The FIRST livestream call in format in FOREVER!
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"I have the opportunity to hold my abusive mother accountable for years of her bad behavior toward me and her children by repossessing her only vehicle. She is almost completely alone in life. No money. She got the car from my brother before he went to the Military. She proceeded to crash it, run tolls and almost get my brother's license suspended. Its the right thing to do - to repossess it, but I still feel kinda bad. Not sure what the right thing to do is…"
0:00 - Getting Started
1:48 - Tech Issues and Encouragement
6:49 - Dealing with Frustration and Encouragement
12:31 - Setting Boundaries vs. Issuing Ultimatums
26:21 - Importance of Truth in Relationships
28:13 - Strategies for Relationship Communication
31:33 - Setting Boundaries vs. Preferences
33:37 - Resolving Conflicts Effectively
34:48 - Establishing Relationship Ground Rules
36:38 - Boundaries as Covenant Reminders
38:25 - Relationships, Boundaries, and Gratification
1:07:43 - The Evolution of Bullying
1:13:32 - Unveiling the Fear of Misunderstanding
1:19:43 - Unraveling the Secrets of Silence
1:27:29 - Challenging the Definitions of Abuse
1:30:27 - Defining Yourself Beyond Survival
1:34:41 - Audience Preference: Caller vs. Monologue
1:37:21 - Helping People Through Authenticity
1:39:10 - Flourishing Beyond Childhood Trauma
1:42:00 - Trust and Heroism
1:44:29 - The Safest People
1:54:00 - Midnight Operation
2:01:09 - Sympathy for Evildoers
2:06:10 - Punishment for Child Abusers
In this discussion, I delve into the intricacies of setting boundaries in relationships, emphasizing the importance of clear communication and honesty. I share anecdotes and tips on assertively conveying preferences and addressing conflicts effectively. The significance of establishing ground rules early on in relationships is highlighted to avoid misunderstandings and conflicts down the line. I stress the value of sticking to promises and maintaining integrity within relationships, underlining the impact of adverse childhood experiences on adult relationships.
I engage with a caller who reveals a challenging childhood marked by violence and neglect, leading to struggles in forming healthy relationships. We explore the caller's past as a bully and the profound effects of childhood trauma on their behavior and self-perception. The conversation delves into seeking adoption, artistic pursuits, and the difficulties of forming connections due to past trauma and isolation. We reflect on the fear of rejection and the struggle to reveal one's true self to others, acknowledging the complexities of personal histories on present relationships.
A deep and vulnerable conversation ensues with another caller, shedding light on the impact of maternal abuse and manipulative behavior on their upbringing. We discuss the caller's fear of being misunderstood and challenge beliefs shaped by past trauma. Through introspection and analysis, we unravel the importance of defining oneself beyond past narratives and embracing self-care as a vital component of healing and self-acceptance. The caller's courage in sharing their story evokes emotional reactions from viewers, highlighting the transformative power of vulnerability and self-reflection in personal growth.
Furthermore, we address the caller's dilemma of reclaiming their abusive mother's car without her knowledge, exploring the ethical and practical implications of such actions. I advocate for setting boundaries and prioritizing self-protection while holding abusers accountable, stressing the importance of maintaining moral absolutes and not excusing harmful behavior. The conversation delves into the complexities of familial dynamics and making choices that foster emotional well-being and personal development. Emphasizing self-empowerment and emotional intelligence, we underscore the significance of establishing healthy boundaries in relationships to support mental and emotional well-being, aligning choices with personal values and growth.
[0:00] Good evening, everybody. It is Stefan Molyneux from Free Domain, and let's get ourselves set up here. Nice and tasty-toasty, sorry for the late start. I thought that Windows was not, in fact, reading my microphone, but what it was, was I had, I guess, more than four microphones attached, or more than four recording audio devices, and in the interface there was no scroll bar but if I hovered my mouse over and hit the mouse wheel I could scroll down so it was just a bad interface design but we are live and going well yeah it's normally it's fine it's normally fine now tonight we're gonna we're gonna throw the um, tonight we're going to throw into.
[0:53] The chat window here a, it's going to be a lovely, tasty, gorgeous, and beautiful way that you can, in fact, you can, in fact, call in. So we are looking at that, and that's going to be kind of cool. We're going to try a call-in, and we're going to have a look and see what kind of juicy stuff we can do with the call-ins. We're just trying it. I know everyone's probably a little startled. We certainly don't have to do it. But I'm kind of curious to see if there are these things. Are there these things? Let us see. All right, media.
[1:41] Audience submissions, okay. So James is going to throw into the chat.
[1:49] If you can, Stef needs to hire a producer. You know, that's kind of a jerky thing to say, if you don't mind. So I think when you look at the amount of tech that I'm running, it actually goes normally pretty well. This was an interface thing. And, you know, here's the thing, right? This is just something in your life that you might want to think about when it comes to being around people, right? So I did start late. I had to reboot twice. I tried all these various things, and it's a little frustrating, right?
[2:26] It was a little frustrating. So when someone has wrestled through some frustration and has to come in to do a show, which I'm happy to do, and I'm pleased to be doing it, you need to hire a producer is kind of bitchy. Honestly, I mean, it's not the way that you get people to do good shows, to be encouraged. You just might want to look at that in your life and say, is that really how I want to be in the universe? Is that really how you want to be in the universe? When someone has struggled through and is embarked on a show through no fault of their own and by the way i might say that 95 to 97 percent of the shows go off relatively well but you know i've had some internet troubles this was an interface issue and um i guess somehow i installed a new recording driver and then um uh it just didn't show the microphone right so you know a producer may have have seen that may not have seen that i actually do test everything ahead of time but something changed right so you know when someone has struggled through and you know is doing the show maybe a little bit more encouragement and let's have a great show just it might be potentially conceivably theoretically it might be the way that you want to go rather than well you need to hire a producer.
[3:49] Just a thought. It's just a little thought. All right. So here is the link for the call in. Here is the link for the call in. Tech issues always seem to happen. See, now that's also a little bit annoying, to be honest. So that's just a little bit annoying. So no, I would would say actually tech issues don't seem to happen very much so let me just tell you my day right just so you know what's going on behind the hoods right so this morning I recorded a fantastic show about how to love women it went off without a hitch and then I did a paid call-in show this afternoon, which went off without a hitch. And I also edited a whole bunch of TikToks, which you can get, of course, at tiktok.com forward slash, tiktok.com.
[4:51] Fdrurl.com forward slash TikTok. That's the way to go. And if you want to call in tonight, you can just go to fdrurl.com forward slash live call. That's fdrurl.com forward slash live call. I'm going to put that on the other screen. and that also went off without a hitch.
[5:11] So a lot of stuff has worked technically very well and there's a lot of balls in the air. James does great work. Jared does great work. I do great work. And so when something does go wrong, I mean, it's an interesting question, right? How do you handle it when something goes wrong for someone in your life? And, you know, we're a small enough little group here that we care about each other. We know each other. This isn't some big anonymous live stream. You know, it's a jazz club, right? So what do you do in your life when something goes wrong or when something goes wrong to people around you, right? I mean, I get annoyed. That's natural. That's inevitable. And then what I have to do is I've committed to doing a great show anyway, right? So when people are like, oh, there are always tech issues, you should hire a producer and so on. Where are you in the general human story of progress and achievement? Just out of curiosity, where are you in the general human story of progress and achievement? Are you contributing to the general human story of progress and achievement, or are you sitting on the sidelines complaining when things go wrong for other people? You know? Have you heard of the live demo curse? Maybe it's there. Okay, you know that I worked in software for like a decade, right? No, more than a decade, like 12 years.
[6:33] And I understand that. So, it's just interesting to me, and this is a little opportunity. It's just an opportunity for you to say, well, someone was facing a challenge.
[6:50] Now, this is, of course, it's not a major challenge. It's not like we're trying to enjoy the opening ceremonies of hell slash Paris for the opening ceremonies of the Olympics. Very minor issue. We started a few minutes late. but where are you in the world when things go wrong for other people are you encouraging are you positive like i'm so glad you got it i'm so glad you got it sorted stuff let's have a great show or are you you're the hiring producer and tech issues always happen and there's a curse and it's like no none of that none of that are you helping people who are in trouble or are you making things more annoying and difficult for people who are in trouble this is going to have a big effect on your career. This is a nice little, again, this is not a big issue, this is a nice little microcosm of how you react, right? Do you want, like when you're in a situation where you are wrestling with something and you're frustrated, do you want people to encourage you or do you want people to say negative things?
[7:48] And this is going to have a big effect on your career. If you're a positive person who's enthusiastic and likes to help people and is encouraging, you're just going to go further in life, in love, as a whole, right? So I'm able to sort of overcome the minor frustrations and annoyances of why can't I select this microphone? Oh, it turns out I have to hover my mouse over and hit the scroll wheel to get to the microphone that I want because the other ones are not hooked up. This is of course because I have two microphones here, right? I have two microphones. One is a Yeti Blue and the other one is a nice USB running off an Apollo, which is a very high quality microphone. I broadcast on the Yeti, and then the final production of the show comes off the other one, which is recorded using a hardware Zoom recorder. So I have like 19 different things going on to make sure I get the highest quality show possible. And, you know, occasionally things that are just going to go weird are going to go wrong. But I think just out of curiosity and just out of, I guess, a kind of interest, how do you behave or how are you when things go wrong, right? Because you know what happens in life? You may have heard this. You probably have experienced it once or twice in your life. Do you know what happens in life? Things go wrong, especially these days, right? Especially these days, right? Things just go wrong.
[9:16] And who are you? You know, my daughter, she's just fantastic this way. She's like, you got this, you got this. You know, she's just like very positive, very encouraging. My wife, of course, is the same way. I'm sort of that way as a whole. And it just may be something that you want to look into in terms of what does it cost you to be like, I'm so glad you got this sorted. That must have been annoying. Let's have a great show.
[9:42] Isn't that a little bit more fun for people isn't that are you bringing are you bringing flowers or are you bringing barbed wire are you elevating people or are you kind of an undertow that they have to fight against you know what i mean so i'm not saying this in any big negative critical way i'm just saying that you might want to be doesn't cost you extra to be positive and enthusiastic, it may hurt a little if you've kind of had the black hearted cynical streak going on for a while But it is a beautiful thing in life to be sort of positive and enthusiastic. Now, I think it's probably fair to say that I have had a little bit of a couple of down drafts, a couple of undertoes over the course of my life. Yet here I am, being positive, being enthusiastic, being affectionate, and enjoying my life. So what I'm saying is just try that because everyone can read the negativity and the superiority. See, when someone's floundering, right? When someone is floundering, you are in a position of power, right?
[10:53] When someone is floundering, you know, when someone's floundering or something isn't working, you're in a position of power. How do you handle that power, right? How do you handle that power?
[11:08] You know, when you have kids and your kids want to show you something, and they can't find it or it doesn't work or something like that, then you're in a position of power. And how do you handle it? When other people are making mistakes or things aren't working or they're frustrated, they're in a vulnerable position. And how do you handle that as a whole? How do you handle power over others? Because if people are trying to do new things in their life, and I am trying to do a new thing today, I spent about an hour setting it up so that I could, my recording setup is just for the camera, right? Because it's all just been typing and reading and so on, right? So now, so when I did it where people could put their own submissions in and you can submit audio questions as well, you can submit audio questions as well, But I set it all up so that I could record both what I'm saying and also what the audience is saying if we get any callers tonight.
[12:21] And so that probably had something to do with why I couldn't select the right microphone and so on. So just trying something new, trying something new. Are things going to work? Are they not going to work? Well, we'll find out. We'll see.
[12:31] But when you're trying something new, because here's the thing, right? And this has nothing to do with me. It has nothing to do with the show or this like minor little hiccup we had starting in tonight. But my question is, because when people relate to me in a negative way, when I've been frustrated by something, I'm fine. fine, it's a minor irritant, I move on, I do the show. But my question is, how you relate to my difficulties and my enthusiasms is most likely how you relate to your own, right? This is sort of the big thing in life. So if I'm sort of floundering and struggling and so on, and then people are like, well, tech issues always happen, you need to hire a producer, maybe you ought to do something different or whatever it is, right? Then what I think is not, It doesn't really have anything to do with me. What I think not so much is that what's your relationship to my difficulties or my frustrations? What I think is, gosh, what's it like to be an enthusiastic aspect of your personality?
