0:04 - Wicked Impressions
8:58 - Musical Moments
21:49 - Villain Backstories
36:20 - Character Reflections
38:09 - Final Thoughts
In this episode, we dive deep into the production of "Wicked," discussing its cinematic adaptation and the overarching themes that resonate throughout the storyline. The movie length of two hours and 40 minutes comes up early as we reflect on the pacing, noting some parts that felt slow yet acknowledging the standout elements that contributed to its entertainment value. We particularly appreciate the singing, hinting at the power of musical performances to elevate storytelling.
As we consider the characters, we contemplate the complexities of Glinda and Elphaba, with particular emphasis on their backstories. We unpack the frequent trope of portraying characters with troubled pasts, leading to a deeper examination of how Western art often depicts those born out of wedlock as inherently flawed. This opens up a larger conversation about the societal expectations and archetypes connected to familial structures and their implications on character development.
I challenge conventional wisdom regarding the influence of words versus physical actions, drawing attention to our childhood experiences with bullying and how our responses can define us. The cultural interpretation of characters, particularly women's roles in narratives, ignites a discussion on the significance of strength and vulnerability depicted in their portrayals. We ponder the trend of giving villains sympathetic backgrounds, a storytelling device that often distorts traditional moral binaries in today's media landscape.
In our critique, we address the notion of clichés, recognizing how certain tropes — such as the nerdy protagonist discovering hidden powers or the portrayal of chaotic environments during musical numbers — can alternate between feeling fresh and predictable, depending on audience familiarity. We reflect on how younger viewers may perceive these scenes differently than we do, especially given our extensive exposure to various media over the years.
We also engage in a thought-provoking discussion about the portrayal of age in cinema. Notably, we point out the perceived age gap between the characters and their corresponding actors, leading to the observation that at times, visual casting choices can lead to dissonance in character relatability. This naturally flows into a comparison between diverse narratives and the perceived authenticity of wider world-building within fantasy genres.
Through our dialogue, we touch upon political undertones manifested in character motivations and plot twists, delineating how contemporary storytelling constructs can often mirror ongoing societal debates. This includes analyzing media representations of power dynamics and the politics of dissent, as signified through the character arcs seen in "Wicked."
Ultimately, we conclude the episode with a recommendation for those who might still be undecided about watching the film. We suggest that listening to the soundtrack offers a meaningful alternative to experiencing the essence of the story, particularly focusing on memorable tunes such as "Popular." As we wrap up, we encourage listeners to engage with their own thoughts on this adaptation, considering both its artistic merits and societal implications.
[0:00] All right, so we went to go and see Wicked. Yes, sir.
[0:05] Which was very interesting. It was quite long. It was quite long. Two hours and 40 minutes. Of pain. No, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. So you didn't mind it too much, right? I found it was a bit slow at times. The singing was great. I thought the songs, and it's kind of tough to know, because sometimes if you know the songs ahead of time, they're better. I think the only one I knew was Defying Gravity. I must have heard it before, because I knew exactly what was coming. I think I heard some of those songs, I think they've been done on like singing competition shows by people. Probably. Because they have a range. So for people with a vocal range, they can sing them well. Right, right. So tell me your thoughts about the movie as a whole. Genuinely, I didn't think too much about it. It was very pleasant. I was kind of watching it. I usually find unless I hate a movie or I love a movie, I don't have much to say about it. To kind of pass this from your mind, right? Yeah. Yeah. There's a few things I thought that I probably shouldn't say, but that was about it. Things? Now I'm intrigued. No, we talked about them.
[1:11] So, I... Things that I found were odd. So, what was it? Elspeth? What was her name, the main woman? Glinda. No, Glinda was the black woman. What was her name? Elspeth or... Alfama. Alfama, okay. So Alphema was the product of an affair, right?
[1:31] So there's sort of been a long tradition that in sort of Western art, that the children who were born out of affairs are troublesome or difficult or troubled or their life is a problem. Yeah, or something's wrong with that. Right. I mean, the tactical term is a bastard, right? And there's a lot of famous in a Shakespearean play or a Shakespeare play. King Lear. Edgar is the good son who's within the marriage. Edmund is the bad son who was conceived outside of wedlock. And there's sort of this general curse upon children who are born outside of wedlock. It's sort of like the, you know, how there's like this wicked stepmother. So these would be, in a sense, a stepchildren who were unknown. So, you know, the kids who are making fun of the green woman the group i guess who turns into the witch the kids who are making fun of her she like uses her powers to lift and hurl stones at them yeah like chill girl so you know kids who are being kind of mean and taunting her and she like throws rocks at them this is the idea that words are more wounding than bullets i highly disagree yeah so when i was a kid the phrase was always the same sticks and stones might break my bones but words will never hurt me Well, and there's some truth in that. There really is some truth in that because a stick and a stone is going to break your bone, whether you believe in it or not. But in order for you to be hurt by other people's words, you have to believe that they're true.
