0:00 - Introduction to Isolation and Resentment
10:24 - Childhood Memories and Early Relationships
15:36 - Daycare and Family Dynamics
22:43 - Exploring Teenage Years and Relationships
26:53 - Family Perspectives on Dating and Social Life
30:22 - College Experience and Relationships
31:45 - Transitioning to Adulthood and Emotional Struggles
35:25 - Life at Home and Personal Reflections
58:21 - Turning Point: A New Beginning
1:04:33 - The Disastrous First Date and Self-Realization
1:08:57 - A New Beginning
1:10:54 - The Job Struggle
1:17:06 - Striving for Success
1:26:14 - Venturing into Entrepreneurship
1:32:46 - Lessons in Business
1:35:15 - Unpacking Anger and Despair
1:41:21 - Parental Influence
1:42:47 - The Value Dilemma
1:45:39 - Stop Taking Shortcuts
1:47:35 - The Importance of Hard Work
2:04:04 - Time to Get to Work
In this episode, I have a deep conversation with a caller who opens up about feeling disconnected and isolated, longing for meaningful connections. Recounting a childhood filled with time spent in daycare and a sense of neglect from indifferent parents, the caller shares struggles with social interactions, including dealing with questionable friends in a run-down school environment. Despite efforts to engage in activities like making videos, the caller experienced isolation as peers distanced themselves, leading to a profound lack of genuine relationships and heavy emotional burden.
As the caller reflects on teenage years, they candidly share challenges with forming emotional bonds and navigating dating while finding solace in video games and pornography kept secret from parents. Despite limited dating experiences, a significant long-distance relationship during senior year stands out. Transitioning to college life, the caller admits to lacking motivation, eventually graduating amidst difficulties in forming connections. Our conversation delves into personal insights, culminating in a raw discussion on feelings of depression and isolation, shedding light on deep-seated struggles.
Shifting gears, I engage with another caller on family dynamics and past experiences influencing present decisions and relationships. We explore how childhood impacts behaviors and attitudes towards self and others, tracing the journey from upbringing to forging a path towards career and personal growth amidst communication hurdles within the family unit. Delving into complexities of family dynamics and the quest for self-discovery and independence, we unravel layers of emotional depth and resilience in facing challenging dynamics.
In another segment, a caller shares experiences with dating, navigating unsuccessful encounters and reflections on needed life changes. Expressing a longstanding connection to the show since its YouTube days, the caller seeks advice, shedding light on personal growth amidst therapist recommendations and a transformative journey. From grappling with job challenges to entrepreneurship ventures and dwindling earnings, the caller's path unfolds with uncertainties and learning curves, exemplifying the intricate dance of professional evolution.
The episode delves into the caller's work struggles, interactions with women, and reflections on childhood experiences of parental neglect, shaping perspectives on forming relationships. With feedback on the significance of mutual exchange in conversations and navigating dating landscapes, we unpack the caller's journey of self-discovery and forming connections with a renewed focus on reciprocity and value in relationships. These insights pave the way for self-reflection and growth in interpersonal dynamics, underscoring the importance of empathy and mutual benefit.
As the conversation progresses, we delve into the essence of providing value in dating and entrepreneurship, stressing the importance of authenticity and differentiation in market spaces. Emphasizing the need for dedicated work ethic, learning from experienced mentors, and embracing personal growth through mentorship opportunities, we explore the transformative power of shifting focus from self to benefiting others. Encouraging the caller to seize opportunities in real estate, seek mentorship, and prioritize self-improvement, the episode resonates with a message of empowerment and accountability in shaping one's destiny.
[0:00] Hey, Stef. I've sent a few requests to speak to you before this one, but in retrospect, I understand that the detachment and dissociation I represented in those would have turned anyone off if they were even seen. I'm a 28-year-old white man, and I have no network of friends and no personal relationships beyond the dissociated persona necessary for business. I have no one to share thoughts with, and I find myself resenting others. The longer I associate with someone, the more distance will come between us. Frankly, I wish that I had some adverse experience in childhood to pull from, as opposed to the gelatinous, congealed mass of directionless wasted time my childhood was. Parents that were well off enough to buy things and still complain about money.
[0:40] I never learned negotiation or had any wisdom imparted onto me by them or any other adult figures in my life. I sought out mentors, teachers, and professors, but like with my parents, nobody seemed to be interested. My blind-taught social survival allowed me to avoid being the subject of overt ridicule, but I believe that this was at the expense of my dignity and self-worth, i.e. clown behavior. This behavior, I found, stems from a strategy I implemented to achieve recognition from my parents. I want my desires for companionship and interest made, but 30 years of failing has led me to feeling resentment towards those who reject me, or rather, don't show interest in me. My neurotic, high-strung behavior, my history, and my lack of wisdom and experience might contribute to this, but entering into conversations, I also have to imagine that below-the-surface resentment shows in pretty tangible and off-putting ways. This negative feedback loop has continued on and thusly for as long as I can remember. I don't want to die, but in my moments alone, I feel like I do. My conception is not that such a thing would be helpful, and I've been working with self-knowledge, sought professional help, and practically speaking, I'm farther away from the attachments that have harmed me. And yet, sometimes I'll go back to my parents, or watch porn, or drive, walk around aimlessly for hours. Correction, I don't really watch porn. I don't. I use my imagination, but it doesn't matter.
[2:03] Simply out of a need for stimulation, which will end up in entering another negative feedback loop. Dying, as it were, represents escaping from an inescapable situation, not because of an afterlife, but because the only feedback I'm receiving from my failures is, I don't want to feel like this anymore. more. I have to imagine this too radiates off of me and repels others. My desire is to get feedback from the king of feedback. I will be more than infinitely grateful for your time and I wish you the best.
[2:31] I appreciate that. A very frank and honest email. So let's start in the origin story. Tell me about your childhood.
[2:41] Start from the beginning, right? Now I've listened to a few call-in shows, but let's just start from the beginning. I was born to two parents that are still married to this day. I'm a middle child. My brother is two years older than me and my sister is two years younger than me. And we originally, my mom has been a software developer slash computer person. I'll try to keep it vague for as long as she's had a career. And my dad has done various odd jobs since. sense she's she's been sorry what do you mean odd jobs.
[3:25] I don't know what that means.
[3:26] Right uh so for that's that's actually part of the the progression of the story when he when he had us he was doing stuff with garage doors he was like a manager for a garage door trade company they did garage doors and insulation and stuff like that okay so he's the manager.
[3:43] Of a company that's more than an odd job right you mean he's just been like a jack of all trades he's moved around.
[3:48] Well when i say i mean it really has been odd jobs because he was like say like a regional manager but then he went to a different company to do fireplaces and then he started doing stuff with like mattresses he started selling mattresses the family had a laundry business so more i guess more jack of all trades he's had a little bit of dabbling in Yeah.
[4:13] Odd jobs usually means like you're repairing screen doors and stuff at people's houses.
[4:18] Like it's kind of low rent or whatever.
[4:19] But if he's managing stuff, he's just, you know, got a restless kind of career, maybe never quite found his niche and all of that. So compared to your mom, who I guess been plodding along in the software field forever and on, so it's a little different for your dad. But it's not odd jobs like he's, I don't know, some sort of half-retarded guy who can only shovel sidewalks or something.
[4:41] No, not quite. And most of his efforts were spent in, you know, he's the kind of guy who, when he has a house, he's like, build the deck. Oh, if we don't have a deck to build, build a screen porch. If you don't build the screen porch, do the yard. If you don't have the, you know, he's always looking for something to do with whatever he's up to.
[5:03] So why, sorry, I mean, why would he want to do all that work? He's got three kids, right?
[5:10] That's a question I haven't gotten answered because the worst part, well, worst part for me, my experience, he would wrangle us into all of these random odd jobs. You know, our summers were spent working on decks and doing the yard, but not even for other people. He was like, hey, I want to build a deck for the house. So we built the deck.
[5:34] Well, and I assume that your kids weren't like asked, do you want to spend your summer? is building decks because you'd have been like no in fact i really don't nope.
[5:44] That's a very common through line throughout the whole childhood spoilers um we weren't asked much of anything about anything.
[5:51] I could i'm sorry could you just back off the mic a little bit you're buzzing you're just a little too close to the mic no no problem okay so he was like like what what's the what's the drive behind this workaholism and and not asking kids what they want to do it's it's It's almost like bullying, like I'm going to do this stuff and your kids are going to get dragged along and if you have any problems with it, I'm going to call you lazy. I don't know, like I'm just guessing.
[6:18] It was never overt calling us lazy, but there was a lot of ambivalence and apathy he shared, and my mom likewise shared, towards all of our states. In hindsight, I can't recall a single time.
[6:35] Your states?
[6:36] My states, yeah.
[6:38] What does your states mean?
[6:41] Well, when I was happy, my mom didn't seem to care. She never asked me what was up. When I was down, she never really seemed to care.
[6:46] Oh, you still didn't mind. like your your my state of mind my states emotional okay now i got it so that they there was an ambivalence about your emotional states so i'm sure you're going to help me know what that means but sorry go ahead well.
[7:01] It really one of the things i mentioned in the email specifically was the gelatinous mess of like something um the childhood.
[7:09] Yeah just so you know the gelatinous mess of something explains how much to an outsider because this is probably one of the challenges that you have that you have a story of your life and you're trying to communicate it to other people and you think a gelatinous mess of whatever explains anything just as you know you don't feel the need you put the word state in with that emotional state or or anything like that so uh you know just pretend i'm i'm i speak a foreign language and i've just emerged from the matrix and i'm trying to understand your life and assume that i know nothing uh so just you know don't don't rush, don't do shorthand or anything like that. Just, you know, again, explain it to me like I'm five.
[7:49] Right. And that is a problem. That's one of the things I'm coming to you for is that.
[7:54] Well, people rush and then they wonder why people aren't listening.
[7:59] Right.
[8:00] You're like, well, I don't want to impose, so I'm going to rush through the story to the point where nobody can follow anything and then they're like, oh, I guess people just don't listen to me. And it's like, and then it gets worse, right?
[8:09] Right. So, let me pull back a little bit. So when it comes to my dad, there was a lot of... We were never asked. We weren't asked for anything. We went to public school, and eventually we started winding up in daycare for summers. They were never – Sorry.
[8:32] Daycare or summer camp?
[8:35] Both. In elementary school, we were in public school, public school the whole time. During the summers, we were put into either a summer camp. There was one summer camp, but most of it was spent in daycare.
[8:50] Sorry, so daycare, I'm trying to sort of, oh, so daycare, like you would be like six, seven, eight, nine, ten years old or whatever, and you'd be in a daycare for the summer?
[9:01] Yep.
[9:01] Okay. Yep. And all three of you were put in daycare for the summer?
[9:06] Yes, for multiple, at least two.
[9:08] Holy crap, did your parents ever not want to spend time with you?
[9:12] Yes.
[9:13] No, I mean, three kids in daycare, right? Mm-hmm. I mean, do you know how much that costs?
[9:19] It costs a lot.
[9:21] Thousands of dollars a month, right? It could be, right?
[9:24] They also bought a boat, though.
[9:27] Well, so then why did your mother stay home at any point when your kids were younger?
[9:35] I have some videos and pictures from childhood. I distinctly have seen pictures of that. I think that's like maybe when we were like two or three, she did. but as far as i can tell across your whole life sorry.
[9:47] You mean from birth i mean were you breastfed you know if she stayed home with you guys when you were very big.
[9:53] Um no i don't i think she did for the maternity leave for whatever company she was at but so like as far back as i can remember she months.
[10:04] Kind of thing maybe.
[10:04] Yeah if it was if there was any time she was it's before i can remember. My entire life, she's never really stayed home like that.
[10:13] Okay. Got it.
[10:20] Yeah.
[10:25] I don't want to interrupt. I mean, I can prompt you back to where you were, but I don't want to interrupt if you're...
[10:30] No, no. I'm just dealing with the feedback you just gave me about rushing too much. Um.
[10:41] Somewhere in the middle is fine. You know, somewhere between, you know, a mass of compression and 10 second pauses is fine.
[10:48] Then I'll just, I'll just get back to, I'll just get back to the childhood. Yes. Daycare. We'll, we'll go back to daycare. Um, starting from childhood, we were in elementary school. Um, and we, we were before daycare, we had an intergenerational family household with my grandmother and my cousins. So from about birth until the third grade in America, like five, six, seven, we would go to my grandmother's house. But she was Spanish, and she didn't really care too much about raising us. She just cared about feeding us, eat, eat, eat, eat, eat. But that was basically daycare. So my parents left us there until like 6 or 7 p.m., and they would come pick us up, and then we would go back home, sleep, wake up, go to school, and that was it until we moved. When we moved, we went to daycare instead. My parents, after a year or so of daycare— Sorry.
[11:53] How old were you when you moved?
[11:55] Third grade, at the end of third grade. I was in place A. I'm in place A was where I was for the beginning until third grade from fourth to sixth. I was in place B and then I moved back to place A for the rest of my time. So so now in place B, no family, no connections, just my mom got a new job. And so my dad was this is where he got his new job at a fireplace company. But the time was spent in daycare. And after a year or so, the daycare people, of course, were even worse than you might think. They would spell our names wrong. They would intentionally say our names wrong. And just they weren't very kind people at that daycare. And, of course, my mom and dad, being empiricists, actually saw the daycare was going poorly and then pulled us out. I mean, congratulations, I guess.
[12:53] How long were you in the daycare for?
[12:55] A year and at least a year I was thinking probably about a year and a half because, what happened after that is my dad decided to quit whatever job he was doing and take on a part time job so he could be at home, But before that happened, there was like a daycare after school program at school. And so they just left us there instead until that happened. And then he was able to stay home. And after that, there was a babysitter.
