0:00:00 Introduction and Invitation to Join Live Stream
0:11:22 Women's Hyper-Responsibility for Accidents and Guilt
0:16:07 Uncomfortable Family History and Karmic Debt
0:21:53 The Divorce and Financial Disparity
0:26:18 Assessing the Grandmother's Role and Motivations
0:29:36 Speculating on the Grandfather's Intentions and Actions
0:33:13 The Dirty Nature of Wealth and Breeding
0:42:52 Women's Perception of History vs Men's Perception
0:53:19 The Biological Imperative and Relationship Insecurities
0:57:21 Opening up to new perspectives and self-reflection
1:00:33 Discussing personal history and choices
1:01:00 Balancing Work and Marriage with Young Children
1:04:24 Early Years: Sweat Lodges and Native American Traditions
1:13:11 A Fascination with Something Different
1:15:39 The Importance of Independence
1:20:14 The Interdependence of Men and Women
1:21:26 Promoting Eldest Son to Protect and Be the Man of the House
1:22:49 The Illusion of Love and Lies
1:24:55 Embracing Vulnerability and the Need for Connection
1:25:46 The Power of Complementarity between Men and Women
1:30:15 Passionate but not contributing financially
1:39:35 The Importance of Showing Need and Vulnerability


Introduction and Invitation to Join Live Stream

[0:00] Yoda, Yoda, I'm here for ya. Good afternoon, everybody.
2.36 p.m. on the 27th of April, 2023.
And I am all kinds of here for you, my friends. If you have a comment, issue, or a problem, a criticism, you name it, I am all ears.
I am all ears.
And thanks, everyone, who dropped by last night. It was a great chat.
Don't forget, freedomain.locals.com It's where I'm doing most of my live streaming these days.
You can drop by there and join me.
Usually Wednesday nights, either 7 or 9 p.m. Fridays, 7 p.m.
And sometimes on the weekends.
Depends how, you know, how bad my hangover is. I'm just kidding. Like I drink.

[0:47] Not super likely. I did just post this morning. I did one of the wildest.
I do these social media reviews.
So I sort of browse social media and looking, you know, looking for interesting things. And I'll bookmark stuff. Some of it's to show my daughter, some of it's just sort of my own.
I'm doing a truth about artificial intelligence presentation, so I'm doing a lot of research on that.
And the wildest stuff I will talk about.
And I have a particular fetish, or I guess you could say a soft spot, for people who post pictures of terrible food with great pride.
It is one of the things that makes me laugh just about the hardest in the known universe. And I wish to share that joy with you, my friends.
And so you can go to freedomain.locals.com.
It's called Social Media Review 4.

[1:33] And you can check it out. I think it's pretty fun. So if you have comments, just raise your hand.
And I will attempt to accommodate as best I can.
We do seem to have a giant fish in the house. Yes, my friend.
You can just unmute yourself, and I'm happy to hear, happy to help if I can.

[1:56] Hello. Hello, hello. What's on your mind?
I have a very interesting situation.
It's a bit, today I realized a significant sum of money, had been found and taken from me by somebody who has worked for me for a number of years. is.
And the interesting twist to this tale is a year ago, almost to the minute that I realized that the money had gone and who had taken it, a year ago, almost to the minute he lost the vision in one of his eyes whilst working at my place.
And so in some funny way, it feels like a karmic, even though it's extraordinarily significant, the sum to me, there's this karmic debt that's been paid.
Wow, that's quite a tale. I mean, I'm certainly happy to hear more.
I'm interested in this question of karma and coincidence, because as you sort of age, either for positive or negative reasons, you end up noticing these kinds of patterns. But yeah, I'm happy to hear more about the story.

[3:22] I don't know what else to tell you. I don't want to reveal. I don't know.
I'm a bit nervous of revealing too much to be fair.
I mean, it's quite a story because it's actually treasure he found.
I'm in an African country.

[3:39] And I thought to invest in silver and gold.
And I buried it in my garden. And he found it.

[3:56] And so, how do you know? If it was just missing, how did you know it was this dude?
So, I started to look for it, and I realized it was gone, and I dug this enormous bloody hole over a number of days.
And I realized that it, even though I kept thinking, maybe it's another couple of centimeters, you know, I'm digging for treasure here.
It is quite funny, actually, the story, in a way.

[4:28] And I phoned him and I said, did you find a box? And he said, no, madam, I'll see you on Thursday.
And I trusted that I would see him today, and I phoned him on Tuesday.
And so today I went up with the farm manager, who is an African chap as well, and he speaks the same language as the other chap, And we went to where the chap who I've been employing lives, which is a squalid, awful township.
I can assure you it's quite shocking when you see poverty like this.
And I've been there a number of times.
So the farm manager spoke to the people on asking where he is, and they said, no, no, no, they packed up and left. They took everything yesterday and they left.
So there is only one person who's taken it.

[5:26] You don't just disappear. Yeah, yeah. I think that's fairly circumstantially strong. And so what happened then?
So then I left and came back.
I've been in shock, to be fair, all day. And I spoke to my sister.
And as I spoke to her, I live on my own. I have two dogs. I'm living off-grid.

[5:52] Anyway, so I spoke to my sister.
And as I spoke to her, I realized the synchronicity of the timing, the fact that I had felt enormous guilt the whole year around him losing his sight in one eye.
He's a young, healthy man, just got married. I'd helped him.

[6:15] African people give money to the father when they get married for the payment for the bride.
And I helped him with the money for that. that and obviously when he lost his sight I would help him with bills and wages and where I where I can help him um and every professional man I spoke to here around him losing his sight said um in the um it's it's your responsibility you know if I chop my hand off while I'm working for you I've got to deal with it it's not your story as you can probably hear I'm from England and in England there would be an enormous you know you would be uh you would have to pay insurance or some debt.
And so in some funny way, it is a significant sum. It's no small amount.
This significant amount, I realized as I spoke to my sister, was my payment to him.

[7:08] I'd severed the debt by him finding it and making that choice in that moment, which must have have been overwhelming finding a box with gold and silver in it it's a true treasure it's a true treasure but how did he find it i asked him to move an enormous stone and i was gonna then carry on and when i got there he'd started to dig and i said oh no no don't worry i'll carry on and i thought it was a year ago when i buried it well not a year ago about 10 months ago and i thought I thought I'd buried it deeper, to be honest with you. Anyway, that's how.
Now, sorry, so he just recently, you think, took the box. When did he lose his sight?

[8:04] So today is the 27th, hey? Uh-huh. Am I right? Sorry.
He lost his sight on the 25th of April 2022. too.
Okay, so he lost the sight in one eye, and then you think he took the box a day or two ago, right?
Yes, but he lost his sight a year ago. Yeah, but doesn't karma normally work the other way, that you do something bad and then something bad happens to you?
Well, I think what's happened is, well, for me, I feel like my land, where he lost his sight is somehow, how i felt guilty around it because it's on my land for the whole year oh so he'd had an injury on your land in your employee is that right correct oh so the karma is to you not to him if that if i understand this correct yeah i've paid it's been paid yeah yeah yeah yeah Yeah.
Interesting. Interesting.

[9:13] And the timing, I can tell you, it's like on almost to the minute, almost to the minute a year ago when I heard him say, Madam, I've hurt myself.
And I turned around and I saw the blood coming out of his eye.
And straight away i took it obviously took it to accident and emergency but it it was almost a minute a year later that i realized he'd taken this money now i mean that could be karma but i think more likely if what you're saying is is i'm not saying it's not true it's just to be you know there's no particular proof it's not like on video or anything but it seems to me it could be of the mindset more like well this woman owes me because i got injured and And so it's likely that he would then take something because of that.
I absolutely agree with you on that. I mean, yeah, I've been through that thought of he finds it.
He knows that I'm I've been generous to him prior to him losing the sight in one eye and since that.
So it's not that I've changed or anything. He knows that I'm generous to people who work for me.

[10:25] But obviously he finds this treasure and he thinks well she owes me and so he feels justified in taking it i i can i can sense i get that sense of it now why did you feel guilty about sorry go ahead yeah no no i would rather you ask me a question so why did you feel guilty over him injuring his eye i mean was it a tool you gave him that turned out to be faulty or Or was there some, were you causal in some way? No, nothing.
It's probably more my nature of just thinking, oh my goodness, what a terrible thing to happen around, you know, in my environment, you know, around me, in my, in my employ.
Well, but I mean, it sounds like, I mean, he made whatever error or mistake he made and this caused the eye injury, right?