[2:59] And so I found that not good. And that's sort of a very leftist idea that words are worse than actual violence. And I think that's because women fight with words and men fight with fists. Yeah and so more damage can be done in the female world by words whereas boys we're more concerned about getting our nose broken yeah so i thought that was interesting now you pointed out this and i didn't guess realize this sort of backstory but you were pointing out about this sort of sympathy for the villain i noticed it in around 2018 it became a really big.
[3:34] I think they might have done something for Snow White's villain, not Snow White herself, but the villain in that story. The queen, right? Yeah, the queen or the witch. I don't even know. Her backstory, I know they did. Like Maleficent started getting really big around that time. Yeah. And she was an evil queen who she had to have a backstory. Yeah. I remember just around 2018, it seemed like I kept seeing posters for this whole villain backstory trend. Right. And I think a lot of them started as Broadway shows, because as we've mentioned in some other movie reviews, people can't come up with new stories and they just have to either make sequels that don't need to be there or adaptations or remakes or in this case, I guess, backstories. Yeah, I mean, The Joker was the big one, which was a backstory. So it's not that they can't come up with new stories. Sorry to disagree. Yeah. In general, it's because movies are so crazy expensive to make in the market. If you don't have a guaranteed audience, then it's too risky. Yeah.
[4:32] So you either have to have a giant movie star. And I guess Ariana Grande is famous enough, certainly among the youngest. Oh, she's huge. Yeah, she's huge, right?
[4:39] So it's that everything's so crazy expensive that if you'd like... I remember a friend of mine who's in the music industry was saying that Ringo Starr, who's like the drummer for the Beatles, he can release an album. You'll get at least a certain amount of sales just from people who are fans of Ringo Starr and or the Beatles. If it's some new artist, you don't know if anyone's going to take to them at all. So movies are just so expensive to make and to market, like it's to advertising and all of that, that you need a certain guaranteed audience. And the best way to do that is to take some established show. I mean, the movie, The Joker, really didn't have anything to do with Batman or The Joker. It was just the movie about a violent, crazy guy. But when they say Joker, they have a guaranteed audience of people who are into comic books and Batman and so on, right? Well, I think the other thing with, I was going to say that's valid, but with giant production studios like Disney and Universal, they do already have a guaranteed audience. When Disney puts out some new movie, guaranteed watchers, unless it's Woke, like it has been recently, but.
[5:39] Usually for a while at least when disney i think this one was universal and disney i don't even know right but once there's some big movie studio place and they put out a movie for kids yeah i i think this is for kids i mean there wasn't anything i would say that wasn't really for kids right then guaranteed audience because everyone's like oh it's disney we love disney well especially if they get a famous person to be in the movie like yeah or something like some someone who kids really like, then they have that kind of guaranteed audience. Yeah. So I felt in the movie that there were a lot of cliches. Now, cliches don't mean as much to a young audience because they haven't seen it all a million times before.
[6:19] So for me, it was like the girl or the young person born with powers they cannot control that are jaw-droppingly intense and so on, right? Shocking so again if you're i don't know i mean what do you think is the bottom age that a kid could watch this movie five or six it's a bit scary at times wasn't it the only thing i can think of is when the monkey was getting his wings yeah that's a bit alarming but aside from that i don't think so right i could see myself watching this when i was young i know every kid's different some kids have higher tolerance some don't i think i had pretty high tolerance for this kind of I was very not connected. I was very disconnected from when I was very like, this is a show, nothing is real. You've always felt that. Like, and we explained that pretty early on that, you know, if there's a scene where people are getting beaten up, it's all done with makeup, the actors get up and walk away and everyone's fine. Right. So we just sort of made sure that you knew that it was just all made up. Right. Yeah. So I think as long as you do that, but like a no kid is really going to get traumatized by seeing a CGI monkey grow wings and screech, like, yes, they said it's in pain, but it's.
[7:26] So, if you're younger, then the cliches don't mean quite as much. Yeah. But, you know, the kid getting taunted and fighting back, that's sort of a cliche. The powers, obviously. The powers thing. Oh, I have these crazy powers, and how am I going to harness them? I can't control them. And so on, right? How are you going to learn how to harness your powers? That's very much a cliche. And then they did the wizard school, which is a cliche out of Harry Potter. And that felt very sort of… Although I don't want to say now that Harry Potter's done wizard school, we can never do it again. I wouldn't say that was a huge cliche. Yeah, yes, that's right. I wouldn't say that was too bad. Right. And I don't think everything was in there for wizards. The wizard school seemed kind of like it didn't really add up to much. It seemed more like a university. And I think there were different traits. Yes, I think it was a university. It was a university and there were different traits. Some people were there to be sorcerers. Other people were there to be like mechanics. So I don't, I wouldn't say that was a huge cliche. Yeah, right. Maybe like... I mean, it's hard to say what's cliche and what's, like, it's hard to be original. Like, there's, I feel like a difference. Right, right, right.