[13:35] Right? Isn't that the big question? What's it like? So if I'm sort of floundering and, you know, it's just minor little dumps or whatever, like people taking minor little dumps on me. Me what happens when you're floundering within your own heart right what happens then oh that's the big question that's the big question hey and if you want to call in and set me straight about all of this i'm certainly happy to um to hear all of that but that's the big question right.
[14:07] If someone's floundering and they come through it can you be encouraging and positive because how you deal with other people is how you deal with yourself. So if you're encouraging towards other people, you'll be encouraging towards yourself. If you kind of take that little flash of power and take a dig at people when they're floundering, you're going to do that with yourself. It's all about liberation within the self. It really doesn't have anything to do with me as a whole.
[14:43] So that's something to to mull about all right so let's see here, All right, here's lots of people saying that they can't hear, which is fine, and I actually do appreciate that, and sorry for the issues. Where's Mike when you need him? This wouldn't help, right? Do you think Mike lived in the studio? Just out of curiosity. All right. Receipt the USB. Mike, Windows has a tendency to lose track of them after long enough. Appreciate that? Appreciate that. And of course, you know, when something like that happens, there could be six million different causes and problems, right?
[15:36] All right, so let's see here. Let's get to your questions, because I really saw a cool question. Stef what's the difference between setting a boundary and issuing an ultimatum well an ultimatum is how you exit a relationship in which you have not set your boundaries right setting boundaries happens early in a relationship right so setting boundaries happens early in a relationship and it has to do with see See, everybody has their different sensitivities and strengths and weaknesses. And you want to try and find someone in life, friends and husbands and wives, that you kind of fit. Like, you cover the other person's weakness with your strengths, they cover your weaknesses with their strengths, and you end up with, if only they knew what they had to do to mimic a fraction of her power, right? Right. That's what you. So some people will step on your toes inadvertently and you just have to say, I'd really rather you didn't. Right. I'd really rather you didn't. Right.
[16:47] So I had a friend when I was younger who had this oddball way of greeting that he would kind of pretend he was going to hit you, right? And I said, after a while, I just said, you know, I'd really appreciate if you didn't do that. It seems a bit odd. You know, also, I did get hit a lot as a kid, so it's not particularly relaxing for me. So if you could find a way to not, or as my daughter would say, could we not? Could we not? Right? Could you not? Could you not do that? Right? Now, people often get kind of huffy when you ask them to not do something. I don't know if this is common, because I usually have a pretty good way of getting these things across. But people get kind of huffy when you say, you know, could you not, right?
[17:28] And my wife has a habit of mimicking sounds. It's always the same. Every time she hears a sound, she mimics a sound. I find it somewhat endearing for the most part. But so you just learn to live with these things. I have my habits that maybe drive her a little, or that she has a mildly ambivalent relationship with and so on. But if there's something I'm doing that she doesn't like, she'll tell me and I'll stop. All right? I want her to be happy and I want you guys to be happy and all of that. So what happens is people are going to step on your toes. They're going to say things that bother you. They are going to do things like my friend who came out, hey, you know, he's about to hit me. And I'm like, I don't really like that. I just, I don't like that. Can we just give a hug or shake hands or something? Like, we can do the Wiggles dance. I don't care, but let's not do that.
[18:19] Okay, man, fine. You know, like, people get kind of huffy when you say, I don't like that. I don't like that. Like my friend who was making fun of me all the time in public, right? At parties, right? It was just some beta alpha attack. And I said, could you not? Could we not? Can we not do that? Like, it seems a little bit, it's too much, right? Right. OK, if you're so mistress sensitive and it's like, you know, that kind of stuff. Right. So people don't like it sometimes when you set boundaries. Other people do like it. And those are the people you want. Right. So. If I had some bizarre habit of pretending to punch people when I met them and someone said, you know, that's kind of not fun for me. I really don't like that. I'd be like, oh, sorry, man. I was trying to be engaging, trying some rears on. On right and skibbity toilet so um you gotta gotta look up you gotta look up uh brain rot is the gen a slang and uh i've been mewing so you gotta look that stuff up it's very funny uh the lord of the sorry the um there's one for skyrim there's a couple for spider-man and so on if spider-man had brain rot or gen a slang and they're actually quite funny so i like it when people tell me they don't like something, right? Can you imagine in your sex life suffering in bed because your lover did something you didn't like for 50 years? That'd be pretty awful.
[19:44] So, boundaries start pretty early, right? And you say, I like this, I don't like this, I'm willing to work on this. And this is how you negotiate to make sure that you get the best experience in your relationships, right? That's how you make this stuff happen.
[20:01] So, boundaries you set up early. And people always want to avoid boundaries, particularly in the early flush of falling in love. Ah, the honeymoon phase, right? it so when people fall in love they are really pumping out the kind of chemicals that would make an elephant trip balls and so you fall in love and then you getting such a joy you're walking on air you're floating on a cloud and the last thing you want to do is say oh do you mind if we can we not you know that kind of stuff right because then it feels like you're worried that the relationship is not going to handle it that there's going to be this negative stuff they're going to be problems and maybe they'll take their love away and they'll take that dopamine away and they'll take all those endorphins away and those happy joy joy bonding hormones will go bye-bye and then you will be tragically sad and broken right so people avoid setting boundaries and when you avoid setting boundaries you're just lying people say boundaries it's just it's all covered under thou shalt not bear false witness thought i was going to yell didn't you so did i I try not to push it.
[21:11] Thou shalt not bear false witness. If someone is doing something that you don't like, I mean, obviously you can try and just, oh, I'll try and get over it, right? But if you can't get over it or whatever, then if someone's doing something you don't like, how about you don't lie about it? You know, it's just a thought. It's just a little thought from your humble, friendly neighborhood local philosopher. Just a little thought. How about you don't lie to people? Because that's all boundaries are, is not lying. If someone does something that's bothering you.
[21:47] How about you're honest and tell them? No, boundary setting. It's like, no, just still covered under the big general mantle of called don't be a stinky little two-faced ants on fire liar. Don't be a liar. Don't be a liar. If someone whistles incessantly and it's just annoying, can you say to them, can we maybe cut back on the whistling a bit? It's right for me a little batty. Sorry about that. I don't mean to stifle your creativity, man. But, you know, it's just constant. It's like having a bunch of nightingales trapped in my ear by Satan or something like that, right? Someone has a habit, right? And I remember once in an apartment, the guy below knocked on my door and said, you walk kind of heavily, can you get some slippers? And I'm like, hey, sorry, man, we all got to live in this big giant vertical ice cube tray beehive. So I went out and got some slippers and tried to walk a little more delicately because i don't didn't want to be like some doom-laden modern existential horror soundtrack to this guy's life alarming sting.
[22:56] So an ultimatum is the price you pay for lying and the price is usually the relationship.
[23:07] So, eventually it may come to the point where you're just like, I can't stand you doing this. You've got to stop or I'm out of here. Okay, so that's an ultimatum. And you think it's because the other person has done something wrong. And maybe they have. But what you've done wrong is lie about it. What you've done wrong is lie about it. Now, all of us truth tellers share one thing in common. All of us truth-tellers have one thing in common, which is people have lied to us about wanting the truth from us. Hey, remember when society said, we've really got to have an honest conversation about race, and I brought in 17 world experts to talk about the science and biology of race, race because people just wanted an honest conversation about race. I remember those good times. Good times. So how many times have people said, hey, I'm not going to be upset. Just I may be upset, but I'd be more upset if you don't tell me the truth. And then you tell them the truth. My mother said, don't lie to me. But when I stopped lying to her, she got really angry.
[24:34] The teacher says, you need to tell the truth. And then you tell the truth about government schools and they get strangely annoyed at you. Right? So everyone, everyone is like, you know, we really, we just want the truth from you, Billy. We just want you to tell the truth. Jeffrey Epstein didn't kill himself. Not that truth. Let's not do that truth. The Olympics have turned into outright Satanism no, no, no, not that truth some groups have higher crime rates no, no, not that truth, It's mostly white males who are consistent pro-free speech absolutists. No, not that truth.
[25:23] So we're all a little scared and scarred of telling the truth. Lie to me, but please don't leave. So an ultimatum is when you finally stop lying and you blame the other person. Because you're in the relationship because you were dishonest, because you didn't tell the person what bothered you. You covered it up, you buried it, you blamed yourself, you silenced yourself, you censored yourself, you lied to the other person. You lied to the other person. And so things escalated. And then you end up mad at the other person for you lying. So what you want to do is tell the truth as early as you humanly can, within the relationship. Tell the truth as soon as you reasonably can in the relationship, right?
[26:21] That's all. Tell the truth. Thank you, Tony, as always. And thank you, James. I appreciate that very much. Freedomain.com slash donate to help out the show. I really would appreciate that. and you can tip right here. You can tip right here.
[26:45] So, you want to tell the truth as soon as possible so you don't get embedded in someone you feel you have to lie to. You don't get a relationship, a love relationship going with someone you have to lie to.
[27:01] So a boundary is saying, I don't like something. Now, you could say something is wrong, but it's just saying, I don't like something or something is negative for me in the relationship. That's all. It's a boundary. It's just being honest about what you think and feel. You are also setting up some conditions for the relationship. So if you are a woman and you're 30 and you want to get married, then you have two strategies, right? or 35 or whatever, right? You have two strategies. This could be at any age, but it tends to be a bit more focused in the early 30s. So you have two strategies, right?
[27:42] And what you can do is you can throw a lot of sex at the guy and be completely agreeable and tempt back all your crazy and say you're just a cool, chill girl who just wants to hang and then hope that he gets so addicted to you that he'll ask you to marry him. Or, or, what you can do, that's manipulative and dishonest. And what you can do, alternatively, is you can sit down with the guy on the second or third date and say, or even on the first date, and say, I'm actually looking to get married.
[28:14] I'm not saying it has to be us. I'm looking to get married. If that's not what you're looking for, as Kevin Samuels would say, I'll bid you goodnight. I'll bid you goodnight.
[28:34] All right. I appreciate your questions. Remember, you can also go to fdrurl.com slash AMA, and you could submit audio questions if you don't feel like all of that, right? No, I appreciate that. I know that when you said tech issues always happen, And I know you were trying to say, it always happens, don't feel bad. I get that. I appreciate that. And I understand that. I knew it was a 50-50, right? Do you have any advice on being assertive and not letting people talk over you when you're trying to communicate something important? Do you have any advice on being assertive and not letting people talk over you when you're trying to communicate something important? Did you not listen to the show from a week ago Thursday? The one about shyness?
[29:29] You just keep talking.
[29:33] Excuse me, I'm still talking. Excuse me, I'm still talking. Excuse me, I'm still talking. Excuse me, I'm still talking. Excuse me, I'm still talking. It's called the broken record technique. It is actually very helpful. Because normally what people are doing is like, hey, hey, hey, hey, I'm trying to talk, right? They get really, and then they just, nobody wants to listen because they're kind of startled by the intensity. So what you do is, and you can do it in a sort of very positive and friendly way, what you can do is, that's another annoying question. What happened to Mike?
[30:04] We did the last work for the guy five years ago. What happened to Mike? I don't know. Did people think something sinister happened? No, he just wanted to move on and all that. that anyway so you just it's a broken record technique excuse me i'm still talking excuse me i'm still talking excuse me i'm still talking one second please i'm still talking no i'm still talking i'm you just do the broken record right and i i'm willing to do the i've done the broken record for 30 to 60 seconds sometimes with people nope still talking nope still talking still talking nope still talking now if you're doing it live to an audience right then eventually after a minute, you can stop because everyone recognizes that the person is not interested. The other person is not interested in having a conversation, right? They just want to have a monologue. They're not interested in having a conversation. They just want to have a monologue. And then everybody knows and they sympathize with you.