Women's Hyper-Responsibility for Accidents and Guilt

[11:22] But you, my friend, as a female, take over ownership of the accidents of the world, right?
Correct. I'm also a homeopath of 30 years and volunteer in townships.
Well no but see charity is one thing but taking ownership of the accidents of the world which you had nothing to do with i assume you weren't even in the vicinity when he did whatever he did to injure his eye but then you feel guilty and this this comes out of i mean it's a beautiful part of maternal nature but this comes out of women hyper responsibility for babies and toddlers right if you have a toddler in your environment then you are responsible for keeping that that toddler is safe.
And it's easy to extend that for women. Do you have kids?

[12:13] Two, yes. Yeah, okay. So, I mean, you know what it's like.
I mean, you have to have that third eye. You have to be constantly aware of what your kids are doing.
And men as a whole, we're like, you know, crap happens, you know.
And we can show some sympathy.
That's a real shame that you injured your eye. But the idea that we would feel guilty for somebody else having an accident, which we didn't do anything to cause or have any influence over, that's a bit of a foreign concept for men as a whole.
But it seems to be quite common for women. Like if you see a poor person, like let's say it's a relatively free country.
I know you're not in a super free country, but let's say it's a relatively free country.
If you see a poor person, you feel guilty, right?

[13:00] Totally. Yeah, which is why when women get the vote, you get the welfare state, right?
I look at a poor person and I'm like, well, that's a shame that they've made those choices.
Or maybe they have some limit in their intelligence or some cognitive deficiency or something, in which case, sure, you know, be a little charitable and help them out and so on.
But for the most part, I look at poor people and I think, okay, there's costs and benefits to everything.
You know, there's costs to making money.
You've got to work pretty hard. You've got to take a lot of risks and so on.
And there's benefits to staying poor, right? You don't have to change the social circle.
You get a lot more free time and so on.
And if you compare the benefits of being having some money with the benefits of with the costs of being poor then you feel guilty but a lot of the poor people look at the rich people and say oh my god what a terrible they're on this hamster wheel going on forever it's a treadmill that never ends that you know i mean i remember when i worked with people who didn't make much money they look at the bosses often with a mixture of pity and contempt like what a terrible life right.

[14:06] So, when I look at poor people, I'm like, wow, you got a lot of free time.
You don't have much responsibility.
When you go home, the job doesn't follow you. You don't have to answer emails at two in the morning.
You don't have to get jet lagged by flying from place to place.
You don't have a whole bunch of people depending on your competence to keep their jobs afloat.
Like, I look at people who don't make much money and I'm like, damn, that's a pretty nice life in a lot of ways.
And the idea that I would feel pity for someone who's chosen to have, like, you know, if you you look at a monk you look at a monk you don't sit there and say oh that poor bugger you know like how terrible like no or or somebody who's decided like i took a year and a half off from working when i was in my early 30s because i wanted to write novels and my income was zero right i mean and i lived off savings and so i was officially like way below the poverty line and would anyone sit there and say oh that poor poor person i have to breastfeed him from the sky or something.
And so for women, I think a lot of times they say, I have these benefits.
Someone else doesn't have these benefits if it's money or whatever.
And therefore I feel sorry for that person.

[15:14] And I've never quite understood that because again, having come from a very poor background, I mean, there are some serious benefits to not making money and to being poor, serious benefits.
Now, of course, if poor people can get resources often from women by crying pity and poverty and sorrow and all this kind of stuff it's like well.

[15:37] Then you're going to just end up with more poor poor people crying poverty and asking for charity and so on but yeah it's just interesting to me that you would feel guilty for somebody, injuring themselves for for men a lot of times not only do we not feel guilty it's like Like, you idiot.
Like, why weren't you more careful? Yeah, I know. I tried to cultivate that, but I just couldn't.
And so it's very interesting having your perspective on it.

Uncomfortable Family History and Karmic Debt

[16:07] I must say, I wasn't quite sure, obviously, what would happen when I spoke.
And I'm actually in quite a lot of shock because of working it out this morning.
So my brain's a bit weird at the moment. I can't remember certain things.
But, and I wondered, what on earth is he, because I've been listening to you only quite recently, and I find your observations very interesting.
And I hadn't actually reached the, you know, like, what on earth will happen?
Well, now, now here's another interesting question. And this is very far out there. And listen, I sympathize with the theft.
I mean, that's very shocking and very alarming and very upsetting.
So I understand that. But let me ask you this.
Do you think there's any part of you?

[16:56] That didn't feel comfortable with the gold and silver, that felt that it might be negative or destructive or dangerous or problematic in some way?

[17:08] Well i tell you what it did does did do to me is that i suspect in my ancestral line particularly my grandfathers both of them very successful businessmen, i think i think some of the money in my family is is dirty is bad bad that yeah that, does that make sense i mean i'm not sure what you mean by makes sense i mean i can certainly understand the perspective do you mean you think that they exploited the natives or stole resources Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.
All of that, but not in this country, but yes. Okay.
And I don't want to probe too deeply, but if there's anything that you wanted to share about why you think that in the most abstract way possible, why do you think that?

[18:12] Do you know family constellations, Steph?
Sorry, say again?
Family constellations uh no i mean i know what each of one of those words means but i don't know what it means in combination it's a a healing modality where you uh observe um the constellation of a family that's the only way to describe it i suppose but you when you do that you go into a field it's quite you probably know lynn mctaggart the book the field and you actually, Anyway, I've been doing some family constellations and I've been talking to my ancestors and I've been giving back what has got nothing to do with me.
When I came to the realization that I felt the karmic debt between this chap and I is finished because he made a choice.

[19:11] I realized that the male line in my family is involved because I know that there was theft and stealing in the background of their businesses, which I know is probably most businesses.
What do you mean by theft and stealing?
My grandfather stole an idea from his best friend, patented it and became very wealthy with it.
And was his best friend's idea patented? Was it copyrighted? Yeah.
And did your best friend, did his best friend not go to court and get his just due?
Seemingly not.

[20:04] Okay so your grandfather stole an idea from his best friend the best friend had it copyrighted or patented your best friend did not pursue any legal action to recover what was his and that was the sort of foundation of the wealth is that right um and he also took my grandmother's money as well.
So your grandfather took your grandmother's money?
As well, yeah. How does that work?
She had the wealth in the relationship and he divorced her and had used her money to set up his businesses and I don't know she probably hadn't worked at the legal sides or whatever but she was left with very little I'm sorry how did he get her money he divorced her did he have ownership of them I'm not sure how he would get the money he well when he was married to her he used her money to create his businesses.

[21:11] Okay so she came into the marriage wealthy and he used her money to start out his businesses and then he divorced her yeah yeah i'm sorry how is that i'm not following how is that stealing her money i mean she voluntarily gave the money to him she obviously yes yeah i suppose um excuse me from a familial perspective as the granddaughter i always thought that my grandfather was quite nasty to my grandmother because she didn't have what he had what do you Do you mean she didn't have what he had?
Because when they got divorced, he had the businesses and she had very little.

The Divorce and Financial Disparity

[21:53] Okay, so she gave him money to start his businesses. He started the businesses.
He divorced her, and she was left with very little. Is that right?
Correct. Now, how do you know any of that is true? And I'm not saying that anyone's lying.
It's just that when it comes to family history, a lot of times we only hear one side of things, right? Like, I only heard my mother's side of the divorce from my father.
So how do you know that any of that is true? In other words, did you get your grandfather's side of things, or were there any documents or papers that you looked at that were more objective, or was this all matrilineal mythology?
Well, observation of where my granddad lived and where my grandmother lived after their divorce, and just seeing that she was not as well off as he.
I mean, an enormously big difference.
Okay so she ended up poor and he ended up wealthy is that right and how long were they married do you know before they divorced, uh well they had six kids so um they were married at least 10 20 years okay and do you know why he divorced her um i don't know why but he remarried the same day.

[23:14] So he divorced her and remarried the same day. Divorce takes a little while, doesn't it?
Maybe the same day the divorce was finalized? Probably maybe that, yeah.
But the same day it was finalized, he must have, yeah, that's, yeah. That would be it, yeah.
So your assumption is that he's a real bastard, right?
Yeah, he was quite a tricky chap. He was also an alcoholic, and he was a tricky chap. A what?
A tricky chap. Oh, I thought you said a cheeky chap, like he was a player or something. Okay.
Okay. So why, do you view your grandmother as a victim in this?
Look, she never was, she was, my grandmother was a very proud woman.
She would never complain. You could just see.