[8:32] So, the shallow, vain, pretty blonde girl who's kind of clueless about things but learns to open her heart a little bit. Again, that's kind of cliche. I kind of saw that in the film Legally Blonde. She just reminded me of Reese Witherspoon a lot in that. And again, I thought Ariana Grande played it really, really well. She did. She did. The body movements were, like. She half danced her way through the movie, which I thought really worked with the sort of shallowness of the character.
[8:58] Something I noticed was also a little unrelated, but the musical, I noticed when we watched Mean Girls musical...
[9:08] Vocally but like it what didn't come naturally right in this one i wasn't cringing thinking like oh that that wasn't the right place for a song like i think they fit the music in really well i think that's very true yeah it did feel that it felt felt like it so the general thing about singing is supposed to be something like when your emotions are so strong that only a song can get them across get them across and so i thought i thought they worked that because there was a lot of passion well it felt just like how it would go from talking and it wasn't like immediately into dancing right like they were talking and then it kind of slowly shifted into singing and then once they got a bit more into the song they started dancing like it felt, i want to i feel like real is not the right word but it didn't feel forced it didn't it didn't feel forced or fake yeah authentic's probably right yeah and i appreciate that because with a lot of musicals that are turned into movies like on broadway it's like whatever but when they're turned into movies especially it's like it just feels really forced right i thought that was i I thought that was good. I thought that the area, the Galinda.
[10:11] Galinda. I thought that was, that she was a bit too clueless, right? In other words, she takes over 95% of the giant room and then gives the green girl a little tiny corner and says, yeah, it is unfair that I even have to give up this much. I thought that made her a bit too narcissistic to believe that she could ever grow a heart or become empathetic or become a good friend or anything like that. But, you know, I get it was comic stuff. I think it was more she was just really irritated and wanted to try and get Alpha Mata and move out, is my guess. Right. So she was overdoing it. I could be wrong, but. The shift from hostility to friendship, like they loathed each other.
[10:54] And the shift from hostility to friendship to me was a little hard. It just came about because of that odd little robotic-y dance-y thing. Was that the major? I think so. it was the glinda said she felt really bad and i think the prince was like but like why like she's she's just doing it she doesn't care what people think and glinda was like every everyone cares what people think right so she went out and did the dance with her but i feel like for two hours and 40 minutes usually in movies i'll give character arcs a bit of like a little bit of what's it called i'll just be like yeah go for it if the character arcs are a little too quick because movies are usually an hour 40 it's not like some 10 season show on netflix with 40 minute episodes each right so i'll give them a little bit of like what's the word grace a little bit of forgiveness a little bit of acceptance yeah a little except whatever you suspend disbelief at the rapidity of the character arc pretty much so if it's not rapidity but like the speed yeah if it's a really fast character arc i'll be like you know what that's okay you had an hour You can do it like we'll pretend right suspension of discipline.
[12:05] When it's two hours and 40 minutes, double the length of a good chunk of movies I've watched in the past. And it's only half the story. And it's only half the story. If the character arc is that quick, I'm going to have a little less forgiveness. I don't think that's a make or break part of the movie. It's not that serious. But that's something I wanted to mention. If you have two hours and 40 minutes, I'm giving you less suspension of disbelief because you had a lot of time to get half of a story across.
[12:29] Now, there's something else. And I want to go a tiny bit in depth to this because it really does bother me. And we talked about this before. So I had an acquaintance in high school who was confined to a wheelchair. And unfortunately, he died before we graduated. But it was really tough for him. Like he couldn't do sports. He couldn't come to dances, or at least he didn't. That's a beautiful sky. Yeah, that's so pretty. So if you have a real disability, it can be pretty crushing for the personality. And in fact, even the kids I knew who had really bad acne, they were incredibly self-conscious about it. And it was really tough for them. And the kids who were in wheelchairs or the kids who were super short, maybe, or the kids who had something kind of quirky or odd. I mean, there was one friend of mine who had a lazy eye and felt very self-conscious about that because that's kind of what it is as a teenager in particular, right? Yeah, everyone judges a lot as a teenager, I think. When you're in your 20s, you don't care. About like yeah you you hopefully grow out of that over time but I mean there was a friend of mine in he started to lose his hair even before the end of high school oh no I had a bit of grace I had a bit of grace until it was like my early 20s or mid-20 I can't remember exactly when but you had to cool down but and he was very self-conscious about it he wore hats a lot I don't even blame him bro if you're like 17 and you're starting to go bald like I wouldn't judge I wouldn't be like ew but I can understand that a lot of high school.
