0:04 - Wildfire's Wrath
1:28 - Loss and Devastation
2:48 - Rebuilding After the Ashes
5:29 - Navigating New Realities
9:09 - Emotional Processing
10:26 - Community and Support
13:00 - A Chance to Redesign
25:16 - The Value of Knowledge
36:10 - Embracing Change
43:39 - Philosophical Reflections
56:59 - Understanding Relationships
1:11:28 - Grieving Expectations
1:18:06 - Finding Hope in Loss
The conversation begins with a caller sharing the traumatic experience of losing his home in a wildfire while he was away at a church retreat. The conversation unfolds as he describes how, during his absence, his wife became increasingly alarmed by rising smoke levels, leading her to evacuate to her mother’s house. Despite reaching out to neighbors who attempted to fight the spreading flames, they were ultimately unsuccessful, and the fire consumed their home, leaving them bereft of nearly all their belongings by the time they returned.
The caller expresses deep sorrow, noting that they lost almost everything they owned, including significant sentimental items such as wedding dresses, books, and cherished possessions. He particularly laments the loss of his books, which served as a personal archive of his thoughts, notes, and engagement with the literature he had been studying over the years, especially as a history podcast host. He acknowledges the pain of knowing these records of his intellectual journey—his marked insights and reflections—are gone forever.
Stefan, the host, empathetically responds, exploring the financial aspects of the situation. The caller reassures him that they have robust insurance coverage and are receiving support from their church community and donations from friends and strangers alike. Despite the grim circumstances surrounding their loss, he expresses relief that they are not facing financial ruin, which allows them to focus on rebuilding their lives.
As the conversation progresses, the caller expresses uncertainty about the future and the complex emotions related to the experience, revealing the strain of navigating his wife’s well-being and their family’s recovery process. He seeks guidance on how to approach this emotionally turbulent period and reflects on how the fire might offer lessons about attachment to material possessions. The ongoing discussion highlights the interplay between grief, community support, and the philosophical lessons one can draw from adversity, leading to a deeper examination of what it means to lose significant material goods.
Stefan guides the caller through these themes and prompts him to reflect on the value of community support, especially in light of the recent tragedy. They discuss the potential for rebuilding not only their home but also reimagining their lives in the wake of the disaster. More than just a space to live, the discussion hints at the emotional and psychological aspects of establishing a home anew, including opportunities for redesign and personal expression in the new build, as the couple considers future family plans.
A reflective tone permeates the conversation as Stefan encourages the caller to find strength in the support of their community and the minor luxuries that arise from setbacks—like being able to design a new kitchen or reengage with philosophical inquiries after such loss. The nuances of their discussions navigate the sentiments of loss juxtaposed with hope for future stability and growth, prompting the caller to engage in a profound reflection on the intangible elements of human connection.
Throughout the call, they address the impact of philosophical education and how it shapes one's worldview, especially during trying times. The caller reveals insights about how much he has changed since diving deep into philosophy and history, noting that the fire has caused him to confront the reality of his relationships with his parents and friends, who may not share the same depth of interest in these matters. This exploration culminates in a poignant acknowledgment of his past connectedness with literature—symbolized through the notes he lost—and his current emotional landscape, which has shifted due to both personal loss and communal support.
In closing, the conversation shifts to reflect on unresolved relationships, particularly with the caller’s parents, who seemingly show little interest in his philosophical pursuits. Stefan suggests that this lack of engagement may represent a limitation in their affection or empathy towards him and that accepting this reality could mitigate future disappointment. The call wraps up with a shared hope for the caller to weave lessons from these experiences into a narrative of resilience, as he contemplates the evolution of his family life and the potential for new beginnings, even amid grief.
[0:00] Yeah. Um, let's see. Well, this was last Friday. So this was a week ago.
[0:04] Um, my wife and I lived in this house out in the country, um, in the, I'll just say in the central U S. Um, and, uh, well, a wildfire came through. Um, I was out of town, which made it worse. I was, um, with some guys from church and a, uh, or I was supposed to be at a men's retreat, um for our church in the next state over like five hours away um so i was out there um, wildfire came through yeah and um my wife i start started getting calls from my wife on the way out there um she said you know there's i'm starting to see a lot of smoke like i'm getting a little bit nervous it's not super bad yet so i told her excuse me um so i told her you know just keep an eye on it i'll keep an eye on the emergency um emergency alerts and stuff like that online i didn't see anything immediately in our area so i thought at first it was like, you know smoke from other fires around us that wasn't immediately next to us because that can happen yeah so um so then a couple hours later i get another call from her saying the smoke's getting worse um i'm getting really nervous now i don't feel like it's safe here so i said you know, um go ahead and you know if you don't feel safe there get out you know go to your mom's.
[1:29] Um her mom lives in in uh in the city like an hour away from us we're out in the country or we were um so she got out and then so later that night um i started getting calls from my neighbors saying it burned your chicken coop um it's up next to your house like getting in the door like one of them was trying to fight the fire both of them were actually over there at different times trying to fight the fire and um yeah i was getting calls from my neighbors just you know giving me updates on the situation like i'm trying to put it out um it's getting worse i don't think i can get it under control and ultimately they were not able to stop it so, it got up in there got up in the walls and got up in the ceiling insulation and, yeah took the whole thing out so as soon as as soon as i found out it was threatening the house directly we were headed back you know we turned around and booked it back home but we were still five hours away so by the time we got there it was already pretty much done burning so um, yeah that was i i can pretty definitively say that was the worst day of my life so far wow.
[2:49] Okay, so give me the list of all the things that are vaporized, gone, damaged, beyond repair.
[2:58] Yeah, well, basically everything we owned. So I had a couple changes of clothes with me for the weekend trip, some toiletries. My wife was able to save, fortunately, our box full of important paperwork like insurance and mortgage paperwork and social security cards and all that.
[3:20] Um so that was you know good thinking on her part um but other than that it was like everything and uh so like the thing i'm most upset about losing is my books like i had probably a hundred books in there that were all when i read books i mark them up i like underline things and write in the margins and do all that so i can replace the books but i can't ever get back my record of what i was thinking when i read the books so that's a that's tough to lose um there was also you know lots of sentimentally valuable stuff in there like my wife's wedding dress my my wedding suit um a bunch of other wedding related stuff um you know gifts from people that we've gotten over the years um besides all the you know all the furniture the bed the the all the appliances like everything in there was totally destroyed and your chickens all but one of them were um were gone we found any other any other pets So... We had two dogs, actually, that both made it.
[4:41] They were okay.
[4:43] And we also have, we live on 20 acres out there, and we have a small herd of cows. So all the cows made it, and the dogs. But all but one of the chickens got toasted.
[4:55] All but one of the chickens, right?
[4:56] All but one of them, yeah.
[4:58] Okay. All right. Photos, other documents, books, writing. You said the books, of course, but writing or any journals, diaries, It's like anything else that was sort of major that is irreplaceable.