[13:28] So you're like nine or so when your dad comes home?
[13:30] Yes.
[13:30] Nine or ten? Okay, got it.
[13:32] Yes. And then we moved back to place A where we started from. And it's about this time where my parents basically just gave up on daycare and stuff because I'm in middle school by this point. My brother's a year ahead of me, and my sister is behind me. And they just let us come home and just stay at home. And they're not home yet. Neither of them are home yet because they're both working again. And so from seventh grade until I graduate high school, my parents, I'll come home. I'll be home for a few hours alone. My parents will come home. I'll come to the door, say hello, and then go watch TV. And then maybe they'd go bowling or something or do something else. But from seventh grade onward, my time was just spent going downstairs into the basement and playing video games or talking on the computer. And then I went to college. So that's basic gist of it.
[14:26] Okay, so that's your home life. What about school life?
[14:30] Well, school life is interesting because I don't really have any experiences before third grade. Nothing to write home about, no bullying, no peer mayhem at school. I was kind of a loner. And then we moved to a new cul-de-sac. So it's like a subdivision, so there's kids there, and we go to school with those kids. but my parents didn't really like supervise or have any care about the kids we were associating with so there were some not so not so good folks among those kids it was a pretty run-down school it was pretty dangerous in hindsight because um my brother got beat up or got bullied a bunch, and after that they i think that was the year that we left so he got beat up and bullied and then they left. Sorry, they left.
[15:29] What does that mean?
[15:30] My parents decided to move back.
[15:32] How did they leave, though? Did they leave you behind, or did you all go?
[15:37] We all moved at once.
[15:38] Okay, so we left, not they left.
[15:41] I'm sorry.
[15:42] No, it's confusing. I'm like, okay, sorry, go ahead.
[15:45] I will keep it. I will. Okay. Now back in place A, middle school. I there's uh, there's an event that goes on at school where you like do class elections you know student class president vice president and all that stuff um as a kind of creative i would one of my hobbies at the time was like making little animations and videos and stuff and so there were like speeches for this uh event or for this uh election i guess to call it and i made a video and since i was in like a middle grade there was people below me and people above me i made this video and i was a talk of the town i was getting the teachers were everybody was having a good time i got i don't know it was kind of crazy it was like a movie people just like laughed at the video and you know they thought it was funny and i got some friends i guess off of that but the main thing is all my peers stopped talking to me after that you know i didn't get any i didn't get any nonsense sense from anybody i didn't get overtly ridiculed i didn't get like bullied from that point on um i was not untouchable but nobody nobody spoke to me and i didn't speak to anybody in kind i didn't put any effort in myself so sorry so i'm.
[17:06] Trying to figure out so you mostly did video games in the basement you did movies and stuff did you have any and there were some bad kids in the neighborhood and at school but did you have any friends when you were a kid i'm trying to sort of figure out your social.
[17:18] Life not not not not in any kind of traditional sense we'd have somebody over every so often i was in the band program and it was a pretty close group and when i was around others i would be jovial and having a good time but i didn't i didn't have anybody that i could actually confess any feelings to i didn't have any um relationships um, in high school or even.
[17:44] But i mean that's fairly common at that age right i mean especially men right boys we don't have any particularly close emotional relationships uh at that age for the most part i mean maybe some people do but it's pretty rare so right okay so you didn't have any particularly close friends and that's all the way through junior high and high school.
[18:02] Yep all the way through all.
[18:04] The way now what about dating ah.
[18:06] Dating well i didn't have much um Um, interest in dating, uh, cause I was stimulated by video games and at that time, uh, pornography unbeknownst to my parents. Um, there's a story about that. Um, I, I kept the secret. I kept it a secret for, since I was like 12 or 13 and they didn't know about it. And I told them like two months ago or maybe like six months ago now, probably like in January. And there was no shock. There was no, oh, it was just like, oh, okay. You do that. That's interesting. Because I thought that if they told me, I thought that if I didn't keep it secret, they'd blow up on me. But back to the main, back to the question.
[18:47] But you also, I mean, I assume, and I sympathize, of course. I mean, there's this sexual material available to children these days. It's just appalling.
[18:55] Yeah.
[18:55] But, I mean, you knew that this was bleeding your desire to date, right?
[19:00] Absolutely.
[19:01] Okay. So that's kind of a choice you made, which was to view this material rather than to go ask girls out.
[19:09] Yes. And this is specifically, it even manifests as like, back step, back step, I got ahead of myself. So I didn't have any dating prospects. I probably did, but I didn't jump on any of them.
[19:33] You didn't have any dating prospects?
[19:37] I mean, there are probably girls that would have gone out with me, but I didn't see them. So I'm retracting what I mean by that because that's just fake. That doesn't help.
[19:47] What do you mean? I mean, you just have to go and ask girls out, right? I mean, there's no magic. They don't have these numbers of level of attraction written on their foreheads. You just got to, you know, grope your way forward and ask the girls out. You know, you start from the prettiest and you work your way down until there's a girl who'll go out with you.
[20:05] I heard that, but I didn't hear that back then.
[20:09] No, but you didn't ask... you just decided not to ask girls out because you were.
[20:15] Nervous or yes it it was a little bit of that but also the the undercurrent the feeling was i'm fine i don't need that i have my other stimulation like i felt looking back on it my feeling was hey i get my stimulation from the stuff i do at home i don't need that i don't need to go date i don't need that now did you get.
[20:40] Me I mean, did you genuinely believe that? Like, this is great. This is healthy. This is the way to be. This is the thing to do.
[20:47] Absolutely not. Because I did wind up in my senior year a decade ago going out with somebody in the sense that it was an online thing. So she was far away. It was a distance thing.
[20:59] Yeah. I mean, that's nonsense. I mean, that's not a real thing.
[21:02] Except that you're right. It wasn't. But I worked up the money and I got a plane ticket. I got a plane ticket. So we had a date. We had like two weeks together.
[21:15] Sorry, and you were how old?
[21:17] This is 18. I'm 18.
[21:19] Sorry, so you'd graduated high school, is that right?
[21:23] Yes, I met her in my senior year of high school online.
[21:28] And where was she from?
[21:28] She was from the Midwest. So I'm on the East Coast and she was in the Midwest. So it was a substantial distance away.
[21:35] Way okay um so this is just a time waster and to make you feel like you have a relationship and and uh something's happening and it's like the canadian girlfriend it's sort of this this uh, okay so sorry go ahead she you flew her out yeah.
[21:51] Um yeah i flew her out and then a couple months later during september or november probably around thanksgiving she flew me out so and then And a month later, you know, she was a woman and going to college and she broke it off with me. uh in december of my uh june uh my freshman year of college.
[22:14] So how long did you pretend to go out for um.
[22:19] Since one year prior to that so like.
[22:23] Okay so for a year you kind of thought you sort of had a girlfriend and maybe there was a future but it's just a way of avoiding asking girls out who are in the vicinity and okay i get all that yep.
[22:33] And also um people are like Like, there were some reactions when I told people. It was like, oh, that's not real. I didn't believe them. I didn't listen.
[22:44] Oh, sorry. Now, not real. Did they think you were being catfished or it's just like not a real relationship?
[22:49] I think it was more of the second one, not so much the first one.
[22:52] Okay.
[22:53] Yeah.
[22:53] So some girls in the Midwest go into a different college town. And yeah, I mean, you're just treading water and kind of killing time, usually.
[23:03] Yes. and the theme of killing time is kind of persistent here, so.
[23:10] And so that was the only relationship you had in your teens, is that right?
[23:15] Yes, and it was the only relationship.
[23:17] Did you go to dances? Did you go to social gatherings or parties where there were girls or were you just home for the most part?
[23:25] No, because I was in college, but college was mostly just me.
[23:28] No, no, in university. Sorry, when you were in high school.
[23:30] Oh, in high school. In high school, I was around Like I said, the band program, we had tons of events and tons of things to travel. I was around it. I had the opportunity. I was not one for opportunity stuff.
[23:44] So, I mean, were you aware that you were just scared to ask girls out or were you like, tough guy, don't need it? Like, what was your perspective of why you weren't asking? I mean, it's not like the girls at band camp are the toughest people in the world to ask out, right?
[24:01] Well. Every time, even back then, and even now, I talk to people. I get combative. I get nervous. I'm not, ugh, I don't want them.
[24:24] No, no, I mean, this is, I mean, every boy gets nervous asking girls out. I don't know, I mean, of course you do.
[24:31] Oh, right. Right.
[24:32] I mean, it's like saying, you know, I go on a roller coaster and I have trouble napping. It's like, well, yeah, I mean, of course you got to nap on a roller coaster. So I don't understand, like, of course you get nervous. I still remember the first girl I asked out. My heart was pounding. Yeah, I mean, but what's your alternative, right? Stay home.
[24:49] There's no alternative.
[24:50] So, you know, we're all the descendants of men who ask girls out. So we got to kind of keep it going, right?
[24:58] I heard that much. Yeah. Yeah, and I've been told, like, I say, I don't know, and I'm told, you do know. You do know.
[25:03] No, I'm just, so you were around a lot of girls in the band and other things. Did you go to, like, high school dances or junior high school dances?
[25:14] A couple, but I was always, like, you know, I never put any effort.
[25:19] Yeah, so you just didn't ask girls out.
[25:24] Basically.
[25:24] Okay. Yeah. And you said, I don't need it at some point. Were you aware at all that you were just kind of chickening out in a way? I mean, I don't mean to sound too harsh, but this is a fork in the road that every man has to cross, which is you got to ask girls out.
[25:40] I was not aware of anything. Well, that's giving myself no credit. I was not aware. This was not something in my, it was not in my nicking at all. I was just- Oh.
[25:53] No, come on. You'd never thought of any girls and ever asking them out like for, from the age of 13 to 20, like seven years, bad hormones. You're like, no, I've never, I didn't know. Come on. You must've thought about asking a girl out at some point in your teenage life.
[26:10] I definitely thought about asking them out. Yes. But I was satisfied with going home and not.
[26:17] I think we know the end of that sentence. Okay.
[26:19] Yes.
[26:20] All right. So, so satisfied. You didn't feel bad about it. Is that what you mean?
[26:24] Not at the time. Yes, not at the time.
[26:26] So this just seemed like a healthy and sensible course of action to avoid girls and go home to your computer?
[26:32] Yeah.
[26:32] Okay.
[26:33] I was just doing it.
[26:34] Did your older brother ask any girls out?
[26:39] No, and he still hasn't. He's 30, living with my parents, and he hasn't had one job in his whole life.
[26:47] Oh, so he's, because, you know, the first thing is asking for girls to go out with you.
[26:53] The second is to ask people to employ you. Right. So I guess he's zero for two. Okay.
[26:59] Yes.
[27:00] All right. And did your sister have boys ask her out?
[27:05] If she did, she didn't make it clear, but she, early on in high school, fell, became LGBT, kind of dipped out.
[27:16] Oh, okay. So maybe girls asking her out or something like that. Okay.
[27:19] Yes. It's very, yeah, that's what she, that's what I got from her was that she was having these sexual experiences.
[27:25] Okay, I don't want to, let's not, let's not get into your sister. She's not here. I was just kind of curious if you had any template for asking people that. Okay. So.
[27:33] Nope.
[27:34] Okay, so then you go to college, and how does that go?
[27:39] Well, same kind of deal where I'm blazing my way through it. You know, why am I going to college?
[27:45] Did you say lazing or blazing?
[27:47] Lazing, as in kind of like meandering.
[27:48] Okay, the B would be doing a lot of work in that sentence. Okay, go ahead.
[27:52] Right, right. Meandering would probably be a better way to describe it. Oh, why am I going to college? Well, I got to get a degree. Mom says, okay, I'll go to college. and I go for an engineering degree because I guess I like video games. I can make a computer game. Not wise. I'm talking to an ex-programmer, developer, entrepreneur here and I'm making light of it because that's what I did. And so my first semester...
[28:18] And I'm sorry to back up for just a second. Did your parents ever give you any advice or ask you about dating girls in your teenage years?
[28:26] Well, one of the conversations were, hey, [x], why don't you just invite a bunch of people?
[28:32] You can just say off the name, so I would appreciate that.
[28:34] Oh, my apologies. My apologies. Hey, you, this is my mom or dad. Why don't you bring people over? We're going to go out. You should just bring a bunch of people over. And this is like, I've been at home for two hours looking at the computer. I'm like, I don't have anybody to bring over. And they say, okay. And then they leave.
[28:52] Right. Okay. I mean, I assume they don't have a very robust social circle themselves, or were they more social?
[28:58] No, they were similar. They went out and had small circles, like they had a bowling league and stuff, but it was...
[29:05] Well, their bowling league is like your band group, right?
[29:09] Basically.
[29:09] Okay.
[29:09] Exactly, yeah.
[29:10] So you don't have to win anyone over there in the free market of relationships. It's all just arranged for you by school and band. Okay, so sorry about that. So you were saying you were entering through college engineering degree.
[29:22] Yep, and after my first two semesters, I was on probation because I didn't work hard in school. cool, I did well enough, and I just didn't know how to study. I didn't have any motivation to do the work, so I just switched to a psychology degree. And it actually motivated me a little bit, but at the same time, the degree program was pretty academic. So by the time I graduated, my prospects were stay in academia or go back home. And I chose to go back home in 2018 when I graduated. and, I could talk about specifically about my time in college, but the highlights were that there were three women that I spoke to a couple of times. Otherwise, I was doing the same thing I was doing at home. My housing was paid.
[30:12] Okay, so you didn't ask any girls out. And, you know, in a psychology degree, it's not like you are. It's not exactly female unfriendly, right?
[30:21] Right, exactly.
[30:23] Okay, so at this point.
[30:25] I did break out a little bit.
