Male vs Female Power!

[0:00] All right, looks like we're good to go. All right, so I saw a documentary.

Introduction to the documentary and sharing thoughts

[0:06] I can't remember the name. Victim Suspect, something like that.
So I saw a documentary, and it really got my noggin chuggin.
And I wanted to sort of share some thoughts about this.
Some of this might be a little startling. Some of it might be obvious.
Bear with me as I traverse the lands of political incorrectness to try and get to some wisdom as a whole.
So basically, the documentary was about women who claim to have been sexually assaulted, who then get arrested by the police for making false reports.
Courts and i think i think i hope i have come across a mindset difference that can really help men and women reconcile and and also to protect women which of course i care about as a moralist and also as a husband and father to a daughter i care about with great depth and sincerity so So I'll tell you my thoughts, and you can tell me if it's outrageous, outlandish, discombobulating, or hopefully with a smidge or two of value.
So I guess without further ado...

[1:25] Let's get into it. So I think the mindset difference has something to do with this.
And this reminds me of a debate that's up on the server,
It's a premium podcast.
And it was a fairly ferocious debate that I had with a woman about the question of abortion.
And of course, as is almost inevitably the case, when you talk about abortion, you have to deal with the question of rape right because the question of abortion relative to rape is not insignificant and morally quite i mean obviously very important very serious so i had a debate with this and i pointed out that i think the odds the data is something like two-thirds or more of women who were sexually assaulted know the men who assault them and she then immediately said, and I think we've all heard this at one time or another, she immediately pivoted, and it's almost automatic the way that this happens.
She immediately pivoted to, so you're blaming the victim.

[2:36] So you're blaming the victim. And I'm sure we've all heard this kind of thing.
Now, as a man, I find this way of thinking a challenge.
This doesn't mean that that it's right or wrong. It's sort of the beginning of our exploration or our analysis here.
But I do find this way of thinking really, really hard to follow.
Again, it could be my limitation, but I'll sort of explain why.
And I think if you're the man, you can tell me if this makes sense to you or not.

Lessons learned by boys and consequences for unwise decisions

[3:14] One of the things that you learn fairly early on as a man, as a boy, like when you're young, you learn it fairly early on that if you do things that are unwise, you can suffer some very negative consequences.
Now, this could be as silly as, you know, you tried to impress someone by jumping off the swing and you skinned your knee, or, you know, we all go through this thing when we learn how to ride a bike that we end up with the impulse to who ride the bike without touching the handlebars and you show off to yourself or to your friends or, heaven forbid, to a girl, you show off by saying.

[3:57] Riding, without touching. The handlebars, and you know, a lot of times this works out.
Occasionally, it most clearly does not work out, and you fall and suffer some negative, some significant negative consequences.
So, the idea that you can do whatever you want without consequences, or you should not suffer negative consequences for unwise decisions, decisions, is something that I think it's a little bit more male than female.
I think that we go through this whole process.
And because boys roughhouse or boys fight, boys push, sometimes they'll throw punches, there's certainly wrestling involved and all that kind of stuff.
So if, you know, the phrase, I don't know what the phrase is now, when I was a kid, it was like, if you run your your mouth if you go around insulting people then someone is probably going to pop you one or push you over or whatever it is it's not a war of words like with girls a lot of times it's more of a war of words right they go for reputations they go for um social standing they go for relate they try to destroy relationships by spreading rumors and so on but with boys it's you know obviously it's a.

Consequences of Insulting Others: A Childhood Story

[5:20] If you run your mouth, if you insult people, if you do things that are unwise, then you will suffer the consequences.
And those consequences can be violent. I mean, I remember a friend of mine, there was this giant Lebanese kid in my school, and he, I don't know if this is a Lebanese thing or something like that, that, but the boy matured early and big.
I mean, I remember, I think it was in grade seven or grade eight, looking at the back of this, I'll call him Bob, the Bob the Lebanese kid, right?
I remember looking at the back of his hands when I was in grade seven or eight.
The guy had hair all up the back of his hands, even up the back of his fingers.
And he was just huge.
Now, my friend, we call him Dave, my friend Dave ran afoul of Bob job in some manner.
They entered into some kind of conflict. There was some kind of problem.
I don't remember the details. This is a little bit after I was close friends with Dave.
So my friend Dave ran off his mouth, insulted.
Dave certainly had a temper, which is one of the reasons why I was no longer friends with him.
This is the guy who threw his bike at me because I disagreed with him tailgating me on a bike. So.

[6:46] My friend ran afoul of Bob, and there was going to be a fight.
There was going to be a fight after school, and everybody was quite excited.
I was kind of appalled. I didn't go to the fight.
Obviously, it's not something I really wanted to support or get involved in.
But yeah, all the kids went around in a circle, and Dave had to fight Bob, because Dave, I think what had happened was Dave had insulted Bob, or insulted his mother, or something like that.
And, you know, maybe the Lebanese culture is a little bit more sensitive to these kinds of things. But that was the situation.
Dave said something and had to fight.
Now, did he have to fight? No, of course not. But that was kind of the code of the time.
Particularly if you go for somebody's mother, you are in trouble.
Now, the reason I'm telling you all of this is that this is kind of understood.
By boys growing up. You have to watch your mouth. And there are bigger kids around and you don't have freedom to do or say whatever you want to do or say because of the threat of blowback, of pushback.
And if it's not, even if you're the bigger kid, you have to be careful who you push around.

[8:08] Because if you're the bigger kid and you push around a smaller kid and then that smaller kid happens to have a very big brother, then you are then in trouble.
So, and I say violence, this is not like torture, this is not grievous assault, but you're going to get a black eye, you're going to get a busted lip, you're going to get a bloody nose.

[8:33] And that's just the thing, that boys growing up, we understand that unwise actions can have some seriously negative consequences and those seriously negative consequences tend to be pretty immediate and pretty physical.

[8:52] And that's just something that men grow up.
We understand that there's blowback from other men.
Now, this also translates into adulthood.
So if I show up with my friends and I've got a black eye, right?
And then people say, my friends say, what the hell happened to you, right?
And I say, well, what happened was I went to a biker bar and I was playing pool with this big hairy guy named, inevitably named Tiny, and he beat me at pool.
I had a drink or two too many. He beat me at pool.
And so I called him a horrible slur.
You can make up your own maximum slur situation as you see fit.
But I was at a biker bar, it was late at night people were kind of drunk and then I ended up calling Tiny a vile slur and then Tiny hit me, in the face.

[10:09] And I think everybody knows everybody knows what my friends would say what would my friends say well that was stupid Well, that was stupid.
Now, I was sort of trying to think of an analogy. I can't imagine, and maybe this is just my friends. I think this is more universal.
But I can't imagine my friends would say, that's outrageous.
You have the free speech right to say anything you want.

[10:44] And Tiny should go to jail.
I mean, if you're in the States or whatever, your First Amendment, you have the free speech right.
It's not illegal to call Tiny a name.
And the fact that Tiny blew up and hit you is totally wrong, and he should go to jail, and you're an absolute victim, and you did nothing wrong, right?
So this is the blame the victim thing. I think from a male perspective is just totally different from what it is from a female perspective.
So if I get a black eye because Tiny punched me because I called him a slur after losing a pool game.
And my friends said, well, that was stupid. and I said, tearfully, you're just blaming the victim.
Again, you can tell me the text if this is like way off base, but it would be kind of incomprehensible for me to tell this story to my friends.
My friends would just say, well, that was stupid, and then I would tearfully cry out that you're blaming the victim.

The Complexity of Responsibility and Wrongdoing

[12:07] And, of course, if press, right, right? Who's in the wrong? Well, they'd say, well, yeah, the guy who hit you shouldn't have hit you.
But you shouldn't have said what you said. And this is, it's really complicated for me.
And maybe there's a way to unravel it that I'm not aware of yet.
It's kind of why I wanted to have this conversation.
So of course, the person, like the guy tiny who hit me in the face, he initiated the use of force there's no question and he's wrong and immoral and and so on he assaulted me when i only said something but nonetheless if pressed my friends would say yes he did the wrong thing tiny shouldn't have hit you yeah that's true.

Lack of Sympathy for a Stupid Decision

[13:00] Still, I wouldn't receive much sympathy.
I wouldn't receive much sympathy. It would be, well, that was stupid.
Now, if we take, I would give you one more context and see if this makes sense.
And I say this not with any negative thoughts towards gay culture or anything like that, but just because it's somewhat analogous, right? So let's say that I go to a gay bar.
Like I'm a straight guy. It's just me, right? I go to a gay bar.
I don't know, maybe my friend is performing or maybe my friend is, whatever, opened the gay bar or something like that. I go to a gay bar.
Now, if I go to a gay bar, and let's say I'm wearing super tight clothing or something like that, right?
I go to the gay bar and then at the gay bar I go to the washroom, and somebody grabs my ass.
And then the next day I'm telling my friends. I say, you know, I was at the gay bar, I was wearing really tight clothing, I went to the bathroom and somebody grabbed my ass while I was standing in front of the urinal.

[14:24] Now that without a doubt that's an invasion of personal space it's wrong it's the touching of, an erogenous zone and it's it was not willed and so on right and obviously this is not I'm not I'm not making this analogous to rape or anything like that but let's say that the guy, grabbed my ass or let's say when I turned around he in passing he grabbed my genitals, like through my like not through my through my Freddie Mercury type pants or something like that I grabbed my genitals.

Lack of Sympathy for Harassment Incident at Gay Bar

[15:03] When I told this story let's say I did tell this story to my friends again maybe I just didn't have the right friends or something like that but I genuinely can't really imagine getting a lot of sympathy for this, you know like it was one o'clock in the morning you were at a gay bar it's kind of a raunchy place a lot of times you wore tight clothing you'd you'd been drinking uh so the guy grabbed your your ass or your balls or something right and and my friends would be well you know and and i again if pressed like tiny hitting me if pressed they would say yeah the guy who hit you was technically like he was in the wrong legally he was in the wrong morally he was in the wrong but you were done to do to do call a slur to to to call a big biker guy a slur.

The consequences of using racial slurs and initiating violence

[15:57] Or if you called the person of another race a racial slur and violence resulted, right, there would be a certain amount of, well, yeah, the person who initiated force, free speech, blah, blah, blah.
But that was still really, really stupid and wrong to do.
So same thing with the gay bar. Some guy grabs my ass or grabs my genitals, just in passing or whatever.
Say, well, it was one o'clock in the morning. Gay bars can be kind of raunchy and, you know, it shouldn't be overly shocking.
They're out. I'm happy to hear arguments to the contrary, but in these couple of examples that I've pointed out, right?
My friend ending up in a circle fight with the Lebanese fellow and me calling Tiny some slur, Tiny hitting me in the face, giving me a black eye, and getting my arse or genitals grabbed at a gay bar in the middle of the night.
Or even if I'm just out on the dance floor and some guy grabs my ass or whatever, right?
I'm happy to hear from people. You can type your responses if you like.
But I can't, in my wildest dreams.

[17:14] Imagine if I told this story to my friends that they would have massive amounts of sympathy, be horrified at what happened, and they would say that I was purely the victim.
Even though in the law, in the law, I would be the victim.
And in morality, I would be the victim.
And so, as men, we learn to circumscribe or restrain our behavior because of negative, violent consequences.
And I can't imagine again I'm really aware of all the caveats in their own universe I'm fully aware that I could be alone in this I could be wrong in this but I was really trying to imagine I couldn't imagine, getting much sympathy from my friends.