[31:07] Your dialogue is interrupting my monologue, right? Have you been watching the Bitcoin conference, Stef? No. No. No. You know, I've spoken at Bitcoin conferences and so on, and I think they're wonderful, but it is a little bit like preaching to the choir.
[31:33] All right. Somebody says, actually, I just learned this in therapy, and I'm not sure what the actual definition is, but I learned a boundary is an action you do, not a preference you have of someone else. For example, if you yell again, I will leave the house for an hour. An example of not a boundary, please don't yell at me anymore. If you yell again, I will leave the house for an hour. Well, I certainly don't want to say anything negative about your therapist, but from a philosophical standpoint, that's too late. Because now what you're saying is, if you do something that displeases me, if you do something that I don't like, I will remove myself from your presence for a set period of time, I'm going to put you on a timeout in the lonely house, and that's training someone through negative stimuli. I will leave the house for an hour.
[32:29] So a boundary should not be just reactive, right? So if you're interested in someone for dating and you say, how should conflicts be resolved? We're going to have conflicts. How should conflicts be resolved? I'm not a fan of yelling and name-calling because I'm not for, right? So I don't like yelling and name-calling. So how about we don't? How about we don't do that? Like, we're going to have disagreements. We might get frustrated. We can be honest. We don't have to intimidate. We don't have to raise our voices. We don't have to name call, right? So that's one rule. Another rule is, let's not deal at the surface stuff, right? Let's not deal at the surface stuff. Let's deal at the actual stuff, right? So if you're mad at the way I stacked the dishwasher, it's not about the dishwasher. Let's not fight at the surface level, let's get to whatever the root of the issue is. That's another rule.
[33:34] Let's make sure we stay in the present and don't bring up the past.
[33:38] Because the whole purpose of a conflict is you resolve the conflict, which means you're done with it, which means you move on. Now, if you circle back and bring up a conflict from the past, it means that you lied about it being resolved. Are we okay? Are we resolved? Yes. But if the conflict comes up again the next time, then clearly it wasn't resolved. So if you both said that it was resolved whoever brings it up the next time was lying when they said it was resolved right so let's not do that right so there's just some basic ground rules for productive conflicts conflicts can be unbelievably productive they're good training for conflicts in the world they bring you closer because every time you successfully deal with a conflict you get closer and the trust level increases right, Another conflict might be, I don't care how tired we are, let's not go to bed angry, let's try and sort it out if we want. I mean, if we both sort of agree with that as a general principle, you can have exceptions and so on. So yeah, no yelling, no name-calling, let's not deal with the surface issues, let's not go to bed angry, and let's not bring up past conflicts.
[34:48] So, this is what you do at the beginning of relationships, isn't it? I mean, you don't work with someone for a year and then try and wrangle job responsibilities and pay, do you? You define all these things up front!
[35:02] So, in other words, if you say, you yell again, I'll leave the house for an hour, that's the result of dishonesty at the beginning of relationships. So, if you don't like yelling and name-calling, because, as I mentioned before, you're not for, if you don't like yelling and name-calling, you say that at the beginning. I don't like resolving conflicts, because you can't really resolve conflicts with yelling and name-calling. Right? So, that's a boundary, and you set it up ahead of time. So then if the person starts yelling at you, you're like, whoa, whoa, no, no, no, no. As you remember, you're in this relationship because we agreed to not do that. So don't do that, please. As we talked about, just a reminder. I'm not mad. I'm just saying we don't yell and we don't call names. Now, if the person does that, then they've broken the covenant of the relationship. A relationship is a series of promises. It is a series of commitments. It is an integrity to meet the other person's reasonable needs.
[36:09] So if somebody, it's fraud to get into a relationship saying, I'm not going to raise my voice and then raise your voice. And if you do occasionally forget, you raise your voice and they say, whoa, whoa, no, we're not doing that. Oh, I'm so sorry. I forgot. You're right. My apologies. Right? And it happens, right? All right, so the boundary is rational standards of behavior, reasonable standards of behavior that you are willing to have you both accept and encompass.
[36:39] So, there's not please don't yell at me anymore, and an ultimatum is not a threat, it is a reminder of the break in covenant. A relationship is a covenant, it is a solemn promise of expected behaviors. Now, that doesn't mean we all have to be perfect, but you have to be able to be called on it, right? So, if you have a relationship based on don't yell, and you yell, the person has to be able to say, They won't, no, no, no. And you say, oh, I'm so sorry. You're right. My apologies. Because that is the relationship. The relationship is nothing more or less than the vows you make and keep. That's it. That's all it is. A relationship is nothing more or less than the vows you make and keep. If you make the vows and don't keep them, you're a lying fraud who should be dumped.
[37:27] All relationships are nothing more or less than the vows you make and keep that are accepted by the other person. And so many people get into the relationships they don't define, and then after they're pair-bonded, they have no definitions, no rules, no standards, no vows, no integrity, no covenants, no promises, no virtue. They get enmeshed and bubbled and boiled in and blended together and then, and only then, six months in, a year in, two years, five years, then they try to set up some rules. I'm sorry, don't be the laugh, but it's the craziest stuff known to man. Honestly, you can't get crazy. It's the craziest stuff known to man.
[38:26] And this is what happens. Now, either they can successfully implement some rules, in which case they can kind of stagger forward or they can't in which case there's a breakup and a divorce but everyone gets sexually bonded because sex is fun and boundaries are not we want fun no capacity to defer gratification we want the fun the romance the sex the heart the going out for dinner and gazing lovely into each other's eyes wonderful stuff great stuff love it.
[39:01] Without boundaries, romance is an addiction. Without rules, love is a decaying orbit.
[39:16] Imagine just getting in a plane, getting up there, you don't know how much gas you've got, you don't know where you are, and then you're like, hey, where should we go? No planning.
[39:31] Ever had a pen clicker in the office? It used to drive me around the bend. Yes, there are only a few categories of genuine evil in the world. Pen clickers are up there. But the summit of human evil, the kind of human evil that would scatter the people doing the opening ceremonies, in the hellscape known as the Paris Olympics, the true evil in the world, are the inhuman ghouls, who crack their knuckles. Even the sound makes me nauseous. Hey, I know you're trying to concentrate, but what if I pulled my fingers out of their sockets and jammed them back in like I was beheading hamsters with a tiny guillotine? Would that be at all distracting or would that make you want to throw up? Just curious. Maybe later I can take black and deck of drill bits to my nipples and put in hoop earrings the size of boat chains, the knuckle crackers are just about the most hideous human beings known to man.
[40:53] That's all. There's really nothing more to say. I hope you don't find it mildly annoying if I caught arthritis in about nine minutes by trying to disassemble my hands and then reassemble them in squishy, knuckle-popping, viscous real time. Would that be all right? Maybe later I'll drive a nail through my scrotum and call it a piercing. Would that bother you? My gosh.
[41:34] I had somebody ask me to tell the truth. Yeah. What actually happened at the Olympics this year? Just the usual anti-Christian perversity, right? Thank you for the tip, my friend. I appreciate it. Hey, I crack my knuckles. Is it really that annoying to hear? It's not annoying. It's satanic. It's horrendous. I usually just continue talking as though I'm not being interrupted and make eye contact. Well, you can do that. The show I'm talking about where I have to keep talking to the guy who keeps talking is 5574. Sometimes i get the urge to get louder each time i say excuse me i'm talking i wouldn't do that don't let them bait you into losing your cool.
[42:33] I did option two said i wanted to get married and have kids on the first date at 38 amazingly it actually worked and i now have a fabulous husband and two wonderful daughters i feel like you won the lottery you didn't win the lottery my friend you earned the lottery we have a caller Let's just see how this works. See how this is going to work. But congratulations. That's a wonderful thing. I didn't mean to imply anything sinister about Mike. I was just wondering when he left and what he moved on to.
[43:04] Why? Why would you care? Why does it matter? And you know that employers can't talk about contractors in that way. They can't talk about people they've worked with in that way. Maybe you've just never been an employer, but yeah, all right. What's the difference between tone policing and tell somebody you don't appreciate it when they raise their voice?
[43:28] What are you talking about somebody yelling isn't saying to someone don't yell at me it's not the same as saying i don't like your tone i don't even know what to say right i'll get to the caller in a sec matthew thanks for your patience Stef i have a cushy job working with metals and i'm no longer challenged i was offered a job working with composite materials on a seventeen thousand dollar raise i know there will be a learning curve and can learn but for some reason i have anxiety, or even scared for such a position. Any tips to get over such feelings? Well, growth is unpleasant. Growth is scary. So particular kinds of growth can put you in the target hairs. Particular kinds of growth, particular kinds of growth, maybe economic, maybe personal and so on, will cause people to reject you, right? So if you become wealthy, I mean, I've known a few people who've gone through this whole process. If you become wealthy, what are your broke friends to? well they can't really follow you they can't do the fun cool wealthy stuff that you're doing right and so what happens to your friendships right so we're born and into a particular class and breaking out of that class is tough so my guess is that it has to do with the anxiety of what's going to happen to your relationships if you do that what about people who crack their backs, well you don't usually have to hear from them very much because they're christopher reevesing, Loud gum chewers are up there too, I reckon Yeah, nail biters.
[44:58] Bubble poppers? Oh my goodness, the knuckle crackers make me feel sick. At least they can't do it for an hour. I love working from home. Yes, that's right. That's right. Hey, John. Nice to see you back. Welcome, welcome, welcome.
[45:20] Hey, Stef. I know that you have shared that you request a tip of at least 50 cents per show. Joe, what would be a fair tip to send after reading each of your books? I mean, I think 10 bucks is fine. 10 bucks is fine. All right. I don't know how this is going to work. I really genuinely don't have a clue. And I'm going to put these not on my ears. Oh, look at that. I'm Princess Leia. Apple fanboys worse than knucklecrackers. Well, it's just, just say I can't get a girlfriend. So I've become a fanboy. All right. So I'm going to try taking a caller. I do not know how this is going to work I want to make sure maybe it takes it from Windows so I'm just gonna make sure that the right audio is done in Windows, so one sec here I make that speakers I don't know if this is going to work but there's really no way I only crack knuckles about twice a day not a bad Bad habit, thankfully. Now, nail biting is actually a positive habit. Nail biting is a positive habit because it exposes you to more germs, which strengthens your immune system. All right. So I'm going to try this. Take next caller. All right. So, Matthew, I don't know if you could talk or say anything.
[46:45] Hello?
[46:46] Just in case it's too loud, don't put stuff directly on your ears before you find out these things. Oh, oh, well, why don't I have, oh, volume here. Testing one, two, three. Hello.
[47:01] Hello. I can hear you.
[47:03] Hey, how's it going, Matthew?
[47:04] Oh, good, man. Yeah. I just had a curious situation between me and my mom, and I'm not sure. Did you read the question? Do you have the contract?
[47:18] Do you want to read it out? Or it's better in your voice. I can do it, or you can read it out.
[47:21] So uh basically i have um i have an ace score of nine and um a lot of it has to do with my mom and me and my brothers stopped talking to her uh we kind of woke up to her bs, and um she only has her two daughters left so she's kind of she's kind of getting more alone loan over the years she has no money um and the problem is that my brother gave her his car before he went to the military and she was like running tolls and she crashed it and all this dramatic stuff and i almost got his license suspended and so my brother wants me to repossess his car for him but like it seems like the right thing to do because i'm holding her accountable but at the same time i'm like do i involve myself in this crazy woman's life yet again do i just leave it alone you know like i that's that's really the main contention within my mind in this situation.
[48:28] Gosh like first of all brother let me just tell you uh an adverse childhood experience score of nine i just wish i could give you the biggest most honey dripping hug in the known universe i am so sorry for that that is just terrible and and my heart goes out to you that is about as bad as things can get and you really won the lottery from hell but the family you were born into and i just want to first express just massive sorrow and and sympathy and give you a big hug for all of that because that's just awful.