[30:26] So at this point, in your early 20s, you've never really asked a girl out and you've never really gone on a date. I mean, I guess you flew this girl out or whatever, but not any sort of courtship with a local female, right?
[30:39] My first real date was when I was 27.
[30:41] 27. Okay, got it. So was there anything else you wanted to say about your college years?
[30:48] Just that, you know, there were some women that around, you know, mid-college, I did start engaging with women. Um, but also just trying to engage, cause there was, this is about the time when a general unease started to work its way into my thinking. I started getting a little bit more nervous. Um, this is, um, 20, that's probably like 2021. Cause I graduated when I was 22. Um, so probably like junior, senior.
[31:18] I mean, it's a four year degree, right?
[31:21] I was a semester or two behind because I failed out of the one. I did a major switch, so I had to reset the curriculum.
[31:29] Okay, so 18 to 19, you're in college. 20, 21, 22.
[31:37] I graduated in December of 2018.
[31:40] Okay, all right. It's fine. So you got your degree, and then what?
[31:46] Well, December 2018 rolls around, and I'm like, Like, well, I'm going to go back home. And I go back home.
[31:53] Okay, I'm finding it a bit disconcerting how you're talking about your life. Right? Because, I mean, you're depressed and anxious to the point where, you know, death's starting to taste kind of sweet, right, at times.
[32:07] Yes.
[32:07] And you're like, well, this, and then, whoop, I did this, and then, whoop, I did that. And it's so disconnected. I don't, you know, the email is very tragic, right, and sad. Yeah. And you're talking about this like it's half a joke.
[32:25] That's what I've done, man.
[32:30] I don't know any other way. Can you stop doing that, please? Because it's weird, right? I'm not saying you're weird. I'm just saying that the mournfulness, the tragedy of the email. And then, well, I figured I'd do this. And then I just went home. And it's like, okay, what the heck is going on here? Are you sad or not?
[32:49] Well, yeah.
[32:54] I mean, if you want to put false bravado on stuff, you probably need to talk to someone else because I don't really do that, right? Because I'm looking for the honesty, right?
[33:04] Right.
[33:04] I mean, your life's a wreck.
[33:07] Yeah, it is.
[33:08] So maybe not the, hey, and then I just, hey, I'll go home. And, you know, like, what do you do? It's bizarre. It's like I'm sort of a circus performer who's sawing his own leg off.
[33:17] Yeah. That's the feeling.
[33:21] Okay. So, yeah, don't do that, please. Please, I'm begging you, because it's just too strange, right?
[33:27] I don't...
[33:29] It's pretending to someone that you have full range of motion when your bones are sticking out the break, right?
[33:35] Yeah.
[33:36] I'm fine. Let's go play basketball. It's like, bro, you're half bleeding out. No, no, I'm good. Walk it off. I'm good. I'm fine.
[33:45] I'm good. No. That's how I learned.
[33:51] Sorry, that's what? what that's.
[33:53] To get any kind of affection from my parents i had to i i had to do this i don't i don't just not have any.
[34:03] Okay so let's say hang on so let's say that's all true you haven't mentioned anything like that yet right you just said that they came home at six or seven o'clock at night said hello and went to watch tv right so you haven't mentioned anything about trying to get affection for your parents by being completely emotionally disconnected and pretending to be the opposite of how you feel. So that's kind of news for me. And secondly, if you know that, you're responsible for not doing that.
[34:35] True.
[34:35] Right? So if you say, well, I know I had to put on a clown show to get any kind of positive feedback from my parents. And it's like, so then you're responsible for not putting on the clown show. Because otherwise you're treating me like your parents. Like you're treating me as if I'm your neglectful parents.
[34:54] Right.
[34:55] And if you treat people like the people you hate, you will have a tough time connecting. Like if I treated every woman like my mother, I'd have a pretty tough time falling in love, wouldn't I? And so if you're going to treat me like you have to put on a weird clown show in order to connect with me, then you're treating me like your bad parents, right? Like I'm your bad parent. And if you're treating everyone like they're child abusers, and in my view, your parents were child abusers because they neglected their children.
[35:26] So if you're going to to go around the world treating people like they're child abusers you're not going to get any friends right makes sense okay so i'm not your parents right and you don't i don't want you to put on a show we're not here to pretend that everything's fine right because that's kind of weird right that is the old thing like going to the doctor because you're in agony and then saying no i feel fine in fact i've never felt better i feel robust and strong and healthy and And then your doctor's like, well, then why did you call me and say there was an emergency?
[36:02] That's true.
[36:03] Okay, so sorry to be harsh. I'm just trying to get to the facts, and I don't want you to treat me like your parents, obviously. So let's go on. You moved back home after your degree, and if you could tell me what's going on there.
[36:16] Firstly, I appreciate the feedback. Don't worry about being harsh. It helps to wake me up. Get me out of that. And thanks for keeping me honest. So I moved back home in 2018, and by this point my dad had some illness his legs were giving out he's diabetic is that.
[36:40] Due to obesity?
[36:42] No actually specifically he's diabetic so we can't like the blood sugar is a problem but he had a genetic condition or some kind of onset condition that was not really related to the diabetes but the diabetes didn't help the point is he lost a foot he lost one of his feet, But he's a normal, healthy body weight.
[37:05] Well, and I'm obviously no expert in diabetes, but if he is diabetic and knows he's diabetic or has those symptoms, was this not something, and I don't know, so educate me, is this something that could have been avoided with closer monitoring?
[37:19] No, his bones, the veins and arteries in his legs were calcifying. um there was no blood flow going to them and so any wound that he had on his foot would just stay infected um so they tried like um opening up the arteries they tried oh okay so he was in getting dvi it's just.
[37:38] Bad bad dice okay got it.
[37:40] Bad dice that's that's what it was and then the other foot goes so he's half he's got half of two feet he has one half of one of them um but he's got prosthesis now it's been four or five years since that happened and so you know he's been up and about but at the time, I stayed home to take care of my dad from 2018 onward.
[38:07] Sorry, what was his history with exercise? Because from what you said, he works in an office and comes home and watches TV. So did he play sports? Did he work out? Did he go to the gym? Did he exercise at all?
[38:20] I couldn't get him to exercise now. I couldn't get him to exercise then. When he was younger, he was a manual labor guy, but now he was trending always towards being a couch potato. And none of my protests were ever taken into consideration.
[38:39] And again, I have no idea whether exercise would have helped. In general, I think exercise helps as a whole, but so I don't know. It's my belief. Sorry, go ahead.
[38:53] It's my belief that it might have but given what happened to like post post calcifying no no no I'm talking about when.
[39:01] He was younger.
[39:03] No no no he was like a football player he was a baseball player he and my uncles were like up until, like 15 20 years ago more like yeah 20 years ago they were very active but once oh so he was active throughout.
[39:19] The early part of your childhood it.
[39:22] Yes. Like I said, he was doing contracting. He was doing garage doors and fireplaces. He was out and about. He was a manager in the sense that he'd go on site and do some work or order the people around. He was a manager, not in an office.
[39:39] So he was moving. It wasn't formal exercise, but he moved for his work.
[39:43] Yes yes and so when when it when this started happening to him it came as a shock to us because, he's been managing the diabetes and taking care of it and doing his steps but then the wound just didn't heal and so his that you know after six months of trying to keep it and the toes and it's gross but it was bad and then i got it so so it may or may not have.
[40:06] Helped um and certainly Once the calification stuff happens, again, I'm no doctor, so I'm just curious always how much of lifestyle affects people's medical issues. But if it was genetic and, you know, maybe, I mean, I think in general exercise helps as a whole. I mean, when I was going through my treatment for cancer, I was told many times that one of the reasons I had such a good chance of recovery and why I weathered it pretty well was because of my very robust underlying good health, right? So I never begrudge working out now because it probably kept me out of the grave. So, sorry, go ahead.
[40:43] Oh, I was just going to add on that after this, of course, he changed, of course. I mean, I think anybody who goes through losing an appendage would probably have any trouble going through anything. But he tried to stay active, and he has. Like I said, he's still out working and doing projects for the house, even though he's home. So... you know, it really does look like there wasn't anything that could have been done. Okay, I'm just curious.
[41:20] And of course, you know, master sympathies for everyone involved. If it's just bad luck and bad dice, huge sympathies. But, so, sorry, go ahead.
[41:27] I appreciate that. Yeah, it seemed that, regardless, before, because before the foot stuff, he had a heart attack. And I was like, you gotta, whatever you're managing, you're not really, I don't think you're, you know, you're not working out. You're not really walking all that much. Um, he's a big diet soda guy and like they won't drink him and my brother won't drink water. They'll just drink diet soda all day. And, you know, I was, this is when I was starting to go to the gym and I'm trying to get healthy. because this is probably during college when the symptoms kind of started to get real. And then when I graduated, the foot came off. But across all of my college time, when I would contact them, it'd be like contacting a brick wall. I'd say, hey, mom, how's it going? Good. How's dad doing? Good. The conversations we had were the same conversations over and over again. Specifically when it came to his health, but also in other things. I'd ask for some help and they'd be like, oh, help you.
[42:34] I'm sorry to interrupt, but so your father started exercising more or moving more after his foot and a half amputation. Is that right?
[42:43] Yes, yeah, yeah.
[42:45] And has he had more of these calcification issues since he started exercising?
[42:53] Um... Has he had more calcification? No, but the blood flow to the legs is still bad. The veins are still constricted, so he has to be really careful about getting a wound on those legs. Otherwise, it might do what the last one did and rot out. So he wears a bunch of protective layers on the amputation spots to stop that. Okay, got it.
[43:19] So, sorry, I just want to get back to you from your dad, because I appreciate that detour. I wanted to get a sense of that. that so okay so you've moved back home after college your dad's sick and then what.
[43:28] Well um i guess kind of kind of pardon my language just kind of screw around i just kind of fuck around for a little bit um which is to say i i'm at home and i'm on a break from college and my one month off turns into two months off turns into three months off turns into four months off and then then I'll get an idea that I want to go work somewhere. So I get the idea that I want to get a part-time job or a full-time job. So I just get in a car and drive over to my local restaurant and I get a part-time job there. I'm more than qualified. I was looking for jobs for psychologists, but I couldn't find one. So I just settled with the...
[44:14] Well, but you're not a psychologist with a four-year degree. That's just the beginning, right? You got to get your master's, maybe your PhD, you got to be mentored, you got to get passed the certification exams right so you know you're.
[44:24] Talking you.
[44:25] Know five to.
[44:27] Ten years undergrad for.
[44:28] At a minimum right.
[44:29] Yeah there's an entire there's an entire track there's um you know there's like in college i didn't partake in any internships i didn't build a network up i just went to school studied passed my classes and then went home um okay so so.
[44:46] Yeah so i mean you couldn't really get a job in psychology as far as i understand it.
[44:49] Absolutely with an undergrad grad degree.
[44:50] I'm certainly no expert, but it's tough. So, okay. So you work in a restaurant part-time and then what?
[44:56] Yep. Um, About four or five months into my shift there, COVID happens, and they shut down. So then I'm at home again during the lockdown. A few months into the lockdown.
[45:12] I get a job.
[45:14] You're getting those sweet.
[45:14] Sweet STEMI checks.
[45:15] I got one. I got one. But it was pleasant to get something. But I went to the local college, and the local college had a job as a convenience. They have a little walk-in convenience store thing. It was like a pod thing, but it was a pretty big-sized shop. I went there for six months, and there was a mask. Sorry, doing what?
[45:43] Like cashier?
[45:44] Clerk. Cashier, stocking shelves.
[45:47] So that's like a 14- or 15-year-old kid's job, right?
[45:51] Yes.
[45:52] And you're 24, 25?
[45:54] 24 at this time, because at this time I was also signing up.
[45:59] Did you ever have any concerns that this was all just dead-end crap?
[46:03] I did, because at this time I was also going, I also was interning at a law firm. I took my LSAT. I was like, oh, what do I want to do? Here's the thought process, really. What do I want to do? Lawyer sounds good. All right, I'll go take the LSAT. and I do like a week of studying and I pay for the LSAT test and I, I square. Well, let's just say I swore. Well, and I'm like, okay, I need some recommendations.
[46:34] I mean, you've gone engineer psychology and now law. So why did you want to be a lawyer? I'm not saying you didn't. I'm just curious. Why?
[46:44] I didn't want to be a lawyer. I was just looking for something that would, at the time I was rationalizing it as what would make me the most money. Um, I wanted to, I wanted money, I guess. I don't, I don't.
[47:01] And are you still living at home through this period?
[47:04] No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I, a year ago, I, I made some moves and now I'm out on my own.
[47:10] Sorry, a year ago? So that's not what I was asking. I said during this period, during the period that you were working at the convenience store.
[47:19] Right. I was, I was at home. It was like.
[47:21] Okay, so you were at home until last year.
[47:24] Yes.
[47:25] And we're talking about your mid-twenties here, right?
[47:28] Yes.
[47:28] Okay, so that's completely misinterpreting what I'm saying, unless you misheard me.
[47:33] I did. My apologies.
[47:35] No, that's fine. That's fine. That's an interesting thing, though, right? Because basically, you lived at home for, like, what, three or four years after?
[47:45] Six years. years no in total three or four years.
[47:48] After you uh you did the restaurant covered one stimmy check convenience store lsat right so.
[47:55] You.
[47:55] Lived for at home for years after this right.
[47:58] Yes and your.
[48:00] Brother was still living at home still is right.
[48:02] Okay all.
[48:04] Right so lsat and then what.
