0:07 - Welcome to the Podcast Discussion
0:52 - The Struggle of Admitting Wrong
5:16 - Engaging with Media Saboteur
5:47 - Exploring the Bronze Age Mindset
12:36 - Masculinity and Relationships
14:21 - The Role of Decision-Making
16:43 - The Importance of Masculine Identity
22:37 - The Purpose of Exercise and Health
23:58 - The Goal of Happiness
28:10 - Measuring Moral Improvement
34:08 - The Nature of Slavery and Freedom
49:07 - Reflections on Personal Journeys
54:50 - Final Thoughts and Goodbyes
59:56 - Kindness at the Catholic Church
1:02:00 - Improving Social Skills
1:04:47 - Navigating Positive Interactions
1:25:28 - Finding Meaning in Work
1:34:50 - Materialism and Happiness
1:54:55 - Self-Sorting Mechanisms in Life
In today's episode, I delve into the intricate conversations happening right now in our society—conversations about self-awareness, responsibility, and the duality of human nature. The dialogue is sparked by encouraging listeners to reflect on the individuals around them—do they struggle to admit when they're wrong? This question sets the stage for an exploration of self-doubt versus self-assurance and its impacts on mental health. Acknowledging wrongs, I argue, is foundational to our humanity, akin to a Shakespearean tragedy where characters grapple with their own ethical dilemmas.
I draw parallels between Shakespeare's "Hamlet," where the protagonist's skepticism about avenging his father's murder illustrates the vital importance of questioning established narratives. I liken this to modern societal views, such as some current ideologies that overlook the complexity and diversity of human behavior in favor of simple, albeit flawed, explanations for inequality and struggle. Self-awareness, I assert, is a critical virtue that should be cultivated rather than feared.
Transitioning into a more personal realm, I recount a conversation with a listener about the "Bronze Age Mindset" and its philosophical underpinnings. Our discussion dips into Nietzschean vitalism—a celebration of strength and vitality—contrasting it with the importance of ethical frameworks that guide not just action but the very nature of interpersonal relationships. I emphasize the need for a balance between personal empowerment and communal responsibility, navigating through the often murky waters of modern media influences and their impacts on self-perception and morality.
Listeners are invited to partake in further exploration of these themes, tackling not only the philosophical inquiries behind our behaviors and beliefs but also the practical implications as they relate to parenting and interpersonal dynamics. As I expand on how we define masculinity and femininity, a question arises about the cultural narratives surrounding relationships and partnerships. The underlying message remains clear: the pursuit of character integrity is crucial in creating fulfilling interactions in an increasingly fragmented world.
Through engaging with various callers, each bringing their unique perspectives and inquiries, I seek to deepen our collective understanding of how to navigate life's moral complexities. The pressing need to embrace doubts, foster resilience, and ultimately engage with the transformative power of ethical living becomes the crux of our discussion. The episode culminates in an appreciation of the shared journey toward self-improvement, mutual respect, and a commitment to building healthy familial and social connections that withstand the tests of adversity.
This conversation not only reinforces the value of our shared humanity but also paves the way for ongoing dialogue about how we shape our lives and the lives of others through the choices we make—both seen and unseen.
[0:00] So, hello, everybody. Welcome to Friday the 20th of June 2025, a glorious time.
[0:08] I thought we'd be in space, but instead we're just shuffling around human populations on the planet like a tarot card deck, trying to see what the outcomes will be, although it's fairly predictable. So I was having a conversation. For those of you who don't know, I do call in shows. I mean, if you're new-ish to what it is that I do, I do call in shows where you can call in and talk about any topic you want. We can debate anything with philosophy. Of course, I have 30 years entrepreneurial business experience. Happy to talk about that. And these can be public calls, which are free, or they can be private calls, which are paid, just so you know. So
[0:39] I was chatting.
[0:40] With a fellow this morning, and he said I could talk about some of the contents of the conversation. So let me ask you this, my friends, and this can be any topic you want. I'm just throwing something out there to start.
[0:52] Do you have people in your life who can't admit when they're wrong. Bone-chilling, bone-chilling, I tell you. Do you have people in your life who cannot admit when they are wrong? Now, we can talk about that and the effects of all of that on your sanity, on your mental health, because people who can't admit that they're wrong have a strange kind of power in this world,
[1:17] A strange kind of power.
[1:18] It's the Claudius versus Hamlet thing, if you're familiar with the great Shakespearean play, perhaps the greatest play ever penned, which is that hamlet is the prince of denmark who is supposed to i think it's okay to do spoilers if it's over 400 years old i think that's fair to say right spoiler in the bible jesus wins so with hamlet he plays a medieval or he's a medieval danish prince who has to avenge his father's murder his father was murdered by his uncle claudius and his father's ghost appears to him at the beginning of the play and honestly the the mel gibson one is fantastic in my opinion
[1:54] And says, avenge me, avenge me. And Hamlet is like, yeah, could be. Could be a ghost telling me to avenge my father, or it could be something sent by Satan to get me to murder an innocent man so I go to hell itself. In other words, he has relatively modern scientific, rational, empirical skepticism against the rank superstition of his age. Now, to grow out of superstition is tough because you have to start doubting things. And of course, a lot of superstition throughout history is enforced through violence in the same way that the modern superstitions of wokeism, that everyone's a blank slate and everyone's equal and all differences between individuals and groups in terms of economic outcomes or social outcomes is the result of bigotry and prejudice rather than any other factors. That's sort of a superstition. And it's enforced fairly aggressively, I suppose we could say. I'm back from my exile in part because of that aggression, so
[2:51] To have doubt is to be mature. To have no doubt is to be primitive, but powerful. To never doubt yourself is extremely dangerous and extremely powerful. It's one of the one rings of power that people have the most access to. So if you know people in your life who don't doubt themselves, who are never wrong, everything is everyone else's fault. And this is traditionally associated with women, although I've known as many men, if not more men, who have that particular approach. Nothing is ever their fault. Everything that's bad that's happened is some domino effect of other people's choices. They have no particular agency. When they fail, all their successes they count as personal triumphs. All their failures are the responsibilities of everyone else. There's a peculiar kind of shark or dolphin-like leanness and efficiency to that perspective. To never doubt yourself is wild. I can't conceive of such a thing. To never doubt yourself. My gosh. I mean, And I'm fairly sure when I get up in the morning that the floor is solid. I'm fairly sure. I think the issue is that when I was, I've been a stay-at-home dad for like 16 plus years.
[3:59] So my major issue with getting out of bed in the morning is that I played so many games of the floor is lava with my daughter that I'm expecting a soupy vat of molten earth juice. So yeah, if you've had people in your life who are just absolutely certain, never any doubt, never any self-criticism. Everything is everyone else's fault. You either kind of got to fix them, in my view, or they will drive you mad. They will drive you mad. There's a lack of self-criticism
[4:29] I mean, we saw this in Tucker Carlson with Ted Cruz, if you saw that conversation, which is theater, right? It's theater, but it's interesting theater. It's good theater, which is, you know, if I say something wrong, incorrect or whatever in a tweet or something like that, even a typo, I'm like, don't, you know, Holmes Simpson full on fading into the fence, don't. And I'm like, oh, kind of mad at myself sometimes and all of that. But apparently human beings can just start entire wars, destroy entire countries and lose not one wink of sleep. There's a certain power in a lack of self-doubt that would drive you mad if you're in too long a proximity with it. And just be very, very careful about that. And I'm, of course, happy to talk about any topic you want to. And that's interesting.
[5:16] So that's interesting. So somebody has a request to talk, which is great. And I guess you could It's a I'm media adjacent.
[5:24] I'm media ish.
[5:25] And this person who wants to talk is called media saboteur, media saboteur, which sounds like the worst sandwich you get in an Italian restaurant. But nonetheless, we shall screw our courage to the sticking place, Macbeth style. And we will talk to media saboteur. My brother, what is on your mind?
[5:45] Hey, step in long time, Dan. Thanks for having me up. I used to watch.
[5:47] I used to listen to your, uh, your channel religiously almost while I'm working out. I have a question about what you may or may not know about the Bronze Age mindset, Bronze Age pervert sphere of this app, because you're drawing quite a bit of attention to this sphere. And his whole, I guess you could say his whole underlying thesis is kind of a sun and steel, which is about working out. And it's vitalism. It's Nietzschean, like you said yesterday, regarding the whole, you know, this kind of a rebellious type of. Kind of, I guess, underlying ethos and vitalism and so forth. And it's my opinion that this kind of thing should be, and it's funny you said that you were a late teen, you got into this stuff into your late teens. And it's been my kind of suggestion that, you know, Bronze Age mindset is most ideal for 15-year-old white kids. And I don't know, I don't know what you know about this, what your kind of observations may be on all this, if you know about it at all. But yeah, he seems to be already taking potshots at you on Twitter. And I find it kind of funny, actually. Any thoughts on this?
[6:54] Well, I mean, if anyone can contact him, tell him I'm doing a space and he can come and take potshots at me in person. That's much more honorable. If he's into sun and steel and bronze and manliness, then he should take potshots at me on Twitter. He should come and confront me in the full glory of his, I'm sure, white-packed manhood. So, I mean, I've seen the names floating around. I don't really know what they talk about. Uh in sort of vague this has nothing to do with them but i have a vague association that there was a guy around many years called the golden one and he had this amazing physique like just an absolutely glorious physique and people were complaining like well this guy does a lot of shows with his shirt off i'm like bro if i had that physique you couldn't pay me enough money to put my shirt on it's just not possible so i i don't know much about this world as a whole if you want to inform me, or if he wants to come by and chat and critique me in a masculine and robust fashion, I'd be overjoyed to chat with him.
[7:48] Yeah, it's an odd collision because your side of things deals more with atheism, and he's more of a, I guess he's more of a classical Roman pagan, if you want to put it in the most bluntest of terms. But yeah, it's an interesting collision course I already see coming from 100 miles away as far as both of your kind of teachings, I guess, but.
[8:09] It was kind of, I was DMing someone in the private chats about, you know, how long until BAP just starts taking potshots at Molyneux on Twitter.
[8:18] And then literally an hour after I mentioned it, like he starts taking potshots at you on Twitter. So anyway, I just wanted to.
[8:25] No, that's fine. Do you have any of those potshots handy? Maybe you could read one or two and I could get a sense of, you know, honestly, I know that it's an odd thing for a public figure. I am very keen for robust criticism. I'm very keen for, I won't say criticism in good faith, but a criticism that is designed for mutual improvement is always a great thing. Like I had this wild debate with the quote, I sort of, he was an evolutionary moralist, which is sort of a contradiction in terms yesterday. And it was a great debate. I really enjoyed it. And I gave him great praise at the end. And I think that's a mutual improvement. I think you got a bit snarky afterwards, but that's just youthful male pride. I've been there. I understand that. But so if he's got good criticisms, I would, Love to hear them because Lord knows we can't improve on our own and sanity and mental health is a social construct. We're not designed to be rational and correct in isolation. We need people around us to give us positive feedback, keep us on the right path. Every good athlete needs a coach, blah, blah, blah. So I've vamped for enough time if you've got a quote or two of his that we can. And again, he's welcome to come and
[9:28] Yeah, if you look up in the Jumbo, actually, my account's private. I'm not sure if you can see it, but I just threw it up in the Jumbo. And he just said, he just remarked, this isn't true to your tweet from yesterday saying, lifting increases testosterone, which means you will attract more feminine women, which means life without being controlled and nagged. Beautiful. And he just said, this isn't true. And literally, I was...