[5:12] Yeah, I had notebooks full of notes on the books I read. I have a podcast, a history podcast. So I had a lot of books that I was reading for that. Notebooks full of notes on those. Like that kind of thing. So, yeah.
[5:29] Okay. All right. And how long ago was this?
[5:36] A week ago.
[5:37] Week ago i'm of course i'm incredibly sorry that's this is a good it's devastating i i completely.
[5:42] Yeah it's the it's the most devastating thing that's ever happened to me in my life like it's it's surreal right right that to even think about like i'm not even, i'm not it hasn't really even sunk in yet that you know life is just completely different now.
[6:00] So i mean obviously financially speaking you have the insurance and you can rebuild i guess over time is that right.
[6:07] Yeah yeah we're actually so we we were insured really well on this house um and we're getting a lot of help from our our church parish um and my employer is helping me out a lot which is nice and um like our we we're getting like tens of thousands of dollars in donations from people we barely even know sometimes like friends and family just you know sharing out donation requests on our behalf like and it's um that part of it is a huge relief to not be in money trouble during all this like we're gonna have plenty of money to do what we need to do and rebuild so that part that part is a huge relief right.
[6:56] So the rebuilding part i assume that if there was a big bunch of fires then rebuilding is going to take a time and be expensive because everybody's trying to do it at the same time right.
[7:09] Yeah, that's true.
[7:11] So do you have a time frame or have you contacted anyone? Or do you, I mean, when do you get a roof over your head again?
[7:20] Well, we're staying at the house of a guy that we know from church. He actually, he's a retired doctor. Like he has multiple houses and he's not staying in this one. So we're staying in his place for the time being. Um, insurance does give us money for, uh, temporary housing. Like that's part of our coverage. So, um, we're good. We're good on a roof over our head temporarily, but as far as rebuilding the old house, I, I really couldn't say how long that's going to take. I haven't even started the process of contacting contractors and all that. So, yeah, um, we did, I did go out there and start cleaning up a little bit. Um, but yeah, I don't really know how long it's going to take to rebuild.
[8:09] Right okay and kids.
[8:12] One daughter um she's uh just over a year old oh.
[8:18] Okay okay and uh obviously she's fine she was with you guys right.
[8:22] Yeah yeah um my wife got her out so that's that's the most important thing is that they were both okay yeah.
[8:29] The day could have been a whole lot worse right.
[8:32] Yes absolutely right okay.
[8:36] All right. And what's your major question? I certainly have my thoughts, but it's your conversation to direct. So what's the major areas I can help you with?
[8:48] Well, I thought, first of all, I thought I could see if philosophy maybe could unburn my house, first of all. But besides that, I figured you would be the guy who knows. and let's let's let's put that.
[9:05] On the side burner for a moment and let's just let's assume that that's a plan b and what's plan a.
[9:09] Yeah yeah um well i guess i'm just looking for like, i'm trying to wrap my mind around this new situation and figure out how what my mindset should be going forward how i should handle um making sure my wife is okay and making sure that we're in good shape as far as planning goes for rebuilding like this is totally uncharted territory for me and i'm not um i'm very uncertain about the future let's put it that way right.
[9:45] Right okay so is your major the major ways in which i can help you is to try to help emotionally process this devastating fire.
[10:00] Yes. Yeah, absolutely.
[10:02] You are a Christian man?
[10:05] Yes.
[10:06] So my understanding is that you have to try and find the good in everything that happens and the lessons and the growth in everything that happens, right?
[10:16] Right.
[10:18] So just off the top of my head... You're getting a real sense of how much you're loved in the community, right?
[10:27] Yes, absolutely, we are.
[10:29] You wouldn't have that other one.
[10:30] I can't imagine what this would be like if we didn't have any friends. It would be much more devastating.
[10:40] Right. So, seeing the community pulled together is an absolutely beautiful thing. I mean the power of faith the power of community the power of love for you and your family the power of generosity you're forging relationships here they're going to last the rest of your life, so that's a pretty powerful thing right?
[11:06] Yeah yes it is.
[11:08] Now again it's not like we want these bad things to happen but our challenge is to find the good in the bad otherwise we're just at the mercy of every bad thing and can't find anything positive, right?
[11:21] Mm-hmm.
[11:23] The house, you bought the house from someone else originally, right?
[11:29] Yes.
[11:30] So you get to rebuild it exactly as you want. Was the house big enough if you want more kids? Yes.
[11:40] Yeah, it was, if we had, I mean, we do plan to have more kids. I would say it was big enough to where we could comfortably have four or five kids. But if we had any more than that, I think we would probably want a bigger place.
[11:57] I mean, like most houses that you buy rather than build, I assume that there were things that you wanted to change.
[12:03] Yeah, I can think of a few things.
[12:06] I mean, doesn't your wife, I'm going to get all kinds of sexist here, but doesn't your wife get to design an entirely new kitchen?
[12:13] Yes, she does.
[12:14] I mean, she said that very thing to me. Women terraforming kitchens is something that men cannot comprehend.
[12:22] Yeah, yeah.
[12:22] I mean, it's fine. She can't comprehend why I need another microphone for my studio. That's fine. But I can't comprehend why the backsplash is so offensive to my wife's sensibilities. That's just a cosmic mystery that God himself would shake before. So, your wife gets to design a whole new kitchen, which is apparently what some women live for for quite some time. If I ever want to have an exciting conversation with my wife, I say to her, so what do you think of the kitchen as it stands? Right? Every list, everything, every problem is detailed. And I'm like, to me, I grew up in a crappy government apartment. So, for me, everything that's not a crappy government apartment is a paradise.
[13:01] But apparently things can be but you know as long as she keeps her improve everything to the kitchen and not me I think that's good that's probably a good thing so you can do all of that, and your daughter while quite young right depending on how long this takes she might get a chance to have some input into the kind of room she gets right, maybe she wants bunk beds built into the wall maybe like in terms of cool things that you could do that would be kind of fun for her right yeah So, love of the community, getting a chance to redesign everything, and, you know, it's an easy thing to say, but it is important to remember that it's just stuff.
[13:50] Yeah it's.
[13:51] Just stuff now the books i.
[13:53] Get that's yeah go ahead on that note um this is something i've been thinking about over the last week is like you know our we um well we went to church last sunday and our priest was talking about this a little bit and talking about how god allows these things to happen and um i've been thinking part of it could be god teaching me to be less attached to stuff um everything gets thrown out.
[14:21] Man everything gets thrown out.
[14:23] Yeah eventually right and the other the other thought i had was um so on saturday um this happened last friday on saturday um there were a bunch of people our whole area was hit pretty hard by this like there were hundreds of homes burned to the ground yeah and um there were one of the one of the small towns near us um there were people you know in the like a gas station parking lot handing out you know food and clothes for people affected by the fires and so i stopped by and got some stuff for us because we're all you know mostly fresh out of clothes or we were a week ago and um and that got me thinking i'm like you know there's a lot of stuff in that house that i cared about and i really didn't want to lose but on the other hand there's a lot of junk that i really didn't care about you had a spring cleaning from.