[13:57] Or the people who had, I mean, I remember Freddie Mercury with his, he had extra teeth, right? And he was very self-conscious about that. He would cover his mouth when he smiled when he was younger. I think later on, he became more comfortable with it. But everyone's kind of crazy self-conscious about difference and negatives when you're young.
[14:15] Now, we'll get into the age of the actors, but let's just say it's right after high school. So they're like 17 or 18. They're supposed to be, right? I was thinking 18 to 22 because it's university. But most people will go to university from high school, and they didn't really talk about anything they did between high school and university. Maybe. I could see Glinda being like 18, 19. I think Alfama, we know that she's two years older than her younger wheelchair sister, who is going into university at 18 or 19, so she'd be 21, 22. Okay. But don't you graduate at 17 from high school? Yeah, but she was never going to go to university because of how she stood out. No, but in terms of her younger sister. You graduate high school, it depends, I think where you live in Canada, it could be, you could graduate at 17. I know in most places in the U S it's 18 or 19, but it's the same number of years. It's still grade 12, isn't it? No, but there's different cutoffs. So in Canada and here I'm grade 11 because my birthday is before the new year. So December 19th, if it was January 19th, I'd be grade 10 because the cutoff is the end of the year. Right. Right. But in the U.S., I believe their cutoff is September 1st. So in the U.S., with my birthday, I'd be grade 10. Right. Meaning I'd be graduating at 18. Whereas if I was in the U.S.
[15:33] Next year, I'd be graduating at 17 instead of going into grade 11 or graduating grade 11 at 17. So U.S., it could be 18 or 19, depending on your birthday. Okay. Got it. In terms of going into university? In terms of graduating high school. 19? It might be 19 for some people, I think. because if you're it doesn't matter but 18 but it can't be from 17 to 19 if it's only no in the u.s it's not 17 okay in the u.s it's 18 or 19 here it's 17 or 18 got it okay all right so but they're still teenagers yeah so to have green to be the only person with green skin the problem i had with with her alphama was that she was so grounded so perfect so self-possessed so you And they did say later, oh, she does care what people think, but there was virtually no evidence of that. She's like, well, I don't eat grass, and no, I don't do this, and no, I don't do that, and all of that. And so she was so perfectly composed and mature and self-possessed and comfortable in her own literal green skin. And the other girl who was in the wheelchair was, again, bubbly and friendly and positive. And to me, what that does is it means that the kids...
[16:46] What would be considered deficiencies, look at that and say, and I think the idea is, well, you're supposed to be comfortable and happy like they are, but I don't think they view it as aspirational. I think they view themselves as deficient for not being that comfortable.
[17:00] Like I saw this meme, I think I remember I showed it to you, where this woman was like, when you dye your skin to go to the premiere of Wicked, but then you find out- It's permanent. It's permanent. Mom showed me that. Yeah, it could take years. I think it's only a month or two. No, it actually could be quite a long time from what I heard. So she was horrified that she was going to be green for the foreseeable future, but it would, of course, eventually resolve, right?
[17:24] So I think the idea that there's no misery or unhappiness or self-consciousness or whatever by having these kinds of deficiencies, or even if you don't want to say deficiencies, differences, that I think is completely unrealistic, completely unrealistic for what teenagers actually go through. And I know they want it to be aspirational, but I think what it does is it makes people feel bad for feeling different. Like when I was in summer camp, I didn't have a mirror for a long time. And then I saw myself in a mirror and I had a cluster of pimples on my forehead. I felt wretched. Like honestly, and that's nothing compared to what these people were going through. So I thought that having everybody who had a significant difference or disability just be perfectly fine and happy and comfortable you know the only person with the deficiency was really ariana grande of eyebrows okay well she did not have i don't think those were her real eyelashes come to think of it come to think of it maybe not it looked like she had a spider farm above her eyes i don't think she had real eyelashes eyebrows or hair right right but so i i don't know i thought that was just a bit unrealistic and i think that.
[18:38] And although it could try and although it could try and it could be helpful and or not be helpful but it could be trying to say like guys it's okay to be different no no i get that's what i mean it is aspirational but let's just say the girl in the wheelchair that is a disability she's not just able in a different way and it's not any you could say that the green color of the skin is relatively insignificant to her personality for sure but the girl in the wheelchair that's huge didn't seem to have any any deficiencies i would rather have green skin than be in a wheelchair Right.