[9:53] Well, hang on. That's fairly nonspecific. I mean, it was a public place. I mean, I'm aware that lifting weights only raises your testosterone temporarily, but general health keeps your testosterone higher as a whole. So, it's not some, you know, boost that stays up and up forever, but it definitely is a boost. And the other thing, too, is, of course, that weights, lifting weights, and I don't necessarily mean in a gym or part of gym culture or anything like that. I work out at home on a secondhand gym equipment. So, it's really not a big thing. You can do it with cans of paint. It doesn't really matter, right? So but lifting is lifting is not separate from cardio if you lift hard enough your heart rate goes up quite considerably i'm not saying it's exactly as good as cardio and so on so yeah so so the one claim that lifting raises your testosterone it does but it's temporary as far as i know i'm no expert in this so do your own research none of this is any kind of health advice so that's the first thing so if he if he was assuming i meant it permanently then that would be correct and what was the second thing i'm looking through i'm
[10:56] Scrolling through his tl right now i haven't
[10:58] Seen no no sorry the second thing that he was uh criticizing so if oh so if you if you have a higher testosterone that in general this is through exercise and being healthy in general and obviously keeping your weight at a healthy level because as far as i understand it higher a higher bmi means lower testosterone assuming that the bmi is like visceral fat or something like that. So will you attract a more feminine woman if you are a higher T man? The answer to that appears to be yes. Like the pharognomes that go on between men and women are really astonishing. The pharognomes are so detailed that they can even pick out genetic compatibility in terms of producing the healthiest, at least genetically compromised, or at least the least at risk to be genetically compromised children. The pharognomes that go on between males and females are really astonishing. And certainly it has been my experience that the more masculine you are, the more feminine. I mean, I've been happily married for like 23 years to a woman I literally, like, I've never been nagged. We've never raised a voice at each other. Obviously, we've never called each other names. We have a fairly minor conflict about something important maybe once a year. And it usually is, it always has been very productive. I don't want to change anything about her. She's perfect the way she is, and it's just an easy, wonderful, and beautiful relationship. And she's quite feminine, and I would say that I'm fairly masculine. And
[12:26] Works out really well. And I'm not just trying to extrapolate from my own experience to the world as a whole, but in general, the more masculine you are, the more feminine a woman you will attract.
[12:37] And we can sort of understand this anecdotally that if a man is, you know, very soy in a way, very, and I say this with sympathy, I don't mean this as any kind of insult because like myself, a lot of men have been raised by single mothers and therefore masculinity is a bit of a challenge. And I think that single motherhood even itself has an effect on testosterone for males at father and so on probably so so i say this with great sympathy i don't mean to like soy boy any kind of insult i
[13:01] Say this with sort of.
[13:02] Great sensitivity i hope and and sympathy but if you are too uncertain if you are too hesitant if you are too doubtful as a man well things have to be decided in the world in your life like you have to decide what you're going to do with your life you have to decide how you're going to make your money You're going to have to decide how to resolve conflicts. You have to decide who your friends are. You have to decide how much you exercise, what you eat. You have to decide what hobbies you have. I mean, there's so many decisions that need to be made. And if a man is too tentative, let's see he's in a relationship with a woman or whatever. If he's too tentative, well, things have to be decided. And if the man won't decide,
[13:41] Who has to decide?
[13:42] Well, it has to be the woman. And she's going to try and encourage him to decide. But if he's too indecisive, the woman is going to have to step up and make pretty major decisions. Now, of course, women should make major decisions, blah, blah, blah, but if she has to make major decisions, not just for herself or for the relationship, but for the man himself, then she is taking on the role that he should be taking on, which is his own masculine identity,
[14:05] To make decisions.
[14:06] And if a man is too uncertain and the woman has to step up and make most, if not all, of the major decisions she's taking on, a masculine role with regards to him,
[14:15] Right?
[14:15] I'm not saying everyone who makes decisions is a man. People will misunderstand if they want, but I sort of want to be clear for those in the margins.
[14:21] So if you are decisive and make your good decisions, or at least make reasonably good decisions, then the woman can relax knowing at least that your life decisions are taken care of by you, and she can focus on other things. So yeah, I mean, I think it's the case that the more decisive you are as a man, then the less a woman has to make your decisions for you, and therefore she can relax into more of a feminine role and work on other things where there are important decisions to be made. So I think that's fairly incontrovertible, but again, I'm sort of happy to hear contradictory evidence and what
[14:59] Else did he say? Yeah, yeah, he, oh,
[15:01] Sorry, sorry. Let me just finish this, which means a life without being controlled and that. Well, sure, sure. So if you are a masculine man and you have a feminine woman, and look, I know that these are somewhat subjective terms and it's, you know, it's a ragged draw around a ragged circle, right? But we know, there's edge cases, of course, but we know in general. So if you have a feminine woman and you are a masculine man and you love femininity as I do,
[15:32] And your woman.
[15:34] Loves masculinity as a good wife and girlfriend, or at least a compatible wife and girlfriend does, then I love femininity. My wife is wonderful at
[15:43] Being a woman and a wife and a mother.
[15:46] So why would I want to control her and anger? because she is perfect at what she does. And she doesn't want to control or nag me because she respects and appreciates what I do. And so to have a life where you're masculine and your wife is feminine is wonderful. I mean, a lot of men associate femininity with the sort of nagging, bitchy, high stress, you know, that sort of prince mother in When Doves Cry, you know, maybe you're just like my mother, she's never satisfied. Well, that is a woman, I would say, who can't relax into the protection and provision provided by a strong man, and therefore she's always at a ragged edge and tense and so on. So But, I mean, if he says this is wrong, okay, great. Then tell me how it's wrong and provide some data, you know, and I would be happy to correct it. But just saying this is wrong is...
[16:43] I agree.
[16:44] Well, it's not very Roman, actually, because the Romans were really good debaters and very good rhetoricians, and they didn't just say, meh, didn't just give you the golden buzzer of doom or something like that. But, yeah, happy to chat and certainly happy to be corrected. And I do, as far as the sort of sun and steel guys, I mean,
[17:00] The fact that.
[17:01] They want men to—it's just to sun your balls, guys.
[17:06] Look, yeah, this is like something that—it's my kind of opinion that for a Bronze Age mindset, this kind of, I guess, ethos. I mean, it's great and everything. It's a vital—it's based on—he very much bases his, I guess, his underlying thesis on this publication on Schopenhauer and Nietzsche. It's geared toward 15-year-old white guys. I think it's most ideal for, and then no older than 25. Once you're past 25 years old,
[17:32] I think you should be moving on to something else.
[17:34] But moreover to him, I doubt he'll ever get on. He never gets on to spaces to debate. You would run circles around him in a debate. But where you might hear him remark is his podcast, Caribbean Rhythms, which you can download on, which you could find on.
[17:48] Wait, hang on, hang on. Is he Bronze Age or Roman or Caribbean? This seems a little, this is starting, like the spaceship of consciousness is breaking up in the upper atmosphere, Captain. but anyway all right Caribbean rhythms yeah
[18:00] Yeah well his name's his name's actually Kostan Alamaru I'm not like doxing him or anything but he's a he's a Yale Yale educated just kind of author I wouldn't even go so far to call him like a to be truthful I see you as more of a philosopher than him but As far as his influence has spread quite, I guess you could say, prolifically through into the minds of where the minds it should be going into, which are like the younger, younger white guys.
[18:30] Just out of curiosity, why? I mean, why white guys? Is it because white people need more sun? I mean, is that what he's talking about?
[18:37] I can't explain that. But like, if you read it, if you read Bronze Age Mindset, you'll kind of understand what I'm saying. You just got to like, I guess you got to read it. It's one of these.
[18:46] So, listen, let me just interrupt for a sec here because certainly, look, I have a lot of respect. This doesn't count for anything. It's not like that means it's better. I'm just telling you personally. I have a lot of respect for the exercise guys and the sunlight guys and the, you know, get out, touch grass. You know, sun your balls. Okay, that's fine. I appreciate that. I didn't have much luck on that, but I was on an airplane, so it may have been a little bit different and windy. But I think it's great that they want to get guys to exercise and get out. And, you know, there's a lot of people who've turned into puddle-ass catcher question marks in terms of their posture from hunching over video games for most of their teenage years. And to get them out and get them to move around is fantastic. I mean, I just checked my stats the other day. I walk eight and a half kilometers a day. So it's good. You know, get out, move around, and get out into sunlight, get some sports, get some exercise, get some muscles. I think that's all fantastic. It really is. But the question is, for what? For what? Now, I enjoy movement, but my primary goal with diet and exercise is to think better and longer. I feel very much like I was given half a gift from the gods in terms of the brain and
[20:08] Eloquence that I.
[20:09] Have. I mean, whether people agree or not, I have been one of the biggest and most influential philosophers in history in terms of like I've had just a billion views and downloads and I get emails all the time about how much philosophy has changed and helped people. So I feel like I was given this great gift. And if you're given a great gift that you did not earn, I did not earn my intelligence. I did not earn my ability with analogies. I've certainly developed it,
[20:33] But sure.
[20:33] I mean, but if you have a great singing voice, you're more likely to take singing lessons. It doesn't mean the singing lessons are going to give you a great voice. so i
[20:41] Have been given a gift that i.
[20:44] Feel very grateful for and will try to use to my very best efforts for the betterment of the world as a whole now being given a great gift is also being given a great responsibility if you happen to inherit a billion dollars then you have a responsibility to take care of that money to use it for good hopefully to increase it at least not lose it, maintain it at the worst scenario. It's not just yours to frivolously spend. And so the gifts that I've been given, I do not use for personal gain. I try not to use for personal gain. I try to use for the betterment of the world because I could have been, I mean, I know I was really big in sales. I could have been really great in politics. I could have been really great in a variety of fields where eloquence and persuasiveness are very well rewarded, but I really wanted to rope the sort of wild steers of my being and point them in a direction that is good for humanity as a whole. So
[21:39] For me, the.
[21:40] Sort of diet and exercise stuff is part of maintaining the
[21:43] Gift that I was given.
[21:44] For the betterment of the world, because the longer I can do philosophy, the better. So diet and exercise is obviously a pretty key thing for longevity. And the better I can think, the better for the world. And so exercise increases blood flow to the brain. Exercise helps prevent things like dementia, as far as I understand it. And so, for me, there's a for what? I mean, I don't hate it. I don't love exercise, but I don't hate it. I'm like, oh, God, I've got to go exercise. But I don't love it. But it's, for me, important for the sake of maintaining the gifts that I've been given. Now, in terms of the guys who have the great physiques and have
[22:27] Got the abs.
[22:28] And, you know, good for you. Great. You know, I'm not, I don't have any particular issue with it, but the question is for what, for what end?
[22:38] Now, of course, the end goal of life is happiness. This is straight up Aristotelianism. This is not my formulation, which doesn't mean it's right or wrong. I'm just saying it's not mine. But there's a logical consistency to it in that when you drive home, the purpose is to get home. When you get home, you stop driving because that's your end point. And we say, well, I make money. I go to work in order to make money. Well, why do you have to make money? Well, in order to buy things. Why do you buy things? Well, to avoid unhappiness or to achieve happiness. The reason I pay for a house is to avoid living in the streets, which is not super fun anywhere, but particularly negative in Canada. Why do I buy something frivolous? Because I think it will bring me happiness and so on. And sometimes it does. You can buy little bits of happiness here and there. So when you look at everything that you do, the end goal is usually happy. You don't say, well, I've achieved happiness in order to what? Well, that's the end goal. That's the last stop on the line. That's when you have gotten home from the drive home. So you stop driving. So whatever you do to achieve happiness. Now, for me, I love philosophy. I love having these conversations. It brings me extreme delirious pleasure to have these conversations. And I want to have as high quality conversations for as long as possible for the betterment of humanity. That
[23:57] Brings me great.
[23:58] Joy so for me the exercise is i mean i do like sports and and i'm fairly good at at sports i've won a couple of tournaments here and there but nothing obviously nothing major right but not not bad so for me the end goal of diet and exercise is the promotion of virtue through conversations now i'm not sure and perhaps if you've been around this world What is the purpose of of all of this high tea, ball sunning, endless crunches, dips in creatine and whatever it is that they're doing, what is the purpose of it? What is it for? Is it to get laid? Well, that's pretty base, right? That's pretty undignified and that's pretty hedonistic and certainly not moral. I mean, not getting laid is moral as long as you're in a happy relationship with the goal of pair bonding for the sake of children. Fantastic, right? So what is their goal?
[24:56] Yeah, so that's a great question. To that point, exactly. There is kind of a hedonistic undertone to it, but I think it's more tertiary to the underlying ethos. His overarching ethos seems to be like the advocation of a militaristic order. But what's always been, like I said, I've had to read this book like six different times since the first time I read it in like 2018 or something. And I do audiobooks just because it's more efficient for me that way. But, you know, it's kind of a, it overarches into the sun, steel, and military ethos
[25:32] Among young men. Like a Spartan thing.
[25:34] But, yeah, but, you know, at the end of it, though, it's kind of like a military ethos to what? Like, it's kind of, he's definitely not pro-America as far as, like, he's not advocating, like, a pro-American stance. It's a pro-Western type of militaristic ethos that goes to blank, in my mind. It's very dark. there's kind of a drop off there and I don't, you know, it's kind of, you know, there's, there's not really much of a,
[26:01] He, he kind of.
