Stefan Molyneux speaks with a 37-year-old teacher who is wrestling with perfectionism, shaky self-worth, and the lasting effects of difficult relationships, especially with her parents and her child’s father. The woman starts by saying she wants to understand where her perfectionism comes from and why she finds it so hard to speak up for her own opinions, which leaves her feeling inadequate. He gently draws her out, asking about her past and the patterns that have guided her choices.
As they talk, it emerges that she has an avoidant attachment style that keeps showing up in her romantic decisions. She describes her former engagement to a controlling, ultimately abusive man and admits she saw his emotional problems early on, problems that probably traced back to his own rough childhood. Molyneux asks her to think about why she poured so much energy into trying to fix him even after spotting those red flags.
The conversation moves deeper when she opens up about growing up in a tense household where her parents fought a lot, leaving her anxious. He probes her memories of each parent: her father was often away for work, and her mother had a volatile temper. She begins to see how that environment shaped how she views family ties and her own value, and how it led her to pick partners who echoed the same chaos.
Throughout the exchange, Molyneux stresses the need for accountability and honest self-awareness. He invites her to examine the unconditional love she still feels for her parents despite their shortcomings, and to notice how differently she judged her ex’s behavior compared with theirs. She says she hopes both her own life and her son’s can break free from the patterns she knew as a child. He highlights the value of clear boundaries and the real consequences that follow from repeated poor choices.
In the end, they turn to questions of virtue, personal responsibility, and what love actually requires, especially in parenting. Molyneux points out that genuine love has to rest on moral qualities rather than blind duty or social pressure. By the close of the call the woman has a clearer sense of her repeating struggles and a stronger grasp on the kind of steady environment she wants to create for her son.
0:00:00 - Boundaries and Trust
0:00:55 - The Weight of Perfectionism
0:02:39 - Exploring Attachment Styles
0:04:11 - Patterns of Unavailability
0:05:49 - Reflecting on Past Relationships
0:06:40 - The Impact of Jealousy
0:07:50 - Understanding Control and Boundaries
0:10:00 - The Complexity of Choices
0:13:08 - Analyzing Relationships
0:15:34 - The Artist's Life
0:16:48 - Family Dynamics and Relationships
0:18:57 - Childhood Influence on Love
0:20:35 - The Cycle of Abuse
0:24:22 - The Illusion of Love
0:27:22 - The Consequences of Lust
0:30:07 - Seeking Virtue in Relationships
0:34:33 - Generational Patterns
0:38:15 - The Pursuit of Happiness
0:40:03 - A New Perspective on Love
0:43:16 - The Role of Unconditional Love
0:45:34 - The Importance of Honesty
0:47:45 - Breaking the Cycle
0:49:30 - Understanding the Past
0:52:29 - The Path Forward
0:54:50 - Redefining Love and Relationships
0:56:56 - Moving Towards Healing
0:59:24 - The Future of Love
1:01:57 - Conversations with Parents
1:04:29 - The Journey of Self-Discovery
1:07:05 - Embracing Change
1:10:25 - The Power of Choice
1:12:31 - Conclusion and Reflection
[0:00:00] Nice to meet you. It's a public call here today, so just remember, if you could, to stay off names and places. And I'm all ears if you'd like to tell me how I can best help. I'd be happy to do what I can.
[0:00:14] Yes, so I have written a letter, but I worry for it to last while I'm reading. So I'll try to remember what I wanted to say.
[0:00:24] I'm sorry, just are you on a phone or a speakerphone? It's a little tough to hear you.
[0:00:32] Oh, I'm on my phone.
[0:00:34] You don't happen to have a headset or anything, do you?
[0:00:38] I have headphones.
[0:00:40] Oh, you have headphones on?
[0:00:42] Yes.
[0:00:43] Okay, can you just tap the microphone? I just want to make sure that the phone is picking up the right microphone.
[0:00:48] Yeah, I add more volume.
[0:00:51] Okay.
[0:00:52] Okay, can you hear me?
[0:00:54] Yes, go ahead.
[0:00:55] Okay. So today's topic, I would like to talk about boundaries and trust myself, but not that way like I don't like myself, I like, but for more weight, like persons, like that my opinion has done it. So in that sense, so I want to start about perfectionism because I usually consider I'm so sorry.
