URGENT - Choosing my GF or formerly unfaithful wife and 4 kids
Topic Detail: I had previously called you within 8 hours of discovering my wife's infidelity while I was in 4th year of medical school back in 2020. In just a few sentences, you reminded me that she did NOT initiate force against me, and thus, I am bound by the NAP if it truly is a value I espouse. I put the weapon away, had my SIL watch the kids, and over the next few years, worked my way through recovery.
I went on a rampage with learning from dating coaches and joining a men's cult, which would eventually result in my resignation from medical residency due to professionalism issues. I was running my wife's solo OnlyFans and tripled my salary in the first month so I thought it was dumb to continue in medicine.
After attending an event in Colombia, I started a relationship with a very attractive young woman and began hyperfocusing on her, spending 80% of my time in Colombia and 20% with my family. This woman did not know about my family at first and after 2 months, she discovered the truth and I weaseled my way into maintaining the situation, even briefly moving EVERYONE together in the same penthouse while I tried to scale an advertising agency (which failed miserably). I have been torturing both of these women with dreams of a bright future for TWO YEARS, and only recently have woken up from the haze of my hypomania and psychopathy.
I am with my family for two more weeks before I likely make my final decision - if these women would even put up with me in the mean time. I am choosing between my reformed wife and 4 small children, living with my mother-in-law and rightly receiving smack talk nearly daily - or my Colombian girlfriend who is comparatively more profitable, obviously more attractive, and the lifestyle where I could possibly make a comeback at the expense of the formative years of my children. And yes, I would like to have children with her if I choose her, despite the hypocrisy in abandoning the 4 that I already have.
Roast me brother. I need it.
0:00 - Introduction
10:08 - Revisiting Infidelity
20:19 - Hypocrisy Unveiled
25:51 - Diving into OnlyFans
36:35 - Struggle with Morality
41:54 - Decision to Have More Kids
50:53 - Enticing the Beast: Unveiling the Addiction
1:03:38 - Visions of Redemption: Seeking Guidance and Clarity
1:19:58 - The Heart of Darkness: Confronting the Reality
1:31:23 - Struggling in the Abyss: Seeking Understanding
1:34:46 - Bargaining with Devils: The Cost of Corruption
1:46:36 - Facing the Truth
2:00:07 - A Cry for Help
2:08:01 - Seeking Redemption
2:16:21 - Embracing Change
2:23:41 - Allies with Conscience
The caller opens up about his turbulent past, including his wife's infidelity, involvement in a men's group, and moral dilemmas in his relationships. Stefan probes into the complexities of the caller's situation, questioning the consistency of his decisions and actions. The caller reflects on his emotional turmoil and seeks guidance on navigating personal growth amidst the tangled web of his reformed wife, four children, and a Colombian girlfriend.
Transitioning into the caller's journey from a church upbringing to managing his wife's OnlyFans account, he grapples with his identity as a wayward Christian. The intricacies of his marriage, previous infidelities, and emotional struggles come to light as he confronts the misalignment with his faith and acknowledges his hypocrisy. The caller's introspection delves deep into the impact of his choices on his beliefs and relationships, shedding light on the internal conflict he faces.
Delving further into the conversation, the caller unveils the intricate dynamics of his involvement with a woman in Colombia, marked by deceit, starting an OnlyFans account, and managing multiple relationships. Expressing remorse over the harm caused to these women, the caller seeks advice on navigating his ethical dilemmas and emotional turmoil. Balancing indecision between two hurt parties, the caller yearns for clarity and introspection as he grapples with the gravity of his actions and their repercussions on his relationships.
Shifting focus to the caller's struggles with addiction and infidelity, his acknowledgment of harmful behaviors and their impact on his family sets the tone for introspection. Past experiences with addiction to pornography and ongoing struggles with infidelity underscore the toll on his family, prompting a reflection on prioritizing his children's well-being. The caller seeks guidance on addressing these issues moving forward, expressing remorse and a desire to make amends for the harm caused, emphasizing the significance of family and accountability.
As the conversation unfolds, personal responsibility takes center stage as I confront the caller on his past actions, urging him to explore his motivations and moral compass. A challenging dialogue ensues, emphasizing the importance of virtuous actions over destructive paths, steering the caller towards owning up to responsibilities and avoiding validation for harmful behavior. Delving deeper, the conversation emphasizes the caller's need for self-reflection, accountability, and significant changes to lead a more ethical and fulfilling life, guided by honesty, fatherhood, and rectifying the harm caused by his actions.
[0:00] Hello, hello.
[0:00] Hey, how's it going?
[0:03] It's going as good as it can go.
[0:05] Going as good as it can go. Yes, yes, yes. Well, I suppose it's interesting to hear from you again. And a lot is going on. And I'll do obviously what I can to help.
[0:19] I appreciate it.
[0:21] So do you want to start by just sort of reading the message? We'll take it from there.
[0:26] Sure. um urgent choosing my girlfriend or formerly unfaithful wife and four kids, so i previously called you within eight hours of discovering my wife's infidelity while i was in fourth year of medical school back in 2020 in just a few sentences you reminded me that she did not initiate force against me and thus i'm bound by the non-aggression principle if it's truly something I espouse. I put the weapon away. I had my sister-in-law watch the kids. And over the next few years, I worked my way through recovery.
[1:02] But I went on a rampage with learning from dating coaches and joining a men's cult, which would eventually result in my resignation from medical residency due to professionalism issues. And I was running my wife's solo OnlyFans and tripled my salary in the first month. So I thought it was dumb to continuing medicine anyways. After attending an event in Colombia, I started a relationship with a very attractive young woman and began hyper-focusing on her, spending 80% of my time in Colombia and 20% with my family. This woman didn't know about my family at first, and after two months, she discovered the truth, and I weaseled my way into maintaining the situation, even briefly moving everyone together in the same penthouse while I tried to scale an advertising agency, which failed miserably. I've been torturing both these women with dreams of a bright future for two years, and only recently I've woken up from the haze of my hypomania and psychopathy. I'm with my family for two more weeks before I likely make my final decision if these women would even put up with me in the meantime. I'm choosing between my reformed wife and four small children.
[2:09] Living with my mother-in-law and rightly receiving smack talk nearly daily. Or my Colombian girlfriend who is comparatively more profitable, obviously more attractive, and the lifestyle where I could possibly make a comeback at the expense of my formative years of my children. And yes, I would like to have children with the Colombian if I choose her, despite the hypocrisy in abandoning the four that I already have. Roast me, brother. I need it.
[2:36] Yeah that's uh that's quite a tale it's quite a tale where do you want to start.
[2:43] Um i've been watching your show starting eight years ago and i haven't in the last four years but i imagine that you'd want to start or you'd find it helpful to find out how i'm actually extremely similar to my father and that my wife currently is really similar to my mother, but with some key differences uh based on the trauma she grew up with so that would probably be where i imagine you'd want to start um.
[3:18] I don't think so because if it's stuff you already know but it hasn't helped then it doesn't add much value if that makes sense like if you say oh i'm I mean, like my dad, but it hasn't really helped, then I think we're just saying stuff that we know isn't fixing the problem, if that makes sense.
[3:34] Oh, that makes sense.
[3:37] So you said the hypomania and stuff like that. Tell me what you mean by that.
[3:44] So I would notice that, so, um, my, I wanted to be a psychiatrist initially, but because of a lot of stress and I was like sensing the infidelity, but I wasn't sure it's just my gut feeling. Um, I wasn't studying as hard and, um, I failed a board exam, which was basically like patient care. And so I was a little more callous, and I wasn't sticking to the professional script, and I failed an exam that 99% of students pass.
[4:19] And that screwed me, and I was stuck in family medicine, which is very similar to psychiatry, just no poop-throwing and demons. humans but i noticed that from joining the marines after a bad breakup when i was 18 to even applying to med school randomly and getting in kind of because i'm good at studying to getting married to going to columbia randomly to joining this cult i always have these seasons of like a mild depression and then my sleep uh requirements they do go down and i start having grandiose thoughts and plans and like the most benign uh episode of this intense kanye west type energy was like i built a chicken coop from scratch and i'm from la so um you know i was training in.
[5:17] And so I was just like, I could build a chicken coop. And I spent three months, you know, learning about chickens and all this crazy stuff. But I've done other things that are just insane.
[5:30] And, you know, this mental illness stuff, like my father had some signs of it and I was aware of it. I was always thinking, oh, if I just am able to point myself towards something productive, then I can manage it.
[5:47] Sorry, what do you mean by something productive?
[5:52] Like studying for some board exam.
[5:55] Okay, but the problem that you have is not productivity, is it? Isn't it kind of morality? I mean, I'm sorry, I don't mean to sound dismissive. I mean, am I missing something? I mean, you're not calling me for tips on how to build a chicken coop. Aren't you calling a moral philosopher? Because it seems to me what's a little bit lacking is the sort of dedication to morality. Is that not the case?
[6:21] Uh yeah that seems like uh the more pressing issue i guess i.
[6:24] Think so yeah sorry i mean i i think so i think you called me because i mean you don't need help with productivity as you say you're good at studying you build chicken coops you make families you ran your wife's only fans which we'll get to so it i think it's moral virtues that you probably need a little bit bit more focus on does that make sense yes okay and it says it's just coming as a surprise to you.
[6:53] No um i was like over the last six months i'm like i heard um like an argument that most virtues like start with temperance and you know like without that you can't really have the others easily so.
[7:11] The hell does that mean temperance what does that mean to you i don't know what that means to you uh emotional self-regulation well okay that's a nice phrase but what does that mean it.
[7:21] Means that uh when something stresses me out or whatever i don't freak out i like observe and i respond appropriately instead of being impulsive or.
[7:36] Okay but what does that mean practically like you called me up uh four years ago because you were going to hurt your wife and And I said, that's a violation of the non-aggression principle, and you didn't hurt your wife, right?
[7:48] Correct.
[7:49] So that's a moral thing, this emotional regulation. Like, no, you can't hurt your wife. I mean, she cheated on you, but it's not violence, right?
[7:57] Yeah. Yeah. Wow.
[8:01] So, yeah. So help me sort of understand, like you were very upset that your wife cheated on you. Then didn't you cheat on your wife or help your wife in a sense, cheat on your children with the entire planet on OnlyFans?
[8:16] Yeah.
[8:20] And then you cheated on your wife with the Colombian woman, right?
[8:24] Yeah.
[8:25] And you cheated on your children with the Colombian woman, right?
[8:29] Yes.
[8:30] So, I don't know about this emotional regulation, temperance, whatever. I mean, how about you don't cheat on your wife?
[8:45] Yeah.
[8:46] I mean, it's a little simpler than, it seems quite complex what you're talking about. And I don't think it is that complex, right? I mean, you made a vow to your wife, right?
[9:01] Yeah. And I did like, like during the reconciliation, you know, I, I made another vow technically. And yeah.
[9:15] Sorry, what does it mean? What does it mean to make a vow technically?
[9:19] I mean, like, we didn't like remarry or whatever.
[9:21] Oh, you renewed your vows?
[9:24] Well, like, verbally.
[9:25] Yeah, you reaffirmed or whatever, right?
[9:27] Yeah, we reaffirmed and we took steps because, yeah, I mean, that's true.
[9:38] Okay. So she apologized for cheating on you, right?
[9:44] Yes.
[9:45] And she reaffirmed her commitment to be faithful, right?
[9:50] Yes.
[9:51] Okay. Sorry, go ahead.
[9:53] But I, like, I have documentation and timelines written of, you know, like, while we were in reconciliation, there were several, like, phases where I would get trickled through with more stuff.
[10:09] And I'm sure that this happened after reaffirming.
[10:15] Sorry, you said you got, I didn't quite hear that word, trickled through, I didn't quite, of more stuff?
[10:21] Yeah, trickled through. It's like when...
[10:22] Oh, trickle truth. Okay, trickle truth. So, wait, are you saying that she cheated after she... Renewed her vows.