[26:02] He kind of falls just stop short of, of, of getting too, too specific on that front. But definitely where he, where his work has thrived has been, like I said, sun, steel, vitalism and, promoting, promoting, promoting exactly that. And it happens to resonate with, uh, with young white men.
[26:20] And like, I guess it could be a short ring.
[26:23] Go ahead.
[26:25] No, go ahead. Sorry, I apologize. I'm sorry, Rude, I interrupted. Go ahead.
[26:29] I was just saying, it's a short read. I mean, it's very, I mean, you can play the audio in like five hours, tops of you. It's great for like a car, like on your car trips, you could finish it in like, you know, two round trips in a car or something on a long trip. Yeah. But that's, so to answer your question, there seems to be more of an overarching militaristic ethos. And then there's a tertiary, like I said, like a secondary type of, like almost an external kind of. Oh yeah hedonism is all right i mean like i said he's coming at this from like a pagan angle and it's like so the so the obtaining and attracting women and so forth that's kind of whereas you might see this you might be more in line with i'm not gonna i hate to use this guy's name jordan peterson as far as like you know to what ends like marriage and all this kind of thing but he he brand that's where he branches out as far as the the uh the attracting women part of it is, is he, he goes off into, yeah, you might as well be hedonistic. It's, that's probably just, you know, that's, that's just, that's kind of a par for the course when you're trying to do. Yeah.
[27:35] So he's, he's more, he's more late Roman and Caribbean than early Roman and Spartan. Okay. Got it. Yeah. So my, my issue is I view all those without a practical, achievable and measurable goal to be working against the interests of morality. So there's an old statement in business. Of course, I was in the business world for many, many years as a software entrepreneur and executive, and I did research and development. I ran a team of 30 people. I did travel. I did presentations at conferences.
[28:10] I did the whole gamut except for accounting. I did just about, And then I was a director of marketing and so on. So in the business world, you cannot manage what you cannot measure. This is the big challenge with marketing. And I know this sounds esoteric. I'll rope it in relatively quickly. I virtually promise you. But in marketing, of course, there's all of this stuff. Well, I'm raising
[28:35] Consciousness of the.
[28:36] Product. I'm infiltrating market segments, and I'm raising the profile. And all of these things, it's like, how do I measure that?
[28:43] Right?
[28:43] And there's things in business that you have to measure. You have to measure your income because cash flow is king and your income can be variable. And I've worked in industries where it took 30, 60, sometimes even 90 days to get paid, but boom, boom, boom, every two weeks, your payroll is your Pac-Man eating up your glowing dots and you better damn well have the money or you're going out of business. So there's stuff that is very empirical and very measurable.
[29:06] And when I worked as a gold panner and prospector in the northern wastes of Canada, everything that I did was measurable and tangible and very real. And this is why I never take anyone particularly seriously as a thinker if they've never done any manual labor, because they're too infected by language and thus subjectivity. You have to have wrestled with brute, absolute, factual nature for some significant portion of your life to be taken seriously at all, because otherwise your empiricism is the minds of other people. It's books and words and language. And all of these things can be manipulated, but nature and reality cannot. So for people to be ground down into a submissive form of empiricism usually takes wrestling with absolute nature for a considerable period of time. I don't just mean like, well, I had a weekend job on occasion where I dug a ditch, but when I was working up north, I was two days flight from any hospital. So you had to be very, very careful with the drills and we had flamethrowers that we used to burn through the permafrost. And one wrong move and you're dead. So you have to have absolute submissive respect for nature, reality, gravity, temperature, and its properties. So
[30:19] I would say that you have to be able to measure things. When it comes to morals, people saying, well, I'm promoting morality. I'm trying to get people to do the right thing. It's all very abstract. It's all not measurable. Now, of course, the question then comes to me, which is a very fair question. Okay, Steph, Mr. Measurement, what do you measure?
[30:37] Well, what I measure is, of course, number of listeners, number of viewers, the emails that I get, the praise that I get for what philosophy has done for people.
[30:48] But i did a tweet some years ago which was as i said before i'm actually quite proud of it was voted the worst tweet ever which was a tweet about taylor swift and fertility and i did a calculation it's not perfect but it's not imperfect either that approximately 60 000 babies were born as a result of that tweet this is just some basic math which i'm fairly familiar with for many years yeah and i've done another calculation that says about 1.5 billion fewer instances of child abuse have occurred as a result of my work in this show on peaceful parenting because i want to promote the non-aggression principle now there are lots of libertarians who want to promote the non-aggression principle and they talk about oh you know maybe we can eliminate the income tax or boy central banking has got to go and no more foreign aid and things like that. That's like, okay, but you can't really measure any of that stuff. What I can do in practical terms with the reduction of the non-aggression principle is when you focus on promoting a moral, you want to promote opposition to three things. Number one, the most widespread violation of the non-aggression principle. That's number one. Number two, the most damaging violation of the non-aggression principle. Number three, that you can do the most about.
[32:07] The most widespread, the most damaging, that you can do the most about. I mean, this is how you'd fight a fire in a city. You'd look at the most damaging fires that were the most widespread that you could do the most about. Anything. This is triage, right? This is how you do triage in the ER or in a war theater, right? You say, okay, who's got the worst injury that is the most widespread damage that I can do the most about? Now, the most widespread is a little bit different because we're talking about multiples. So with regards, this is a simple calculation that I did at the beginning of my career, which is to say, what is the most widespread violation of the non-aggression principle that does the most damage that we can do the most about? And the answer is obviously child abuse. Child abuse is by far the most widespread violation of the non-aggression principle. It does the most damage because it forms and shapes and destroys, in many cases, a child's developing personality. And we can do something about it because we can all talk about it. We can all refuse to hit and scream at our children. We can all avoid neglecting our children, which is a very insidious form of child abuse.
[33:11] So coming out of sort of the libertarian tradition, the non-aggression principle is key. Well, What is the most widespread violation of the non-aggression principle that does the most damage that we can do the most about? And it has to fulfill all of these three criteria. It's just a simple sort-by algorithm. You know, you sort by, you know, in Windows Explorer, you click on the header, sort by most recent. Okay, well, sort by most prevalent, most destructive that we can do the most about. Child abuse is, there's not even a close second. There's not even a close second. And, of course, children are subject to the non-aggression, violations of the non-aggression principle. Without any consent or freedom. So you could say, well, what about spousal abuse? Well, spousal abuse is terrible, but the spouses chose each other and can leave at any time. Children did not choose their parents and cannot leave.
[33:59] So that to me is, okay, what's measurable? And to sort of bring it to the close here, okay, so we've got the bronze ball tanners.
[34:08] And I say this like tongue in cheek, but that's fine. No problem with, I guess, that. But what are they measuring? How are they measuring their progress in the moral improvement of mankind? I've got very specific numbers. I've got very specific goals. And I've done everything I can to work as hard as possible to achieve them. And so, I mean, I will compare that record to other people and say, is this a shtick or a gig? Or is this a calling? A calling is when you sacrifice your ego and your preferences to do that which is best for the goal. I was not thrilled and overjoyed
[34:48] To start poking around.
[34:49] The dark roots of the family and exposing the evils of child abuse and talking about the voluntary family, which you can get at peacefulparenting.com, because when you actually do things to promote virtue, you run up right against the spiky spears of those who do evil. And they have a say too. The enemy has his say in response. So I'm a little bit concerned when people have these vague positive aspirations and goals. They don't measure everything. They don't know whether they're progressing. And are they ruffling any feathers? Of any bad people.
[35:27] If they're not, then.
[35:28] If you're a cancer researcher, like you're working on a cure for cancer, you want to bother the cancer cells a little, right? You don't want the cancer cells to be indifferent to your cure. Otherwise, you're not really curing anything. So again, I'm not talking about this guy in particular. Maybe he's measured all of this stuff and maybe
[35:42] He's got all.
[35:43] These great plans and goals and spreadsheets and charts and all of that sort of stuff. But I have reduced by a billion and a half the numbers of assaults against children in the world. That is something I'm enormously proud of. I've got close to a billion views and downloads of what it is that I do. I've had 10,000 or more books downloaded and read, or at least downloaded a month for many years. And I've done a lot of measurable, tangible good in the world. Now, if I'd said something like, well, I want to get rid of central banking, and don't get me wrong, I would be very happy if central banking went the way of the dodo. But if I'd said, well, I've spent, because I've spent 40 years in philosophy, 20 years publicly, if I'd have said, well, I want to get rid of central banking, man, and I'd worked on it for 20 years and central banking was stronger than ever. Well, what would I say? What would I say about myself and to my audience? I'm so sorry. You keep trying to talk and I keep rambling on, please. I'll shut up and go ahead.
[36:39] No, it's fine. No, this is all insightful stuff. I mean, yeah, this is all insightful stuff. This is great. I'll just kind of close off my end on this kind of by saying that, you know, he kind of, he opens up Bronze Age mindset by explicitly saying, I do not care to convince others who are not like me. So, you know, that right there kind of seals off willingness for debate. So, I mean, it would be great to hear that would be a podcast of the ages as far as like recent, you know, post-Twitter take, post-Elon Twitter takeover anyway, as far on the philosophy front. I think listeners would reach over a thousand for that live.
[37:15] But why doesn't he want to, if he thinks he has a better view of life and what he says improves people's lives, why on earth wouldn't he want to convince people? That seems odd to me. Yeah. No.
[37:27] And to your point exactly, it is very vague. It's why I had to read the publication several times. Even now, even after several times of reading it, it's kind of one of those things where where you pick out the meat and spit out the bones, and that's kind of how I approach digesting his material. Yeah, to your point, there's a lot of vagary.
[37:49] Wait, I don't want to change people's minds, but I'm into a quasi-martial view of life. Because, you know, I mean, the Romans went around the entire world trying to change people's minds, sometimes quite forcefully. So, it sounds to me, and again, I don't want to psychologist this guy, so I don't know really much about him. But I will say that in general, when people say, I don't want to try and convince anyone, they're just nervous about rejection. Because you go out and try and change the world's mindset, particularly about morality, you will get a lot of blowback. You will get a lot of anger because people don't like to have their foundational moral assumptions questioned.
[38:31] I mean, it would be kind of like if you went to someone and you were able to talk them into experiencing auditory and visual hallucinations, like I was just talking about in a show recently, the singer-songwriter from The Beach Boy, Brian Wilson, how he suffered for decades with terrifying audio hallucinations, like voices telling him he was a piece of crap, that he should die, they were coming to get him, they were going to kill him. And this all happened. He had a very verbally abusive father, and then he did drugs, and this just seemed to open this portal up to a kind of half-waking dream. Like we hear voices when we're dreaming. And one of the things that drugs do is they dissolve, particularly mind-altering drugs and hallucinatory drugs, they reduce the barrier between waking life and dreams. And then your dreams can spill over into your waking life through the portal or the ragged scar left by the torpedo of drugs going through your delicate mind, which is why I've never touched any drugs. I've never done marijuana or any drugs because the last thing, I mean, I have a very fertile imagination. I spent half my life as an artist and a novelist and playwright and so on.
[39:39] And so the last thing I'd want to do is open up some unclosable portal between nightly dreams and my waking life, because that would be psychosis. Psychosis is when you hallucinate and you are in the grip of a waking dream. We know that the brain can produce as many images as it wants because it does it every night when we dream. And you absolutely want to make sure that your rational, empirical mental health in your waking life is not infected by hallucinations from your nightly life. And so
[40:13] I think it's really, really important to just maintain that division. So if someone could speak you a certain, like a curse, a spell that would give you hallucinations, they would be someone to be terrified of, that they could just put a curse on you and you would suddenly start hallucinating people crawling out of the bushes, coming to kill you or voices telling you you were a piece of crap. Or like if somebody could give you some sort of dnd type curse spell or could give you hallucinations you wouldn't like you'd be like that guy in a beautiful mind right like the mathematician you wouldn't know what was real or not you'd have to keep asking people well do you see that zombie crawling towards me or not right so that would be terrifying and when you start messing with people's sense of morality and i don't mean this necessarily in a negative way it certainly can be done in a negative way when people tempt you with relativism and subjectivism and hedonism and so on, then they're rewriting your moral code or rather dissolving your moral code, which is even more dangerous in many ways than dissolving your sense of empirical or sensual reality. But when I say to people, the non-aggression principle is not only valid, but true and moral in how we teach our children, right? Don't hit, don't steal, don't push, don't yell, don't be mean. We deal with the non-aggression principle of the children. And much like when we went from Newtonian physics to Einsteinian physics,
[41:40] People's sense of reality got messed up.