[24:13] So yes, I would see her. I would see the difference, basically.
Sorry. Sorry, do you view her, this is not a trick question, I'm just curious, do you view her as a victim in all of this?
I suppose I do. Okay, and why do you view her as a victim?
I mean, she chose to marry your grandfather, right? I assume she was a fairly attractive woman, and so I assume that, yeah, so she was an attractive woman, so she had her pick of suitors, right? Right.
She probably could have had 20 men proposed to her, at least at least 20 men, young eligible men.
And so she chose this guy because I assume he was intelligent and charismatic and hard driven and aggressive and, you know, all the things that some women, most women really like that kind of stuff.
So she chose him for qualities other than his virtues. Right.

[25:11] And so she chose him because he was going to be a good provider, which meant he was really aggressive.
But really aggressive men often don't have an abundance of empathy, right? This is the challenge that women face.
If you want a good father to your children, he's going to have a lot of sensitivity and empathy, but that means he's not going to be quite as good at getting resources, right?
So the women have to choose between a good provider and a good husband.
At least it's not always one and the same, right? And what happens, of course, as you know, is the women who say, I want a good provider, Later, they then complain that the men aren't emotionally available and work too hard, right, and don't connect with the children.
Or they choose a guy who's really sensitive and deep and empathetic and all of that, and they say, you know, he's really good with the kids, but my God, we're broke, right, because he's not out there fighting.
Because a guy who's really soft and sensitive goes up against a guy like your grandfather, and a guy like your grandfather wipes the floor with him, right? Right.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So your grandmother chose a guy based upon some standard other than virtue.

Assessing the Grandmother's Role and Motivations

[26:18] Right. And that standard was, I assume, aggression. And he probably was tall, dark and handsome and had all of that Heathcliff stuff going on and and all of that. So so she chose this guy. Yeah.
And he was a good provider, wasn't he?

[26:33] Yeah. Well, you see, she bought the money. him but he did create the business the business yeah okay so so she didn't even need the good provider because she already had money right yeah yeah and i assume she had money because her own father your great-grandfather her own father was a good provider and an aggressive guy who left her with a lot of money right, That's all I can assume because I have no idea. Well, I mean, money is hard to come by, right?
So if your grandmother was wealthy, it was because she had some – her father or someone produced a lot of goods and resources, right? Yeah.
Right. Yeah. Okay. Now, I appreciate this. It's very, very interesting to me, and I'm building towards a speech, so get comfortable.
But it's not here yet. It's just emerging slowly like Atlantis from the depths.
So just get comfy, get patient.
Okay so was she a victim she was wealthy she was beautiful right and she could have had just about any guy she wanted and she chose this guy.

[27:44] So she wasn't a victim no now as far as I'm just playing devil's advocate here right I don't know the story And I suspect nobody knows the story who's still alive, right?
But it could be that your grandfather, who told you that your grandfather stole the idea from his best friend? How did you find that out?

[28:09] It was like, it's what my mother and my uncles have told me, his sons.
Okay, so they said that. Let's say that that's true, right?
Probably is let's say that it's true okay first of all you can only steal an idea if you believe in intellectual property rights like i don't know if you're into classical music you probably are but classical music the reason why there was a heyday of classical music.

[28:41] And that classical music tended to be in Germany and other places more in Central Europe and not, say, in England, was that in England, they had very strict copyright for music.
Whereas in Germany, you could copy people, you could embellish, you could take snatches of other people's music, and you couldn't be taken to court for any of that. There wasn't copyright in music.
So I'm not a fan of intellectual property rights.
Rights so it's only theft if you believe in intellectual property rights and that's a debatable point it wasn't like he he stole like like your guy stole the gold maybe right it wasn't like that so it could be it could be that your grandfather was uh his friend let's call him bob right your grandfather had a friend named bob bob had a killer idea for a business and your Your grandfather was like, this is amazing.

Speculating on the Grandfather's Intentions and Actions

[29:36] We have to do this. And maybe he wanted to do it together or maybe whatever.
And his friend Bob was like, no, no, no, I'll do it. And just never did.
Now, I was trying to explain this to my daughter the other day.
So there's a guy code in general. And the guy code goes something like this.
Two guys like a girl named Mary, right?

[29:57] And one guy, for some reason, has dibs. Like maybe he saw her first or maybe he likes her a little more or maybe she likes him a little more.
And so guy A will say to guy B, okay, take your shot. And guy B will then go and ask out Mary.
Now, if Mary says no, then obviously guy A can go and ask her out.
However, there's also something which is he who hesitates is lost. lost.
So if the guy B, who's got dibs on Mary, if he doesn't ask her out, what does guy A end up doing?

[30:37] Well, not having a go, I don't know, losing out.
No, see, that's a female perspective, and I love you for it. I think it's beautiful.
But no, so if I've got a friend who wants to to ask a girl out that we both like i'll say you know hey man go go ahead give it a shot right now if weeks go by and he doesn't ask her out do you know what i do i ask her out, because it's like hey man i gave you the shot but i'm not going to be banned for if you're not going to ask her out i'm going to ask her out and you sort of think of a hunt think of a hunting party right like we have to bring food back for the women and children and you as a dude and i were We're out there, and I'm like, and you're like, I want to throw the spear first because I need to practice. And I'm like, yeah, go for it, man.
Now, if the deer is running away and you don't throw your spear, what do I do?

[31:31] I throw this beer. Because if you don't do it, I will.
And this is a bit of a difference between males and females as a whole.
And so, your grandfather, maybe the other guy was doing nothing with his great idea.
And maybe your grandfather didn't believe in property rights for intellectual property or copyright or whatever, right?
And listen, the fact that your grandfather's friend didn't take him to court or threaten to means that he probably didn't have the aggression you need to be a successful businessman.
Maybe he had a great idea but was doing nothing with it and wasn't ever going to do anything with it. Because people who fail the test of their own ideas often blame other people. The fact that he blamed your grandfather.
You know, if my friend doesn't ask the girl out and then I ask the girl out, my friend feels humiliated.
If the girl goes out with me, we get married, we're happy or whatever.
And what's he going to spend the rest of his life doing? He's going to spend the rest of his life saying, oh, that Steph, he stole my girl.

[32:47] Because he didn't act when action was needed. And he won't blame himself, so he blames other people.
Now, I'm not saying this is true, but it's certainly, to my male way of thinking, that's a very real possibility.
That makes sense. So maybe the idea would have just languished completely.
Now, you think that the money is dirty, right? You think that the money is dirty.

The Dirty Nature of Wealth and Breeding

[33:13] You think that your grandfather's a bad man.
Well, I'm going to let you in on a little secret here, my friend, and this will liberate you from now until the end of time.
And I say this to all women, particularly Western women, all right? right?
Almost all wealth is dirty.
And almost all breeding is dirty.
By, you know, if you want to look at it that way. So, did you, when you were younger, did you wear makeup?

[33:49] Yeah. Okay. Now, you know, makeup falsifies your appearance and gives you the facial characteristics of a woman who's highly sexually aroused right that's what makeup is for to give you the flush on the cheeks to give you the red lips all of which signal sexual arousal it's the female equivalent of a guy strapping a giant boner to his his leg now is that cheating kind of, a little bit right.

[34:19] A lot of times you know i mean you know as a woman i'm sure you never partook in any of this But you know how females compete for males is often by bad-mouthing each other, right?

[34:33] By spreading rumors, oh, this woman has a, she was a real slut, she'll kiss anything that moves, she's really vain, she's, you know, whatever, right?
She wears a girdle, she ain't that thin, she's got a padded bra, her boobs aren't that big, you know, and a lot of, so that's dirty, right?
Yep. Spreading false rumors, well, spreading rumors about someone that are false is dirty, right? right?

[35:01] When I was in, yes, going from the macro to the minor, when I was in summer camp, I was dancing with a girl for just about the first time.
I was, I don't know, maybe 12 or 13. I was dancing with a girl for just about the first time. It was a wonderful moment. I still remember the song that was playing, everything, right?
Now, one of the other guys I was, quote, friends with walked by and kicked me rather savagely in the thigh because he liked that girl, and i had gone to ask that girl and he hadn't and so he sabotaged right, and i was like i was listing like the lusitania like i was tipping over and it was i had to sort of struggle to stay up and you know it was it took a really nice moment and turned it into a really tricky moment, so to speak, right? Now, that's dirty, right?
And it happens all the time. If you're in the business world and you're doing a presentation and your competitor just walked out the door, you're going to throw subtle shade on your competitor.