[10:33] I'm not entirely sure on the exact timeline because this happened over about a nine-month period of reconciliation where we were formally in a program. But she was asking, she would leave small things in the neighborhood or something. thing and she would use a friend of a former affair partner to kind of check up on how he's doing because she knew that there was a sorry to check on on.
[11:06] Should check out on how who is doing.
[11:09] One of her former affair partners okay.
[11:12] So she was leaving small things around the neighborhood i'm not sure what that means and she was using a friend to check up on her former lover.
[11:18] She'd be like, oh, I still have this thing of my former lover. You're a friend. Can you bring it to him? She did that because she wanted the friend to basically pass a message to him. She wanted to check up on how he is keeping in touch. That did violate my idea of reconciliation. conciliation okay.
[11:49] So she was still in contact with an ex although obviously not sleeping with him at least your knowledge and that's a violation of the fidelity thing right.
[11:58] Yes okay.
[12:00] And then what happened.
[12:02] And let's see I so I started using scripture as a weapon and I would say things like Oh polygyny is permissible even though I knew like the The context was, you know, it's like after a war and like it was used to somewhat help women survive, you know, with having a husband in the scriptures. And it was mostly like the wealthy men with high status who would be getting extra wives and they had lots of responsibilities.
[12:45] Sorry, after you renewed the vows of fidelity, you started promoting polygamy?
[12:54] Basically, and this is related a little bit.
[12:57] But why? I mean, you just renewed the vows.
[13:00] It's related to the cult.
[13:01] I'm sorry?
[13:02] It's related to the men's group.
[13:05] Okay, let's just call them a group, if that's all right. Cult might be considered a tad prejudicial. Sorry, so is it the men's group that was encouraging you to promote polygamy? Yes.
[13:19] The group was more like you know if you are a high status man very red pill stuff you know like oh you have options and because basically to me only fans was like uh if it's your partner and she never started it on her own and she like was okay with it then this is like renewable energy basically it's like okay.
[13:46] So you're jumping all over the place you got to slow your roll I don't know what the hell you're talking.
[13:49] About.
[13:50] Okay, so suddenly you're going from polygamy to the men's group to OnlyFans. You've just got to slow down, man. Come on. Come on. Let me catch up a little here, right? If you want me to give you any feedback, then you've got to slow your roll, right?
[14:08] Yes.
[14:09] Okay. So let's go back to when did you join the men's group?
[14:15] Uh this was october of 2021 or okay and why did you join why did.
[14:28] You join a men's group i mean you have four kids at home right.
[14:31] Yes so.
[14:33] Why did you join a men's group.
[14:34] It was a telegram group and it was like advertised as like oh this is the ultimate networking group but basically there's a very infamous leader and he and his brother started this group and i would learn kind of how it was initially a cash grab but some members wanted to like make it more so they started building a lore around some stuff but it was basically to promote masculinity and okay so So.
[15:06] Sorry, why did you want to join a group to promote masculinity?
[15:12] Because I felt like, you know... I listened to one of your calls in the past about how a lot of midlife crises for men is like, I feel like I can have a round two or like a do-over. and um i'm not blaming it on mental illness exactly but it's like the timing was similar to when you know i would i was in a grandiose mental state and.
[15:52] Sorry i just want to make sure i understand and follow your thinking so is it true you like you got into the middle of your life like you were in your mid-late 30s or your early 40s and and your body is maybe saying let's Let's try a round two, and this leads you to a telegram group. Is that right?
[16:07] Basically.
[16:10] Okay. So why did you join the telegram group, though? So saying I was having a midlife crisis doesn't really, like, what was the telegram group supposed to solve? Yes.
[16:23] Because, for example, it's like with my peers, you know, we're nerdy dudes in L.A. And like my brother is, you know, he was like unemployed for, I think, seven years by that point after being in the military. He plays video games all the time. He likes anime too much. And I felt super alone. and you know I spent a lot of time with the wife and two daughters at the time and like in the hospital like while we were undergoing training there was a lot of like, kind of like feminine things being taught and like very woke stuff that I didn't agree with and at that time this group seemed extremely like i could find the brotherhood i lost from the military so.
[17:25] Did you feel less of a man because you were raising daughters.
[17:30] No i felt less of a man because it's like no matter how good my marriage could be and like no matter like the forgiveness thing I felt like like some part of me will always think my wife is with me because I'm her best like I'm only I'm like I'm her only option you know she was like 29 and I know like women especially in LA can get a new partner at any time but I really had the belief that you know I'm not her first pick and And that was something that was important to me.
[18:10] Sorry, your concern is that you're sorry, you've given me like 15 different reasons here. I'm just trying to narrow them down. So your perception is that you are not your wife's first pick.
[18:22] Yes, like, basically.
[18:23] Okay, well, but of course you're not. I mean, of course you're not. Nobody is the other person's first pick. I mean, our first pick would be some supermodel with an IQ of 180. Like, you know what I mean? Like, whatever fantasy thing. So, everybody settles, right?
[18:43] Yeah, essentially.
[18:43] So, I'm trying to sort of understand what you mean. I mean, like, unless you are the very best guy in the world, the very best guy in the world, that would be who women would pick, right?
[18:58] And even then, it's like not all the chicks will be into that.
[19:01] Well, yeah, let's just say, even if we can imagine that women could all agree on Bob over there is the very best guy in the world, well, Bob can only have a wife, right? I mean, I guess he could do some polygamy thing, but even if he has half a dozen wives, the other two billion women have to settle, right? Or four billion women, right?
[19:22] Yes.
[19:23] So I'm trying to understand what you mean when you say, I'm not my wife's first choice. Well, of course you're not. And your wife is not your first choice, right?
[19:33] Yeah.
[19:35] So what do you mean?
[19:37] I mean that, It's like, I feel like she's only with me because we had kids and it would be easier to put up with me and she knows me and I'm predictable. And I was a guy who previously, possibly, we'll never know now, but it's like I was someone who would be monogamous. miss um because i was sorry i'm just trying to.
[20:10] Lever my jaw off the floor when you describe yourself as predictable.
[20:13] Are you.
[20:14] Fucking kidding me brother predictable.
[20:18] Okay so do you.
[20:20] Think i was expecting this email oh man this guy is so predictable i bet he joined a cult i bet he ran his wife's only fans.
[20:27] Yeah i.
[20:29] Bet he got a banged of a colombian woman and is trying to create a harem like you think you're predictable are you kidding me so.
[20:38] Back in the good old days um back in the good old days i would spend 10 hours playing league of legends, and somehow fitting in med school studying and i would study and the ass printed on my chair would be insane and yes i would barely see the sun i would be insanely pale like you wouldn't be able to guess my true ethnicity because of how little son I had. And so, yes, in that way, I'd say I was predictable. But that changed a lot. Like the turning point where that flipped and I became, I guess a lot of people would agree now that I'm outrageous is when I discovered the infidelity.
[21:29] So you said your brother's kind of nerdy. Were you kind of nerdy and then you became attractive and you were just like a kid in a candy store? Is it sort of that old story?
[21:40] Um, no, like I'm, I'm five foot seven. Um, I am of a race that would be considered like lower SMB. Um, you can tell by the way I talk, probably that I don't necessarily gel with a lot of women, but the ones that do like me, they like me a lot.
[22:05] And what is your race?
[22:07] Um, I'm Filipino.
[22:09] Filipino. Okay.
[22:13] And so it's not that i was attractive it's that um i'm intense one-on-one and you know i'll when i talk with a woman i will talk about like oh what kind of dream did you have about me last night and she'll say oh i was dreaming that i was running away from someone and you know it's Stuff like that. And I know how to have fun on dates and stuff like that, but I wouldn't say there was anything like, oh, I flipped and became attractive. It's just I was a church boy, and I hyper-focused on my wife, who I married when I was 20.
[22:56] Okay, so you had some virtues or morals from church, right? From Christianity.
[23:03] Yes.
[23:03] And what happened to those virtues and morals? I mean, are you no longer a Christian?
[23:15] You're not going to believe that I feel like I am a wayward one, and I feel like I'm not behaving as a Christian, and that...
[23:31] Sorry, are you still a Christian?
[23:34] Okay, I identify as one.
[23:36] Oh good lord man don't make me come over there with tooth pliers all right it's kind of a yes or no thing don't don't racist.
[23:43] Without her even more.
[23:44] Don't don't i'm sorry what no.
[23:47] I have braces on so like if you were to yank.
[23:49] Yeah even worse so so so now you really have to answer are you a christian yes okay thank you why i don't know why that's so tough i mean i'm not i'm not pontius his pilot here, right? I'm going to throw you to the lions. Okay, so you're a Christian and how do you square that with, say, running your wife's OnlyFans account?
[24:12] That is the biggest, hypocrisy thus far, I think. Like, the one that is, well, assuming that there's validity in the polygyny thing, that is the only one where it's like, that's a hard no. Like, as a Christian.
[24:32] Well, okay. So, we'll get to that. So, I'm still trying to figure out why. So, you were in medical school, then you dropped out of medical school. I mean, you left because of the professional reasons. Were they to do with the only fans or something else?
[24:47] Like, I was apprenticing in a hospital.
[24:49] Mm-hmm. And then you were kicked out for professionalism, right?
[24:57] Basically, yeah, I had professionalism issues. And because I was doing OnlyFans at the same time.
[25:03] I knew... When you say you were doing OnlyFans, that's a fairly ambivalent statement.
[25:10] Managing the accounts. Yeah, yes, yes, correct. Yeah, so...
[25:14] So, sorry, you mean that you were managing your wife's OnlyFans, not performing in OnlyFans?
[25:21] Correct.
[25:51] Okay, got it. Running your wife's OnlyFans was after being kicked out of residency, right?
[25:57] It was during the same month. Okay, but after?
[26:01] Is it before or after?
[26:03] It was before.
[26:04] Oh, so that's why you were kicked out, right? So you started running the OnlyFans, and did this come out of the Telegram group?
[26:12] It's strongly related. If I didn't join that, this wouldn't have even been a thought.
[26:17] Okay. Okay, so, and we don't have to get into the causality of it, so you join the men's group, and through that you begin to advocate for polygamy and spin up your wife's OnlyFans. Now, I assume that she didn't have the OnlyFans before you suggested it, is that right?
[26:39] Correct. Okay.
[26:41] And how did she receive your thoughts of this as a way of making money?
[26:53] So during our reconciliation a lot of some of the reasons where she not exactly justified but she said you know it didn't like she felt unattractive she didn't feel alive or like she didn't feel super energized about life i was um always gaming and stuff and she was alone and And she's a pretty young Asian woman who was in LA. So she would get attention. And so I was thinking.
[27:26] Sorry, by Asian, do you mean East Asian or Filipino or something like that?
[27:30] Filipino.
[27:30] Filipino. Okay. Got it.
[27:32] Yeah. Filipino. And I knew that there's something about the Filipino branding, which like white dudes go crazy. They think it's like the perfect wife. So with all these factors, I was like, Hey honey, uh i'm tired of making resident pay you know i'm working 60 to 80 hours a week and we have spending problems like you you order takeout even though we're technically like 130 above the poverty line uh while i'm in residency and yes there was a part of me that was kind of leveraging her guilt to have her be okay with doing this.
[28:16] Sorry, her guilt about what?
[28:19] About cheating.
[28:20] Oh, cheating. Okay, got it.
[28:23] And so I was like, hey, we're going to do this under an alias. The odds of you getting discovered are actually low because there's so many models and we haven't got caught thus far. But I was just... you know i i was saying this would solve a lot of problems and it could introduce some new ones but i was like this is a decent calculated risk i'm sorry but the i'm.
[28:52] No expert on this but isn't there a sort of reverse image search thing that can happen to identify people.
[28:59] So at this point because i was like very um i i was like aware of a lot of apps and technology and stuff so uh we would use an advanced ai like face filter which would change her face enough to where the reverse image search is never correlated to her like personal stuff okay got it, so overall and like i would use proxies to like hide her like location and stuff like that so um.