[48:07] Um i went to go intern at a law firm and i uh i did that for six months and i realized i didn't like law all that much uh so like and they also you know um it wasn't a good place i didn't like being a lawyer so i nixed that and i decided to give myself a timetable where if in one year i didn't accomplish um at the time i was like doing i was bouncing between oh i want to be a an artist or I want to make YouTube. I want to be creative. I want to do something. I made a, you know, if I'm not making money in a year, I'll move out. So this is 2021 and the 2022. And it was about as vague as that. I'm not leaving anything out of that, that little promise that I made to myself that that is just what it was.
[49:02] So what do you do with all the time when you're not working?
[49:07] Same thing I was doing Going in high school and college stuff, same thing.
[49:13] You mean like video game stuff? Okay.
[49:15] Yeah, there'd be pangs of like, oh, I should be doing something else. And I'd get really nervous and I'd feel depressed. Or I'd feel depressed, obviously, for reasons that are pretty clear in hindsight. But yeah, the same thing.
[49:35] So, I mean, how bad is your parents' relationship? Because there's one reason why parents don't encourage kids to leave the nest, right? And the main reason is don't leave me alone with someone I'm not particularly close to.
[49:52] Yeah, it's part of my laughing there. But this is a question that I've tried to grapple with, but I just feel like I don't have the perspective to say it outright. But, you know, when we were kids, it was a lot of just come do this, do that. Um, you know, not yelling specifically, but more like yelling across the house. If somebody needed something, they would just be on the couch and yell from the couch. And I'd be up in my room downstairs. So they'd have to yell loud. And the communication was always very confrontational. It was always like, well, you don't, you don't, nobody ever listens to me. You never like, this is them talking to each other. But also when I would talk to my dad and he would talk to me, he'd freak out. I'd freak out. Mom would freak out. My brother would freak out.
[50:39] So I'm not sure what you mean by freak out.
[50:42] Well, if something goes wrong, I guess the best way to describe my mom is as a hypochondriac. The maternal worry on crack, I guess. It's like I can't do anything without her swirling her way.
[50:57] Sorry, what do you mean the maternal worry on crack? She handed you over to daycare teachers, to people who were running summer camps. You were home alone at a tender age with your brother and sister. I don't understand the worry thing. Don't women who worry don't do that kind of stuff? I'm sorry if I'm confused. I'm missing something obvious. But if you could explain that or square that circle for me, I'd appreciate it. The fuck does she care about?
[51:20] Not worry about us. Not worry about us, though. It wasn't, I wouldn't call it worry about us, though. I would call it more worry about, oh, don't do that. Don't do that. Don't do that. That's a bad idea. Do this instead. Do this instead.
[51:32] Okay, so that's different about you, right? Is it?
[51:38] It's hard for me to square away because she would say that but then I would, I'm trying to find let me think of a good example if you don't mind me so, uh she ugh, I can't think of a solid example of that point. So I'll just go back.
[52:07] So she's like a lot of women that they're anxious about the immediate and don't have any developed sense of danger for the long term. So she manages spikes of anxiety in the moment, but doesn't particularly care whether her children fail at launching.
[52:27] Yes.
[52:28] So, yes, I get it. I get it.
[52:30] Yes. Um, the example, I thought it was just a very recent one when I began to talk to them, when I confronted them. Um, this, I tried a couple of times to talk, just ask questions. Um, but at least until the last time we talked, my mom and dad both took my, my criticisms as personal attacks. Oh, we did the bet. You know, you've heard it all a million times from you done the, we've done the best we could.
[52:59] And that's my fault for asking. So, but I just want to make sure we stay up to the present. Okay. So, so you quit the law firm because you don't like working in the legal field. And then what? And then you stay home for a bit. And then you're not making any money. You're not getting anywhere. So then a year ago, you move out. Is that right?
[53:20] Yes. Interspersed in all this time, I was active. A lot of my time was taken up by political activism. I was all over the place. I was a chauffeur and I was helping people out, driving to locations and setting up engagements and stuff for politics. I won't go any further than that. but this carried me up until the you know past of 2021 into 2022 um and i also started going to uh, it's around that time i also started i was born catholic so i started going to church again um but there was like a latin mass it was one of those traditional sorry you fall away from catholicism, Oh, we were never, it was, it was, we were Christmas Easter type Catholics growing up. Like, there was never anything serious. My mom and dad would just, you know, go every so often. I came back into it simply because I was just reading in college, getting politically involved. I have to interact with people. So I kind of wanted to shore up my knowledge. And I'm like, oh, well, the Catholic Church seems to at least have a better grasp on morality than others. And they have a long history. And I'm Catholic. Why don't we try this out? Stick with that. um and and.
[54:38] There were no girls in your 20s that you wanted to ask out too much right.
[54:43] Like there were there were there were a couple of times but um i was either rejected or i i discovered that it would not have been in my best interest um i still had a little bit of standards at that time in that there was one girl that i was talking to one woman actually she was in like some kind of weird, you know, we were talking for a while, but she was in some kind of weird like polycule thing where it was her and one guy, and this guy had like six other women.
[55:10] A polycule? What was that?
[55:13] Yeah, I'm not sure if that's the right word, but she was like, oh, my boyfriend goes with other women.
[55:19] Oh, so she was like in a harem or something.
[55:22] Yeah, that's a better way to describe it. Because it's one guy, and he's got a harem of like six women. And I was like, oh.
[55:29] Okay, so you were rejected by that woman?
[55:32] No, I didn't want any – I chose not to be part of that.
[55:34] Oh, yeah, you chose to stay away from that. Okay.
[55:36] Right.
[55:36] All right.
[55:37] There was another woman in my psychology class that I started speaking to, and she kind of – I don't want to say freaked out, but it was a very explosive reaction to me speaking to her. I said hello I sat next to her and I said hello and she's like look I'm not interested in talking to you I'm not interested in being in a relationship with you please don't talk to me and I'm like okay I never talked to her that was my first that was like my second conversation with her so you're having trouble reading people well her yes but then there was another polyamorous girl.
[56:19] She's going to have stink freak coming off her like roadkill on a hot highway.
[56:26] True. Let's just say, I'll give you that. I don't have any counterpoint to say. So it's very likely that's the case because the third woman in college rejected me. We had gone out basically on like a group date or it was like a group get together. And she asked me to drive her home and we're sitting in the car. Like it's like midnight, you know, the sunroof's down. We're sitting in the car talking to each other. and we're talking about our lives. And then I don't remember exactly what happened, but I remember mentioning the idea of us getting into a relationship. Not sure if this was a good strategy or not, working blind here. But I said that. I said like, well, why don't we stick together? Why don't we get together? And she's like, well, actually, I gotta go. I'll talk to you later. I'm not really into, I don't wanna be around guys right now. I'm in a weird spot. See you later. And I see her the next day, she's surrounded by a gaggle of goons, you know, just like a, a group of guys. And then she stops texting me after that. And that was the last.
[57:36] My guess would be that she'd been the victim of some sexual aggression or sexual assault or rape or, or something like that. And, and was just messed up about that stuff. I mean, I don't know, but I mean, that would be my guess. Yes.
[57:49] If I had any empathy, if I was feeling any empathy at that time, I can't remember it because I was mostly just in, I want to get something, I want mode, kind of selfish. I don't remember really conceiving even of that. Any idea like that was not in my head at that time.
[58:08] And you're at what age? This is in your early 20s?
[58:11] This is probably near the end of college, so 21 or 22.
[58:15] Okay, got it. All right, so let's get to the present time.
[58:21] Well, present time is when things have, I'd say, gone well. So present time, gone, better. This is, well, we'll save my judgments for later. Let's just talk facts. So I was Catholic. I started being Catholic at the end of college, or sorry, around the end of COVID, around the political time think 2020 21 to the beginning of 2023 I'm still going to Latin Mass I'm a diligent Catholic I'm participating in the role I'm doing all the stuff and I.
[59:03] Um, it's near the end of Lent of 2023 and there's a woman there who I was like, she's kind of pretty, you know, I actually had like a twinge of, I kind of want something. Wait, she's kind of, let me talk to her. And there's like a get together after, after the mass and we're talking and, oh, she's laughing. Oh, we're, we're laughing. We're having a good conversation here. Oh shoot. Shoot, I feel like I'm having a closer, a nicer conversation than I've had in a long time. There's a big event the week after this. Oh, and it's a dance, and everybody's going to be there. It's like a cross parish dance thing. So I go there, and she's there. And I'm like nervous as all get out. I'm nervous as all get out. And I see her, and I'm like, I got to do it. I walk up, and I ask her to dance, and we dance.
[59:58] And then there's a little get-together after the dance we're having a good time and then there's little it's like a barred little party at midnight after this dance and I guess something comes over me and I'm like I gotta ask this girl out on a date I don't even know how I'm gonna do this up I guess I did it and I'm like would you like to go on a date with me and she said yes now it wasn't like she was like excited or i'm like she seemed kind of ambivalent to the idea of a date in hindsight she was like sure okay i took i got in my car and was like oh yes finally a date.
[1:00:39] Um and then i go to this this little coffee shop thing and And I don't mean to be funny when I say it, but it's just, this was probably the worst, one of the worst dates.
[1:00:55] Sorry, you took her to a coffee shop?
[1:00:59] She chose a coffee shop.
[1:01:02] Oh, so you said, where do you want to go? And she said, I just want a coffee.
[1:01:06] Yeah.
[1:01:07] Yeah, that's not a great sign. Okay.
[1:01:09] Well, there's a lot of bad signs here in hindsight. But yeah, so the date comes around And I'm a nervous wreck First off, I'm a nervous wreck, I don't know what to say I'm talking about, I spend an hour Sitting across from this woman Talking about the weather And cars, and politics, Not really igniting any kind of Emotional connection whatsoever I feel like I'm stuck And I feel her tuning out I see the feedback that she's giving me I'm just like, oh, no, oh, no. And... And I could go into details. I mean, that's as much detail as I think I can go into. I just got to this date. I look bad. I sounded bad. I was really nervous, but you know, it was for all intents and purposes. My first date, I don't like to beat myself up too much.
[1:02:01] So you, and you were 28 at this point?
[1:02:04] I'm 27. 27.
[1:02:06] Okay. Got it.
[1:02:07] And so I'm like, it was like simpery 101. Let's, let's just put it that way. Twitter simp or for all the hot shot stuff I'd say Sorry.
[1:02:19] I know what you mean in general, but I'm not sure how you're using the term specifically.
[1:02:25] In the way you think I mean, it's like the generic oh, she's giving me attention I got really nervous when, I was just not confident. There was no confidence, there was no competence, there was no positive energy exuding from me. In hindsight, I felt like I was a big bundle of anxiety and neuroticism. And this is at a time when I hadn't talked to my parents about anything. This is me basically immediately after not going to law school. So you're talking to me right now. This is a year ago. Imagine you're like an unprepared Catholic woman getting this thrown at you.
[1:03:09] Oh, this being like how you were before? with the jokey-jokey stuff?
[1:03:14] Exactly. All of the energy for the past hour without any of the, ability to notice that i'm doing it too and even i didn't notice it okay or rather i was sorry i get.
[1:03:27] It so so how did the date ended and she didn't want to have another date is that right.
[1:03:32] Yep um i get a message from her that says that's cool she says she says you're fun to talk to but uh let's not just let's not go forward with this but i was i i continue to you weren't.
[1:03:47] You weren't real with her though.
[1:03:48] Exactly you didn't say this.
[1:03:51] I mean it's crazy this is my first date believe it or not i'm really nervous i find you really attractive i like.
[1:03:55] However right oh.
[1:03:57] You did i did.
[1:03:58] That okay no yeah i said i said this is my first date i'm really nervous um like i'm like and she's like that's cool that's cool um yeah i did all that i thought no yeah i said oh this is my first date i'm kind of i'm kind of anxious and i'm kind of jittery and you know i'm not really sure exactly what to do you know i showed that so i didn't show that and.
[1:04:19] Did you do any research ahead of time on what to talk about on dates or how to have a date or did you watch videos or read books or anything like that.
[1:04:27] I did i did i um but it went poof it was not practiced it was not trained i defaulted into oh you just like.
[1:04:34] Watched a bunch of stuff and thought it would stick yeah.
[1:04:37] Yeah that's that's a that's a german.
[1:04:39] And i think i can speak german okay got it.
[1:04:41] Bingo go exactly that's exactly what it is it's it was um just just cram it just cram it um and but i also i i underestimated you know like if i'd have thought i would have in hindsight i didn't do enough preparation let's just say i didn't do enough preparation yeah well.
[1:05:00] I mean you didn't do enough preparation for 14 years.
[1:05:02] No i mean i'm serious right yes i.
[1:05:09] Mean or you know 12 years or like 15 to.
[1:05:12] 27.
[1:05:12] Or whatever, right? So you were, you know, well over a decade behind the curve, and you think you can catch up by watching a couple of videos, right?
[1:05:26] I agree with that. It's just that I wasn't thinking that at the time. My idea was...
[1:05:30] No, I mean, look, sometimes we just have to learn by experience, so, okay. So she doesn't want to go on another date. I guess we can fathom. And then what?
[1:05:38] Um well, The date kind of set off some alarm bells before and after the date. I was like, something in me just turned over. I can't live like this anymore.
[1:05:55] Sorry, sorry. What was your work situation when you went on this date?
[1:05:59] It was nothing. It was, I was still, it was just happenstance that I got this date.
[1:06:05] Nothing had changed. So hang on. How old was this woman roughly?
[1:06:09] 27. Same, my age. Okay.
[1:06:11] So this woman's 27. and you want to go on a date with her when you're unemployed, were you still living at home?
[1:06:18] I was.
[1:06:19] Oh, my God, man. What are you kidding? No, really?
[1:06:23] I did that. I did that.
[1:06:26] Okay. Why would anyone go for an unemployed guy with no work history to speak of who's living at home at 27 and has never been on a date before?