[49:05] Thank you all right.
[49:09] What are some of the highlights of your mother's behavior? Give me the lowlights.
[49:18] Oh, you want the highlights or the lowlights?
[49:21] I guess the highs of the lows, the worst of the worst. I need to make sure I don't have any vestigial sympathy left in my heart when I give you some feedback, so lay it on me. What happened?
[49:34] I would say the worst was kind of like, like, I guess she kind of, it's almost like she would erase her children's identity and implant her own reality into them. And it caused, I think, all of us to have a fragmented identity through life. wife. She isolated us quite a bit because I don't think she had the capacity to maintain friendships of her own. So we were kind of like these slaves, and then we had no identity. And if you ever called her out for anything, she would just kick you out of the house or just ostracize you.
[50:14] Okay, so that is very analytical, and I'm not going to again say that. I'm certainly going to absolutely accept that, but that's all very analytical and it's effects-based. You know, she erased her personalities and all of that. I'm going to take issue with she had no capacity, but that's for later. What actually happened rather than how it affected you?
[50:34] Okay. Um, what actually happened? Um, I'll give you, I'll give you an example. So I remember when I was a kid, she, she thought she, um, I broke my, my front tooth. Um, and, uh, it was kind of a long story, but she accused me of breaking my front tooth, uh, on purpose so I could get out of going to school. And, um, which is an insane thing to, um, to, to propose. And there was, there was really no inquiry what the real truth was on that situation it was just like that is that was her conspiratorial belief and that's what it was so that's that's now the truth so that's kind of what you would do.
[51:18] Okay what else.
[51:23] Um what else did she do it's it's a lot that's a lot of different things I'm a a little bit nervous right now talking to you but no that's fine.
[51:35] And listen don't don't talk about anything you're not comfortable with so if you don't want to talk about it that's totally fine with me i was just curious.
[51:42] Yeah i mean that's kind of like the basic principle of what she would do you know she would just kind of implant her reality into into us and there was yeah like you said this the other day you said there were somebody was judge jury and executioner and And that's absolutely how she operated.
[52:00] Right, okay. Your father?
[52:04] I didn't have a father growing up.
[52:08] Okay. And how many siblings?
[52:11] Five.
[52:13] Five, okay. You said she had no capacity to make friends? Yes.
[52:19] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[52:22] Okay. To what degree do you think her behavior was deterministic? And I don't mean this in a sort of philosophical sense, like determinism is real, we have no free will. But by the time you came along, how old was she when you were a kid? Roughly.
[52:39] Oh, she had me when she was 17, I think.
[52:43] Okay, got it. So by the time, I guess, you were sort of starting to remember stuff, she was in sort of her early 20s and so on. Yeah. Do you think she had any capacity to make better choices? Did she show any signs of conscience? Did she show any signs of wanting to do better? Were there ever any pauses? Was there any vestigial or residual kind of, maybe I shouldn't be doing this from her? Or was it just complete blank place sociopathy or whatever it was every time?
[53:13] It's it's hard to say because i can't remember any moments like that where she was consciously aware that she could uh be doing better than she was she never really admitted to anything um there was never that spark i could see him in her eye but the only thing i can say at and uh regarding what you're you're asking is that she was a very intelligent woman she was very smart but she had very strong convictions in her bad behavior, when she was doing it. It was like she would be possessed when she would lash out.
[53:49] Can you tell me more about what you mean by that?
[53:52] She had a rage. I think that's her big thing. Something would trigger her, I guess, and she would go into a rage, and it was like a different person. She looked like she wanted to kill you or something, you know?
[54:10] Do you know much about her childhood?
[54:12] Yeah. She didn't know her father either. I think that she grew up with a lot of pain with that that she never dealt with. She told me a story before of her fighting with her mother, and her mother threw her through a wall. She saw her grandpa shoot someone in the face, which is shocking to hear.
[54:39] Was her grandfather Dick Cheney? Okay. Yeah.
[54:42] I don't know. He was like a part of the mob or something. I'm not sure. But yeah, she had a pretty rough childhood, a lot of physical violence with her mom, a lot of pain regarding her absent father. That's what I know of.
[54:58] You know, it's always a tough thing, and I don't have any great answers for this. Maybe other people do. do but when you think people are evil and you look at their childhoods it's tough right yeah, it's tough it's tough because you know we we went on the receiving end of violence and manipulation and abuse and so on we're mad right it's like oh this is so terrible this person is so bad and so wrong and then we look at their childhoods and we say it's this great temptation to say, ah, there but for the grace of God go I. She had it really bad. And you hear this all the time at the call-in shows, right? Well, yes, but my mother was da-ba-ba. She had this childhood and so on, right? So in your mind, do you think, or what percentage chance, I know this is a kind of a silly game, but I think it's important to get a sense of how you think about this. Did your mother have a chance to be good?
[56:08] Or what percentage, right? I mean, and sorry, I'm interrupting what I asked. I'll just tell you what. So my mother, once or twice over the course of my life, my mother showed regret, right? I remember one time after she beat me up, she came in and I pretended to be asleep. I pretended that my breath was ragged because I wanted her to think that I was upset even when I'm asleep to sort of show her how unhappy I was. And she like, she held my hand and she pressed it to her forehead. Head and i i could feel this like regret or this like i shouldn't have done that or things are going badly or or that kind of stuff right uh are you still in oh i think we lost him, hopefully that was a tech issue and not something i said but we'll see we'll see if he comes back you're certainly welcome to come back if you're listening to this or we can have other callers come in. So I just give him another second. Maybe he just had a tech hiccup or went through a dead spot or something like that. So I'll continue and we'll sort of see if he comes back in. So I know that my mother had... Oh, is he back? Okay, let's see here. Oh, something happened with my phone. Okay. No, no problem at all. Are we back? Are you back?
[57:29] Yeah, can you hear me?
[57:30] Yeah, yeah, no problem, no problem. You ought to get a producer, man. No, I'm just kidding.
[57:34] Yeah, I'll get Mike. Yeah, great.
[57:36] Yeah, yeah, there you go. So, no, no, there's no barmador, don't worry. So, I was just saying that my mother showed signs of significant regret and sorrow, but very occasionally. I can think of it maybe two or three times over the course of my childhood. And of course i do know though that my mother did behave well in public that i know for sure right so she had the option to not do this because she didn't do it in public was your mother like, doesn't matter if it's a parent-teacher conference doesn't matter if you're at the mall or there's a security guard or a cop there she's just gonna go crazy or did she behave better in public.
[58:16] No and that like it it was so extreme that it would make me want to cry when we were in public and she would talk to strangers like just they she would be so polite and so sweet and like i wanted to cry because like i felt like i had no voice i wanted to scream and say like why don't you talk to us like that you know why as soon as we get in the car it's going to be you know this verbal horrible flogging. And I felt like so powerless. So she absolutely did that. It was, it was scary to watch. It was like multiple personality disorder or something.
[58:56] Right, right. Okay, so she did have, she knew what good behavior looked like, and she was perfectly able to do that. I mean, did you ever have these weird things? It's really creepy for those who haven't experienced it. It's like holy water coming out of the water sprinkler system, because did you ever have where she's kind of just crazy at home, and then there's that ding dong, and she's like, hey, you know, like someone's come over, or there's a, I don't know, someone needs something, or some Jehovah's Witnesses or something like that. Did you ever have that where she flips the switch just because the phone rings or the doorbell goes?
[59:27] Oh, absolutely. Yeah, it would just be, yeah, it was a switch. She could turn it right on and off.
[59:33] Okay. And what decade of her life is she in now?
[59:39] I think she's like 45 or something.
[59:43] Okay, got it. And what has your relationship been? Oh, let me ask you this. Sorry. As a single mom, did she bring guys into the house with the children?
[59:55] Yeah, mostly weak men.
[59:59] Any dangerous men?
[1:00:01] Yes.
[1:00:03] What happened?
[1:00:06] Well, I mean, there was a lot of dangerous men. Um i mean when i was when i was two years old some guy um her husband was like smothering me from which what my mom told me and then my mom attacked her i don't i i'm not sure if he was molesting me or something um i just i i feel like i can still remember it i'm not sure but that was even just at age two and it just goes on it's it's weak men stefan you know what they do they're into drugs they abuse her you know it never stopped it's all we had in our life for men.
[1:00:48] I'm so sorry and and was she fairly promiscuous.
[1:00:53] Um not too much she would she maybe every three years she'd find a new guy or something.
[1:01:00] Okay and how long would the relationships last usually.
[1:01:05] Um she had one that lasted like eight years one lasted like two they usually last like two to three years or something like that wow yeah and.
[1:01:16] Obviously no quality guys is she she doesn't you said she's getting progressively more alone now so she's hit the wall right.
[1:01:25] And was.
[1:01:27] She attractive when she was younger.
[1:01:28] Yeah yeah she kind of looked like gwen stefani.
[1:01:33] Right okay well of course anything with stefan okay never mind.
[1:01:37] So i so.
[1:01:41] She's hit the wall i assume she's aging out of her looks right.
[1:01:43] Yeah it's going downhill right right okay.
[1:01:51] Let me ask you something else. Sorry, I'm circling your question. I haven't forgotten it. And let me know if your time is limited. Are we okay to spend another few minutes on this?
[1:02:00] Oh, no, I'm good on time.
[1:02:02] Okay, good. I just, I don't want to get, I don't want to be too short or too long. So, okay. So, you went to school, I assume you went to public school?
[1:02:14] Yes. Okay.
[1:02:16] Was your mother involved in any other groups, church or charities or communities or anything like that?
[1:02:23] No, she isolated herself.
[1:02:26] Okay. So how did it feel to sail through society? And I'm going to, sorry, let me ask you this before I do that windy monologue. Did anyone at school or in the neighborhood, I assume it doesn't come from extended family because they're all not jobs too. But did anyone in the school or the neighborhood ever say, hey, is it possible you don't have the very best home life?
[1:02:56] There was one occasion I had one of my best friends in school was this one girl, and she noticed how quiet I was all the time, and I looked depressed because I was. So she reported me to the guidance counselor and they were trying to dig it out of me and I was too afraid to tell them what was going on at home because I didn't want my mom to find out that I told on her and then I'd get punished or kicked out of the house so once that I can remember.
[1:03:29] Wow that's interesting and how old were you.
[1:03:33] Maybe 13 right.
[1:03:38] Well and for those of you who haven't grown up in shit storm households pardon my french you start to think pretty early on how can i get out.
[1:03:49] Oh yeah oh yeah i used to ask i mean i'm sorry go ahead i'm sorry i used to ask Ask police if I can put myself up for adoption. Well, I did that multiple times trying to get away.
[1:04:01] Right. Okay. This begs another question or two, if you don't mind.
[1:04:05] It's okay.
[1:04:08] Why were you talking to the police about putting yourself up for adoption? What were the police doing there?
[1:04:12] Because my mom would get beat up or I would get caught.
[1:04:17] No, don't laugh. I know it's tempting. This is how crazy it was. Ha, ha, ha. But this is awful stuff. So your mom would get beat up, the police would be over, and you'd beg them to be adopted, right?
[1:04:29] Yeah.
[1:04:32] You know, much though I respect the police for consistently going after people who post mean things on social media, I don't know, just maybe sometimes it might be nice for the police to actually help children who are being viciously abused. That's all. You know, hey, I'm not a cop. I have some friends. But, you know, just if you're listening to this and you're a cop, I don't know. If there's violence in the household and the kid is begging to be adopted, maybe that's a clue. Maybe that's a hint. Maybe that's something that you might want to look at a little bit more. Because isn't it wild? Isn't it just wild that the cops, like nothing happens, right?
[1:05:13] No.
[1:05:15] Nothing happens. But you got to pay taxes for the rest of your natural life. For the cops who just like, oh, want to be adopted, do you? Ha, ha, ha. Yes, I remember having some trouble with my mother when I was your age. it'll be fine it's just a generation gap thing oh okay off we go yeah, so how did this uh how did your relationship with society as a whole go did you uh did you turn a little feral.