[29:32] I mean but you would be identifiable through the payouts wouldn't you i mean i'm not saying into the general public.
[29:38] Uh yeah yeah that would be a thing because like kyc is super important right okay all right so you.
[29:46] Convince your wife the mother of your four children you had four children at this point is that right we.
[29:53] Actually started when she was six months pregnant and through my camera work i would always choose angles because she had large lactating breasts which we would never show the lactating but we were able to hide the belly because she like after every pregnancy she would return back to her regular weight so she was extremely pregnant when we started and like this added to the whole like this is too this is too simple like to make stupid amounts of money because in the first month we made 17 grand and you know on the resident salary that was like it was only 4k per month so it felt it felt stupid to continue medicine because like even our photo shoots we'd have a suitcase we the kids would be sleeping at nights and you know we'd have a babysitter and we'd go to an airbnb which was like 200 bucks maybe and we would do eight hours of photo shoots and like video stuff and i'd be like wow that's so hot or like you're very attractive and all this stuff and that made her feel really good and And it felt like, you know, oh, we're doing naughty stuff together. And like, she felt young again and I felt young again. And if it was great and like, um, I have a.
[31:14] I'm sorry, who was taking care of your kids at this time?
[31:17] A babysitter. Okay. Like someone that we, and this wasn't, so they're a bit.
[31:21] Please don't, don't, don't get into the geography of things if you don't mind. Sure. Okay.
[31:26] No problem.
[31:29] Okay, so you crank up the OnlyFans, and you're making some coin, and then you get kicked out of residency because of the OnlyFans stuff, right? Right.
[31:39] Because I knew that it's like I wanted to preemptively prevent like a scandal because like, let's say for some whatever reason, someone would find out and like the medical board somehow found out they would they would very understandably be concerned. if I had any female patients or something like was I trying to recruit them or something like that would be a very reasonable.
[32:09] Okay so you weren't caught because I was trying to sort of figure that out but you decided to quit because the money coming in from OnlyFans was so good is that right yes.
[32:18] And I was like and I was also thinking I was also in the grandiose thing but also it's like if I figured this out like kind of casually in a month it's like I I knew I could make money later uh.
[32:33] You mean using the same marketing oh yeah okay and then you tried the ad agency thing but that didn't work right correct okay yeah because i mean technically it's not you making money right i mean obviously you're involved but it's the mother of your children showing her flesh right correct okay and did you have any qualms so just out of curiosity did you Do you have any thoughts that maybe this wasn't a great thing to do or that it might have negative effects on your... I mean, whether you're caught or not, as a Christian, right, that doesn't matter, right?
[33:11] Correct. I mean, you're caught.
[33:13] Right? Like, why are you caught as a Christian?
[33:18] Because God sees everything.
[33:20] Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I'm sort of trying to figure that out, like the idea that, well, we haven't been caught and, you know, there's no amount of AI that fools God, right? correct so what does this mean.
[33:32] This means i uh among other things you know i was an insane hypocrite and i my actions show that i'm not really christian.
[33:43] No no i mean that's it's i mean obviously that's true but what was your thinking i mean were you thinking this is a sin and i shouldn't do it was there any, Was there any tussle in your mind about like, gosh, really, I shouldn't. Were you wrestling with it or did you just like, woohoo, off we go?
[34:06] So I guess like, I mean, over the last couple of days, I was thinking about.
[34:12] No, no, no, no, not over the last couple of days when you were thinking.
[34:18] Yeah, at the moment. So at the moment, I felt like none of that. i didn't even feel like oh this is my wife like other guys are seeing my wife i want to guard this like this is just mine i wasn't even thinking that i was i mean do you understand that.
[34:34] Your first call with me about how terrible it was that another guy saw your wife naked.
[34:43] Like i i now you've got 17 000.
[34:46] Worth of fat merchants all over your wife right yeah.
[34:50] I think that what.
[34:51] The fuck man help me understand.
[34:54] This no i think a part of it was like i was like well she chose to like be defiled like by men in real life and this is just virtual, and i that i know that there is some element of that so.
[35:14] Because she cheated on you she owes you $17,000 from masturbating men. Is that right?
[35:22] Not exactly. I think it's more like that negated the normal qualms of showing it or whatever.
[35:32] Oh, so when you were renewing your vows, that was just bullshit, right? because you still held the resentment and you still wanted to make her pay and you still viewed her as defiled like there was no renewal of vows really wasn't that that was just noise then wasn't it if i understand this correctly and.
[35:48] I think that that's part of why i'm calling now like.
[35:53] I'm calling still doesn't answer the question though okay so when you say well i still viewed my wife as defiled and and i might as well profit off her defilement like this there's a lot of rage in that, right? And a lot of hurt, a lot of anger, and a lot of shame. So, the renewal of the vows wasn't particularly heartfelt, right? Because the renewal of the vows is has got, you know, I love you again, we're renewing our vows, we're starting with a fresh page, a blank slate, right? And that wasn't happening because you still got this I can rent my wife's boobs out for money because she cheated on me or something, right?
[36:31] Yeah. yeah.
[36:36] Okay so were you going to church or did you have any particular interaction with Christians over this time period.
[36:45] So in the Midwest we were, going here and there and it's very different than in LA they're actually a bit more professional like almost, the church is in the Midwest west they're like more mega churchy but like not not to the level where you just get lost in the crowd they were just super professional okay so you what you.
[37:13] Had a church community but it was kind of a mega church.
[37:15] Yeah so we didn't connect super intimately compared to in la where the church is like less than 100 people and okay did you.
[37:24] Pray over this question of only fans.
[37:29] Not over that well.
[37:32] Wouldn't that be a fairly important thing to get god's advice on.
[37:38] That that didn't cross my mind like honestly it didn't cross.
[37:41] Your mind to pray.
[37:43] No not about only fans it would be like man.
[37:46] Come on come on you're smart enough to listen to this show.
[37:50] No but like honestly it's like this was around the time i actually stopped watching the show because i was oh you stopped listening to the show.
[38:01] And next stop only fans.
[38:02] No no no no um it's like stop watching the show dating coaches then men's group and then And, yeah.
[38:15] Sorry, I meant to ask that too. What is the purpose of men's coaches for dating, men's dating coaches, for a man who's already married?
[38:27] The purpose is to help a rage monster go on a rampage and get revenge.
[38:35] Okay, so did your wife know that you were still enraged at her and wanted to cheat on her?
[38:42] Yes.
[38:43] Okay, and so did she go ahead with that or did you convince her on the polyamory stuff or how did that go?
[38:50] No, I said, I said, like, we had two kids. We can divorce now. While I go to med school, and you can fight me if you want. I will do everything in my power to destroy you if you actually try to fight me.
[39:09] I'm sorry, sorry, because the last I heard about the marriage was you renewed your vows. And how did you get from renewing your vows to let's divorce?
[39:19] Divorce no this uh the renewing was after like the renewing was um that was about six months after starting the medical training okay we're like um the the apprenticeship okay.
[39:33] So the threatening to divorce and destroy her that.
[39:36] Was before i because of the cheating yes Yes.
[39:41] Okay, and she said, I don't want to get divorced, and she wanted to continue, right?
[39:50] Yeah, she said, I don't want to get divorced. I want to keep our beautiful family together. I will not do anything like this again, which she violated several times.
[39:59] Sorry, and when you said she violated, do you mean because she left the message in the neighborhood and was checking up on the whereabouts of an ex-lover, or was there something else?
[40:09] No, I don't. I think it was maybe three weeks after. I knew that it is impossible, like that her addiction biochemistry would have like recalibrated. So I knew she was doing something. But she said, I'm going to take this very seriously. and in less than three days I found out the guy came over to our house where our kids were while I was gone and he gave her like something and, he kissed her and she was okay with it and she didn't tell me and there was other times where, like later I would find out like oh he would regularly come over to the house and they would have sex while the kids are sleeping in the same place less than two feet away, like the kids are sleeping and they're having sex there.
[41:14] Okay, so the infidelity commenced shortly after you found out about it, but before the renewal of the vows, and then some infidelity or at least some untrustworthy behavior continued after you renewed your vows. Is that right?
[41:28] Yes.
[41:29] Okay, and so you felt still betrayed, and so you're like, I'm going to start sleeping around too. Is that right?
[41:38] Yep, I was doing my bucket list.
[41:43] Oh you mean like the sexual things that you wanted to do or something like that.
[41:47] Yeah the stuff i missed out on because i got married at 20, okay so.
[41:55] Now you're both cheating on each other like crazy and you're trying to raise these two kids and then you decide to have two more is that right yes, and why did you decide to have more kids.
[42:14] So this is, voodoo wishy-washy weird crazy psycho stuff but like in a fit of rage you know I told her, I'm going to put a boy in you yes there's some jokes you could put there right now but it's like I was like, I know that's retarded but I wanted a boy, and so the third was a boy and that's all there was in that was the entire thought process sorry I don't understand Then.
[43:02] I mean, why would she, I mean, the marriage is on the rocks. You're both cheating on each other. Why would you have another baby at all?
[43:10] Because we were both emotional wrecks.
[43:14] No, okay, whatever, right? But they're still thinking, right? You're not possessed, right? There's still some thought behind the actions, right?
[43:25] Minimal.
[43:27] Okay. And what were the minimal thoughts? I want to send them in.
[43:33] So. I was. I was thinking. So like. I was certain that. It was like her fertility window. Because I tracked that. And. Or like it was as close as I could. Like I'm. I used to track it with hormones. and with the temperature at the same time and like after three years of this like our kids are very like timed um to be about between 15 to 18 months apart and, like part of me was like i had a feeling that i would separate from her and like even my sister now was saying like my reasoning for this is retarded because I was like oh if she has three kids it'll be harder for her when we eventually break up but my sister was saying that oh but wouldn't it be harder for you too since you have to pay more like isn't that like and more emotional pressure and like that's retarded and I'm yeah but that's what I was thinking.
[44:47] And her thinking, do you know what that might have been?
[44:51] Her thinking, I don't know how relevant this might be to providing context, but during reconciliation, I became hyper-obsessed with the idea of narcissism. And I would read a bunch of things and listen to YouTube videos. I think Dr. Romany is one of the people, and she talked about covert narcissism a lot. And I felt like that was a fairly accurate diagnosis for her. And it would explain a lot of the avoidant behaviors she would have and how, like the conflict avoidant. So if she ever had a problem with me, she would never bring it up to me. And if she ever had a problem, like a general one, she would look to solve it on her own, which it could be okay. But when it's like, I need attention and validation because my husband's ignoring me, she sought it from other men. And so I think that like her thinking was kind of like, I want to avoid a problem. And I think that if I agree to this, he will accept me or he'll eventually forgive me.
[46:00] Right. Okay. Got it. Got it. Okay. So then you had another kid.
[46:10] Yes.
[46:12] Were you looking for another son or what do you think was happening there i.
[46:16] Was looking for another son and i had less of a feeling less of a sadistic rage feeling it was a lot less but i was also thinking now she's really going to be screwed if we break up.
[46:35] Uh okay so was it sort of like half vengeance still i'm trying to figure out if and when you ran out of vengeance against your wife or hatred.
[46:48] So, based on the timeline of everything, I tried to move everyone together at the four-month mark of the relationship with the Colombian. And it is as retarded as it sounds. Big penthouse, six bedrooms. I'm there. There's another guy, but he's in the far room. and then sorry who's the other.
[47:19] Guy and not not anyone involved.
[47:21] One of the business partners yeah one of the business partners and.
[47:25] Which business is this.
[47:26] The advertising agency oh.
[47:29] Sorry i thought that failed.
[47:30] Yes uh this is before that failed okay.
[47:34] Got it so.
[47:36] This is like four month mark of the time with the columbian and i literally like i'm in the room i'm in one room with the wife the kids are in like two other massive rooms like in between and then the girlfriend is in another room and i bounce between the two rooms and you know oh obviously for the first like two days everyone's trying to like get along kind of but then obviously slowly uh the The girlfriend is like, what the fuck is this? Like, I need to fucking, I'm going to go back with my parents.