[1:06:35] You know, that question popped into my mind immediately or a few days after she rejected me or during the time.
[1:06:41] During this whole process. Maybe if you're 22 or 21, you know, she's got some time to kill, but she's looking for marriage. And how are you going to support a family? How are you going to be the leader of the household? I mean, you're a broke guy with no job.
[1:06:59] God knew then, and I guess maybe knows now. I don't know. But that was what turned over. I'm like, holy shit.
[1:07:06] How long have you been listening to what I do?
[1:07:09] I've been listening to you since i was when you were on youtube i was listening for a little bit but i got turned on to you again by my um therapist um like to to listen to actual content so i've been listening to you legitimately oh like your therapist said listen to.
[1:07:26] This guy online.
[1:07:28] Yeah um he's he like specifically he mentioned details but okay so so you.
[1:07:33] Listened to me for a while back at the YouTube days. And is that when you emailed me?
[1:07:40] No, no, no, no, no. I sent you, I only really got, he, he suggested that I send you a message. Um, I sent you a message, um, a month ago or a month and a half ago.
[1:07:49] Right.
[1:07:50] And then I sent you another one, one month ago. Cause I waited a couple of weeks.
[1:07:53] Got it.
[1:07:54] Um, so this is all very recent. Like I haven't been listening, you know, finished UPB. I've been going through all your, like Colin shows, history of philosophy, like going through all your real content over the past year.
[1:08:05] And have you ever floated around the manosphere or sexual dynamics or sexual market value?
[1:08:12] Yes, sexual market value. I was part of the political sphere I was in. There's the conflicts between these red pill guys and the womanizers and the traditional capital guys.
[1:08:22] Okay, so you knew that women are looking for a man with competence in the material realm and resources and so on, right?
[1:08:29] I believed it was ego. I believed that my charm would carry me. That was it. Whatever charm I felt like I had, I hadn't gotten any feedback to the negative. I felt like I would be fine.
[1:08:40] You know that pride and vanity is a sin, right?
[1:08:43] Yes.
[1:08:43] Okay.
[1:08:45] At the time.
[1:08:45] But not for you.
[1:08:46] It wasn't in my conception.
[1:08:47] Not for you.
[1:08:48] True. Yes.
[1:08:49] Everything was for other people. I am me.
[1:08:52] Everything. Exactly. Everything for others, but never for me. I did a lot of projecting, too. There's a lot of connections I've made to that.
[1:08:58] What's happened over the last year?
[1:09:01] Well, so after this date, during this date, I flip over. I say, I got to get out of here. I can't live in this house. I have no money. I have no job. I have no friends. Panic, panic, panic moment. It's chaos. I'm like, okay, I got to get a job. Luckily, there's a couple of job opportunities, one given to me by a guy at church and another given to me just through my due diligence. And I landed an office job. making a good salary. This is, by the way, this is like June of 2023. So I choose between that. I choose that job, working with the guy from church. And, A week later, once I get my first paycheck, I'm like, I'm leaving mom and dad. I'm out of here. I don't know what I got to do. I got to get out of here. And they're, and they're, they're winning me against it. They're like, no, you can't go out on your own. Stay home, save the money. Don't go out. I'm like, no, no, no. I'm leaving. I couldn't, I was being compelled by forces that I didn't understand at that moment. I was just, I got to get out of here.
[1:10:01] Well, they're called, but okay, go on.
[1:10:03] Yes. Yes. I, I've learned more knowledge about them now, but at the time it was like, I got to get out. So I get an apartment, I get good rent. I'm in that apartment right now and then, December comes around I lose that job I lose that job it was same thing with first date, first job, I didn't have the work ethic or the discipline, I didn't even know what a PIP was, so when they PIP me I was like, oh this is fine, I didn't even tell my therapist, a PIP, a performance it's called a performance improvement plan Okay, so I'm not too crazy. Apparently, this is...
[1:10:42] People thought you were doing a bad job, and they said you're going to have to improve, or you're gone.
[1:10:46] Or we'll fire you.
[1:10:47] Okay. And how long into the job did you have this pip? Or how long into the job did they notice you had problems?
[1:10:55] It was a little less than a month.
[1:10:57] Wait, a month into the job, they're telling you you...
[1:10:59] No, no, no, no, no. No, no, no, no, no. It was from the end of the job. So I lost the job in December. from the beginning of December I was I got pipped.
[1:11:09] From June until November so June to the beginning of December and for the first month or two maybe he's just learning the ropes and so on and then you get this pip and then you're gone by the end of the month, yes so what did you not do that they wanted you to do, it I
[1:11:38] To describe it simply, I guess, there was a whole bundle of bad behavior that caused it. Little stuff like putting responsibility for some of my tasks on others. What do you mean? I don't know what that means. Well, if I did something, I would take credit for things I did well, but I really was not trying to do this, and I hope.
[1:12:06] Okay, I don't, I don't, forget the intentions Just tell me what happened Sorry.
[1:12:11] I apologize I would take credit for things that I That I thought were good, but when things Were bad, I would say this is Not my responsibility, Um, likewise Um, also, there's Um, you know, the Work We were a salaried position But we were expected to put in a lot of extra Hours outside of work, I didn't understand that at the time and so like two months in I'm falling behind I catch back up because I pull a couple of all-nighters, but then I'm being judged on coming in on time and also staying for extended periods of time well into the night, but also So, um, not one of the, another thing was that they, uh, I was still asking a lot of questions two or three, four months into the job. Um, they mentioned that I should have learned quicker and that when it came to holding response, one of the main things on the PIP was just holding responsibility for the work. That was the real big thing.
[1:13:27] So just not blaming other people when things go badly. yes okay yes um so uh did you work very hard you said you didn't take it very seriously is that right they.
[1:13:39] Said they said it would seem like that.
[1:13:41] Okay so did you move heaven and earth to try and deal with the issues or did you just kind of continue and change a bit or how did it go.
[1:13:50] Near the beginning uh when i realized that i was causing a when i realized i was causing trouble for them. I really did. That's when I started pulling these all-nighters. But then there just came a moment when I was sitting in the office and I could just tell that in the next few, like the next week or so, that I was going to be gone.
[1:14:10] The mood changed around me. And that's because you did the all-nighters and then weren't coming in the next day, or what do you mean?
[1:14:16] I couldn't tell you exactly what the reason for the vibe shift was. That's a fun way to say it, but I couldn't tell you exactly what the reason for the shift in the perspective was. It was just…, They had given me a talk. They said, you know, it doesn't seem like you're really trying all that hard. It doesn't really seem like you're really interested in learning. And I said, I am. I'm working. And then I pulled the all-nighters, and I got another talk like a week later where they said, you're really going to need to step your game up and get these projects done. And because I was at this point, I was still shouldering, you know, work was getting passed to me because I was doing it quickly. But there was more work on my plate than I had had a week or two before, even though I had to do dates and people were coming in and out. But then I'm like, I got it. I could do it. And I'm looking at what I'm doing. I'm trying to optimize my time. I'm trying to figure out what exactly I'm doing wrong. I'm like, guys, can you tell me exactly what I'm doing wrong? And they say, Sorry.
[1:15:26] You didn't know what you were doing wrong?
[1:15:29] Not in any, not in any, not in any reason, not any metric that I could like, okay, I'm doing my work on time. My projects are getting completed. What is the problem? Because, Oh, so it wasn't.
[1:15:43] It wasn't that your numbers were down, that everybody else was producing 10 widgets a day, but you were producing five.
[1:15:49] That is the only thing that makes sense to me because my numbers weren't down like the the, sheets they were talking about were like you don't seem very interested in the work you don't seem like you're really compelled to keep going like i'm i'm hitting that you're giving me tasks i'm doing the tasks and then i'm also having to bring on other people's tasks too i'm having to go over and teach other people how to do this job and i'm also having to do my work and then two more times Sorry.
[1:16:19] You sound really annoyed here.
[1:16:23] I am.
[1:16:25] And so what specifically were you annoyed at?
[1:16:33] I tried to, I thought I was doing a good job. So when they fired me, I was like, I thought I was doing a good job. I don't know what you guys are on. I was doing a good job.
[1:16:49] Okay. You know that that doesn't matter, right? Like what you think you're doing doesn't matter. What matters is what your boss thinks you're doing because he's representing the customers. So it matters that your boss thinks you're doing a good job. Now, when you got the job, did you have performance goals?
[1:17:06] Like you have to do X by whatever, X units a week. So you had performance goals. And why did you have to pull all-nighters? I assume it's because you weren't meeting your performance goals, right?
[1:17:20] No. Long story short, it's a construction thing. And so we were responsible for the process of making sure that the subs got paid, the contractors would get paid. And how you do that is you get the job. We're responsible for putting the offers together. And so depending on the amount of offers that we get, we have to put together these very complicated order sheets and material orders and numbers and stick them all in a sheet and turn them over quickly for each client as they come in. And there's three of us, four of us, and there's – this is a company that covers the entire eastern seaboard, basically, the entire northeast of the United States in terms of the work they do. And so we're being paid salary, but for the workload to hit the numbers, I guess, we were just kind of getting – at the time, I didn't ask, but we were just kind of getting pushed. We were just kind of pushing. Sorry, you didn't have one?
[1:18:30] I didn't know anything about what goes on after I do my job, after I put together my proposal and send it off because the proposal gets checked by the guy on top of me, and it gets sent off to who knows where. All I know is that we're constantly getting work. We're constantly getting requests for bids, and none of the work is coming into – I mean, I'm working as fast as I can while keeping it accurate. I tried working faster, but then my boss got on me and said, there's a lot of errors on here. What happened? I'm like, I tried to speed it up and see if I could fix it. That didn't work. Let me go back and redo it. And so my speed, the speed with which I was doing these things didn't let me go fast enough. So I had to, it's basically, I guess is an affirmative response to your question. I guess the performance goals were higher than I could handle on the normal will eight to five so i stayed i stayed i stayed later to make sure that the work would be on time.
[1:19:33] Yeah i mean.
[1:19:34] I'm sure.
[1:19:34] That that was appreciated to some degree but it also does burn you out for the rest of the week right.
[1:19:38] I at some point i would i would agree that i've i would feel burned out but i still came in anyway i mean i didn't have yeah you know one day maybe maybe i mean there's.
[1:19:53] Maybe it wasn't a fit for you? Like maybe they're just looking for a different type of person. Sometimes jobs just don't fit the personality. So maybe it just wasn't a great fit for you?
[1:20:02] Right. My... My indignant response to when I got fired has given way a little bit more to a little bit more response and recognizing the responsibility that I had. And also, like you said, the fact that it's not really a good fit.
[1:20:18] Well, they could also have been exploiting people, right? They could have had a buy and burn mentality. Like we're just going to, we're going to pay salary. We're going to demand, in a sense, 12 hours a day. We're going to pay for seven and a half and they just burn people out.
[1:20:31] Yeah.
[1:20:32] In which, in which case, you know, that's not a great place to work, right?
[1:20:35] Right.
[1:20:36] I'm sure your mom had some of those jobs as a coder, too, where it's just like, this has got to get done, and here's some pizza, and we're here all night. And it's okay once in a while, but it's not a great way to do business in the long run.
[1:20:50] Well, I wish I could say that I could give her that benefit of the doubt, but she did not. She's always been in kind of like a comfy, back-end, kind of presenter, marketer-type role, doing only the minimal.
[1:21:04] Oh, she doesn't do that much coding.
[1:21:06] Yeah, she's in Ruby or something like that, and that's it.
[1:21:11] Okay, so you got fired. Sorry, I just want to make sure we stay with you. So you got fired end of December, and what's been happening over the last six or seven months?
[1:21:18] Well, I had a store of funds saved up, and I decided I'd be listening to your stuff. I had a store of funds saved up from work. From this job? Yes, from this job for six months. My rent was low, and salary was good. and so i was able to save up a good store of money okay and so i had at least two months without doing any kind of credit without doing anything that i could i could burn like aside from rent right i had enough money to spend you know a month or two months or even three months if i was getting paid i decided to go for entrepreneurship okay based on i think i hear the incredulity in your voice.
[1:22:00] Well, based on what knowledge, what experience, what, I mean, I'm going to just be a surgeon. Hey, I've cut bread before.
[1:22:09] My gusto, my can-do attitude, that was really all I had.
[1:22:14] All right. Um, here's where you prove my skepticism wrong because you're now a zillionaire. Anyway, go on.
[1:22:22] Yes. Here's where I prove it. Here's where I prove you completely right. Um, sorry for the laughing, but, um, the entrepreneurship, as it turned out, um, turns out I can make calls on the phone and I can close decently. Well, with just a little bit of, uh, with a little bit of sales experience that I had. and but one thing i did was i started networking with local business owners and i jumped into a web design business in february um it was a digital marketing thing well so website creation social media management and all that stuff.
[1:23:00] And the guy was my business partner that i was talking to um you know he's a he's a development guy but he's also got a family he's not really working full time and so i jumped on with him i had money and i had the time and we started getting some we started getting some work you know five hundred dollar bill to me you know the the websites are pretty cheap stuff you know it's local businesses they but anyway i do website how did you get all these skills he taught me um he taught me specifically web design and i guess i've taught myself digital advertising i guess um was able to get good results for people but the work the cold calling and the you know i mean unfortunately that's kind of what i might have to be doing now but i just kind of on this i was like i'm going to sit down i'm going to learn this because if i don't learn this i'm not going to have any money in three months so i just put notes to grindstone on it and i just tried to learn how to do it yeah.
[1:24:00] I mean so one of the tough things about that kind of business model is if you can learn the work relatively quickly so can everyone else including ai.
[1:24:07] Yes and we ran into that or rather we were going to run into that before i realized that this was a uh, uh silly idea i realized how silly it was a month and a half ago sorry.