[15:15] The fiery wind.
[15:16] Yeah and i'm and i'm like you know how many clothes did i have stashed away in some closet that i could have donated to want something like this at some point and i just never made the effort to do it and it's like all that stuff is gone too like stuff i didn't care about yeah it's it's a relief of a burden in a way.
[15:39] So worst day of your life that's a powerful statement and it seems to me that if if a fire where you're fully insured is the worst day of your life you've lived a pretty charmed life i'm not i'm not kidding about that.
[16:00] So, I mean, your wife's healthy, you're healthy, your daughter's healthy, you have insurance, you can rebuild, and in some ways it will be better. It's your house now. It's just a house you had before. Now it's your house going forward, right? And you're forging stronger bonds with people in the community. You're learning the power of faith and generosity and charity, which I'm sure you will pay forward going forward. I'm not saying you haven't in the past, but it'll probably be even more important. Going forward and it is always the question and it's a very foundational question when bad things happen the question is do you compare it to it not happening or what could be worse, right like if you get sick let's say you get sick and you have a path to getting better right, Well, do you compare getting sick to not getting sick, or do you compare getting sick but getting better to getting sick and not getting better?
[17:12] And that's the question so if if you're going to compare things to nothing bad happening everything bad is really bad if you compare bad things happening to could be worse there's a buoyancy to that if that makes sense.
[17:31] Yeah i see what you're saying.
[17:33] So do you do you think that you compare this to well if this just hadn't happened at all this is a debt negative which of course it is right or do you say holy crap man if you're gonna have a fire nobody got hurt nobody got killed and we're insured and thank goodness we did the right and prudent thing and bad things are gonna happen in life you know it's like if you have uh you know like I'm, I'm in my fifties. So there are occasional, you know, twinges and, you know, whatever negative things that can happen. Uh, nothing, nothing major, but you know, just cavalcade of like little things. Oh, I, I, my cough is a little tender or, you know, whatever. Right. And, and so if I say, well, geez, compared to my twenties, I'm a wreck, right? I mean, then I'm going to, then I have a standard called my twenties and everything is just a massive decline from that, so to speak. Right. Or if I say, you know, man for 58, I'm I've got no chronic conditions. I've got no arthritis. I've got no back pain. 40% of men have like back pain. Right. And so, you know, pretty, pretty good. Right. So there is a huge amount in life that is depending on the big question of philosophy, which is compared to what? Right. So if you, I mean, you've had this terrible fire, of course, compared to not having this terrible fire, it's a disaster.
[18:59] However, there's other comparisons to be made.
[19:04] Yeah.
[19:09] So have you had not being insured or having not being insured, people dying, people getting sick? I mean, it can happen even after the fire. You're in there poking around and a wall collapses. I don't know what it looks like, but, you know, something like they could land on you or whatever. Right. Or you had a beloved dog that died or both. I guess you said two that made it. Right. Uh so you weren't you weren't there and your wife and daughter got out totally fine, so the disaster missed everything but the stuff, so have you had a charmed life have you been peculiarly lucky i mean what decade of life are you in?
[20:01] I'm in my early thirties.
[20:03] Early thirties. Okay. So you're a relatively young man. So have you had a pretty charmed life that, that this is the worst thing?
[20:11] I mean, I, I think so. I think, I think, well, I think the reason I called it the worst thing is because I was making the comparison to it not happening. Like you were just talking about, Like I wasn't comparing it to, you know, what could have been worse. Um, but I mean, now that you put it that way, it seems like it's not really the worst thing.
[20:36] It's like, well, no, because you would have had that comparison to other things as well. Right. Like everything would be compared to nothing bad happening.
[20:47] Yeah, I see.
[20:50] So if this is the worst thing that's happened to you, then that would be compared to other. It would be compared to, like, let's say that you lost a dog when you were 12, but you would also compare that to not losing your dog when you were 12 or something like that, right? So if you've had the standard that perfection is the key and everything that deviates that is just this massive net negative then you would have had that standard as a whole in your.
[21:18] Life if.
[21:19] That makes sense.
[21:20] Yeah that makes sense so.
[21:23] What let give me the second and third bet and i'm not like i'm certainly not saying this isn't the worst thing that's happened to you i'm not saying that at all what i am saying though.
[21:35] Is what are the other things that.
[21:37] You're comparing it to.
[21:40] That's a good question um, there's my daughter thank you for telling me i thought your wife just.
[21:50] Had a very high voice.
[21:56] Oh um i i would have trouble ranking other things to be honest i mean there's nothing really comparable as far as like if the comparison is this happened versus this didn't happen like there's nothing really i can think of that is even close to losing a house in a fire, that i've experienced like i mean i've had a couple of bad breakups in my early early to mid twenties. Um, but those were like, I wouldn't even put those in the same category really.
[22:36] Yeah, I can certainly understand that. So, uh, you've not had any health issues that are significant. People you love don't have health issues that are significant. So, I mean, you've seen, seem to have dodged some bullets, which is, I mean, not a lot of bad things.
[22:52] It's just a good thing. Yeah, I've had, I've had a couple of pretty, pretty serious injuries. Um, like I, I tore a muscle, like, like tore a major muscle one time lifting. I'm a, I was a, I was competitive and, and strong man for a while. Um, and I, I had a pretty major injury. So I guess that's kind of the same category. Um, but no chronic health issues or anything like that. And I, I don't think anyone I know has chronic health issues either. And so on yeah they're in good health and grandparents, Um, well, only, I only have one surviving grandparent left. Um, I was never particularly close to any of my grandparents, but, um, one of them died when I was probably 10 or 11, I would say. Um, and two more have passed on since one of them's in her nineties. Now my grandma's in her mid to late nineties, so she won't be too much longer either.
[23:55] Good. Okay. And so your parents are together and in good health, and you've had good health. I don't really count the torn muscle. I mean, because that's just the risk of exercise, right? That's not bad luck to some degree. That's just, you know, natural risk, right? So this is your first major disaster?
[24:20] Yes.
[24:21] Right. Okay. So that makes sense to me. Because, and tell me about your relationship with the books.
[24:33] With the, sorry, just a second. Can you wash her for a little bit? Thank you.
[24:43] I love those sounds. I really do. I miss that age. It's where they're first discovering their voice. I love that.
[24:50] Yeah, she's just lately gotten really good at walking, too, which is, a treat like it's it's super cute to watch them waddle around with their little toddler legs like it's the cutest thing yeah.
[25:05] It's like more vertical motion than horizontal right.
[25:08] Yeah yeah um i'm sorry what was your question the.
[25:13] Books tell me about your relationship use the hundred books you said that with the notes.