[48:15] Well, she didn't know about your wife and children initially, right?
[48:19] Yeah. And she, as gracefully as a girlfriend could accept this, she was like, I think she was too weirded out for her brain to activate and break up with me.
[48:34] Uh-huh. so that's why she came and tried to work things out yes all right and so what happened then.
[48:45] So i don't remember exactly when but i think within the month i the girlfriend was like she was saying like it looks like you are reasonably happy enough or like at least when you're dealing with the kids you are cooperative enough with your wife to the point where I'm confused why you would go to Colombia and do things and, like why would you cheat on her?
[49:15] Sorry, why were you in Colombia?
[49:19] Because there was an event hosted by this men's group and they were teaching something where it's like, you go to a club and you invite four or more women to the same place at the same time. And you use the chaos and the alcohol and the noise to station them in different areas of the club. And you're having a vibe check first date with all of them at the same time because it's efficient. sorry what the hell.
[49:50] Is a vibe check.
[49:51] It's it's like where it's on the first day and you're like oh this guy's cool i learned a small amount about him but he doesn't seem like a serial killer so the point of this type of date is not to try to sleep with the girl on the first date it's to, like like with a low investment just be like am i getting catfish um is she like my type um is.
[50:18] She easy to control is she stupid.
[50:20] Possibly yeah yeah possibly got it got it yeah is.
[50:24] She easy to manipulate is she does she have a strong sense of self and identity and virtue or is she easy.
[50:31] To push around.
[50:31] Okay got it got it.
[50:32] And and basically the point of this was like it was like a four-day bonanza where it's like four nights of clubs or like some place and we were were supposed to like practice this like practical application and i'm sorry where are you getting.
[50:48] The money for this is this still off your wife's of uh.
[50:51] Yes and crypto okay.
[50:54] So some crypto and some of your wife's only fans money is being used to fuel you picking up girls in columbia.
[51:02] Yes okay.
[51:04] And how did you even meet oh you met the girls through the men's club right.
[51:08] No so like you know We pay for the event ahead of time, and... We were given instructions and some training ahead of time. And two weeks prior, they said, download Tinder, move your location to Bombay, set up the dates, talk on WhatsApp. Here are some general guidelines, blah, blah, blah. And the first girl that showed up was the eventual girlfriend. And when I saw her, I felt like I was reverse catfished because one of her Tinder photos, she had her mom. It's like she had like dumb filters, which showed like she had no experience. And I was like.
[51:50] Sorry, what is a dumb filter?
[51:52] It's like the there's a filter where it's like you have the picture of the girl and it overlays like a crumpled paper, like semi-transparent thing. So it looks like, oh, this is a photo of her like physical photo that was crumpled. like which is weird all right but basically to me it was like oh she's not a pro she's not showing uh pictures of her with like an iphone you know because that's rare over there um or she's not in fancy hotels she's not yeah she didn't rent that pretend.
[52:28] Plane seat or whatever yeah okay.
[52:30] Yeah i was like this is a wholesome girl probably who she's never even been.
[52:35] To dubai Why for the weekend? Okay, I got it.
[52:37] Yeah, exactly. So she shows up and I knew about the scale of money over there. And she invested, I think, $50 just to show up to the date. And that's a lot over there. I think household monthly income is $350 a month.
[52:57] I'm sorry, and why did she pay $50 to show up for this evening?
[53:04] Because we were texting back and forth every single day for the like two weeks prior to meeting.
[53:12] Right. But why did she why didn't she just show up and not pay?
[53:18] Um because like i noticed that there's a pride thing over there where they normally want to pay like at least their transport but basically she net she didn't even have high heels and she didn't have a dress and so some of the days prior she was showing me well i'm i'm buying a dress like is this okay or like because she didn't know like she never went to a club supposedly and Oh.
[53:44] So she doesn't have a father, is that right?
[53:47] No, her father is like a super normal roofer.
[53:49] Oh, and her father is not having any qualms about any of this or giving her any advice?
[53:56] No, because prior, as far as she knew, it's like, oh, there's this foreigner who's gotten good photos because he was coached in how to have a good Tinder profile. profile and he like messaged her his spanish is decent because he took it in high school and remembered a lot of it and so she was like.
[54:16] Why would she why would she want to get involved with the foreigner i'm sorry i'm i'm this is a very foreign world to me so you know lead me through it like a lost little lamb since i am but yeah why why would she want to i mean was she hoping to get married and go to the states or some other place or no um why is she getting involved with a foreigner?
[54:38] Because my profile said I was a doctor, because...
[54:43] Oh, so you're lying. You're catfishing. Oh, this is why you said you think you got reverse catfishing.
[54:47] Well, I actually, I think, yeah, I still was a physician, and technically, I still have the title even now. It's just, I don't have a license to practice, and I don't want to, but I still have the title.
[54:57] Okay, but just out of curiosity, when When women hear that you're a doctor, what do they think?
[55:05] They think I work in a hospital.
[55:07] They think you make money as a doctor. Right. Yeah. So, I mean, don't give me this technically stuff, right?
[55:14] Yeah. Okay.
[55:15] So you lied.
[55:17] Yes, I lied to boost my perception to them as like an ideal partner.
[55:25] No, I understand why you lied. Yeah. I mean, I understand you had a motive to lie. I get that. I'm not, obviously you lied to gain a benefit, but you lied, right?
[55:35] Yes.
[55:36] So she thought that some attractive American doctor was coming down to take her out to a club in Columbia.
[55:44] Yes.
[55:44] And her father didn't say, you've got to be kidding me. Like, give me a break.
[55:49] She didn't tell her father. She didn't tell her father. And her sister was like, this guy's going to harvest your kidneys. You better watch out.
[55:59] Okay. So her sister was trying to save her.
[56:03] Yes, but irrationally. So she wouldn't listen.
[56:07] So she thought that you were an unmarried, child-free doctor, right? yes so you lied on three major counts right being a doctor being married and not having children, yes again are you a christian, did you pray on this you know thou shalt not bear false witness seems like a fairly important commandment i think people go to hell if they lie to this level so did you pray to God for guidance on should I completely fucking lie and catfish this poor Colombian girl?
[56:55] Would it surprise you if I didn't?
[56:58] Well, I'm just curious. I mean, I don't know what it means to be a Christian in your world. Seems to me you can just do whatever the hell you want. yeah that ain't christianity do what they're willed is what do what you want what where does that come from uh.
[57:20] I think a really red fellow.
[57:21] Yeah it's either satanism or karl marx well but i repeat myself yeah so i'm trying to understand how you follow satanism, and yet you're a christian that seems like a bit of a contradiction i'm not a theologian but it seems like that.
[57:42] It definitely is.
[57:47] And again, your goal here was to get laid, to get this girlfriend in Colombia. Is that right?
[57:57] No, I think my goal was most explicitly to impress the brother of the leader.
[58:06] Oh, with the quality of the woman you could get a hold of?
[58:10] And how sneaky I could be. Because I knew they didn't care about the number of women. in it was like more like did you literally not get caught a single time or were they all like super happy sorry caught means caught out.
[58:26] In your lies no.
[58:29] Because um there were some guys who they just invited five girls and because they were very likely prostitutes the guy just like had them all together and they were aware of each other but that wasn't the purpose of the like meeting and that actually kind of blew the cover for some other guys so like i wanted to like stick to the assignment and impress the leader because you know he's like a trickster and he he appreciates like a weird sense of humor of like oh i'm tricking five girls into thinking that they each had like a single like date with me and yeah that's basically it so.
[59:12] You paid all the money and you went down to columbia to impress someone who was high up in the men's club.
[59:19] Yes he's okay got it no that's fine we don't.
[59:22] Have to get into into the details about that okay got it got it um Um, so how did the girl from Columbia end up back in your house?
[59:39] Um, so afterward, um, I did a thing where I was managing or not managing. I was paying for two houses, kept the wife and the kids.
[59:55] Well, no, your wife's OnlyFans is paying for the two houses, right?
[1:00:00] Well, within a month, I started the one for the girlfriend.
[1:00:05] You started an OnlyFans for the girlfriend?
[1:00:08] Yes.
[1:00:09] Okay, so you're kind of a corruptor here, right?
[1:00:13] Yes.
[1:00:14] I mean, does this bother you? I'm not trying to troll you. I'm genuinely curious because you're like, yes. I mean, how old was the Colombian girl?
[1:00:27] She was 19, almost 20.
[1:00:31] Oh, bro. She just left childhood.
[1:00:38] She kind of didn't have one because of the severe trauma I was fully aware of, like, as she was, like, as we were communicating in the first two weeks, because I could, I could tell, you know, like when a girl is texting you and you ask what dream she had, she's, if she's dreaming that someone was killing her.
[1:00:57] Or So she grew up with severe abuse and violence?
[1:01:02] Severe chronic sexual abuse.
[1:01:06] Okay. And you thought that the best way to help somebody who'd been repeatedly abused and raped as a child was to get her naked as quickly as possible on the internet?
[1:01:21] On some level, that's what happened.
[1:01:26] No, no, no, no, no, no, no. We don't do determinism here. That's not what happened. That's what you did.
[1:01:36] Yes. very minimal like with the thinking of stuff I clearly don't think of should I do things I think of how can I do things and okay so I'm.
[1:01:54] Not sure I mean does your conscience bother you do you.
[1:02:00] It started to and starting about six months ago and, And now it's like, because I'm sensing, or it's more glaringly obvious that for both of these women, their sense of self-respect is disappearing. And because that's so glaringly obvious, that's why I know that before two weeks is up, this has to be settled, settled. old and i pick one or i pick zero or i know i can't do i can't do two like from capability from, emotional from fairness sorry are you.
[1:02:50] Are you calling me up to help you pick which women you broke you should stay with.
[1:02:57] No i'm not sure so.
[1:03:00] What are you calling me for.
[1:03:03] I want to know I want I would like clarity on, like for like when we this call is not going, any like it's not really going the way I thought it would go which is kind of why I feel like I need to call because, I think that you'd be able to call out a lot of things that are in my blind spots which I have a lot and I think that I don't.
[1:03:30] Know what you're talking about here like I don't know what you're talking about. Are you, like, what are you calling me for?
[1:03:38] I'm not like, how dare you call me? I'm genuinely curious. Like, what are you calling me for?
[1:03:49] I think I want to see things as they are. And so in business, one of my mentors was saying that...
[1:04:01] Okay, I don't want to get into names or details or anything like that.
[1:04:04] Yes, yes. Correct. correct so uh he said that if someone created a problem that they probably they cannot get out of that problem by themselves like they lack the perspective they're digging.
[1:04:20] The hole why aren't you calling that business mentor why are you calling me and again i'm i'm fine with calling i i just i'm not sure what you're calling me for saying some other guy had some advice well Well, you should talk to that person then, right? Shouldn't you? But why are you calling me?
[1:04:42] Because that other guy has similar negative problems with women, and he is in the same group. and I want, like for me if someone were to talk about God or like Christian morality I know that that wouldn't be enough to move, or like actually affect me deciding or whatever based on just like what I want or like the impulses or my lizard brain and you are the best secular philosopher, and, but.
[1:05:33] I can't grow a conscience in someone.
[1:05:39] And I felt like maybe, you know, one of the outcomes of this call is like where you're like, you might say, dude, you are like too fucking far gone.
[1:05:56] So are you calling me because you want me to say that or like, I'm not sure, because then that would be permission for you to just do more pretty terrible things, right?
[1:06:05] No, I maybe I have like a. Maybe I want you to like Just, I look at my kids And I Half the time I'm like Crying uncontrollably Well.
[1:06:21] No killing brother Of course you are.
[1:06:25] And Like maybe I want you to like Bitch slap me.
[1:06:30] Uh bitch at you did you say?
[1:06:31] No Bitch slap me.
[1:06:33] Bitch slap you okay, Well I can't bitch slap you more than putting you in hell for eternity and that hasn't done much to change what you think right, yeah, so i don't think that's an answer why do you want what do you want from me why i mean which is another way of saying how can i help but what what are you calling me for.