[41:42] I'm sure that most people here, when you've read, probably when you were much younger, about the theory of relativity, that the speed of light is constant, that time dilates as you go faster and faster, like all kinds of weird and freaky stuff, it messes with your head. And that's fine. It's like quantum physics does that as well, although quantum physics has nothing to do with morality because quantum factors all cancel each other out long before you get to the realm
[42:05] Of sense data.
[42:06] So it messes with your sense of and progress when you have a central simple principle. You know, when you have a central simple principle such as the right of self-ownership, then you end slavery. And then everybody who participated in slavery wakes up to the fact that they were moral monsters who owned human beings like livestock and raped and abused and tortured them on a regular basis and that they were actually stone evil. And people don't like waking up to the fact that they might be evil. You know, that funny meme with the fat German soldier from World War II, like, are we the baddies? Nobody wants to go through that. And so when you start making real moral cases from first principles, okay, let's just say the non-aggression principle and property rights, which is what we teach our children, let's say that that's valid everywhere. Well, that rolls through like a tsunami through the mental constructs of her mind and completely reshapes and rewrites reality. In the same way that when you assume that certain physical properties are constant, that it just goes through and messes up with your whole mind and your whole life and all of that. I mean, when people thought that the Earth was the center of the universe, it was a whole lot easier to believe in various deities. When people understand that the Earth is not even close to the center of the universe, that there is in fact no center of the universe, and that we are one of countless planets around 100 billion suns in 100 billion galaxies, it messes with your head.
[43:29] And so when people don't have, say, well, I don't want to change anyone's minds about what I perceive to be the good. I'm like, okay, you don't want blowback and you're afraid of rejection, but there would be no other reason. It'd be like opening up a restaurant and saying, well, I don't want people to come. It's like, well, why the hell are you opening up a restaurant? Anyway, so again, he's certainly welcome. I'm not talking about this guy in particular who I don't know much about, but he's certainly welcome to come in and tell me how I'm wrong. And you say he doesn't do debates, which is not very Roman of him, but he's certainly certainly welcome. And I'd love to hear, I mean, I'm always fascinated by the sort of physical health side of things. I think it's very interesting. But for me, it must be subsumed to the larger and overall goal of,
[44:10] For what?
[44:12] For what?
[44:13] Yeah, yeah. To your point about morals and stuff, he's definitely not a go-to for moral frameworks. And I think he would self-admit this. Like, for example, last Christmas, he went out of his way to promote pederasty on his on his timeline which even like there came a time i had to unfollow him just because like you know stuff like this holy no
[44:32] No no tell me that's not i mean that's that's a pretty big you sure about
[44:36] Accusations yeah that's a pretty big accusation no i that no i it's on his timeline and unless he deleted the tweet it should still be there
[44:43] It was like it was like
[44:44] A soft promotion of it and he did it on christmas day you know and i i you know i left probably a moral
[44:50] Nihilist and just
[44:51] Yeah, exactly.
[44:52] I think that's more in line. If the guy promoting, I don't even like the word, obviously, that's fine, but for the guy promoting this to say that I'm wrong, I consider a bad job. All right. Is there anything else you wanted to mention?
[45:04] No, that's it. Thanks for all your thoughts on that. And I just wanted to bounce some of this stuff off you because his presence on Twitter has also kind of allowed for the crop up of a lot of other kind of one or two other what I view as pseudo-intellectual philosophers. And you know and i see i see people gravitate to these people because there's like there's like a dearth or a or i guess a chasm of of availability for like you know quality substitutes on
[45:33] Okay well i appreciate that let me uh move on to appreciate the goal and i appreciate to patriot pepe you have something on your mind don't forget to unmute i'm olio is my friend how can i help stefan i just want to welcome you back man thank you very much i appreciate it i I miss everyone here. I always loved Twitter, now X, and I'm glad to be XX. So go ahead. I'm a bit of a smaller account. I just want to heap high praise. I want to be brief because I know that you're an important person. But you're one of the first people that red-filled me on slavery. Story of your enslavement. I loved it.
[46:11] Oh, I appreciate that.
[46:12] And for those of you who don't know, the story for enslavement is a short video that I did many years ago that came out of an idle thought that occurred to me while looking at a map. What had happened was, if I remember rightly, I had been flying in an airplane. Sorry, that's a bit redundant. I wasn't flying on LSD or on the back of a unicorn. So I was flying over farmer's fields and you see them all, of course, in squares. And sometimes they're a little bit ragged if there's like a copse or a river or a pond or something like that. So I happened to land from the plane looking at these farmer's fields and then there was a map of the world up in the terminal and I'm like oh so the farmer's fields are largely for livestock if it's not just crops right the farmer's fields are for livestock it really does look like it really does look like the world and so I had the conception of the world as a series of tax farms and that slavery has changed insofar as the problem with slavery is slaves are unproductive because they're unmotivated. But if you are allowed to choose your own occupation and profession, then you become much more productive because you have the illusion of self-direction. And in fact, now we keep less of our earnings than even slaves in the antebellum South and slaves in the Roman times, Greek times. So slaves in the antebellum South, which is nothing to justify slavery, which is foundational human evil, but slaves got to keep 80% of their earnings.
[47:37] In other words, the food, the shelter, the healthcare, the clothing, the money that they got was 80% of their productivity.
[47:45] In other words, they were taxed. I mean, they were not allowed to leave to change and they were bought and sold in inhuman ways, but they got to keep 80% of the fruits of their labor.
[47:54] They were taxed at a rate of 20%.
[47:57] Now, it's pretty hard to find any place in the West where even the most adroit and honorable accountants, you can get to 20%. But if you choose your own job, you have the illusion of freedom, which makes you more productive. And then being more productive, you generate more wealth for your masters. And so slavery has gone from pure slavery to serfdom to capitalism, which is modern crony capitalism which is this fairly unholy and unstable mixture of government power and private incentives so yeah it's a very it's a very good video it was a very big video and it was one of my first videos to be censored it was age restricted right which is nonsense and then eventually suppressed and then of course i was banned entirely i'm still waiting on youtube it's been a couple of days where i've got well over 300 000 views on the tweet saying come on line, give me my channel back. Even if it's read-only. If it's read-only, I don't even care to broadcast there. I want, in particular, the comments, which were a whole series of fantastic debates that future people will be very interested in. So yeah, that's the story of your enslavement, and it's a very good video. I'll post it on X.
[49:07] Some of your comments that I really appreciated,
[49:12] I watched your call-in shows all the time.
[49:14] You had conversations with strippers, and it was hilarious and very informative. There was a comment that you said some years ago going back to libertarianism and philosophy because I do know that you're an atheist and I've
[49:27] Followed you for a very long time.
[49:29] I really appreciate that you said that you would rather live in a world full of Christians than atheists because with atheists you don't know what you're getting. I would say that of the people I know, I see more honor and virtue among the Christians than the atheists. And the problem with atheism is that it tends to be a rebellion against not God, but rules.
[49:56] Not a deity, not Jesus.
[49:59] But morals and ethics. And this is why the guy I debated with yesterday on Twitter was so fascinating. In that he's just this rank, nature, red and tooth and claw, evolutionary barbarian. It is barbaric to say that evolution is the essence of morals. Evolution relies on violations of the non-aggression principle. I mean, we don't hunt deer with their participation. A lion doesn't eat a zebra with its enthusiastic praise. So nature, red and tooth and claw, is all about violations of the non-aggression principle and lying right nature is about fraud hey i'm not i'm not a tiger i'm just tall grass hey this this cuckoo egg i laid in your nest is actually one of your own kids it's all deception and and fraud and and all of that hey i'm i'm a chameleon i'm this i'm not a chameleon i'm just a background leaf let me change color so it's all about fraud and deception and violence and and you know there's nothing wrong with nature and the inappropriate terms to use with animals, but the idea that you get anything moral out of evolution is repulsive, a repulsive notion. So I respect people who subject their own egos, because we all have this greedy, apparacious ego, right? We've got this lizard brain, this monkey brain, and we've got this post-monkey beta expansion pack called humanity that's buggy as hell, needs a whole bunch of rewiring and fixing, which is the job of moral philosophy. So
[51:24] I really respect people who subject their own animal egos and preferences and hedonism to objective rules and restraints. And I don't see a lot of that at all in atheists. So, sorry, go ahead. Well, I'm a returning Catholic. I was an atheist when I was watching your show,
[51:41] So I've had my own journey.
[51:43] One of your call-in shows specifically that I remember,
[51:47] Years ago I laughed so hard.
[51:49] You were debating an elderly Catholic. And I was an atheist at the time. I was baptized in the church and he was making all this noise, like glasses moving around. And you said, if you could get out of the washing machine, that'd be great. And he was like, what? No, I'm in the kitchen. If you can get out of the washing machine, because it was bugging your ear. And I thought it was hilarious. Oh, I mean, that's one of my pet fetishes is, or pet background noise just drives me crazy. Just drives me crazy because it's so much, it's so much work in post-production, right? So, and I generally do that work. So
[52:21] Do you still
[52:23] Talk to Alex Jones or I haven't talked to Alex Jones in, in quite some time. Of course, he and I did some shows together back in the day, but I mean, he's a politics guy and I'm not really doing politics. So I wish him well, but I have not, uh, I have not been in quite a long time. Just a quick, quick last question for you, because I mean, you,
[52:42] You basically made me into a conservative or you were one of the first people that did.
[52:47] But I remember almost to the day when you got banned on YouTube I couldn't even type your name in I mean I was on
[52:54] YouTube all the
[52:55] Time are you on Rumble now or like I've been I think about
[52:59] You off and on because
[53:00] I know you have your daughter and your wife does her own thing and I thought I heard that you were on Bitchute and I really don't like Bitchute sorry I don't want to answer if you're still in the middle of your question no no no I just wanted to know what platforms are you on sure sure so So, I mean, just very briefly, I mean, you can go to freedomain.com slash connect for the full set, but a good place is to find me, freedomain.locals.com and also subscribe to www.straddle.com slash freedomain and Rumble, of course, Big Shoot, Brighteon and TikTok, although those are mostly for shorts. So, yeah, and Facebook, but I'm pretty heavily Your call-in shows are really, really great. Almost, pretty much,
[53:44] I think all the
[53:44] Call-in shows you do, And it's almost without fail. If it's a stripper or if it's an elderly gentleman like the Catholic elderly gentleman you were talking to or the guy that you talked to who was smoking weed, and
[53:59] There was another guy that you talked
[54:00] To that was researching aliens and you said, well, what good does that do to the world? The premise you always start with,
[54:06] You always go back to their childhood all the time.
[54:10] Yeah, the child is the father of the man. Sorry, go ahead. I'll probably be watching you on Rumble.
[54:15] I watch a lot of stuff on Rumble, so Rumble is good.
[54:19] Well, and, you know, the other thing, too, is people say I'm hard to find. Like, you have to sacrifice three albino hairless monkeys in order to gain entry to the portal of Stephhead. But, honestly, just FDRpodcast.com, you can just copy a feed, paste it into your podcatcher, and you'll just get new shows downloaded to your phone or your tablet or your computer, like you won't even need to think about it. They'll just show up like magic. And those are just audio, but, you know, audio is more important than video. Well, listen, I really congratulate you on your wild journey.
[54:50] And I appreciate where you are. And I certainly do appreciate your kind words. And I certainly wish you the very best going forward and love to chat again sometime. God bless you, Stefan. Good luck to your daughter and your wife. I really appreciate what you do, man. I appreciate that. All right. We have no bile. Wait, cubed? Watered? You've got to unmute, I think, and I'm all yes, if you have something to share.
[55:15] Yes, hello. Can you hear me okay?
[55:17] Yes, sir. Awesome.
[55:19] Okay. So, yeah, firstly, yeah, that's great, great, great. Last person, sorry, I didn't get your name, but the last person, it's, yeah, welcome back. That's so great to have you back. So, yeah, so what's on my mind? Well, what you just said, the child is the father of the man. And I was wondering if you would like to explain more on that or that kind of like, you know, it was like, whoa, like that's really a really good quote. So I was wondering if you could just kind of expound on that, if that's okay.