[18:17] It would be the equivalent maybe to some degree except that there's sort of volition involved like if If I ride my motorcycle and it's icy out and I crash, how much sympathy would I get?

[18:35] Whereas, of course, if I'm riding my motorcycle, it's a pleasant day out, and somebody pushes me off my motorcycle, then I would get massive amounts of sympathy.
But if I choose to do things that are risky, am I a victim?
Or am I just a victim? If I choose to call tiny some epithet, some horrible word, am I just a victim?
Or was I unwise? Am I just a victim, or was I unwise?
How much sympathy would I get from these situations?

Men learning to restrain behavior due to potential consequences

[19:17] And honestly, I can't imagine really getting sympathy from these situations.
I can imagine giving some sympathy, but with the caveat that that was dumb, that was unwise.
So whatever you want to call it that was that was a bad decision so as a male learning how to circumscribe and restrain your own behavior for fear of criminal or violent or abusive consequences, i mean i remember being i was a big one for diving right i was basically half a fish when i was a kid i loved to swim so much i still do love to swim.

[20:02] And i remember trading insults with a friend of mine and the challenge was to finish like to to to die if i had to have a springy diving board the kind that seemed to be non-existent now because women are scared but i remember the challenge was we would do as high a dive as humanly possible, but you had to finish your insult to the other person before you hit the water, So it was a challenge of how to be concise, which I guess I passed once in my life when I was 12.

[20:37] And so we were trading insults, but it was good-natured, right?
And I don't know if you've ever played with a kid who suddenly turns disastrously serious on you.
Like, I don't want to play this anymore. I'm enjoying this. And like, you're supposed to be having fun.
And then suddenly they just scream that they're not having fun anymore when you go from joking to serious.
So, of course, I couldn't imagine when I was playing this silly insult game on the diving board with my friend that I would surface if he said something mean about me or something insulting to me, that I would surface and punch him in the face.
That just wouldn't make any sense because it was in that vein.
So I'm happy to sort of pause here and sort of hear what you guys think.
But have you ever been in that situation where you have just been, not laughed at exactly, but kind of people roll their eyes and they say, well, that was kind of dumb if you end up in some, some situation like I mean if you go to some party in a really trashy neighborhood and you get drunk and you start making out with random women and it turns out one of those random women has a boyfriend and the boyfriend gets mad at you and throws you out of the house and right for men a lot of times this is a funny story.

[22:03] They view these kinds of situations as a funny story and the sort of funny drunken stories where disaster ensues it's considered more comedy and it's not quite a badge of honor although that kind of edgelord living can be considered a badge of honor but i think for men if you insult tiny and tiny hits you in the face Peace.
It becomes a, quote, wild man story, like hangover movie style story.
It becomes a wild man story later and almost becomes like a badge of honor.
Like, hey, remember that time when you called that giant biker guy a name and then he started hitting and we had to run and get out and scramble and, you know, throw beer bottles over our shoulders as we were leaving?
That would be sort of like a story later that would be almost like a badge of honor kind of thing. But yeah, I'll just pause here for a second if you guys have anything that you wanted to sort of think or add with regards to this.

[23:06] I'll just answer your last question.
Usually to avoid situations where I could get attacked or something for women.
Women, I mean, I don't approach a woman that I've not confirmed to be single.
If I'm not sure she's single, I wouldn't advance further.
I don't know. I'm personally that kind of a guy.

[23:38] Right. And that makes sense because you don't want to hit on some girl who's got some psycho boyfriend.

[23:45] Yeah, yeah. I mean, I wouldn't want someone else to do it to me, so I don't do it to someone else.
If I had a girlfriend, I wouldn't really like it if someone doesn't care if she's single or not.
It would be nice to first approach people in stages.
But in today's fast-paced society, I'm not sure if that happens frequently.

[24:15] No, and you raise a very interesting point, which is another one I had completely escaped me, which is because I guess I've been married so long.
But if you end up kissing some girl, and then her boyfriend turns out she has a boyfriend and he gets really mad at you.
Then, again, would that turn into a funny story down the road?
Or let's say some guy then, he pushes you and all of that. So he's initiating force against you.
And for men, it's like, technically, yeah, he's in the wrong.
He should not have initiated force against you.
But you shouldn't be, I assume alcohol would be involved, but you shouldn't be drunk at a bar and kissing random women without any vetting.
Because, I mean, if you're in a situation where alcohol is involved, violence is associated with alcoholism or alcohol use.
It's a disinhibitor, right? So, people's sense of propriety or restraint goes down.
So, do you put yourself in these kinds of situations? Sorry, did you have more that you wanted to add here?

[25:21] No, not really.

[25:23] All right. Does anybody else want to jump in? It's a very, very good point.
Yeah, I appreciate that.
Anybody else want to jump in with any sort of experiences or thoughts with this kind of stuff?

Men's and women's different experiences in risky situations

[25:37] Yeah, I had one thing. I think sort of just reinforcing your point.
I've not been into many of these situations myself, but I could imagine like in the gay bar situation where if you just sort of like got really aggressive with the guy at the end when he grabs you or even if you just like haul off a bunch of them.
I mean, maybe not today, but maybe back in the day, the guy be like, what do you expect?
You look where you are, right? I mean, I could imagine that kind of like like today you might actually get run out of town on a rail if it got lucky. Um, well.

[26:06] And let's say that I'm wearing those assless pants called chaps.

[26:10] Yeah, no.

[26:11] And again, I'm very sensitive to like women have the right to dress as they want. And I'm, I'm fully aware of all of that.
But if I went to a gay bar and it was one o'clock in the morning and I was bumping and grinding and twerking on the dance floor and someone slapped my exposed butt cheeks in my assless chaps, I, as a man, I, uh, you know, there's something that, that I think I think there's this gap or this gulf between men and women and how they experience the world.
And it has something to do with this.
And I'm still sort of circling around the topic. But if there's more that you or others want to add, I'm happy to hear.

[26:47] No, I would say kind of in the same boat, because my reaction to that scenario, as you've described it, is like, what did you expect?
And if it was a woman in the same situation, I don't know if I'd have the same reaction.

[26:58] Action well i don't think we would right because the woman would be very upset and say somebody sexually assaulted me and we put oh my gosh you know and and and and so it's it's a different experience now of course you know women are lusted after more and approached more than men are at least in the past but i i think this difference of experience that men, we have sympathy for victims victims.
But do we have sympathy for people who expose themselves to unneeded risk?
Right? So if your kid is drowning and you risk drowning to save your kid, everybody would say, well, that's a necessary risk. You have to go and save your kid, right?
Are people who expose themselves to unnecessary risk?

[27:47] Can I throw a thought out there? Basically, I mean, social pressure.
I mean, even in the kind of example that you outlined, if if you were kind of on the fence about going to this place and your friend reassured you, hey, oh, no, that's not going to happen.
It's all fine, because, I mean, you know, women tend to have a lot of social pressure against them, but they need to do certain things.
So that way they fit in with the group a bit more.
But that's almost my sort of thoughts on that initially is just that social pressure and where that actually factors into how much sympathy I guess you're entitled to.

[28:21] Well, or to put it another way, if I can sort of judo your statement here, do men refrain from putting themselves in risky situations because we know we'll receive mockery, ridicule, and probably zero, if not negative, sympathy if we do those things?
In other words, is the amount of sympathy that is provided for people doing unwise things related to them being willing to do those unwise things?

[28:51] I would agree, yeah. I would agree with that. And one of the...
Okay, a couple years ago, in Vancouver, at the University of British Columbia, there was a rapist going around.

The responsibility of women in dangerous situations

[29:05] And he had assaulted a number of women. So the university bought these ads to put on the public transportation buses that said to women, if you're on the UBC campus, make sure you're not walking alone.
And a lot of women thought that was totally unfair, because it's like, well, why should we be responsible to huddle together and walk around in groups to avoid this person when the responsibility should fall on the university?
I mean, this wasn't a nightclub or anything, but for some reason, it was decided in the institution that the responsibility should fall onto women.
What do you think about that, Steph? Well.

[29:45] Tell me what you mean. And that's very interesting. Tell me what you mean by responsibility. I mean, if there is a predator loose, and I guess we can talk about this rapist as a human predator.
If there is a predator loose, like, let's say, I mean, let's take a silly example.
Let's say that there was a lion loose on the campus, right?
And the men had to go. Let's say it was an all-male campus and a lion was loose on the campus.
And men were told, don't travel alone because lions like to prey on mammals separated from the herd.
I know this sounds kind of absurd, but if there was a predator loose on the campus and men had to travel from one building to another and men were told, don't travel alone, what do you think the response of men would be?

[30:34] Well, I think that they would maybe try not to travel alone, but it would be different to to ask men to, to travel in groups, if they were in like a wildlife sanctuary, then it would be if they were, you know, in a, in a place that's supposed to be safe.
And I feel like it's important to distinguish between like, you know, where, where are you more responsible for putting yourself in danger?
I feel like there's a lot of instances in society where women are in normal situations where they're attacked and then people will say to women, well, you shouldn't have been there or you shouldn't have been dressed like that.
And it's It's like, well, where is the responsibility supposed to fall?

[31:12] Right. So I think you've tripped on a couple of fantastic points.
The first is that, and again, men, correct me if I'm wrong, for men, everything is always a wildlife sanctuary.
Maybe if you're home, your house is locked, but for men, everything is a wildlife sanctuary.
I'm aware of this when I'm out with my family, we're at a mall or something like that.
If there's someone yelling or some sketchy guy around or whatever, I'm checking for exits I'm shepherding my family away from the situation.
So for men, out there in the world, there are few, if any, safe places.

[31:46] And for women, I guess there is places where they expect to be safe.
Now, but you're bringing in another topic as well, which is the question of responsibility, right?
So all of the examples that I was giving was when I or some guy was running their mouth or insulting people or whatever it was, right?
Or dressing in assless pants at a gay bar or something.
Thing and so it's not um as you're saying the campus should be safe for men there is no such thing as should be safe it's a question of is it safe the should be is kind of irrelevant it's it's kind of like well i should be able to insult someone because sticks and stones can break my bones but words will never hurt me and it's like i should i have free speech i should be able to call this guy a terrible name i have free speech it should be safe but the reality is that it isn't and so the should and so in this particular situation where you're talking about with ubc uh wherever you have an aggregation of young attractive females you're going to occasionally i assume you're going to draw predators and to some degree young attractive women have um attributes of course and desirability that is going to bring out the worst in some some men and to be fair in some women as well, because it's not like female rape is completely unknown.

Men and women's perception of safety and protection

[33:16] So saying I should be safe is not something I think that men process in much the same way, but you are bringing up a different situation.
So I was talking about where you're putting yourself at risk.
Now, if there is a predator around, you have to travel, in Paris. And saying it should be safe, well, you know what it is?
I think saying it should be safe is the female call for men to come and protect them.
But because we men don't have anyone to come and protect us, because we generally are the protectors, for me saying something should be safe, no one else can fix it.
Whereas I think if women say it should be safe, maybe that is more of a spur for men to deal with the situation, if that makes sense.

[34:02] It does make sense. Thanks for that, Steph.