[25:17] Yeah um i've been well this has been going on for, probably close to 10 years now i've been getting i've you know gotten into philosophy and reading, all the classics like you know homer and plato and aristotle and all this stuff so i had all of those but those are the books i'm talking about besides the one i'm reading for my podcast, um but yeah it's it's all those kind of like i was almost i had this this big old volume of the complete works of plato and i had read almost the entire thing like i was i had like probably 50 pages of it left to get through and then so that was lost in the fire and um you know there's all my notes in there like that's the that's the part that's not replaceable is my own record of, what I was thinking when I read them before.
[26:16] Okay. Now, you've absorbed the works though, right? I mean, they're in your head.
[26:23] Yeah.
[26:25] Because philosophy is not on a bookshelf, right? Philosophy is in your mind that you act on, right?
[26:31] Yeah. I mean, they're in my head to some extent. I mean, a lot of them are pretty hard books like difficult books and i don't know how you know i'm sure i didn't understand one percent of what's in there um oh i doubt that no no no more than one.
[26:47] Percent more than one percent okay let me ask you this so how many hours a week did you spend going back and rereading the notes that you had in these books.
[27:00] Oh not very much just probably less than an hour a week if that okay.
[27:07] So like a tiny tiny fraction of a percent of your week was spent not reading the books but your notes, and uh in what circumstances would you go back and read notes in your books.
[27:25] Um if i was reading the same book again or the same chapter or the same dialogue or or whatever if i read the same one again i would see the notes i wrote the last time and be reminded what i was thinking when i read it the first time but if you or if i'm or if i'm uh or if i'm discussing it with a group like because i did that a lot you know discussing it with a group of friends i would look back through and see what i wrote down going into the discussion to see you know what i wanted to talk about or questions i had that kind of stuff you.
[27:59] Only understood one percent of it so wouldn't your notes be mostly wrong.
[28:02] Maybe no.
[28:05] No i mean you you went back and read them.
[28:07] Yeah i mean they might they might be wrong or i don't know like i'm.
[28:16] Just going with the 1% you told me.
[28:19] Yeah. Yeah.
[28:23] I mean, of what value is it to go back and read stuff that you got significantly wrong? I mean, if you're going to read the books, right, and you're going to reread them, then you're going to get more out of it the second time, right? Okay, good. So you get more out of it the second time, you get a greater accuracy, in which case your prior notes were wrong, or at least incomplete.
[28:44] Yeah.
[28:45] Does that make sense? So of what value was incomplete and wrong notes?
[28:52] Not very much i guess.
[28:54] So help me understand why this book thing is like oh my god the books i don't care about the chickens but the books yeah i mean from a practical standpoint i'm just why i was a little surprised when you i mean it wasn't like these that you had five manuscripts of of novels or books that that are irreplaceable and we're all destroyed like that, but but largely erroneous notes that you read on a first time through a difficult text i'm because you can get them you can go you can go get the book on play-doh again, yeah it won't be clogged up with all of your bad takes from the past if i understand this correctly.
[29:32] Sure yes you're right.
[29:33] See here it's like your daughter's like see here daughter i got this wrong hang on but wait wait on the next page i got i made five notes four of them totally wrong one of them kind of wrong but not totally well maybe the grammar's all right but here uh no notes at all next page one thing that's wrong and here on this page page 143 uh i got something that i think is right.
[30:03] Yeah well when you put it that way.
[30:05] I can't believe all the things i got wrong have been lost to fire you should burn those voluntarily yeah rid of the evidence, I might have done you a favor As far as that goes.
[30:23] Well like I said You know, If this is God teaching me To be less attached to material things Then I guess that's included.
[30:34] So but tell me what I'm still trying to understand your relationship To the notes, If you got Most of it wrong Or at least incomplete, is it that you liked having the evidence that you'd read the books? Like if somebody came to your bookshelf, flipped open Plato's Republic and saw all these notes, they'd be like, ah, he did read it. Whereas if it's empty, like, ah, he didn't read this.
[31:02] I think it's more of a... Like a... To me, marking up a book is like... I don't think you... I don't know it's almost like evidence of ownership kind of thing like i don't think you necessarily really own a book like you can buy a book but as far as like, ownership over the material goes i don't think you really own it until you've read it and the notes are like evidence of that or a record of um, i don't know does that make any sense.
[31:43] No i get where you're coming from and i'm trying to follow why ownership of something you own is important, oh you didn't steal the books right no okay because stealing philosophy books well unless you're a communist that's fine um but so uh you already own the books they're already in your house why do you need to in a sense pee on the books to to establish your ownership coyote style or something i'm trying to sort of follow that well.
[32:11] I i guess i've never really thought about that before uh i'm not really sure.
[32:17] Well let's ask what what is the purpose of the book why do you have it why do you read it what's the purpose to.
[32:25] Understand the world to understand philosophy.
[32:28] Well for each individual book it's to absorb and understand the arguments within it yes okay now yeah.
[32:38] Okay so so okay that's that's a good point i guess part of the part of, i guess this has more to do with the process of making the notes than with having the notes it's like when i'm working through a book and i'm trying to understand the arguments in it i make notes and that forces me to put my thoughts into words and write them down on paper and that helps with understanding the arguments but i guess in that case it's more about the process of making the notes helping you to understand the arguments and then for that purpose you could just throw the notes away.
[33:14] Afterwards and you would still get the.
[33:17] Value out of.
[33:17] The understanding the understanding of the argument is in you the the book has passed from like words on a page vision in your eyes thoughts in your mind notes in your hand and the whole process of that machinery is to produce an understanding within your mind that remains in your mind, right the books have been transferred to your mind through the age of the notes right and and so when if the books are gone the understanding still remains, right and the purpose of the books is to transfer the knowledge of the arguments to your mind and the purpose of the notes is to help that, but that's been done. Now, if you need to go back and revisit it, then you want a fresh page is almost better.
[34:03] Because otherwise, you're not distracted by the wrong stuff I thought before.
[34:08] Well, yeah. Or even if it's not wrong, it's maybe just a particular perspective you had in the past. You want to start with a clean text so that you're not as distracted by prior thoughts, if that makes sense.
[34:21] Yeah yeah that makes sense.
[34:22] So the the purpose of the text is to get the arguments and the wisdom into your mind which has been achieved if you go and revisit you're probably better off with the fresh text, Now, I think maybe there's sentimentality about the beauty and power of that journey of reading those hundred books, for which the notes is evidence.
[34:50] Yes.
[34:52] Like I ordered from my wife a little plaque that has the date and the place on a little GPS map, the date and the place of our first date. And that's just a you know to buy her bed and a bedside and and we look at it and remember that first date it's just it's a nice little marker of a wonderful day so i think that for you and i'm obviously guessing right but i think that for you it's like i had this amazing journey this was the evidence.
[35:21] Yeah i think you're right.