[55:47] Sure. It's not my quote, just to be clear. That's a quote from Wordsworth. I think it is.
[55:52] Yeah. Okay. Yeah. No, I'm sorry.
[55:54] I just want to be clear and, you know, give credit where credit is due. So I'm not causing, I'm not saying you've got anything wrong. I'm just saying I want to be clear that I just, that was a quote. So, the child is the father of the man, which means first impressions count for most things in life. And the older you get, the more you realize that first impressions are usually correct.
[56:15] And this is why, of course, people who don't like philosophy or hate what I do, they try to give people a first impression of me, not through quoting me, but rather describing me in the most horrible negative terms, blah, blah, blah, because they're trying to precondition people to have a negative experience of me before they actually experience what it is that I do and say. So first impressions count for everything. And over the course of my life, I really can't think of a time when my first impressions turned out to be wildly incorrect. So if I meet someone and they seem very shy, I never find out later that they're not at all shy, that they're very outgoing or whatever, right? Or the other way around. Now, it could be, of course, that people have a really bad headache or they're sick or whatever I'm talking about, without any confounding factors. So if somebody is really funny, I don't find out later that they're not actually funny at all. If somebody makes terrible jokes, I don't later find out that they're, you know, you get the sort of idea. If somebody has really bad posture, you know, they sort of, bad grooming, they stoop down, they won't look in the eye, they don't have any particular social graces, you know. Well, they've had a bad childhood.
[57:26] Because you should go out into the world if you have healthy and happy and moral parents, go out into the world with a reasonable sense of benevolence and caution, look people in the eye, firm handshake, good posture, and so on, right? And it's sort of like if you see, you know, there's this old sort of meme joke about how nature shows you who the poisonous and dangerous creatures are by making them brightly colored. And then there's a picture of some bluehead hyper-liberal female, right? And so, say, morbidly obese and weird face piercings, tattoos, and hair colors not found in nature at all, you don't sit there and say, I'm sure that's a conservative church-going Christian. You would not be incorrect in these kinds of assumptions. And you could even say 99 times out of 100. For me, it's 100%. I don't even bother looking for exceptions anymore. It's just not worth it because looking for exceptions is like trying to retire by playing the lottery. It's just not worth it so
[58:26] Yeah can i can i add to that because i completely agree with the absolution in that in that uh generality that you just expressed so that's okay too too okay
[58:34] So it's a combo i'm happy
[58:36] To hear yeah okay awesome yeah so i actually went to a catholic church actually i just went to a catholic church today the same one it was like three weeks ago or so i went there and i was just looking like i didn't know where to find help like with you know just like you know improving my like behavioral moral qualities not like the abstractions and stuff like what to do next and complete i don't need i don't want to i know this is public i mean i'm sure they don't mind but it's just you know i was completely surprised like i went there thinking you know like oh they're just going to tell me because they were older like you know when you go to like a church with older people it's like okay they're just gonna maybe uh sing a few or say a few kind words and be on with it and that's pretty much what i anticipated but they gave me they gave me a bunch of books and one of the books was very very helpful but on my way out after we were sent you know we kind of we will exchange we exchanged words and you know we kind of like talked and stuff but on on the way out completely to my surprise i never expected this never wanted this like like i didn't say okay this is what i want but they gave me like more money than anyone has ever not just money but just like even just the kindness and a hug actually i think the hug was probably the biggest sort of, you know, breaking the sort of that part of that dysfunctional part some of us have that tell us, you know, those negative things. So it's just...
[59:56] It was just such a bafflingly, surprisingly, excitingly great experience.
[1:00:01] And so I just want to kind of dovetail with what you were saying. Like, yeah, if you see someone like going to it, like whatever Catholic or whatever denomination, I guess you could say, I agree. Like if you see like the purple hair, the short hair, very boyish haircuts with, you know, like weird piercings, whatever. Then I would say, yeah, no, don't waste your time because I went to a church where I could tell that wasn't what was going on. I mean, of course, you know, I don't want to go other places with that. But no, the positive part was that I didn't know where to go. I didn't know where to turn. And the woman that helped me at the end, she was very, very helpful. Her words were very endearing to me. And it gave me the breath and energy to continue in just, you know, my own sort of entrepreneurship, etc. For the next like three or some odd weeks. So, yeah. So, no, like I just wanted to sort of collaborate with what you're saying, if that makes sense.
[1:00:51] I hope that helps. Yeah, and the fact that you got kindness from older people is interesting because, I mean, I have a lot of criticisms of the boomers, and I think those criticisms obviously are pretty valid, but the boomers grew up in a fairly benevolent universe. The boomers grew up in a very high-trust society. Now, their perceptions of the benevolent universe and the high-trust society are no longer relevant to the world that, unfortunately, they help bring into being, but nonetheless, you can get a lot of kindness out of them because they're used to high-trust and reciprocity and all of that kind of stuff. So it's very nice to see, but they are, of course, allergic to facts and reality in a way that is very profound and probably hasn't been seen since the late days of the pre-Reformation Christendom. So, all right.
[1:01:37] So one last question, please.
[1:01:39] Yes, sir.
[1:01:40] Okay. What is, if you have like decent social skills, what is the way to improve on your social skills? I can tell you what I've been doing or you can just go on. I'm not really sure you want to approach it.
[1:01:54] Well, if what you have been doing works, then you don't need any of my advice. So I assume you need advice on how to further your skills.
[1:02:01] Correct.
[1:02:02] So the most powerful interaction, this is not even my opinion. This has been mathematically modeled to kingdom come and back. The most powerful approach to people in the world is the following. Write this down. You can carve it on the back of your binder if you want, right? So treat people the best you can the first time you meet them after that treat them as they treat you i'm going to repeat this because it's really really important this has been a foundational i didn't even invent this i learned this from i had this like crazy genius roommate in college and he ended up getting two phds just an absolutely brilliant guy and he was studying this sort of stuff in the prisoner's dilemma in biology and so on the best most productive way to approach the world treat people the best you can when you first meet them after that treat them as they treat you and you can see me doing this on twitter all the time right well not all the time because it's only been a couple of days but you know what i mean right so people you know hey i'm going to give you this positive thing i'm going to give you this friendly thing and thank you so much and very polite. And then if I turn rancid, I'll just turn, you know, I don't have higher standards than the interaction. I'll bring the highest standards possible to the first interaction after that. Morality is not a set of abstract commandments that program you. Morality is a relationship.
[1:03:26] I don't take someone's bike unless they took my bike, then I'll take my bike back. I don't have to respect their quote ownership if they didn't respect mine. If somebody cheats me, I feel no compunction to be honorable with them. If somebody lies to me, I no longer have to tell the truth to them, again, after a certain amount of negotiation and so on.
[1:03:46] So when you meet people, friendly, positive, happy, assume the very best. A lot of people don't have any particular identity of their own. They raise or lower themselves according to the expectations of those around. This is also a very well-studied phenomenon. So if you treat people as you have the benevolent universe, people are generally nice. And I find that in person, people are very nice, very positive, very helpful. And I mean, there's a few exceptions, but they're very rare. It's only a few percentage points that people in society or sort of sociopathic or no-conscious or narcissistic maybe. Certainly, well, there's a woman on Twitter who's well worth following. Her name is Dr. Karen Mitchell, and she's doing a lot of research on dark triad personalities. And her argument is that they're much more common because researchers, and I'm sorry, Dr. Mitchell, if I get anything wrong, please correct me. But I think her argument is something like, well, these sort of sociopaths and so on have been studied in prisons, but not in the general population.
[1:04:48] So it's very much a subset of the general population, and she thinks that their prevalence is much higher, which would be interesting. But I have found that when you approach people in a positive and friendly manner, they tend to respond in kind. If you approach them in a hostile manner, they don't have any independent standards outside of what you bring to the table. So if you approach someone with hostility, they'll be hostile. If you approach someone with friendliness, they will be friendly. I remember when Lauren Southern and I were touring Australia and New Zealand back in 2018, I think it was, and there were a bunch of extreme leftists who were very angry about the fact that we were allowed to speak. And they won in New Zealand, which was really quite tragic for New Zealand as a whole, not because of us in particular, but because the violence won out of a free speech, which was not good. But we, Lauren and I, it was raining, and there was a gathering of semi-bedraggled hair dye running down the back of their neck leftists, and we brought them out a bunch of umbrellas and had a good chat with them and listened to their complaints. And it was not hostile. They were quite startled.
[1:06:04] And so, if you want to have better social skills, the first thing to do is to say, most people do not have, this is a great secret, which I'm telling you now, most people do not have any independent standards of behavior. In other words, if you come at them in a hostile manner, they will simply return your hostility with hostility.
[1:06:24] Very few people have standards of behavior outside of the stimulus that they're receiving. So if you approach people in a positive and friendly manner, I'm telling you, everyone, everyone. I mean, I remember being at a restaurant and the waiter knew who I was and didn't like who I was or what I said or whatever it is, right?
[1:06:47] And so I said, but tell me what you dislike. I mean, I'm happy to hear it. I dislike this. I dislike that. I just like, okay, have you heard me say that, right? There was somebody the other day who was like, oh, Steph, you're telling people to leave their families. I'm like, quote it. I mean, I don't ever remember saying that. And if I have, I certainly would apologize because I don't tell people what to do as a whole because it's important to have free will and to be responsible for your own decisions. So there's no point in me telling people what to do. That would be against my entire philosophy. I can give people principles and they can decide for themselves. So the question is, did he dislike me or did he did he dislike what people have said about me and because he didn't even know me right he only knew what other people had said about me so he disliked what other people had said about me and i didn't take it personally so you know we had a conversation and i won't say we parted as friends but i'm even though he approached me with some hostility i will treat people even who are hostile towards me the best I can the first time I meet them. Now, if we went back and he was hostile again, even after we'd reached some sort of understanding, then I would feel no need to be positive towards him anymore. But we have fewer social skills because we're afraid and we're afraid because we feel powerless. But almost always, people's responses to you are shaped by how you approach them.
[1:08:16] If you understand that, you will never feel helpless in a social situation. I've had people in my face yelling at me. I listen, I'm firm, I stand tall, I push back when necessary, and it's disarming. Now, I'm not talking about if somebody's running at you with a knife, stabby stab style, then that's not a situation we're going to encounter. So social skills are about recognizing that people will respond to you in the manner in which you approach them. And if you approach people fearfully, they will tend to be aggressive.
[1:08:53] Because if you approach people like you're really nervous at them, you're scared of them and so on, then they will tend to be aggressive because fear evokes aggression in people. Now, again, there will be a few people who will have a standard behavior independent of how they are approached, but that's very few. So the problem is social anxiety, and not that I'm saying you have it, right? But social anxiety tends to breed indifference or hostility because people don't want to be around anxious people or they get annoyed by anxious people. So it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Oh, people are going to be annoyed by me and going to reject me, so I'm really scared of them. So I'm going to approach them anyway, but really self-effacing and nervous. And, oh, look at that. People are annoyed by me and don't want to reject me. But that's how you approach them. If you approach them, clear-eyed, positive, good posture, firm handshake, eye contact, friendly, positive, looking for the best in people, they will almost always deliver. And you'd be amazed at just how much power you have in society in the manner in which you approach people in the first place.
[1:09:52] Does that help at all? I don't know.
[1:09:54] That helps a ton and just to before I head out I don't want to take up too much time but you in particular the fact that you're here that you're back that you fought and everyone else who I mean whatever I'm sure there's some behind the scenes and stuff but I'm just glad that you're back I'm glad you know no I
[1:10:11] Know what you're referring to and no there really wasn't any behind the scenes what you saw we don't have to get into details I know what you're referring to what you saw was what was but anyway sorry finish your thought please Thank you.
[1:10:24] Yeah, I mean, praise, I just wanted to publicly praise you because it's, it's, you're not an embarrassment. And that's the thing that they kind of got away with, with, you know, banning you on so many platforms, again, not to be negative. I'm just saying, I just wanted to come out and say, like, just to have the more, just, you know, utmost integrity of myself and my conscience is that I have been supporting you publicly for a while, not on the internet, but also on the internet. And yeah, so now the fact that you're back, it just, it makes some of us who have been in it for the long game, just, it feels so sweet. Like, like some of us had real, like just a really good time the last few days, you know what I mean? So yeah, so I know
[1:11:03] I'm back and I don't suck, which is a plus, like maybe I've got to be rusty over five years or something like that. So I'm back and doing, doing you proud, I hope. Cause you know, I'm all, absolutely yours and fans of philosophy and so on. so I'm always kind of conscious
[1:11:16] That I need.