[0:01:24] Are you walking around? There's a lot of background noise or rustles. I'm just having a tough time hearing you. That combined, it's not your fault, of course. You have a bit of an accent. It's just a little tough to hear.
[0:01:38] Yeah, I'm walking, but I found quieter places. Okay, so start again. So I want to talk about boundaries and how I trust myself more, like a person who has weight, like an opinion matter, in that kind of sense. Okay.
[0:02:00] All right. So tell me what's going on in your life that this is a problem.
[0:02:04] Yeah. So I have a lot of perfectionism. I usually never know what I do. I could do better. and by example in my work I had meetings where it was kind of insulting events because I took really seriously these complaints how we do bad our work but I saw companions almost crying and later they said that I do good my job but I feel kind of that opinion is like echo about that it's never enough.
[0:02:40] So I would like to dig deeper what is behind that because I have avoidant attachment. So I suspect that behind all this perfectionism and everything is something way deeper.
[0:02:56] Ah, okay. And what are you in your 20s or 30s or something else?
[0:03:01] I'm 30s and I work as a teacher, but I work with disabled kids and I really like my job. And before this meeting, I thought that all is great, but we want to work overtime. It's like what you do is not enough. So I felt disappointed and even started out if I'm doing good.
[0:03:30] Okay, so you're in your 50s, and can you tell me a little bit about your life as a whole? Are you married? Do you have kids?
[0:03:37] No, I'm 30s. My accent probably is like 37.
[0:03:44] Sorry, can you just say that again? You're what age?
[0:03:48] 37.
[0:03:48] 37, okay. Sorry, my apologies. Okay, so you sounded younger, but some people you can't tell. So, okay, so you're 37, and tell me about your life as a whole outside of work.
[0:04:00] Yeah, so I also found that I choose like unavailable men and make them like my project too.
[0:04:12] It's like I see reason why we can't be together, but somehow I can fix it. So in my life, I'm a single mother and I saw it's like repeating this pattern. It's like I choose a person who, for some reason, can't have a healthy, normal relationship, and later I try and make it like that. So, also, I think it adds up in her perfectionism and boundaries. It's like trying different kind of ways to analyze, understand another person's point of view, why it's like that. In one of the podcasts you told that growing up between the crazy people becomes your like managing crazy people like life skills. So I feel like that way. It's like my interest is like why people behave like that. I mean, I'm into a lot of analyzing too.
[0:05:07] Okay, and how many children do you have?
[0:05:10] One.
[0:05:11] Okay. And were you married to the child's father?
[0:05:18] No, I'm not. So I also, we have like, we've been engaged, but I myself can't. So I suspect that at that moment I thought that how I was able to choose a person like that, how I was able to be in a situation like that. But as more and more time goes by, I noticed it's like maybe something that's
[0:05:45] more reason why I choose that way or live that way. So today's my question. I really wonder what is behind that.
[0:05:56] Right. Okay. And why did you break off the engagement?
[0:05:59] Because he was really jealous, controlling, and later turns up into even abusive.
[0:06:09] I'm sorry to hear that. I really am. That's very sad. I'm very sorry to hear about that. Abusive, physically violent?
[0:06:18] First, no, but in the end, yes, things are even until that point. I tried really to analyze him, understand his bad childhood, stuff like that. I gave a lot of grace that helped me to change, and I really tried to help can change. I mean, it's like it took a lot of energy.
[0:06:40] And how long were you together for?
[0:06:43] We've been like five years, but living together, four.
[0:06:48] Okay. And what did you find attractive about him?
[0:06:53] Yeah, so I found attractive, like probably now thinking because I'm like in anxiety, to try to do the best I can or something, so he was like an artist kind of that line.
[0:07:07] Sorry, I didn't quite catch that.
[0:07:09] Yeah, it was like doing art.
[0:07:14] I'm not catching that word, sorry. Oh, he was an artist?
[0:07:19] Yes.
[0:07:19] Oh, heaven help you. Oh, no. Oh, no. Was he a hot artist? Was he a handsome artist?
[0:07:29] No, really. I mean, he considered himself ugly, and I was like the one who said, no, you're beautiful, you're nice. It's like I wanted to lift him up.
[0:07:43] All right. And when did he first start, when did you first notice that he was controlling?