[35:27] And i completely understand that for sure, but the journey is still there the journey continues and one of the great dangers in philosophy is to look to the past not to the future because the purpose of philosophy is not the past any more than you mean you run a philosophy a history podcast so the purpose of history is not the past because it can't be changed the purpose of history is the future to make better decisions in the future and yeah so uh i understand the nostalgia and and the journey. And, the purpose of the journey is to have the transfer of wisdom and knowledge into your mind so you can make better decisions in the future. That's been accomplished.
[36:11] And that's not to say, of course, never revisit those texts. Of course not, right? But what I'm saying is that, the books and the notes have accomplished their task and And, They have no power in the past. They only have power in how they help you make better decisions in the future. So you're kind of keeping empty batteries, if that makes sense. They've already charged their power into your mind.
[36:43] Yeah.
[36:47] What was your age for the 100 books, give or take? Like your 20s?
[36:56] Um you mean when did i start reading them yeah.
[36:58] Sort of what age from and to with these hundred books.
[37:01] Oh let's say um 25 to now roughly okay.
[37:07] And how has how have your friends and family and community processed or dealt with or absorbed your journey in philosophy and history.
[37:25] Well um as far as the i'll start with the community um we're really we're actually kind of new to this community in the last couple of years so they have not been with me for the whole time only recently um i mean the friends i have now are always interested to hear what i have to say like what about the books i'm reading um my family has not been so interested my brother is the most interested i would say my parents are not really into philosophy at all and um they're not that interested in right but they don't seem that interested in talking about it so okay.
[38:12] Hang on hang on okay you're a father right.
[38:15] Yes so.
[38:17] Are you interested in everything your daughter is interested in.
[38:20] Um no okay.
[38:25] So why do you do it.
[38:27] Because i love her right.
[38:32] So saying that your parents aren't into philosophy answers nothing, my daughter uh was really into catching frogs for years do i care about catching frogs spoiler i do not did we spend countless hours roaming around catching frogs yes we did, because i care about her and you know we did have some fun with it and we had great chats while we were doing it, but it's not the topics that matter. It's the child that matters. Your parents should be into philosophy because of their caring for you.
[39:33] Yeah, you're right.
[39:42] My daughter will very happily tell me the background stories of video games neither she or I will ever play. Lore. It's called lore. And it's like, okay, yeah, if she's interested, I'm interested. Because I care about her. So what's going on with your parents?
[40:10] Well i'm not sure exactly the relationship's kind of shallow i mean.
[40:13] It's not like you're into something you're not into like topless anime it's not like some shameful right so what's uh what do you think's going on or not going on um, Well.
[40:36] I'm not really sure. Like I said, the relationship's kind of shallow. They come over and they, I mean, they help us out. They've, they're helping us out with getting back on our feet after the fire. Um, but it's always been kind of like that. Like we don't talk about any deep topics. Um, they don't show any interest in things I'm interested in. Not that they, they never have, but it's like certain things, that i'm interested in they'll show interest in other things they won't it's like.
[41:16] But what about the history stuff.
[41:18] Um oh you mean the podcast.
[41:24] Well not just the podcast but all of your interest in history as a whole they're not particularly interested in philosophy but what about history.
[41:32] Oh um not particularly interested in that either.
[41:35] Do they give you feedback on your podcast Yeah.
[41:39] Well, I've gotten them to listen to it, and they don't, like, I ask them what they think about it, and they'll say, oh, yeah, it was interesting, but it's all kind of surface level.
[41:48] Sorry, what do you mean when you say you've got them to listen to it?
[41:51] Well, I asked them to listen to it.
[41:52] No, but they said. Did they know? They knew you did a podcast, right?
[41:57] Well, yeah, when I told them.
[41:58] Okay, so when you told them I'm doing a podcast, what did they say?
[42:02] Yeah, they said, well, that's interesting. I'll have to listen to that. So i send them the link and they listen to it but um as far as like you know i'll ask them for feedback like what did you think about this and it's all kind of surface level stuff like oh it was interesting um i didn't know this this and this and that's pretty much as far as it goes.
[42:23] So they don't ask you what you love about history what your purpose is with the podcast what kind of feedback you're getting um what what are you working on next or what are you interested in next or you know i mean do they is there anything.
[42:39] Very little um, I mean, is the topic itself that I'm talking about is like, it's pretty obvious why I'm doing it because it's a, it's a story about my own state that I grew up in. So it's like that question is, like, it's pretty obvious why I'm doing it. And no, it's not.
[43:13] No, it's not. You could be doing anything.
[43:17] Yeah, you're right. Right.
[43:19] But there has to be a reason why you're doing it.
[43:23] Yeah.
[43:23] And when did you start it?
[43:28] About seven or eight months ago, I think. I'd have to look back at the date that I first published.
[43:32] So it probably had something to do with becoming a father and wanting a better world for your daughter.
[43:40] Yeah, I think that's right.
[43:47] I mean, that was certainly my motive. I mean, I'm not saying we're the same, but I think fathers are fathers and we want a better world for our kids. And usually that involves taking on topics that can make the world a better place. So, it's not obvious why you'd be doing it. And, I mean, I hate to ask this question so bluntly, but your parents are just not very smart.
[44:27] I wonder about that myself. Like, I'm really not sure. My dad is a, he's a skilled tradesman. He's owned his own business for 30 years or something. And so he's smart in that kind of way for sure.
[44:42] Okay. As far as practical skills and business ability. Yeah. But that's often a practical kind of concrete intelligence, whereas philosophy is more of an abstract principled intelligence.
[44:52] Yeah. As far as the, I don't think he's up there in the abstract principle side of things.
[45:02] Right. Do your parents have hobbies that are cognitively demanding?
[45:12] No, I don't think so. My mom reads, but the kinds of books she reads are not, you know, higher level philosophy books or anything like that or history.
[45:26] What about their social circle? does their social circle include cognitively skilled people in abstractions.
[45:35] No not really.
[45:40] Yeah so it may be just that they don't have any particular, skill or ability in these areas but they should try right yeah i mean if if my father was building a barn, I don't know much about building barns, but I'd go and help if, you know, we had a good relationship. I mean, I would, I would go and do my, my best to help. My daughter, you know, loves particular video games, or loves, she's sort of past that now, but she loved particular video games, particularly during lockdown, and so we would play with friends, and there were games that I was particularly interested in, but it was fun to play together, and I mean, you just, you step over to where the other person is, especially your child, and you meet them where they are, and you try.
[46:47] Yeah that's how that's how i feel sometimes like when i ask you know my mom what she thought about the last episode of the podcast and it seems it always feels like it's kind of superficial like she listened to it and she heard you know she heard about a couple of events that she didn't know about before and she'll say oh that was interesting um but then if i say oh what was interesting about it that's kind of where it ends like she'll say oh i don't know it was just interesting and that's kind of it and have they asked you it's kind of superficial yeah yeah i get.
[47:28] And have they asked you anything about sort of research methods or how you choose a topic or how difficult is it is to put together or i mean have they inquired as to its popularity or ranking or listeners or.
[47:39] Um a little bit about the popularity um the other stuff no.