[19:09] So I think it's an unrealistic expectation for the kids who have real disabilities to just say, oh, yeah, you'll be fine and all of that. So I don't know. So now the other thing that I thought was interesting was about the animals. So there was this older goat. Now, of course, all I can think of is greatest of all time. Is what? G-O-A-T, greatest of all time. Oh, yeah, yeah. He's the goat. So there was this older goat who was being fired and let go, and the animals were being removed from the environment. And I'm not sure why. It didn't really make any sense to me because they could speak. They were intelligent. So I didn't make any... I think the wizard had a whole thing about people are discontented and always fighting, but to have a common enemy brings everyone together. Right. So I couldn't help but think that this might have something to do with the DEI stuff in terms of the older people who had authority for a long time were being dismissed simply for their biology. And that may have something to do with, you know, some of the white males and this kind of stuff where people are kind of getting kicked out or not being accepted. And that is a problem, but I don't think that was explicitly said. It just kind of reminded me of that. And I.
[20:19] That's it did seem yeah to be something something to do with it and i liked the goat he was fun the goat was linda now the other thing too is that in the musical that you're in you don't have a lead right you have a smaller role and we were talking about how the asian gay character killed it oh my gosh right he was so good like he really committed that's anything sorry yeah yeah that's anything i'll move like i'll do anything for you anything and then the guys like move and he's like that's anything yeah yeah so i thought he really brought a lot of energy and charisma and focus you know we were talking about this cliche there are no small roles only small actors yeah so of course this guy gets the role he everybody like you read eagerly through the script to see how many lines you have and of course he must have been like oh my gosh i get almost no lines but man did he ever put himself pour himself into that role and really was a screen presence which i thought was very the glasses really killed it the glasses were the The Elton John Glasses were just seriously perfect for that. Although I got to be honest, I know at first I didn't think I had a huge role in the play. Yeah. But considering that it's less than 60 minutes, like we are not having an intermission. There's nothing. It's really short. The fact that I got a whole song and two scenes, one scene basically focused on me entirely. I'd say it's pretty good. That's very good. Yeah. But so and so that he's an inspiration to small actors. Yeah, definitely. Definitely. But yeah, I wouldn't say my character is super small considering it's bigger than the majority. Yes, that's true. That's very true.
[21:49] So I thought that was interesting. Now, when we get to The Wizard. So this to me was the leftist media. Oh, wait, wait, one other thing. Before we get there, there's something else I want to say, which I'm going to say quite passionately. So forgive me for my passion. So there's this whole thing where villains get sympathetic backstories. You say, well, why was she bad? Because of her childhood. Everyone has a childhood. But she wasn't bad as an adult, and it turns out she only became, quote, bad because she wanted to fight against the evil, corrupt wizard.
[22:21] Right? The great Oz. So he turned out to be this evil, corrupt, Machiavellian manipulation guy. So she wasn't bad. She was fighting against him, which would make Galinda a bad witch and Alpha Mer, whatever her name was, Alpha Mer was the good way. So this is this inversal of all values. It's fundamentally, I'm telling you, it's fundamentally satanic. I'm not saying that that character was specifically satanic, but this idea that the bad guy is actually the good guy and the bad guy who's viewed as the bad guy is actually rebelling against an unjust ruler is foundationally satanic, right? So, for Christians, Satan is a selfish, evil rebellion against the virtue and justice of God. But for Satanists, God is unjust, mean, and wrong, and terrible, and Satan is rebelling against him, however hopeless it might be. He's going to rebel against God because God is unjust and corrupt and immoral. So, saying that this witch who's a bad witch in the original Oz story is actually a good witch because she's rebelling against an unjust and cruel authority. That is absolutely a satanic narrative, that who you think of as evil is actually justly rebelling against an evil, powerful being and a magical being and so on, right? And so that is, I'm concerned a little bit about this rehabilitation of corrupt and immoral people is fundamentally trying to sell Satanism to the young as a whole. Just pointing that out. Just pointing that out.
[23:50] So the other thing is that in the popular media, in the left-wing media, a lot of times, villains get a backstory that justifies their villainy, but they then designate certain people like Trump supporters and capitalists and industrialists and people like me. We're just evil. We're just bad, wrong, corrupt, evil. Yeah, come on, guys. And it's like, okay, Well, where's my, where's my backstory, right? Where's my building? I'm just a bad guy, but where's my backstory? Where's my, oh, well.