[1:24:22] But you will.
[1:24:22] And money.
[1:24:23] Right so you get a 500 buck project here.
[1:24:24] And there project here and there but um that was in february and mark since then i've only been making 500 a month oh gosh okay with the with the pros with the prospect of how many clients i would rather not say it's embarrassing no no come on now.
[1:24:42] It's not the time.
[1:24:43] Full time full time i was basically going full time on this trying to get this trying to learn and do these websites and stuff for these clients so whatever a full-time week is closer to you know i had the i had the locational freedom to work anywhere but the work was just, there was clients coming in but so you're making about three bucks an hour, basically okay basically working for nothing but the prospect being that because there were these clients who were going to sign but they didn't sign oh once that once they sign on we're good we've got like five five things booked up nope they pushed it back the ads aren't going the ads aren't nobody's buying the ads because they don't really need them um everybody's managing their own social media no they don't need that nobody's buying nobody's buying what what we're selling and um so from yeah from from that onwards i've been burning up all of the money that i got left uh that i had left off of that like i said i had enough to counteract it a little bit but now we're running into august and rent's coming due and i've got enough to pay my rent for this month, or last month. But this month, I'm going to... I already talked to my guy about this. Yeah.
[1:26:07] And that's where I'm at. There's one more wrinkle in the whole professional life.
[1:26:14] I helped this guy with his political campaign. And he runs a real estate company. and he's like basically paying to train me to be a real estate realtor type guy, and like I got my license and I did the test and all that and he's like making all these cars and he's like in me though he's giving me like sales training like legit real estate sales training but once again that just kind of reads to me like entrepreneurship again and I don't I mean at least I'll I'll have somebody teaching me. But that, and this, like this whole, All this is just, I'm not sure. I'd rather just do a couple things part-time and build my finances back up or something. But that's the extent of my professional life up to now.
[1:27:13] Okay, and you haven't gone out on any other dates since the 127-year-old woman, right?
[1:27:22] I've tried there was actually another woman online, the beginning of this year since I moved out of my parents place I've had more contact with women than I ever had before, I was on an online relationship again just because I put myself on a dating app but I didn't live at my location I was going everywhere because I felt like I could drive anywhere. Um, this woman was once again in the Midwest and at this time I still had the funds and I had the lively spirit to say, Hey, I'm going to drive up and I'm just going to meet you and we're going to go on a date and I'm going to, you know, I'm going to move in with you. You're going to move in with me. Cause my, my belief was that sorry.
[1:28:07] I'm going to move in with you. You're going to move in with me.
[1:28:11] Not at the time. I made sure to say, sorry, she said that.
[1:28:14] I'm trying to follow your story, bro.
[1:28:17] Sorry. I'm rushing again. Let me calm down. Because this is, I'm getting heated.
[1:28:25] No, that's fine. Let's talk about you getting heated. What do you mean?
[1:28:30] There's just so much to cover. I was talking to this woman, and she's immediately romantic with me, and she's giving me compliments. She's talking about kissy-goo-goo faces, and this is in January.
[1:28:43] She's kind of desperate? Why is she desperate?
[1:28:46] She just got out of a six-year relationship with a guy who wouldn't commit to her. And I was waxing. She was my age.
[1:28:53] Okay, so she's trying to lock down something before the eggs fade. Okay.
[1:28:58] Yes. And I was also waxing philosophical as much as I could about, you know, I was pivoting to trying to be more genuine and have good conversations with people.
[1:29:07] Sorry, and how recently had she gotten out of the six-year relationship?
[1:29:12] I think it was like she'd been out of it for about six months to a year, if I remember right.
[1:29:17] Okay.
[1:29:19] Um and so the rapport is initially good and we have good chats but then she's she works but you know she would go ghost for days at a time and respond and then we'd only have like a couple of calls i think we spoke maybe like once or twice or three times a month oh.
[1:29:42] God okay so she's She's obviously.
[1:29:44] Fielding a bunch of guys.
[1:29:45] Okay.
[1:29:46] That was my hunch. And then eventually, I think, beginning of April, she stopped responding. And that's when I'm like, okay. By that point, I was also quite out of it because I had gone to my… Okay.
[1:30:03] So I'm looking for philosophically relevant stuff here. Another long-distance thing that petered out. I'm not sure that I want to spend a lot of valuable time on that.
[1:30:11] We're done with it. We're done with it. We're done with it.
[1:30:13] You know, an hour and 35, and we haven't gotten to any actual feedback from me yet.
[1:30:20] I will leave it with this. There's two more things that happen. The first is that I went to a baptism for a friend, and I met a girl there. And we hit it off. And we're driving around. It's late at night. And we just start making out. I just started making out with her. She She starts making out. She takes me, pulls me in, and we start making out. And for the next two days, we're just no sex, just, you know, just hanging out in the car at night, tops down, you know, looking at the sky. And then at the end of that time, she's like, I'm not really interested in being with you like that. Sorry. Because she's, and she's talking about her other, she's talking about the other guys. She's talking to, she's like all nervous.
[1:31:09] And I'm like, okay. I don't even want to deal with that. So I just let her go. I let that go. I didn't want to, bother with that and the last thing that happened was that there was one more woman this was about three months ago or two months ago now and she this is the first time i've ever had to reject somebody before but she was grossly overweight she did not take care of herself but she was interested in me and and frankly i was gonna try to make her feel good by like reject like going on a date and rejecting her in person or like trying to ease the pain of me rejecting her because i'd never rejected anybody before um but then where did i got the invites oh this was also an online this was also on an app okay so sorry so.
[1:31:57] You you got matched with the woman who was obese right.
[1:32:01] Yes did.
[1:32:03] She contacted you.
[1:32:04] Um it was it was um it was on uh hinge so it was like, i i sent the first message because she looked good in the the picture that she had but then she sent more pictures and she was not accurate uh not in the scale you got fat okay i got So.
[1:32:28] Why did you continue talking with her?
[1:32:32] I didn't. And as soon as I got that information, I talked to, I got some advice.
[1:32:36] Okay.
[1:32:36] And it was like, you got to just reject her because you're either going to waste your time talking to her. And you're going to like, what, for what purpose? What, why would you keep talking to her?
[1:32:46] Right.
[1:32:46] I didn't. So I sent her a message. I'm like, you know, um, I can't, I can't go on. I don't have any interest in continuing the conversation with you, particularly because it was the wait. And she took it pretty well. She didn't curse me out or anything. She's just indignant. She's like, fine, I'll find somebody else. Take care. And I kind of— Okay.
[1:33:11] Why are we talking about this?
[1:33:14] That was the last experience I had with a woman. That's it. Sorry.
[1:33:17] Okay, so I'm saying let's not waste time talking about things that go nowhere. and then you say, this girl, I got fatfished, and the girl... Why are we talking about this?
[1:33:27] I don't know! I don't know. I'm trying...
[1:33:36] Oh, did we just lose you?
[1:33:37] No, no, no. I'm still here. I just, you know, something crossed my mind.
[1:33:41] And what was that?
[1:33:42] Anytime I talk to somebody, Stef, I just try to give everything. I try to pull out to everything. I don't have anybody to share with. So even if it's irrelevant, I've never verbalized that to anybody. So it's totally novel. and that's that's that's my first guess that's my best guess.
[1:34:08] Is to why the novel so you just talk.
[1:34:13] Yes well sharing sharing the sharing this information with anybody is novel.
[1:34:18] No no it's not sharing no what you do is not sharing you're just talking right i mean you haven't asked me once how do you want this conversation to go is that too much information is that like you're not inquiring as to my experience of the conversation i don't and it's not a criticism i'm just sort of pointing it out right it's not upsetting to me i'm just telling you i'm just giving you the feedback right yes you are i mean it's lid trying to drink from a fire hose right Right. And I imagine that that's, I mean, it comes across as a little selfish, which is that the conversation is for my needs, not mutual benefit.
[1:35:06] Yeah, that's close to, yeah.
[1:35:11] And you do have a lot of anger.
[1:35:14] Yeah.
[1:35:15] And I'm not disagreeing with you. I'm not saying that's bad or anything like that. But I guess I'm trying to figure out anger at what. It was kind of murky with the job. It was kind of murky with some of the girls. So what do you think? I mean, do you think that the assessment of anger is accurate?
[1:35:41] I'm not sure.
[1:35:47] Okay. I won't go forward with it if you're not sure, because if it doesn't click for you, I'm just trying to feel my way forward. So if it doesn't click for you, we can move on. So that's no problem. I don't want to tell you your own experience, of course.
[1:35:59] I use anger, but I'm not sure what I'm angry at.
[1:36:08] Wait, so sorry. When I say I think you have some anger, and you said, I'm not sure, does that mean you're not sure? Sorry?
[1:36:16] I meant that I have anger. I'm angry and full of despair.
[1:36:22] Okay, so what are you angry at?
[1:36:37] When I... when I engage in conversation with people, I want something from them. It's always combat whenever I show up, and I never get what I want.
[1:36:57] I mean, everybody wants something from someone. That's why we have conversations. I mean, I'm not sure what the issue is with that. You know, if I sit down, I order a meal from a waiter, I want the meal from the waiter, and the waiter wants the pay and the tip for me, and the restaurant wants to sell me a meal, and I want to eat a meal. So conversations are all about mutual exchange of preferences and needs, and that's why we have language. That's why we talk to each other, right? Okay. So the fact that you want something from people when you talk to them, seems perfectly natural to me, but what is it that you mean? Is that bad? bad.
[1:37:31] No it's it's that i've haven't gotten what i wanted anytime i've talked to people.
[1:37:42] Well that's because you're focusing on the wrong thing to be blunt like now we're shifting to the feedback time, just you know so you are on you're all about what can i get from people i need things from people right mainly yeah okay so that's immature bullshit yep you know because what what is it you should be thinking of if you want to have sustainable relationships, mutual benefit well yeah yeah you should be thinking what can i provide this person yeah how is this person going to benefit from being in conversation with me, but you get kind of glassy eyed and hollow voiced and you just talk about yourself and then people are like well i i guess i'm not really needed for this monologue other than as a flesh prop right so uh people feel kind of invisible right because you felt invisible to your parents and then you reproduce that invisibility to others.
[1:38:41] Because your parents were never about you and what you wanted like the very first thing you told me about your father is he did all these projects and these decks and this they never asked you and you just had to do it and right so you were invisible to your parents so they didn't think of what was beneficial to you and what you preferred and what you wanted what would make you happy right your mom dumped you in daycare dumped you in summer camps and and they just would come home and they preferred watching tv to hanging out with you and your brother and your sister and having fun and enjoying your company. So your parents didn't think about what might be best for you, right?
[1:39:18] Yes, but there's a wrinkle to that. And I think it might, maybe it won't change your perspective on things, but they were the kind of parents who would give us whatever we asked for, or they would be like, oh, we did that because we thought it would be fun for you. Like for instance, they bought a boat because they thought it'd be fun to go on boat trips, trips or we would take trips to places.
[1:39:38] Without our none of this i don't know i don't know what you're talking about because the first thing you said and i'm not accusing you of being contradictory i'm just telling you why i'm confused so i asked did you ever want to do these projects with your father did you ever want the deck then you said no yes yeah okay they said that did hang on and when your parents came home would you rather they had played with you rough house with you played monopoly with you uh gone for walks played catch a ball or or tag or would Would you have rather they had fun with you?
[1:40:08] I believe that I would have...
[1:40:09] Sorry, no, no, no, just this is the time where you're getting feedback, so don't give me any speeches, just give me answers. Okay. Would you have preferred...
[1:40:17] I would have.
[1:40:18] Would you have preferred when your parents came home from work that they engage with you and have fun with you?
[1:40:23] Yes.
[1:40:23] Okay. You didn't want them to go and watch TV, right?
[1:40:27] Yes.
[1:40:28] Okay. So your parents did not do what you wanted and did not inquire as to what you wanted. so then when you say well my parents kept doing things that we want they would do anything we wanted i don't understand i.
[1:40:43] I there's a specifically if it was i need to buy it i want a thing mom can we buy this thing sure it'd be a video game or something this is.
[1:40:52] No but that's just a way of saying get lost and go play your game how is that i mean that's your that's your sad substitute for your parents not paying any attention to you right okay and.
[1:41:01] And so that doesn't that doesn't Okay.
[1:41:03] So what are we talking about? What's the wrinkle here? So your parents didn't want to spend time with you, and they bought you stuff so they wouldn't have to spend time with you. Okay.
[1:41:17] That's the feedback. That's what I needed to hear.
[1:41:19] Okay.
[1:41:20] It doesn't change anything.
[1:41:21] All right, so your parents did not show interest in you, and they did not think about what was beneficial to you in interacting with them. And that's the job of the parents, right?
[1:41:32] Yes.
[1:41:33] Okay. So you were ignored by your parents, and so you can't figure out also how to provide value back to your parents?
[1:41:46] I've tried.
[1:41:47] Okay, I get it. And so you don't know about the exchange of value?
[1:41:53] Outside of some of your work, no.
[1:41:57] Well, no, that's just watching it or listening to it I'm talking about. Okay, so let's go back to the date with the 27-year-old Catholic woman, right?
[1:42:07] Yes.
[1:42:07] It was all about you in your mind.
[1:42:10] Yes.
[1:42:11] I'm nervous, I'm this, I'm that, and you probably talked a mile a minute, and you could see that she was losing interest, but you just kept plowing on and so on, right?
[1:42:19] Mm-hmm. Right.
[1:42:20] So you didn't sit there and say, how is her life going to be better for her interaction with me? How is her life going to improve? Because that's what dating is, right? Dating is, oh, my life's better after the first date. I'll have the second date. Oh, my life's even better after that. And then eventually you just get married, right? Okay. So what benefit do you bring to a woman?