[47:52] When you were younger i mean every kid has interests that their parents don't directly share that's inevitable you'd kind of want that right this being individual uh did your parents sort of step across what seems like a bit of a canyon of indifference to sort of meet you where, you were interested in things and what you were concerned about?
[48:15] I haven't thought about that in a long time.
[48:18] It's kind of the old, if your kids are playing on the floor, you sit down and you play on the floor, right? If your kids like a particular story, you just read it over and over until they're done with it. Or, you know, if they like a particular game, then you'll do that. And, you know, that kind of stuff, right? So I guess that's my sort of question is, did they if you were playing on the floor did they get on the floor did they get into your if you're making a lego town did they help you make the lego town and talk about who would live there and you know that kind of creative play yeah.
[48:47] I remember some of that stuff mostly from from earlier childhood um i do remember my mom reading a lot of books to me and my brother when we were little.
[49:00] Um, And books that you liked, right?
[49:04] Yeah.
[49:05] Yeah. Okay.
[49:08] Um, I remember we had this little like toy car, like one of those cozy kook things. I don't know if you know what, does that ring a bell? You know, it does not. Yeah. It's this little plastic toy car that's toddler size.
[49:23] And, um, Oh, like you sit in it.
[49:26] Yeah.
[49:26] And you sort of kick it forward Flintstone style.
[49:29] Yeah.
[49:29] Okay. Yeah. Yeah.
[49:30] Yeah. I remember my dad taking us for rides in that, like he would wrap his belt around the steering wheel and pull us.
[49:36] Right.
[49:38] Stuff like that.
[49:41] And that's nice i mean it's not particularly imaginative or creative play neither is reading kids books.
[49:47] Yeah that's the that's the words i was kind of focused on coming up with examples of and i i don't think i really have anything like the imaginative creative play i don't i can't really think of any examples of them right.
[50:00] Okay and uh in terms of things that you were interested in, that wasn't obviously their first choice did they try to when you were a kid did they try to sort of meet you like you got into a particular book series or maybe a show or something, or did they sort of try and.
[50:24] Meet you where you were I remember getting into chess I remember getting into chess, for a good while and my dad would play chess with me quite a bit um but i would read like i got into like reading chess books and you know learning tactics and strategy and all that.
[50:48] So uh so that's i mean it's good that he played chess with you right it's very structured and not particularly imaginative but.
[50:54] It's something.
[50:55] Right okay and anything else.
[51:02] I remember a lot of board games we played a lot of board games, like you know there was chess but then there was other ones that were like you know there were four people in the family and we'd play games that involved four people a lot right we would have family game nights and that kind of thing.
[51:22] Right okay and that's that's fine again it's not particularly imaginative and it's not and particularly on things that you're interested in. So that just could be a bit of a pattern, right?
[51:40] Yeah. Yeah, if I really focus on trying to come up with examples of imaginative or creative stuff that I was interested in, I can't think of any examples of them.
[51:55] Um well and sorry sorry to interrupt but even if it's not this like they don't have to have some gift for creative or imaginative play but if you're into chess and you're reading books on chess then your father should read books on chess so that you can discuss these things, yeah you know when my daughter gets into a particular book series i'll at least try and read a couple of them so that i can talk about the characters and the story and the style and all that.
[52:22] Yeah my dad never read any books on chess.
[52:24] Okay okay right okay so i think i think that the lack of parental involvement in your interests has something to do with the loss of the books being devastating i'm not sure exactly what but i feel that i could be wrong obviously but i feel that the two are connected.
[52:46] That's an interesting connection i didn't uh that's a surprising direction for this country conversation to go into me.
[52:55] But it's.
[52:56] Interesting i guess that's why i called right because there was going to be something surprising.
[53:00] Well generally when i'm surprised there's something surprising yeah because i've been i've been through these calls thousands of times right so and i was like if you'd have given me like, you know top 20 things you lost in the fire uh books with notes would not be up there and, that's just surprising for me but but that usually means that there's some um and sort of when we unpacked it it that the notes themselves don't have much value so the loss of them has to represent something else if that makes sense yeah like if some guy just misplaces yeah like where does the some guy misplaces a thumb drive and and he's really upset we assume that there was something really valuable on the thumb drive that he's not told us yet sorry go ahead.
[53:46] Yeah yeah yeah yeah the um like where the question is where does the attachment come from.
[53:52] Well it's a journey you went on that has in a sense caused you and your parents to diverge as you get deeper and richer and your parents say more shallow and superficial or the same level of shallowness and superficiality, you're diverging from them. Not necessarily in opposition, but definitely in divergence.
[54:14] Yeah. Yeah, that's true.
[54:18] And as you get deeper and deeper, there's a fairly powerful phrase from Gertrude Stein, who was alienated from her brother, where she said, little by little, we never met again. And as you as you get deeper into things and you start thinking more richly about life and so on it is it's kind of like being a scuba diver and then you have to keep going back to the surface, you just kind of get the bends and it's it's uh you you have to have then two mindsets the mindset of dealing with the people who are only surface and shallow and then the people who are richer and deeper and you have to have this duality right yeah.
[54:59] Yeah i've definitely experienced now i never put it that way but i've definitely experienced that.
[55:08] I have to uh consciously it's like um a lifting platform in my body i just i just go up to like npc mode in certain situations yeah what depth no.
[55:20] I used to think that i used to think that it It was kind of like, I used to be like, when I was in my 20s, especially, I used to think that it was kind of, I had like this resentment of small talk, like having to make small talk with people. But the, you know, I've kind of come around on it and I'm like, well, you know, this is kind of the social ritual that people do and I've gotten better at it, I think. And I'm okay with kind of operating on that level sometimes.
[55:52] Well and we all have to operate on that level at times the question is what what about the relationships where that's the only level yeah, So the loss of the books, the loss of the books, and the loss of the journey, I think I just said 27 to 31 or something like that.
[56:13] Yeah, 25 to now.
[56:15] Sorry, 25. So yeah, a little more than half a decade. That's the notes, the notes. If you'd lost the books without the notes, it wouldn't be as important because you could just get the books back, right? Okay. And then you'd get them back for free because of the insurance. So again, not fun, but it's the notes. The notes. Because this is the worst thing that happened to you was the fire. And the worst part of the worst thing that happened to you was the notes in the margins. And I don't mean that to sound skeptical. I just, that's the sort of hierarchy that I'm looking at. Which means it must represent something deep and powerful.
[57:00] These notes. It could have you said your brothers do you have other siblings just one brother just one brother and he's a little more he said he's a little more interested in things right yeah.
[57:12] He's read not all of the books i've read but a fair bit of them.
[57:15] And he's you know we talk about.
[57:17] These things yeah we talk about these things.
[57:19] And much more.
[57:21] Than i do with my parents.
[57:22] And he gives you feedback on the podcast is that right yeah, And how's your wife in the murky quicksand of philosophy?