[0:07:51] Oh, he started even talking, I noticed he was controlling, but I tried to justify it. like over time it goes how you do it and things like that. So I think my problem was like, And for some reason, I thought that I had some power to change another person. So now I see it's like, like, this is what I think, like, moving the rack, but it's all there. But at the time, I thought that everything is possible. It's like people can change. Even he said he can change.
[0:08:26] Now, you get your first gold star of the conversation because this is the first question you have dodged. so yeah what was my question my.
[0:08:40] Question was um i forgot if i'm honest.
[0:08:48] No that's fine that's fine my question was when did you first notice he was controlling and your answer was i thought i could fix him which is not the answer right that's and again you don't have to answer any of my questions but if you're not going to answer them, just tell me you're not going to answer them. So I'll ask again, sorry, I know it sounds like I'm nagging you, but when did you first notice he was controlling?
[0:09:18] In first months, I think, because it was like, where do you go? What are you doing? And I didn't consider these questions like interrogation or something. In my mind, I thought like, question where I go? But by the time it was like, FBI, where do you go? So it's not like I read, it was more like, I felt like I need to give a report.
[0:09:46] Okay, so within the first couple of weeks of dating him, he was very controlling.
[0:09:53] Yeah, basically, yes.
[0:09:54] Long before you moved in together.
[0:09:57] Yes.
[0:09:58] So why did you keep going?
[0:10:01] For me, it was kind of a huge energy for change something, it's like I can change it if I understand enough. I know it sounds ridiculous now, but at the time, in my energy, I thought I can fix, change, help.
[0:10:20] Hang on, but why would you want to date a man you had to fix rather than a man who wasn't controlling in the first place?
[0:10:32] A really good question, I don't know, I mean, I met, like, I go on a date, and when I'm on a date, it's like these guys look serious, they ask questions that don't look serious, and I really wanted marriage, kids, to be an interesting person, so I found an interesting person in some way, but not marriage motive.
[0:10:57] Sorry, you didn't think he was marriage material?
[0:11:01] No, I was searching interesting person for marriage kids, but by the time I found out he's not marriage material, obviously he wasn't even having a lot of problems.
[0:11:15] Well, but you knew within the first couple of weeks that he was trolling, right?
[0:11:21] Yes.
[0:11:21] He wanted to know where you were at all times and so on, right? So why? And I'm not asking this in a critical way. I'm genuinely curious. It is a big mystery for men. Why women go for bad men? yeah it is a big now listen listen sorry i also understand that sometimes it's frustrating for women that men go for bad women but i happen to be talking to a woman here so it is a big mystery uh why women okay was he wealthy no was he very tall no was he he said he was ugly i mean objectively, was he handsome, medium, or ugly?
[0:12:13] Well, in my eyes, it wasn't ugly, but it wasn't like a basketball player or stuff like that. Or I don't know, people consider it like top 10.
[0:12:24] Okay. Was he very smart?
[0:12:27] Yeah, he was smart.
[0:12:28] He was smart. Okay. And did he have any other positive qualities? Smart is dangerous, right? Because if someone is smart and good, that's a big plus. if somebody is smart and bad, that's a huge minus because they're going to have a lot of skills on how to control you, right? Yeah, you're completely right. Sorry, go ahead.
[0:12:54] Yeah, you are completely right because during this time, I felt like in haunted houses, like,
[0:13:02] which goes to scanning phones, like all my fears and everything go up. I didn't know even I have.
[0:13:10] Yeah, if a woman wants to date a smart man, an intelligent man, she has to, has to, has to make sure he's a good man, because otherwise his intelligence will be used against her.
[0:13:24] Yeah, I found out. Like I said, I'm kind of, like, after that experience, long time ago I discovered I have avoidant attachment that just, like, opened my, eyes, and I found out that probably I was running from something this way, like I can't have something, and I analyze, make logic. Yeah, it's like logic, I can't, but I have feeling it's way more deeper. It's like I want to find this reason why I do it.
[0:13:59] Right. Well, what did your friends and family think of this man?
[0:14:05] Oh, my parents said they welcomed him and he looked like charming but my best friend, she saw him and said, looks arrogant and he didn't like, and was like jealous that we speak too much. So yeah, so she basically saw another friend. I have another friend. She also has now currently guys who are jealous and controlling. So it's like add up with your idea of Batman because she chose too, so she can't judge me. I'm trying to help her now.