[24:26] Childhood. He had a crazy mother. There's lots of violence. Like, where's my back? I don't get a backstory. I'm just, right? So the witch who attacks children gets a sympathetic backstory, but half the population of America to these people is just, right, deplorable, racist, corrupt, evil, homophobes, and just terrible. And they don't get any backstory at all. They're just foundationally evil. So the evil witch who attacks children gets a sympathetic backstory, but everyone else who they designate as evil is just straight up evil needs to be destroyed and gets no sympathetic backstory at all and that to me is really really terrible it's just wretched and awful and terrible all around i just wanted to say that it that i was like i felt this visceral like my my my skin was prickling at the the the hypocrisy and injustice if everyone gets a sympathetic backstory except people like me who actually work to help protect children and make the world a better place. Then I'm just like a bad guy. I need to be de-platformed and I get no sympathetic backstory, even though I have a genuinely sympathetic backstory, right? Which is, you know, you could say, even if I was a bad guy, well, look at my childhood and blah, blah, blah. So I just wanted to point that out. That was, I tasted my popcorn twice. I just wanted to mention that.
[25:40] So if you look at sort of the, ours is the corrupt media guy. Well, if you look at the three people who were involved at the end, right? It was a single white woman. It was the green woman played by a black man a black woman and then it was the asian woman so who were the main pillars of support for leftist political party single black single white women black women and asians no she was like massively against it alfama she did rebel against it now the fact that the black actress rebelled against the this is to some degree how trump ended up securing a significant increase in the black vote which got him into the white house right so that's almost like a foreshadowing of that that single white women continue to vote for the left the asians continue to vote for the left but the blacks rebel against it i thought that was that also gave me some goosebumps about some of the accuracy of all of that yeah so i thought that was powerful and the last thing that i guess that i wanted to mention which i'll let you rip on if you want, was how old are these actors oh my god we looked this up i think 31 for ariana yep prince 35 five and 37 for.
[26:50] Y'all are 20 years older. I mean, I'm really, it was like Jurassic Park goes to high school. Bro, they fit the theme of medieval in the movie. Holy crap. People around for the original medieval stuff. What do you mean? You're in university.
[27:03] It's like those high school movies where everyone has a five o'clock shot. Oh, yes, that's true. That's true. So I thought that was wild. Now, I don't know what bizarre things Ariana Grande is putting on her skin, but it probably is also fairly satanic. But I mean, so she did look pretty young and it's kind of tough to look that young in like IMAX, right? Yeah. But yeah, they really did like straight from high school to the old age home. Literally. Like what was that prince? The prince did not look in his 20s, let alone. He looked like a teacher. He looked like a teacher. What is he doing? Dancing around. I thought this dance scene in the rotating library cylinders was really cool. That guy was so gay. The prince. The prince is so gay. He was flirting with everyone. so his outfits are so gay who wears skin tight pants as a man stop it well if mom would let me yeah you'd be out here in speedos so the funny thing is is that in the gay community there's such fans of judy garland who played the original girl in the wizard of oz that being gay used to refer to as being a friend of dorothy oh my gosh so but i thought he was really good good singer and i thought he really threw himself into the dance and all of that but yeah just so oh he that character though. Sorry? He embodied that character. What do you mean? He just was really good. Yeah, he really did. He put himself all in. I really, really appreciated the commitment. Oh my gosh.
[28:23] The the alpha beth alpha mo alpha mo sorry alpha mo sorry i keep feeling like i'm having half a stroke when i pronounce her name holy crap the pipes on that that woman yeah wow she's really good and because she had that soft voice singing which ariana grande does quite well too but towards the end when she really let her vocals soar yeah that was amazing goosebumps man when she was flying on the sprim stick and and really belting i've never felt that way with a vocal before but like wow that was amazing to me and i i just i i genuinely admire that kind of talent like obviously she's a good singer i thought she was a very good actress having those pipes and being able to work them that way you're kind of born with that you can't just be taught to do that obviously yeah she's gone through a.
[29:04] Lot of training but also very lucky like there's skill and luck with that yeah i just i shouldn't admire it because you're just kind of born with it but i kind of do it's just kind of a little irrational pocket of my brain like just being able to do that and to really let rip you know because whenever i let rip with vocals i just wobble and crack yeah right so for her being able to let rip like that way it's it really is with the music and the visuals it was really good like i really felt inspired and and excited by those scenes i thought emerald city was a bit chaotic it was like the you never watched this but mom and i did it was the willy wonka movie oh there's another villain backstory oh there's a villain backstory right right that came out recently right but i mean is willy wonka really a villain i mean i think he is he's a strict and manipulative he was absolutely terrifying in the book the movie and the play that i was in yeah or in behind the scenes in right so yeah i still i count i've always seen willy wonka as a villain i hear willy wonka i think villain i don't care that he didn't actually harm the kids he's creepy put them in situations where they were almost inevitably going to get harmed but they never actually got harmed at the end he was always like oh they were frightened right yeah absolutely terrified there's emotional damage with that too yeah absolutely i view him as pretty villainous yeah i see he's villain but we watched his backstory where they tried to paint him as a huge hero and the emerald city just looked like a cheaply made version of that city.