[34:05] Yeah, I appreciate that. I appreciate that. I mean, I also remember, I can't remember, I might be at the University of Toronto or something that there was, this is many years ago, there was a woman who was complaining that an older man in the university swimming pool was underwater watching her swim or watching the girls, the women swim, and that she felt unsafe and that this should be stopped.
Now, the man said, well, he was just practicing swimming underwater and so on, but that was the perception.
And of course, I mean, for a man to be admired is often, I mean, it's rare enough, you know, that old meme of like, women are told that they're pretty 10 times a day, and a man has to be satisfied with one woman 20 years ago who wasn't his mother saying that he was handsome.
So for men to be admired is rare enough and of course because we're more physically secure right we're more physically secure relative to other women but we're not physically secure.

[35:04] Relative to men so women of course complain and and rightly so that there are violent men out there in the world and there are times when they feel unsafe and that i completely sympathize and understand that.
But men are also unsafe relative to other men.
And in general, we as men, if we get into a physical fight with another man, or if another man aggresses against us, we're kind of on our own.
At least with women, if a man physically aggresses against you, other men in the vicinity will almost certainly intervene to help you.
Maybe not in New York City on the subway anymore, but other men will almost.
And I'm sure you've seen these videos, or maybe you haven't, but they're worth looking up, which is a couple are in a fight, and the woman hits the man, and everybody just walks around like nothing's happening.
They don't notice, they don't engage, they don't say anything.
But if the man and the woman are in a fight, and the man hits the woman, everybody rushes over to restrain him.
Women have a circle of protection in society that men don't have.
So the relative level of safety can be considered somewhat.

[36:16] Approximately similar, or at least not as dissimilar as women think, because women are scared of men, but also women will have men, usually, come and protect them from a wayward man.
Whereas men, as a whole, we're nervous of men, and sometimes of women, and we don't have...

[36:35] That group of men who are going to run to our aid if we get into some kind of trouble.

Men's lack of protection compared to women

[36:40] So there is a similarity with that kind of stuff.
So if there's more that people want to add, if you have sort of history or thoughts or memories of this kind of stuff, it would be helpful to get a hold of.

[36:50] I was just thinking, oh, go ahead. Oh, yeah.
One of the experiences that I've had as well, my wife has a lot of women enjoys listening to a lot of the uh like crime podcasts things like that and there's a whole bunch of these stories about women that just go missing and like as you listen to it a lot of them are just they're going to these clubs they're getting rides from strangers and it's almost one of these more like it's just inevitable that at some point they're going to come across somebody who's you know a bad person and so yeah they're they're putting themselves in these situations they're They're going to, quote unquote, have fun, but they're having fun is a very dangerous situation.
And then and then it's suddenly just like, oh, it was so terrible.
How could this have happened when they repeatedly put themselves in these risky situations?

[37:42] Right. So that's I can't remember the exact statistics, but it's something like five percent of men are capable of sexual assault.
Like it would even it would even cross their mind as an option of course 95 of men would protect women and are horrified at the very idea so let's just say give or take whatever it depends on the culture and the ideology or whatever it is but let's just say five percent okay so uh think of a 20-sided dice if you know this from dungeons and dragons or other sort of games so every time you go home with a guy you're rolling the dice and hey maybe you'll go home with 50 guys and never meet that guy.
Or maybe you roll one the very first time.
But you are rolling the dice.

[38:29] I mean, I see these videos of guys, scuba divers underwater, right?
And some shark swings up to them and they just pet the nose and so on.
It's like, okay, so that shark is just curious and not hungry.
But you're rolling the dice every time, right?
You're rolling the dice every time and don't roll the dice.
You know, if I'm at the bar and I lose the pool game to a guy named Tiny and I call him a slur, nine times out of ten, he won't punch me.
Like he'll laugh or he'll call me some name back or he'll just call me an a-hole or like he'll do, but he won't, he won't actually punch me in the face.
But I don't know who that is. Like only half of smokers die from smoking, but you don't know which half you're on, so don't smoke. Look, and so, yeah, those odds.
So women engaged in risky behaviors...

[39:25] Are rolling the dice. Now, women say, and this is something, again, I have a tough time processing.
They say, well, the world should be safe and people shouldn't assault me.
Of course, but the world is not safe and people do assault women.
So that's just a reality. And living in the, it oughtn't be this way, is something I can't quite comprehend.
And there's something thing about and if you know if there are women listening please i mean with all humility i i beg to be educated on this so if there is a rapist around on the university campus.

[40:05] I mean i understand it's you know not convenient if you've got to travel in in packs and so on the man shouldn't be doing that but shouldn't shouldn't don't really exist in the male world maybe shouldn't shouldn't is something that men enact for women which is why why it's worth them saying that, but should or shouldn't, to me, don't really exist in the masculine world.
The world isn't should or shouldn't. The world is is or isn't.
There isn't a threat. Good.
There is a threat. I need to deal with it. The should or shouldn't part, the sort of wish fulfillment as opposed to the empiricism, right?
I mean, you can can wander around Africa petting lions if you want, and probably 19 times out of 20, the lions won't do anything, because they're not hungry.
And how do we know they're not hungry? Maybe you just pet the ones lying in the sun or something like that.
But, you know, you roll a one, and then you get your arm chewed off, right?

The Promise of Safety in Society

[41:05] I think there's a promise made to people in society that if they stay in safe areas, then they should be free to roam without having to huddle together in groups or to walk around with a weapon to defend themselves.
Like in the University of British Columbia, you pay a fee, you're supposed to get security for that.
And you're supposed to be promised that there are security cameras and other things that are there to protect you.
And I think it's the same, you know, when you live in a civilized society, it's like, well, we all pay our taxes, and we all follow the rules, because there's this promise that we're making to each other, that it's going to be safe.
And yet, it's still often not safe. And so I wonder, you know, like, where do we draw the line?
Because of course, yeah, if you're at like a nightclub at 3am and someone gropes you, well, it's like, well, this is like a groping zone, right?
Like everybody knows they're going out.

[42:03] Groping zone. That's great. I should have worked that into my marriage vows. But anyway, go on.

[42:09] But, you know, if you're going to church, let's say, right, on a Sunday, and you step out last from church, and somebody who's a member of the congregation assaults you, well, then it's kind of a little unfair to blame the victim, right?
Because the victim had every reason to think that they were in a safe place.

[42:29] Listen, I completely agree with you. And so, yeah, blaming the victim when you're making good decisions.
But my question is, so the first person, the first woman who was assaulted by this rapist, obviously massive sympathies and all of that.
Now, the question then becomes when the women have been told that there's a rapist and we can't catch him.
I assume that the university was bending over backwards to try and catch the rapist, but they couldn't catch, they hadn't caught the rapist yet, right?

[42:59] Well, actually, just to chime in, an all-female group of people went undercover and had women stand around to bait him, and that's how they caught him.

[43:12] Fantastic. Okay. Now, between there's a rapist on campus and the time when he's caught, what is the status of women who are told it's not safe, you shouldn't travel alone?
What is the status of the victimhood of the women who choose to travel alone in the middle of the night, having been told that there's danger?

[43:39] Right, well, they're more responsible then, because they know that the danger is there, but they've been let down by the society around them, by the institution who's supposed to protect them.

[43:52] No, but how is the university supposed to prevent a rapist from coming on campus?
It's not a gated community.
It's open to the public, right? I mean, anyone can come in and roam around.
They don't check ID everywhere. There's not armed guards everywhere. It's not a prison.
So there are rapists in society, and I assume that they would come to a university because there are young women who are traveling alone, in particular at nighttime and so on.
So the fact is that there are rapists in society.
How is the university breaking its promise if the women know that it's open to society as a whole and in society as a whole there are rapists.
I'm genuinely happy to be educated on this because I'm on the edge of my masculine knowledge here.

[44:50] Can I ask a question? Is this about Canada?

[44:56] It's what about Canada? Yeah, this is the University of British Columbia, was it? UBC?

[45:01] Yeah. Yeah. Any stats on the ethnic makeup of the average rapist?

[45:07] No, no, forget it. I don't want to care about the ethnic stuff right now.
I just really want to talk about women.

[45:13] Sorry.

[45:14] The women who feel... Hang on just a sec. I just want to go back to the woman who was talking.
So the women who feel somehow they've been let down or whatever, it's like, but the university can't keep everyone out and the rapist is around.
Is that the fault of the university?

Women feeling let down in terms of security and respect

[45:34] I think you're making a really good point, Steph. And I think that's where most people settled.
But I just think that for women, we felt kind of left, like let down.
We felt like, okay, you're promising us security and you're promising us respect.
But when it really comes down to it, we're kind of like left on our own and we have to huddle together and just sort of live in fear.
I mean, they could have done things like instead of spending money on those advertisements, advertisements, telling women to huddle together, they could have spent that on additional security, or they themselves could have come up with the same plan that those students did to bait out the rapist. I think that it's just...

[46:14] Oh, I'm pretty sure the administration can't recruit women to be bait for a rapist.

[46:19] No, of course not.

[46:20] I'm pretty sure that would end up in court in some horrendous manner.

[46:24] But you seem to be expecting more special treatment on campus than you would it in regular life. The police don't.
Well, I think if there was a racist going around raping men, men would have been really, really terrified as well.
It just so happens that rapists and criminals usually go for weaker people.
So they'll go for women or they'll go for disabled people. But I don't think it's really a question of women expecting more security and safety than men.
But it's just kind of like even in situations where you're not putting yourself in danger, where you're just going to school or you're just going to work, these things can still happen.
And I And I think a lot of the time the victims are still blamed, right? People will say, well, why were you dressed like that?
Well, why did you, why did you smile at this person?
Why, why did you do this or that? And it's like, I feel like that's sort of missing the point.
It's like this lazy approach to dealing with the deeper issues that, that perpetuate this kind of.
I want to, your original comment was about feeling put on because they told female students to walk together in order to ensure their safety from some short period of time.

[47:31] Well, I'm sorry, just hold your thought. But I also just wanted to point out that this young lady was also talking about that they pay fees to the university for security and for protection.
And so it's not like they want more protection than society as a whole.
It's just that this is a campus that has control over the environment, and they're already taking money to provide protection which wasn't being experienced so i just wanted to sort of mention that because you said they want more protection than society as a whole but no if you pay a security guard you expect more protection for that right unless.

[48:07] They lock lock everything down but i mean even a really nice neighborhood you're not guaranteed safety the police don't guarantee you safety.

[48:16] Oh quite the contrary i mean a nice neighborhood is more likely to be robbed in some ways.

[48:21] But my point is, we as individuals are responsible for our safety.
So if a police department in, say, some fancy town or on campus, whatever, says there's a string of robberies or car thefts or assaults, I would want them to tell us and to warn us to take extra precautions.
I wouldn't be insulted by it. Yeah.

[48:40] Make sure you don't leave your garage door open. Make sure you lock everything.
Make sure you – and this is the thing, too.
And I think this is part of the difference in mindset. said.
And listen, this isn't any criticism of women at all.
I'm genuinely curious about this. I think women are wonderful and we've evolved to be great companions to each other.
But I don't think men experience an expectation of safety as a whole.
I think when men are out in the world, we are, you know, there's this sort of famous meme, it's a guy being attacked by a bear in convenience store.
Like it's an actual photo of a guy who's being attacked by a bear in a convenience store.
And the caption is like 99.9% of men's mental activity is spending a lifetime preparing for just such a scenario. And there's real truth in that.
So women have an expectation of safety, which men don't in general have. Sorry, go ahead.

