[0:00] Hello?
[0:02] Hello, how's it going?
[0:03] Good, how are you doing, Steph?
[0:05] I am well, thank you for having a decent microphone. It makes me weep with joy and gratitude.
[0:10] Oh yeah, because it's the gamer in me, so I just bought it because I just wanted a nice mic, so I just have the headphone mic set up.
[0:18] Oh, nice, nice. What's the mic, by the way?
[0:21] Uh, I think it's an Elgato Wave 3.
[0:24] Oh, nice, nice. Okay. All right, enough tech. I'm all ears, brother. How can I best help you?
[0:30] Also, I don't remember what I said word for word in the email, but I'm 25 years old and still live in my parents' basement.
And then right now I just work a job as a fabricator, but I do have a college degree.
But long story short, with college, I went with it from pressure from my parents.
Because at the time, when I was 18, it was either they sent me to college or they kicked me out of the house.
So I just chose to go along with it because I didn't want to get kicked out so I spent two years as a computer science major but then dropped out because I wasn't liking it so I switched to manufacturing engineering, with an emphasis in welding but I did get through the degree but I wasn't very passionate about it so I just did enough to pass and then here I am now just still living at home not much of a dating life and not much of a social circle cool.
[1:28] Wow. Okay. I'm obviously happy to hear more about childhood and all that kind of juicy stuff. Sure.
[1:36] So as a kid growing up, both my parents worked.
My dad worked nights and my mom worked during the day. So I saw my mom more, but I spent a lot of my childhood with my grandma.
But she was very cold, verbally abusive and physically abusive at times.
So it was being hit with a belt or sometimes during the shower, if you did something bad, she'd grab me in the head and put my head into the tile of the bathtub.
Tub um i actually don't remember too much about my childhood other than spending it mostly in front of a screen i didn't have that many friends growing up i actually never went to a friend's house until i was until until i was in like the fifth or sixth grade so when i finally had one friend i went to his house but i actually never really had that many friends over here because, i was just too nervous to bring them home now.
[2:32] Was that because of your grandmother or or your parents?
[2:35] So it was mostly with my parents because I was always too nervous to ask them.
So we would either be dropped off at our grandma's house or I'd be at home, if that makes sense.
So my dad's mom was the one that took care of us mostly when we were kids.
But then when my mom would come home from work, then we'd go back home. So it was school.
And this was during elementary school. So elementary school, it was home, Then our grandma's house would take care of us.
And eventually when we got old enough, she no longer took care of us.
We just went back to our house.
I think around junior high.
But even then at that point, since I didn't have that many friends, junior high was kind of a struggle because I only had a...
I actually didn't have that many friends in junior high. I remember just spending it mostly by myself.
[3:26] First of all, I mean, just really appalled and incredibly sorry that you had such a violent grandmother.
She said the verbal abuse, terrible, smacking your head against tiles and this kind of violence.
[3:40] Throwing a slipper at my head one time. Yeah.
[3:44] I mean, it's beyond appalling and wretched.
It and you know i mean this stuff is even even you know i'm it was bad before i became a dad and now i sort of look at my daughter and you know she's just great and so much fun and and the idea that i mean somebody would be violent or i i don't know i mean i got it morally before i became a dad and now it's just like it's really baked into my bones just how just appalling and terrible all of that stuff is for kids and sorry yeah to.
[4:16] Make things worse too it was like one of those situations where since it was just so normal in my family i felt like there's no one that ever there to help me because like my dad was also just as bad too so one time.
[4:33] It was your dad's mom is that right it.
[4:35] Was my dad's mom yeah.
[4:36] Yeah sorry go ahead so.
[4:37] I think because my dad did it and the therapist said, I told the therapist during the first session that I know I got, abused and hit as a kid but I don't remember a lot of it because a lot of my childhood is like blank.
I can tell you I have a few memories of some really bad ones like, my brother told me that a current house that I'm living in right now, the side window for the house is if If you were to push it, the glass would come out. And one time I locked myself out.
So I went to try to push it out and I broke the window.
But no, obviously just out of fear because if I do something, it usually means I get yelled at or beat. I didn't say anything.
I just walked to my grandma's house and then pretended like I didn't break it and they discovered it was broken.
And then when my dad discovered it was broken, and was like, he thought someone had broken in.
But then eventually he was like, okay, if you tell me the truth, I won't punish you. Nothing will happen.
And I told him the truth. I told him I broke it. And I still got beat later.
[5:52] Wow, God. Yeah.
[5:56] When I told the therapist that, I think he was the first person I ever told that story to.
I'm still feeling emotional now, but when I told the therapist that, I actually cried. for the first time I can't remember how old.
[6:07] Were you when that happened.
[6:11] I can't remember the exact age but I remember it was like the 5th or 6th grade, That's when that happened.
[6:20] Right. Okay. Sorry. Sorry. Go ahead.
[6:24] No worries. I forget where we're at.
[6:28] Well, I was expressing sympathy and all of that. I mean, I have some questions, but I don't want to interfere with what it is that you're saying so I can hold off.
[6:36] Yeah. So I did tell the therapist that. I told him, like, I started crying.
I told him I actually don't remember the last time I cried.
And after thinking about it, I'm like, oh, my God. and I now got home from the therapist and I've actually never really had anyone by most of my life actually feel sympathy right now with you Steph it's like yeah I actually don't know what it's like to have someone feel sympathy for me because my family doesn't really have a lot of no, emotions they don't really show a lot of that stuff.
[7:12] And what happened I guess as you got How old were you into your teenage years and so on?
[7:19] So as I got older, junior high I was spent mostly alone.
Junior high and high school for me was rough with grades, especially with my relationship with my dad, because it was all about my grades.
And the worst thing was I had it worse than my brother, because with him, he did average-ish.
A, Bs, and Cs. I was straight A's, but to be honest with you, straight A's in public school isn't that hard.
[7:56] If it was anything less than a B or C, it was verbal abuse.
I think one of the worst ones I remember was in seventh grade. I had a C in a class.
Then for Christmas, I just always wanted an iPod.
The thing is, I think it was because of my mom's doing, but I actually ended up getting one.
But rather than just giving it as a gift to your kids, I remember he took the iPod out of my hand.
He was like, what did you do to earn this? And it was supposed to be a Christmas present.
Then it was immediately taken away from me the next week because I had bad grades.
But most of junior high was living in fear because of my grades.
Because I knew anything lower than a B, it would just be stuff would get taken away. I'd get yelled at.
And then that was all through high school and junior high.
I think high school, the worst one, the tipping point was, I think it was my senior year.
Because I took harder classes. and my mom tried to reason with him, just be like, hey, he's taking harder classes, so maybe his grades might drop a little bit because they're college level.
Then I think I had a C in one class, B or C in an AP class. And I remember that class was pretty hard.
[9:21] I remember he went to, I remember the morning I just remember waking up and I was hearing him yelling at my mom telling her that you're erasing a bunch of dumbasses, your kids are failures.
And then he came into my room and then he kicked me into my bed and was very, all the verbal abuse.
My mom actually stepped in front of us and now she stopped it.
Then after that, I went to school and nothing happened and I just, I did what I could in that class.
I ended up with like a B or something, thing but it was yeah that's pretty much my middle school and high school experience is just trying to keep the grades up not because i wanted to is because i just didn't want the house to explode because of that and.
[10:13] What do you think i mean i assume everyone who listens to what i do here is pretty pretty damn smart but what do you think was the barrier to to you getting really really good grades motivation or it was tough to study at home or like was there some reason.
[10:30] So my motivation to get good grades well i don't know that's.
[10:35] What i'm asking.
[10:35] Um my motivation to get good grades was you know just so my dad wouldn't yell at us that's the only reason why i cared enough to do well in school the one class i actually did do well in that enjoyed was welding in class you really like working with my hands but most of the other boring, stuff I didn't like history I, I didn't really have that much motivation to do it other than to get the grade so I can not get yelled at when I get home.
[11:06] Right. Okay. And I mean, I suppose there's a certain amount of like, well, what's the point? And also you're being bullied to do something by people you don't necessarily respect.
And that's kind of, then you just feel like you're complying and you lose your soul.
[11:17] Yeah. Cause like it was most of it. I can tell you it was because it wasn't, he was, cause my dad's afraid of how other people think of him.
So his thing was like, I don't want you kids to end up like the people at my work who failed school.
Oh, well, quick anecdote. Both my parents are from the Philippines.
So they grew up poor. And then they came here to the States in 2002.
And then I didn't come here until I was two as well. So I'm just pretty much full American.
But it's because he just didn't want people to think that he was a failure because his kids weren't doing well in school. Because he wanted to use us as a status, like look at my kids to show up.
So that's the only reason why he was putting so much pressure on us, because he just was obsessed with his own pride or something.
[12:12] Right. I mean, it's a status-based culture in a lot of ways, right?
[12:16] It was never about what I wanted. It was always about what they wanted.
That's why they wanted both their kids to go through college, even though I didn't want to go to college.
I wanted to actually go to a tech school and become a welder, but that's when either you go to college or you're just kicking out of the house.