[30:27] Well and you don't remember these guys i forgot to get pictures of them but there are guys who are giant blobs with legs and no arms who were doing all this dancing the fountain really creepy i felt that they were just like ai generated no they were real actors remember i showed you that that little video the blob jumping up on the platforms in the guy wearing like one of those round suits right i felt those a little bit odd and creepy the world as a whole didn't really make much sense to me like why is there a train with only one passenger and what's the economy and and they did in other worlds like obviously lord of the rings and very great world building great world building and the matrix was great world building and.
[31:07] Things like if the hunger games uh it was great world building oh there's one other i was trying to remember or or think of even star wars had pretty good world building but this one it all just felt like a set piece it did oh let's let's put everyone crazy in green costumes and have them dance like nuts for no reason there's no i have a feeling that is reminiscent of the the play version like the original musical that's what they try and do sometimes with the the musicals yeah or when they make them into movies they try and make them a lot more chaotic that's how it's always felt when i've seen a musical made into a movie right i think personally music like plays and movies are very very different mediums of art and performance and they should not be trying to copy one another like you shouldn't try and make a movie into a play with without making it into a play right like the only thing you should really keep is the story and the characters but not the way it's done or not the way it's shown so i think for musicals obviously have your dance scenes, but make it like a movie. So yeah, in a musical on stage, you can't do world building. Yeah. So that's what I mean. If it's going to be in a movie, you have to expand on the world building. Right. So there has to be, okay, what's the economy?
[32:18] For instance, I didn't see any farmers. No, me neither. So what's everyone eating? How is everyone getting food? I know, again, I know that sounds, but I want to believe in the world. The reason I want to believe in the world is it has to be a world that's worth saving. It has to be like i cared about the shire in lord of the rings you have to feel like you would you could live there i could live there i could not live in that world because it isn't really a world it's like a weird drug dream like there's no reality to it so i'm not sure why does the arse have all of his power what is the political structure how does he enforce his rules what's the economy like it has to be in the middle earth of the shire and and the beauty of the landscape and all of that you want to save that world minus tirith this beautiful city on the white city on the hill helms deep like all of the heroes you want that world to be saved so when sauron is going to destroy that world you care about it and i don't know about this because it didn't feel real.
[33:10] I'm not sure that i really want to save it like i didn't really understand why the goat was all the animals were suddenly because they were clearly intelligent and they could speak and so on so why say oh we're just turning against them for whatever reason but it could have been done better yeah again with two hours and 40 minutes of runtime there is zero need to cut corners right and there zero need to shorten down explanations the set piece of yeah the powers going to university and then uh the makeover the makeover seems to be like so many movies that could have been cut that could have been not completely cut but that song but it went nowhere that song did not have to be so long but it was not that good and how much makeover can you do with the green girl with dreadlocks like there's really not that much makeover that can be done you could make over the clothing and do makeup and stuff but yeah so I felt that was again these kinds of sort of set pieces seem to be.
[34:04] Not particularly necessary, but they kind of had to follow these particular cliches. Now, they're cliches because they work. And for the younger set, it doesn't really matter. But for me, you know, Pushing 60, you know, you and I did a show some years ago about all the cliches in movies. So when you see all of these set pieces, again, it's different for younger people. But for me, it's like been there, seen it. So I thought it was a bit long. The singing was fantastic. The acting was good. I thought Ariana Grande was great. I thought the woman who played the, I can't remember her name, who played the green. Cynthia. Cynthia. Fantastic. She couldn't, To me, there's no way she could have improved upon that role. I think the direction could have been like a little better in terms of give her, don't make her so noble and perfect at the beginning. So she's got more of a character. Yeah. Again, there's only so much like, I never know whether I should blame the actor or the director. Right, right. Well, I think the director has the final say. Yeah, I would always say, I usually aim for director. I feel like almost anybody can act with enough training and direction.
[34:57] So. and black actresses have long complained that they have to play these blankly noble perfect characters there are a lot of black actresses who's like please let me play a villain but because of the sort of political correctness stuff they don't really get that opportunity they have to play this sort of brave noble strong playing villains is so fun like i'm playing i would consider the character in my play or the play i'm in a villain you can certainly make it into i'm making into a villain yeah villains are more fun my plan is to outshine the queen of hearts which may not be a good plan but i just want to say based off of who i know is playing the queen of hearts it's doable i can do it so do you know why it's called upstaging why so upstaging is when yeah i know but like why so the reason is so not particularly necessary but they kind of had to follow these particular cliches now they're cliches because they work and for the younger set it doesn't really matter but for me you know pushing 60 you know you and i did a show some years ago about all the cliches in movies and so when you see all of these set pieces again it's different for younger people but for me it's like been there seen it so i thought it was a bit long the singing was fantastic the acting was good i thought ariana grande was great i thought the woman who played the i can't remember her name who played the green cynthia cynthia fantastic she couldn't to me there's no way she could have improved upon that role i think the direction could have been like a little better in terms of give her don't make her so noble and perfect at the beginning so she's got more of a character yeah again there's only so much like i never know whether i should blame the actor or the director right right.