[1:42:48] And I'm not saying you don't. i'm just asking what you think why would a woman pick you out of 50 guys.
[1:42:59] I knew the question was coming but what i i don't know.
[1:43:05] Okay so you so you don't know so so then you feel like a fraud i do okay so a woman of any quality isn't going to want to go out with a guy who's lying to her about his value pretending to have value when he doesn't and doesn't know or believe that he has anything of value to offer because then he's just there for sex, or companionship or his needs not what's beneficial to her right exactly right okay okay so how do you solve the problem of not having much to offer women.
[1:43:40] Offer them something.
[1:43:42] Well, you have to have something to offer, right? Yeah. Okay. But you've spent your adult life not accumulating things to offer a woman.
[1:43:52] Offering nothing.
[1:43:52] Well, it's like some guy who's retiring who says, hey, I have no money. Well, you should have spent 40 years saving up for retirement, and I guess you didn't. Now, you're not retiring, so it's not as dire, right? But you're trying to figure out, how can I have more confidence on dates when and deep down, you don't have much to offer a woman. It's what you believe.
[1:44:13] Right? Not, yeah, I believe that. That's fair.
[1:44:19] Okay, so it's like you're trying to sell a car, but it has no seats and no engine. And you know that, and you're like, well, I'll just try and sell the car. Maybe someone will buy it, and people look at it and say, well, wait, there's no seats, no engine here. It's just a shell of a car. And you're like, oh, man, I can't believe people are just rejecting me all the time. It's terrible. What's the matter with people? I'm so angry. It's like, well, you're the one trying to sell a car with no engine and no seat. What are you getting angry about? They should be angry. So I wasted my time in a car with no engine and no seats.
[1:44:55] He's right. He's right.
[1:44:57] So you're going to accumulate value. Right?
[1:45:06] Yeah.
[1:45:07] I mean, does a 15-year pornography addiction add value to a woman?
[1:45:14] Battle scars. No, it doesn't.
[1:45:16] No, obviously not. Does a guy who focuses only on his own needs and not trying to figure out how her life is going to improve from being around him, does that add value to a woman?
[1:45:28] No.
[1:45:29] Does a broke guy add value to a woman?
[1:45:32] No, of course not.
[1:45:34] Okay. Does a guy with no particular prospects in the short run add value to a woman?
[1:45:39] Not particularly.
[1:45:41] Okay. So my big advice to you, my friend, would be stop taking shortcuts. Stop taking shortcuts. They lead nowhere. Okay, you had the urge to talk to girls when you were in your teens. What did you do?
[1:46:03] Nothing.
[1:46:04] Well, you did something. You got tennis elbow.
[1:46:07] Ah.
[1:46:09] Right? That's a shortcut, right?
[1:46:12] Right.
[1:46:14] When it came to engineering, you didn't work that hard. so that's lazy that's taking i don't know what kind of shortcut or you just rather do other things right yes okay when you took your psychology degree did you ever look up what can i do with a psychology degree no okay so you're just like well i guess this is easier than engineering i'll do that that's lazy that's like a shortcut that was it right yes Yes. And then you're like, well, I guess mom and dad can pay the bills for a while, and then I'll just play more video games and watch more porn. And that's all shortcuts, right? Rather than achieving things in the real world, you're achieving things digitally. And you're not even saying, holy shit, do I ever love video games? I'll become a professional video game player, because that's work too, right?
[1:47:07] Well, I tried that too in college, but I didn't think it was worth mentioning.
[1:47:10] Okay, so you're trying all these shortcuts, right?
[1:47:14] Yep trying it was one thing into another oh nope next thing up next thing up.
[1:47:18] Oh I want a relationship oh I'll just date some woman in the midwest and call it a relationship as opposed to trying to figure something out locally right that's another shortcut right.
[1:47:28] Yep, right that's correct.
[1:47:35] And now you're like oh I'm sure I'll make a fortune peddling skills I learned in three weeks, nope and now listen I mean real estate is a real industry people make a lot of money but I know I know it's gonna happen, you won't get what do you think is gonna happen what's gonna happen is you'll start doing it maybe you'll have a bit of success here and there but you won't dig in you won't say holy shit I'm pushing 30 I'm way behind the curve I'm gonna have to work 14 fucking hours a day for 6 months to catch up, yep you won't do that right.
[1:48:15] When you put it that way probably not.
[1:48:16] Oh yeah so you'll put some effort in maybe you'll get a bit of reward then there'll be a dry spell and then you'll just look for something else.
[1:48:28] I don't think that might happen now, but it's likely. I don't think that might happen now.
[1:48:38] But it's likely. That was statistics all over the map there.
[1:48:43] 50%, 20%. I have, every time something like this happens, I get a little bit of perspective as to why it's failed. fail. I failed in entrepreneurship because of, I didn't have the skills to pull it off. But also because I didn't, you know, like you said, three-week skills, no experience, find the curve.
[1:49:09] Well, okay. So let's say that you want to be an entrepreneur. Fine. There are some people who can really do it, but you got to read, you got to research, you read the books on business, business management, process efficiencies, like anything other than just like, Like, oh, if something came in, I'll do it.
[1:49:28] I have been since I got into the website business. All I've been doing is consuming business books, socializing books. I go back into the pickup artist, Red Pill, Manosphere stuff. Yeah, I don't know if that's ideal.
[1:49:51] Deal okay so you got into business books when you got into this web stuff right yes okay real so what business books say that the best way to make money is a skill you can learn in a couple of weeks that everyone else can learn in a couple of weeks i.
[1:50:09] None of them say that.
[1:50:11] Okay so what do you mean you're reading these business books and and applying it to your business or your business ideas or what.
[1:50:22] Not in any meaningful metric, no.
[1:50:24] Okay. So how do you make money as an entrepreneur? You've read these business books, right? How do you make money?
[1:50:30] Provide value.
[1:50:31] Okay. That's anyone would say that. Okay. But how do you provide value? What do you have to do? What's the approach that you have to take to provide value in the business world?
[1:50:47] Enlighten me.
[1:50:48] Okay. Well, you have to provide... Something better, faster, cheaper, that's needed.
[1:50:57] Right.
[1:50:57] Right. So if someone's going to do business with you, let's say you're providing some website stuff, right? Okay. How many website providers are there out there? Millions, right?
[1:51:06] Yeah.
[1:51:07] And some of them have track records going back 20 or 30 years, which means that everybody knows they can absolutely do the job. So why would they go with you? Either they know you or something like that, or they're making some non-business decision based upon your personal needs, or your brother will hire you for his business or something like that. Or you could do it better, faster, cheaper, more reliably. There's got to be something that differentiates you, right?
[1:51:33] Right.
[1:51:35] So what differentiates you?
[1:51:39] At the time, I thought it was the quality of the work and for the price that we were doing it at. It was affordable. It was good work. In fact, we were undercharging for the work that we were doing. it was just a matter of marketing but at the same time.
[1:51:53] I get that so you have a let's say you have a great product although undercharging is fine to get into the market but it's not a sustainable business model but let's say you have a product okay so there's no point having a great product if nobody knows about it right so what did you do in terms of marketing and how was that going to be funded, because if you're undercharging the product you don't have money for marketing right because you need it for your rent so then how is the marketing going to get funded.
[1:52:18] The strategy was referrals through local business networks, through like the small business networks around my area and other areas around it. And we would get referrals every so often. Actually, we're getting pretty consistent referrals, but the projects that we had taken.
[1:52:36] What does that mean when you say referral? So you would just say to other people, if you like us, tell your friends?
[1:52:42] No, no, no, no, no. The referrals is like a more of a technical term that these groups use. what it is is there's like these big groups of businesses and when they pass along a hot lead from one to another it's called a referral so instead of it being like a hey tell your friends about us it's a hey this person that i was i'm john i'm john hvac and i'm doing an hvac thing this guy wants a website i just referred him to you um get in contact with him and we would land a point why would.
[1:53:09] People refer stuff to you what's their incentive to do that.
[1:53:11] Um it's a mutual thing So there's referrals going back and forth. Oh, you're an HVAC guy? I'll refer clients if I speak to a business that needs HVAC done while you give me business for the website.
[1:53:23] Okay, and was it roughly equal in terms of them referring to you and you referring to others?
[1:53:28] Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[1:53:29] So that was actually happening?
[1:53:32] Yes, it was actually happening.
[1:53:34] Okay, so why weren't you getting more work if this referral network is working?
[1:53:42] I stopped believing in the power of the referrals when I realized that we had still, we were about to finish up this big project, which was taking up a lot of time and we didn't have anything lined up. And I said, hey, we got to run ads. And he's like, okay, but I'm busy with work right now. So we'll have to do it later. I
[1:54:17] Okay, so you've read these business books, so what do you do in that situation?
[1:54:23] My gut was to start advertising, was to take whatever money I had left and start doing advertising.
[1:54:29] Okay, but you didn't have any formal arrangement or business contract with this guy, right?
[1:54:36] Oh, no, no, no, no, no. I was a contractor, basically, at this point. I wasn't a salaried employee or anything.
[1:54:42] Oh, no, I get that. So you had no incentive to spend on the business? because you didn't own the business or any part of it, right?
[1:54:50] That is absolutely true. One of the, that is absolutely true.
[1:54:54] Okay. So he needs to advertise. He's not advertising. I guess you could write the ads and then he could pay for them. Did you suggest that?
[1:55:06] I suggested, like there's a business bank account that we could have done ads with and it would have been fine. Like I would have, I would have wrote them, copied them. I would have done.
[1:55:16] So he didn't want to pay for the ads, right?
[1:55:21] Not at that moment, yeah. No.
[1:55:23] What do you mean at that moment? At the next moment?
[1:55:26] I bet if I asked him now when things are tough, I bet if I asked him now when things are tough, he'd say yes.
[1:55:30] Okay. What's his experience in running businesses?
[1:55:35] None.
[1:55:35] Okay. So you all don't know what you're doing, really. I mean, you've read a little bit here and there, but I mean, obviously, you don't wait until you run out of business to generate new business, right?
[1:55:45] That's true.
[1:55:47] And he's got another job, right? And he's got a family?
[1:55:53] Yeah.
[1:55:54] Okay. And he doesn't have any seed capital. He doesn't have any investment. Is that right?
[1:56:00] No. Aside from his own...
[1:56:02] So this is... I mean, this is not a real business, right?
[1:56:06] I would agree.
[1:56:07] Okay.
[1:56:08] That's the vibe I got.
[1:56:13] So now you might try real estate, right?
[1:56:17] Yep same and.
[1:56:18] Did you know how much real estate like how much the average person a year makes in real estate.
[1:56:22] Somewhere between i think it was like 30 to 50 i think there was like a big agency but i.
[1:56:31] Could be wrong it obviously depends on the market but not much right.
[1:56:34] Yeah if they're with an agency um this is like an independently owned property group for commercial stuff too um so So the deal has me getting a little bit more commission, but once again, it's probably not going to be much higher than that, if I had to guess.
[1:56:51] Okay. Now, you want to make more money than that, right?
[1:56:55] Of course I want to make more money than that.
[1:56:56] Okay, so how do you make more money?
[1:57:00] If I had to answer that question, aside from not taking shortcuts.
[1:57:06] Yeah, but not taking shortcuts isn't an answer. That's just telling you what not to do, right?
[1:57:10] Exactly. It's, yeah.
[1:57:11] If I say, how do you exercise? You say, don't sit on the couch. That doesn't really answer much, right? So how do you make more money in real estate?
[1:57:19] Make more money in real estate?
[1:57:21] Yes.
[1:57:22] My strategy involves a lot of, my strategy currently involves a mix of in-person advertising with like cards and also but mixing it also with the digital marketing and advertisement because i'll have some budget and revenue for that you know i'll have some support use.
[1:57:37] You to buy or sell real estate that's the question you have to answer.
[1:57:42] Well because the commission specifically um since we're smaller um since we're not a big company we don't take like a five percent commission we take something more like 2.4 off the top of the purchase It's just so like...
[1:57:55] Okay. You have no experience negotiating. So the reason people pay 5%, not 2.4% is why? Why do they pay double the commission to some people?
[1:58:06] Because it's easy. Because it's so much easier to like...
[1:58:09] No, no, no. Oh. Why do they pay 5%? Not 2.4%.
[1:58:16] Why do they pay 5%? Why? I'd like to hear your answer.
[1:58:24] Well, it's not my answer. It's the only logical possible answer, that they're paying an extra percentage point because they want people more experienced in negotiating who are going to get them more than the difference.
[1:58:35] Yes.
[1:58:36] Right? So if you can get someone to jack up the price 10% and you're paying 5%, right, then you're still up 5%. But if you guys can only jack up the price 1% or 2%, they haven't really saved any money.
[1:58:50] Right. Right.
[1:58:52] So, if I'm coming to you and you're trying to sell me your real estate thing, first question I'm going to ask is, what if you bought and sold? Because I need to know your experience. I mean, negotiating on behalf of real estate is really complicated. Because there's, I mean, you know, negotiating in business, there's a lot of, I mean, bullshit, lies, there's a lot of bluffing, there's a lot of whatever, right? I mean, it's a game, right?
[1:59:17] Right.
[1:59:17] And so if somebody has a lot of experience in real estate, they've had enough experience to know, well, people will lowball you, but what's their real figure? And if you go too high, they'll just go with someone else. So there's a real sweet spot in there, which you have no experience getting.
[1:59:37] That's why he specifically says if you can set the appointments you can you can come with me anytime there's an appointment to close or to do contract negotiations and we'll go there together and you can watch and you can listen okay.
[1:59:49] And why is he doing.
[1:59:50] That he's got two, I couldn't tell you. He just likes me. He's an old man. He's like 70 years old.