[49:34] Their expectation of safety was determined by men, fathers and husbands and brothers and neighborhoods that were the same culture and the same religion.
And we, maybe as men, owe it to women to warn them that it's not safe anymore.
It's not, you can't expect it to be like it was in the 80s in some nice suburb.

[49:55] Yeah. I mean, if you look at the rape statistics in Sweden, well, that has a lot to do with this sort of sympathy for migrants and so on.
So this sense of danger is, to me, a little bit confusing confusing, because I don't know why you would then vote for policies which seem to be increasing the prevalence of sexual assault and rape, to the point where I think now one in six Swedish women can expect to be sexually assaulted over the course of her lifetime, and a lot of that has to do with policies that they're voting for.
So the sense of danger is always a little confusing to me.
So I don't particularly, like women say, I'm so scared, I'm so scared, and then it won't change their voting behaviors when risks begin to manifest.
So perhaps that's a quicksand too deep for me to get in and out of in one piece.
But I do think that there is this expectation of safety that women have that men don't experience as a whole.
Because women say, well, why should I have to restrain my behavior because there are dangerous people around?
And for men, it's like, that's how I've lived since I was two years old.
Of course, I have to restrain my behavior because there are dangerous people around. Of course, I mean, that's something that boys have gone from. Sorry, go ahead.

[51:07] Isn't this a modern Western concept? I mean, I was born in the mid 70s.
So I was a child in the late 70s and the 80s. We were told about, you know, be careful, the guy with the white van, you know, they were abducting kids or something like that, even if it was nonsense or not.
We were taught these things. And we did go ride our bikes together at groups.
I mean, when I became when I was in my 20s, I lived in Manhattan.
My friends and I, we didn't go home by ourselves at two or three in the morning.
Actually, my friend fell asleep on a subway once by himself and had a jog down the street in East Harlem at like three in the morning because he was drunk and he was the only white guy in a really bad neighborhood.
I mean, these are I think that the idea of safety is a very, very modern concept.
I mean, I think we've done a disservice. I don't think I don't I mean, I know women feel more afraid and we can't quite imagine it.
But at the same time, who's telling them this, that they should have this expectation? Well.

Jogging through different neighborhoods in Washington, D.C.

[52:04] I also remember many years ago, I went with a friend to Washington, D.C., and I was a big jogger back then, because apparently I just didn't care about my knees.
But I was a big jogger back then, and I remember I would go jogging, and Washington is kind of strange, because you go from these great neighborhoods to these terrible neighborhoods, like in a block.
And I remember I would jog in through a pretty nice neighborhood.
Literally, I checked my watch or something, looked up, and it was a bad neighborhood, and I just turned around.
And it's like, well, I should be free to run in any neighborhood I want.
And it's like, no, I'm going to go back to the nice neighborhood.
And for me, this wasn't a sense of like that society wasn't fulfilling its promises or something had gone desperately awry. It's like, oh, this is a bad neighborhood.
And so I'm not going to run here. Like, and I didn't even really feel, and I don't remember feeling any particular sense of resentment or upset or anger.
It's like okay well um to me it would be like uh if if i was swimming in some beach in australia.

[53:06] And it said, we've got shark nets here, right? And then it turns out some shark had chewed through the net.
And there was a shark swimming around me. I'm not sure how long, would I feel like, oh my gosh, society and the beach has failed to fulfill its basic obligations towards me and I should be free to swim in there.
Shark nets are, I would just like, oh, I got to get back to shore because there's a shark here. I don't know how I would process.
And again, this is not any negative thing towards women at all.
I'm genuinely curious about the perspective.

[53:36] I can't picture my aunts who were in their late 70s when they were in their 30s or 40s not seeing danger.
We went places all the time. We went to the cities with my aunts and my mother. They were aware.
I mean, I think it's a very specific modern Western thing and modern as in the last 20 years.
I don't think the concept of women not being street smarts has any history to it.
I don't think it's that long ago that people had tons of it.

[54:05] Well, with the UBC thing, and again, I mean, obviously to the lady who's calling, I'm thrilled to hear more from you.
But with the UBC thing, as a man, if let's say it was a big, maybe tiny head turned predatory, like the guy from the biker bar.
And if there was a guy who was raping men, some big guy, and maybe he used chloroform or some sort of disabling chemical or agent to whatever, right?
So if there was a guy who was raping men, and I was told as a man on campus, don't travel alone, I'd be like, well, thank you.
I appreciate the warning so that I can stay safe. I appreciate that. Thank you.
As opposed to there's a fundamental breakdown of the social contract and somehow it's wrong and bad. And, you know, like if you do get an alert that there's a lion loose in your neighborhood, I would be grateful that I would not get my ass chewed off by it.
Like, you know what I mean? Like, and listen, what these women did and the bait thing and all of that, I mean, obviously a little risky, but good for them.
That's like, that's great.
But the sort of social contract stuff and the resentment and I should be safe and I don't, I don't quite follow that. Sorry.

Discussing the UBC rapist case and predators.

[55:21] Didn't the police get involved somehow in that case you described with the women?

[55:28] If anyone can look up that UBC rapist and could read us off a little.
I'm currently in the process of walking around, so I won't try and look it up right now.
But if somebody can, James, if you could look that up, UBC, University of British Columbia rapist.
I think this is about 20 years ago, maybe a little longer. But if you could look that up and give us some deets, I'd appreciate that.
Because yeah, our speculation is a little rife. But yeah, I mean, the fact that there are predators out there and that there is danger out there.
And as a man, I don't feel resentful that I have to restrain my behavior in the face of danger.
So, for instance, as I sort of mentioned before, when I was, say, 2018 or something, like four years ago, four and a half years ago, when I was giving my speeches in Australia, I was out with my security and my family, and we got word that hard leftists were hunting the streets for us.
And, you know, that would have been obviously pretty bad. Now, what happened, we don't have to get into particular details about what happened, but it was quite exciting.

[56:40] It never crossed my mind that I'm resentful, there's this fundamental breakdown in social order, and it's like, okay, well, we have to get to safety.
There's predators out there who want to do us harm, and we have to get to safety.
And I wouldn't sit there and say, well, I have security, because I don't want security, I don't want the security to be harmed either, right?
So it's just like, okay, there's this fact of nature.

[57:03] To me, predation is kind of like a fact of nature. Now, this doesn't mean people don't have free will, and I get all the abstract moral responsibility and all of that.
But in terms of practical reality, if there were communists or leftists or whatever hunting us through the streets, I wasn't going to be able to reason them out of whatever aggression they wanted to perform on my security, on myself, on my family.
Like, that wasn't—we were beyond debate. bait at this point it's just become like a you don't talk the lion out of being hungry and you don't talk the people who want to aggress against you and are hunting you out of being aggressive towards you like you're beyond conversation at that point and so i just view it as a sort of fact of life like gravity is a fact of life so when i was a kid i i didn't jump from walls that were too high i didn't resent gravity i just viewed it as a fact of nature sorry somebody was was going to say?

[57:57] Yeah, I just wanted to say, you just touched on something that, you know, gravity is a fact of life.
I think a lot of what we're seeing is the fact that evil has been removed from the lexicon as being a fact of life.

[58:08] I'm sorry, what has?

[58:09] We've acted like.

[58:10] Oh, evil.

[58:11] Evil.

[58:12] Evil behavior.

[58:13] Evil actions, evil people. You know, we have been under siege with this concept that every criminal is because he's poor and he was disadvantaged, which is not the case.
And I think that part of what we're seeing, that maybe it's coming out, you know, more pronounced in the different sexes, is the fact that we've taken evil out of the concept.
We've taken evil out of the normal, you know, the normal everyday, you know, thought process, especially since, you know, much of Christianity has been undermined. I mean, that is...

The Existence of Evil and Dealing with It

[58:42] Yeah. So there shouldn't be... So the women say there shouldn't be evil, and the men say, but there is.
You might as well wish for there to be no gravity. Right.
There is evil. There are evil people out there, and they're not people you can reason with. You either have to fight them or escape them.
And so the idea that there shouldn't be evil, I find kind of, like, there is, there is. You look everywhere in the world. There is evil.
I mean, I remember many years ago, I think the movie might have been called Time After Time or something like that, but it was a movie where Jack the Ripper was vaulted forward through time, and he was on the a TV, like the murderer from 19th century England, which, you know, he targeted women and violence against women was so uncommon that he became notorious, right?
And so he vaulted forward through time, I guess, into the 80s, and he was flipping through the channels at all of the violence and the war and the poverty and the aggression and all of that.
And he was like, hey, this is my world.
Here's where I feel comfortable. And I remember being quite struck by that scene, that Jack the Ripper came forward in time and it's like yeah this is finally i've won and this is sort of my my world so yeah there are there are people out there who are very aggressive trigger happy violent and sociopathic and it's not common but they're there and you have to be careful that's a fact of life and can.

[1:00:08] I jump in.

[1:00:08] Sorry just.

[1:00:10] I just want to mention something here um just just offering another perspective and this This comes from a conversation that I had with a girl who's a friend of mine.
And I was again reminded of this. And maybe this is partially the reason why women and men see things so differently, because she was talking about the fact how she is constantly uptight about her safety because she's dealing with men who are 50 to 100% bigger than she is.
She's constantly thinking about the fact that she is afraid of men and she's always uptight about it and that she has to like somehow deal with that you know to a certain degree she has to you know look at their niceness and see how they're reacting to her and they're it's like a little bit of a buffer whereas men don't have to deal with that i'm i'm not walking down wait sorry What do you mean?

[1:01:09] Men don't have to deal with that. Men have to deal with male violence, don't they?

[1:01:13] No, but in terms of talking about with women, you know, men deal with men from a rational point of view, but men are not afraid of women in the way that women are afraid of men.

[1:01:26] I can't even tell you how much I disagree with everything you're saying.
It doesn't mean I'm right.
But I think men are terrified of women at the moment because women now come with the power of the state and false accusations and family courts and child support and alimony.
And so I think men are generally terrified of women because women legally often have the upper hand.
And, of course, if a woman cries, if a woman rushes to her defense and attacks the man.
And so I think men are generally terrified. A lot of men are quite terrified of women at the moment.

Men's Fear of Women and the Breakdown of Protection

[1:01:57] Maybe you missed the beginning of the conversation, but I was talking about how, as boys, we're aware that there are bigger, aggressive boys around who can be violent, and you have to learn how to deal with and manage that.
Trying to wish them out of existence or saying, well, the school should deal with them and so on, that doesn't happen.
It's like trying to wish gravity out of existence.
It just is a fact of life that there are going to be, when you're growing up, that there are going to be bullies in the environment, they're going to be bigger and stronger, and they're not going to be concerned about causing you pain, and that's just a fact.
So, again, outside of my home, my concern was with male violence.
So, yes, of course, I mean, the additional factor that women have vaginas and so on that men want to, some evil men want to assault and all of that, that definitely is a factor.
But um the fact is that uh men certainly are frightened of of men and and wisely so because men can be predators and certainly in the modern world at least maybe not so much in the past but in the modern world for sure uh men are definitely frightened of women and i think i think that let me just ask you this is your friend who's who's frightened of men as a whole is she single.

[1:03:12] Yes, she is.