And at the time, I was like, I don't want to get kicked out of the house.
I don't know what to do, so I just went with it.
[12:43] Right, okay. Do you know, just before we get to sort of mid-teens and dating stuff and all of that, Do you know why your parents didn't work that much to spend time with you when you were little?
Were they both working like crazy? Is that why you had to spend time with your grandmother? I'm not quite sure I followed that. Sorry if I missed it.
[13:03] Yeah, because my dad works for the postal office. So just to make money and pay for the house, he worked overtime.
So he worked swing shift from like four to four. Sometimes he wouldn't be home till six.
And my mom worked just a normal nine or eight to eight to five o'clock job and she wasn't home till the evening so i didn't really i didn't really see much of my dad was mostly um with my grandma and my mom so it was my mom would come home from work and then pick us up and then, take us home until we're old enough to take care of ourselves in the house, Does that answer your question?
[13:44] Yeah, I get it. And, I mean, you get paid pretty well at the post office, right?
I mean, is there some reason why they both needed to work?
[13:56] I think it's because since they grew up so poor, they just wanted, you know, both to just have money.
Because they wanted to have money to support both of us.
But to be honest with you I think part of it was because my mom wanted our own space because at first when they first moved here when I was super young when I was three or four they lived at our grandma's house because they were here first but eventually my mom was like no I want us to have our own place so that's when she started working so they can afford a townhome as well and then they just kept working They both just kept working, and they just left us with our grandma because they were like, oh, we can both work.
We can just leave the kids with grandma to take care of us or take care of the kids.
[14:47] All right. I'm just going to do something a little unusual here, and bear with me.
[14:55] Sure.
[14:55] U.S. Postal Office average salary, 2005, let's say, right?
[15:05] It yeah we got our own house like oh yeah it's actually 0506 that's when they so um.
[15:14] Let's see here so average salary right now usps it's 65 000 a year, that's pretty good right, it's a little tough to find it historically but you know I mean they've got a strong union and it's government pay so all of that so.
[15:39] Both my parents because my mom worked actually what happened her first job was like a part just somewhat of a part time job at because I live near an Air Force base I won't say specifically but she worked there, because they have what's called the BX.
It's kind of just like the government Walmart.
Then she worked there as a cashier because she was also going to school for finance.
Then eventually she became the finance manager at one of the cities.
She's been there since for the past 10 plus years.
Her salary was $70,000 when she started.
So I think she almost made as much as my dad for a bit, but then my dad started making more because of his time there at the post office plus overtime. Right.
[16:33] I mean, so, I mean, do you have siblings?
[16:40] Just one.
[16:44] Yeah, I just, I guess, why wouldn't your mother want to not work part-time or work, and why wouldn't she want to be home with you and your sibling when you were little?
[16:57] I actually don't know, because most of my childhood, I don't remember my mom spending too much time with us.
I just remember being with my grandma, because that's kind of one of those.
And the horrible thing about that, they used that to guilt me and my brother.
Like, you know how much we worked as, when you guys were kids, to support you whenever I do something or just talk, or if I ever talk back to them?
They'd use that as an excuse or manipulation tool to get us to do what they want.
[17:28] Okay, but that's just total crap. Sorry to be so blunt. That's total crap. I didn't ask you to.
I would rather i mean the response to that is always well i i didn't ask you to and i actually would rather you have not had me quote parented by this insane violent grandmother i actually wanted to spend time with you guys but you never asked me so don't talk about me like you just did what you wanted right you guys wanted to go and work you wanted to make the money and obviously Obviously, you didn't want to spend time with us that much.
So, yeah, don't even try and pretend that this is any kind of sacrifice for me. It's not what I wanted.
I would have actually much preferred to spend time with you guys than with crazy violent, beat my head into the bathroom tile grandmother.
So, I mean, don't even try.
[18:19] And, yeah, my dad treated me the exact same way as my grandma did, too, because of how he was raised.
[18:29] Right, right. I mean, it's one of the things that's really kind of essential about immigrants as a whole, is that if you're going to move, say, from the Philippines to America, and you want your kids to grow up, in america and and be you know part of sort of the mainstream culture in america, then you kind of need to figure out how people raise their kids in america, and try and do something like that like you can't just i don't know like if i lived in ireland and then i decided to move to japan raise my children in japan i wouldn't just raise them like i was still in ireland because that would mess up my kids in terms of fitting into the general culture i don't know if this makes any sense but it's oh it makes a hundred percent you gotta you gotta go Go to the host culture and figure out how your kid's going to survive in that.
[19:19] Oh, not to survive, but flourish. But it's like people just come from, you know, craptastic child abuse cultures and just reproduce that in America where there's less of that and then say to their kids, off you go. Good luck.
You'll fit in just fine. I raised you like we were still in the Philippines.
Now you're in America. Off you go.
[19:42] Yeah, because it was so odd to me when I because, my giveaway, my hopefully this doesn't give away where I'm at but there's a lot of Mormons where I'm at, so most of my friends in high school were Mormon and the funny thing about Mormons is just like there's a lot of in-group preference so I happen to have what I call the young Mormons so their families were very welcoming to me too, but a good friend of mine when I went to his house and I just saw, the way his family treated, their kids and their relationship between their mom and dad and their siblings, I was like, this is so weird to me because of the way I was because they would just talk to each other normally.
They were able to make jokes and tease each other and then, Yeah, it was just very friendly. I'm like, yeah, if I were to try to do that at home, it would be a completely different story.
[20:38] Right. And then because you've had a lot of the American influences, you don't quite fit into the Filipino stuff, but because you've got the Filipino stuff, there's a bit of a gap. It's tough. It's tough.
[20:49] Yeah.
It's relieving to finally have someone that understands. There's many people who don't understand the weird situation where I'm in. I don't quite fit into the Filipino culture, but sometimes growing up, I struggled to fit into the American culture.
[21:07] Right. Yeah. I mean, you're between two worlds, right?
And then you get into philosophy. You're doomed! No, I'm just kidding.
Well, maybe a little. But only in the short run. In the long run, I hope it works out. I'm sure it will.
But yeah, I mean, I think that's kind of underappreciated by a lot of people, just what a huge challenge that is.
And then good you know heaven help you you then have to find some girl who who also is between two worlds but not too much one way or the other and and it's like it's tricky right.
[21:40] Very especially here you know where i'm at because of the mormon influence it's very hard like, it was very difficult dating in like high school because you know there's a lot i mean dating around it was i had a couple very nice mormon girls but obviously this is when i then they found out i was an lds it was yeah you're you're cool but i can't really do anything with you and then i yeah i understand but for sure it was very hard to relate with some people who didn't really understand me between two worlds and.
[22:15] I mean yeah i mean obviously i mean as you You know, I came from Ireland to a bit of Africa to England to Canada.
And yeah, it's tough to find how that stuff all works in together.
So yeah, I do sympathize. And have you been back to the Philippines?
I mean, how do you find that world?
[22:38] I only went there once when I was six, and I don't remember too much.
But it was I just remember going around but I remember also not fitting too much to how the kids were there because since I was from America all the kids were just, actually it's been so long, I remember I fit into the family-ish quite well, but it was mostly being asked, how are things in America type deal?
But me being so young, I just remember just going around, just seeing the malls and going to the museums. I don't remember too much about the whole thing.
[23:16] But what about your parents obviously have their Filipino immigrant friends and family and so on.
How is it for you getting along with that kind of group of people who came from the Philippines and first generation?
[23:35] So first generation is like in the States because the closest I've come to that was a family reunion on my mom's side a couple times.
And I got along quite well with them because most of them were very integrated.
Because I think my mom's mom, so that grandma, her brother was a doctor.
So on that side of the family, there was like multiple doctors.
So those guys were very, very smart.
So when we came and visited, I got along because they were, like I said, very integrated to the United States.
So there wasn't that much of a big difference there.
[24:13] Right, okay. So yeah, tell me a little bit about what happened in your mid-teens.
You said you got a little bit of the LDS dating stuff, but that couldn't go very far.
[24:22] Yeah, most of my mid-teens was just growing up in the suburbs.
I did have one friend group in high school.
We would just normal teenage go out, no drugs, no alcohol, and then we would just hang out.
Dating was very tough because I was very and I still kind of am very socially anxious in high school so I didn't really branch out from from those group of friends and then when I would try to date I wasn't aware of it but I didn't have that well of social skills and didn't really know how to interact with girls very well what's.
[25:04] But what specifically happened.
[25:09] Let's see. Oh yeah, so one of my very, very first dates, I didn't really understand how to talk to her.
So I didn't realize that she wasn't interested. So I kept, for lack of a better term, simping.
So I kept going after her, even though she just sent me one word text messages.
And I think during one of the dances, she actually ditched me for another dude.
And so wait what.
[25:42] Do you mean.
[25:42] Uh so during the dance she would just disappear randomly say oh i gotta go do something and i would just hang out with my friend wait sorry you.
[25:51] Mean you would ask her to a dance and then she just goes to you for a while.