[1:07:05] Because I know that I strongly feel that before I called and before I thought of calling, that there was like a 90% chance I would choose the Colombian. And I would, my wife would, you know, regardless of ulterior motives of, you know, trying to secure a relatively comfortable life with me.
[1:07:30] Okay, this is bullshit. Let's get back to the emotions you just had. yeah all right so fuck this choice between i mean that i would feel i would feel violated even stepping into the swamp of that choice okay all right so i'm not here for that, okay i'm not here to play eeny meeny miny moe with either of the only fans women you've been managing you understand i don't do that, i'm sorry so let's get back to the emotions that you were feeling what was going on there.
[1:08:14] I like i fucked over both of these women super fucking hard, like this colombian girl she's super sweet and i used to bitch at.
[1:08:30] Her she's not sweet no i mean no no she's not sweet okay she's a victim of years of childhood rape, She's broken. How old is your eldest daughter?
[1:08:56] Six.
[1:08:57] Right. This is your daughter 13 years on. This is your daughter 13 years on. I'm not saying in particular, but in terms of where she comes from, yeah now if your daughter in 12 or 13 years meets a guy like you've been, what as a father sworn to protect her, as a father what would be your response your daughter at 18 or 19 years of age meets a guy, like you, who lies and lies and lies and is very keen to make money off her, by having her in sexual poses on the intranet. How do you as a father feel when your little girl meets someone like you?
[1:10:09] I would... I would move the entire fucking family. And I would take all the measures I can to erase any communications between them and I would try to figure out why the fuck she's falling for this shit. And obviously what I did to contribute to it, which is probably just modeling like she's gonna be familiar with this character, because if I spend any time with her, that's going to be default for her. So she'll probably be drawn to anyone who is similar.
[1:10:56] All right. So you would be appalled, and you'd probably feel quite violent towards a man significantly older than your daughter, who was trying to corrupt her in this way, right?
[1:11:11] Or if he was similar age.
[1:11:14] Well, you're not 19.
[1:11:16] Yes.
[1:11:17] Right? How much older than you, sorry, how much older than the Colombian girl are you?
[1:11:23] I think 12 years.
[1:11:25] 12 years. Right. So your little girl is 19. And a 31-year-old fucking turbo creep Creep wants to put her naked vagina on the internet for money. How do you feel?
[1:12:05] Extremely stupid. And it's like, what the fuck was I doing?
[1:12:14] Okay. So if you think of your daughter meeting a guy like you, you're outraged, terrified, horrified, appalled, right? yeah but she has brother she has met you, she's met you most days for the past six years because you are that guy not to her not to her of course but to someone else's daughter.
[1:12:50] It's a bit worse than that okay if you can imagine.
[1:12:55] I'm okay to hear.
[1:12:59] So for the past two years, like two years and three months or so, I have been spending like 80% of my time in Columbia and neglecting the family, not even calling once per week. And the family was basically abandoned your children. Yes. Okay.
[1:13:22] Okay. So I ask you again, why are you calling me? What do you expect me to tell you that you don't already know?
[1:13:47] I think that because I'm in this hole.
[1:13:56] No, no, no, we don't do determinism here, man.
[1:14:00] Okay.
[1:14:00] You're not in a hole.
[1:14:02] Because I put myself in a hole or decided to be in one and it's like, I want to make sure that what I am, what I've been doing is extremely clear to me because...
[1:14:22] Okay, what is not clear to you? you.
[1:14:24] Because when i uh even when i describe some things here you know you were able to more accurately like keep me on track because i my current morality.
[1:14:39] No no no specifically what are you not clear on not in abstract generalities now i know it's hard to say what are you not clear on because if I was clear I'd know right yes but what is unclear to you do you think about what you've done to these two women and to your children.
[1:15:21] I don't i don't want to leave either one and.
[1:15:28] Oh my god man jesus christ i don't want to no no i feel like i need some holy water here man do you know every time i ask you to have empathy for someone else do you know what you say what.
[1:15:41] Do i say.
[1:15:42] I i me me i i me me i i i holy crap bro, I say what are you unclear about what you've done to these women and your children and you're like well I me me I I I I mean do you have a sense of, what you've done to these women and your children, how it's affected them, do you have a sense of what it means to put what is best for your children first in your mind?
[1:16:26] Clearly not.
[1:16:27] Is it best for your children that their mother has an OnlyFans?
[1:16:33] No, it's not.
[1:16:34] Is it best for your children that you run pick-up game in Columbia and come back with a broken multi-year victim of rampant childhood sexual abuse? no is it best for your children is it best for your children that you abandon them to spend 80% of your time in Colombia no, so do me a fucking favor okay start a sentence not with I I I I but my kids, because Because they don't show up at all in any of these equations that I've heard one shred of over the last hour and a quarter.
[1:17:29] Okay. My oldest, I asked her this morning, I don't want to... I know that if I ask certain things to the child, it's also putting responsibility or something weird.
[1:17:49] Okay, just don't. Listen, guy, my friend. Okay. I'm 57 years old, okay? Mortality is present in my brain. Don't give me all the narrative. Just tell me what happened with your daughter.
[1:18:03] Okay. I asked her if she gets sad when I'm gone. and my oldest said no it was like casual and she's kind of sassy in general and i i find it as an endearing trait she doesn't mean to harm anyone but it hurt and, it highlighted some problems and when i asked the same thing of my second oldest she said yes and she said, I wish you would stay here. He said she wished that I would stay forever.
[1:18:45] Right. And do they know why you're gone?
[1:18:52] My wife covers for me, sort of, but also, I guess, but she says I'm working.
[1:19:03] All right. They'll know at some point, right?
[1:19:10] Yes.
[1:19:12] And then what?
[1:19:18] What there was some part in my head where i was thinking like oh they'd understand or something but it's like oh yeah they don't understand because they're not stupid what.
[1:19:30] Would they understand i mean.
[1:19:32] I know that i know.
[1:19:33] That that you're like running game and exploiting victims victims of childhood sexual abuse and so on. But what is it that you think they would, like, what would they say to make that okay for themselves?
[1:19:46] No, they wouldn't.
[1:19:48] Oh, okay. So when you say they would understand, what do you mean? Like, they'd just understand the bare facts and this would be unforgivable?
[1:19:54] Yeah, they're like, unforgivable bullshit. Like, you're fucking stupid.
[1:19:59] No, no, not stupid. You're not stupid.
[1:20:01] Okay.
[1:20:02] You're not stupid. I mean, stupid guys don't pass their MCATs, right?
[1:20:08] Correct.
[1:20:09] You're not stupid.
[1:20:11] No, just evil.
[1:20:13] Well, you're something. But it's not stupid. How old were you when you were first exposed to pornography?
[1:20:28] I think I was 11.
[1:20:30] And how did you end up being exposed to pornography?
[1:20:35] Stupid. Like peers in school. school, just saying things like jacking off, and I had no idea what that was.
[1:20:44] Right. And so some kid showed you?
[1:20:46] Yes.
[1:20:47] And then you were like a weight of the races, and your parents didn't have any parental controls, or didn't talk to you about the dangers that are out there, or how corrupting this can be. Is that right?
[1:21:00] Correct. And there was like a severe porn addiction, as you can imagine. And then like even this was an issue in the marriage before I found out about the infidelity.
[1:21:22] And when you say severe porn addiction, what are you talking about?
[1:21:25] That i'm talking about when i would have extremely stressful time periods um because i was married at the time and i didn't feel comfortable sorry you were married at the time aren't.
[1:21:41] You still married.
[1:21:42] Yes oh well i mean the porn addiction like throughout the marriage also it happened before the marriage but while i was married also like instead of being a good husband or not chore play but you know just being attractive and schmoozing the wife and doing things the right way i would release anxiety through doing this and sometimes like more than five times a day five.
[1:22:11] Times a day i'd shake your hand but i'd be frightened to okay.
[1:22:15] Yeah so So.
[1:22:17] Your wife was not getting any healthy sexual attention from you, right?
[1:22:24] Correct.
[1:22:25] That may have had, I mean, that doesn't justify it, but it certainly may have had something to do with why she turned outside the marriage for sexual contact, right?
[1:22:36] Yes.
[1:22:37] Okay. And have you thought about the effects of these 20 years? on you.
[1:22:50] Uh, which 20 years?
[1:22:52] 11 to 31.
[1:22:56] Oh, man. That's crazy.
[1:23:02] That's a long time to be hypnotized by flesh.
[1:23:11] Yeah. And it's like i thought oh i haven't used porn in a while but it's like no it's my job and.
[1:23:34] No you haven't yeah i mean you've eight hours at the motel six or whatever it is taking photos right yeah okay and i assume it's videos too it's not just photo yes.
[1:23:46] It's it's very very elaborate.
[1:23:49] Eight hours is There's a lot of photos. All right. So you've been swallowed up by the beast, right? The beast of the flesh. The devil has different paths to the heart of every man, right? And this was yours. Tell me something in your life that is not affected by this addiction, or even defined by it.
[1:24:22] The trait where, once I start, I go down rabbit holes of hyper-focus, and if I want to cook a steak one day, and I don't know how to cook a steak, I'll study how to do it to an extremely high level and, then like once that's done I like that might be the only like aspect of who I am or my life where but certainly in your relationships with women for sure it's.
[1:24:53] Almost completely dominated I think by this addiction.
[1:24:58] Yes a lot of my peers in general would notice like I focus a lot on like, They're like, you're paying too much attention to your girlfriend or your wife.
[1:25:16] Sorry, who would be saying that?
[1:25:19] Like, in the men's group, they would say, you're focusing or you're paying too much attention or you're hanging around your girlfriend too much. And it's because we'd be either filming or having sex or just crazy flesh stuff for the most part. and they would say like they would say things like hey you need to go to the gym more or something like that and you know that's one one like example of how yes it's all consuming.
[1:25:52] And I assume that in this group that you they know that you're the father of four right yes and did they say you need to go home and spend time with your children.
[1:26:08] The vast majority of the group is not Christian.
[1:26:13] Well, no, but you don't have to be a Christian.
[1:26:15] Yes, yes, yes.
[1:26:16] You don't have to be a Christian to say you should spend some time with your kids, not go to Columbia and run game.
[1:26:24] So, to me, it's also strange that I think that they would No.
[1:26:32] No. Sorry.
[1:26:33] Okay.
[1:26:33] If they're saying you're spending too much time with your wife or girlfriend, I mean, they would know, I assume, that you're married and have children.
[1:26:43] Yes.
[1:26:44] So did they say you should spend time with your children? Even if they have some bizarre hostility towards your wife as a wife, wouldn't they say you need to spend time with... Even if it's totally prejudicial and it's all pro-male, wouldn't they say go spend time with your son at least?
[1:27:03] Yes they would say i'm a piece of shit if i actually leave my kids for this clemmy girl okay.
[1:27:12] All right so they're saying you know step up man up whatever right like stay stay married and all they.
[1:27:19] Would say the kids are more important than the women.
[1:27:23] Well you have two daughters too right.
[1:27:25] Yes well i mean uh like you know my offspring are more important than the wife or girlfriend they would say like yeah so.
[1:27:37] Somehow they think that your children are going to grow up healthy and happy and well adjusted if you're not getting along with their mother.
[1:27:45] That's that's like one like glaring like uh yeah it's a bit of a flaw in the thing that's a flaw okay yeah.
[1:28:00] Right. And what is the state of your addiction at the moment?
[1:28:06] It's like I switched it to the Colombian, basically.
[1:28:11] Right, right, right.
[1:28:12] She's like super hot, as you can imagine, and super passionate and does crazy stuff.
[1:28:21] Oh, you mean like crazy stuff in front of the camera?
[1:28:26] No, like with me. She does less in front of the camera.
[1:28:29] Right, okay. Okay. And have you ever suggested to her that she might want to get some counseling for the years of horrifying abuse she suffered?