[57:35] Well, she's not as interested in it as I am, but she tries her best to meet me where I am. She asks me what I'm reading about and asks me questions about it. She does all that because she's more interested in me than in the books. But much like your wife does, I would imagine.
[57:58] Uh does she uh she listens to the podcast and gives you feedback.
[58:03] Yeah okay.
[58:05] Okay and what about friends uh the church.
[58:11] Well she the community she gets to hear me recording the podcast oh right okay i'm.
[58:15] Sorry i figured with six bedrooms or whatever okay um so what about uh congregation church community friends and and maybe people you work with uh how are they with your journey.
[58:30] Um well i have a few friends at church who are um well actually i've just in the last couple of years i've started a group at my house where we get together and read these things and there's been a couple guys from church join in on that so um it's kind of the same thing like i don't think they're as into this stuff as i am but um they are always at you know if i bring it up or sometimes they'll bring it up to me or they'll ask questions to me about what i'm doing and they're interested to hear about it.
[59:04] What got you started at 25 on this.
[59:08] Um it was a well as a podcast i heard um there was a i don't want to give i don't want to say too much identifying information but there was an online group that was kind of built around this it's not it's not around anymore, um but i was a member of that for a while um, Um, I, I, I heard the, the guy that was in charge, like the owner of the business went on somebody else's podcast and was talking about it and talking about all these great books from the Western world, you know, starting with the Iliad and, um, how it's a good thing to read them and you should learn where we came from. And so that got me started on this path. And I was a member of that for probably four or five years until it shut down. And I just continued on my own after that.
[1:00:06] Uh why did it shut down uh.
[1:00:09] The guy in charge shut it down he i'm not really sure what his reasons were oh.
[1:00:15] Um was was the community a problem or did he just move on or why not just leave it running.
[1:00:21] He just i think he just moved on i don't i didn't i don't he didn't really um he really give an explanation it's.
[1:00:29] Not very philosophical is.
[1:00:30] It i think it i think it had something to do with because part of the deal was the like you pay the you pay a membership fee and they send you books every month um and i think part of the part of it was the difficulty of or maybe maybe most of it was the difficulty of getting books shipped like they were getting more expensive and it became not a not a good business model to be able to do it and it was a it was a business so, So I think that was a lot of it.
[1:01:04] And how far do you think philosophy has moved you from your life in your early 20s?
[1:01:14] Oh, almost immeasurably. Like I was, well, I'm married and have a daughter because of it. I am a Christian now because of it. I was raised Christian, but I left the faith in my early 20s, and then I converted again after getting into this stuff and learning about philosophy.
[1:01:39] Okay. Got it. Got it. So, the notes were like footprints on the biggest journey you've had. The journey that has given you the life that you have. Okay, yeah they're like footprints in the snow and and you could trace the journey right the biggest journey you have which has given you the joys and to some degree the distance that you have from people in your life some people, Okay. Do you know the origin of the fire?
[1:02:32] I don't. I just know it was a wildfire that started somewhere, you know, some distance away from us. And it was high winds and, like, pretty fire-prone situation.
[1:02:46] Oh, I know. I mean, once it started, I get that. But, I mean, I've just read that a lot of these are arson or environmental wackos. or yeah.
[1:02:54] I don't i don't know anything about how it got started i know i've heard roughly where it got started in relation to us but i have no idea how.
[1:03:02] Right okay so, the journey i mean this sounds really cheesy it sounds like i feel like i'm about to give you some sort of fortune cookie the journey is within my friend right but but i mean cheesy though it is true to true it remains which is uh the journey that you made from 25 onwards to where you are now, is within you it's not in the margins of the books, and the margins in the books while being a great record of your journey which i i i understand it more now, I think, which is that this was the record of your journey, because you could go back and say, here's what I thought about this argument or idea when I was 25 or 26 or 28 or whatever it is, right? So it was a marking of a journey. Now, most times though, we mark a journey because we intend to return.
[1:04:16] There's no undo in philosophy, right? You know, that old saying that a mind once stretched by a new idea never regains its original shape. So, while the journey is interesting, one of the reasons we drop breadcrumbs in the forest is to find a way back. I remember when I was in Africa, I went hiking in the jungle and I put all these arrows on the ground with little stones and twigs so I could find my way back.
[1:04:45] So one of the reasons right i always feel philosophy is like you know sam wise yeah i don't think there'll be a return journey mr frodo right there there is no retracing your steps there's no going back now again it's not it's not bad to go back and look at uh you know i i put out an nft some time ago which was my manifesto i wrote a manifesto both philosophical and political in my 20s early 20s and going back to read that was very interesting i mean and i still believe a lot of it maybe even most but certainly not all and going back to read my early novels or and so on is is very interesting but there is no return journey there is no retracing your steps so the margins were interesting but there's no going back there's certainly no going back to who you were when you made those notes right so they exist as archaeology not as living things they exist as the map to a journey it would be kind of like uh your um your marks in grade school. Interesting. I mean, interesting to go back and reread, but you've never gone back to grade school, right?
[1:06:09] So that's all in the past. So, there's something about letting go of that past that is very painful to you. And maybe, I mean, were you aware of the shallowness in your relationship with your parents before you got into philosophy?
[1:06:35] No, I wasn't.
[1:06:37] Right. What is it the Bible says? He who gaineth in wisdom also gains in.
[1:06:46] Pain. I don't remember what the exact word is, but it's something like that. Sorrow, right.
[1:06:53] And when we outgrow our parents, it's painful. When we, and there comes a time to anyone who thinks deeply, if you have shallow parents, and most of us do, at least relative to the deep thoughts that we have, when you look at your parents and you see their limitations, their childishness in a way. Because children tend to be kind of self-absorbed. It's not a criticism, it's good, right? But children tend to be kind of self-absorbed. And your parents seem to be quite self-absorbed in that if it's interesting to them, they're interested. If it's not, they're not. And children won't even fake it. but, and your parents won't even fake it either. They're just not interested. And they don't, they don't, they don't just, I don't know, some book you mentioned, they could go and get an AI summary and at least have some conversation about it, but they don't even do that, right?
[1:08:10] So that those markings in the corner of the book were the path back to looking up at your parents.
[1:08:26] And with each one of those markings in the books you outgrew your parents to the point now where I think you manage them a little bit like children, like you don't have too high an expectation you recognize their limitations you don't demand too much you don't try to raise them to your level of conversation or intellect or depth or curiosity or compassion or empathy you just view them as oh they're kind of limited and you know they're helpful here and there and they're nice and pleasant to be around and we can have nice chats about things but uh it is like one percent of this the material and depth that you're working with.
[1:09:00] Yeah that's that's pretty spot on.