[25:54] Yeah she'd ghost me for a while and then during the slow dances she'd come back but then after that i kept going after her like telling her to text her and be with her because i really like you know like liked her, then eventually my friends were just like dude you gotta stop this is bad so eventually i just you know moved on but i kept becoming an ongoing theme because there's a i would just find a one girl i really like and then just get obsessed but then not realize you're not interested in me but i still you know keep going and that happened with two other girls after her if i remember right Right.
[26:34] Okay. And did you, as far as dating went, did you go on many dates or did that play out at all?
[26:42] Not very many dates. The only real times I would just go on dates was for dances, but actually going out and just asking someone, it didn't really happen very often.
It happened a couple times, but not too much. And even after graduating from high school, I didn't really ask out or date anyone.
I had one girlfriend.
[27:09] Sorry, go ahead.
[27:11] Yeah, so I only had one girlfriend after high school who was a co-worker and that did, I can tell you that one, that one didn't end very good.
[27:23] Yeah, go ahead.
[27:25] So, it was my first job. We were pretty much just packaging and picking stuff from shelves. I picked her job at a warehouse.
So, she actually ended up asking me for my Snapchat. So she actually came on to me.
So we started talking a little bit. I was like, okay, pretty sure this one's, interested in me. A quick little background.
So when Mormons, when they turn 18, they have to go on missions.
So at that point, pretty much all my friends were gone on their missions.
I didn't have any friends.
[28:03] So I was like, okay, this girl seems seems interested and i remember we were texting back and forth and she asked me if i was still a virgin i told her yes and she's like well just let me know and i'll be that girl and i'm like okay, so i took her out on a date and we ended up and she likes you yeah got it yeah yeah yeah, and then you know we went on a date and i told her on that date i'm like yeah i don't want to try anything in the night, but then I ended up kissing her but I was in I was at a rock climbing place and it was kind of awkward, and then she seemed kind of awkward afterwards and my head went like crap so we went back in the car and I was like yeah I apologize I was probably a bit.
[28:48] Rushing me to do, but then she unbuckled and threw herself onto me.
And I went, okay. We went with that. And then later that night, we took her out for dinner, and then we went to a car parking, lot, went to the very top of the parking garage, and then that's when I lost my virginity. She just pretty much love-bombed me there.
And then we dated for a little bit afterwards, but it ended with her cheating on me with her ex.
But what happened during that relationship is when she started dating me, she's like, oh yeah, I'm single right now.
But it turns out when she started talking to me, she was still technically dating that guy who she lived with.
[29:34] Yikes.
[29:35] Yeah. Yeah, so she lived with, and the thing is, too, I missed all the red flags, because that guy also gave her rights to work, but I didn't, well, I did put two and two together, but I kind of just gaslit myself, like, no, maybe they're just friends, but no.
Because she's a hip-sang roommate, but it was really just the guy that she was living with.
But what makes everything worse here is the entire time we were together, it was all unprotected sex because she said she was on birth control she lied and?
I did not get her pregnant thankfully so so after things didn't end well with her, after she had cheated on me with the ex-boyfriend, she had eventually started dating someone else at that job a couple months later after we'd broken up and then I ended up just leaving that job because I couldn't tolerate it anymore.
And yeah, that's how my first relationship ended. Actually only a relationship.
[30:44] And how long were you guys going out for?
[30:47] From the time we started talking to the time when we broke up, it was about six months.
[30:55] Right. And when did you find out she was cheating on you?
[30:59] So what happened was she started losing interest because I obviously started having sex at the time.
I wasn't very emotionally stable.
So I kept leaning on her for complaining to her about my problems.
I think she got fed up with it because she had her own stuff.
So towards the end of, I think, the six-month mark, I remember the night before I found out she wasn't really texting and I was giving her rides to work.
I'm like, oh, I'll still just go pick her up the next morning.
I go to her apartment and I see her ex-boyfriend's car there.
I call her and she's like, don't come inside. Just wait for me.
I told her, no, have him take you to work. I'm going to work on my own.
Then she said, no, nothing happened. in, I'm like, no, I don't believe you.
[32:03] Right, right. I'm sorry about all that. Very, very tough.
[32:10] But no, if I remember her, she had a bunch of issues.
I had the, to be blunt, the Captain Save-A-Ho complex because she had all the problems with her childhood.
I think her mom passed, and then her dad was very abusive, so she lived with her aunt.
So I was like, you know, I have two parents too. I'll take you in. I can fix you.
Uh yeah that didn't go well.
[32:42] Right and did she end up do you know did she end up going back to her ex.
[32:47] Um she didn't end up going back to her ex she ended up dating another guy there at that job, it was like one of the forklift drivers and they ended up um, together but I did find out from another co-worker like a year later that I ran into so I asked him well whatever happened to her he's like well she and that forklift driver got pregnant, but then they broke up and she ended up running off with the kid back to California, and that forklift driver also had another kid with another girl so that forklift driver has like a kid with her and a kid with another girl so I'm like well at least I avoided that mess.
[33:33] Yeah amen for that right, okay and I mean how did you spend your time as a teenager when you weren't dating and stuff like that.
[33:42] Most of it was if I remember right either just in front of a screen playing video games and hanging out with my older cousin we'd go out and just, shoot and do stuff I mean go out shooting or, other than that no I just remember being playing a lot of games on the computer spending time alone or actually before I got here I was like on playstation.
[34:10] Right, right, right. And is that still a thing that's happening for you, like video games?
[34:21] As of recently, no. But throughout college, yes, there was a lot of time just in front of a screen just playing games.
That's where a lot of my time went.
[34:32] Is that solo stuff or communal?
[34:35] Communal uh i would say communal because i was in the overwatch and then i had i met some discord friends there and that's pretty much where my social life was was i remember it would be mostly going to school and then since i didn't really have very many i didn't really make any friends during college i would just hang out with my older cousin and we would just go out and do go out and go shoot and do some of his hobbies which went on to me but if I wasn't with him I was just at home playing games or just talking to discord friends.
[35:14] And with regards to I mean if you're not dating or having any girlfriends I assume like most young men these days who are single sexual needs are met through pornography and so on.
[35:24] Yeah I was for like from 8th grade because when I first was exposed to it to, I'd say until two years ago, would watch it.
But eventually I noticed that it was having a bad impact on me, so I actually quit on my own. So I haven't touched any of that stuff in a couple years.
[35:46] And what was the bad impact?
[35:50] Well, one because one thing that happens is if I, how do I explain it? so if I have a crush on someone and then they go for someone else I picture her and like the other dude like having sex so yeah like total.
[36:12] Cuck stuff right.
[36:13] Yeah total like pretty much like cuck stuff and cause you know cause your brain is just so wired to just watching other people do it that's how, my brain is there was I tried a little bit of online dating I had a couple of six like I had a couple of dates but I didn't really go anywhere where.
[36:31] Right, okay. And when was the last time you approached a girl, asked a girl out, pursued a girl?
[36:36] Actually, I mean, it was...
Earlier, it was like my current job. I guess I didn't learn my lesson.
But there's this girl at work that I've been kind of same situation where I've just been obsessed with.
And that was I approached and tried to ask her out in September.
And then we went on one kind of a date.
I asked her out to Boba. and I remember she was late and I teased her and told her and said it was kind of a red flag for you to be late on the first date and she's like, well, we'll see if this is a date or not. Like, crap.
But we went out. Boba just talked for a little bit and texted her over the weekend and kind of died off and I didn't really talk to her for a bit.
And a couple weeks later I asked her out again to a haunted house but she She wanted to bring her roommate.
So I just went with it. So I just went to the haunted house with her and her roommate. They're both kind of quiet. And I was like...
[37:44] I should say, I'm inviting you to a haunted house so I can ghost you. No, I'm just kidding.
[37:48] I'm just kidding.
[37:48] Don't do dad humor on kids. All right, sorry, go on.
[37:54] But I noticed there, at that point, I don't have that much dating experience.
I was asking around for some help. and I've read some little bit of that red pill content from Rolo Tomasi so I have some, understanding on how to talk to girls so I was like okay well I don't want to just sit here and be quiet so I'll just try to make conversation but, it felt like I wasn't breaking the ice very well other than when we started going inside the haunted house and then we go through the haunted house at the end I don't like how this is going so I just told them well I'm just going to head home it was fun hanging out with you guys, and for a couple months Once we didn't say anything to each other at work, we kind of were just like talking.
Um, and then she started, so the timeline is from September, like late September is when I went out with her first, then two weeks later I asked her out again.
And then after that we didn't talk for a couple of months and I noticed she started taking interest again.
Like, okay, she's coming back around, started talking.
Then, uh, I asked her, Hey, well, well, let's go hang out at your place for a little bit. but then I tried to, and I went for a move. I got rejected.
Things were kind of...
[39:14] Sorry, and how long ago was this?
[39:16] So that, I went for the move in November.
Yeah, it was in November around Thanksgiving. And then things just went quiet. It was awkward.
So we didn't really talk to each other at work until a month ago in January.
Where she came back around again, and she started talking to me, and I'm like, okay.