[1:28:41] She said that she did go to counseling, and she found that the therapist wasn't helpful. And she said that the way that she changed after this and processed everything is she withdraws within herself. And rather than explode at a guy when she's upset, because that would put her in danger, she keeps quiet. it and like complies basically yeah.
[1:29:14] So when you want her to do um sexual stuff on camera she she does it because she's complying complying.
[1:29:20] Um i guess to say that the culture is a little bit different there um i know that ethics is universal but i guess the context over there is you know oh she's not actually hooking or whatever and so this is better and she's safe at home and, um the whole getting doxxed is much less of a problem over there overall because they don't even have the infrastructure for like tracking and stuff so okay.
[1:29:57] All right so it's better than yeah i mean i i assume it's safer than being on the streets okay Okay. So, what are you calling me for? How can I help you?
[1:30:21] Well, you can't help me grow a conscience.
[1:30:24] Well, how... If somebody asked you, should you put your kid's interest first, what would you say?
[1:30:35] I would say... I would say something obnoxious like, well, I know what God would say, but...
[1:30:46] No, I mean, if you're being honest and not running your mouth. If you were being honest and someone said to you, as a father who chose to bring four children into the world, should you put their interests first? Should you do what is best for them?
[1:31:04] I would say... I would say that, I'm not.
[1:31:24] Really sure what the pause is here I don't know what's going on my.
[1:31:27] Brain like faded out because like there's it's just a lot.
[1:31:32] No no what would you say if somebody posed to you the abstract question, should a father who chooses to bring children into this world do what is best for them? What would you say? Would you say yes or no?
[1:31:49] I would say yes.
[1:31:50] Okay. Does Jesus say that a father should do what is best for his family as the spiritual leader of the household? hold?
[1:32:06] Paraphrase the S.
[1:32:07] Yeah. Does Jesus hint a little bit over the course of his life that self-sacrifice for the sake of virtue is positive?
[1:32:19] Yes.
[1:32:20] I mean, think getting nailed to a cross would pretty much put that one in the bag, right?
[1:32:25] Yes.
[1:32:27] Would Jesus say, that giving up virtue and imperiling your soul for the sake of money, good or bad?
[1:32:43] Oh, fuck.
[1:32:45] I'm sorry?
[1:32:47] Oh, fuck. Because that's a direct money is the root of all evil kind of thing.
[1:32:55] Now, why do you think Jesus says that money is the root, or Christianity says that money is the root of all evil. Well, that's a tautology, though. Oh, yeah. Because it is, right?
[1:33:14] Because it's so common, and the Bible's supposedly the word of God to guide us to live a life without sin, or minimize, or believe. I guess it depends on the denomination you are.
[1:33:33] Well, it's also a false joy. So, you have a lot of money from these two income streams, right?
[1:33:43] Yes.
[1:33:44] Are you happy?
[1:33:45] Fuck no. Right.
[1:33:49] The money is dangled before you, as Satan said to Jesus in the wilderness or in the desert, you can have the whole world, just give up your virtue. And Jesus says, no. because what happens is, as Jesus says, what does it profit a man if he gains the whole world and loses his whole soul? Because if you gain wealth through corruption, you don't need to wait to die to go to hell. Right?
[1:34:28] It feels like that.
[1:34:30] Yeah. You're not comfortable in your own skin. You're not sleeping well. Everything looks weird. Everything's too bright or too dark. And you can't connect with people. And your mind churns. And you're distracted. And you've got a sickness in your stomach. Like, oh, everything.
[1:34:46] I'm lying to my in-laws every time I see them.
[1:34:49] In what way?
[1:34:52] They're asking like, oh, how's everything going? Oh, how was your business trip?
[1:34:56] Oh, and they don't know what you're doing to their daughter, right?
[1:34:59] Not at all. Not at all.
[1:35:02] What do you think would happen if they found out.
[1:35:07] They'd try to burn me alive.
[1:35:09] Just as you would if someone was doing that to your daughter right, probably or something like that is a metaphor you'd feel enraged, right so you've dug yourself a pretty deep pit right, Yes And you're certainly smart enough to know better, right?
[1:35:40] I have learned that intelligence is a small piece of whether good things or correct things are done.
[1:35:53] Well, intelligence can be dangerous, too, because you can talk yourself in and out of stuff, right?
[1:35:58] Yes, and that has been a terrible theme in my life.
[1:36:01] Right. so why do you think this stuff doesn't make you it doesn't bother you to the point where you question it beforehand because.
[1:36:19] I am extremely similar to my father.
[1:36:24] That's not an answer at all okay no if i mean if i say you drink too much and you say well why Well, my father drank too much. It's like, well, then you know exactly how bad that is. So why would you do it? I mean, I'm sure you suffered from your father's amorality as a child. I mean, you're suffering from it now, right?
[1:36:45] Yes.
[1:36:46] So how did your father's amorality work out for him?
[1:36:53] He died alone in the Philippines. means um his the third wife he was trying to famouse into supporting him uh called my mom it's saying like oh uh i think your your ex-husband is crying here saying he wants to talk to his family and my mom was like click okay.
[1:37:17] So it worked out very badly for him right Right?
[1:37:22] Yes.
[1:37:23] So saying, I am like this because I saw the whole disaster of my father's life, means you know how this plays out, right?
[1:37:35] I actually didn't see it because I was in the military in a way. But my brother and sister, they saw it. I'm sorry.
[1:37:43] Are you saying, I get that you may not have seen specific scenes, but are you saying you didn't see any negative effects from your father's? Woman chasing an amorality and betrayal of his vows?
[1:37:55] I saw a lot of, or I saw parts of it, but I was frequently away, and I would hear certain things like, oh, he still wrote letters to those other women, or my mom kicked him out.
[1:38:13] Okay, but that were negative effects.
[1:38:14] Yes.
[1:38:15] For him hound-dogging on women, right?
[1:38:18] Yes.
[1:38:18] Okay, so you know how this plays out, and certainly you know by now, right?
[1:38:24] Yes.
[1:38:25] How long ago did your father die?
[1:38:29] 2017.
[1:38:30] Okay. So seven years ago, right? So from the age of... 24, you had the final chapter in this shitty tale, right?
[1:38:45] I found out about his death, I think, two years later, though, because an insurance company called and was like, oh, hey, your father has some leftover money for you. And then they checked the file and they said, oh, I'm sorry, it's 56 cents because he didn't pay the premiums. So sorry for wasting your time. And I was like hysterically laughing and crying.
[1:39:17] Sorry, you didn't. But what about the story of the third wife and he wants to talk to his family and your mom says click? When did you find out about that?
[1:39:26] That was. Oh, so I was I found out about that maybe two months ago because I was asking. I had a sudden interest in, like, hey, guys, hey, family. I was away a lot. I want to know, like, was there anything else that happened with dad?
[1:39:49] Oh, okay. So you knew that bad things happened to your father as the result of his amorality or his lack of conscience or whatever, right?
[1:39:57] Yeah, it was general, and it was not graphic at all.
[1:40:03] But he had three marriages, right? right uh.
[1:40:06] I yeah i found out about the third.
[1:40:08] Okay did you know about two of them uh.
[1:40:11] My uh my mom was the second.
[1:40:13] Okay so you knew that there were negative effects from your father's approach to life so then saying i am the way i am because of my father is not true there's no causality see that's an excuse and you know brother i'm glad we're having this conversation But holy shit, you give yourself excuses. Well, I was enraged because my wife cheated. That's an excuse. Well, I have hypomania and I have this and I have that and I can't concentrate and she's so hot. You just toss away your moral free will and responsibility like nobody's business. You're 31 years old, my friend. "'You're a father of four. "'You can't blame your dad for shit.', That's another excuse.
[1:41:20] You're right.
[1:41:21] Why are you the way you are? Hey, man, you're 18, 19, 20 years old. That's, you know, you're right at fresh out of childhood, like you're like Neo, wet out of the womb of the Matrix, right? I get that. But you're in your 30s. You're a father of four. why are you the way you are the answer is a.
[1:41:47] Series of choices.
[1:41:49] Because you choose to be, when did you find out about the colombian girl's history of sexual abuse.
[1:42:01] The second day of texting her.
[1:42:03] Right did that trouble you.
[1:42:08] It troubled me and i dark triad used my medical like psychiatric assessment uh skills to figure that she would actually be like the easiest or the best candidate for my evil plans.
[1:42:32] Right so so you targeted her as an easy victim, yes so it troubled you and you reacted with compassion right, and then you rubbed your hands together and you thought she's going to be easy to control and exploit so you had a choice right you did react with compassion you did react with some concern right you were troubled, yeah okay so you had a choice, so you chose this you know tragically negative behavior, could you have chose differently of course yes right i mean you've listened i know you haven't listened to my show in many years but you've had some experience right with with these kinds of the conversations with, you know, the challenges of virtue and the...
[1:43:38] Yeah, four years of listening almost every day.
[1:43:41] Oh, okay. So, fantastic, right? And you also had me available as a resource, right? And you could call me and said, Stef, I'm tempted by exploiting this tragic victim of childhood rape, right? And we could have had a conversation, right, that would have steered you right in the same way we had a conversation in 2020, which steered you away from committing violence against your wife, right?
[1:44:03] Yes. Right.
[1:44:06] So, why didn't you call?
[1:44:10] I was... I was sleeping with her within two hours of physically meeting her.
[1:44:17] No, no, but you were texting first.
[1:44:19] Oh, yes. Oh. Wow.
[1:44:22] So, why didn't you call me when you said, Stef, Stef, I've got this dark triad. This is your word, right? No, your phrase. I got this dark triad impulse to exploit this victim of childhood rape. Help me, help me, help me. because you're calling me now, right? So this is the question. Not only why are you calling me, why are you calling me now? Because you could have called me then.
[1:44:46] I could have.
[1:44:47] Right? You could have said, you know, I have this desire to put my wife's lactating boobs on the internet. Help me, Stef. Help me, Obi-Wan Kenobi. You're my only friend. You could have given me a call, right? But you didn't. But you're calling me now. When it's all done.
[1:45:08] I think it's because I know that it's like I built this stairway to hell, and the stairway is about to fall, and I'm about to fall in hell, and this is...
[1:45:26] Well okay so what's the argument for hell here right i mean let's just take the amoral approach hey man so you get to choose between two hot women who make you a fortune through pornography, where's the hell.
[1:45:45] I guess the fact that i'm feeling that there's hell means i know like what's correct to do but But the flesh, or I'm choosing the flesh, I know that if I didn't call, I would have a 90% chance of picking the Colombian.
[1:46:03] Of picking what?
[1:46:05] The Colombian.
[1:46:06] And then you would divorce your wife, leave your kids. Would you marry the Colombian or just shack up with her? What's the road forward? What?
[1:46:18] So, when I would think about the possible scenarios, I only recently realized that my timeframes appeared to only last about five years because I figured that...
[1:46:32] Okay, no, no, no, no. Come on.
[1:46:35] Okay.
[1:46:35] What's the path forward?
[1:46:36] I would want to marry her.
[1:46:38] So, you want to marry her?
[1:46:40] I would.
[1:46:41] Okay. And you would then hand over your wife's OnlyFans to some other guy, or you would shut it down, or what would happen?
[1:46:50] I would teach her how to run it herself.
[1:46:52] Oh, okay. Okay. So you would want her to continue doing that?
[1:46:56] Or I'd say, hey, this is a thing you could do, but a lot of the skills do translate to regular YouTube and selling an online course on how to raise four kids when your husband abandons you. and she would do well with that.
[1:47:12] Oh, so she, after choosing you, would be in a great position to give advice to the rest of the world.
[1:47:20] I've learned that in people who like course, the cell courses, they helping people avoid terrible mistakes also has value.
[1:47:30] But she wouldn't know how she got into this terrible mistake. How would she know? Does she know?
[1:47:39] And maybe it's fucked up, but that doesn't make it less profitable.
[1:47:46] Okay, so she would lie too, claiming to have a wisdom and expertise. So you just set her up with a different kind of con.