[1:03:13] Right. So, women in the past would be under the protection of the man, right?
So, if you remember, or if you heard this at the beginning, I was talking about how if you're a bully, a male bully, you have to be careful who you pick on, because who you pick on might have a big older brother, or some crazy dad who's going to beat you up, or something like that, right?
Wasn't there in some true detective series, I saw a little snippet, it was pretty horrifying, Colin Farrell goes over to some kid who's been bullying his kid and beats up the father in front of him and then says the most vile and appalling things to the kid.
Or in the movie Kindergarten Cop, there's a child abuser and Arnold Schwarzenegger, who's an undercover cop pretending to be a kindergarten teacher, beats him up in front of everyone.
So even if you pick on your own kids, there could be somebody who's going to beat you up. So the size is not particularly relevant because there's always a bigger person, there's always a bigger fish, right, for that Star Wars movie.
There's always a bigger person who's going to be around.
But generally what would happen is women would outsource their protection to the men around them, right?
Women would outsource their protection to the men around them.
So women have not developed as keen a sense of danger, I think, because the sense of danger was outsourced to the men.

[1:04:40] And one of the big frustrations of modern society is men saying, there's danger, there's danger, and women saying, oh, that's wrong, you're crazy, you know, we have to have sympathy or whatever it is, right?
There's danger, there's danger. And so I think that women have not developed as much of a sense of danger.
And also, I think maybe, and if the lady is still around, obviously correct me if I go astray, but I think that women, when they say, I'm resentful that I'm in danger, they're basically saying to the men around them, you are failing to protect me, which is my right.

[1:05:11] And in a way, it is their right, because nature has so evolved us as men and women, that the The women have given up their sense of danger on the condition that the men protect them.
So when the men don't protect them, like the woman was saying, there's a social contract that's been broken and the men in charge of the university or security aren't doing their jobs.
And so it's like, okay, so women say, listen, I've given up my sense of danger in a sense so that men can protect me.
And if I've given up my sense of danger and men aren't protecting me, I'm really vulnerable.

The Vulnerability of Single Women in Urban Environments

[1:05:44] And so because women stay single for so long and often live in neighborhoods where there are a lot of dangerous, it's not like they're single and out there in the suburbs, because the suburbs is usually for married people with kids.
So women are in these sort of urban environments. They don't have a boyfriend.
They're not walking with a man. And so they feel a sense of vulnerability because they are not being protected in the way I think that we evolved by not just her boyfriend or her husband, but by her brothers, because, you know, there would be women would be protected by their brothers.
That old song by the police, right, about a guy who's broken up with a girlfriend, and he says, and your brother's going to kill me, and he's six feet ten, right?
And so, because people had a lot of siblings, and the sisters had brothers who would protect them, and there would be lots of men around who would protect them, so women could relax, in a sense, their sense of threat by outsourcing it to men.
But because women are choosing to live without men or the protection of men.

[1:06:45] Then I think they kind of vacillate between not feeling danger when they should, feeling danger when they shouldn't, and generally feeling a lot of threat as a whole because they are unprotected and, in a sense, not as tuned and trained by childhood to manage threat.
Because as boys, we know, at least when I was growing up, if a boy hit a girl, and I honestly can't remember this ever happening. I can't remember this happening.
But if a boy hit a girl, all the other boys would pile on that boy and would pull him off and throw him around or whatever it is. Don't hit girls. Don't hit girls.
So girls grew up with this sense of general protection, and then when they get older, it kind of vanishes. Sorry, I'm not sure if somebody else wanted to jump in.

[1:07:31] I'd love to just chime in here because I think you're touching on something really important.
That is how men and women find attractiveness in each other.
Like women find strong men attractive, but a woman is found attractive by her gentleness.
But women don't need to be gentle. And we're seeing that in all of these weird sort of perversions of our society right now, right?
Like women could be like cavemen, right? We could take a bunch of testosterone and be hairy and dirty and smelly and gross.

[1:08:05] I like your associations with masculinity there, but all right.

[1:08:08] Well, I don't mean it that way, but it's like women choose to be gentle so that we can be more attractive to men and we can signal to them that we're willing to create a gentle, safe, and nurturing environment for children to be raised in.
And I think for us, when we put all of this energy into being gentle and, and then we're not protected, we feel kind of betrayed. And I think that's why there are a lot of people these days doing crazy things like trying to transition into being men.
I think it comes from this sort of sense of betrayal, a sense of this breaking of the social contract, which is I will be gentle and delicate so long as you protect me, because if I'm gentle and delicate, I can't really protect myself.

[1:08:57] Well, but women are supposed to be protected by men, not institutions.

Women's Attractiveness and the Role of Men's Protection

[1:09:02] Right? So women, for instance, will, young women, and again, there's tons of exceptions, but a lot of young women will dress in a very attractive or attractive to men fashion, right?
And that doesn't necessarily mean a lot of skin, but whatever it is, showing off their figure.
Right now, should women be free to do this? Absolutely. Is any man who treats them badly because of this wrong? Absolutely.
But it's still a fact of life that when you dress in a way that it's going to attract a lot of men, you're going to attract some bad men.
So, of course, women were supposed to go through the phase of attracting a man for a relatively short period of time in our evolution, right?

[1:09:41] Whatever the age was, let's just say 18 or whatever. So whenever the age is that a woman could marry, she's supposed to be as attractive as possible, whatever that means.
It could be showing a bit of ankle in the Victorian era or whatever it is.
So as attractive as possible to attract men, but she would attract a lot of men under the protection of fathers, uncles, grandfathers, brothers, you name it, cousins.

[1:10:01] And so she would attract a lot of men under the protection of men, and then she would choose a man to be her provider and protector for the the rest of her life so it's a very short period of time where women were supposed to display their maximum attractiveness while under the protection of man and then of men as a whole the relatives and other men in the community and then choose a man to protect her and then she gets busy having kids and raising a family and then that sort of maximum attractiveness stuff like it's supposed to be a real flash in the pan it's supposed to be a real short thing and then the woman is supposed to be protected by other men but now women are out there in a solitary fashion doing the maximum attractiveness stuff for a variety of reasons without the protection of any individual men and under the quote protection of institutions which generally doesn't really work as well because there's not that same investment i mean the university campus security officers aren't going to be as protective of you as your brother would be or your father would be it's just not not really the same so i think turning yeah or your husband but if it's your husband right so this is the thing if it's your husband then are you going to be walking around in the middle of the night alone with your active maximum attraction gear on well no because you're home with your husband and you're pregnant or you're raising kids or like you're not out there dressed in a mini skirt in the middle of the night walking alone right that's just not a not a thing right.

[1:11:30] And so it was pretty hard to prey on women in the past.
And I think, though, it's kind of tough for women to say, because, listen, women love to be...

[1:11:43] Admired and look we all do right but women women love to i mean you can see this on instagram you know does this dress make me look fat like women do love to be admired and there's obviously very important biological reasons for that and i'm not complaining about it or saying there's anything negative about it's just a fact of life like gravity women love to be admired and women love it when men find them attractive of course i mean that's that's important and men love it when women find them attractive, but at least when I was growing up, it tended to be more men pursuing women.
So women very much enjoy when the right men are attracted to them.
So what would happen, of course, in the past is women would turn on their maximum.

[1:12:30] Attraction flares, so to speak, going up, and then it would attract men.
And her father, brothers, uncles, grandfathers, cousins, would all filter the men out and make sure that only good men would get through to her.
Right, so that you'd have to pass through the masculine filter to even have a shot at success.

[1:12:54] The girl right now that masculine filter is gone now it's direct you know tinder or whatever it is plenty of fish so now it's maximum attractiveness like the women on they choose their best pictures their most attractive pictures for the social media sites or whatever it is so it's maximum attractiveness not settling down under the protection of a man and without a filter to keep Keep out the bad men, because men are good at figuring out who the bad men are.
I mean, certainly I think better than women, because otherwise there wouldn't be so many single moms, right?

Men's ability to filter out bad men vs. bad women

[1:13:33] So men are not particularly great at figuring out the bad women.
And we'll get to this in a sec, because I also think that's a very interesting topic. But men are good at figuring out the bad men, because we're not blinded by lust, right?
So some tall, good-looking guy, I mean, this is what a lot of the Jane Austen novels are about or really the 19th century warn the women novels that men are really good at figuring out the bad men and so they will put the kibosh on the bad men and say none shall pass you shall not pass kind of thing so i think women have the instinct to put on maximum attractiveness to attract the maximum number of men knowing that the men in their lives will filter out the bad men or threaten the bad men or you know undermine or sabotage the bad men or whatever it's going to to be, right?
Or really warn the women about the bad men so they can do that.
But that filter is gone, and I don't think women have evolved to have that filter because that gender loop is outsourced to the men, if that makes sense.

[1:14:30] Well, and they've also kind of, especially among younger women, kind of been deluded into thinking that going out dressed in a scantily clad way is actually actively combating that negative behavior from that.

[1:14:45] I'm not sure I follow.

[1:14:48] I'm trying to think of probably the best way to describe it, but basically, you know, normalizing behavior because they're fighting the patriarchy, those types of things, right?
That if they continue to do that, you know, they're basically fighting against, you know, tyrannical male standards or whatever it is, right?

[1:15:08] Oh, so they are fighting against the patriarchy by wearing like a miniskirt.
Is that the general theory?

[1:15:13] Yeah, basically.

[1:15:14] Excellent.

[1:15:15] I mean, look at most women in their early 20s that are on the web or on dating apps and girls in their teens.
And you look even like at the uniforms for like team sports, the protection is gone because the fathers are allowing their daughters to dress like what used to be reserved for prostitutes.
And the mothers are saying, OK, so that's the normal thing.
So the concept of like should women you know take on a little bit more of a fear yeah maybe because i don't know who's protecting these younger women now if they're allowed to go out there like there is no bad well if you think from an evolutionary standpoint if.

[1:15:57] You think from an, Women who were overly cautious about appearing attractive while they had male filters for the bad guys around them would not do as well.
They would not have as much reproductive success with this higher quality man.
Whereas a woman who can do maximum attractiveness knowing that she has protective men around her will tend to attract a higher quality male because she's more attractive and she has the male filter.
So I don't think that women are naturally inclined to turn down their own level of attractiveness as a whole.
There's tons of exceptions, but because they've evolved to not do that because they would have the masculine filter around them.
And whether that was arranged marriages or just having the general protection of aggressive men to to keep the bad guys away and we all know the cliched speech you've seen it a million times in movies which is you know that the the father's saying if you ever hurt my little girl you know, i've got a a shovel in a big backyard you know that kind of thing right and that's um i think that's kind of important and that has largely fallen by the wayside sorry i interrupted if you you or at least overspoke if you want to continue how.

[1:17:09] Much how much is this how much does all this stuff have to do with the hypersexuality that we've been under you know under siege with in the west for you know i don't know 30 years or so is it cause and effect though.

Hypersexuality and the impact on setting limits and danger perception

[1:17:20] Right that's the question.

[1:17:21] Well i think it's i think it's restrained it removes the restraints i think because if everybody's hypersexual around you it's harder for you to set any sort of limits on your teenage age children and then it's hard to set your limits on your you know 20 something kids and everybody goes away to school and everybody bings drinks and girls in college dress ridiculously, and then it accelerates this this like enticement that everyone thinks that they're open to it and then you have weaker men all around you and fathers with no restraints i mean, If I was a female in my 20s, I wouldn't live in New York City now, not in 2024, maybe in 1995.

[1:18:04] Well, and certainly not 1975 either. And of course, also the birth control has been shown to lower women's sense of danger because it obviously is hormonal and sense of danger has something to do.

[1:18:16] It messes up their ability to read facial expressions. I could see that with women.
The women on the pill can't flirt like a woman who's not on the pill.
There's something that goes on with the reading of faces alright.