So I hung out with her again, and I asked her to just, you know, if she just wanted to hang out.
She's like, sure, but again, I guess she didn't want to be alone with me, so she invited her other roommate, and so we just went out, hung out for a bit in her place. I didn't try anything.
And then afterwards, actually at the end of the hangout, I asked for a hug.
I think I was really weird about it, and then they were like, because she didn't want to I cussed at her about it I was trying to be I was trying to be playful but I guess it came out really weird because afterwards, that Monday um, I noticed that she didn't seem like she wanted to talk to me.
And I asked her later that week, like, hey, what's wrong?
Pretty much. And she's like, well, that hug thing kind of weirded me out.
I'm like, oh, yeah, that's true. I can see how that would weird you out.
And pretty much after that, ghosted me, and she's going after another guy at work.
So I'm like, crap. So I haven't spoken to her since.
[40:42] Okay. Okay. And do you have any sort of thoughts or ideas about how to get a girl to talk to you?
[40:54] Nope, not really. Well, what I've been doing, because I noticed that from her, from when I took her out for the first time, how bad my talking skills are with people, like how bad I am holding a conversation.
Conversation I was very fortunate she's kind of a chatterbox she was really good at carrying conversations but I noticed I'm like yeah I'm kind of quiet and don't talk much so what I did because I found some advice on YouTube was like well if you suck at carrying a conversation what you do is just when you're out in public like with cashiers or just in line with someone just start some small talk so I've been doing that to help you know learn how to talk to people, And then when I took her out for the...
That third time with her roommate, I noticed that I was able to hold a better conversation, and it was more fun.
[41:49] What is it that you're attracted to with these girls? I mean, obviously, there's the physical aspect.
Is there anything else? Because, you know, normally, if you are, you know, getting along with someone or you like that person, usually the conversation flows fairly easily.
That's one of the ways you know that the liking is kind of real rather than just physical. So what is it destroying you to these girls that you can't talk with?
[42:13] My thing with her was because she could actually talk, and I didn't have to.
She was very talkative, and she had a lot of energy.
And that's pretty muchó Okay.
[42:24] So she takes a burden off you. That's nice, I guess. But what aboutólike, what is she doing?
What are her virtues? or is she thoughtful, kind, considerate, warm?
Do you share values? Like, I mean, or is she just like, oh, thank goodness.
She talks so I don't have to. I mean, that's not much of a basis for a relationship, right?
[42:45] After thinking about it, it was, I can't really think what I like about her other than the fact that she just talked to me pretty much. That's the only thing I can think of.
[42:58] So could you think of a girl that you have been attracted to that has some value compatibility, anything, anything, where it's like you share some, I mean, I assume you're into philosophy, are they into philosophy?
Do you share tastes in art or life approaches or religion or non-religion or like what?
I'm trying to figure out how you're picking these women.
[43:26] Women most of these women I've pretty much have just picked because I was physically attracted to but I'm not really into thinking about that stuff you just talked about.
[43:41] Okay, so it's just lust?
[43:42] Pretty much.
[43:43] Okay, so the women are totally wise to not go out with you. Is that fair to say?
[43:48] Yeah.
[43:48] Like, it's a good call, right? I mean, you know, if you have a daughter at some point in your life and she says, yeah, this guy wants to go out with me.
He doesn't even know what I think or what I care about or anything like that, but he keeps looking at my boobs. What are you going to say?
[44:03] Find another guy.
[44:04] Yeah, like don't date that guy, right? That's not good, right?
That's a sin, right? Like lust, or whatever you want to call it, right?
So, let me ask you this. If you sort of think about applying this filter, going back through time, right? You think about applying this filter.
Can you think of women or girls that you have known or met that could fit the standard that you might have something in common?
In terms of more than just the body parts that fit together, roughly?
[44:38] Actually, I can think of one.
I think it was one of my, like way back in high school, one of my homecoming days. She was very nice, very sweet.
I think she also wanted to be, you know, stay at home mom.
And looking back at her, she really wasn't into, you know, partying or any and all that stuff.
Virtue, she's very honest, very honest girl.
And I actually didn't really try to get to know her too much because, you know, lust.
But I lost my train of thought.
[45:17] Well, why didn't you date her?
[45:21] What happened was with her, I went for a kiss, but she didn't want it.
It was a really awkward kiss.
[45:28] Oh, you did try and date her, but she didn't want to date you?
Okay, got it, got it.
[45:42] Anyone else um actually one more was my prom date very similar she wasn't again she didn't want to date me but I remember her just being, very similar to my homecoming date where I talked to her but she was actually very nice too very, actually now that I think about it I didn't really get to know these girls very well I never really asked too much about them I never got to know them very well.
[46:19] And is that because you felt awkward in terms of conversation.
[46:23] Yeah I was very awkward with conversation because I was always too afraid to talk about myself or I didn't know what questions or how to you know talk to and get to know people.
[46:35] Right. Okay. Okay. And is there anything that I need to know in terms of where we are up to now?
I mean, do you want to tell me a bit more about college? I know you did computer science two years, didn't work for you.
You did the mechanical stuff and got some experience in welding or engineering, but that didn't work for you too well. Is that right?
[46:59] Yeah, so the talk about college is I did enough just to graduate because the welding, the actual manufacturing engineering part, I'm not too interested in.
So mostly I was just into the welding part, just physically welding.
But since I didn't go to a tech school and it certified me, I only did the welding labs.
So my friend was a, and since I wasn't too passionate about it, because what you're supposed to do is during college for engineering you're supposed to go in for an internship, but I actually never worked in the field.
I just kept working part-time at a hospital because my boss at the time was, very flexible in my schedule.
So I kind of just stuck there because the pay was part-time and the pay was somewhat decent.
So I just stuck through there but never actually went into my field until after I graduated.
I didn't have any experience there, but my friend works at this the company I'm working for now is a fabricator.
He's like, well, I can probably get you a job here and then you can get experience and then use your degree later.
And this was in August when I started working in my current company.
So I've been working in fabrication since. And I talked to the engineers so they know that I have the degree and they know I'm trying to work towards it.
But I'm just looking at the work they're doing and I'm just telling myself, no, this really, I I really wasn't.
[48:28] Into this. This is not what I want. I'm just currently thinking about doing a career change while I'm still young.
Maybe I'll just change my path.
[48:41] Right. Okay. Okay. Got it.
[48:45] The funny thing is too during the hospital is looking back since I was there was a lot of CNAs that were my age but I didn't really know how to approach and talk so I kind of just kept to myself.
And looking back, I was, I'm like, dang, that would have been a good time to practice talking to girls when you're surrounded by them, but I never, you know.
[49:09] Well, okay, but sorry. So what's, I mean, other than lust, right?
Why do you want to talk to girls?
What value do you see? I mean, you had a pretty rough start with femininity, right? Your grandmother beating you up and your mother abandoning you to that and not just abandoning you but delivering you to that.
I mean, what's your positive experience with women or females as a whole?
[49:37] Actually, not very positive overall.
[49:43] Not very positive. I really don't know what to make of vague statements like that.
[49:49] Okay.
Um, I think overall my experience with women hasn't been too good.
[50:00] Are we still doing all this vague stuff? Hasn't been too good, not too positive, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
I mean, the value you get out of it, this conversation is going to be the less, um, equivocation or the less goo that I get.
[50:15] So I'm not sure how to answer. Okay.
[50:24] Well, tell me the negative women that you've experienced in the course of your life.
[50:32] The most negative one I experienced was just that ex-girlfriend.
But then after that, I never really went out and tried to talk to women in general.
So the only bad experience I've had, like experience with women I've really had, was just with that ex-girlfriend, just it being, you know, totally horrible.
[50:59] So not mother-grandmother?
[51:03] Mother and grandmother. No, my experience with my grandmother is totally horrible.
Horrible right now with my current relationship with my mom we don't really talk much even though we live together so we don't talk too much or interact very much other than when I see her when I get home but we don't really talk because she's just glued onto her phone.
[51:35] Is your grandmother still alive?
[51:37] She is so with her, right now she's I don't see her very often but with my older cousin who's in his late 30s she kind of, my cousin still attached her so she still goes to his house I'm sorry he still what her?
So the way I see it is with my older cousin my grandma still treats him like he still ate and my older cousin went through the navy but then came home, then moved out and to his own house but she'll go to his house and clean for him and clean the house once a week but, when I see them interact it's like she's still treating him like he's 10 years old like she'll still nag him and everything, and that's kind of what my mom is doing to my older brother, is they still kind of baby him but they kind of just leave me alone they don't really say much because there are times where I have I've, you know, just stood up for myself and just been like, no, I don't want to, don't talk to me that way.
[52:59] Okay. And what about in terms of extended family or other moms or aunts or other grandmothers in terms of positive female interactions or women you would admire, women you would look up to and would want to have in your life?
[53:17] So this is just women that I know of.
[53:20] Well, that you have some interaction with and not just someone you've read about in a book or something.
[53:27] I would say, yeah, one of my best friend's wife.
She's a stay-at-home mom. And she refuses to... She's like, yeah, I'm homeschooling my kids.