[1:47:53] Essentially.
[1:47:54] Okay, and that's okay? That didn't cross your mind that your wife might not have the wisdom to instruct other people?
[1:48:05] That would briefly cross it.
[1:48:07] Ah, okay, so good. So that's good. That crosses your mind. Okay, so then you marry the Colombian. Do you live where you live now, or do you live in Colombia?
[1:48:17] We'd live in another peaceful country that isn't so white powdery, if you know what I mean. And it would be safer.
[1:48:28] Wait, snowy? Cocaine? What are we talking here?
[1:48:31] Cocaine.
[1:48:32] Sorry, what does cocaine have to do with it? Oh, Colombia is too cocaine-y, is that right?
[1:48:37] Yes, we live in like a super popular city where there's a lot of danger to foreigners and stuff. So we would move to a peaceful place.
[1:48:46] So you'd move to some other country, neither where your children are nor in Colombia?
[1:48:51] Correct. Okay.
[1:48:53] And so you would not see your children? No.
[1:48:59] Even if I did, it's so negligible that essentially zero.
[1:49:03] Okay. Yeah. So essentially zero. And then you would want to maybe start another family with the Colombian girl.
[1:49:10] Yes.
[1:49:11] Okay. And would you continue to run her sex site?
[1:49:22] So part of the cultural difference is when I was slightly growing a conscience, I asked her like hey wouldn't you want to transition out of this or like just stop it at some point because isn't it like risky or embarrassing to you and her frame of mind was like oh you think I'm not pretty enough to continue so like at this point she's, she sees it as kind of like, a proxy for her attractiveness.
[1:49:56] So that's not a very intelligent response on her part, right?
[1:50:00] It's not.
[1:50:01] And would you say that she's not very intelligent?
[1:50:05] It's like, she's intelligent as she wants to be, basically.
[1:50:10] No. No, that's not really how intelligence works. Otherwise we'd all be as intelligent as Aristotle, right? So that's not really how intelligence works.
[1:50:23] Yeah. No, she's not.
[1:50:26] And with her history of trauma and the pornographic work she's doing, will she be a good mother to your children?
[1:50:39] At some point I thought so.
[1:50:42] Okay, I don't care about at some point. You and I are talking now.
[1:50:46] Yeah, now, probably not.
[1:50:51] Probably not? Brother, come on. Don't bear false witness with me.
[1:51:02] I do see how she is with nieces and nephews, and she's good or from just if I were to...
[1:51:13] I'm sure she's fine to play with them because she's quite immature herself because her maturity was stunted by repeated rapes as a child. Will she be a good mother in her current state of mind to your children?
[1:51:30] To be more direct, my wife is fully on board with UPB and peaceful parenting and she consumed so much of your work and so she doesn't hit the kids she tries not to yell but, enforces boundaries, talks about consequences. Columbian's not even close.
[1:51:50] Okay and does your wife feel that the only fans approach is also good parenting?
[1:52:04] So I guess it depends on the Christianity sex but she thinks that she's that her role is to, like inspire me to self-correct rather than directly just.
[1:52:27] Answer my question or tell me you're not going to answer it but don't tip me off on this bullshit path. Does your wife believe that it's good parenting to do what she's doing online?
[1:52:39] No.
[1:52:40] Okay. So she does it for the money and maybe to please you or something like that, right?
[1:52:47] It's to please me. It's to feel pretty. It's to get attention. It's to have date nights away from the kids. It's stuff that would be like, I could find another way.
[1:52:58] Oh, you think? you think you could find another way than showing your sexual partner's flesh or the internet? You think there's some other conceivable way to make some money?
[1:53:13] Yeah. Okay.
[1:53:15] So the Colombian girl, if you take away the prettiness and the sexiness or whatever it is, right? What virtue is she bringing to the table? Well.
[1:53:27] Not patience. It's like, it's technically impossible for her to, for me to recognize it because I'm not virtuous myself.
[1:53:48] Well, then why are you calling me? I mean, you say I'm a moral philosopher. You say I'm the best. I appreciate that. But if it's not possible for you to recognize morality, why would you call me and not some random person?
[1:54:03] I guess maybe my concept of, I guess that was the definition of love or something.
[1:54:12] Yeah, I don't want you to mouth platitudes. I'm asking what the Colombian girl brings to the table except her attractiveness.
[1:54:29] Aside from profitability I like her as a companion like stuff that is fluff in comparison to the profitability is.
[1:54:39] Based on her attractiveness so that doesn't count right.
[1:54:41] Oh okay, I guess lifestyle too where I can no that's just the money that comes from her attractiveness yes Yes. Basically, nothing that would really count.
[1:55:04] Okay. So, once again, it's about your dick.
[1:55:10] Yes.
[1:55:11] Okay. So, are you calling me because you're concerned about following your lusts and wrecking lives in the process?
[1:55:26] That sounds very close to the nebulous torrent of thoughts I had.
[1:55:34] Okay. So what do you want me to say or do about the fact that you prefer to sin in the flesh than succeed in the soul? if you have a consistent pattern. And look, I have sympathy for what happened to you as a child. Of course, of course. I really do. But if you know the phrase dark triad and you know the corruption that you're capable of and you pursue that, despite having listened to my show for years and knowing that this would not be a preferred approach, to put it mildly, right? yes so my concern is that you're calling me not to change but to spread despair.
[1:56:34] Like, with the audience?
[1:56:36] Well, I don't know where the hell this show is going to go. But with me, with the audience, like, hey, I listened to you for years, and this is where my life is, and, you know, I know about virtue, and I know about truth, but this is what I do, right?
[1:56:53] No, I think that I'm called because you pointing out things, like, coming from you, because you saved... like in that moment you did save me from fucking up super hard with my wife and.
[1:57:12] Okay so let's sorry interrupt so let's say i did that and i'm obviously glad to hear that so then why wait four years and continue to dig and then call me, it's almost like you're calling your nutritionist who told you to eat better or you're going to have a heart attack and you call your nutritionist when you're having a heart attack why would you do that.
[1:57:40] I know that i.
[1:57:42] Mean you when when did you last see your children consistently you said you've been in columbia 80 of the time when did you last see your children consistently.
[1:57:51] It's been about a week and.
[1:57:53] Oh it's a week i'm sorry i thought no i'm no.
[1:57:55] I've been with I am with the family, and it's been one week since I've been with the family, and I visit every two or three months for two to four weeks at a time.
[1:58:09] Okay. Are you going to answer my question?
[1:58:11] What was the question?
[1:58:13] How long has it been since you saw your children on a regular basis, which means you're there most of the time?
[1:58:22] Two years ago. Right.
[1:58:24] So for two years, you have abandoned your children.
[1:58:33] Yes.
[1:58:34] And you call me now. How long has Colombian Girl been doing the online pornography?
[1:58:43] About two years.
[1:58:44] Okay. So you had that dark triad temptation two years ago, and you didn't call me. Now, of course, you've heard me a million times say, you can go to therapy, you can, like, there's lots of different options, right? And did you pursue either a call with me, which is free, or did you pursue therapy, which of course I've recommended countless times if you've listened to my show for years? Did you take any of my advice, including my free counsel, years ago, before getting yourself into these situations?
[1:59:26] No, I didn't.
[1:59:27] So why are you calling me? And again, I appreciate the conversation, but why do you think you're calling me? Because I know there's a dark triad in there from what you report, right? Is this a good faith conversation?
[1:59:49] I know that there's some percentage more than zero where I was hoping you would give me permission to be a piece of shit.
[1:59:58] No, you didn't call me for that. Come on. You didn't call me for that. Let's not even try.
[2:00:03] Why?
[2:00:04] That's not why you called. Why did you call? Why now?
[2:00:07] Right? Could have been next week, last week, two years ago, three years ago. Could have been five years ago, ten years ago. I know you called me. So you call me when there's an emergency, right? And the last time we talked, you were having violent thoughts towards your wife, and we talked you out of that, right?
[2:00:22] Yes.
[2:00:23] Okay. What do you want me to talk you out of?
[2:00:32] Talk me out of picking the Columbian.
[2:00:37] Is that your major issue? Which woman you're pimping for do you go with?
[2:00:45] Well, I know that's just the current fire, the huge underlying thing.
[2:00:52] No, but why would I be interested in putting out your fires? Philosophy is about prevention, not cure.
[2:01:02] I think the only other thing i'm that's in my mind right now is that i'm noticing like signs of really negative behaviors in my kids and that's That's probably waking me up more than other things.
[2:01:24] Well, I mean, that's entirely predictable on the last two years, if you're abandoning them in order to have sex with the woman you convinced to become an online pornographer. Like, you don't need me for that, right? Right. What are the principles that you're missing, that you need emergency calls? You know, like, if you have to keep going to the emergency room for health issues, there's got to be some health principles that you're not following or doing, right? So, what are the principles that you're not following that you keep having a, oh, you have to call me for these crazy emergencies?
[2:02:21] I'm kind of, kind of lost or well maybe yeah well I don't know fuck what.
[2:02:38] Do you mean you're kind of lost.
[2:02:42] I I don't I am having a hard time understanding how to answer the question.
[2:02:56] Okay, what principles of morality do you think you're not performing, or not enacting, that you end up in these situations?
[2:03:10] It might be as basic as the universally preferable behavior.
[2:03:14] Yeah, that's just a phrase, right? I mean, UPB doesn't answer any questions. They're just three letters. So, what principles? Are you not enacting that your life is this chaotic and messy?
[2:03:34] Principles. So, like, the word hypocrisy is coming to mind?
[2:03:47] Yeah, but hypocrisy about what? Hypocrisy is just a negative label. But hypocrisy with regards to what? Like, just what principles are you not following?
[2:04:02] Um my someone told me once that i don't love my family the way i say that i do because, like obviously i spend no time with them so i like why the fuck am i saying that like you.
[2:04:19] Say it's cringe but that's not so you you you present yourself as better than you are or whatever right but okay but what i guess that's a kind of hypocrisy but what are the principles, okay let's try it let's try it this way what was the colombian girl looking for from you fundamentally when she was looking she was looking for a way out right a.
[2:04:44] Way out a lifestyle.
[2:04:45] No no not a lifestyle she wanted to get out of a horribly abusive environment right Right?
[2:04:52] Yes.
[2:04:53] Was she still living at home?
[2:04:55] Yes.
[2:04:56] Okay, so she was still living in the house where she was repeatedly raped as a child.
[2:05:01] The family moved.
[2:05:03] Okay, it doesn't matter.
[2:05:05] It doesn't matter. Sure.
[2:05:06] It doesn't matter. Sorry, if it's not the particular house. She was still living in the household, in the family environment, where she was repeatedly raped as a child, right?
[2:05:17] Yes.
[2:05:18] So you were a way out, a sanctuary, right? yes and you knew that about her right this is the dark triad stuff you were talking about you knew she was desperate for a way out of the house of rape right yes and what did you do to her.
[2:05:41] I perpetrated a extremely similar thing upon her.
[2:05:46] Yeah i mean it's consensual she's an adult i get all of that but it's not like she has a whole mess of voluntary choice given the amount of trauma So she viewed you as a savior, right?
[2:06:05] Yes.
[2:06:06] As a way to get out. And you lied to her about everything. So one of the things that it seems to me you're not quite getting the hang of is telling the fucking truth. You lie to your in-laws, you lie to your wife, you lie to the Colombian girl, you lie to your kids, right?
[2:06:43] Yes.
[2:06:44] So if I were to say, what's a kind of moral principle that you're not getting around to doing, what's one that we could think of that's not just as abstract as UPB?
[2:06:57] Telling the truth.
[2:06:58] Yeah.
[2:07:00] Honesty. Honesty.
[2:07:03] Honesty. Honesty starts with honesty with the self. Right? Are you being a good father?
[2:07:19] No.
[2:07:20] You are being a terrible father. Are you being a good husband?
[2:07:26] No.
[2:07:29] Right. Now, do you want to try to become a good father and a good husband?