[1:11:17] To do a good job. And I will say this, and listen, your kind words mean the world to me, brother. I really do thank you for them. But as far as the trials of philosophers over the centuries, mine is nothing. I mean, honestly, deplatforming compared to Plato, Socrates, Aristotle, Galileo, you name it. I've done a whole history of philosopher series. So what were the travails that I have had to go through as a philosopher who's touching just about every third rail in life where I'm known to man, God, and Satan, the trials or travails that I've had to go through are nothing. And so I appreciate that. I have that sort of historical perspective, so I appreciate that. All right. Thank you for your kind words. Mr. David, you have something on your mind. Let us unburden it together. But you will need to unmute. And you can't be a mime. No miming on the audio spaces on X.
[1:12:11] All right.
[1:12:12] I think we may have He may be AFK, away from knowledge. Monsieur Dennis. Dennis the Menace, what is on your mind, my friend?
[1:12:21] Or are we.
[1:12:21] Two for two with people who are either speaking while muted or not speaking at all? I can't do hand puppets. Maybe with video. I could decipher them. I don't do lip reading on audio only. Going once. Going twice. Nate. You are caller number eight. Okay.
[1:12:40] Hello how you doing hey.
[1:12:41] Good hey uh first time talking to you and i'll be really quick with this but i just wanted to say thanks to you and and your show and everything i met a great girl in 2016 we got married in 2019 we've got a four-year-old and one on the way and life is really good so i wanted to appreciate share my appreciation congratulations
[1:12:58] I'm beyond thrilled philosophy can give thoughts wings but when it gives human beings life it is the greatest thing of all so thank you yeah
[1:13:06] And being able to like notice the red flags and everything it really helps so that's great i a few days a couple days ago i guess you were talking with someone and i i it
[1:13:15] Just i was in.
[1:13:16] The audience and it was how do you teach a three-year-old philosophy and we're we're a pretty secular family so we're not scaring our kid with heaven and hell or anything like that but i was thinking to myself how are we doing that and really i think the best way is just by example. So far, hypocrisy is something that we try to avoid because I think kids can really pick up on that. She's going to start Montessori school here in a few months. We've been keeping her at home until then, but we still have a lot of friends and everything. I'm a little bit nervous about how she's going to interact with other kids because I don't know how other parents are doing things. I guess my question is, you're a dad, you're a girl dad. I hope Izzy's doing great, by the way.
[1:14:05] No, she is, yeah. Awesome.
[1:14:07] And I don't know, any advice for this stage in sort of, I don't know, if she comes home sad or anything like that? I don't know. I was just looking for any advice going into this next phase, kind of. Because she's a great kid at home.
[1:14:21] She's four, is that right?
[1:14:22] Yeah, she'll be four and a half in August,
[1:14:24] Yeah. And this isn't a critical question at all. It's just a curious question. Why do you want to put her in Montessori?
[1:14:32] Yeah, so the main reason is my wife and I don't have any family to help us where we're at.
[1:14:36] Unfortunately. She's, her parents and my parents are both pretty far away. And we, when we have our second kiddo, we just think it'll be a little bit too much. So I work remotely.
[1:14:47] Sorry, sorry to interrupt. My apologies to interrupt. Why haven't your parents moved to be with their grandparents? Oh my God.
[1:14:53] I told my dad, I'll tell you. I told my dad and my mom that I would help subsidize any apartments nearby or anything like that. And they are just strictly tied to the Midwest, like poor heroin, like town that my family is like originally from that I escaped from.
[1:15:12] And yeah, it's a neighborhood of junkies over their precious grandchildren.
[1:15:17] I know I say the same thing. I say the same thing to my mom. My mom's actually visiting now. I fly them out whenever I can. But yeah.
[1:15:24] Fly them out?
[1:15:25] I do fly them out whenever I can. Where's their money?
[1:15:29] So my mom is.
[1:15:31] Both my parents are retired on Social Security. They did not save very well. I was fortunate enough to do.
[1:15:38] What did they spend their money on?
[1:15:40] Us, kids, my little brother, me.
[1:15:43] Okay, so that's not so bad. It wasn't like they were foolish spenders with a house full of emits.
[1:15:47] No, they sacrificed everything. And now it's like, at least for me, my little brother is struggling a little bit more than I am. But I was fortunate enough to get into Bitcoin early and everything's like okay for us. And I have a good engineering job here at home. But yeah, no, I offered, like, I could afford, like, a one-bedroom apartment, nice, you know, for my parents. And they love coming down as much as they can. My dad's retired. My mom just recently retired.
[1:16:13] So what is, is it a big, wonderful social circuit in the junky needle street landscape of their environment? What is it that's keeping them in the ground with their grandchildren?
[1:16:25] Well, so for my mom, it's extended family. Like she can't leave until her her parents pass like that's how she feels like she wants to be with her parents wow and and my dad he is tied to this terrible land like property that he keeps saying oh i'm gonna sell it i'm gonna sell it i'm gonna sell it and he never sells it and he sold a little bit of it and bought some bitcoin which i was appreciative about that about a few years ago but he's still just like tied to to his environment there and he's like i'm going to auction all my stuff he's like dad no one wants your rusty old tools and stuff he's he's just like very like tied into like this old world and it's something i would
[1:17:12] Go and live under a bridge to be around grandchildren i don't yeah i don't understand why there's a higher priority it's like a boomer thing or something but i don't understand why there's a higher
[1:17:21] Priority than your
[1:17:22] Absolute freaking bloodline like why is there a higher priority i don't i don't get it and my
[1:17:27] And my and my daughter loves them every time they visit she cries when they leave it's like and they're great and i'm just and my mom like it's my mom's right
[1:17:35] Now your daughter experiences your parents as rejecting her because she doesn't understand all of these other considerations right all she knows is there are people who care about her who are almost never around and who could be So she experiences that, in my humble opinion. I think she experiences that unconsciously, probably, as a rejection.
[1:17:57] I mean, I could definitely understand that we, I mean, the only thing I could say to like soften the blow of that is that we have the magic of video chat, right? But it's not the same. It's nowhere close to the same.
[1:18:09] It's hard to explain why people don't place your kids in a reasonably high priority. Now you say your mom is visiting. So obviously that's, that's important, but it's, I certainly want my, I want my daughter. And of course I want my future grandchildren to know that. Yeah. my bloodline is my highest priority and not just in terms of genetics or blood but you know values and virtues and i i obviously you know i see i see kids around babies and toddlers and that that phase was so fantastic uh more than father than the baby phase for me i just i can't wait to experience that again and like what else am i what else is more important than than family and your bloodline and and your grandkids and i i mean now for your parents they're taking care of they're aging parents that certainly is a consideration and i don't want to sort of just brush past that like that ain't no thing but that is you know they can be with the grandchildren and then be available for emergencies with the with their parents but and anyway so yeah that's why your your daughter's going into montessori how long have you lived in your current neighborhood uh
[1:19:13] Four four years so i guess long story short on that we i'm just gonna tell you so like my family's from Ohio and I currently live in Texas. I like the freedom. I like the no state income tax. I like owning firearms, you know? So this is kind of where we decided to move and we don't like snow. So, I mean, yeah, was
[1:19:35] Like the trade-offs i.
[1:19:36] Guess when my my wife and i got married when i was living in florida actually but
[1:19:41] How long have you lived in your current neighborhood so
[1:19:45] Four years sorry
[1:19:45] Okay and what have you done and i know this sounds like interrogatory like what the hell have you done i don't mean it that way like what have you done in terms of trying to establish a support system and you know people who can help you with your kids and you can help them with their kids in your current neighborhood.
[1:20:01] Yeah, we're actually, I think, doing pretty well on that front. My wife started a meetup when we first moved here called Mommy and Me for the neighborhood. We made a lot of friends that way, including a couple homeschool families also. And we're kind of tied... We've been... Before we decided... We were kind of going to be one and done, but we just decided that we were just going to go for another one. And it was going to be homeschool only with just her. And, yeah, so we do have, I would say, quite a decent network here in our suburb here in North Houston, though. Okay, got it.
[1:20:40] So, with regards to other kids, if you raise your children peacefully, there's two layers that your kids are going to experience with other kids. One is the layer of fun running around like mad creatures you know playing tag playing grounders and just the spontaneous cartwheel fun stuff that most kids except for the most traumatized can do at the surface level and and that's important for your kids to to be a part of so that at that level your daughter your kids will be fine but there's another level and that is often when you get to know families better the crazy comes out i'm down to crazy you know 10 9 8 now that's not true of everyone but it's true of a lot of people and the closer you get and the closer your kids get so when they go from playmates to friendships which is probably a couple of years down the road that's a different matter because playmates everybody's just having their hysterical panting goofy fun which is great but when your daughter starts to get friends that's when the morals of life come into play and that's when if the family is dysfunctional that's when it's going to show up is in the
[1:21:57] Friendship phase so.
[1:21:58] With regards to montessori and there'll be playtime and there'll be games and and all of that that's all going to be great and i'm sure that will be fun and and fine for the most part, but you got to keep your eye
[1:22:12] Out on what happens.
[1:22:14] When your daughter starts to get closer with other kids, then the moral nature of the family that the kid is involuntarily, of course, not their fault, part of, will start to come into play. So I wouldn't worry about the playground. I would worry about the sleepovers, if that makes sense.
[1:22:30] Yeah, I guess what I'm pulling from that is if she says, daddy, daddy, I made a friend, we want to go bowling or something, then it's kind of my prerogative and my wife's prerogative to get to know the parents.
[1:22:43] Well, it's important. It's more than a prerogative. It's essential. You know, I mean, friends can be a benevolent or toxic environment. And, you know, if there was a strange smell in a cave, you wouldn't let your kid go in and explore, right? Because it could be a rotting body. It could be a bear. It could be some noxious gas. And so you do have to vet the families of the kids that your friends might be kids might be friends with and so again the playmate stuff when they're that young it's not a particularly big thing but the moral character of friends is more important that i mean when i was a kid you know i was at the tail end of the baby boom and i could i could just go out of my little apartment flat and there were like 20 kids to play with i didn't know anything about their childhoods i mean there was usually one or two weirdo kids who were obviously having it really bad but i didn't know because we were just playing war we were building forts we were climbing trees we didn't care about each other's home life or anything like that but as i became friends with kids as i got older that sort of mattered so i say don't worry about school side of things but obviously keep track of the curriculum make sure they're not being taught anything too weird and i wouldn't worry about playmate
[1:23:51] Side of things but once your.
[1:23:52] Kids start trying to bond with friends that's when you've ought to do a pretty good scam.
[1:23:56] Well, I could probably think of some obvious red flags when that comes around. What are some not so obvious red flags that you can think of that I should keep a eye out on?
[1:24:07] I mean, unfettered internet access is a red flag. The less obvious red flags, it's not abusive parents or obviously aggressive parents or parents with drinking problems. And I'm not saying you would really know any of those people, but the less obvious ones are just neglect. So if there are kids where, you know, both the parents are working and they work sometimes nights and they just don't spend that much time with the kids, then the kids are going to kind of be in a state of nature, which is, you know, it's fine for being a playmate. But in terms of being close, being friends, the neglected kids can sometimes be the most difficult or dangerous because they don't come with bad standards. They come with no standards, which is a little bit dissolving to what it is I'm sure you're trying to work with your kids.
[1:24:53] Great. Hey, I appreciate your time, Stefan. Great talking to you. Thank you so much.
[1:24:57] Thank you, and congratulations on your peaceful parenting journey. Beautiful year. All right. Madame Katie, or is that K-T? So what's on your mind, my friend? How can I help? Going once. You might need to unmute. If you're talking, you cannot be heard.
[1:25:14] You are on.
[1:25:15] The other side of the studio door. Hello, hello. Going once, going twice.
[1:25:21] Katie.
[1:25:21] All right.
[1:25:23] David.
[1:25:24] David LeBlanc. What is on your mind, my friend?
[1:25:28] Hi, Stefan.
[1:25:29] Can you hear me? Yes, sir.
[1:25:30] Go ahead.
[1:25:31] Hi.
[1:25:32] Yeah, last time I joined it, whenever it happened, it just auto-disconnected me. It wouldn't let me talk. So just so you know, in case you're wondering why no one's not talking, that's probably why.