I'm not staying in a government school. And she's been a pretty loyal wife to my friend.
Yeah, because they're high school sweethearts. I watched their whole marriage I saw them get together get engaged and now they're on their kid number two.
[53:55] And so you admire her.
[53:58] Yeah alright that's good I actually just visited him yesterday I can't believe I didn't think about that right.
[54:08] Right okay and And how do you find talking with her?
[54:17] I actually enjoy it. We get along quite well. She talks to me.
We catch up. She's a very positive person.
I like to joke and tease. I kind of treat her like a little sister, even though we're the same age.
[54:32] Right. Okay. Does she have any friends?
[54:37] Her? No. No, she's been busy with the kids, so she doesn't really go out and talk to other friends.
Other than our other friend from high school, she kind of will talk to his wife, but those two kind of just...
[54:56] I mean, does she have any friends for you?
[54:58] Friends for me? No, she does not.
[55:03] And right now, you have no particular prospects for dating. and as far as particular prospects for career nothing's imminent if I understand this correctly.
[55:12] Well what I'm thinking of doing is a career change is since I'm not really liking this field other than the welding part but I actually want to but, for long term I don't think being a welder is going to pay as much as I would want it to even if I just stay in one for many years so I'm actually thinking of going to aviation just becoming a pilot, and just doing a total 180 flip and just changing careers.
[55:39] And what makes you think of piloting?
[55:42] Well, since I've grew up here near an Air Force base, I've always just liked seeing the planes take off.
I've always been curious about it.
That's one of those things, if I see you on YouTube, I'll just watch the footage.
Or if I'm out traveling, I'll be on the plane and then just think about, what is the pilot doing?
What is it like to pilot one of these things? Yes.
That's how it goes with jets or just helicopters, especially when I saw the lifelike pilots working at the hospital when the helicopters would land.
That would be such a cool job to have.
I started thinking about it more recently. I'm like, you know what?
I think I might actually like aviation because one of those things was in the back of my head trying to get through school. I didn't want to go to school.
[56:27] It's a lot of work to become a pilot. Obviously, there's the training.
You need to get a certain number of hours in and so on, right? Right.
Have you looked into how long it's, how long does it take to become a pilot?
[56:37] It'll take a couple of years, but.
[56:40] I mean, a paid pilot, somebody with a good career.
[56:43] Yeah. So for a good career, actually, my therapist was the one who I told him about this.
He said, yeah, if you go through the flight school, since the pilot situation right now, I think junior, he said, junior pilots are going to start making at 120 K a year.
And I'm like looking at the work. I'm just like, I don't, I wouldn't mind actually doing, learning that type of stuff. it does interest me so putting in the work I wouldn't mind doing that.
[57:08] Got it got it okay so I mean as far as career goes sounds like you got it down as far as dating goes not much right, and so what would you most like to get out of the conversation with me tonight.
[57:26] So my thing is just learning or just some advice on how to be more social, because right now I'm just trying to go out there and just meet new people, but I'm struggling to talk to people or just approaching girls in general since I don't really have a lot of friends. It's kind of tough.
[57:49] When you say you don't have a lot of friends, you've said that a couple of times now. I mean, how many good, close, solid friends do you have?
[57:58] Two.
[58:00] That's not too bad.
It's not too bad. Just so you know, it's not terrible. All right.
And are they in the same kind of boat that you were in?
[58:14] So both of them, one's the husband of that girl I was just telling you about, and the other has a girlfriend.
It's the one that I work with right now. He's the one that got me the job.
But most of the time, they're kind of just with their girlfriends.
Friends. I'll ask to hang out occasionally, but they don't really...
They just want to spend time with their families. We'll go out occasionally, but nothing too crazy.
[58:46] As far as close friends you can spend a lot of time with, it's not those guys, right?
[58:50] Yeah.
[58:51] So is it zero?
I'm not trying to be critical. I just want to know what it is.
[58:59] I'd say it is zero.
[59:01] Okay. all right and why do you want to socialize i mean i know that sounds like an odd question but it's just the kind of thing like what's the purpose like what why do you want to socialize what do you want to get out of socializing well.
[59:15] From just what i've seen on just youtube and looking at some of the red pill content it does help to have the no social group to go out and just do stuff with to be a bit more, you know, interesting.
[59:31] Well, I mean, you're in your mid-twenties, right?
[59:33] Mm-hmm.
[59:34] So people, I mean, people usually either have a social group by now or they don't, right?
[59:39] Yep.
[59:40] So you'd either need to gather together other people with few, if any, social skills or you'd need to find some group that already has people, right?
[59:48] Yeah.
[59:49] So what do you think would be more practical for you?
[59:52] I think it would be more practical for me to find a social group and just try to get in there rather than try to make my own.
[1:00:02] And so think of it from the other, I mean, this is the resistance, right?
And I'm not trying to dissuade you. I think it's great to try and find a social group, but you got to look at the challenges, right?
So if you look at it from the other, right, there's a group of, I don't know, eight friends, they've known each other from like, I don't know, junior high or something like that.
They understand each other's jokes. They have all this shared history.
They know each other very well.
And you come along, right?
So what's their incentive to bring you in?
[1:00:34] Uh you know what i don't know i don't think there would be much incentive to bring me in other than.
[1:00:41] That's why it's not that's what you got to fix that right yeah right it's like otherwise it's just like uh hey uh brad pitt i'd love to come with you for the to the premiere of your movie okay and what do you bring it to the table well i really want to come to the premiere yes i understand that but you're not part of the movie you're not you know gaining me any positive right so these are people who've got good social skills you're coming in or you're around and you don't have particularly good social skills what would you what would you bring to the table like that that's what you got to know okay does this make sense yeah because if you can't answer that question well what do you bring to the table then you're just kind of faking it and you're just kind Then it's all about you and what you need, right? Well, I need a social group. Yeah.
Lots of women need a good husband. Doesn't mean I'm going to leave my wife, right?
[1:01:42] You know, that actually does make a lot of sense, especially with that, you know, the two girls that I did try to date is, I actually don't know what I brought to the table.
[1:01:54] Well, and they didn't either, which is why it didn't work out.
[1:01:58] Okay.
[1:01:58] So what could you bring to the table because that's why if you want to if you want to join an existing friend group then you have to bring a lot to the table.
[1:02:12] Because they already have a friend group. Why would they want to take the risk on someone new?
I mean, they already have eight people who hang out. It's been working for 10 or 15 years.
Everyone knows it. Like, what's the plus of a new person?
That's what you've got to kind of answer. And listen, lots of people have to answer this all the time, right?
They go to college. They move to a new place.
Whatever, right? I mean, they've got to make a whole new friend group.
Or they've got to, right? Right?
So that's the question you've got to ask and answer with confidence.
What do you bring to the table? I mean, it's the same thing with a job, right? I need a job is not a way to get a job, right?
It's like, yeah, I get it. I need a million dollars. It doesn't mean I'm going to wake up tomorrow with a million dollars on the doorstep, right?
So that's the question. Now, if you want to make your own friend group, that's different, right?
Because then everybody has that need for the friend group. But then, you know, you're trying to build a friend group, which is certainly possible, but it's tough to do when you're trying to build a friend group with people who don't have any social skills, right?
I mean, it can be done, right? It can be done. But you're trying to, you know, if you want to join a choir, you've got to be a good singer, right?
So, that's the question, right?
[1:03:33] Because, I mean, the reason I'm saying all of this, sorry to interrupt, the reason that I'm saying all this is that you grew up with very selfish people around. Your parents were very selfish.
Right they they they wanted to come to america so they bring you to america they don't help you integrate much they don't train you much they put you not not only are you not in modern america you're in like 1200 years ago philippines with your ancient grandmother right, so i mean they really kind of crippled you right yeah and it was you know your dad got angry he just indulged and yell and hit and he'd lie to you and and your mother wanted to go to work and and your dad wanted to work overtime, and nobody ever asked you what you want, right?
Like, okay, well, what's best for you, right?
What's best for you?
[1:04:22] And that's the thing I've noticed, too, is whenever I would try to hang out with friends or just be a part of the group, I would just do what they wanted, if that makes sense. It was because.
[1:04:38] You're not used to having your needs met. You're not used to negotiating needs because your parents just told you to jump and you said, how high?
And that's in my view, I think more than in just my view, that's bad parenting.
It's very bad parenting.
[1:05:01] So, yeah, that does make a lot of sense. Because now looking at it, it's like, I keep asking myself, well, I want a friend group, but not asking, well, what do they want?
[1:05:13] Yeah, I mean, you wanting a friend group is great. I want a Lamborghini.
The question is, what value do I bring to the Lamborghini owner?
Right? So, it's great. You want a friend group. Fantastic. Then that's good.
You've identified something that you want, but then you have to say, okay, so what do I have to offer?
I mean, if you want to be a welder, you've got to offer welding skills, right? You want to be a pilot, be nice if you knew how to fly.
I'm not sure it's required these days, but it's nice.
[1:05:46] It's a plus.