[2:07:42] Definitely father and for being a good husband um i feel like that's less but i also have never given it a good shot sorry so let's.
[2:08:02] Try this shit again because maybe you missed the earlier part of the conversation. Can you be a good father and a bad husband?
[2:08:16] I think that it's possible maybe...
[2:08:18] It is not possible to be a good father and a bad husband because your children are going to model their sense of a relationship of you and your wife. It is the same thing to be a good husband and a good father.
[2:08:39] So would that mean, like, if we got divorced...
[2:08:45] I didn't ask if you wanted to get divorced. I asked if you wanted to be a good husband. Because you said you're not being a good husband now, right?
[2:08:56] Correct.
[2:08:57] Okay. Do you want to become a good husband?
[2:09:01] Yes.
[2:09:02] Okay. What do you need to change to be a good father?
[2:09:11] Too many fucking things. to tell the truth to stop indulging in the flesh to sacrifice.
[2:09:27] Well you need to be home yes and you need to love them and apologize to them, in whatever age appropriate manner you can, Okay, so you need to be home, right?
[2:09:48] Yes.
[2:09:49] And you need to be attentive to your children, right?
[2:09:53] Yes.
[2:09:54] And you need to play with them, you need to engage with them, you need to love them, you need to do what is best for them and what they need, right?
[2:10:03] Yes.
[2:10:04] Is any of that a baffling mystery to you?
[2:10:09] It's not.
[2:10:10] Okay, so you know what to do. is that fair.
[2:10:19] Yes okay.
[2:10:21] What needs to happen with the Colombian girl.
[2:10:26] A lot of apologies um, some logistic stuff but it needs to end I need to also specify that I have to kind of assume she's still in the child state and I need to, say, I'm not your savior. You really need to do the therapy.
[2:10:55] I'm pretty sure she's aware you're not her savior. I think she's aware that you're another exploiter. So, what does she need as a whole, as a person? healing yeah yeah what specifically uh.
[2:11:19] Separation distance from me and holy water.
[2:11:23] She needs some resources so she doesn't have to go home, she needs therapy, okay right is that fair to say.
[2:11:43] Yes.
[2:11:44] So you need to... Sorry, go ahead.
[2:11:49] It's kind of like... Thankfully, the cost of living is so low there that even if she stops the adult stuff, the legitimate marketing she does actually is monetized enough to where she could live solo.
[2:12:07] I don't know what any of that means. Are you saying that she could still continue to make money off the online pornography?
[2:12:13] She could literally stop the pornography delete it all but continue the the sales funnel like the rest of it like youtube monetization whatever and she's fine.
[2:12:24] I i don't know what that means and i don't particularly care to know but has she saved all the money that she made.
[2:12:36] Not all of it.
[2:12:37] And you can give her the money that you profited right, yes so you could give her the money that you profited and maybe double it because you were older and kind of exploited her.
[2:12:55] I could do that.
[2:12:57] All right after.
[2:12:58] A month or two but yeah.
[2:13:00] Well whatever right so you could send her on her way with some kind of nest egg so that she could find some way to live a slightly better life, right?
[2:13:13] Yes.
[2:13:19] And is that something you would be willing to do?
[2:13:24] I'm not going to lie and say it would be easy, but it's something I can do.
[2:13:31] Is that something you will commit to doing? Because if you're not going to accept any pain, this is all pointless, right?
[2:13:40] I'm not going to learn without pain.
[2:13:42] Well, I mean, the only thing you learn is pleasure and pain, not principle, right? So you're going to have to train yourself out of bad habits with punishment. At least until you clear the way for your conscience to emerge and accept principles, right?
[2:13:58] Yes.
[2:14:01] And is what i'm saying that you double the money you made from her and give it back to her is that unfair or unjust in your mind.
[2:14:09] No it's not.
[2:14:12] Okay like i mean you understand restitution is essential right yeah.
[2:14:17] Giving a refund of 100 isn't enough to make a customer feel okay.
[2:14:23] Yeah Yeah.
[2:14:23] That's just a break-even thing, right? Yeah.
[2:14:26] Okay. And then you would try to hook her up with social workers and therapists in Colombia or something like that so that she has...
[2:14:34] That doesn't exist.
[2:14:35] I'm sorry?
[2:14:37] That kind of doesn't exist over there.
[2:14:40] Are you saying there's no social workers in Colombia?
[2:14:45] The system is super underdeveloped and fucked. She'd be better... Like, I can find ways to help her, but it wouldn't be...
[2:14:53] Okay, then you just give her more money until she has enough that she can maybe live for a year or two and get some therapy without having to go home.
[2:15:03] Work. Yes.
[2:15:05] All right. And as you say, the cost of living is lower, so that's doable, right?
[2:15:10] Yes. Okay.
[2:15:14] Now, what restitution is needed for your wife? Now, I know, I know, she's not acted well, in some ways she's acted badly, I get all of that, but you can't control her, you can only control yourself. So, what needs to happen with regards to your wife? Because you didn't just abandon your children, did you?
[2:15:37] No, I didn't.
[2:15:38] You abandoned your wife to go and have sex with a highly damaged young Colombian woman.
[2:15:47] Yeah. I need to basically give her enough time for therapy at a minimum. And I need to also accept that she still might, at a later date, find that I fucked up too hard and she doesn't feel safe, that could be a thing.
[2:16:21] I need to do a lot of work.
[2:16:23] Yeah. I mean, what do you think it's going to take? How long have you been married now?
[2:16:34] Almost 14 years.
[2:16:37] Right. And how many affairs have you had?
[2:16:45] Maybe three.
[2:16:45] Hmm. And what percentage of your marriage have you been faithful?
[2:16:58] Surprisingly high, but like 75% and she was unfaithful.
[2:17:07] No, no, no. I didn't ask about her. You're trying to balance things out, which is another excuse. I'm bad because my wife is bad. My wife was bad first. I'm only bad sex. I don't care. It's your conscience. It's your life. It's your morality. You got to find these excuses, and you got to eliminate them with extreme prejudice, if that makes sense. We all do, right? We all do. because our default position when we do something wrong, mine too, right? I mean, mine too. Our default position when we do something wrong is to make excuses, right?
[2:17:43] Yeah.
[2:17:43] I mean, that's human nature, right? So at least as it currently stands, right?
[2:17:50] Yes.
[2:17:51] So I don't want to hear about your wife's wrongdoing because I'm not on the phone with her, right?
[2:17:58] Yeah.
[2:17:59] It's you and you alone. And if you blame your bad behavior on other people, whether it's your wife, your dad, or Satan, you're just not taking self-ownership. And when you don't take self-ownership and you blame other people, your life just keeps getting worse until you learn, right?
[2:18:16] Yeah.
[2:18:20] And with your kids? I mean, the youngest must barely know you.
[2:18:30] I think I spent a total of 12 weeks, and she's two.
[2:18:40] Right. So, that's not good. And your son, too, doesn't know you very well, right?
[2:18:50] He knows my anger.
[2:18:53] Okay, so he knows the negative sides of you. Because you're like, I want a son so I can ignore him and yell at him. So. What do your children need, do you think?
[2:19:17] Time.
[2:19:19] Yeah, they need your time.
[2:19:20] Attention. Yeah.
[2:19:24] And apologies. you don't have to go into details. I was wrong to be away. I did the wrong thing. I'm so sorry. But you got to at least, like, you don't have to tell the whole truth to your children, but at least don't lie to them.
[2:19:40] Yeah.
[2:19:41] Right? Because all of this, so daddy had to go for work, blah, blah, blah, right? I mean, that's just a lie. Well, why were you away? I'll tell you when I get older. I'm just going to tell you now. I was doing the wrong thing. because otherwise you're going to try and raise these kids they're going to know deep down you're lying you're not going to have any credibility with them and then things are going to go to hell when they become teenagers yeah, now what do you need.
[2:20:21] Therapy i need to take a lot of action.
[2:20:28] Brother you need jesus i.
[2:20:30] Was gonna say that but i didn't think you'd.
[2:20:33] No no you need you need someone on your shoulder to counter that dark triad you talked about and it ain't me right clearly and maybe it's a therapist but if you go to church and you pray and you consult with god God, that's a great ally for your conscience, right? I mean, your conscience needs a little bit of strengthening, wouldn't you say?
[2:21:00] More than a little.
[2:21:01] Yeah, I mean, it's kind of easy to ignore that little voice unless we amplify it to the white-haired guy on a cloud, right?
[2:21:09] Yeah.
[2:21:10] Go to church. Confess your sins. Talk to the priest. Join some Bible study. Pray. Pray morning, noon, and night for guidance. Except that you have sinned. And, you know, pretty badly too, is it fair to say?
[2:21:38] Yeah.
[2:21:40] I mean, you're not a murderer. Yay! Right? I mean, but, you know, this is pretty bad stuff, right?
[2:21:46] Yeah, it's life-destroying.
[2:21:50] Well, again, that's singular, but it's lives-destroying in that it's really harming your children most of all. so i think that you know read your bible read your go to bible study talk to a priest are you catholic.
[2:22:11] Uh i think i'm a reformist but maybe eastern orthodox will be in the future because there's more accountability.
[2:22:17] Okay if there's a confessional i would suggest that because this is a lot of secrets to be carrying, right?
[2:22:28] Yeah.
[2:22:31] And yeah, try to get in touch with that great guy who got very emotional about an hour ago. It is through that sorrow that the empathy will come. And when you have the empathy, the temptation diminishes. Otherwise, you know, hedonism and pleasure takes over and you really don't care who you drive over to get to your the dealer who gives you what you need yeah, poor girl that's most of what I wanted to say how does that strike you?
[2:23:15] I had no idea that this would actually, the call would be like this.
[2:23:22] Really?
[2:23:24] Yeah.
[2:23:25] Call me this moralist guy. I mean, when I talk about morals?
[2:23:29] You really bitch slapped me.
[2:23:32] No, I didn't. Don't give me that excuse either. I'm just trying to ally with your conscience. I'm trying to ally with your conscience so you have a happier life.
[2:23:42] Because this is going really fucking badly, right?
[2:23:45] That was like a kind of a term of endearment.
[2:23:48] Yeah, yeah, no, I get it, I get it, but I'm trying to get you to bitch slap yourself a little, you know what I mean?
[2:23:56] I'll do that.
[2:23:57] But, you know, not punitive, right? I mean, you've sinned and, you know, we all sin and so on. Maybe yours is a little bit more pedal to the metal than some others. Okay, but that just means that the virtues could be even greater once you bounce, right? Right? But this is going in a very, very bad direction. And it's not going to get better. And in fact, it is only going to get worse to the point where you're going to end up like your dad. You know that, right?
[2:24:21] Yeah.
[2:24:22] And that's a lot of regret. And you won't have the excuse your dad has, right? Because you've listened to philosophy for years, right? So you won't have the excuse your dad has. Which is going to be even worse, right? Even worse than your dad.
[2:24:36] Yeah.
[2:24:43] So I'm telling you to turn around because you're taking other people with you. And if you go too far down the road, this very dark road, at some point, there is no turning back. Maybe that's why you're calling, right? You're on the edge of tipping over and not coming back. You're like windmilling on the edge of a cliff, right? You're windmilling your hands like, oh, God, I got to grab something or I'm fucking done.
[2:25:15] I i know that if i picked the flesh my my wife would have understandably left me and i i know like all the things of oh she dates again high likelihood that my three daughters at least one of them is going to get sexually abused by a partner or something like i i i knew that this is almost a point of no return.
[2:25:44] I think so. And I think you're wise to call, and I hope that you will take this to heart and know that I am not trying to hurl any thunderbolts, but rather ally with the best that is within you, to get you to turn the fuck back and start climbing towards the light instead of this shitstorm that you're pouring yourself into to be dissolved into nothing.
[2:26:12] Thank you all.
[2:26:14] Right brother well i appreciate the call and keep me posted all right.
[2:26:20] I will all.
[2:26:21] Right have a good night you too.
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