[36:11] If you are a male lion and you come across a female lion, whether her mate is dead or gone, and she's got cubs, you'll kill those cubs because you want your genes to survive, not your competitor's genes.
So evolution is dirty. Sexual competition is dirty.
For a man to wear secret raises in his shoes to make himself look an inch or two taller, that's dirty. That's lying. lying.
All's fair in love and war. There is a huge amount of dirty fighting in nature, in love, in sex, in business.
Now, you can either rise above that like a stainless angel and say, well, everything wasn't perfect in the way that resources came to my family, my country, my culture.
And then you feel shame and you feel this weird need to provide restitution and so on, right?

[37:27] You provided this guy who worked for you, you gave him a job. You were nice, right?
And still you feel guilt basically because you're doing better than he is, right?
Yeah. And this, you know, there's an aspect of women and the West, right?
Which is people say to Western women, you're only wealthy because your ancestors stole from our ancestors.
They stole our land. They stole our gold. They stole our natural resources. They stole our oil.
They stole our sovereignty. They stole our people.

[38:07] Now, men, I won't speak for all men, And I'm not even speaking directly for myself, but the male perspective is, yeah, you lost.
There's a brutal competition in the world, and your ancestors lost, and you should probably learn from that.
Sucks to be you. We won. You lost. That's the way of things.

[38:36] Whereas women, what do women feel when people say, your ancestors stole from my ancestors, and that's the only reason you're wealthy, and that's the only reason that I'm poor, and right? What do women feel?
Guilty. Yeah. Oh, I feel so bad. I now hate my culture.
The men here are just terrible. They're patriarchs. they're colonialists and here's some foreign aid and we don't have any borders you understand this guilt it's crazy, I guarantee you that you have fought dirty in your life I guarantee you I know I have you don't have to give me any big details but give me one I have, you have, we all have.

[39:26] Oh now i'm gonna think about something uh you don't have to if you don't want to but you know sometimes a bit more vivid stuff is better immediately i'm afraid but i know i have, but i can't think of anything to be fair well i'm sure that you you may not have generated a rumor but if you were in competition with someone you might have passed along a rumor you probably used makeup you might have used to push up bra you might might have used, I don't know, a girdle or something like that.
But you've done something to falsify something in order to gain an advantage over someone else. Absolutely.
Absolutely. This happens in the entrepreneurial world all the time.
You claim to be more successful than you actually are.
You claim that a deal is very close to closing when you're only in its initial stages. This happens all the time.

[40:17] And again we can be stainless angels rising above it all and condemning all of humanity but you realize that.

[40:28] If your grandmother hadn't chosen badly, you wouldn't exist.

[40:36] Thank you, Grandma. Thank you, Grandpa. Yeah, I'm so glad you chose the cat.
I'm so glad you chose the mean, ruthless, hyper-competitive guy.
Yeah, you gave me life. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.
And there's this weird thing, like, men understand that, whatever, we could go into the historical causality at great depth, but men understand that British people sailed to continent X and took it over, right?
Now, the people on Continent X, they know that if they whine to the men, the men will just be like, yeah, I guess you should have fought harder.
I guess you should have been better at developing technology.
I guess you should have whatever, whatever.
Whereas they know if they go crying to the women of the conquering tribe, the women will be like, oh, we feel so bad.
Here's our entire future. Here's our whole culture. Here's the resources, money, whatever you need, right? Because I feel bad.
Right and so but men men understand that if the inhabitants of continent x, had come to europe and had better technology or a better fighting spirit or a better will or whatever it is what would have happened.

[42:00] The exact same thing.
And we know that because, I mean, in the Dark Ages, in the Middle Ages, you know, people from the Middle East will sometimes complain about colonialism, and I understand that.
However, in the Dark Ages, the Middle Ages, people from the Middle East came and took millions of slaves from Europe.
In fact, to the point where Europe, which has a lot of fish and a lot of shoreline, they couldn't even live close to the ocean because they would just get grabbed and kidnapped and sold into slavery. Right.
And so there's this weird thing where if tribe A conquers tribe B, tribe B winds to the women of tribe A, and it fractures tribe A's strength.
However, the men of tribe A, if they conquer tribe B, they say, well, it was you or me, because if you'd have come over and conquered me, you'd have been happy to take all my resources.

Women's Perception of History vs Men's Perception

[42:52] Yeah. whereas so so men are like who has the most power but for women invent or are susceptible to this this weird moral fairy tale which is that the people who are conquered are always the victims who never ever would have done anything like that in reverse they're just innocent little lambs and children and babies and i don't know what it is but it's whereas men are like well yeah i mean That was pretty bad, and it would have been even worse if we'd have been conquered, because the whole history of the world is tribes conquering tribes and doing the most horrible things to their victims.
I mean, the black slaves that were taken to the Middle East, there's a reason why there's not a black population in the Middle East, because they were castrated. Mm-hmm.

[43:43] And like a good proportion of them died in the castration procedure, right?
So, yeah, it's all conquering. I mean, I think like European men who came to North America were like, oh, okay, so the indigenous population is practicing cannibalism and rape is a weapon of war.
They almost genocided the Comanches, you know, all this kind of stuff, right? It was pretty savage, right?

[44:10] And so they come and they're like, okay, well, I guess you can get mad that we put a stop to your cannibalism and your genocides and your rape is a weapon of war and all this kind of stuff.
And your horrible rituals which half-flayed children alive to get them to manhood or whatever.
And so men are like, yeah, we came and we interrupted some pretty barbaric stuff.
Yeah, we did some pretty barbaric stuff, but there was barbaric stuff happening already.
And so men are like, this is the way we see things. Whereas women are somehow susceptible to this weird fantasy that they were just peaceful, loving inhabitants, one with nature who used every part of the buffalo, you know, this kind of stuff, and just sang to their children and wove flowers into each other's hair.
And then brutal evil white men came along and just shot them for no reason.
You know, like this nutty stuff.
It's worse than a fairy tale because at least a fairy tale you know is fiction.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so the fact that you would look back and say, when I asked you, are you comfortable with the resources you have?
You say, well, my grandfather might have done some sketchy stuff, so maybe I don't deserve any of this money.
It's like, hello, everybody's grandfather did sketchy stuff.
Thank you. Everyone. You're right.

[45:28] There's no pure group, ethnicity, race, continent, country, tribe, you name it. There's no purity in history.
It was a bloody mess.

[45:39] And if your ancestors had played by the rules, you hold up, you wouldn't be here to complain about them.
I'm glad my ancestors got the girl.
I'm glad that my ancestors stayed alive. I'm not glad that they went and conquered the world. I think that was a huge waste and basically that was governments forcing people to do it.
So I'm not, I hate colonialism, I hate this paint the color of the world, your color and drape your map over every place in the world.
I think that's horrible and that's statism and that's power and so on, right? And, of course, the British Empire destroyed the life of the average poor to lower middle class person in England.
But here's the thing. We can sit there and say, well, my ancestors should have always been nice.
They should have always deferred. They should have never spilt their tea.
They should have never made slurping noises when they were drinking their soup.
They should have been lily white and pure and perfect.

[46:39] And it's like, well, then you wouldn't be here. And your countries wouldn't be here.
And your civilization wouldn't be here. and your culture wouldn't be here, and you'd be bound up in what would almost certainly be a more brutal culture.
And in particular, the Western culture has been by far the most positive to women.
By far! There's not even a close second.
Western Christian culture in particular has been very benevolent to women, very positive towards supporting and raising up women.

[47:06] And what is the reward of all of this kindness a female population that falls half in lust with every brutal patriarchal culture that's not their own it's completely bizarre, it's like the men who've treated their women the best, get complained about and attacked the most because when they're talking about the patriarchy they're They're not talking about African tribes.
They're not talking about the Aborigines in Australia or the Maoris in New Zealand.
They're not talking about the Pygmies in Africa or the indigenous populations of North America or the Eskimos.
They're talking about white Christian men in general.
That's the patriarchy.
And so here's the thing. How much are women encouraging men to treat them with deference and respect if, when men treat them with deference and respect, they end up giving away everything out of guilt?

[48:20] The fact that you have more in a relatively free market, it means for the most part, you probably traded for it and you were competent.
And yeah, you might have been tough. You might have been harsh.
You might have taken someone's idea who wasn't doing anything with it.
And then that person is going to complain.
Right? I mean, if your grandfather's friend came and whined, well, this guy took my idea.
It's like, were you doing anything? Why didn't you do it first?