[0:14:43] Okay, so he wasn't wealthy, he wasn't tall, he wasn't handsome. Was he successful? Because, of course, as an artist, you can be successful without making much money.
[0:14:58] He, as I saw, he had also perfectionism, but he usually liked to quit. He's doing in the perfect way, his own way. People say he's doing great, he's enjoying attention and quit. He quit jobs, places, not like in a current particular place. Even now, changing jobs, he's not steady. So he could be successful, but he can handle long time in one place.
[0:15:32] What kind of artist was he?
[0:15:35] A tattoo artist.
[0:15:36] I'm sorry?
[0:15:37] A tattoo artist.
[0:15:38] I'm sorry, can you spell that out?
[0:15:41] A tattoo artist. I don't know how to say it better. It's like a tattoo is covering on skin.
[0:15:52] A tattoo?
[0:15:53] Yes.
[0:15:53] Okay, that's not an artist.
[0:15:57] Make out to know himself an artist.
[0:15:59] You're kidding me. Here, I'm thinking he's a playwright or a sculptor. He tattoos people. That's why I was having trouble understanding. So you had a child with someone who hurts people for a living.
[0:16:19] Yeah.
[0:16:21] Okay. And he couldn't even keep a job as a tattoo artist.
[0:16:27] Yes.
[0:16:28] Wow. Okay. And your father was happy with you dating and moving in with a controlling tattoo artist.
[0:16:40] This is the point. I think my dad, like, when I grew up, was like away often, not at home. So it was like, it's your choice.
[0:16:52] So you said you grew up, your father was away from home a lot?
[0:16:55] Yeah. It's like he wasn't at home, it's like all the time come back late, so it wasn't at home.
[0:17:03] And why was he not at home?
[0:17:05] He all the time was working. So I think I repeat this pattern myself. It's like all the time I need something, try the best I can. So of course I try to spend time with my child as more as possible and be attuned to him. I don't want to repeat my childhood but this part was like he was awake and he's like oh it's your choice.
[0:17:31] Okay and what was your parents relationship like?
[0:17:36] We considered ourselves happy, but we were fighting a lot. Even in communication, there were a lot of arguments. So, as I saw, I didn't want that, but it repeated by itself. For me, it was a huge waking up. Then I realized I chose even worse. It's sometimes worse than I grew up myself. So, why did I do that? So it's like golden question because as I know, people repeat their childhood for unconscious reasons to have better outcome. But in my case, it was even worse, but it somehow opened a lot of knowledge. But sadly, it's like I wish I could back in time and be different. I mean, at that time, I felt like something familiar. It felt like this person is like that, is like that, but I have blind spots. For me, it was usual norm because here was my environment, like people talking disrespectful with each other. So when he talked with me this respectful way, I just passed.
[0:18:51] Right, okay. And what did your parents fight about?
[0:18:57] About a lot of things. It looked like the little things set them off. It was kind of anxiety in my home. A lot of supposed to be stuff put one way, not another way. It's like a really dysregulated environment. Even myself, I have kind of little things in my home because for me, a lot of things make me for me anxiety because usually these parts, for little things like mug, like cup of tea or something, so it was so crazy how it repeated this to my own relationship. We fight also about things, how they are put or how it's like order at home and stuff like that.
[0:19:47] Okay. And how often did your parents fight in a week?
[0:19:54] Often. And basically, the previous guy who called you yesterday, he said he doesn't remember his childhood. I don't remember. My basically 60 years, I vanished. So I feel similar because I guess it was so much stress that I even don't remember. I know that we spend a lot of time in park for not being at home.
[0:20:18] Right. Okay. And you have siblings?
[0:20:21] Yes, I have sister.
[0:20:22] Okay. So, when you got older and you can remember, how often did your parents fight?
[0:20:30] I answered this, it was like almost a good day.
[0:20:33] Okay, and are they still together?
[0:20:36] Yes, but we consider that it's like all okay, but as I see, it's kind of, especially after my, this unsuccessful relationship, I see more different kind of way than before. before I thought like, I keep like little beautiful moments, and I kept it like forever. It was like one beautiful moment, like Tampa Christmas, and I keep it in my mind, like saving, like gold, like monuments of gold are saving. And for me, it looked like, oh, it's everything good, but after that, I see a bigger picture.
[0:21:15] Okay. And what did your mother think of your boyfriend?