[1:05:50] And the same thing with girls, right? With women, right? You want a quality woman? Fantastic. Fantastic. Good stuff.
What do you bring into the table? Right? It's a fundamental question of life. Why choose me?
Why would someone choose me?
[1:06:09] And, you know, that's kind of the issue I think I've also had is the asking why choose me.
Because there are times where I'm just like, because of all the abuse from the kids, like, one of the things my dad would do is just be like, you're stupid, you're an idiot.
So I never really had that much self-worth.
[1:06:27] Of course. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, and that's selfish on his part, and destructive, and wrong.
[1:06:33] So, yeah, I never really saw myself as someone really worth much to people.
[1:06:39] Sure. Well, not just, I mean, weren't you, sorry, I don't want to put words in your mouth, so tell me if I'm wrong, of course, but didn't you perceive yourself as an irritant, as a negative, as a problem, as someone who didn't get good grades, as somebody that annoyed people all the time, as somebody that made people angry?
As somebody like didn't you just experience yourself this is just negative and a problem i'm just negative and a problem.
[1:07:04] Yeah because like now you mentioned that is whenever i'd hang out with my friends i'd you know i'd go do something or just you know express myself but then i just have i just leave and go home with like really bad anxiety like oh no what do they think of me maybe i know that well they haven't responded just like really bad anxiety of what they thought of of me because i just thought i was just a nuisance right and that's because that's.
[1:07:27] Your parents did i mean really just about the cruelest thing around and the cruelest thing around is to have a child and then neglect and reject that child, like that is just about the cruelest thing around because you can't get you can't get your sustenance from anyone except your parents you can't get your, social skills, your sense of self-worth, your sense that you have value.
Like, you can't get that from anyone except your parents.
And so they have you, and then they kind of starve you in a way.
And then you've got to go out there in the world and try to make a go of it.
[1:08:20] I think that's why I've been obsessing over this girl at work since August, September.
And just now that you say that like you know that's I think I've just been obsessing with her because I'm just trying to tie myself worth like if I get her I'll you know get my needs met that I didn't get from my parents if that makes sense no.
[1:08:46] That totally makes sense so that's that's a very I think that's a very wise thing to say to sort of work and try and understand.
[1:08:52] Because with her it's just been like non-stop like, obsessing with my friends and that's what Ashley sent me to actually my friend's girlfriend was the one and I guess she's like because she's going to therapy she's like I think you need to try it too and I'm like and listening to your shows I'm just like yes I think it's time because there's a disconnect here because the way I'm just uh feeling with her is like very like a strong attachment even though we didn't I don't you know know her too well don't know what I like about her but then I'm just like obsessing as if we were you know been dating for years, so i'm just like okay there's something not right here and that's actually what triggered me to you know call in because i'm like yeah there's there's something wrong this isn't good because if this is going to happen with her it's going to happen with like people after her well.
[1:09:42] Yeah so avoiding the pain of neglect neglect is one of the worst forms of abuse in my opinion the only thing that's is sexual abuse but neglect is is really horrible because, You feel like you don't have anything to offer. You feel on the outside.
You feel like you're, through a piece of thick, dark glass, you're watching everyone else in the world have fun, and get their lives going, and you just feel lost and abandoned and ghost-like and half not there, and this is why you take refuge into video games because the lack of self that comes from neglect is really tough.
And listen, again, I'm not trying to put words in your mouth.
This is what I think might be happening.
I don't know for sure, obviously, So if I'm saying anything that doesn't fit with your thoughts or experience, let me know and I'll completely recalibrate.
But I think that's probably the first place that I would look.
[1:10:33] No, I think you struck something there because I never thought of it from the perspective of neglect.
Since I wasn't getting my needs met, I can see why I'm so tight.
[1:10:47] No, you have to get your needs met. Right. Right.
I mean, I hate to sort of be a nitpicker, but if someone locks me in their basement and they don't feed me and I say, well, I'm just not getting my needs met, it's like I'm trapped.
[1:11:05] Yeah.
[1:11:06] No, it's torture. And I'm not saying your parents were consciously doing this, but the effects are torture.
Ostracism arouses or stimulates the same part of the brain as physical torture.
Neglect is physical torture for children because it puts you in a constant state of anxiety. Do you know why?
Because they might not fucking feed me. They might not save me.
They might not protect me.
I might be picked last if there's a wolf around. They might scoop up all the other kids that may be coming to me last.
I might not survive. The bond is not strong enough that I feel secure in my safety and attachment.
You're unprotected and helpless and vulnerable.
You know, children are easily hunted and killed. I don't know if you've ever seen these videos. You can see them sometimes on social media.
It's some toddler playing by the glass of a lion's enclosure or a lion place at the zoo, or a tiger. Have you ever seen those? No, I've not.
[1:12:17] So the kid's just.
[1:12:18] Yeah, so the kid's just dum-dee-dum, they're playing with their feet or whatever, and what is, on the glass, right? And what's creeping up on the other side of the glass?
[1:12:26] The tiger.
[1:12:27] The tiger, right? And the tiger pounces. Now, that little kid's gonna, like, he's gonna have his head ripped off in about a tenth of a second. Right.
Children, toddlers, children, we're like death magnets at that age.
Like we fall into the fire, and you know, or we go out and we just eat some, oh, we ate the red berry, which will kill you, not the blueberry, which is tasty.
You know, I said when I was a kid, my father was playing, I was a baby, I think I could crawl but not walk, so I was probably about, maybe a year, a little under, and my father was playing tennis and left me unattended outside the tennis court. I crawled around.
I guess I saw a weed killer.
I guess it was in a bright container, and kids, of course, think of bright containers as tasty or whatever.
This is, I think, long before any kind of childproof caps or whatever.
I drank weed killer, and I almost died.
[1:13:33] Wow.
[1:13:34] Because I was unattended. my father was not protecting me. It's one of the reasons my mother divorced him, by the way.
I think they divorced before that.
So I was very young. I don't remember this, other than I have vague memories, but I'm pretty much convinced that those vague memories are just people telling me the story or me hearing the story.
But I think it's one of the reasons. I think it's one of the reasons.
I think that they were already separated at this point, but I think it's one of the reasons why I was never allowed in my father's care again, alone. alone and it never happened and i guess i when i was 16 or whatever i went to visit him but, so like you if you don't have an attentive caring parent you live in a constant state of anxiety because you have nothing between you and the almost certain death that will arise, if you're unattended this is why children want to be close to their parents this is why they love sitting in their parents laps this is why they love laughing and playing with their parents because it's creating that bond that means the parent will tell them, well, don't eat that, eat this.
Don't fall into the fire. Don't tumble down the cliff.
My brother was left unattended in a car when he was very little and he took the parking brake off because he was just so bored.
He was just playing with stuff. Car rolled down a hill.
[1:14:52] Oh.
[1:14:55] Like, I don't know, risky business style, right?
There was a kid in my neighborhood who got out the wrong side of a car and just stepped into traffic and got instantly killed by a car speeding past.
Because he was unattended, he was unprotected.
Neglect arouses death, panic in children, which is maybe why you feel this sense of anxiety sometimes.
[1:15:27] Yeah, because whenever my friends or a girl I'm talking to would stop talking to me, I would just feel anxiety of just being a bandit.
Friends wouldn't talk to me, or they'd leave me on read, or not invite me to something. You feel kind of invisible.
[1:15:48] Right? mm-hmm exactly right because you were invisible to your parents and identity comes out of interaction for human beings because we're social animals right so identity comes out of interaction, and you talked about some of the brutality of your grandmother did she play with you did she enjoy your company did she look forward to seeing you were there any big hugs and kisses and monopoly games or what i don't know whatever she would play nope.
[1:16:12] Nothing it was just she was very rude because take a little anecdote is I'd be sitting and watching TV.
She would just sit in front of me and just change the channel without even asking first.
[1:16:26] Like you're a ghost. Like I'm a ghost. Like you don't matter.
[1:16:29] Mm-hmm. Right.
[1:16:31] So you don't matter.
[1:16:33] Same thing with my parents.
[1:16:34] Your preferences don't exist. Sorry, go ahead.
[1:16:36] Yep. I try to express myself growing up sometimes and they would just actually physically just ignore me.
[1:16:44] Right. I mean, I get the little laugh there, but this is seriously not funny, right? I don't mean to be mean or harsh to you or anything like that.
[1:16:50] No, no, it's true.
[1:16:51] Like, it's really not funny. Children whose parents don't take delight in their existence are growing up half crippled.
I mean, it doesn't mean you've got to stay crippled or anything, because you've got to identify what the issue is.
But it's brutal. It's incredibly stressful for children to be neglected.
Which is a lot of times why children will act out just to get parental attention.
Like, if you don't care about me at all, I'm going to get left behind when we pack up camp and go and follow the bison herds, right?
So I'd rather, like, I'll provoke you into getting angry at me and venting on me because then at least I'm serving some value to you.
If I'm not serving any value to you, even as a punching bag when you're upset, then you're just going to leave me behind.