[48:50] Well, I didn't have the money. Well, then go get the money.
Go get investors. Go talk to the bank. Go find people.
Go walk the streets. Go, you know, go find what you need.
I mean, when I wanted to start a business, I had to raise $80,000, and I pounded a lot of pavement to do so.
Yeah. So you're complaining that the guy took action and made money off something you weren't ever going to do anything with.
Which is like complaining about me asking the girl out when you had six months to ask her out and didn't even talk to her once.
No, but I was just about to. No, you weren't.
And I'm one for the bro code. Absolutely. If someone has a better shot at asking the girl out and they saw her first and they like her more, go for it, man. I will step aside.
But if you don't do anything, hey, forget that. that you know one of the reasons why the west was pretty aggressive and conquered a lot of other places which the west allowed a little bit more free market the west allowed a little bit more.

[49:56] Of a meritocracy and the west also had a certainly in england had a habit of putting to putting to death a lot of the violent psychotic crazy people in their society the west had a little bit more free speech the west had a little bit more intellectual inquiry which produced science which produced gunpowder which produced victory so you know maybe the other cultures maybe there's a price to be paid for eternally crushing down any potential freedom in your citizens, which is you're going to get conquered by a country or a culture that allows a little bit more freedom.
And again, this is not a moral judgment.
It's not a moral judgment. It's just a fact of nature and of human evolution.

[50:43] And I think if women embraced more of their own dark side, and yeah, women can be just as bad as men women fight by reputational damage which is unfair at least a man will just punch you a woman will just spread rumors that you have syphilis something like that right it's not fair it's it's really underhanded and so if women said like because i think women like to abstract themselves from the messiness of history and the the the brute will to power of most of human They like to abstract themselves from that and say, well, I am a stainless angel floating far above all of that.
What would I have anything? I'm going to sit here and I'm going to judge like God himself on high. I'm going to judge everything and everyone.
And in that way, I can feel that I am above the squalor and competition of human affairs, and I'm sitting on my white, cloudy throne, judging everyone and casting aspersions and feeling guilt as a sort of twisted, joyful masochism of virtue.
Yeah, it's true.
Your grandmother was probably as ruthless in her pursuit of your grandfather as he was in his pursuit of his business affairs.

[52:03] And she probably got lazy and entitled and that's why he dumped her.
Or maybe she only was able to attract him because of her youth and beauty.
Beauty did she end up learning about his business affairs and being a fantastic helpmate in his business probably not so she got the guy because of her youth and beauty and probably put didn't put much effort into providing value to him outside of youth beauty and raising his children so then lo and behold after she'd raised his children and was no longer youthful and beautiful he traded her in for a younger model of course he did live by the sword die by the sword live by by youth and beauty, get replaced for youth and beauty.

[52:49] So the first wives club, right? I mean, they put much more work into their appearance and their status and their prestige and where they sat on the social hierarchy rather than being incredibly productive helpmates to their husbands.
So it's like, I got the guy because I was young and beautiful.
But then don't you know, when the guy hit 45, he traded me in for someone more young and beautiful. It's like, well, of course he did.

The Biological Imperative and Relationship Insecurities

[53:19] Because what value will you bring into the table other than youth and beauty and fertility but if youth beauty and fertility is all you bring into the table, the guy is gonna have a very strong biological imperative to dump your ass because he can afford another family he can still have another family he can have two families instead of one you can only have one right 20 to 45 20 to 40 it's your fertility window, But the guy, you know, I could start another family tomorrow and I could have eight kids or 10 kids by the time I'm dead.
I'm not going to. I love my wife. Good luck with that, mate.
Right. So the women who were like, well, I got the guy for youth, beauty and fertility.
And then don't you know, that bastard traded me in for someone with youth, beauty and fertility when I no longer had it. It's like, hello.
You know, it's like a car saying, well, I was bought because of my new car smell and the fact that everything's new and shiny and perfect.
But then after he drove me for a couple of years, he just traded me in for another new car. It's like, well, that's the only reason you were bought, so of course you're going to get traded in.

[54:30] But yeah, this guilt, guilt for having resources, we have more, therefore it was stolen, we have more, therefore we exploited, and come on, do you think for a moment that if Europe had been conquered by Africa or Russia or China or the Middle East, that it would have been a gentle, warm, loving, renaissance embrace? race? No!
It would have been blood running in the streets and pillaging and slave-taking and rape and... Of course it would have. That's history.

[55:04] So that's my concern, is that you had a guy who obviously had no particular loyalty to you and had a grudge, perhaps.
You had a guy dig around your treasure.
That which we do not believe we deserve we rarely hold on to that which we do not believe we deserve we very rarely hold on to, and if you have guilt at resources there's going to be an unconscious drive, to rid yourself of those resources for the same reason that a murderer wants to dissolve a body to get rid of the evidence, of iniquity, of crimes, of corruption.
I mean, this was my speeches in Australia. Yes, we in the West, yes, there's been good, there's been bad.
I think overall there's been more net positives in the West than in other cultures.
But if all we do is think we're just the bad guys, we don't get to keep our culture. We just don't.
That which we do not believe we deserve, serve, we will almost never retain.
I mean, you know this. If you think the guy is too good for you and he's going to cheat on you, you get nervous, you get neurotic, you get clingy, you get needy, you get paranoid, you get difficult, and lo and behold, he dumps you.

[56:31] This is a fundamental question in life. If you've achieved any kind of success, did you earn it? Do you deserve it?
If you don't think you earned it and you don't think you deserve it, you won't get to keep it, whatever that thing is.
If you dump your kids in daycare and you don't really spend much time interacting with them as they're growing up, what happens?
You know deep down you don't really deserve your children's love, so then you fight with them as teenagers and you alienate them in their 20s.
Anyway, sorry, long speech. Tell me what you think.

Opening up to new perspectives and self-reflection

[57:21] Are you still with me? Hang on, I can hear you now, sorry.
Yeah, I was just saying, sorry, I gave a long speech, but I'm certainly happy to hear your thoughts.
Well you've certainly given me food for thought um particularly around feeling deserving um, and also like there's a sense when you spoke like I'd sort of I want to grow not balls that seems to it doesn't seem to be the right thing I am a woman, but some sort of.

[58:04] I mean, look, I've been a single mom for a really long time and I'm a homeopath, so I have this whole outlook.
And so you've given me food for thought on, you know, like I need to make fundamental changes.
Well, stop feeling guilty.
Yeah, stop feeling guilty for sure. Yeah, so, you know, when your kids were little, you had to be responsible for everything.
Thing and if something bad happened it was your fault but you can't take that too yeah and you said grow balls and i i get kind of what you're saying look as a man who's fairly assertive and aggressive and so on i have to embrace my softer side so that i can also be a good and loving husband and father right i mean i'm i have a wife i have a daughter i am surrounded by estrogen And so I have to incorporate the, I don't want to say feminine, but the softer sides of my potential.
And in the same way, women need to embrace some of the more hard-nosed and objective side of things.
And realize that because women are very susceptible to guilt and shame, that people are going to guilt and shame you into giving up resources or not protecting what's yours. Yep.

[59:24] And this is why i asked did your grandfather's friend work to protect what was his nope yeah okay so does he deserve it well ideally blah blah blah blah well no maybe your grandfather did a beautiful thing for the world maybe he hired a hundred people and gave them income and and and the ability to to have children and pay for their kids uh education maybe your grandfather did a wonderful thing by taking an idea that was never, ever going to get implemented and using it to create a business and create wealth.

[1:00:03] And maybe, just maybe, by dumping his wife when she was no longer young and beautiful, he taught his daughters to not just rely on youth and beauty.
I mean, it's really hard to know all of the threads that go on in this world, but just saying this guy is bad is pretty one-dimensional.
What happened to the father of your children?

Discussing personal history and choices

[1:00:33] Um, he's still around. I mean, he's still around. He remarried.
Not the same day. Okay, sorry. Let me be a little bit more specific.
Why are you not with the father of your children?
Oh, you're...
Because I had an affair.

Balancing Work and Marriage with Young Children

[1:01:00] Go on. I can't hear you again.
We had two small children and we moved countries and a very young guy came on to me. I was quite overweight and bored.
And I told him straight, I told my husband straight away. I couldn't not tell him. Wait, hang on. So a young guy came on to you.
Yeah. When you were overweight and bored with two small children, I assume your husband was working pretty hard to provide for his family.
Yeah. Yeah. We both were working. You were both working. Why were you both working?
Well, I would work when after the kids, I would go back to work, you know, I mean, I was a self-employed homeopath. Why would you go back to work? I don't understand.
No, but I was a self-employed homeopath, so I could work from home.
So it's not like I'm away.
No, no, but why would you go back to work? I don't know. You've got two small children and a husband who's working hard.
So why did you need to work?