[1:18:28] Let me let me sorry if there's anybody else who wants to mention something on this topic I wanted to switch over to the man side.

[1:18:35] I think a lot of people kind of missed the point that predators are actually pretty good at what they do, and just like you know kids get bullied in school because people can kind of sense their lack of about any kind of packing.
I think that's something that a lot of people don't read very well.

[1:19:05] Yeah, certainly bullies have more experience usually than their victims, because the bullies have usually figured out how to be a bully for a long time, because they're usually older and bigger and so on.
Is there anything else that anybody wanted to mention? Because I do want to, after the ladies first, I wanted to sort of switch to the man side.

[1:19:21] I did try to find a story about 20 odd years ago, give or take, about the UBC where the students tried, students actually successfully captured the fella.
I couldn't really find anything on that, but I did find there were some things in UBC, actually, from 2013 and 2016, several reports, and they never caught the guy from 2013, apparently.
And I wasn't able to find the guy from 2013, it sounds like.
And there was another string of sexual assault and reprior cases in 2016 as well.
Well um just just to say you know the ubc has had more than a few run-ins with uh sexual predators uh allegations and reports on on campus um the one from 2016 does have a post like there's a big old there's this from twitter from 2016 they're like a significant post maybe that's the one that uh uh our lady was our lady friend was talking about earlier um but uh yeah i couldn't find anything about the actual like students like capturing them or baiting them.

[1:20:25] Well we'll see if we could find something down the road and maybe we can talk about it some more it really sounds like a fascinating story i was really surprised to hear it it sounded almost like an urban myth just because uh organizing yourself in that kind of way sounds like the plot of a movie rather than something that would actually happen but you know i mean always always happy to be surprised it's what keeps me young all right so let's let's turn to the male side of things with regards to to sexuality, right?
So, in one of the examples from the documentary that I watched, the girl, and I think she was 18 or something like that, so I don't mean to say, I don't mean to be diminishing towards women, but I'm going to say girl because she really was quite young.
The girl was so drunk that she couldn't remember most of the evening.
I think she also had one of them, I can't remember if it was that woman or another, had a fake ID, which is why she was able to go to a bar and drink, and so on, right?

Risks Faced by Women

[1:21:32] So, from a man's standpoint, as we talk about the risks to women, so let's talk about the risks to men, and this is a question of sympathy.
So, if you have a friend, let's call him Jake, Jake the Rake, right? So you have a friend, Jake, and Jake has a habit of picking up drunk girls, sleeping with them, and then leaving in the middle of the night.
I think if you care about Jake, you would tell him, don't do that.
I mean, obviously, unwanted pregnancies, STDs, stalkers, it's inhuman to use other people as fleshlight masturbatory devices, but you would just tell him to not do that.
Now, you would also say to him, Jake, look, man, here's a very real risk that you are are courting a very very real risk and the real risk is this so you pick up some girl she's drunk.

[1:22:33] Now you say you want to have sex she's like sure and you have sex and maybe it's kind of awkward maybe you forget the lubrication whatever it is right like maybe there's some difficulty with penetration or something like that and then afterwards you say was that good and she's like like, yeah, it was fine, and then she passes out, right? And then you get up and you go home.
Now then, Jake, my friend, the woman is going to wake up in the morning, and her vagina is going to be sore.
Or maybe you leaned with your elbow on her ribcage and she's got a bit of a bruise or something like that, right?
And she's going to wake up, and she's not going to remember giving consent.
She's going to remember you.
She probably remembers your first name.
But she's not going to remember giving consent. And her vagina is tender and she's got a bruise.

[1:23:30] Now, you could pass a lie detector test, let's say there was some magic wand that was accurate.
You, Jake, could pass some lie detector test saying that the sex was consensual.
Now, she could also pass a magic 100% accurate lie detector test saying she does not remember giving consent.
She never gave consent. It was not consensual.
It was not consensual.
Because she can't remember giving consent.

[1:24:01] So, now, what's that non-consensual? If she can't remember giving consent?
Obviously, epistemologically, it's a challenging area, right?
But, she's going to wake up, and she's going to say, my vagina hurts, I've got a bruise, and I don't remember giving consent.
She is going to.
Probably think that she was raped or assaulted or it was not consensual.

[1:24:32] Now, if, I know, I hate to say our friend because who'd want to be friends with such a guy, right?
But let's just, if Jake then gets accused of sexual assault or rape, how much sympathy do we have for him who goes around picking up drunk girls, taking them home to, or going home to their place and having sex with them and then leaving in the middle of the night and so on, right?
Then the woman's just going to remember some guy came home with her.
She doesn't remember giving consent.
Her vagina hurts and she has a bruise.
Right? So she's going to be like, oh my God, I think I was raped, right?
Then I guess she goes to get a rape kit. The semen is in her.
Maybe you didn't use a...
A condom or something like that, or there's some DNA, there's hair, whatever it is, let's say that you found, right?
And then the police say, listen, you've been accused of rape.
And you're like, what are you talking about? It was consensual.

[1:25:41] And then the police might say something like, well, was she drunk?
Well, we had some drinks. How many drinks had you had, right?
And maybe they've got footage at the bar. She had eight drinks.
So she's pretty drunk. And of course, I think in a lot of places, I'm no lawyer, but I think in a lot of places, it is the case that a woman who is drunk can't consent.
Now, how drunk? If she's had one beer, can she consent? Yeah, probably.
Again, I'm no lawyer. I'm just guessing how this works, right?
If she's had 15 beers and she's unconscious, clearly she can't consent.
I mean, it's halfway to necrophilia at that point, right? right?
So if Jake keeps rolling the dice in this kind of way, let's go through the list, right?

Sympathy for Jake and Consequences of His Actions

[1:26:28] So if Jake keeps sleeping with women and he's raw dog and he's not using any condom, if he keeps sleeping with women, how sympathetic are we with Jake when he gets the clap or gonorrhea or chlamydia or herpes or something like how much sympathy do we have with Jake?
You can answer this one. It's a real question. How much sympathy do we have with Jake if he gets an STD.

Lack of Sympathy for Repeated Risk-Taking

[1:27:00] You don't. You don't have sympathy for him.

[1:27:03] Well, especially if you've outlined these risks and he keeps doing it, right?
Now, how much sympathy do we have? Let's say that Jake is, I don't know, wealthy and prominent, right?
How much sympathy do we have with Jake if a woman is overly persistent in trying to establish a relationship with him after he slept with her in a one-night stand?
Like she keeps calling and texting and I want to see you again and it was wonderful.
So how much sympathy do we have with Jake if he gets some kind of minor stalker activity based upon him sleeping with these women?

Sympathy for Jake in a drunk one-night stand

[1:27:44] The same, very little.

[1:27:46] Very little, right? Okay. How much sympathy do we have with Jake if he is drunk and the woman is drunk, they forget to use a condom, and she gets pregnant?
How much sympathy do we have with Jake if he ends up with an unplanned pregnancy with the woman he's having a one-night stand with?
Not much, right?

[1:28:14] I'd still have some sympathy for him.

[1:28:16] And why is that?

[1:28:19] Just because. Because he didn't commit to her, and he's screwed now.

[1:28:23] Okay, so hang on. So tell me, why is the negative consequences increased to some degree?
Why is the negative consequences increased as your sympathy go up too, right?

[1:28:37] Yeah, because it involves other people, I think, at this point, more so.

[1:28:40] Well, I think you'd have sympathy for the kid. it but i personally if i knew a guy who kept having drunken sex with women and and then dumping them or never kind of ghosting them or whatever right if he ended up with an unwanted pregnancy, i would have sympathy for the kid but i'm not sure how i would see my way clear and listen i'm again maybe i'm cold-hearted this way i'm totally happy to be schooled on this is everything thing what's the case for having sympathy for jake when he keeps having unprotected sex because he's too drunk to put on a condom.

[1:29:16] Yeah i don't actually i don't think i would i i'm just i trying to picture friends i've known but nobody was wasted all the time when they were doing something like that.

[1:29:25] Yeah and the wasted thing is just yeah the wasted thing is just an explanation as to why he might not use a condom but even if he wasn't wasted and used didn't use a condom well that's even worse now if Jake said hey man she told me she was on birth control or infertile, would you sympathy change, I mean, mine wouldn't in particular, because how on earth are you supposed to trust someone you don't even know?
And how on earth are you supposed to trust someone who's so unwise as to go and have unprotected sex with a stranger in a one-night stand? Sorry, go ahead.

[1:30:13] I think I have a solution for this, or maybe...

[1:30:16] Well, hang on, hang on. I'm not sure if we're at solution, which is still an exploration. I'm not sure what you're solving here, but go ahead.

[1:30:23] Okay, you'll decide. It's like, this is why, like, there are stages to the best relationships.
They go through initial acquaintance, then friendship, and then finally some intimacy, you know, and maybe a couple of dates, not necessarily sleeping on the first date.
And it's these stages of familiarity that sort of ensure security and social stability in a society. And I think Western society at some point had it.
I mean, even movies came out about it, but it's like that changed over time.
And now it's like everybody's rushing into it.
And I think that's why most of these problems are showing up.

Modern hookup culture and lack of vetting in relationships

[1:31:15] I think modern relationships, particularly among young people, not all, but in the hookup culture, it's just about sex.
So it's just about sexual access. Can I have sex?

[1:31:26] Well, that's the problem. That's the.

[1:31:27] Problem. No, I get that. That's exactly what I'm talking about, right? I get that.
And so, of course, if dating is going to lead to marriage, it's going to lead to kids, then you're going to be much more careful, right?
Going on a fifth date meant you were engaged. You'd be very careful who you dated.
And you'd have to vet them like crazy, right? So you'd have to say, okay, your family, your history, your drug use, your number of sexual partners, any STDs, your illness, your medical history, your educational history, your savings, your family's income or job expertise or skills, the quality of your parents, because they're going to be grandparents to my kids. Like, there'd be a whole bunch of vetting.
Whereas now you don't need to vet anyone to have sex with them just have sex with them and move on maybe move on maybe not so yeah there's no vetting.

[1:32:17] So if he were to say and I've literally had conversations with call-in show, participants about this a guy called in and, he had sex with a woman who was in her mid-thirties in a hot tub he was in his twenties right he had sex with a woman and she swore up and down that she couldn't get pregnant. Oh, come on. A woman in her thirties.
All that she wants is another baby. Yeah.
So a woman in her thirties says, oh, I can't possibly get pregnant.
And lo and behold, she got pregnant. Now, even if she were to say that this is true and she would have passed the magic lie detector test, you have no reason to trust someone you've just met, particularly if they're displaying bad decision-making, like sleeping with you on the first date.
That's just Bad decision-making, so you have no reason to trust that person.
So if our friend Jake got a girl pregnant, got a woman pregnant, and he said, well, I didn't use protection because she said she was on birth control.
Well, that's still stupid, even if she doesn't get pregnant, because a condom, of course, can help prevent you from getting certain STDs, right? So...

[1:33:31] I guess it's really just a matter of naivety. I mean, you would have a little bit more feeling for the guy if she lied, but he's still responsible.
You know, if she lied to him, you'd have a little bit more empathy towards him.

[1:33:52] Well, I wouldn't.

[1:33:53] No.

[1:33:54] Hang on. Sorry.

[1:33:54] If you're walking into a situation like that.