[0:21:21] Well, she stay he like, Because he said, all gonna be okay, life will be great. But I think from start, she kind of suspected that he would be a different person than he acted.
[0:21:38] Well, but he was controlling in the first few weeks. Did you tell your mother that?
[0:21:43] Yeah, she knew, she saw like I'm kind of proving something, but also that didn't interrupt. At that time, I was 24 years old, so for me it was like huge hopes. I thought I can change the world, but over and over I had situations that the world changed me.
[0:22:04] Well, I don't know. I'm still trying to figure it out. I'm not sure that you thought you could change the world, because you saw your parents try to change each other by fighting and nagging and controlling each other. did your parents ever succeed in changing each other for the better?
[0:22:23] Good question. I don't know.
[0:22:25] I'm sure you do. Hang on, hang on, hang on. They fought every day, right?
[0:22:31] Yes.
[0:22:32] Did that fighting succeed in producing a happy marriage?
[0:22:39] Probably not.
[0:22:40] Well, are they happy now?
[0:22:44] If I could ask them, they'd say happy, but I see from corner, no, because it's in huge anxiety or nagging, like you say, it's like, you did that wrong or you did this wrong. So for me, it creates like probably escape idea, like don't come closer to somebody because it could hurt you.
[0:23:07] Okay. So what is your mother's biggest complaint about your father?
[0:23:14] Obviously, that wasn't at home. At work, everything's perfect, but at home, if he doesn't pay attention, this kind of complaint.
[0:23:26] Okay. So, your mother complained that your father wasn't at home, okay?
[0:23:35] Yes.
[0:23:36] And she fought with him about this. Now, was her fighting with him? Did that make him want to be at home more or less?
[0:23:46] Of course less. Right. He found excuses for them, you know.
[0:23:50] Yeah, okay. So your mother was yelling at your father to come home and be at home, and when he was home, she yelled at him more, so he didn't want to be at home. So your mother, you saw for decades, was trying to get your father to come home, but doing the opposite of she was driving him away. Now, what was your father's biggest complaint about your mother?
[0:24:18] Obviously, it's like high temper, impulsivity.
[0:24:22] I mean, it's like a lot of person. I mean, a lot of personality. It's like another disappear.
[0:24:32] Okay. So, your father's biggest complaint about your mother was nagging or something like that? Okay. And did either of them get to change the other person? Did your father manage to get your mother to stop nagging? And did your mother get your father to come home when you were a child?
[0:24:56] No, I mean, it was like more modeling for me. It's like I took that part that I didn't like and tried to change myself being like sweet. I usually go out in the world like sweet, like kind. I'm trying to be less oppositional as possible. And it brings me a lot of trouble because later i found myself like i wanted to say to you but i forgot i feel like george from my fly from back to the future i feel like i i'm interested a lot in my stuff and and comes beep and say why did you do that right and i'm trying like oh i understand it's like, yeah so i i would like change this part of me because it disturbed me a lot and i found over I try to analyze people who are overstepping my boundaries.
[0:25:49] Right. Okay. So you grew up seeing that your parents couldn't change each other.
[0:25:59] Yes.
[0:26:00] They kept trying and failing. And so you did not believe, because you're an intelligent woman, You did not believe that you could change a bad man because you saw your parents not changing each other your whole childhood.
[0:26:20] But I had, like, kind of huge, like, I don't know how I was doing, but, like, huge energy with, like... sense that I can do it. I mean, I know it sounds like impossible, but at the time I thought I can't.
[0:26:38] No, no, hang on, sorry. So, your parents wanted to change each other, sure.
[0:26:44] Yes.
[0:26:45] But you saw them fail day after day, week after week, year after year, decade after decade. So, they wanted to change each other, right?
[0:26:56] Yeah, for sure we wanted.
[0:26:57] But they failed.
[0:26:58] Yes.
[0:26:59] And you wanted to change your boyfriend, but not because you really believed you could change him. Because if your parents had tried to change each other and succeeded, then you would believe, oh, okay, that can happen. But your parents never were able to change each other. I mean, I'm sure they fight less now just because they're older, right?
[0:27:23] Yeah, obviously.
[0:27:24] Yeah, yeah. So you just get worn out, right? You just get tired. So you just give up to some degree, but it's not because, I mean, you've just run out of energy. It's like why criminals become less violent. They just get older, right? They just get tired. It's not a moral thing. It's just a worn out thing. So do you know why your parents got married? Why did they get together?