[36:21] Well, I think the director has the final say. Yeah, I would always say, I usually aim for director. I feel like almost anybody can act with enough training and direction.
[36:31] And black actresses have long complained that they have to play these blankly noble, perfect characters. There are a lot of black actresses who are like, please let me play a villain. But because of the sort of political correctness stuff, they don't really get that opportunity. They have to play this sort of brave, noble, strong. Playing villains is so fun. I would consider the character in my play, or the play I'm in a villain. You can certainly make it into a villain. I'm making it into a villain. Yeah. Villains are more fun. My plan is to outshine the Queen of Hearts, which may not be a good plan, but I just want to say based off of who I know is playing the Queen of Hearts, it's doable. I can do it. So do you know why it's called upstaging?
[37:06] Why? So upstaging is when you take- Yeah, I know, but like, why? So the reason is, so let's say you've got a character here at the front of the stage, and they're supposed to be here talking to each other. Then they turn towards each other, right? yeah but if you go slightly upstage then the character at the front has to turn around away from the audience to talk to you whereas you're still facing the audience and so it's it's a cheap method used by actors it's called upstaging so so that you the the guy you're trying to compete with has to turn away from the audience and the audience is only going to watch you because you don't want to watch the back of someone's head you want to watch right so so you aim to and i i'm not hey all's fair in love war and theater right so you love war theater you aim to draw more attention to yourself.
[37:47] I know, I don't have a single scene with the Queen of Hearts, which I don't think makes sense. Yeah, but you want to be more memorable than that. I know, but I'm just saying, I'm just saying, because otherwise I would do that. Because like, I'm literally the captain of the Navy. And then in the entire scene with the Queen of Hearts, I don't get called up for questioning. And I'm not even there as like a guard. I'm literally the Navy. I'm like with the Queen. Okay, you know what? It's fine. Less than no sense. It's fine. It's fine.
[38:10] So, yeah. So would you recommend people watch the movie? I mean, if you want to. but you wouldn't recommend it for me it was like it didn't feel that long it genuinely when the movie ended i was expecting it to go on for another 40 minutes okay i don't know why like it didn't speed along i would say it was interesting i don't think it's very much for guys it's not a guy movie no and it's not that much of a date movie no if you're a woman i would say it's probably worth a watch you might like it for guys i'd say maybe not it's i mean the only real male characters are gay so or gay adjacent friends of dorothy i mean the prince yes he was dating a woman he's gay so he was listen just because he can dance no no no he flirted with every single man in that dance scene in the library bro he's like grabbing their jaw and staring into them like belovedly.
[39:06] Maybe that's just testosterone intensity. No. It can be tough for females to understand this. No, it's not. What are you on about? I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I think I've known guys are gay before they've known they're gay. Right. Right. Anyways, all I'm saying is the only male characters in the show are gay. I mean, come on. He went out to save a baby animal. Real men eat it for protein. So anyway, no, I'm kidding. I'm kidding. Okay. So do you think that the guy, I can't get my protein. I can't get my protein. Do you think he's going to start eating baby lion cubs for protein? I would watch that in horror. If he ain't gay, he will. You have no excuse. He's always struggling. You got no excuses. My favorite are his parents. Yeah, you can't do that. You're killing yourself. You're going to get sick. You're going to keep it down. You've got to throw up. That was beautiful. So British. He already bought his mom 72 eggs. What the F am I supposed to do with 72 eggs?
[40:06] All right so i would say i would i i would say if you want to get the good wicked experience listen to the soundtrack because to me the major thing was the singing of the songs the only thing that's stuck in my head i can't hear the word popular anymore popular you're gonna be popular yeah yeah and she like goes from singing to false i don't know it's like i would have changed it to you're gonna be popular and then just turn her into a tree that would actually be much funnier that would have been that would have been excellent this is why you need to you and i need to direct this yeah we'll work on it so what's the next one is it wicked two is it just what's going to be coming out next year at the same time i think you'll see a review probably yes all right well thanks everyone freedom.com slash donate thanks izzy uh it was very interesting and let us know what you think of the movie yeah you guys better donate because we spent three hours just to provide you with high quality review material that's right and i even ate popcorn which i really do all right and i didn't they finished it before i ate it okay bye.
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