[1:25:42] So I guess I'll just give you my current situation that I'm in, and it might be a little bit interesting. Maybe you haven't had a lot of people talk about this before, but I'm currently 26 years old. I'm working with a large influencer with millions of YouTube subscribers, multiple channels. And I kind of just fell into this industry. And the problem I'm coming across, the order I'm getting, I've been working there for about three and a half years, is it's getting to the point where it feels that what we're creating provides no actual ethical value for the world. And if anything, feels that it's almost hurting the younger generation because our audience is mainly young kids. It's kind of like a Mr. Beast art type channel. And so what I'm kind of grappling with is I'm one of the key components in creating the zeitgeist for this system. I'm the videographer, the audio guy. I'm also becoming on-camera talent, so I'm getting exposure as well. But what I'm dealing with is just the fact that I'm coming home from work while doing something that's getting lots of views and people would say, you know, it's very cool or cutting edge or whatever it is. But I don't feel any, it almost makes me feel worse because I know that the things that we're pushing aren't actually beneficial to the audience that we have. So I don't know if that makes any sense, but...
[1:27:09] No, I mean, this is a very big question, and it's a very deep question, and I appreciate your honor and honesty in bringing it up. So if you're involved in something that you view, did you view it as neutral or negative?
[1:27:25] So at first, whenever I first joined, I actually viewed it as an amazing opportunity because I was offered money to an extent that I was getting paid the most of anyone in my family. I'm the youngest of four boys. I was getting paid more than my parents and all my brothers. And so it really has set a good financial precedent that I didn't necessarily grow up with for myself. And I'm in a relationship of three years. I have my money in order. And so the money's decent. It's nothing amazing, but it's put me in a better situation than almost everyone else in my family financially. And so that was what I was using to justify partaking in this system. But the older I'm getting, the more I'm coming to realize that this is never going to satisfy me long term. And, you know, it just feels like every time there's like this thing that gets dangled in front of my face of, oh, here you go. Like, you know, at the start, it was the money. And then it's, oh, we're going to put you on camera and you're going to gain a following that way. And, you know, it kind of feels like the stereotypical, like, oh, you know, sell your soul to the devil. And it's not definitely not that intense in my situation by any means, you know, like standard Hollywood or anything like that. But just a little bit of that is what it's starting to feel like. And so I'm 26 and the older I'm getting, the more I'm just questioning these things as something that's going to satisfy my personal ethics and morals, the older I'm getting.
[1:28:53] But you didn't answer the question.
[1:28:55] Can you reiterate the question again? I'm sorry.
[1:28:58] Is it neutral or negative?
[1:29:01] Currently, I would definitely say negative.
[1:29:04] Okay. Minus 1 to minus 10. Minus 10 being pure nihilistic Satanism, self-harm, or whatever nonsense, right? Minus 1 to minus 10, where would you put it?
[1:29:18] I would probably put it at, like, minus 2, minus 3.
[1:29:23] Okay. Right, right.
[1:29:25] Are there any positives, or is it consistently negative? In other words, is the minus 3 a bunch of maybe minus 6s and plus 3s or whatever? Where does it stand in terms of the stability of the minus 2 to minus 3?
[1:29:38] Okay.
[1:29:39] Trying to grapple everything right now.
[1:29:42] I would say...
[1:29:44] Okay, so it's minus... It could be
[1:29:45] Minus 1 to minus 4, like, oh, minus 3 or something like that. So is there variability or is it fairly consistent?
[1:29:51] Oh, I would say there's definitely some variability considering that we're doing new things constantly. It's not like it's consistent every day. It's one thing. It's just the ethics behind the things that we are filming is the
[1:30:01] Main thing that concerns me, given we have.
[1:30:04] Such a young audience. Because we're pushing things like materialism and just very soulless beliefs onto, it feels like we're pushing it onto kids. And so that's where I'm, as I'm getting older, I would say the number has grown to, you know, maybe at the start it was minus one. Now it's growing in my head to a minus three or a minus four. Does that make sense?
[1:30:27] Sure. So there's three ways in which you can harm people as a whole. The first is to distract them from good decisions regarding practical and moral life outcomes, right? So just distraction, right? Now, destruction is not terrible. All of us benefit from distraction from time to time, right? I mean, if you're concerned about something, playing a video game or watching a silly movie or whatever can be released. So distraction is not bad. But if the distraction becomes more constant for people, then they are wasting their time being distracted rather than making sort of essential good decisions. So there's distraction. And then there is harm to their practical decisions. So for instance, if you say to young women, you deserve the best, you're a 10, don't settle, right? That's sort of the big message. It's a big depopulation message, of course. But if you say to women, you're a 10, you deserve the best, never settle, that appeals to women's vanity. And women are susceptible to vanity in the same way that men are susceptible to status. So you are not harming them morally, but you are promoting bad life decisions that will harm their happiness over time.
[1:31:45] Yeah, I think that makes sense.
[1:31:47] Okay, so there is Distraction. People's practical decisions and the third one is harming people's moral decisions so if you say to women not you retain you deserve the best never settle but if you say uh sleep around right this is sort of the cheryl sandbrook thing right i can just lean in things like sleep sleep around and that so just sort of for example then or or for for men if you promote hostility i mean i on twitter of course, I criticize women, but I criticize women because I want the best for them, just as people criticize me because they want to improve what it is that I say and do. So if you are harming people's morals, if you tell them you shouldn't follow any rules, and hedonism is the best, and it's really, really cool to sleep around and pursue this sort of soulless materialism and just be dominant and be a brute and all of that kind of stuff, then it's not just distraction, And you're not just harming people's material choices, you're harming their moral choices. Now, with regards to the show that you're in, where would you say that it would fall along these three possibilities of negative outcomes?
[1:33:03] I would say definitely more strictly just a distraction for children. I don't think we're necessarily, you know, there's no conversation of politics or ethics in the show.
[1:33:14] Hang on, hang on, hang on. But you did talk about the materialism thing. If you're promoting materialism that's not just a distraction okay
[1:33:20] Okay then i then i take back what i said yes the materialism is one of the main things that concerns me for sure so with that
[1:33:27] Involved how would you sorry to interrupt how would you say how would you say that the materialism is promoted because look we all are materialistic we're materialistic beings we need food air water shelter right so we need material things and we also need to have some fun and sometimes having fun involves material purchases i mean even as something as simple as a frisbee can provide you know endless hours of fun uh so how in what way is the happiness is the sorry little bit of a key there in what way is the materialism promoted what is it promising to people if they you know buy certain things or pursue
[1:34:01] Certain paths i would say it's being pushed in a way of achieving happiness but the thing is is the people i'm working with i don't think they necessarily even know how to find it themselves and it's you know a personality that people are watching. So I don't know if it's necessarily malicious. I would say it probably is, potentially. I don't really know. But it's definitely pushing the idea of money and materialism as a gateway to achieving happiness,
[1:34:29] If that makes sense.
[1:34:31] Okay. So I'm trying to think of an analogy here, and obviously don't tell me the specifics
[1:34:36] About your show.
[1:34:37] So would an analogy be something like saying to men, if you get wealthy and have abs, You'll be happy.
[1:34:46] I would say.
[1:34:46] That's definitely an idea that is being presented for sure.
[1:34:51] Would it be something like to women, if you buy this makeup and become prettier, then you'll be happy?
[1:34:59] I would say that's not being specifically said, but that's being...
[1:35:02] No, no, an analogy. It's an analogy as to how this might be working.
[1:35:06] Okay.
[1:35:07] Yes, I would say in a way,
[1:35:09] Yes, that would be true.
[1:35:10] I mean, it's wild just by the by. I remember I did this show many years ago, but it's really instructive to page through a woman's magazine from time to time for a man. It absolutely is, for the most part, entering into a foreign universe. You know, if you thumb through men's magazines, I mean, there's a little bit about grooming. There's
[1:35:32] Some stuff about music.
[1:35:34] Appreciations and electronic gadgets and so on, right? And but you thumb through women's magazines it it and this is of course not all women there's lots of women who criticize these magazines but then the women who criticize these magazines like ms magazine tend to be this sort of feminist stuff which is arguably even more toxic but it is just like i remember looking at an ad for like a full page spread on you need thicker eyelashes and that's wild to me that somebody thinks about their eyelashes right like i saw this meeting the other day it's like eyelashes are supposed to keep things out of your eyes but almost every time there's something in my eye it's an eyelash ironic anyway so just the idea that you it's important to your happiness whether your eyelashes are thicker or thinner or i find it actually find it really abrasive when women are given this sort of casual conversation about important topics while putting on their makeup. Because you know, it's totally fake. They actually don't need to be putting on their makeup. It's just a way to make it feel like some sort of weird sleepover. But so if they are promoting happiness based upon materialism to a younger audience, I think that does hollow out people quite a bit. Because you do need to have a moral purpose, But selling moral purpose is not easy now.
[1:37:01] Is there any chance, do you think, especially if you're becoming an on-air personality, is there any chance of shifting at least your portion of the conversation towards something slightly more elevated than consumption?
[1:37:17] Absolutely. And that's something I'm justifying in my own head as well, which is I need to take this route, gain this following, and then transition it into something over another five to seven years into something that is hyper meaningful and there to benefit the people, if that makes sense. But the longer I'm doing that, the more I'm thinking I just need to abandon ship and start right now. but i'm i would be putting a lot at risk at the same time you know
[1:37:47] With yeah listen i i want to tell you something that took me a long time to learn okay so one of the things that's easy to not see as a young man as a young woman is the fact that opportunities are very rare yeah so everyone who has like a successful business thinks oh well i'll just quit and start another successful business or just leave and right move on and so on and listen some people do obviously there are some people like elon musk everything he likes the midas touch and works ferociously hard and it's a completely productive genius right but for most of us opportunity is rare so if you're in a situation where things are working it's almost always better to try and improve what's working than to start something from scratch. And that doesn't mean never start something from scratch. I mean, I left my business career and started this, but it's sort of like if you find someone that you really care about and so on, but maybe she just doesn't look, she's not quite the look that you like. Well, adjust your expectations because if you've got someone you really vibe with and jive with, then it's rare and it's not going to come around every day so in in your situation i think i would work and i don't know whether you'd make this vocal or not but i
[1:39:16] Definitely work to try and bring some more elevated content into what is being produced. And you can do this in smaller ways or subtle ways. And I'm not saying be sneaky or hide anything about that, but I would test the waters first and see if you could make some improvements to the environment because you might be surprised at how difficult it is to start something from scratch rather than adjust something that's already in motion,
[1:39:41] If that makes sense.
[1:39:42] Yeah, absolutely. When I first joined, I would say that's exactly what I tried to do. And there were different videos that we put out on some of the main channels that were my ideas that I viewed as much more meaningful than the content that was
[1:39:55] Being created before.
[1:39:57] The only thing is, over time, we've got less viewership. Naturally, these YouTube channels, they go through about a five-year cycle, unless you're doing something like you're doing, which is kind of timeless.
[1:40:09] Well, it got timed out on YouTube, but yeah.
[1:40:11] Yes it did i remember but like a typical youtuber they're kind of gaming the algorithm they're gaming the system you know they're
[1:40:19] Well and that's pronoun i mean it's exhausting
[1:40:22] Exactly and that's something i also experienced just working here just because the whole environment well it's better than in my opinion the film industry because you're a lot more free and you have freedom of thought in this industry much more
[1:40:36] Than in the film industry it's a lot of time between projects. YouTube is a crazy daily grind.
[1:40:42] Exactly. Exactly. Anyway, so what I would say back to you not to drag this conversation on and we can end whenever you feel, of course, but I have been doing that. I did do that, but it's getting to the point now where over time that has slowly dissipated away given the leadership, like there's just a top down in my opinion.
[1:40:59] So they're basically saying to you, stop working on these elevated projects that get no views.
[1:41:05] Kind of. And it's that they get no views once again it's it's this it's been this timeline of how long youtubers last yes
[1:41:12] Yes yeah you.
[1:41:14] Know posting you know one dollar mansion verse 10 million dollar house is going to get a lot more general viewership than an isolation video or you know maybe something that's more introspective of uh you know that makes you sing well no i
[1:41:28] I get that but why not try to mix in a couple of decent moral messages with the one dollar house versus ten million $1 mansion versus $10, whatever you said. Why not try and mix in a couple of asides in there that could plant some seeds?