[1:02:10] We just both worked. At least while your children were young.
I'm not saying never work again.
But when your children are young, why would you? I mean, because, you know, it's, you know, you've got two small kids, you're a mother and the kids are taking a lot out of you.
And then your husband comes home and he wants time with his wife.
He wants time with his family. He wants a love life, a romantic life, a sex life. He wants conversation.
And you're like, no, no, no, I have to go and do some homeopathic stuff.
Yeah. So why? Why would?
I don't know. I did. Well, you know, I mean, you weren't possessed by Betty Friedman.
Right so why no no i totally loved homeopathy as well i just qualified before i had my first child and um i uh i did want to get back into it i was totally absorbed by it and still am well but you understand how your husband views it that you prefer homeopathy to him, wow well isn't that the case i mean he wants to spend time with you and you're like no no no i'm I'm doing the homeopathy thing.
Sure. It's 21 years ago. I can't really remember, but yes, that could well be the case. Hey.

[1:03:25] And your husband was not assertive enough to say, I mean, okay, who took care of the kids when you were working?
Either him or my mom. So your husband would go to work all day, come home, and then have to take care of the kids because you were doing homeopathic stuff, right?
Yeah. Right. Did he ever say this wasn't ideal for him?
No. Did he ever say that he would prefer for you to spend more time with him rather than working?
Why do you think that, I mean, I know again it's a long time ago, do you think that he wanted to say that but didn't say it or he didn't care that you worked instead of spending time with him?

Early Years: Sweat Lodges and Native American Traditions

[1:04:24] Um i honestly don't know well wouldn't it be more complimentary to him i'm so sorry you were just about to say my apologies go ahead um um i remember it's so long ago now but anyway i remember when the kids were little that he was often he was very much into sweat lodges and and Native American Indian traditions.
And so he would often be away when the kids were very little and I wasn't working.
But I did, with my second son, I did go back to work quite quickly. I do remember that.
Okay, so hang on. So let's back up. So he was into sweat lodges and stuff, right?
Yeah. Now, did you say to him, Do you mind if I'm a little blunt and perhaps a little crude?

[1:05:20] I don't want you to go find your balls in some sweat lodge. I want you to throw me on a mattress and blow my back out, man of mine.
No, I didn't say that. Because, look, if he's going off to do some Iron John pounding a drum, tanning his balls in the late summer sun stuff in the woods, it'd be like, you know, I've got your masculinity right here, and you'd bend over a table or something like that, right?
Because you'd want to say to him, spend time with me.
What are you going to hang out with all these dudes for? Like, spend time with me.
Chat with me. Make love to me.
Yeah. No, we didn't really. We weren't able to communicate like that, it seems.
Well, did you want him to spend time with you rather than go to sweat lodges?
Oh, yes. I used to go in the end. I'd take the babies in a tent and just wait for him.
Okay. Okay, but did you say to him, spend time with me, not with these weird, big bearded dudes in the woods?
No. Okay. So you wanted that, but you didn't say it.

[1:06:30] Now he, I'm sure, wanted you to spend time with him rather than doing homeopathy, right?
Mm-hmm. And if you had communicated that to each other, maybe the marriage would have flourished.
Correct and how long did the marriage last and how old were you oh sorry how old were your kids when you got divorced they were two and four oh wow i'm so sorry that is pretty rough i'm sorry.

[1:07:10] It makes me want to cry as i tell you this oh it's desperately sad It's desperately sad.
But he stuck around, right? Your husband, and did he sort of roughly co-parent with you as a whole, or how did that go?
No, he was great. He was great. You know, we did the every other weekend thing, and, you know, yeah, I mean, obviously I had to work, and he worked, and, you know, he remarried quite quickly.
Yeah, like your grandfather.
Like my grandfather, indeed. So the question is, okay, how old were the kids when you had the affair?

[1:07:50] Oh, we got divorced. Literally, when I told him, he moved out.
That was it. We were done. Right.
Okay, so the kids were two and four when you had the affair, right?
Yeah. So a young guy shows some real interest in you, right? Mm-hmm.
And where did you meet this young man, or how did he end up in your orbit?
Oh, my word. darling we could go on for about 300 years with this story um i got some time i got some time, wow okay so my ex-husband was doing these courses with the native american indians and there was a course in africa to realign your dna and we came here with the little kids, to a karate farm where we decided to move to, and one of the karate I'm sorry, a karate farm?
Yes. Alright. Yes.
I became a black belt in karate and.

[1:09:02] This young chap showed interest to me when we moved there, very quickly after we moved there like within a few days, and sorry you said you were overweight at this point so you're overweight but this is just the beginning of your karate journey is that right correct yeah no i became very fit to be fair okay um but then um and then so then i told my husband and then we divorced hang on you were all at the same karate farm so your husband was there he was available he was was with you and the kids, right? Yeah.
So he wasn't like he was on an oil rig for six months or something.
Like he was right there in the karate camp with you. Yeah. So why? Yeah.
Why did you bang him, the affair guy? Why did you bang the young man instead of your husband?
And you said it, he paid attention to me. Right. The young man wanted you.
Whereas you and your husband were like, oh, you know, it's nice if we spend time together, but you know, I've got the sweat lodge thing and I've got this homeopathy and, and, and we, we, most of us, we gravitate to where we are the most wanted, right?
And if somebody, if somebody is not wanting us and something like person A is kind of indifferent in person B really wants us, well, we know how that plays out, right?

[1:10:32] So why?

[1:10:36] I mean, you knew what was going to happen, right? When you slept with this young man. Yeah. Okay.
So the young man is the same as your gold, right?
Or rather to say, the marriage is the same as your gold, right?
Because as I said, what we don't feel we deserve, we never hang on to.
You don't feel like you deserve the gold because your grandfather was a capitalist and you toasted the marriage, which must have meant that you felt you didn't deserve the marriage or the marriage wasn't enough or productive or something like that, right?

[1:11:21] Were you out of lust with your husband at the time? I assume so, because you had more lust for the young man, right? Yeah.
So, why were you out of lust with your husband?
I was bored. Because he was choosing things other than you, and you were choosing things other than him, right?
Yeah. And you weren't pushing through this to get back to your vulnerability.
Like, when you really want someone, you're vulnerable, right? Because they can say no.
And you and your husband, I get this sort of sense of this cool, elegant dance of distance, you know?
Yeah. And nobody's just willing to throw themselves on the ground and say, you know, I want you, I need you, I love you.
Be vulnerable and connect, right?
So why did you choose your husband in the first place? And you chose to date him, to get engaged, to get married, to give him two children.
Why did you choose him in the first place?

[1:12:24] He looked nice good looking yeah what else tall tall athletic interesting interesting to talk to, um autistic um so he had a lot of morally neutral positive qualities right, which is what i was talking about with your grandmother choosing your grandfather right, when did you first notice his emotional coolness back in the day when you were dating.

A Fascination with Something Different

[1:13:11] Sure that's so long ago i mean he was not a super passionate guy right he's not like stanley kowalski ripping his shirt off and screaming stella at the top of his lungs every time he can't grab your ass right so he's got to have some of the some of that distance has got to be there from early on right yeah no he was there was always some sort of thing that he had you know there was always some fascination with something or other that was different from you like that That he was interested in something else, right? Yeah.
We'd have to only, only he was doing it. It couldn't include the both of us.
And how did he make his money?

[1:13:51] He's a gardener. I'm sorry? That he was a landscape gardener then.
A landscape gardener, okay. And did he make good money?
Yeah. Yeah, he did. Yeah, it wasn't too bad, yeah. I mean, so your income wasn't needed for the family?
By the time we had our second son, it was more needed.
With the first son, I didn't go back to work quite so fast, but with my second son, I did.
Have you had, since then, have you had a passionate attachment to a devoted man?

[1:14:42] Not really well why do you think that is, i don't know would you like to know, yes please what is your relationship my friend great conversation by the way you're doing fantastically what is your relationship what is your relationship to what is generally called the patriarchy, um i don't like being told what to do.

[1:15:16] Um i've been independent a very long time you see, you say i don't know all right sorry okay alone yeah alone is a good way of saying it um.

[1:15:34] I don't know. I have lots of male friends. I get on with men very easily.
Don't care about male friends. Okay. Let me ask you this.
What does it mean to you, what would it feel like to be dependent on a man?
Oh, my God.
Dependent. I'll say it again. I don't care if you have an aneurysm. Dependent upon a man.
What does it mean to you to be dependent upon a man?
It seems very, very something I've got no idea what it means.
I don't know how to even... You absolutely know what it means, otherwise you wouldn't have an emotional reaction as you just did.
If I asked you the question in Japanese, you wouldn't know what it meant, and therefore you wouldn't have an emotional reaction.
You know exactly what it means, my friend. What does it mean to you emotionally to be dependent on a man?
It means that I have to be very vulnerable.
Yeah. And, yeah, I was like, put down my balls.

