it. I'm helpless. I cannot prevent somebody who lives on a steady diet of, cheesecake and apple pie i cannot prevent the ill health that results from that i can't do it i can't stop it it's beyond my power it's beyond anyone's power do you see what i mean, we do and i refuse to put emotional efforts into, things which I empower us to change. I can make my exhortations. I can try to tell people to do better things. Sure. Absolutely.
[33:36] But I can't undo the damage that cigarettes do to lungs. I can try to tell them to stop smoking. But if they choose to keep smoking, I have to detach.
[33:56] I would suggest you do too. Now, if you say, well, you should have done more. I have, for myself, I have a particularly high sense of obligation because I have particularly good communication skills. I've been hearing this since I was a teenager, how good I am at breaking down complex topics into understandable language. So, I have a particular responsibility.
[34:31] Which maybe you don't share i know i'm quite unusual in my capacity to communicate effectively about complex topics, so i don't think that your responsibility and my responsibility would be the same plus you know it was also my job and probably not yours, but no i mean the world for at least the last 20 years with me the world has had its moralist and others of course then the world has had its sophists and the world keeps going to the sophists okay well you know i think that's a bad idea it's not what i've done it's not what i recommend but people think that they can survive the death of their moralists they really don't mean cultures do this all the time they think they can just vote to put socrates to death and still survive they can't.
[35:29] They can't. And people think that their little moral decisions, well, I'll just, I'm not going to confront so-and-so because, you know, they're kind of aggressive and, you know, it's Christmas and I don't want to upset people or it's Easter and, you know, granny is blah, blah, blah. It's like, okay, well, that's a choice. That's a choice. And the choice of each of these little compromises is that just civilization is going to die. And people say well it's just me I'm just an individual I get that I get that.
[36:09] But it's your conscience that is yours and that's what matters so people have decided to go with the mainstream narrative to not rock the boat for the most part and certainly they have not decided to shun evildoers, or those who are voting in truly immoral ways and they certainly hey everyone's free to do that you're free to consult with evil, and nobody not even God himself, can undo the consequences of those choices alright so I hope that helps and I really do appreciate everybody dropping by today it's a great chat freedomain.com slash donate to help out the show and push back against the deplatforming freedomain.com slash donate. I really do appreciate everyone's time, care and attention on a beautiful day like today. I hope that you have a wonderful rest of the day. We will speak to you tomorrow night on our regularly scheduled Friday Night Live. Thanks, everyone. Bye.
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