[1:05:46] Yeah, I think you talked about similar experiences with your past as well. But no, I hated the world. It was weird. It was like a duality.
[1:05:59] Well, sorry. Technically, you just hated the world back. That's all.
[1:06:03] Yeah, you're probably right about that. No, I hated the world. I wanted to make people feel as bad as I did. I was a bully in school. I enjoyed beating people up.
[1:06:18] What age did that start?
[1:06:20] What?
[1:06:21] What age did that start, or did you start doing that?
[1:06:24] Maybe at age eight, and it ended at maybe age 15.
[1:06:31] Now, what kind of bully were you? Were you the pick-on-the-pencil-neck-glasses, the Coke bottle glasses book nerds, or did you try to pick on people your own size?
[1:06:42] No, I picked on people my own size, and it was mainly targeted at people with a particular weakness in character that made me sick. Like a lack of integrity or something like that.
[1:06:55] So you were like Batman.
[1:06:58] Yeah, yeah, kind of. There was a reason behind what I was doing.
[1:07:02] Okay. Like a cleansing acid. Okay, so you weren't just finding the weakest, loneliest kids and beating the crap out of them. you were like uh like a moral hammer of thor vengeance against the inconsistent.
[1:07:16] Yeah i mean it was a little bit predacious against people who were weaker but it was like you know i mean i remember seeing some kid who was like a big nerd and i just i just pushed him because i felt like yeah i pushed him he fell on the ground he cut himself all up and i just thought to myself i didn't like him because he was so physically weak and like he can't protect himself and i I wanted it like tough.
[1:07:38] You just told me you didn't go after the weaklings.
[1:07:40] Yeah, but mostly it was what I first told you.
[1:07:43] But there was like two people I can think of that were they made me sick because they were so physically weak.
[1:07:51] Got it. Okay. Okay. Okay. Got it. And why did the, uh, bullying end?
[1:08:00] Um, because I, um, I realized that I was, um, uh, I really, I think it had to do with me realizing I was gay and, uh, trying to accept it and being like, well, I'm weak. And in ways, I guess I perceived it as weakness. And I said, why should I, why should I be predacious on others for being weak when I'm like this too.
[1:08:23] Right, okay. And is that why you were thinking about the molestation when you were young? A potential molestation that you can't quite recall but might have happened?
[1:08:33] Yeah, I wonder why I ended up like this. Maybe it had something to do with that.
[1:08:39] Yeah, I don't know. I mean, it's certainly been a fairly common story with gay people that I've known, gay roommates, and of course I was in theater school and so on, right? So I've heard that. I don't know if it's correlation or causation, But I don't think I've ever met or talked to a gay man about these issues who wasn't molested by a man as a child. Again, correlation, causation, I don't know. But it certainly is a pattern that I've seen. So then how did the rest, you sort of swore off it in your mid-teens. How did the rest of your teen years go?
[1:09:08] I think I just, I realized how much of a problem I was to society. And I started to isolate myself. and i became a painter for a very long time um i did like digital art and illustration work and then um yeah i spent the rest of my teens doing that okay.
[1:09:32] And then in your 20s.
[1:09:34] I became a truck driver Okay.
[1:09:40] And did you ever get into a solid relationship or any kind of pair bonding or anything like that?
[1:09:49] No. No.
[1:09:52] Is that something that you want?
[1:09:55] It's something I want. I don't know if I have the capacity without having to. The way I put it is, I'd have to go on top of a mountain and be a monk for 12 years in order to learn how to have a healthy relationship with somebody. And I don't know if I'm willing to do that.
[1:10:12] Why is that?
[1:10:16] I don't know. It just seems like a lot of work.
[1:10:22] Why do you have to go to a mountain for 12? I know you're kidding, but why do you have to go to a mountain for 12 years to be in a relationship?
[1:10:33] It has to do with being neglected and isolated as a child. I feel more comfort being alone now. So we're dealing with 20 years of not forming any relationship with people and just being isolated. So that's what I'm up against.
[1:10:55] When nobody formed any relationships with you. I mean, you didn't just wake up and say, Hey, I think I'll be lonely guy. It's like nobody formed any relationships with you.
[1:11:09] Yeah. And it, and, and that conditioned me to not want to be, um, and really any relationships with anyone else.
[1:11:18] How do you, how do you find this conversation?
[1:11:23] I think it's nice because we could be helping someone else i.
[1:11:27] Mean you you're fine talking and listening right yeah okay so do you feel are you ready you're not driving are you no i'm fine okay do you feel cursed yes like you've got a black heart and you've got to isolate it from people or it's gonna lash out like some vampiric squid with scimitars at the end of its tentacles and flay people alive i'm cursed yeah.
[1:11:58] I say that about myself actually kind of often.
[1:12:06] What is the curse?
[1:12:12] The curse would be the life that was given to me and the normalization of that life within my own mind. Boy, that's very abstract. It has to do with being comfortable, being isolated and alone.
[1:12:31] If the curse was written down and tattooed on your chest... Give me the one or two sentences of the curse that has been branded into your brain. What is the curse? What is the, what is the, like, imagine some Baba Yaga witch casting some curse. What is the sentences? He is, Matthew is, what is that? What is, what is it?
[1:12:57] The first word that comes to my mind is fleeting.
[1:13:00] Fleeting, okay.
[1:13:01] Like I want to escape or I think things are, something bad's going to happen or something.
[1:13:07] Okay come on give me some creativity yeah.
[1:13:11] I'm an artist right.
[1:13:12] You're a gay artist give me some creativity come on man what's the curse what's the curse what's the language what's branded on your heart that keeps it alone i'm.
[1:13:26] Not sure i'm not sure that's the best thing i can think of fleeting i like to i like to just be away feel.
[1:13:33] Like i'm not okay what happens what happens if you get close what what triggers the curse what happens if you get close um.
[1:13:47] They're they're gonna find out something about me or not accept me or not like me.
[1:13:53] And then?
[1:13:54] Then they'll, oh, and then they'll want to leave me and then tell everyone about how weird I am.
[1:14:04] Ah. So you'll finally talk to the guidance counselor and he'll spread the rumors, he'll spread the facts, he'll spread what you say.
[1:14:15] Right.
[1:14:16] Right. So, I'm going to ask how weird are you, but I don't know that that's inappropriate. What are they going to find out?
[1:14:30] Well, you know, I'm just remembering something before we go into this. I'll talk about that in a sec. But, like, another thing, you said, what is the brand? What is branded on my chest and my soul, really? I would say the fear of being misunderstood. misunderstood so like we brought up the situation with the guidance counselor and um, like if i if i was honest with them the the information may have been relayed to my mother and my mother would have misunderstood me and then um and that's how i feel about other relationships too if people find out how weird i am or what i do then i'm afraid i'm afraid of misunderstanding because closer i get the more you learn about the person that you're with and if they don't if they can't appreciate who you really are once they find out then they will they could misunderstand it and everything's over you know.
[1:15:29] Okay okay okay i got it so your concern that you relay the information when you're 13 to the guidance counselor the The guidance counselor tells your mother, and your mother will misunderstand.
[1:15:42] Yes.
[1:15:43] That is false. Ding, ding, ding. You win the prize of you're wrong. That is not true. I don't know your mother from Adam or Eve or Satan, but that is not the answer, my friend.
[1:15:58] Okay.
[1:15:59] Your mother would not have misunderstood you. Your mother would have perfectly understood you. She wouldn't have punished you because she misunderstood you she would have punished you because you talked.
[1:16:17] Yeah I snitched if.
[1:16:19] You witness a crime in your neighborhood by some organized gang and you tell the cops and then the cops go question the guy the guy doesn't come looking for you because he misunderstood you, he comes looking for you because you're a witness and you talked.
[1:16:38] Yeah.
[1:16:40] Right?
[1:16:41] Yeah, you're right.
[1:16:43] Misunderstanding? Hey, I can understand why you might want to think that when you're a kid, but that's not the case. That's not true. That's not the facts. Your mom didn't have a problem because she misunderstood things. She had a problem because she was evil.
[1:17:00] Yeah.
[1:17:00] And was she sinned against as a child? Yes, she was. And so were you. And so were I. And we're so probably half of the people watching and listening to this now, maybe not the same degree, but sinned against. And what do we do with it? Have you reproduced the abuse?
[1:17:19] Yeah.
[1:17:21] As an adult?
[1:17:23] No, I stopped when I was about 18.
[1:17:26] Right. So you stopped. Now, you have isolated yourself like a tragic virus of history. I get that. And I'm going to chip away at that a tiny little bit. But the misunderstanding, that's, I think, a very incorrect understanding of what was going on with your mom. It wasn't that your mom misunderstood or might misunderstand. She would punish you for talking. Am I wrong?
[1:17:57] Absolutely. I mean, no, you're not absolutely wrong.
[1:18:01] I don't know how to take that. I could be wrong. Absolutely wrong.
[1:18:04] No, she wouldn't have misunderstood.
[1:18:06] Right?
[1:18:07] Yeah, she, yeah, yeah.
[1:18:09] Your mother understood, listen, to, did any of your siblings talk to any authorities?
[1:18:17] Um, not like me. No, I think they were, they complied with my mother's wishes.
[1:18:24] Okay, so do you know how difficult it is To keep five kids from talking about something when they're constantly out in the world and have friends and go to school and maybe do some sports, to keep kids from talking about something that's on their mind constantly is no easy task, right?
[1:18:48] Yeah.
[1:18:52] So your mother knew exactly what she was doing. She managed to navigate for you guys to not snitch, I guess except for now, to not snitch on your mother decade after decade after decade, right?
[1:19:12] Yes.
[1:19:14] So she managed to keep the secret. You know the old thing that two men can't keep a secret if one of them is dead? But she managed to get children, children to keep a secret their whole lives. An ACE, an Adverse Childhood Experience score of nine. Count them, nine.
[1:19:44] So she knew exactly what to do. She knew exactly how to plan this. She knew exactly what threats to make. She knew exactly how to implant it, and that even when somebody was begging you to tell them, you went straight with Omerta, you know, the don't talk code.
[1:20:04] Yes.
[1:20:05] There's no misunderstanding there at all, my friend. No misunderstanding. She knew exactly what to do, and she kept five kids from talking forever and ever. Amen. that's not an accident.
[1:20:27] Yeah that's a good point I think that's correct.
[1:20:30] So the misunderstanding is a red herring and I think you don't get into relationships not because you fear being misunderstood but because you fear, that the fear of being misunderstood is not the answer, And the answer you fear, I think, is that the evil spread to you, and the only thing you can do is because you are sick with immorality, I'm not saying you are, I think this might be the fear, because you fear you are sick with immorality, all you can do is isolate yourself like somebody coughing up blood at a daycare. The curse is I was turned evil, and the only good I can do is not spread it further I will contain this beast and it will die with me.
[1:21:38] Yeah, I did feel like that. Yeah.
[1:21:44] Do you know what my clue was for this? Language is a funny thing, man. Do you know what my clue was for this?
[1:21:49] What?
[1:21:53] The biggest and most repeated word in your submission, repossession. Repossession. Repossessing her only vehicle, right? The right thing to do to repossess it. Repossess, like a demonic possession. Your mother was possessed, you got repossessed. I know this sounds like a bit of a language trick, but there's a reason why you're calling in with this, and I think it's got something to do with the deep church bell toll in the bottom of your soul. Did you make it? Did you make it, or are you infected?
[1:22:43] You survive.
[1:22:44] Sorry, go ahead.
[1:22:45] Did I make it? What do you mean?
[1:22:47] Did you make it? Did you make it out of your childhood with your soul or your virtue, your capacity for goodness or love intact? Or at least available or possible?
[1:22:59] You know it's like um i think i feel like my life is kind of like a video game with stages, and um you know every five years it's like i have to deal with another thing so in some ways i have the capacity to have empathy for others um i could i could be extremely loving you know um and um i'm pretty open i i'm pretty hard worker which i never thought i would be and there's there's these elements that i've conquered but like you know uh you know you're saying this word repossess over and over again and and i still feel that way i i do i do feel like i lost myself and i have to continuously find myself beyond the rubble that i've been buried under by my traumatic experiences. So.