The Importance of Independence

[1:16:42] You want to be independent, right?
Not really. No, no, you do because you have been for the last 21 years, right? Yeah. Okay.
Now, do you know what a man hears when a woman says, I want to be independent, I don't want to depend upon a man?

[1:17:04] Here's what he hears I don't want you I don't need you I won't respect you, because, if you love someone you have to put your heart in their hands that's what love is, you know if my wife wakes up tomorrow and decides to not be married to me my life will be completely devastated for the next ever right until i'm dead, that's the vulnerability of love now she's in no doubt how much i love and need her i'm in no doubt about how much she loves and needs me, but you want to keep a distance, i knew that you were most likely a single mom when you told me that your grandfather was a a bastard and a thief, and your grandmother was an innocent victim.
Fair enough. Because that tells me that you sympathize with women and blame men.
Okay. Okay.

[1:18:21] Oh this is good stuff thank you well if i'm wrong i mean obviously this is my conjecture if i'm incorrect you can tell me if i'm going astray no but it does feel right because i wonder what it feels i know that i it's in thank you is what i'm trying to say see here's the thing here's the thing my friend and i mean this with enormous love and affection and in a very very positive spirit it and i say this to blow everyone's mind all right okay we need each other men and women, okay let me ask you this how much of what you use every day is made or maintained by men, um pretty a lot pretty much everything just about everything material right your electricity your your sewage your house your your garden implements like all All of this stuff, in general, is made and maintained by men, right?
So when women say, I don't need men, it's like, I mean, it's just a lie.
You absolutely can't survive without men.

[1:19:32] You and I couldn't. Do you think it's mostly women maintaining the technical infrastructure that allows us to have this conversation?
No. No, it's men. We can't even have this conversation without men.
Now, this is not to say that men are better than women. Of course not.
I mean, none of us would be here without women, right?
So, I mean, to be alive, I absolutely needed women.
And to be protected and kept alive as a baby and as a toddler, I needed breastfeeding.
I needed a houseproofing. I needed, you know, like I needed somebody to not give me frozen peas to eat to stick in my throat, right?
So, the idea we say, well, I don't, I'm going to be independent.

The Interdependence of Men and Women

[1:20:14] I don't need men. It's like, okay, well, try boycotting stuff that men make. Try that.
You won't make it through a day. Neither would I, by the way, if that makes any sense, right?
Oh, did you turn on the tap? Yep, that's men. Oh, did you turn on the light switch? Yep, that's men.
Oh, did you drive on a road? Yes, that's men. Did you drive on a bus or a car or a train or a plane? That's men, right?

[1:20:37] Did you eat food? Well, mostly men are the farmers.
And they truck drivers are almost all men getting that food to the city so the idea that women are like I don't need no man it's like oh come on it's just a lie like we can either admit how much we need each other, or we cannot admit it but it doesn't change the facts, you have is it two sons is that right yes right how did growing up without a father affect them or without a father in the house?

Promoting Eldest Son to Protect and Be the Man of the House

[1:21:26] My eldest son tried to be the man of the house and protect me and his brother.
You promoted him to that role. That didn't come from him. You promoted him to that role by dumping his father.
Yeah. He didn't just choose it, right? No.
In other words, if your husband had still been in the house, your eldest son wouldn't have done that, right?
No, exactly. So you promoted him to that role. And how did that play out for him?

[1:22:06] I think he and I are probably too close.
Because he became your substitute husband a little bit, right?
Possibly. I hope not. Well, you said he tried to become the man of the house, right? And you promoted him to that role, which means you needed a man of the house.
Yeah, but I would, when he tried to do that, say, I'm the adult, you're the kid. It's my story, you know.
Do your sons know why their father left?
I don't know.
What do you mean? they must have had they must have had questions when they got older why did you and daddy split up they've never asked those questions really yeah that means they're scared of the answer which means they probably know at least in their hearts yeah i mean of course you don't know if your ex-husband ever told them right yeah i don't know why haven't you told them, guilty, well I understand that it's not a fun thing to say but that's like saying well why didn't you get up to feed your baby when your baby was a month old it's like I was tired it's like well so you still have to get up and do it right yeah.

[1:23:35] What would be the consequences of telling them why the marriage ended?

The Illusion of Love and Lies

[1:23:49] I suppose that they don't love me anymore.
Well, what that means is that they only love you because you lie to them.
In other words, they don't love you, they just love an illusion.
That you've created by not telling them the truth.
And I don't know whether you should tell them the truth or not at all.
I have no idea, right? It's a bit beyond philosophy for me.
But I do know that if you believe that your children won't love you if they knew the truth about you, that that has an impact on whether you feel loved at all.
That's true and remember i mean my your relationship with your kids if you don't feel like you deserve something what happens you tend to lose it.

Embracing Vulnerability and the Need for Connection

[1:24:55] But i would say i mean you've you've still got a long way to go in this life right you've got decades and decades ahead of you, my suggestion is open your heart, be vulnerable, really need someone.
Don't try and go it alone. That's too much work. It goes against our natures. It's lonely.
And, you know, it just gets worse from here, right? Particularly for women, right?
I mean, you know all about, I mean, you've probably read these articles about the invisibility that women feel after they pass a certain age and so on.
Yeah, I would say, yeah.
That the person who stole your treasure is whoever taught you to not respect men.
That's who really stole your treasure, not the guy in your backyard.

The Power of Complementarity between Men and Women

[1:25:46] We need each other, men and women. We evolved to complement each other.
We evolved to fit together, physically, spiritually, emotionally, intellectually.
Men need women's sensitivity and women need men's assertiveness.
Together we are unconquerable, which is why the powers that want to conquer us work so hard to split us up and set us against each other.
And in general, they work to make women as unattractive as possible and they work to make women as resentful and suspicious as possible.
But without each other, we're not much of anything, I think.

[1:26:29] And also, I think what is important to talk about with your sons, I don't know about the cheating thing or not, I don't know, but I do know that if you've given your sons the impression that women don't need men, you know what that's going to do to their dating and marriage prospects, right? Right.
They're going to feel unworthy, extraneous, unnecessary, optional, barely tolerated.
And then they're going to repeat that same emotional distance their father had that contributed to the demise of your marriage.
How do I change that for them? OK, let me ask you this. And listen, great, great, great stuff.
And how do you think you have communicated to them that women don't need men?
Other than by being unmarried, or I guess largely single for 21 years.
How do you think you've communicated that to them?

[1:27:40] By having to work and run a house and, you know, pick them up from school and, you know, run a life, I suppose.
Sure, and so that's what you've had to do as the result of being a single mother.
But what has your attitude been towards that? Has your attitude towards that been, I can do it all, and it's fine?
Or has your attitude towards that been, this is desperately tragic, I shouldn't have to do all of this, I should be part of a partnership?
No, I just got on with it.
How, what has your dating history been since the divorce?
I was in a relationship for nine years and then a year and a half and then eight months.
What happened with the nine-year relationship? Was that when your kids were very little?
Yeah, they were about, they were a bit older, like three years older.

[1:28:45] And so did the guy move in? Was he like their live-in stepdad?
Yeah he moved in and didn't really work and just moved in really he didn't what do you mean he didn't really work he didn't really work he just he just sort of sat around so you, you got rid of the guy who did work and you got a guy who didn't work move in yep okay i had to work even more because now more people in the house yeah yeah for sure did he at least help help out with running the household and housework and raising the kids? No.
Why did you bring this man, this extra piece of furniture into your house?
I don't know, but it nearly killed me.
You do know. You absolutely know. We are not random beings, right?
Why was he in your house? I think I was just desperate to have someone with me.
What does with you mean? But what does with you mean if he's not helping and he's, in fact, adding to your burden? I know.

[1:29:53] I thought it was terrible that I was alone and I needed to be with somebody.
What was attractive or appealing about him that you had to move in with your kids?

Passionate but not contributing financially

[1:30:15] That he's a very passionate chap he was his french was very passionate it's very fast not about working he's not or contributing in any way shape or form it seems, okay so he was passionate was he handsome was he your type physically or how did that work not particularly my type physically Okay, so he was good-looking and passionate.
Okay. And did he not work the whole time, or did he have odd jobs, or how did that work? He had odd jobs. Like once a month he'd work.
Right. And how did your relationship progress over the nine years?
A lot of arguments. Yes.