[1:41:45] Yeah, and I would say I have tried to do that in multiple of the different videos, not just the isolation or whatever it might be, but without just talking about work, it's just very much a top-down leadership problem, I would argue, at this point, working here for
[1:42:00] About four years. Right, right. Where it's kind of an echo
[1:42:05] Chamber for someone to... Agreed with 24-7, if that makes sense.
[1:42:13] And if you had to guess as to the primary motives of the people in charge, is it money, fame, influence, for the sake of influence? What is it you think that is driving them? Because, you know, if you've got a fairly successful YouTube channel, you can probably not worry about money for quite a while. So what do you think it is that's driving then?
[1:42:33] I would say definitely money and fame as an objective, like even the idea of gaming an algorithm to me, the more I've experienced doing it and also being a part of it just feels very dirty. Like it just, it feels almost just like you're attempting to manipulate people, which is what a lot of these influencers or YouTube personalities are doing. It's just gaming an algorithm and so there's a lot of that which i i find problems with and and yeah definitely fame money and i think those are the main objectives but also i would say too it's this and this is probably more prevalent in gen z in particular in my opinion it's just this level of constant narcissism that is happening all the time you know everyone is obsessed with themselves and And I think it's a replacement. Yeah, exactly. But no one really thinks about things. I mean, at least in this industry, from my experience, they're not thinking about things too much. It's just very base level, you know, get this, do this to get more view. It just feels dirty, you know? And the older I'm getting, that's why I even was going to bring this up to you because I thought you'd probably have a very interesting perspective on it.
[1:43:50] Well, you might want to read, and my novel is free. It's a novel called The God of Atheists. You can get it at freedomain.com
[1:43:55] Slash books, which.
[1:43:56] Is about corruption. Obviously, I can't tell you what to do. You know, if I were in your shoes, what I would do is I would start planning for an exit, which means to learn as much about the business and how to reproduce success as possible. I would continue to work honorably and fairly for my employers. I would try to inject as many possible messages in as possible. And then when I really couldn't take it anymore, like whatever soulless material number chasing vanity stuff might be going on, I would leave, but I would leave with as much knowledge as possible to reproduce the success in a more meaningful way.
[1:44:33] Yeah, I think that's a great, I think that's exactly kind of where I'm at right now. So I appreciate that. And I've been listening to you since I was like 16, almost 10 years. So I just want to thank you for everything you've done for me and really my whole family. We came from a pretty chaotic background, actually from Ohio as well and currently living in Texas. But we've got a theme.
[1:44:52] Well, I appreciate that. And I really, listen, your moral sensitivity and your desire to do something positive and meaningful with the short time that we all have on this planet is, intensely admirable. And I just really wanted to say how much I respect what it is that you're thinking about and what it is that you're planning with your life. It is very admirable, very noble, and you should be very proud of what you've done and what you're going to do in this world. And I really, really wanted to thank you for all of that because that makes everything I do worthwhile and it's wonderful to see.
[1:45:24] That means a ton. Thank you so much, Stefan.
[1:45:27] All right. So let's do one more. Katie came and left again. I'll give her a moment in case she's having any technical issues. You know, gender equality is key in my book, and let's get a lady on here. Going once, going, she popped back up, and then she is gone. Gone. Let's see here.
[1:45:45] Is she coming back?
[1:45:46] I do not think so. Okay, Noble. Did we talk before? Do I have a memory of this that we talked yesterday or the day before? Noble, you are on the air. On the air. Oh, Peter Gabriel gave up music. Isn't that sad? anyway are you on the air if you want to talk
[1:46:03] Yeah hey stephan hey stephan
[1:46:06] How are you yes.
[1:46:07] I thought you were recognizable what's on your mind
[1:46:09] Well it was something you there's something you've said multiple times on like live shows you know i think you even mentioned it a little bit yesterday i missed it because the audio cut out a little bit but you and i'm probably going to butcher it i'm going to go ahead and say it anyway you said something about this has to do with not letting the perfect be the enemy of the good but i think you said something in respects to not to not to when being virtuous don't do it in a like you know there has to be a you know a method or a means to where you're obviously maybe like self-immolating or you're you know you're maybe putting yourself in some form of self-harm when just like and i'm a little confused about it. I think I understand it, you know, abstractly, but like in a practical kind of way, like in a, you know, like just like, just like full disclosure, you know, a couple, you know, speakers ago, you know, someone mentioned, you know, their child going to mom's story school and things like this. And I myself am a peaceful parent. You know, my children are not quite two yet. I have twins and, you know, I'm starting to really think about these things, you know with like in regards to because i'm no longer christian
[1:47:23] But we have.
[1:47:24] Some christian friends and i've had these experiences that you've mentioned where when you start getting closer to people you start to see their unresolved childhood trauma and their lack of therapy and stuff like this and i'm you know i keep my eyes open for the you know the bitcoin society of the future which i hope hopefully i live to see but as my children mature they have each other which is wonderful because they're twins but i'm just you know i'm i'm worried about them forming like deep pair bonds with i don't want to say christians like i'm talking about the people in my life with you know people who aren't quite you know dysfunctional people yeah dysfunctional people exactly i'm worried about them forming pair bonds with that me forming you know you know pair bonds with their parents because like yourself i you know i view christian people as you know a lot of them do imbibe a lot of virtues that atheists simply do not for you know reasons you've discussed yet i also want to improve the standards of my own life you know i i you know
[1:48:22] And unfortunately, it seems like.
[1:48:24] Fortunately, it seems like Free Domain is really the only place where there's people that talk about things like this. And we're all scattered, you know, through the winds. So I'm just, you know, I'm just worried about, you know, I guess the perfect being the enemy of the good. Because, you know, my children are playing with each other. They're starting to talk. And, you know, we want to homeschool them. We want to be around other peaceful parents. But this thing is still nascent. So I don't know. Maybe I'm just rambling on. But, you know.
[1:48:51] No, no. First of all, I just want to say congratulations on the twins. That's very exciting. You must have had some sleepless nights at infinitum, but that's very cool and exciting. And it's great for them to have each other over the course of their life. So I think that's great. So your kids aren't going to form pair bonds with dysfunctional people because dysfunctional people cannot pair bond. And the reason for that is that pair bonding requires trust. Trust requires integrity, and integrity requires rational standards. You can't have integrity to random standards, any more than you can play a game where the rules keep changing, i.e. the modern economy. So your children will not pair bond with dysfunctional people because there will be no pair bonding possibilities. So I wouldn't worry as much about that.
[1:49:40] Now, you're going to have to vet people to make sure that they have some set of morally consistent behavior to be around your kids there's that now of course the other thing too is you don't want to shield your kids from dysfunctional people because your kids have to survive in a world full of dysfunctional people right right right now i'm not saying that you expose them at two to crazy people let's go to the asylum right but but do not feel that if your children are well bonded with you and love you and you love them and you raise them well you have given them immunity to madness you have given an immunity dysfunction. That doesn't mean dysfunction will never harm them or impinge upon their lives, but it will be a foreign language. The best analogy is a language. So do you speak any languages other than English?
[1:50:29] Yes, I speak some Portuguese.
[1:50:31] Okay. So let's take Japanese. So if somebody speaks to you in Japanese, you may not know exactly what language it is, but you know you don't understand it,
[1:50:42] Right? Right.
[1:50:44] And if somebody yells at you in Japanese, then you might be slightly alarmed or cautious, but you would not take it as a personal insult because you don't really know what they're saying. So when you teach your children the language of peace, reason, negotiation, and functionality, they'll go out into the world and there'll be crazy people out there.
[1:51:04] Not a few, but quite a lot.
[1:51:07] And they simply won't speak that language. Now, that doesn't mean that they shouldn't navigate it with caution and listen to people, but they won't speak the strange language of dysfunction because dysfunction is all an attempt to avoid legitimate suffering through the manipulation of others. And your children simply won't speak that language. They will be protected. It is an inoculation. Peaceful parenting is an inoculation against the dysfunction of the world. So they will run into crazy people. They will be around crazy people. They'd be around dysfunctional people, messed up people, traumatized people, and so on. And I say a lot of that with sympathy because we all have our things to work on, but they will not get drawn in. They simply won't have enough in common. It's like trying to become besties with someone where you don't speak Japanese and they don't speak English.
[1:51:56] You simply can't get that close.
[1:51:59] I mean, maybe you could play baseball with them, maybe you could play tag with them, and so on, but you can't get close because you don't speak the same language. So do not worry too much about your children being out there in the world full of crazy people when you brace them rationally because they will draw rational people to them and they will repel crazy people or irrational or anti-rational people away from them. It's just a function of psychology and compatibility deep down the dysfunctional people if they are really committed to their dysfunction in other words if it's become character logic or to put it another way if they're not a person with a problem but they are a person who is a problem they don't have a healthy personality with a problem they have an entirely dysfunctional personality structure which generally can't be fixed because you need that observing ego to even notice that something is wrong, like narcissism and all the really can't be fixed, borderline personality disorders, they can't be fixed as far as I understand it because there's not enough of an observing ego to correct behavior. Everything gets acted out and not filtered or processed.
[1:53:03] They will be around those people. They will not understand those people. Those people will actually be threatened by your children's health to the point where they'll keep a distance. So there's a self-sorting mechanism for healthy people in this world. I almost never run into dysfunctional people anymore. It's kind of a weird thing. I mean, I'm out there in the world quite a bit. I almost never run into dysfunctional people anymore. Either it's my posture or my way of talking or my eye contact or my confidence as a whole. They just steer clear and the same thing will happen with your children in the world and i wouldn't worry about it too much
[1:53:37] That's interesting that you say that's the bomb because you know it's been really hot you know where where we're living right now so we've been doing more indoor play area sort of things and it's interesting i'm you know you've answered my question because i'm noticing even like you know when it's just me and the twins or me and my wife and the twins there are you know parents that are that are like avoid me you know like they you know they avoid eye contact with me it's like it's almost like i i guess it could be my posture it could just be my general curious demeanor but i you know i experience this my wife experiences this and we are noticing this you know you know it's sad sometimes because it's like you know like i come i try to you know i always want to come in as a curious observer and make friends and stuff like that but dysfunctional people
[1:54:21] Yeah 19 to 95 of communication is nonverbal and personality structures that are incompatible naturally avoid each other and it is a strange phenomenon but it just is the way that it works i mean it's sort of like some wiry guy who walks in with a black belt and a sort of karate outfit probably isn't going to have a lot of people pick on him
[1:54:47] And so
[1:54:49] Because i mean they can they'll get beaten up in horrible spine splintering kinds of ways.
[1:54:55] And so if you look, I mean, if you look, I'm sure you've seen these maps of wolves. They put GPS on wolves and they all keep to their own territory. They all avoid each other's wolf packs and so on, right? There is a sorting mechanism in life. And you see this in cities, right? The dysfunctional people end up in certain neighborhoods. The functional people end up in other neighborhoods. They self-sort, right? I moved from a dysfunctional neighborhood to a functional neighborhood because I'm a functional person. Whereas somebody who's, from a functional neighborhood who's really chaotic and dysfunctional, maybe they got an addiction or something, they end up in the dysfunctional neighborhoods. There's a self-sorting mechanism in life, and you're giving your children one of the most powerful sorting mechanisms, which is clear-eyed and confident rationality, which keeps people very much avoidant. And you know, like messed up people, who did they end up dating?
[1:55:43] Messed up people.
[1:55:46] I mean, that is a self-sorting mechanism to life based upon how we think manifested and how we move through the world. And your kids will have a shield against the crazies and will draw the sane and rational to them simply as a process of how you're raising them. They won't even need to lift a finger. It will happen of its own accord for
[1:56:05] The most part.
[1:56:06] Thank you. You have a lot of credibility with those. You know, Isabella is older now, so this is wonderful. Thank you.
[1:56:12] All right. Well, I appreciate that. And I'm sorry for the people that we didn't get to by the next time. And I thank everyone for
[1:56:18] Dropping by today.
[1:56:19] Just to reiterate what a great pleasure it is to be back and how thrilled I am that
[1:56:24] We're having these.
[1:56:24] Wonderful conversations which massively benefit the world as a whole. And I appreciate everyone who participates. And I hope you have a wonderful day. We will talk tonight at 7 p.m. I will do a live stream, of course, just in case you cannot get enough of the big chatty forehead in one 24-hour period. Have yourself a glorious evening,
[1:56:42] Everyone.
[1:56:43] And we will talk soon. Take care. Bye-bye.
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