[0:27:50] I think it was different times and at that time it was like if you're dating somebody, you marry this person. It wasn't like now you can choose or people are really respectful for your choice. Before it was like some kind of pressure. And at that kind of age, couples, they are still together, most of them, as I know my parents' friends too. but they have also kind of stories where they look like good on paper, but inside home happened things like also fighting or, I mean, behind closed doors. And in my case, I really wanted like something opposite, but it happened even worse.
[0:28:35] Okay. Have you seen pictures of your mother when she was young?
[0:28:40] Yeah, she was beautiful. I mean, one of the first things my dad noticed was she was beautiful.
[0:28:45] Okay. So, as a beautiful young woman, she could get most guys, almost every guy would date her, right?
[0:28:54] Yep.
[0:28:55] So, if you say they got married because they kept dating, that doesn't answer the question. Sorry to be a nag, but... The question is, of all the men, she could have dated probably a hundred men in her environment. I mean, she could have dated most people in the world, I'm sure. If she's a beautiful woman, she can date just about any man. So of all the hundred men she could have dated, she chose to date your father. I'm sure lots of men were asking her out. I remember when I was in junior high school, there was this girl who was very pretty in the class, and we had a Valentine's Day card-giving thing, and she got more cards than there were children and boys in the grade.
[0:29:54] That's a lot.
[0:29:55] No, like, you could barely see her. It was piled up. And what that means is that boys from other schools had found a way to send her a Valentine's Day card.
[0:30:08] And it was horrible in a way. It's certainly tough for all the other girls. But this girl, who was beautiful, got so much male attention, it was deranged. I mean, it was mad. And so I assume that your mother was one of these types of girls or young women. So she could have got any guy. And even this girl that I knew many decades ago ended up dating a guy who was not very high quality, whatever, right? And I just remember that, like, she had so many Valentine's Day cards. And I'm sure that the boys who put the Valentine's Day cards in tried to put something clever or witty or interesting or engaging in it or chose the card with great care. And so she could have had her pick of just about any boy would have been thrilled to go out with her.
[0:31:09] And she chose, I mean, an okay guy, but nothing, nothing real special. I don't think he ever ended up amounting to much. So that's the big question is not, well, my parents dated, but why did your mother date a man she didn't like? That's always a big question and a big mystery. And again, And if she's some, I don't know, some Laura Wingfield, really shy girl with a limp and a squinty eye. And I don't know, something like that.
[0:31:42] No, she wasn't shy, she was like in your face.
[0:31:45] Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, so she had the choice. And a woman's beauty to me... It's like, have you ever bought a lottery ticket?
[0:31:56] Some big one, five minutes. I don't really like anything, so I just like try and get in one.
[0:32:03] Yeah, so to me, a woman's beauty when she's young is like being able to choose a lottery ticket knowing which one will win, or at least having a pretty good indication of which one will win. Or at least you know which ones are not going to win. and so it's like it's like having a thousand lottery tickets and they glow like the ones that are most likely to win glow the brightest and the ones that are least likely to win are dark and you have a thousand lottery tickets in front of you and you choose the darkest one you choose the one that is not going to win a woman's beauty is there so she can choose the most productive and best father for her children, and all of that. So your mother could choose anyone in the environment, a hundred, if she's beautiful, a thousand young men. So then the question is, with all of that choice, why did she choose so badly?
[0:33:16] I was analyzing it, and my opinion could be that she somehow also tried to change her past, because also her dad, at one time, even had a drinking problem, so I think she somehow tried to change also, it's like generational trauma, and then I found out this information was not a long time ago, and it blew my mind. and I kept reading over and over, it was like, finally makes some sense why we do what we do. Because before it looked like, I don't want to say destiny, but some kind of weird stuff that you want one thing and happen completely another or terrible even.
[0:33:55] Okay. Well, if I understand what you mean, you're saying that your mother chose badly because her mother chose badly.
[0:34:07] Could be, but her mom died young, so she basically, my mom took care of her brother and her dad later even, so she became like kind of really intense, like controlling also person-like environment and everything, and I feel in her a lot of anxiety too, different kind of anxiety,
[0:34:26] so I think it was really how she survived that time and became like pattern for the rest of life.