[1:09:08] And it could be that they are just limited. You know, if you've got a son who's five foot one, you don't prep him for the NBA, right? So it could just be that they're limited. But it's a sad thing. Because, of course, when we're children, we look up at our parents and they appear to be gods. They can do everything. They know everything, right? And especially if your father is physically skilled, which, of course, as a tradesman, he would be. He's like, can fix anything, can do everything, you know, that kind of stuff, right? And then when we grow in depth and wisdom, if our parents are practical and shallow and material, then we outgrow them in very deep ways and almost in infinite ways. Because it's not like they can't do 10% of what you do or 20% or maybe even 2%, right? So it's like much, much, much bigger and much, it's almost infinitely, if that makes sense.
[1:10:04] Yeah actually this i just remembered this back near the beginning of getting into the end of philosophy and this kind of stuff i read well one of the first books i read was the odyssey, which was father son story and um i got like i after i finished it i got a copy from my dad and gave it to him. And, you know, this was before I came to these realizations about my parents. But I got a copy from my dad and gave it to him hoping that he would read it and we could talk about it and he never did.
[1:10:47] Right. And he also didn't circle back to you and say, I'm sorry, I'll get to it, or I don't, I've tried and it doesn't work for me. Is there any summary or is there an audio book or, you know, he didn't sort of say I'm having difficulty with it or I can't get it done. Is there another way I can do it?
[1:11:07] No, he didn't say that either.
[1:11:08] It just fell into the void, right? Now, of course, you know that's not how he runs his business. So he's perfectly capable of providing feedback on things he can't do or isn't going to do, right? So he treats his customers in a way almost better than he treats you.
[1:11:29] If somebody asks him to do something, he doesn't just pretend it never happened, right? You can't run a business that way, right? So it would be interesting to have a conversation with your parents and say, i feel like the stuff that i'm really interested in you don't really care for or try to take a move towards, and maybe there's a block or maybe there's something that they could connect with that would open that up.
[1:12:24] Yeah, I mean, I don't know whether you should or shouldn't have that conversation, but I think it would be good to have it as a conscious decision whether you decide to or not to. Because if you decide not to, it would be probably based on the fact that they're just limited they're just really limited and with regards to depth they just don't have it they just like they're like someone whose ears just simply won't pop like you can't you can't take them down scuba diving they just they'll just get injured and so um so if you accept those limitations there's a certain amount of sorrow and grieving that is associated with that, yeah but but then there's less because then you're not disappointed sorry go ahead.
[1:13:01] Yeah like i feel that for sure and i have been having thoughts about that like that grieving that they're not you know just aren't going to do that for whatever reason i have been grieving that the last few years.
[1:13:16] Yeah it's really i mean i find it really important to not be disappointed in relationships and usually i'm disappointed because i have unrealistic expectations, you know there's things that i've wanted my daughter to get into or to to enjoy or whatever and she just hasn't now my that the problem with that is not her the problem is my expectations that she should, so i think uh accepting the truth about people is really important to avoid chafing and expectations in in relationships and and that's true for other people to you too i mean there's you have your strengths and weaknesses just as i do and it's important that people like if my if my wife was like i really need you to become a mathematician i'd be like i, gotta tell you much though i love you much though i'd want to please you i don't think that's going to happen very well, right? Because it's my limitation, right? I'm okay at math, but it doesn't come as naturally to me as a lot of other things.
[1:14:27] So, or if my wife were to say, you know, I've got a friend who's super handy at stuff, like just he looks at something and disassembles it and reassembles it in his own brain. It's kind of a freaky thing to me because it's like magic.
[1:14:40] But so, but if my wife were to say, I need you to become as handy as this guy, right? I'd be like, nah it's not not a thing i mean i worked in a hardware store i know a few things here and there but uh it's not particularly interesting to me and uh it's not not a skill that i have and it's also not a skill i want to develop the good thing about getting older is you realize how hard it is to become good at stuff yeah and you're just like no like you know for me if it's like oh i could learn uh another language and it's like it's gonna be 10 000 hours like i know how long that's gonna to take like i did violin for 10 years which kind of inoculated me against learning any other instruments because it's like uh i know how long it takes to get even decent at something so um i just don't i just have a funny thing too like with video games i haven't played a new video game in years because they're either too simple to be interesting or you know it's like some game where it's like there are 14 000 different resource combinations and you can train things to do this and then you and it's so strategic it's like i'm i don't have time to love this i'm i don't have time to unless it's something like like dungeons and dragons i kind of already know but um so, i think adjusting those expectations have the conversation or don't but i would say if you don't have the conversation it is accepting that there's no return journey to.
[1:16:06] Respecting your parents in this way and look i'm not saying that cognitive limitations are worthy of disrespect. Otherwise, people would look at my, you know, I don't speak any other languages than English particularly, and therefore, you know, what, did they look down on me? No, it's just a, but my concern with your parents is not their limitations, but the lack of.
[1:16:27] Empathy to you and i would downright and directly call it affection and love towards you that you just try you just try because it's if it's important to you it should be important to them, and and that's that's sort of my major concern now if you decide not to have the conversation it would be like okay so they're limited in their capacity to love me in this kind of way i mean they'll show affection in other ways and come help you when your house burns down and stuff like that and that's nothing to sneeze at for sure but in terms of like it's important to you therefore it's important to them if that's not going to happen um you know just going to have to grieve that that lack of love because that is a love thing that is a love thing that you know and if somebody were to say to the average person should you be should you at least try to be interested or or get to know things that people you care about are really passionate about and be like well yeah of course and so it's not some esoteric thing that that people don't know that's a pretty obvious thing and so if they won't do it or can't do it then it's a limitation on the size of their hearts it's a limitation on their affection and that's something to grieve but it's also i think in order to avoid being disappointed and and chafing with regards to expectations it's probably something worth accepting.
[1:17:51] Maybe that's what God wants you to learn from the fire. The only person who didn't get disappointed by his father is Jesus himself.
[1:17:59] Yeah. Yeah.
[1:18:01] All right. Is that a fairly decent place to get to?
[1:18:06] Yeah. So you're telling me that philosophy can't unburn my house?
[1:18:12] That's extra. So we'll negotiate that offline.
[1:18:16] All right.
[1:18:20] Well uh listen man keep me posted uh you do have my big sympathies uh i of course i'm not saying that oh just do a dance of joy for your house getting burnt down but uh man it could have been a whole lot worse and you will get great lessons out of this and i've in my own personal life i've had things which i think are really bad that turn out to be really great i'm yeah yeah i'm happy i'm happier post-platforming than pre-platforming anyway go on yeah.
[1:18:46] I will say um so before the fire my wife and i were trying to have a second baby and um so a couple days ago i asked her you still want to keep trying for another baby and she said uh yeah do you not like why would you ask that and i was i was like yeah okay i married the right woman.
[1:19:08] My god man don't let the smoke damage hit your testicles keep those folks yeah for sure all right well listen keep me posted and i really do appreciate the call today and uh i wish you the very best with the rebuild thank.
[1:19:21] You i really appreciate it.
[1:19:22] Thanks brother take care bye-bye thanks bye.
Support the show, using a variety of donation methods
Support the show