[1:23:52] Were you innocent as a child? I don't mean about the bullying and all of that, because that's something that society should have intervened. You were trying to find, one of the things that bullies are doing is trying to find any fucking virtue in the world at all. That's what bullies are doing in many ways. Is anyone going to stop me? Does anyone care? Is it just my mother or is it everyone and everything? Is my mother just a little bit more extreme? Does society care? Will it protect anyone? Is there any good out in this wasteland at all? So as a child, you didn't choose your family, you didn't choose your mother. You didn't choose any of the guys your mom came home with. You didn't choose the husband of the woman your mom brought home who choked you and maybe molested you as a toddler, as a two-year-old. You didn't choose any of that. In fact, you would have given probably your right arm to get out. Are you innocent as a child?
[1:24:50] Yes.
[1:24:52] Innocent as a child. Have you committed evil acts after the age of 18?
[1:24:58] No.
[1:25:00] So you remain innocent?
[1:25:07] Yeah. Yeah, I would say so.
[1:25:10] Okay. So what's the big secret that people might find? Your innocence?
[1:25:21] Sense um i don't know um i don't know it's it's hard to say this is a really vulnerable conversation for me it's hard to um tap in because you're poking on my soul right now, and like i have that part of my soul covered up you know and you're wanting me to talk about that thing but I almost forgot what it is, you know and so you're basically asking me like or getting to like what's the big deal I'm.
[1:25:53] Trying to get you back from your mother, I'm trying to dislodge not to repossess but to dispossess trying to dislodge the demon of definition because your mother treated you like shit right? And so when your mother treats you like shit what do you feel like?
[1:26:13] Shit.
[1:26:14] Right. Right. Your mother has a view of you that she needs in order to be able to abuse you. And that view of you is your view of the nerd times a million, the weakness. Right. Right. So I'm weak. I'm shit. I'm nothing. I'm insubstantial. I don't exist. I'm, what was the word? Flighty. Right? Yeah. So the real abuse, the real abuse is the definition of who we are. Because that's what lasts, right?
[1:26:55] Mm-hmm.
[1:26:59] You cannot let, Matthew, you cannot let evil people define who you are. I know that it's a survival mechanism when you're young. Yes, yes, I'm so bad. Yes, yes, I'm so terrible. Yes, I didn't listen. Yes, I'm selfish. Yeah, whatever, right? Yes, mom, no, mom, three bags full, mom. I'm so terrible. You're so virtuous. You're so hard done by. Yes, mom, I... Like, we all have to do that nod and bow and scrape before the fucking jailer in the concentration camp, right? Right. Everybody has to do that.
[1:27:30] And I'm glad you did. Otherwise, you probably wouldn't have made it. Right.
[1:27:35] Yeah.
[1:27:39] But you're out now. You've been out for years. So it's time to challenge the definitions. All the shit that you had to mouth in order to survive. You know, if you're stuck in unjustly imprisoned and some asshole God is like, well, if if I don't like you, you're not getting any food. You're like, oh, yes, I guess I was justly imprisoned, and how is the wife, and how are the kids, and have you been working out? You look great, because you want the food. But you don't leave the prison and then later go over to the guard's house and say, yes, have you lost weight? Well, you look great, and you've been working out. You're out. So you don't let the assholes define you when you're out.
[1:28:22] Damn, Stef. That's crazy. I feel like that's actually really true. I feel super vulnerable right now. I think what it is, is, you know, so in terms of like friendships and relationships, I do have, like I said, that word fleeting, you know, I feel like I got to get out. I got to move, you know, eventually get away from this person. And, um, and that's kind of how my relationship with my mother was like, we would clash and then we, and I'd run away from her, you know, or she'd cast me away by, you know, she'd kick me out or tell me to go to my room or something like that, you know? So, I mean, that was, that's, it's a pattern of behavior that started between my relationship with my mother and it continued with my relationships. Like you're saying once i'm free from prison it's still it's still um it's still copying my steps and following me and um but you're right you're right she does want me to do this to myself she wants me she wants me somewhere doing something you know and i'm sure that i'm sure she knows and she probably feels some level of like content knowing that i'm doing it to myself self you know i don't need her arms i don't need her hands around my neck i'll choke myself right.
[1:29:46] Right the demons love to spread through definitions the demons love to spread through definitions and what she has written on the script of you is your shit you're bad you're whatever right.
[1:30:00] And and.
[1:30:01] You had to repeat yes absolutely totally fine i need some food i need some shelter. I'm five. I can't live on the street. So yes, I am a terrible person. Can I get a fucking Pop-Tart? Yeah, I get that. And we all had to do it. That's how you make it.
[1:30:21] Yeah.
[1:30:21] That's how you survive. And then when you get out...
[1:30:28] When you get out, you get the definitions out. It's not enough to leave your mother's house. Your mother's words must leave you. And stop being around you like this fiery moat of ill intent.
[1:30:49] Okay.
[1:30:52] You are more than your mother's language. You are more than the shadow cast by the fiery gaze of your mother. You are more than the emptiness of your mother. You are more than the cruelty and sadism of your mother. With philosophy, you get to define yourself, which means you can no longer be defined by evildoers, which means you are not a plague to be contained, but a virtue to be spread. And if you don't think you have anything to offer the world or the people in it, you're wrong. Look at, I don't know if you can see the chat, but all the people in the chat, are urging you on. They are cheering you on.
[1:31:44] I can't see the chat. Are they happy?
[1:31:50] Well, let me find a couple of comments. Comments.
[1:31:53] I'm afraid to press anything on my phone because I hung up.
[1:31:56] No, no, don't press it. All right. It's okay. That's rough. Very sad. Damn, this is really tough to listen to. Wow. Hats off to the caller for calling in and talking about his life. That's a terrible thing to go through. My sympathies go out to him. Somebody says, police are mandatory reporters. I'm curious how nothing happened given the questions being asked to them. So a woman says, oh, goodness, that's actually awful. Awful. And live locals call in. Great idea. Tipped at free domain. Thank you. Yeah, I love this so much. I love watching Stef do a call-in in real time. I'll be donating tonight. Snitch on the evildoer. Somebody said snitch on the evildoer, which I think is great. Thank you for sharing your story with us, Matthew. This is really helping me too. Anthony says, I appreciate all this conversation. Thank you. Someone says she's convinced him it's his fault. And when we broke through, you see, somebody said, now the joy in his voice. Amazing. Somebody says, kind of feel like we're all in a big living room together. Come on, people. Give Matthew some love here. Somebody says, why is every show so good? How does Stef do it? Well, it's a team. It's a team effort. And somebody says, good job, man. Thank you, Matthew. Very articulate caller. Yeah. Very brave. Thanks, caller. This cannot be easy for you. Somebody says, I can relate so much to this caller. This is also helping me. Thank you. Bro, look how much you've got to offer.
[1:33:23] I'm just really happy that I can help other people. And it is a hard thing to talk about.
[1:33:28] Yes.
[1:33:29] You know, I enjoy forgetting about myself and helping other people. And I'm being a little bit selfish right now.
[1:33:37] Why is that?
[1:33:39] Why are you being selfish? Because I'm trying, I'm, you know, I'm caring about myself enough to talk to you. And you're, you are, you're ripping the crust off of my heart and soul. And that's, you know, I don't, I need that, but I don't necessarily want that because I'm not conditioned for that.
[1:33:57] Matthew, please don't make me nag you about using the word selfish, to be honest. Do you think you're being selfish okay let me ask you this how many people okay let's let's put me in my place matthew are you ready yeah all right let me just give you another couple of comments right brilliant stuff matthew thank you matthew hearing this is helping me so much exactly what i needed to hear i agree matthew is super articulate thank you matthew this was helpful Oh my God.
[1:34:27] I'm going to cry.
[1:34:29] So Matthew, let's put me in my place. Are you ready? Okay. Let me ask the audience here. We've got a lot of people watching, right?
[1:34:42] Let me ask the audience here. I'll go check on Rumble as well. Okay, let me ask the audience here. Do you prefer it when I was doing a monologue, or do you prefer it when I'm talking to Matthew? Come on, let's put me in my place here. I know what people do with the call-in shows. I know how popular they are. So let me ask people as a whole, do you prefer it when Matthew is talking and I'm talking, or do you prefer it when it was just me? Me when somebody says it's funny my mother would abuse me and have tyrants when she would just sorry do anything to and she would just do anything to me but then she would come and apologize before she went to bed and when i got older she stopped apologizing, right so let me just go back here so m for matthew s for Stef.
[1:35:41] Oh this is gonna be funny this is gonna be funny all right let's see here matt matt matt, the name's so nice they typed it thrice matthew talking to matthew, lots of emojis and matt matthew i prefer the conversation matthew matthew definitely preach good word matthew i prefer the monologue but i'm weird matthew you're great though okay so we had at one. We had one person who preferred me talking.
[1:36:13] This is shocking for me. I can't believe this is real.
[1:36:16] There's more. M, M, M, M, Martha and the Muffins. Another S. Hey, I got another one. Matthew is pretty awesome. You're okay too, Stef. So I got thrown a breadcrumb or two. M that wrapped around the screen. M, M, Matthew. So, Matthew, given that people prefer you talking to me talking, I'd like you to explain to me once more exactly how you're being selfish when you're actually providing what is giving people the most value, more value than I was providing alone.
[1:36:51] I don't know. It's just a habit. It's a behavior. I think that when I help other people, I forget about my own pain. That's probably it.
[1:37:03] But you helped people, Matthew, by not forgetting about your own pain. Because when you connected and you got emotional, you felt your pain and you helped people. Helping people is not self-abdication. It's not self-erasure.
[1:37:22] Helping people is when you connect the most with yourself and communicate directly and honestly about what you're experiencing. So you're in a relationship with the audience where the only win-win is you being genuinely and authentically yourself.
[1:37:43] Okay. Yeah, that's a good point.
[1:37:51] We also got a Matthew from Rumble okay but they don't chat much anyway so you think that, you survived by accepting your mother was right but you can only survive as an adult by rejecting every label she ever gave you okay, every label quick question do you think i define myself by what other people say about me absolutely not can you imagine i wouldn't be doing this show right i.
[1:38:33] Could i literally couldn't imagine that.
[1:38:35] Right so i have to have a definition that is objective and empirical, I have to have a definition of myself that is objective and empirical, not what other people say, so I can have free will, integrity, and a personality, so I'm not just dodging these giant fireballs raining down of the sky of verbal abuse from everyone and their dog.
[1:39:00] Right.
[1:39:03] So, you survived one of the worst childhoods I've ever heard about, and I've been doing this for a long time.
[1:39:11] You survived one of the worst childhoods I've heard about, and you have flourished into an articulate, intelligent, sensitive young man who has done no further evil in the world. And the only evil that you're doing is to yourself. The only evil that remains is that which you're doing to yourself. Because now you have stolen yourself from the world, and you are a thief of all the value you can give by being connected, direct, and emotional.
[1:39:46] I just don't want to be hurt. I don't want to be vulnerable, because then that's taking the armor off, and then I can be stabbed by society once again. Right. Right. And I am aware that that is objectively sort of an incorrect way to move through life. I'm aware of that. It's a preference. I choose to be illogical in this regard.
[1:40:16] Well, I didn't say anything about you being illogical. I mean, that's your label. Nobody wants to voluntarily go out and get stabbed, right? I mean, unless you want to give a speech in Australia, I suppose, or something like that, right? But nobody, I mean, it's perfectly rational to not want to go out and get stabbed, right?
[1:40:36] Mm-hmm.
[1:40:39] The question is, can you figure out who has a knife? Because if you can figure out who has a knife, you can figure out who's going to stab you.
[1:40:50] Everyone has a knife in my mind.
[1:40:53] No, no, no. Nice try, Mr. Drama. Don't be gay and overly dramatic. That's just too cliched for words, my friend. No, how do you know, how do I know for simple and obvious empirical fact that you don't believe that everyone has a knife?