[1:59:59] Okay. So he doesn't have kids. He wants to transfer his knowledge. Okay. So that can be a real benefit. That can be a real mentor. Okay. So the best way to learn how to make money in real estate, and I'm no expert, right? So obviously I'm just guessing here, but the best way is you have to watch people do it and then learn how to do it yourself to find that sweet spot in negotiating that's not too high and not too low. And you won't know that. I wouldn't know that in real estate. I couldn't do that for the life of me. Now, I could do it in software contracts, because I spent many years negotiating those. But you need to find a sweet spot where both, it's like when you're negotiating for a car, there's a sweet spot where, you know, it's a good price for you, it's a good price for the seller, it's fair, it's reasonable, everybody's reasonably happy that's the sweet spot right so learning that is complicated it is and it's part art form it's part instinct it's part reasoning it's part knowledge it's like it's experience and so if this guy wants the knowledge transfer to you then um so is he relying on you to set the appointments up no.
[2:01:04] He it's more like just another body on it's more like just another body on the signs like the signs will have his office number but also my agent number um but also it's just the way the way it seems is that it's to get more it's like multiplic multiplication of effort i guess is the best way to say it because.
[2:01:26] He'll take i don't know what that means just what what is the work he takes calls hang on hang on let me ask my questions what is the workflow for you like how what's the benefit that he has in making you cards and putting you on the website site.
[2:01:40] I've asked him, but he says, he just says, he just shrugs. He just says, I like, I like, I like talking to you. You're cool. We have a lot in common, he says.
[2:01:51] Okay.
[2:01:52] And he's a, he's a religious guy.
[2:01:54] And he may be looking to retire. Maybe he's looking for someone to, I had this negotiation many, many years ago. A guy was running a, um, a courier business and none of his kids wanted to run the courier business. And I ended up in touch with him and we were, uh, in, in negotiations for me to take over over the courier business but i ended up deciding to go do my master's instead so this of course is many years ago so he just may not have anyone to give his business to and he wants it to continue.
[2:02:20] That seems like it because one of his plans was that if it didn't go if his you know if he wanted to pass it off and go on vacation in two years he wouldn't have anybody to pass it on to.
[2:02:32] Right he.
[2:02:32] Mentioned that specifically so in two years he's like in two.
[2:02:35] Years maybe this guy can be a mentor for you and maybe you've lucked out on on some golden carpet and and that's great honestly but you need to figure out how to provide maximum value for this guy yes right so in general if you want to succeed the amount of work you do evens out over the course of your life okay now you've been a pretty lazy son of a bitch for most of your adult life if you don't mind me saying it frankly.
[2:03:03] I appreciate that.
[2:03:04] I mean, that's fair, right? And that makes sense, because if you've been working really hard and you were still in this position, that would be pretty terrible, right?
[2:03:11] Yeah, it would be very... my nihilism would be quite high.
[2:03:15] My muscles are strangely weak. Do you ever work out? No.
[2:03:18] No.
[2:03:19] Well, that's good news, because if your muscles are strangely weak and you work out, you probably have some big problem with your body, right?
[2:03:25] Yes.
[2:03:27] So, your parents were lazy...
[2:03:31] Right?
[2:03:32] Because they didn't parent.
[2:03:33] Yes. Not at all.
[2:03:35] So your parents were lazy bastards, and that kind of transferred down to you being kind of a lazy bastard.
[2:03:42] Yeah.
[2:03:42] And that's good news, in my opinion. So now you have to work all of the stuff you didn't work. You know how it is in life. It's pay me now or pay me later, right? You just choose your suffering. Now, you didn't choose the suffering of hard work when you were younger, so now you have the suffering of anxiety and worry right that.
[2:04:03] Was the decision yes.
[2:04:05] And listen I mean you had a lot of fun playing the video games, right and obviously pornography was easier than dating right so let's not just immediately oh my god so you got some benefits at the time video games are fun no question right so you had your fun and now you got to get to work, and so what that means is are you going to do the real estate thing is that the next thing for you.
[2:04:38] I'm torn between the the fact that my entrepreneurial track record is so like the.
[2:04:45] No no no this is mentoring you, are you willing to mentor you for for you know whatever reason doesn't really matter but he's willing to mentor you right yes okay so you're learning entrepreneurship you're learning running at the feet of a master right this guy's 70 and he's been doing this for decades i assume right yes okay a long time so he wants to transfer knowledge and whatever to you so so take it, all right but now this means you got to work your 10 12 14 hours a day.
[2:05:17] Put it in.
[2:05:17] Well i mean and put it in and learn and when you feel like giving up you just say well, nope. Right? Get back to it, right?
[2:05:27] Right.
[2:05:27] And so you just, you're making up for lost time.
[2:05:32] That's right.
[2:05:33] And it's the only way to redeem the wasted time is to work harder later. So now you've got to read about real estate. You've got to read about contract law. You've got to study real estate. You've got to maybe go to seminars and you've got to shadow this guy if If he's willing to have you do it, you've got to take him out for dinner and just pick his brain and what about this and what about that. And, you know, you've just got to show massive enthusiasm in what it is that he's doing. And you have to stun him with how quickly you're learning.
[2:06:05] I'm shadowing them tomorrow.
[2:06:07] Excellent. And then you come home, and there'll be that little fucking keyboard and mouse that wants to lure you into digital nonsense. And you'd be like, nope, I'm picking up another book. Nope, I'm picking up The Art of the Deal. Nope, I'm picking up this. Whatever it is that I have to do, you can negotiate anything by Herb Cohen. Not the most moral book in the world, but a very good book on negotiation. So you just got to grit your teeth and just do the work now. And that's what differentiates you, is you're just willing to do the work. right what is it that differentiated me why did people listen to me at my peak i was one of the top podcasts in the world so why did people listen to me rather than other people because i was a, foolhardy idiot who rushed in where angels feared to tread right i mean no because i took on the controversial topics that you couldn't get anywhere else that were really important right yeah so and i just i just bounced from controversy to controversy and it was quite an exciting ride I have no regrets, and it was the right thing for me to do at the time, but I was willing at least to take those risks to provide that value and also showing up just how not courageous other people were, right?
[2:07:15] Correct.
[2:07:16] So I had to differentiate. How do you differentiate yourself? Okay, so how are you going to differentiate yourself? Because there are some people in the real estate business, they grew up with their parents in the real estate business, and they have a decade worth of experience when they're 30, right? So how are you going to compete with a decade worth of experience? Well, you're going to have to catch up, right?
[2:07:37] Play catch up. Yeah, that would be it.
[2:07:40] And playing catch up means stop self-pitying, right? Because your panic is saying, get in motion, get your ass in gear, stop wasting time, stop being angry at the world. Like, you understand, nobody owes you a fucking thing, right? Nobody. The girl doesn't owe you time. Nobody owes you a paycheck. Nobody, I mean, your parents, and I'm really sad about this, like I just, you know, I mean, it's a bit of a tough talk here, but I'm really sad about what happened to you as a child. I mean, you were so not invested in, it was truly heartbreaking and tragic and sorrowful. So that's really awful. I'm incredibly angry at your parents for being so lazy and inattentive. And it's like, okay, if you want to not talk to your kids, it's a pretty simple solution. Just don't have kids. But once you have kids...
[2:08:21] That's what I told them.
[2:08:22] Yeah. Once you have kids, oh, yeah, correct. So I'm mad at them, and I have great sympathy for what happened to you as a child, but you're pushing 30 now, right? Which means that...
[2:08:34] Something's my fault.
[2:08:35] I'm sorry?
[2:08:36] I was going to say, yeah, it's a little bit of my responsibility now that I'm pushing 30.
[2:08:40] No, it's all of your responsibility. It's not a little bit anymore. It's all of your responsibility. Everything in your life has, and it has been for many years, everything in your life is 100% your responsibility, your fault, your benefit. it. So the reason that you avoid responsibility is because it makes you feel bad. But if you accept responsibility and take the required actions, responsibility makes you feel great. You've only seen the downside of responsibility, which is the avoidance. I'm offering you the upside of responsibility, which is the pride.
[2:09:13] Yes, that makes sense.
[2:09:16] So, yeah, it's time to put away childish things. It's time to grow up quickly, and it's time to get to work. And if you get to work, you can redeem, and you can actually be further ahead. You know, people who start off further behind, who panic, can often end up way further ahead than people who've just been coasting or moving forward on less momentum. momentum so there's absolutely nothing wrong with where you are unless you keep taking shortcuts in which case you're just going to shortcut yourself into complete irrelevance and probably further unhappiness so if you're going to do the real estate thing and this may be a unique opportunity if you're interested in real estate if you're interested in that but you've got to let go of the anger towards people be angry at your parents sure i think that makes sense but you've got to let go of the anger towards the world and you've got to stop treating the world like they're your parents. If people treat you unjustly, that's fine. They can treat you unjustly and you can just move on. Maybe you should acquit that job rather than wait to get fired. I don't know. But just being resentful is pointless. Be angry at the right people to the right measure and you'll find that the resentment leaves you in the rest of your life. But if you're not angry at the right people, it bleeds over into everything else.
[2:10:31] That makes sense.
[2:10:33] So yeah, get yourself, you know, maybe when you're shadowing this guy tomorrow, right? I'm telling you, get a little, and he's old school, right? So get a little notepad. Old school. Like get a little notepad and a pencil.
[2:10:46] I brought one, I was writing notes. Good, write this shit down.
[2:10:49] Say to him, okay, what are the 10 best books you've ever read on real estate? Who was your mentor on real estate? And then if he tells you, oh, it was Billy Joe Bob, whatever his name is, in real estate, Then you go and read every single book you can find from that guy, and then you go back and you tell him, hey, I read everything from this guy, and he's going to be delighted, and he's going to want to share more information with you. So you just get in there like a remora and just suck the knowledge out of his brain, and he'll be thrilled to pass it along.
[2:11:19] I'm more blessed than I thought because he can get meetings with these people. He can talk to them and we can have lunch with some of these higher-up people.
[2:11:29] I know this may be you know the god's grace landing on your forehead man this may be just a part of the clouds that gives you a direction but this is time to to make up for all of the shortcuts and all the laziness that you've been doing since you were in your mid-teens so you got a good 15 years of semi-faffin and now it's like okay that was a good long rest now time to get to work now it's time to hustle like seriously hustle because i tell you man i can outwork just about bad anybody even at my age and out working is the thing like out working is the absolute thing if you're just willing to go further if you're just willing to do more to go further to say yes to get things done without resentment right i i worked well no this morning i went to a funeral this morning i'm doing a show with you this afternoon and we're going to do a couple hours of live stream tonight.
[2:12:24] Right so and i also spent a couple of hours doing some various admin stuff so i've just worked and then you know i've obviously worked with my i've got my daughter still at home you know i spend time with my wife got friends right so i just willing to work and the willingness to work and just no shortcuts put in the time realize that you're incredibly lucky to have somebody who's willing to transfer decades of knowledge to your uh brain and also that he's yeah that he's willing he sees a potential in you that you probably don't see in yourself and I'm encouraging you to explore that too and just say work is going to be tough you're going to feel resentful you're going to feel upset because it's a muscle you need to develop once you have that muscle you can move the entire world if you don't have that muscle it's tough to move a cup of coffee so that's my sort of suggestion as a whole.
[2:13:13] That has put some valuable perspective on, That's valuable.
[2:13:22] Good. Good. All right. Well, will you keep me posted about how things are going?
[2:13:27] Absolutely. I'm a donor. I'll probably be on the live streams. I'll probably be hanging out in the chat and stuff. But I mean, I guess my last point, my last thing I want to say is just thanks for all your help. And I don't want to say faith. My belief is that it comes naturally, right? Am I going to just, this is going to, if I participate and I'm working and I'm, and I change the way I do things and I'm feeling less resentment, I'm so in my own head. Do I really have to think so much? Do I have to think a lot? Do I have to think so much?
[2:14:06] If you shift your focus on what benefits you to what benefits others, your life changes immeasurably.
[2:14:17] Gotcha.
[2:14:17] So you think too much about yourself because you're trying to figure out what you can get and if you're going to get it and if you're going to be rejected and if you're going to be hurt and if you're going to be neglected and if people are going to avoid you and if they like you and it's all about you. And nobody really wants to be around that. Right? Because it's greedy and it's kind of selfish. And I don't mean this when you were a kid, right? It's perfectly understandable, right? Because you're just trying to live on scraps, right? But if you instead wake up in the morning and say, okay, how can I benefit others? How can I benefit this old guy? How can I show my appreciation? How can I benefit these clients? How can I benefit some woman in my life, right? How can I benefit others? Gets you out of your own head, gets you out of neurosis, gets you out of your anxiety, just how can I benefit others? How can I benefit others? That's the way that I work in my life, and I got to tell you, I think it works out pretty well. And if you just say, rather than what do I need, what can I provide? Now, you say, ah, yes, but there's going to be people who exploit you. And it's like, eh, but first of all, it's better to be exploited than to exploit others, number one. And number two, if you're generous with how you help others, it becomes very evident to you when people aren't generous in return, and then you can just move on, right? It's not about being exploited. It's just about, you know, if I lend money to my friends, and then one day I need to borrow money, and they won't lend me anything, then I just don't lend them anymore, right? I've understood that, right? So it is actually, it's a great self-protection to be generous as long as you're monitoring what comes back.
[2:15:47] Right.
[2:15:49] All right, man. I'm going to take a bit of a break before my next show. And I really appreciate your time today. And I hope you'll keep me posted about how it's going.
[2:15:56] I appreciate you. I will be in contact maybe. Well, definitely, but I don't know exactly when.
[2:16:02] Yeah, whenever you can. But you'll be busy. So whenever you can.
[2:16:06] Yes have a good afternoon take care bye.
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