0:00 - Introduction to Antinatalism
4:42 - The Financial Consequences of Childlessness
9:11 - The Importance of Choice in Motherhood
11:16 - The Critique of Parental Sacrifice
13:08 - The Debate on Selfishness and Society
In this episode, we delve into a provocative conversation surrounding the choice of a young woman, Abigail, who has boldly declared her decision to live a child-free life. I explore the societal expectations that often accompany motherhood and the implications of such a significant choice on familial relationships and societal structures. Through a personal anecdote involving my niece's announcement, I dissect the reactions it provoked, particularly from a family that often upholds traditional values regarding child-rearing.
Abigail's casual revelation at a family dinner was met with shock and disbelief from her mother, who viewed her announcement as a rejection of not only familial expectations but also a challenge to the societal norm that values procreation above personal choice. Drawing from this moment, I reflect on how deep-rooted beliefs about the purpose of life and generational continuation influence our reactions to such declarations. The core of my argument is rooted in the idea that choosing not to have children, while it may enable individual freedom and the pursuit of personal ambitions, simultaneously raises questions about personal accountability and societal contribution.
As I navigate the complexities of Abigail's choice, I challenge the notion that a life devoid of children is inherently fulfilling. While I respect her autonomy, I highlight the latent issues of individualism versus collectivism in this context. What does it mean for future generations if individuals choose to turn away from parenthood? Does such a choice undermine the sacrifices made by preceding generations, who contribute to the cultivation of a familial legacy? The dichotomy of personal happiness versus societal responsibility is central to this discussion.
Furthermore, I critique the double standards that exist in societal perceptions of choice. The conversation paves the way for an exploration of whether self-fulfillment inherently justifies the rejection of traditional roles, contrasting it with how similar claims about financial independence might be perceived—particularly if expressed by a man. The implications of these perspectives highlight underlying biases and principles that often guide our societal narratives about reproduction, responsibility, and reciprocity.
As I conclude, I affirm the importance of choice in reproductive decisions while simultaneously advocating for the recognition of obligations that come with those choices. The realities of aging, financial stability, and social interdependence cannot be overlooked in the personal pursuit of happiness. Ultimately, I position that while it is essential to support individual choices like Abigail's, we must also acknowledge the broader consequences on community and future generations, ensuring that self-interest does not overshadow societal sustainability.
[0:00] All right, so this is an article. It's worth seeing just how this kind of programming works. It's absolutely not organic, in my humble opinion. Why I'm proud my niece is choosing a life without children. She's rejecting expectations to pursue a life of her own design. So this is standard antinatalist nonsense. And so how do you do this, right? Why I'm proud, proud, choosing a life without children, rejecting expectation to pursue a life of her own design so that of course is very very positive and so on right and then what you do well you have this picture of this woman, who's like a friendly happy off the shoulder positive she's in a social situation she has a handsome guy to the left and she's smiling and she's content and she's happy right so the way that you program people is, what you do is you say, well, they're content with their choices, but other people are upset with their choices, right? So this is a standard. It's really sad how often, how much, and how regularly this works. Well, so my niece, you guarantee, she's happy and content and certain and serene with her own choices, and other people are outraged and can't believe it and right so this is how you you start with this kind of stuff so let's see.
[1:28] So this i guess is a quote from this uh niece uh just so everyone knows i'm not having kids, we were at my brother's for dinner when my 26 year old niece abigail casually announced it like she was talking about switching shampoo brands, right so she's just casual she's fine she's smiling i don't know if this is the same woman probably stock photo but it's just fine she's happy she's smiling right, my sister-in-law went pale my sister-in-law went pale right so she's abigail's perfectly happy and content it's not a big deal and the fact that abigail is casually announcing it means that she's serene and content and happy my sister-in-law went pale abby don't be ridiculous she finally managed to say you'll change your mind you're still so young right so rather so first of all just saying i'm not having kids is a big freaking deal right saying you're not having kids to your mother is a big freaking deal because the deal is we have kids and then you have kids.
[2:38] That's the deal. Very few people would bother having children if they knew that their children weren't going to have children because what would be the point? What would be the point of going through all that sacrifice, all that expense, the $100,000 to $200,000 or $300,000 that people spend in the sights of no sleep and all of the focus and time and effort, drive them around and take them to volleyball and all of that work and effort. Why would you bother doing that if your kids didn't want to have kids and it was the end of the line?