[1:41:15] Oh you that just went over my head can you say that like i'm uh like um you know just i don't can you say it simpler yeah.
[1:41:25] It's not it didn't go over your head it just hit your defenses okay how do i know that you don't genuinely believe that everyone has a knife.
[1:41:34] Um because you know I'm smart, but I'm just being dramatic.
[1:41:38] Nope. I know for an absolute fact that you don't think that everyone has a knife.
[1:41:50] I mean, everyone has the opportunity to hurt me.
[1:41:56] Okay, I'm going to have you stop digging. That's all right.
[1:42:00] Okay.
[1:42:00] Okay, the reason that I know for an absolute empirical fact that you don't think everyone has a knife is you've opened yourself up in this conversation with great heroism. You called me in. This conversation probably went a little bit different than what you expected, but but you stayed with it and you trusted me am i wielding a knife.
[1:42:24] Um no but you're like a father that you're to me i you know you're one of the people actually saved me when i was um when i was young you you were like literally my father you were the only thing i had i.
[1:42:40] Appreciate I appreciate that. That's very kind. And I take that very seriously and I thank you for it. So, I didn't have a knife.
[1:42:50] No, I know you don't have one. So, I'll tell you anything.
[1:42:52] I don't have a knife. Are there any knives out? I haven't been skipping over anything mean in the conversation. Are there any knives out in what I've read to you?
[1:43:01] No.
[1:43:02] Right. So, not everyone has a knife. And you knew that, which is why you called.
[1:43:09] Yeah.
[1:43:11] So that's why i mean when i say don't be over dramatic lots of people do have knives don't get me wrong i'm not saying it's a knife-free universe i would never say that in a million years well hopefully in a couple of hundred years we'll be able to say that when peaceful parenting kicks in but not everyone has a knife now if you had a way of knowing who has a knife or not you could have some capacity, to build a bridge over the moat, right? I mean, there's a moat because we don't want to get invaded, but you got to have a bridge because you got to connect with the world to some degree, right?
[1:43:46] Right.
[1:43:47] Okay, so how do we know who's safe or who's not?
[1:43:51] I have no idea.
[1:43:55] But if you did know that, that would be helpful, right?
[1:44:01] Yeah. I would like to know how you identify somebody as a potential threat or not. Right.
[1:44:10] So the way that you do it right now is you just isolate yourself. Everyone's a threat. The moat is there, filled with alligators, boiling oil, whatever. The drawbridge is always up. No one gets in, right?
[1:44:21] Right. Yeah.
[1:44:30] There's no magic formula, but what I have found to be the most helpful thing, is those who've had bad childhoods, and do not morally excuse their abusers tend to be the safest people to be around.
[1:44:59] Because they know there's some really bad shit in society they're not walled off from the suffering in society by the sort of glass biosphere of the suburbs and they don't right so they know the darkness of life and through the progress of the shadow of the valley of death of childhood they have understood the darkness, that the human heart is capable of and through that they have extracted moral absolutes to guide them forward so people who've been abused, and don't excuse, the abuse and don't excuse the abusers tend to be the safest people around now if other people have other things that they want to kick in of course I'm Happy to hear. But in my experience, people who've been abused and do not morally excuse their abusers, do not dodge, do not, well, but this, that, and the other, but have that absolute clear, I was wronged, it was evil. That is the defense system against corruption. That is absolutely priming your immune system to defend against corruption.
[1:46:10] Okay.
[1:46:12] So people, I mean, listen, there can be people who've gone through great childhoods and so on, And that's great. Obviously, we aim for that for our kids and all of that. So people who've gone through great childhoods, they get the moral absolutes from their great childhoods, but people who've gone through great childhoods may not have quite as much in common with the people, who've gone through bad childhoods and have learned the moral absolutes from them. In the same way that if you come from dirt poverty and you make your own money, that's a little different from people who've inherited money. There's nothing wrong with inheriting money. That's totally fine, but it's just a different journey. Did you see what I mean?
[1:46:50] Yes, I saw. Yeah, no, I agree. Yeah.
[1:46:53] I'm sorry. Were you going to say something else?
[1:46:55] No, no. I was just going to say I agree with what you said. And I believe that.
[1:47:01] So, when I meet people, if people have gone through a bad childhood and have clear moral lines, that is the safest I can be. We have enough, I mean, and I'm not saying that safest anyone can be, I'm talking about myself. I went through a bad childhood, I have clear moral lines. The people I know who went through good childhoods, yeah, they got some clear moral lines, but they don't get it. Morality was instructed and theoretical, not hard won. It's like the difference between getting combat skills in a video game and actually being in combat for 10 years. It's just a different kind of thing, right? So for me, the greatest people to be around are people who had bad childhoods and from those bad childhoods drew absolutely clear moral lines of good and evil, light and dark, right and wrong.
[1:48:00] That's why, that's how I navigate, and it works really well. Now, I'm not saying it's a foolproof, I'm not saying it's everyone, but if you've been tempted into darkness and have resisted it, you just have more in common with other people who've been tempted into darkness and resisted it, and you have even more, Then obviously you have more in common with people who've been tempted to darkness and have succumbed to it like your mother. And you don't have as much in common with people who've never been tempted by darkness because they just haven't had the illuminating battle that we've had.
[1:48:42] Yeah, that's absolutely correct.
[1:48:47] Now, people who've had bad childhoods and make excuses for parents, it's too soupy, man. It's too relativistic. It's too dangerous. There's too much of a crack in the armor. There's too much of a hole in the wall. Everything gets through. Everything gets compromised. It has to be like absolute. salute. Because pity for evil is always used by evil to control you. We can see this, I mean, all over the media, right? So pity for evil is always used by evil to control you. And so this is why I'm very strict. And this is why I was saying sort of earlier when I was talking about your mom's childhood, it's really bad. And she was abused and her grandfather shot a guy in the the face and like there's really terrible stuff and i'm like yeah that's tough man because i have sympathy for that kind of childhood but the moment i have sympathy for evildoers what do evildoers do.
[1:49:51] Um what do they do because you said it's just you have sympathy for evildoers and that means that they have like control over you in some way.
[1:49:59] Yeah that exploited okay that exploited oh Oh, you feel sympathy for me, says the evildoer? Fantastic. I can now jerk you around and steal your shit.
[1:50:11] Yeah, another vampire thrall. Yeah, let me suck your blood. Yeah, yeah.
[1:50:15] Absolutely. Absolutely. You cannot show weakness to evildoers. They'll use it to control you, and they're way better at controlling you than you are at resisting them. Because their whole life is committed to that. It's like the people who are dependent on the welfare state or the warfare state are way better at manipulating people into supporting those things than you'll ever be at resisting them, because it's just a massive disparity of incentives. Evil people will always out-manipulate decent people, because they're single-minded and we have the complexity of empathy.
[1:51:03] Yeah, we're actually trying to do important things in life, and all they can focus on is, all they can see is there's a little gliss into the side of our neck. They want to suck our blood, you know?
[1:51:15] Yeah. Trust in me, just in me. Yeah. So I, at some abstract level, I have sympathy, let's say. So I have sympathy for my mother at some abstract level. I really do. But the problem is I can't engage with my mother with sympathy because she'll just pillage me.
[1:51:33] Okay.
[1:51:35] Right? So, let's get to your mother. We had a long journey. We are now back to your question. Does it make sense?
[1:51:47] Yes, and I appreciate it.
[1:51:50] I'm 30 male. I have the opportunity to hold my abusive mother accountable for years of her bad behavior towards me and her children by repossessing her only vehicle. She's almost completely alone in life. No money. She got the car from my brother before he went into the military. She proceeded to crash it, run tolls, and almost get my brother's license suspended. It's the right thing to do, to repossess it, but I still feel kind of bad. Not sure what the right thing to do is. All right. So you are asking what the right thing to do is in this situation. That's not a philosophical question. The philosophical question is, is it right to even be in this situation?
[1:52:36] No.
[1:52:40] What are you doing with these people at all?
[1:52:45] Um, so my, I, here's the thing. There's nuance. I guess maybe you'll appreciate this or not. Probably not. But, um, so my, I thought my brother was doomed. He was under my mom's spell. He, um, he tried to commit suicide in a real way. And when he got back home from the hospital my mom was yelling at him and I told my mom to stop and he needs love right now so after that moment he started to open his eyes to my perspective a little bit which I was a watcher of you back then and I gave him love and empathy and all these things that he needed you know and he started to save his own life um and I was sort of a road for him to do that you know and um so he made a choice to better his life and he's he's gone he's in the military stefan and um you know he he he doesn't want to be in this situation he doesn't want to be connected with my mom anymore and i have the chance to make this situation better, um to to take risk away from him i guess and to hold my mother accountable so it just seems worth it to me with that context so what do you think about that okay.
[1:54:00] So let's always talk about the blowback what is your mother going to do if you take her car.
[1:54:05] Oh i don't know uh she might uh yes you do.
[1:54:11] Yes you do what is your mother going to do if you take her only vehicle.
[1:54:21] I don't know. She's not very resourceful, so she wouldn't go after me legally. She might hit me or something like that.
[1:54:26] She wouldn't go after you legally? Isn't she going to call the car? I mean, is she going to see you taking it?
[1:54:30] No, I was going to go at like midnight.
[1:54:33] Sorry, so you're going to go and just take the car, right?
[1:54:36] Yeah.
[1:54:36] In the middle of the night?
[1:54:38] Mm-hmm.
[1:54:39] So what's your mother going to do?
[1:54:44] I don't know. Probably try to call me, but she's been blocked for like five years, so she can't.
[1:54:49] Okay isn't your mother gonna call the cops and report report the car stolen doesn't.
[1:54:55] Matter she's she i already called the police and asked them they said i'm allowed to do it so she.
[1:55:01] Can't do just wanted to double check on that okay yeah so you take the car from your mother in the middle of the night right yeah but you can't take the keys from your mother right no okay so where are you going to put the car so she can't find it sorry to be so technical and practical i just I just want to make sure I understand the operation here.
[1:55:19] I have places. I don't need a key. I'm pretty good with cars, so I can figure it out.
[1:55:23] Okay. But she could still go and get the car if she knows where it is because she's got a key, right?
[1:55:28] Yeah, but she won't.
[1:55:32] Okay. So she is going to lose her shit, right? And she's going to escalate in some manner, right? I don't know what it is, but she's going to escalate, right? Because her will is being thwarted, and people like this do not like their wills being thwarted, right?
[1:55:48] Yeah.
[1:55:48] Okay. So you take the car to a safe place, right?
[1:55:54] Mm-hmm.
[1:55:56] And it stays there until your brother gets back, right?
[1:56:01] Yeah, something like that, yeah.
[1:56:04] Okay. And how long until your brother gets back? Don't have to give me years, months?
[1:56:11] It's going to be years.
[1:56:13] Years. Okay. So if your brother wants his car back and your mother is damaging it and running tolls and endangering his, well, I mean, legally, right?
[1:56:34] Yeah.
[1:56:34] I mean, if she crashes into someone, he could get in some legal trouble, right?
[1:56:39] Yeah, he said he was going to get his license suspended and that was going to screw things up for him.
[1:56:43] Right, okay. Okay. So, morally, you are entitled, since your brother is the owner and he's given permission for you to get the car back, I assume that he's asked your mother to give the car back, right? Or to surrender the keys?
[1:56:59] No, he knows she's not going to give it up. And I know that too.
[1:57:03] All right. So if the cops say it's fine, obviously there's no legal issue. Morally, your brother owns the car. And if he asks you to get it back from a person who's damaging it and running up tolls and almost getting his license suspended, morally, I have no problem with it. So you feel bad because your mother is going to suffer.
[1:57:26] Her yeah it sort of feels like she's like hanging off the edge of a cliff and i could see her little um you know her hand with her acrylic nails and everything and you know i have the it feels like it feels like i'm like doing something bad but i know it's the right thing to do i she's.