[1:33:57] I wouldn't have. Hang on. Just one brief second, then I'll shut up. Yep.
So I wouldn't have much sympathy for Jake if Jake had continually lied to these women and said he was interested in a relationship.
Then it would just be like, well, live by the lie, die by the lie. But sorry, go ahead.

[1:34:11] I was going to say, no, that's very true, because he's setting himself up by by lying in the first place.
But but if I let me just say that if he's if he's lying, then he's just a douchebag. That's all he is.
But if you're just walking into it more innocent, you just think you're trying to pick somebody up for whatever reason, you should know that you can get STDs.
You should know that you're going in unprotected.

[1:34:41] Sorry, man, your audio is terrible. I can't hear you very well.
Can you get closer to your router or anything? I really can't hear you very well.

[1:34:49] Is this better?

[1:34:50] Yes, go ahead.

[1:34:51] At all?

[1:34:53] Yeah, go ahead.

[1:34:55] You should know that if you're walking into the situation, you could get an STD, you could get a pregnant if you're not protected.
You even should know, like in the earlier conversation, it's rolling the dice.
That's what's happening.
If you relatively innocently sleep with them and then they're stalking you, that's a possibility and that can happen.
So it's a matter of naivety. That's really what it is. And, you know, in the situation I have, I have friends of mine who go out and have one night stands.
I'll admit that. And a lot of them don't know that if the girl doesn't remember what happened the night before, they could charge them for rape.
That's and they don't even know it. And just because they don't know it doesn't mean that they're sorry.

[1:35:50] You haven't told your friends.

[1:35:53] Oh, I've told them.

[1:35:54] Oh, so they know it.

[1:35:55] It's like.

[1:35:56] They don't know it.

[1:35:57] They know it, but, but they still don't believe it. It's kind of like.

[1:36:02] Hang on, hang on, hang on. Don't, don't, don't jerk me around like a fishhook here. Right.
They know it, but they don't believe it. I don't care. They know it. They know it.

[1:36:10] Yes. Right.

Ignoring the harsh realities of certain situations

[1:36:11] So I have no sympathy for somebody who knows.

[1:36:13] You're right. Very good point. They know it. They know it. They know it, but they don't want to believe it or subconsciously they're, they're ignoring it or whatever, whatever it is, whatever the reason is.
Are you trying to are you trying to make a parallel between the the woman walking in a bad neighborhood or dressing um provocatively is that only in the in the perspective it's a dice roll you know um it's you know you can you could be running around in the rain without getting wet for quite a long time and then you you get caught eventually and your douchebag moves or whatever Whatever you're doing is going to get you screwed.

[1:36:55] Well, and there's also a situation.

[1:36:58] Sorry.

[1:36:59] Let me just go briefly here. There's also a situation where the man sleeps with a woman, uses a condom.
The condom works, but she still gets pregnant. And it's called sperm jacking, right?
Which is he takes the condom.
He throws it in the garbage in the bathroom. the woman takes the condom out of the garbage, scoops out the sperm, inserts it into her vagina, and gets pregnant.
Now, how much sympathy do I have for a man where this happens?
I mean, I guess part of me is sympathetic there's a person suffering in pain and so on, but the other part of me is like, dude, you're rolling the dice.
Like, eventually you're going to roll a one.

[1:37:47] How many men now enter into their first first relationship with a woman without any knowledge and they're adults because there's so few men there's so few men in their 20s and 30s having sex and there's so few and in the open dating market like the hookup kind of dating market it's only a handful of guys that are actually getting with women how many of these other men are not being taught any of this, well i mean that's the question without an answer.

[1:38:14] But i mean with the internet a lack of knowledge has become virtually inexcusable.
You just look up dangers of one-night stands, and there's going to be a million articles that are going to tell you in five minutes the dangers of one-night stands.
One of the great things about the internet is I didn't know is no longer a valid excuse for just about everyone.

[1:38:43] So the question sort of I started with, and I really, really, really appreciate this conversation. It's very helpful to me.
I hope it's helpful to others as well.
How much sympathy do we have to people who do unwise things, to people who roll the dice?
How much sympathy do we have? Like if some guy gets shot out of nowhere, some drive-by accidental thing, they're doing everything right, it's a good neighborhood or whatever, they just get shot, oh, bottomless, endless sympathy. sympathy.
How much sympathy do we have with someone who ends up with a bullet in them because they were playing Russian roulette?

[1:39:20] And unwise decisions to me, again, this is where I'm coming from.
I'm not saying this is so logistically proven.
Unwise decisions to me are playing Russian roulette.
You drive your motorcycle on ice, on slippery ice, you're gonna crash sooner or later you keep having one night stands bad things are gonna happen you just you just it's russian roulette and that to me is the big question and and women who go to i mean i was it's probably apocryphal but i was reading this post from a woman who said, yeah i'm at a bar with a guy who claims to be a millionaire because of something called dogecoin so I take him home, I tie him to my bed and I force him to ejaculate inside me I had the baby he lost it all, he's broke I'm now a single mom.

[1:40:16] Oh, there's a picture of a woman's face over a man's shoulder, looking sad.
And the caption is, when he's rich, but pulls out every time.
Again, this is all very cold and caustic and all of that.
But how much sympathy do we have to people who are playing Russian roulette?
If a woman keeps going to strange men's apartments to have sex, sooner or later, she's going to just roll one.
And it is a kind of Russian roulette.
Now, this doesn't mean, of course, just to be clear, whoever assaults a woman is a heinous criminal and should go to jail. Absolutely.
But philosophy is all about prevention, not cure.
And I think this flip, like when I was having this debate with this woman and I said that the majority of women know they're rapists, she says, are you blaming the victim? him.
Now, saying to women, here's the steps you can take to avoid being sexually assaulted.
Here, like, you know, if there's a rapist around, don't walk alone, or don't get drunk and go to strange men's apartments, and so on, right?
Now, what happens is, when you're talking about prevention, women think that you're criticizing those who were sexually assaulted.

[1:41:37] And it's interesting because as you dial up the responsibility, you dial up the capacity to prevent things.
I mean, if you don't want to get shot, don't play Russian roulette.
I mean, that's one way to certainly help, right?
So as you dial up the responsibility of prevention, women, I think, translate that into your mind as condemning everybody that this happened to.
If I say, here's how to prevent gaining weight, let's say I was a nutritionist or something, I say, here's how to prevent gaining weight, and then I think a lot of women would say, so you're blaming fat people.
Because in saying, here's how to prevent weight gain, you're blaming people who have gotten overweight.
Or if I say, here's how to prevent sexual assault, I think a lot of women experience that as they don't look at the prevention, they look at the cure, right? And it can't be cured, right?
So if I say, here's how to avoid sexual assault, I think for women, it's translated into a blanket condemnation of everyone who was sexually assaulted.
I'm not sure why that happens.
I'm not sure why that happens, but it does. Like if I say to men, here's how to avoid getting into a fistfight.

[1:42:53] I'm not condemning everyone who's ever been in a fistfight. And I guess it's almost like if I say, don't smoke because it's bad for you, then I'm condemning all smokers.
And that flip from prevention, which is to me what philosophy does, it's about prevention.

The Flip: Prevention vs Victim-Blaming

[1:43:11] I mean, if you haven't prevented an assault, then it's not the job of the philosopher anymore.
It's the job of the police or forensics or the court or whatever it is to deal with that.
But philosophy is about prevention and when i talk about prevention something which i don't quite follow flips in women's heads which is not to say that there's anything wrong with their perspective i'm just saying this is what i've noticed but something flips in women's head when i say look here's how you can prevent assault and they say oh you're blaming the victim you're saying every victim is responsible for being assaulted and that's a wild thing i think sorry no go ahead can.

[1:43:48] I respond to can i respond to what you're saying um i think women Women, when they're put, not all, obviously not all women, but I think a lot of women when they're put in an untenable situation, something like, you know, they got accidentally pregnant or something like that.
I think they retreat into this, I should be under the care of other people.
They retreat into like this adolescent slash childhood attitude.
They kind of, which has been exasperated by, you know, the culture trying to infantilize women.
And I think that at that point, they're in a different space.
I think they're in a different mind space. I think they are looking to be taken care of when the world falls apart.
And I think most men who've lived long enough or have achieved anything know when the world falls apart or their world falls apart, they have to step up and deal with it or they have to get prepared to keep getting punched in the face, metaphorically.
I think it's a biological thing with women. I think we're just different men and women in that aspect.

[1:44:45] Hmm. Okay. Yeah.
So, when I say, here's how to prevent bad things from happening, women flip to how dare you condemn people to whom bad things have happened? Ah, yeah.

[1:45:00] Because they're looking at society like a parent.
They're looking at everyone around them as a parent. I think they retreat to this child's spot that men who have been raised to be adults don't necessarily retreat there.
There right i mean it's like it's the nature of like if you're i mean i'm divorced but you know when shit hit the fan my wife would turn to me or her mother would turn to me you know it's just kind of you know they act like okay they what uh sorry.

[1:45:27] What shit and what fan are you talking about here i don't really i want to make.

[1:45:31] Sure i'm sorry like it's something in there it's not something in their life if something in their life or something in our business or something in our personal life fell apart they turn to the man they turn to me they turn to their father you know their husband their father and i think that women have that automatic response so well sorry if.

[1:45:47] I understand this correctly this is like the schroten just feminist which is i'm strong and independent until something bad happens and then i'm a helpless victim of circumstances.

[1:45:58] I'm equal to a man i'm responsible.

[1:46:01] I i should have absolutely equal moral judgments to a man but then if you say well if a man did this i judge him negatively well you you can't do that because i'm a victim right so they sort of shrodinger's feminist that flips from empowerment to victimhood on on a dime but.

[1:46:15] I think it but i think it's i don't i don't think men and women are equal in that boat i think women naturally turn to whoever's around them i think it's more i think it's more by a lot of women usually, no so not not whoever's.

[1:46:31] Around them but some a competent male right.

The Patriarchal Nature of Society

[1:46:33] Yeah authority figure i mean I mean, nobody wants to act like it.
I mean, they try to deny it. You know, feminism worked very hard to try to act like it doesn't exist. But we are a patriarchal species.
I don't even know if it's just culture.

[1:46:46] Well, yeah, but now we're bringing in the P word, and I'm not sure exactly what that means. Women should have authority.

[1:46:54] We were talking.

[1:46:56] In my view, women should absolutely have authority and do have authority when children are little.

[1:47:03] But we were talking before that the woman before was talking and we were talking about the walking on campus and, you know, the security guards or the the campus, you know, failed them or the police.
So, you know, we talked about the fathers or brothers or uncles protecting women.
I think that is inherent in our species.
So when you say this is how to prevent it, once someone's already become a victim of it, or the woman has become a victim of it, I think she's in that space of, I am now surrendered to it. I need protection.
How could you, as the authority figure, poke at me? I'm already here. No.

[1:47:42] But I don't. This is the male thing. I don't know how to protect people without holding them responsible.

[1:47:50] You can't.

[1:47:51] Is there any way to do that? I mean, other than babies and toddlers, how can you protect people without saying they have some responsibility?

[1:48:00] But but that's the thing is when yeah well if women the difference is when the culture right now is broken in that capacity we don't treat women as a whole like adults and then we hide that you know we we shelter them from some dangers we don't hold them to high enough standards we don't hold men to high enough standards either and young men and now we're like in these after the facts, attitudes, and all the childishness of both men and women come out. And I think that's just one of the ways.