[3:05] So that's the deal. You're alive so that you'll pass life forward. In other words, if you say you're not having kids, you have invalidated to a large degree, all of the effort that your parents have put into you. You're only alive because I'm only alive because that's the deal. You have kids and hopefully you can, and there could be some reasons why you can't, but that's the general deal. So saying this, this casually announced it, like she's talking about switching shampoo brands. That's weird like to just say to your parent i'm not having kids is a huge freaking deal which means that abigail is for some reason kind of a moral monster it would be like um this is a million times worse like a bob casually announced a dinner that he's having he has a second family and and my his wife was outraged and couldn't believe it but bob was perfectly serene and like you know what i mean like it's just bizarre right, abigail just raised an eyebrow unflinching no mom i won't.
[4:14] So that's interesting, right? Well, she's not that young. And of course, the question then would be, well, first of all, don't call her ridiculous, right? That's not right. That's unfair. So why wouldn't you want to have kids? Well, having kids is a positive experience. At least that's certainly been my experience. And it's a great deal of fun. And it's the deal. It's the deal. It's to me, the people who don't want to have kids at all for some ideological reason or selfish reasons, usually the same thing.
[4:42] It's saying well I want to take from society but I don't want to contribute to society, right so it's like all the selfish people who just consume resources and never do any charity never help people never provide anything back and all of that kind of stuff at least in the past the Boo Radleys of the universe used to just, sit in their houses and rot away on their own so yeah the people they take take take right um no mom I won't and of course she is young, right?
[5:17] And who's going to take care of her? So what are the odds that Abigail is going to save the $2 million plus that she needs to sustain herself from 65 to 85, right? What are the odds that Abigail is going to do that? So the deal, of course, should be that if you don't have kids, then you have to save millions and millions of dollars for your old age. If you don't have kids. If you do have kids, and you raise them well, and you love them, then hopefully they will take care of you in your old age, and that will be the case. People are fair, in my experience. People are fair, deep down, most people, right? And if you raise kids to be unfair, it's because you've done something wrong as a parent, right?
[6:05] So, Abigail... Will not, you know, almost certainly not, Abigail is not going to save the two plus million dollars she's going to need to sustain herself over the course of her retirement. So what Abigail is going to do is she's going to take the money that she should have poured into children and she's going to pour it into travel and fun stuff and cool trinkets and bric-a-brac and white elephants and, tchotchkes and nonsense and makeup and maybe not makeup if she's more feminist, that's fine. But she's not going to say, well, I'm not having kids, so how am I going to sustain myself in my old age?
[6:44] Well, I'm going to take the, let's say she would have had two kids, 200K, a pop, there's 400,000. So I'm going to take that money and I'm going to wisely invest the $400,000. Plus I've got all this extra time because I'm not having kids. So I'm going to work harder and I'm going to make sure I have that $2 million. We all know that that's absolutely not going to happen. And therefore, Abigail is going to rely on other people having children in order to have the money and services, support and health care and electricity and plumbing and water. Right, when she gets old, you can rely on absolutely everyone else to have kids so that she can parasite off them when she gets older. Now, again, maybe she'll be the one in, I don't know, One in a hundred women without kids who do take all the money they would have poured into kids.
[7:41] And save it, and then she won't be as much of a burden. That's fine. But it's unlikely. Because people don't want to have kids because they're hedonists. And hedonists aren't very good at saving. So that would be gross, right? So then, a smile slipped under my face before I could stop it. I love my kids deeply. But I also love women having the choice when it comes to their reproductive decisions. If Abigail says she doesn't want children, I believe her. While everyone else seemed ready to tell Abigail she was being ridiculous, all I could think was, good for her. All right.
[8:26] And of course, women should not have children if they don't want children. Of course, this goes without saying. Of course, women should not have children because having a choice and not being forced into anything is super important, right? My body, my choice. And women should be able to control their own bodies, right? And this is not an abortion debate because she's not going to have children, right? So it's not like she's going to have a bunch of abortions. She's going to have, I don't know, her tubes tied, or she's going to make sure she's always on birth control or something, or not have any procreative sex or something like that. So that's fine.