So you've got this moat of parental indifference and grand parental indifference you have this moat around you which is i mean it's the foundational question of all us kids who were neglected but damn man if my if my mother and my father didn't even care about me if my grandmother didn't care about me if i'm just an annoyance and an irritant to them, who the hell is going to care about me ever.
[1:18:12] And you know you just hit it home there because that's just usually how I've felt most of my life too just like who cares about me.
[1:18:19] Right, So it's kind of tough to get your life going, right? You don't want to be your parents. You don't know how to be different.
[1:18:34] Yep.
Because, like I said, any time I just, even with some of my friends, every time I express myself, there's fear afterwards.
It's like, oh, did I express it too hard?
Did I do something that upset them? Will they leave me?
[1:18:52] Right. Yeah. Yeah, and it makes perfect sense because, of course, when you would upset your parents, right, they would just attack you or ignore you or abandon you or whatever it is, right? Does that make sense?
[1:19:07] Yeah, because that's where a lot of my approach anxiety comes from, trying to talk to a girl, like I'd say at CNA at the hospital job.
I just try to start a conversation. there are times afterwards i'd be like oh did i say something wrong maybe she didn't like me just afraid that no afterwards you'd just be like who's this weirdo what.
[1:19:32] Right right right right i'm just a weirdo i don't have any value to offer nobody's going to take pleasure in my company and i'm not interesting i'm not funny uh and i've just but but i desperately need need, I desperately need company while at the same time not feeling like I have anything to offer.
[1:19:52] That's how every single time I felt like when I talked to a girl who's really cute, I'm like, I don't think I'm good enough for her. Maybe I don't offer anything.
Just a dude.
[1:20:06] Right. I'm just an NPC. Looking for a home, right?
[1:20:11] It's an NPC, just a sim character.
[1:20:22] So, I mean, tell me a little bit about what I'm saying and how it hits you and feels like it fits.
[1:20:28] No, it fits perfectly well, the feeling of abandonment and neglect.
Because that's how it usually will, especially with that ex-girlfriend and that current girl now, it's just when they stop talking to me or I notice they were just starting to pay attention to me less, it was just panic of like, oh my gosh, I'm being neglected.
What do I do because these guys actually showed me attention they showed that they these guys actually show like they're interested in me I'm actually interesting and then when they started, tapering off and stopped talking to me I was like oh gosh and I just felt this panic and anxiety and depression because of it but what you said really hit home.
[1:21:11] So what to do.
[1:21:17] And that's why why I've just been thinking, I was like, hey, what do I do to make myself feel like I actually have value in people's lives?
Obviously, just not be at the basement and play video games and actually go out and do stuff.
I think that's the big question I'm going to be asking myself, is what can I bring to people's table?
[1:21:41] Yes, and please understand that it makes perfect sense that you feel this way.
Did your older brother how's he doing.
[1:21:52] He's just the only friends he really has are his online friends on discord, and he's just content with just being at home because he moved out for a little bit then rent was too expensive so he moved back in most of the time he just spends you know on his weekends just on the computer talking to his online friends, And I actually like.
[1:22:17] Gaming or what do you mean? Talk, talking about what?
[1:22:19] Uh, gaming. Yeah. He's got, uh, friends that he's met on discord.
He's met them in person before, but most of the time is he's just sits at home and just games.
Doesn't really go out anywhere.
[1:22:32] Right. So he's kind of, uh, I mean, he's kind of a warning, right? Isn't he?
[1:22:40] Yeah, that's him and both him and my older cousin.
Because my older cousin's in, he's like his late 30s, but still isn't with anyone.
But most of the time he spends on the weekends, just either with his mom and that grandma, or playing video games.
[1:22:59] Right, so, I mean, no.
[1:23:01] And ironically enough, he's the one who showed me you.
[1:23:04] Oh, good, okay. Okay. Tell him I said hi. So no one who's been neglected in this kind of way is doing it all well. Is that right?
[1:23:13] Yep. No one.
[1:23:14] No one. Okay. Right. So good for you for breaking this cycle, right?
[1:23:21] I'm actually trying to get my brother to move out with me this summer because I told him either move out with me or I'll figure it out on my own.
And I think he's leaning more towards moving out because I told him like look we can't be like this because his computer is in the living room of the basement, that's where like the only place we could put it that's where his setup is, and what triggered me to just get on him was because he put a shelf where his area is I'm like you're too comfortable here man, this is not good like a snack.
[1:23:50] And drink shelf.
[1:23:51] Just like a buck shelf for his like figures so I told him no don't It's figures.
[1:23:57] Oh, it's like figurines?
[1:23:59] Yeah, figures in books. He's into like Gundam, like anime stuff.
[1:24:03] Oh, good.
[1:24:05] So I was like, no, you do that at your own place.
[1:24:07] This is who you want to move out with?
[1:24:10] That's true.
[1:24:11] Is this necessarily the best idea?
[1:24:15] Now that you say it that way, probably not, no.
[1:24:20] I do want to learn how to swim. If I could just get a boat anchor around my leg, I appreciate the challenge.
[1:24:28] No, that's true.
[1:24:33] I mean, I don't know. I mean, I don't know your relationship, but I wouldn't automatically assume that it's necessarily the best idea. Just, you know.
[1:24:40] That'll be something I think about now.
[1:24:42] Well, it could be something like, I don't want to do it alone, but there's a price to be paid for that, right?
If he's, I mean, is he going nuts with his life or is he like, yeah, good, everything's good?
[1:24:52] For him right now, it's just, you know, everything's good. Just, you know, stay at home and just save up money.
And I recently listened to your podcast with the, i think that another guy who just thing was living at home because i saved money but your argument of it doesn't save money is true it really doesn't it's better just to be out there and just have the fire under your ass but his thing was like i just want to live back at home because rent's too expensive and just wait for the housing market to crash that's what his strategy and i told him well that's not gonna happen.
[1:25:23] As long as immigration stays high so all right Right. Yeah.
I mean, and you can't let other people, you know, bad environment situations and so on.
You know, when I was, I mean, in the early 90s, there was a terrible recession.
I couldn't find work. I'm still going to find, still got to do something.
Still got to make it up with your life. It's not war, right?
All right.
All right. So then the question is, of course, what do you do, right? I mean, there's always this, okay, so there's the insight, and then it's what you do.
[1:26:00] That's, I actually don't know what to do. Well, right now- I can tell you.
[1:26:07] Go ahead. No, no, listen, if you've got more to say, I don't want to interrupt.
[1:26:10] No, no, go ahead.
[1:26:11] Okay. So you have to fiercely, fiercely, fiercely disagree with your parents' and your grandmother's assessment of you.
You guys are wrong.
And it was terrible to me that you were so wrong.
So you have to very, I mean, I'm not going to get all fired up here, right?
But you have to extremely strenuously disagree with your parents ignoring of you.
If that makes sense.
[1:26:49] It makes sense.
Because now looking back at it now like someone's like you know i was actually, i think i was like when i was a kid i had a lot of energy i think i was an i think i was an interesting kid i.
[1:27:08] Mean you're into philosophy you're okay in my book.
[1:27:10] So but.
[1:27:13] No you like you guys are wrong and they'd say well look of course we were you know i mean they might say something Something like, well, how wrong are we?
All you do is sit and play video games. How interesting are you?
[1:27:25] You just struck a chord there. Right?
[1:27:28] You say you're so interesting. What evidence is there of that?
You got no girl. You got no friends. You got no career.
And we're like, but that's on you as the parents.
Do they know your grandmother's violence?
[1:27:50] Oh, they know.
[1:27:51] Right. Do they care? Nope.
[1:27:55] No. No one really did.
[1:27:58] So they bring you to America where children are raised more peacefully, and then they have you raised by the Filipino cryptkeeper.
[1:28:08] Mm-hmm.
[1:28:10] And they're actually throwing you back in time when taking you to the new world.
Right.
So, no, they didn't do right by you.
They did not do right by you.
And you've got to strenuously disagree with their assessment of you.
You're wrong.
Yeah, I'm having trouble now, but that's because you guys didn't give me...
You know it's it's sort of didn't give me what i need it's sort of like saying uh you say i'm stunt lick if you were i'm stunted because you didn't give me enough food when i was growing up and they say well look how small you are we didn't need to feed you much, it's like no no i'm small because you didn't feed me you didn't not feed me because i'm small.
[1:29:16] Because like to go back to that cousin is what they do they always nag him about how he doesn't have a wife yet or how he doesn't have a girlfriend but considering he grew up in the same conditions as me both his parents, actually same way both his parents were they weren't around he was stuck with that grandma and they get mad at him for not no finding a wife finding a wife by now.
[1:29:40] They don't say to themselves gee I wonder why all All our children in the family, I wonder why it's all so disastrous at the moment, right?
[1:29:52] Uh-huh.
[1:29:58] They don't ask that question. It's all the kids' fault. You kids just don't do it. You're not doing the right thing. You're not doing it right.
[1:30:05] Yep and then if you try to push back against you against them it's look at what we did for you growing up we fed you.
[1:30:17] Oh wow you know who else gets fed fed political prisoners.
[1:30:21] Yep they.