[1:48:31] Yeah, if we can't hold people responsible for bad decisions because those people who've already made bad decisions will feel bad, i don't know how we function because.

[1:48:44] I mean men's goal men's.

[1:48:46] Goal is to protect those around us to provide and protect that's kind of how we're wired is to protect and there's no way.

[1:48:53] To protect and without and we're not responsibility and we're not functioning well right i mean we've been, you know marxism has made women believe that men are the enemy and that they're just same as men and every step of the way culture and media has pushed that and now we have this weird thing right how many i'm single i've talked to so many women who like they're going into dangerous situations and they don't want to remove themselves from it they think it's okay they don't even want to see it i can't date that girl or women who.

[1:49:25] And this happens with men too sometimes but women who say if you say don't go into this dangerous situation they say you're so controlling you're just controlling you're a bully right.

[1:49:34] Yeah i had i dated a woman that i wanted she was her father lived somewhere you know thousand miles away we were going just started going out and she never carried any money she never carried any cash and she gave me this whole big rigmarole i'm like just put a hundred dollars in your wallet she's like what i'm like because i'm the guy who's gonna have to come and drive an hour and a half and pick your butt up if you can't deal with something because you don't have any money it's a minor thing it's not that big of a deal but it it turned into something stupid and then i there was another woman i talked to who had been assaulted in dc when she lived there and she had a brain injury and she was telling me as i'm trying to get to know her a little bit that she was going to move back to live by herself in the same city that she had been you know attacked in i mean i stopped talking to her because it was and i.

[1:50:23] Think sorry it's interrupt but i think this is women feel like it's almost a point of pride, How dare society expect me to limit my choices? I'm supposed to be strong, independent, and free.
It is an insult to my human rights to ask me to self-restrain my behavior in the face of danger because I should be safe everywhere.
And this is not how men, again, I can't speak for all men, but I've never talked to a man who would have that perspective that we have to self-limit our behavior.
We have to self-limit our behavior for fear of a coercive blowback.
So that to me is not a loss of freedom.
It is protection for men to self-limit our behavior because that means we're not going to get beaten up. Sorry, go ahead.

[1:51:06] But the parents are teaching me like women are in their 30s and 40s who behave like that right now.
They were taught that by their mothers and fathers. They were not checked on that.
It's not just, you know, I think they were I think they were taught that by society in general. I mean, not just their parents.
Society tells them at this point, it's you go, girl, you know, you're strong and you're independent.
You could deal with whatever you want to deal with.
They've separated men out from women, period. Well.

[1:51:37] And the women have become progressively less mentally healthy, more anxious, more fearful.
We've seen this female happiness is plunged every decade since feminism came around.
But this sense of fear and anxiety has, I think, become fairly all pervasive, particularly among older women, right?
So women past 40, they're the highest uses of anti-anxiety and anti-depressants, particularly white women.
And I think this is because they've sailed past 40, which means the odds of getting a dedicated male protector have gone down because male protectors are fundamentally there for the children.
And if they can't have children, their odds of getting a male protector is going down. And so I think that their anxiety and sense of generalized fear goes up. Yeah.

[1:52:26] Yeah, makes sense. I think right, I think now that, well, I'm only speaking from an American point of view, but I think now where you live dictates how safe you are more so than it had in the, you know, the mid 80s to the early 2000s.

[1:52:43] Yeah, that was a demographic change for sure.
All right, if there's anyone who has been yearning Bernie to say something who hasn't, now's the time.

[1:52:56] You know, the other part is, I mean, as much as it's a separation of male and female, I mean, how many of these cities won't prosecute actual criminals and they don't even hold them, they don't even require bail.
But the people who protect themselves, and I think you've touched on some of this before, not in this conversation, but the people who protect themselves are getting prosecuted and the people that are assaulting are not being prosecuted.
And i moved to a state where everyone has a gun on them in part i'm not the only reason but that's part of the reason i moved here because that's it's just in the crime is so low because people are mostly the same ethnicity and the same religion and they also have they're also armed unlike these places that are undoing all that and also promoting violence like i would think I think it's appropriate for women to be more afraid in some of these urban areas.

Cross-wiring: Criminals equated to children in women's minds

[1:54:16] Side if it doesn't fit your experience. But I think this does this kind of cross-wiring.
Whenever you talk about criminals as vulnerable and excluded and poor and victimized and so on, I think it kind of wires, there's a kind of cross-wiring where the criminals then get equated to children in women's minds.
And then it's sort of emotionally, it's like, well, you wouldn't throw a child in jail, would you?
But if you treat criminals as if they don't have agency, don't have responsibility can't choose better if you treat criminals as children that they are simply a product of their circumstances because childhood children in general are largely a product of their circumstances because they can't choose their circumstances and can't change those circumstances sorry go ahead is.

[1:54:59] That more accentuated now because there's so many women in their 30s and 40s who aren't married because i was thinking about this like, It's normal for a husband to have checked his wife on taking the kid somewhere that he doesn't think is a good idea.
That would be a normal course of action in any day and age. And now there's so many women that aren't married who don't have a man who would do that.
Does that accentuate this seeing everybody, including criminals?

[1:55:27] Well, the maternal instincts go somewhere. And if the maternal instincts aren't flowing towards your own children, they're going to flow somewhere.
And that's easy to manipulate from a political standpoint, right?
So a man's sense of adventure has got to go somewhere.
And men who don't have genuine adventures anymore, often because they're raised by hyper-fearful single moms, but for other reasons as well, general fear of neighborhoods and so on, sort of Putnam effect.
But men are going to have to have a sense of adventure.
And if they can't get it from the real world, they're going to get it from video games and so on. Men like to have a sense of sexual conquest if they can't get it from, or shy away from getting it in the real world, they'll get it through pornography and things like that.

[1:56:11] And it's the same thing with the paternal impulse. The maternal impulse goes somewhere.
And I think this portrayal of criminals as poor, misunderstood victims of circumstance, I think, wires into women's sympathy for children.
Children and then it's hard for women to say yeah put him in jail and you know lock him up throw away the key kind of thing even though it's it's very clear that i mean you can see this in el salvador right the the crime rates have dropped over 70 or murder rates have dropped over 70 el salvador has gone from one of the most dangerous countries in the western hemisphere to safer than america and it's done that in in like a couple of years and the guy just got a massive re-election mandate for the next five years and so on so i mean it's very clear i mean everybody knows exactly how to deal with crime.
You just lock up the criminals and your society becomes a paradise.

[1:57:02] It's not just men, not just women, but I think it's a little bit more women who are driving that, coddling the criminal stuff.

[1:57:08] My point before was, I think women have always wanted to coddle the criminals, but their husbands were the ones who checked them in their house.
And I think men were more apt to be more protective if they were married with children.
Like, I don't know if women have changed that much. This is just the ability for their opinion to go unchecked by, you know, the person who's been raised to be a protector. No.

[1:57:28] But you have to, sorry, but you can't just say women, because if you don't differentiate between single women and married women, you're not saying much of substance, if you don't mind me saying so. though, because statistically, marriage women are much more conservative and single women are much more pro-state, right?
I mean, the old argument being that marriage women's husbands get there. Sorry, go ahead.

[1:57:49] I meant single women. I mean, because there's so many more single women, are we in this position now?
Because women would have that point of view, but that opinion would never leave their house because their husband would be like, no, no, no, this is the reason, this is the problem.

[1:58:02] No, no, no. Listen, come on. And women don't just do or say what their husbands do or say.
For women, once they've got a husband and kids, then they're dependent upon their husband's income, so they tend to be more conservative.

Conservative married women vs. pro-state single women

[1:58:14] And conservatism comes with being tough on crime, whereas single women don't.
So whereas single women are married to the state and rely on the state for their protectors.
So for married women, the expansion of the state comes at the expense of their family security and income, whereas for single women, they want to be hired by the government and they want all the protection of the government.
They want pensions and health care and so on.
So they just vote for more and more government, and that tends to come with soft-on-crime.

[1:58:41] Okay, that makes sense. So you also think that women who have children are tougher on crime?

[1:58:48] I think they do. I think, or even if the women who have children, who are married with children, even if they are conservative for reasons of taxation and government size and family income, they then inadvertently vote for tough-on-crime policies, because conservatives tend to be more tough on crime. Because, I mean, the big difference between...
Liberal and conservative is liberals believe that we're a product of our environment, whereas conservatives believe that we are a product of our choices.
And so, of course, if we're a product of our environment, then we shouldn't be blamed for what we do.
Whereas if we're a product of our choices, because conservatives tend to be focused on free will, they're less materialistic, less atheist, more religious, more God gives us free will.
And so liberals don't really believe in evil.
I mean, they do believe in evil when it comes to their political opponents, but, you know, in sort of their own circle, they don't believe in evil, and therefore, you should have sympathy.
Like, you should never blame somebody for being born in Borneo, or whatever it is now.
You shouldn't ever blame somebody for being born where they're born, or being tall or short, or blue-eyed or brown-eyed, color of the skin.
You never blame anyone for that.
It's not their choice. It's just circumstances and environment and so on, genetics.

[2:00:01] So, this is why conservatives tend to be tougher on crime, because they accept that there's There's free will, and people choose badly.
There's evil, and it needs to be restrained from society.
They restrain their sympathy by ascribing free will to the mechanics of the mind, whereas if you don't believe in the soul, you don't believe in God, then it's much easier to have a materialistic dominoes falling view, and therefore to punish people for things outside of their control, like the circumstances, born poor, bad family, or whatever.
To blame people for circumstances outside of their control tends to be, I mean, that would be quite immoral, right? So, or certainly unjust.
So it may be a package deal where women vote conservative for the sake of family income, but one of the consequences of that, or you could say that women who are religious both want to get married, want to have children, right?
Go forth and multiply, be fruitful, is the commandment of the Lord.
So it could be the case that women who have children, religious views it's a package thing where they want to get married they want to have kids and they also accept free will and that criminals are responsible for what they do and therefore punishment is just all right any other last thoughts tips issues sorry go ahead.

The meme of women not taking responsibility

[2:01:21] There is a little bit of a meme about women taking responsibility responsibility.

[2:01:25] Go ahead.

[2:01:28] Yeah, the meme is that women do not take responsibility. At least most women do not.
I think that it's very exceptional for women to take responsibility.

[2:01:38] I think that's painting with too broad a brush, but that's not much of an argument.
So on either of a side, whether women do or don't take responsibility, I think that we have evolved to divide our labor to some degree.
And women are better at protecting protecting children, and men are better at protecting cultures and families.
And both are essential, of course, for our flourishing and survival as a species.
All right, any other last thoughts, questions, challenges, issues, problems? Because I've done, what did I do?
I did a show this morning that I did an hour and a quarter reading of Peaceful Parenting. Now I've done two hours here, so I should probably cool my brain for a little bit.
But if there's anything anybody wants to add at the end, oh, and of course, oh, but let me not forget, let me not forget my massive thanks Thanks and appreciation for you guys as supporters supporting the show.
If you'd like a little extra tip, you can, of course, go to slash donate to help out the show.
If you're listening to this later, slash donate to help out the show.
You can go to slash freedomain if you want to join this great community or there's a great community at All right.
Thanks, everyone. Gosh, what a pleasure it was to chat with you guys this afternoon.
Always, always a privilege.
And I really, really appreciate everybody's amazing feedback.
I think we did some just fantastic work here. so all right take care everyone lots of love bye.

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