[1:31:00] Yeah, just a lot of arguments, really. And it seems to me that he would have been a bigger impression or role model or imprint for your sons even than their own biological father, right?
Because he was around a lot more. Yeah.
And, see, I mean, boys, young men, what they do is they look at who gets the girls, and then they try to become that.
And so they'll look at this guy.

[1:31:35] Peppy layabout or whatever his name was they'll look at this guy and they'll say well he got mom he got the girl so consciously or unconsciously in in many ways they would try to model themselves after him or he would be a template that they would be drawn towards if that makes sense, yeah have your sons ended up as adults with a goodly amount of ambition and drive and, assertiveness or aggression and so on um aggression i'm not sure about assertiveness definitely not um drive i mean i'm there yeah they're you know they're getting out there and and they're doing their thing, and they're getting on with it, and, you know, traveling a bit now, and, you know, stuff's happening.
What about in terms of career and money-making and resource gathering and all that kind of stuff?
Well, that's actually what my eldest son's on a mission with.
He's just started. He's traveling at the moment. He's working abroad.
Right, okay. To earn money. He wants to earn money. He's had enough with the wages here. Right, okay. And your youngest?

[1:32:50] He's a baker, so he works very hard hours, I have to say.
And gets paid very little at the moment. So he's probably going to do a similar thing at the end of the year.
Right, okay. Go to the UK, yeah. Right.
And I know that they're still in their early 20s and so on.
Do they, I guess early to mid-20s, do they want to have kids?
Do they want to be fathers at some point? Or is it sort of on their mind at the moment?
So my sons haven't been living with me for about a year and a half.
They've actually been living with their father.
So the one that's the baker, I really don't know a lot about because he's not a great communicator and he's always tired.
When I go visit him, I don't see much of him. But anyway, he's going to come to spend time with me.
So I just hope to find out a little bit more then.
But my eldest son was here with me for four months.
And he spoke about wanting to have kids and wanting to get married.
And yeah, he spoke about that. And their dating lives as a whole?
I know nothing about my younger son. My eldest son had a seven-year relationship from 15 to 22, which broke his heart when they broke up.
He's told me he's had a couple of relationships, but I don't really know since then. What happened with the seven-year one?

[1:34:15] He was 15 when they met. um and uh yeah i mean they broke up a couple of times she wasn't sure and it was that you know coming um oh she didn't uh she didn't really need him, um i don't know they didn't seem to need each other really a lot of the time well isn't that the template we were talking about yeah exactly right right Right. Right.
Yeah. I mean, look, as a, as a parent, you're more experienced than I am and you raised two boys.
I just have one girl. So, you know, there's some overlap, but, you know, maybe not a huge amount, but, uh, in general, I think it's really, really important to talk about the mistakes that you've made and to not show the people that you care about how much you You need them.
I think it's one of the biggest mistakes we made. And it's completely understandable why we make that because it's vulnerable.
And you're saying to the other person, the majority of my happiness is in your hands.
And so we don't want to do that for fear of rejection or abandonment. I understand that.

[1:35:35] But in order to have a pair bond, you have to need each other desperately.
That there's no one else. That this person is the one.
And that your life is barely 10% of what it is without them.
That vulnerability that putting, your heart in somebody else's hand and taking their heart in your hands and working to protect that bond otherwise you're just, two ships who happen to be on the same course for a while, and there's not enough to keep you together there's not enough to bind you together because children are going to bind you together for sure i mean you're still in contact with your your ex-husband from 21 years ago because you have children.
So your children will bind you together. And if you want to have kids, man, you've got to bind each other with hoops of steel in your heart.
And there is just a certain amount of vulnerability, right?
You know, like, every night or two, I'll just turn to my wife and say, did you feel loved, treasured, and adored today?
I want to know. I want to make sure she knows.

[1:36:56] You know i mean if we make jokes about her walking out the door i say well you can't really get far with me sobbing and hanging onto your leg screaming and crying, that's the bond and we we all want to be loved and needed to that degree don't we, yeah it's somehow it somehow feels sort of scary though of course yeah it is absolutely scary It feels so wanted. It feels scary.
Of course, yeah. I get that, for sure.
I get that. But the alternative is to be not needed.
And that means we're disposable. There has to be at least one person in your life to whom you are indispensable.
Irreplaceable, unique, needed.
And of course you had that when you were a mother. Your children were very little.
But I think it's hard, it's almost hard in a way to feel like we fully exist, if there isn't someone to whom we are a great treasure.

[1:38:16] It's true. And you have a big, beautiful, passionate heart.
You're a great conversationalist. You have a staggeringly acute mind, able to make connections in like a flash of lightning going across, not just the sky, but between planets.
You have a huge amount to offer, and you should be treasured.
And you should be somebody's sun, moon, and stars that they guide themselves by, in my humble opinion.
And if you partake of that, you really partake of eternity.
If everything is disposable, everything is temporary.
It's like being Tupperware rather than a Ming vase, right? Exactly.
And not this sort of needy codependence where it's just like i don't want to be alone so i'm just going to grab someone to stuff my holes with so to speak like this maybe this french guy or whatever right but you know really yeah really feeling treasured if you can find that and and make that by being vulnerable by needing someone by risking rejection.

The Importance of Showing Need and Vulnerability

[1:39:35] You know i had a breakup or two where i was literally on my knees begging the woman to stay, now it turned out it was fine that she left in the long run i have nothing but pride for what i did though to to to really show someone how much i needed them how much i wanted them and then of course they're free to say yes or no that's that's their choice and it all worked out for the best but to wear your heart upon your sleeve to give your heart to someone after they prove themselves worthy you don't just find someone on the street or something like that after they prove themselves reasonably trustworthy and so on but yeah i think i think we really gotta, you gotta wind these tentacles around someone and let someone wind their tentacles around you sorry that's not the best analogy i've ever come up with it sounds like half an alien attack but Right.
You know what I mean, right? I quite like it.
It feels very encompassing. Right, right, right.
I mean, we're designed like trees to grow together, right? To become one trunk, one flesh.
And you can't do that and maintain this distance and this independence.
And here's the thing. I mean, you know how much you want to be needed because you gave up a whole marriage for it.

[1:40:47] For a fling with young Ralph Macchio or whatever karate guy was floating around.
Sorry, younger people won't get that reference. Oh, no, Cobra Kai, they might.
But, yeah, you know how much it is that you want to be needed? We all do.
We all do. But you've got to give it, too.
Otherwise, you're just taking.

[1:41:07] And the last thing that I would say, and I know we've had a long chat, but the last thing I would say is you might want to revisit things with your sons. Just ask them these questions, you know?
Yeah. Did I give you the impression that men don't need women?
You know, if you've talked to them about family history, you know, oh, your uncle was just a, your grandfather, oh, your great-grandfather was a bastard.
And your great-grandmother was an innocent, angelic victim and so on, right?
Did I give you the sense that, you know, it's the W-A-W war.
Women are wonderful. This is women are wonderful phenomenon, right? Which is that everybody praises women and feels free to take a long, slow dump on men.
And that's tough for sons.
Because they'll end up elevating women to near deific standards while at the same time feeling that they're just half trash that women put up with and that's not going to give them any.

[1:41:58] Strength or authority in a relationship yeah you are dependent on men and we're all dependent upon women all of us and we can either fess up and embrace each other or we can keep this salty distance and watch our entire society decay so does that does that i know we we covered a lot of a lot of ground here.

[1:42:19] But it's amazing it's amazing what you can get when you start with digging up treasure right yeah no thank you i mean really i was i just saw that this was you were doing this live stream and um i thought fuck it i'm just gonna ask i'm just gonna talk about the treasure good good i'm glad you did and listen what an honor it was to be part of this conversation with you i mean i really really appreciate that i know that uh you know you went through a lot of emotions we talked about some tough stuff and you just did magnificently and you do have such an enormous amount to offer that it would be a real shame if people didn't get to a man didn't get to appreciate and enjoy it so will you keep me posted uh call in at free domain.com c-a-l-l-i-n i hope you'll keep me posted about how you are doing but i really do uh really thank you for just a wonderful conversation today thank you so much as well look at that you lost some gold but you got something better all right thanks everyone so much for dropping by today free domain.com forward slash donate to help out the show have yourselves a wonderful day and And go check out social media review number four at freedemand.locals.com.

[1:43:34] Thanks, everyone, so much. Latula. Bye.

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