[1:30:23] Get shelter and healthcare, yeah, they didn't love you Oh, well, we showed our love and money and it's like, oh, God, what do you even say?
What can you say?
[1:30:45] And the thing is, too, with my dad as well, part of the reason why he didn't want us out socializing with kids is because he's like, God, these fucking white people don't know what they're doing. They're stupid.
He's like a hard Democrat. So if you're white, you're racist.
[1:31:01] Oh, like so he's got the whole anti-white thing going?
[1:31:03] Oh, yeah. It's excellent.
[1:31:06] I'm sure this is all going to work out beautifully.
[1:31:08] He actually almost kicked me out of the house because I voted for Trump.
[1:31:12] Wow.
[1:31:13] I actually know what happened was I was going to, then he took my ballot and voted for me.
[1:31:19] Oh, did he? Yeah. Literally engaged in election fraud. I'm sure that people would love to hear all about this.
[1:31:29] It was like, yeah, every single time on the TV.
Same actually they were just talking about how like my mom's boss makes more than her bus because you know he's white so he gets like more money because of these people i'm just like ha yes yeah don't choose.
[1:31:48] This to come and live in a anyway yeah.
[1:31:51] No it's.
[1:31:51] Uh it's excellent stuff.
[1:31:53] I actually grew up for a little while during growing up it's because i was actually just like it rubbed off on me i'm just like gosh these freaking white kids and then looking back Back now, ironically enough, all my good friends were no white kids.
[1:32:07] Well, and it's funny, too, because certainly for myself, it's a certain kind of lighting trick, or sometimes it's the way the shadows fall, but I can actually look kind of white, like, in my own way.
I can pass for white. That's my general approach to life, which I'm quite excited about. I'm just kidding. I'm about as white as they come.
Okay.
[1:32:31] I actually don't If you were to see me you wouldn't think I'm Filipino Because of my height Oh yeah.
[1:32:40] You're like the Filipino ant?
[1:32:42] Oh, yeah. I'm 6'2". So when I go to a family reunion, it's like Gandalf amongst the dwarves.
[1:32:50] Oh, the hobbitses. Yeah, yeah.
[1:32:53] Why do you get so big? Well, they neglected me emotionally, but at least they took care of me physically because they fed me. So I got big.
[1:33:00] Is your brother tall too or just you?
[1:33:02] Just me. I'm the weirdo. I'm the tallest one in my family. I am six inches taller than my brother.
[1:33:06] I'm trying to think of a way you don't fit in somewhere. Like you do or don't fit in somewhere. It's always that thing, right? Yeah. All right.
Okay. Yeah, I mean, you could pass in the Philippines, but mostly as a man-god.
So, you know, who would demand virgin sacrifices. Maybe that's how you could meet girls. I don't know. But that's important to remember.
So, yeah, you just have to strenuously disagree, and that's just going to mean getting angry.
You know, if you don't get angry at mistreatment, you accept it deep down.
Right? So if you don't get angry at the mistreatment you received as a child, I don't mean yelling or screaming at anyone, but just recognize and accept the feelings. Whatever you don't get angry at, you accept.
So, I mean, if this conversation has helped you sort of understand that, yeah, this neglect is really tough, and my heart goes out to you.
Seriously, it's really, really tough.
[1:34:00] Thank you. Yeah, because this conversation really has opened up that, And I'll bring it up to the therapist, too, that open of that neglect is explaining why I feel so strong feelings when I get rejected, pretty much, just like when I get ostracized.
Because I've just been neglecting most of my life, because right now I'm a starving guy on an island, so a graham cracker looks really good right now. Oh, yeah.
[1:34:30] No, absolutely. And you're desperate to fill that hole left by a lack of parental affection, so you're just grabbing at people like a drowning guy, grabbing at people or logs or whatever.
But then it's really all about you, and any reasonably wise woman is going to be like, hey, man, I really sympathize, but I can't fix this.
[1:34:52] I can't i can't fix this because this is something that's in your past, and if i try to fix this like i try to love you and and this and that if i try to fix this it's not going to work and you're going to end up getting really angry at me because you're going to blame me and get angry at me rather than get angry at your parents.
[1:35:13] Because you want to do anything but get angry at how you were treated, which I understand.
I mean, getting angry at how you were treated when you were a kid would have been very dangerous, right?
But, I mean, you're an adult now and you can process these feelings and, you know, you're in therapy. That's great.
And, you know, you can bring this stuff up with your therapist.
And, you know, if it's something that still resonates, maybe something you can work on. But, yeah, that's whatever.
I mean, it's a big important thing for me was this sort of personal growth stuff was like, yeah, if I'm not getting angry at it, I clearly accept it.
Like, I don't get angry at aging.
I don't get angry at being bald. I don't get angry at, like, whatever, right?
I mean, because I accept these. I don't get angry at gravity.
Like, I accept these things.
Because to get angry at something you can't change is kind of crazy.
But to not get angry at injustice and abuse and neglect is also kind of crazy.
[1:36:11] Mm-hmm.
[1:36:11] If that makes sense.
[1:36:13] It makes a lot of sense.
[1:36:18] So, yeah, I mean, you certainly talk about it with your therapist.
I mean, it might be worth having a conversation with your parents, you know, something non-volatile.
But, you know, in my view, I mean, I think they just kind of neglect. It's really tough.
It's really tough. And you owe your children attention and affection as much as you owe them food and shelter.
[1:36:40] Mm-hmm. And that's, like I said, a good point that I just never really thought of until now, just like of how much neglect I had from them physically, because they're just like there, but just at the same time, not there.
Because the only time we'd ever spend together is when we go out to eat or if we go on vacations. But even then, going on vacations, that's a whole other anecdote.
[1:37:05] Right, right. So, yeah, I think that's most of what I wanted to get across.
Is there anything else that you wanted to... mention other than you know of course i really do want to reiterate my my deep sympathy for this but it sounds like we did some useful stuff and i'm certainly very pleased about that no.
[1:37:20] It was very helpful it's just right now i'm just i'm trying to think what i can do to bring value to other people's lives like what what can i do to bring people to bring something to the table.
[1:37:33] Well yeah but the first thing you have to do is reject that you reject your parents assessment that you weren't interesting or weren't worth spending time with or weren't worth investing in or whatever it was that happened, you have to get mad at that first before you can start saying, well, what can I bring to the table?
Because everything you could have brought to the table would just be so much easier if your parents had shown you that level of affection and interest, and it would be automatic.
You got to rebuild something here, which you shouldn't have had to rebuild, or you shouldn't have had to fix, if that makes sense.
[1:38:09] So what would getting angry at it look like, or how would I go about it? Because I'm not sure.
Because it makes sense, but I'm not sure what to do.
[1:38:23] I mean, it's different for everyone. but you know I mean you deserved love and affection as a child and the people who withheld it from you did you great harm, and you were owed that you deserved that you needed that, and all the children I know who were loved have benefited enormously that's the real aristocracy it's not money or race or the real aristocracy The real, the major, massive advantage in life is what you loved.
That's because, you know, you and I and people like, we got to just dig our way out of crap and rebuild all the basics.
And it's really annoying. It is. It's really annoying.
[1:39:12] Learning how to talk to people, it's something they should have taught me.
It's really annoying to learn.
[1:39:18] Yeah, it is. It is. It's so annoying.
[1:39:20] I have to go through all the awkward interaction when I say something weird and not knowing that's not socially acceptable.
[1:39:25] Oh, having to second guess everything and oh my gosh, no, it's horrible. It's horrible.
[1:39:31] It is very relieving to talk to someone who also understands because I try to talk to my friends about it but since they are no, that was a big eye-opener since they were probably socialized, they can't relate because they don't understand because their parents didn't neglect them.
[1:39:43] I mean, yeah, there'd probably be some other things that they're dealing with but maybe not that one in particular but Yeah, that is tough.
And again, I sort of can't give you a roadmap because I don't tell people what to do.
And even if I could, I wouldn't. But I think just having that understanding that you were neglected, which is to me a terrible form of harm to a child.
And that's given you some real challenges that you shouldn't have had to face.
And of course, it's given you the quarter century of this kind of unease and anxiety and feelings of rejection and fear that you've said the wrong thing and all that kind of stuff.
That shouldn't have happened. You shouldn't have to deal with that.
And I'm sorry that you do. And I don't know what you do with all of that other than, you know, I think the natural feeling to having been wronged is to, you know, hurt and anger.
And I think those are healthy, healthy things.
[1:40:40] Okay.
[1:40:40] Alright.
[1:40:44] Thank you so much, Stef. That was very helpful.
[1:40:46] You're welcome, my friend. Listen, I really appreciate the call, and I'm glad that we had a chance to chat. I hope you'll keep me posted about how things are going.
[1:40:53] Oh, yeah, for sure. I'll keep you posted. But I will say it's just very relieving to have someone actually show sympathy.
That does fill my heart. It really does.
[1:41:01] I appreciate that, and I wish you the very best. I'm sure you'll do beautifully.
All right, take care. Have a good night.
[1:41:06] Thank you. Thank you much.
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