[9:12] Women should never, ever, ever, ever be pressured or forced into motherhood. No question. No question. All right? And men should never be forced to support women who haven't saved for their retirement in their old age. My body, my choice. A child is a result of a woman's choice over her own body. And a man's wages are the result of his choice over the actions of his own body. We type, we labor, we hue, we hack, we hoe, Oh, we build, we break men. We control our own bodies, and our wealth is the product of our own bodies. And my body, my choice, has to mean, of course, that I should never be coerced into taking the products of my body and being forced to transfer them to someone else against my will. Right? So, yes, women should absolutely have the choice when it comes to their reproductive decisions. And men and women, of course, should absolutely have the choice when it comes to our wealth. Our wealth, which is the product of our bodies. My body, my choice. My wealth, my choice.
[10:33] So, the reality is that she can have her choice and I would try to convince her otherwise, but if she chose to be childless, That's fine, but then she also has to uphold my right and everyone else's right to not be forced to pay for her if she becomes very poor in her old age. Because my body, my choice, right? So I'm not going to obviously buy this story, but it says here, at the moment, she shattered expectations. Abigail's nonchalant statement wasn't defiance or rebellion, it was certainty. My niece has always been the type to speak her mind. She never tiptoes around a difficult conversation.
[11:17] The tension in the room was palpable, right? So again, she's chosen to break the covenant. It's a huge criticism of her parents to say she doesn't want children, because she's saying.
[11:32] Life without children is pleasurable and therefore I perceive that I was a burden to you. It is, absolutely. A huge criticism of her parents. It is a conversation that should be had around emotional issues and criticisms of parenting and unhappiness in childhood. But, you know, see, if Abigail, this woman, if she likes her life, then she should pay that gift forward, right? Her parents sacrificed a lot to have her and to raise her. And if she enjoys her life, then she should pay it forward. Otherwise, it's like inheriting a...
[12:09] Uh it's inheriting a fortune that has been kept for a hundred generations and blowing it all on yourself rather than preserving it and increasing it for the next generation well that's just ridiculously selfish selfish so if um abigail is happy then she's enjoys her life is happy to be alive is glad to be alive and is selfishly hoarding all of that life for herself and not paying it forward uh that's gross and if abigail is miserable and unhappy i can understand why she wouldn't want to have kids. But if she's miserable and unhappy at that young an age, it probably has to do with how she was raised. And therefore, she should deal with that with her parents rather than deny life to those who can come after her. So it is just monstrous and horrible. But you can see she's rejecting expectations to pursue a life of her own design. Well, I mean, that's just vanity, right and it is wanting to consume the fruits of human society without contributing any new members.
[13:09] That's just take take take the people without kids are the people who come to a potluck without any food and just eat what everyone else has made and again i can completely understand, that there are some women not cut out for motherhood it's not their thing and and that's totally fine. I mean, of course, right? I can understand that. I'm not saying that everyone who doesn't want kids is selfish and semi-parasitical. I think that's the vast majority, but it's not everyone, right? But that's fine. But when is this, is this same, what's that, Victoria Carindi, is she going to write an article saying that.
[13:53] Uh, my, my brother-in-law says that taxes should be cut 99%. And I'm incredibly proud that he wants to reject expectations to pursue a life of his own design because it's his money, his body, his choice, his earnings, his wealth, his choice. No, she would call that person incredibly selfish, unfeeling, uncaring, and not part of the social covenant, right? So that is just the hypocrisy of all of this that a woman can say, well, I reject having children because my body, my choice. And if a man says, I reject or I don't want the current tax burden because my body, my choice, you just know it's going to be completely different. So it's nothing to do with principles. It's all to do with enabling the selfishness. And then of course, you know, I understand that if people fall for this nonsense, if women fall for this nonsense, and maybe men too, But if women fall for this nonsense, then is it a huge loss if people are easily programmed and easily swayed into rank selfishness and are willing to use force to extract resources from others when they get old? Okay, is it a huge loss that they don't become mothers?
[15:12] Probably not. If you can talk people out of having kids based on shallow propaganda, is it really such a loss if it ends with them? Probably not. freedomain.com slash donate. Thanks a million for your support. Lots of love from up here. I'll talk to you soon.
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