[1:57:42] Hanging on by her fake fingernails.
[1:57:44] It feels so bad i see them in the shape of.
[1:57:48] A lion's claws but all right go on.
[1:57:50] Yeah yeah so it's like three things you know and then the other thing is the third thing would be that, you know, should I even be involved in this? You know, I mean, it feels like the right thing. I'm just very conflicted and stuff.
[1:58:02] No, no, you, so you care about your brother, he's given you permission, so morally you can take it. You're not involved because you got your mother blocked, right?
[1:58:09] Yeah.
[1:58:10] Okay. So if you're going to help your brother in this way, because the only other alternative, of course, can your brother call a repossession company to get the car?
[1:58:26] I don't know. I think, you know...
[1:58:28] Because there are people who do this. The whole movie, Repo Man, right? So there are places that would go and get the car, and I assume that they know all the laws and all of the ins and outs and make sure they're doing it in just the right and proper way, right?
[1:58:43] Yeah.
[1:58:46] Now, I mean, they'll obviously require, I assume, some papers and all of that, but maybe this is a job for the professionals?
[1:58:54] Well, I can do it. I can do it legally and everything like that. And everything's fine, like technically, but like, I don't know. Do you think I should have any sympathy for this woman?
[1:59:08] Do I think that you should have any sympathy for this woman? Did she have any sympathy for you? you no so you know justice is paying what you owe right justice is not weak and justice is not manipulated if your mother had shown you sympathy you would show your mother sympathy because that's just and right and fair if your friend lends you 500 bucks and he needs the money back you give him the 500 bucks back if your mother showed you care and concern and she needs care and concern you pay that back right yeah, I mean, let's say, you know, let's say theoretically there are people out there who write all kinds of lies and shit about me, right?
[2:00:03] Mm-hmm.
[2:00:04] And let's say one of them is dying and needs a kidney and I'm a match. Should I give it to him?
[2:00:11] Oh, my God. That's a really good point.
[2:00:13] No, seriously. Should I? He's sad. He might even die. Oh, so terrible. Oh, Stef, you've got two kidneys. Just give one. He's really sad. Would you say, yes, Stef, you should absolutely give, your kidney to the guy who defamed and lied about you?
[2:00:39] No, and I wouldn't want you to do that either, but it's like, it's like I'm living by different rules in my life.
[2:00:44] Hang on, hang on, hang on. Did your mother do more than write shitty articles about you?
[2:00:52] Yes.
[2:00:52] You have an ACE of nine, my friend.
[2:00:55] Yeah.
[2:00:58] Is that a bit more important than some mean typing on the intranet?
[2:01:02] Yeah.
[2:01:10] What if somebody who, I don't know, wrote terrible, nasty lies about me, what if they're, you know, they just, they can't afford their rent and they might have to go back and live at home, they might be homeless, they, should I have them move in with me? No are you kidding but huh but but but Michael they're sad, Well, maybe don't be an asshole then.
[2:01:46] I just don't understand. Why does she want to destroy herself so bad? I say that, and it's an emotional question I have. I know why. It's because she was taught to destroy herself. That's what she's doing.
[2:02:01] What are you talking about? Oh, my God. What are you talking about? Oh, but she is a tragic heroine who just has been infected with the Thanatos Deshwish. And she just wishes to destroy herself. It's like, what are you talking about? Do you know that almost every asshole parent throughout all of human history got away with exactly this shit and retired in glory and gold and thrones?
[2:02:22] Yeah.
[2:02:23] Because it worked for almost all of human history. Why? I mean, this is what, this works. She doesn't even perceive that she's destroying herself.
[2:02:35] I know.
[2:02:35] Because she's evolved in this way or our human nature has evolved in this way that you get away with it. She doesn't perceive that. You say, oh, but, I mean, bro, you think your mother's destroying yourself? She had men. She had a family. What have you got? You're so concerned with her destroying herself. What have you got? A truck cab and a digital tablet, and solitude i'd worry not so much about what might be happening to your mother but you you're 30 years old you're as isolated as a neutron star, stop having sympathy for her and have care a concern and empathy for yourself okay.
[2:03:34] That makes sense.
[2:03:35] She's had her life she's made her choices she had her kids she had her friends maybe not many she had all that stuff what do you got.
[2:03:44] I feel like i have a lot in my own little way and maybe that's what like i feel like i have 10 times more than she's ever had and you know it's like i'm looking i'm looking down from her from you know this tower it's a tower in my mind of my accomplishments but i look down on her i go So Jesus, like, I, you know, and that's where, that's where the, the sadness comes from. I just, and you explained it and I know, and what you said makes sense, but there's, I just don't, I hate that it has to be this way, you know?
[2:04:19] No, that's sentimental bullshit. Sorry, I gotta be frank with you, brother. You don't hate that it has to be this way. That's growing up without a dad bullshit. Okay, let me ask you this. What's your favorite movie with a villain? A good guy and a bad guy. Do you feel sad when the tower falls down at the end of Lord of the Rings? Oh, but poor Soren, he spent all that time working on those bricks and it's probably got wonderful interior decorating with your mother's nails as the seat of his throne or something. Like, that's so sad. What's your favorite movie with a bad guy, a guy you think is genuinely really bad?
[2:05:02] Um, I don't really watch movies.
[2:05:05] Okay, do you ever read books? Or there's got to be someone in your life that you've read or a book or someone that you're just like, that's a bad guy, right?
[2:05:14] Yeah, I'm sure there's, I can't think of one, but I understand the point you're getting at. No, I would not feel bad for Soren.
[2:05:21] Okay. Yeah. What about the guy who shot at President Trump?
[2:05:28] No.
[2:05:29] You feel bad? He got riddled with bullets, right?
[2:05:32] No.
[2:05:34] Well, did you cry and say, I wish it didn't have to be this way?
[2:05:40] I could feel that way in terms of a situation like that, like why does somebody get to that point where they think that's a proper solution? But ultimately, no, I wouldn't feel bad.
[2:05:53] Okay. Somebody says, I'd watch the Repo Matt video. Just saying. There you go. You can open up your channel as Repo Man.
[2:06:06] Yeah.
[2:06:07] Alright.
[2:06:10] What should happen to child abusers?
[2:06:21] Um... Oh, I don't even want to say like, I just, I just, you know, what should happen to child abusers? There should be accountability.
[2:06:35] Okay. Should someone who beats up a child as an adult, somebody who beats up a child, should that person be punished by society?
[2:06:49] Yes.
[2:06:50] Okay. Should they get a little fine and then be sent back home?
[2:06:56] I mean, that's better than nothing.
[2:06:59] Okay. What should happen? What should happen to people who beat a child half to death?
[2:07:09] You know, reciprocation, ultimately. You know, of equal value.
[2:07:15] Should they go to jail?
[2:07:17] I would say, I mean, me and you both agree on this. I would say yes.
[2:07:22] Okay. Would they be sad to go to jail?
[2:07:26] Yes.
[2:07:28] Should they go to jail anyway?
[2:07:30] Yes, they should.
[2:07:34] When you were a child and your mother was abusing you and creating a toxic, dangerous, half-deadly environment where you had a really good chance of not surviving at all, she produced a child like yourself who's isolated and also a violent bully when he was younger. She produced another child who had credibly tried to kill himself, Your brother, I'm sure we could go through the list of your other siblings and find things equally appalling, right?
[2:07:59] Oh, yeah.
[2:08:01] So she tortured children.
[2:08:05] Oh, my God.
[2:08:06] She tortured children. And drove them half to suicide and entirely to isolation. And gave them massive burdens of trauma to try to overcome as adults. She tortured children, Matthew.
[2:08:33] No, you're right.
[2:08:34] She wants you to feel empathetic, so she doesn't have to face her conscience. She wants you to feel empathetic so she can get free resources from you. She had children in order to exploit them, not to love them, not to care for them, not to raise them, not to nurture them, not to teach them. She had children in order to exploit them, in order to not feel lonely. Stop being exploited. You cannot help your mother. you cannot save your mother. The only person who could potentially save your mother is your mother. You cannot save her. If she has cancer, you can't take the cancer from her. If she got terrible burns on her back, you couldn't get them grafted to you and give her your back. You cannot save people from the evils they've done.
[2:09:23] It's a deluded fantasy. I would even be frank with you, brother. It's a deluded fantasy to think that you can reach into somebody's ears and undo their conscience. She is being punished by the universe. There's nothing you can do. She's being punished by her conscience. There's nothing you can do. If you're religious, fine. She's being punished by God himself. And to stand between God and the object of his just and moral punishment is to say, I know better than God. It's vanity to have sympathy for the corrupt. Because you cannot save them with your sympathy, all you can do is add to their corruption by letting them exploit you. Your sympathy for your mother makes her worse, because she feels she has someone to bail her out. You are preventing her from hitting rock bottom, which is the only chance she has of salvation. You are drugging someone with a toothache so they don't go to the dentist, which could kill them. Whereas you swallow all that bacteria cause your heart to die.
[2:10:32] You stand out of the way of people suffering when they've done evil because it's the only chance they have to turn things around you say well why does it have to be this way well part of the reason it is this way is because of your sympathy, if you keep bailing out the gambling addict what does he do does he stop gambling no No. You keep calling in sick and giving money, calling in sick for the drunk guy and giving him money. Does he stop drinking?
[2:11:00] No.
[2:11:02] The withholding of pathological altruism is the only chance immoral people have to bounce and find virtue.
[2:11:13] Okay. You're right.
[2:11:21] And a good man who comes along who might be interested in your mighty heart, a good man who comes along, Matthew, who might be interested in your mighty heart, will view your sympathy for your mother as what?
[2:11:36] Weakness.
[2:11:38] More than weakness. Grave danger. I regularly lick gangrene. Want a kiss? I have a giant aperture through which evil people can control my life hey, wanna move in together? I've opened up the portal to hell in my heart let's hug, you think other people are dangerous? you gotta be kidding me there's a knife, in your heart held by your mother drop it, you can't undo the evil she's done and she won't take ownership from them so either she lives with them or you try and shred your life trying to take something from someone that you can't which is their bad conscience and you remove from her any last opportunity for salvation, okay i gave my parents the best chance they were ever going to get at salvation, by not excusing anything they did and not giving them sympathy, which they had not earned. In the same way, you do not give money to the gambling addict. It just makes them worse.
[2:13:01] Right. No, you're right. Okay.
[2:13:05] And she will be unhappy when you take her car. And you should care as much about her unhappiness as she cared about yours.
[2:13:17] That's everything, Stefan. I'll remember that. And I have to remember that. It's the right thing to do. And that's the right mindset.
[2:13:27] That will open up your heart to maybe being loved down the road, which I would want for you. You're a great guy.
[2:13:34] Well, thank you. You're an amazing person, too. And you do a lot. And you know how much you do. we don't have to say you know i.
[2:13:42] Appreciate that i appreciate that are we are we done do i've given you some good stuff to cook with yes.
[2:13:48] Absolutely um and i wanted to you know i want to thank you but it's i'm a little stunned right now and i'm just processing what you said to me and.
[2:13:57] Don't worry i listen i hear the gratitude i appreciate the gratitude you don't have to tell me i really really do appreciate it i mean you're gay you can write me a musical i'm kidding i'm Okay.
[2:14:07] Maybe I will.
[2:14:08] All right. Maybe. All right. Well, listen, I appreciate your time tonight. Thank you, everyone, for dropping by. If you find this stuff interesting to do the live call-in shows, we can definitely do that. And freedomain.com slash donate to help out the show. I really would appreciate it. Last chance we have to decide this weekend, fdrurl.com slash meetup, fdrurl.com slash meetup. If you want to join us in Florida, you can do that December 6th, 7th, and 8th of 2024. We're looking at maybe getting together a gathering, but we're going to need to have enough commitment to make it worth our while. So we'll decide that this weekend. And thank everyone for a great conversation tonight. And it's always my honor and a deep privilege to have these conversations with people. It means the world to me, and I think it means the world to the world now and in the future. Lots of love, everyone. Take care. Bye.
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