[0:34:34] Okay. Okay, so if your mother chose badly because her mother chose badly, is that what your mother says or is that what you think?
[0:34:44] I think it's more than I think. We don't all consider it like she chose good. But as I see, it doesn't feel that way. It doesn't look that way. Because if we're good, we will be in peace, could be happy.
[0:35:01] Right. Okay. So, I don't believe that your mother chose badly because of her childhood. Because if, I mean, we speak the language that we grow up with, right? So, if I grew up in Japan, I'd speak Japanese. I grew up in England, so I speak English. And that's kind of a fixed thing. And so, if you grew up in Japan and your parents speak Japanese, you're going to speak Japanese. I mean, that's causal, and I get that. But I don't believe that we choose badly because our parents chose badly, because there are a lot of people in life who say, well, my father drank alcohol, so I don't touch it. I don't touch alcohol. My father was an alcoholic. I mean, Dr. Phil on TV in America, he's one of them, right? So there are a lot of people who say, that I don't do the bad things because my parents did the bad things. And then there are some people who say, well, I'm an alcoholic because my father was an alcoholic and so on, right? So there's a choice. There is a choice. You can't choose the language that you grow up with. That's your parents' choice and where they choose to live and what they choose to speak to you and what they choose to teach you. So you can't choose...
[0:36:27] The language that you speak growing up. But you can choose the language that you learn when you're an adult. And if you have the example of a mother who chose badly, the question is, and it's a big mystery, and I'm not immune from this. I didn't have the best relationship in my 20s, so I'm not nagging anyone. But it is a really interesting question that if we grow up with bad examples we could as easily say i'm not choosing the bad things as say well that's why i choose the bad things.
[0:37:03] Yeah it's kind of um i mean you create your own life and um i was reading like sartre like sartre like so he said like, you feel like it's like you wait this but in real way you create that reality so I created that reality but I didn't realize at the time that I'm creating, this reality at the moment I feel like a movie it's happening not like I'm a willing person who do it it's like more, autopilot probably sure Sure.
[0:37:44] Well, I think that the difference is moral values. Because if you had grown up with good, or if you had discovered or figured out good moral values, then you would say, my parents, I mean, would you say, in the light of peaceful parenting, would you say that your parents were bad parents?
[0:38:05] Well, I love them, so I can't say that.
[0:38:08] But… Ah, there we go. Yeah, there we go. Okay, so that's… Sorry, I wasn't sure that was your perspective, but that's why you chose badly.
[0:38:16] Yeah, I kind of… Let me explain. I'm kind of believing in God. Before even I was going to church, but I stopped because after all this experience, I noticed that even churches are kind of manipulative. Even this priest is a saint.
[0:38:37] Okay, so do you still love your parents?
[0:38:42] Yes, I still love them.
[0:38:43] Okay, and what do you love about them?
[0:38:46] I don't know. It's funny. I love them because they are my parents. Of course, there were good moments, not all the time, only fighting.
[0:38:58] Well, if you can continue to love your parents, though they did you great harm and your sister by fighting and your father not being home, and also they did not stand firm in warning you against the controlling and eventually violent tattoo guy, if you could continue, if you can continue to love your parents, then you should get back together with the father of your child, because you can continue to love him as well.
[0:39:29] No, I'm not.
[0:39:31] No, no, no, no, no. You don't get to have that choice.
[0:39:35] Yeah.
[0:39:36] Because if you can continue to love bad parents, and they're still in your life, of course, right? You see them from time to time.
[0:39:46] Yes.
[0:39:47] Okay. So if you can make yourself love people because of obligation, then you should get back together with the father of your child,
[0:39:57] because having a two-parent household is best for the children. I mean, you know that, right? And so, hang on, sorry, I'll shut up in a sec. So, if you can love your parents, then why can't you love the father of your child? because you didn't choose your parents you chose the father of your child. So why would you love people you never chose because of an obligation that is family but not love the man that you did choose for the same obligation to family?
[0:40:38] I mean it's like really it was like destroying my soul, this relationship so, chance love person who destroy my soul my i mean even naiveness because i had kind of, another kind of view to the world than now i feel like everywhere could be betrayed and stuff like that okay so hang on so if you look if.
[0:41:05] You look over your whole life and please understand i'm not saying get back together with the father of your child i don't know i'm just pointing out this, inconsistency, this difference.
[0:41:17] Yes.
[0:41:18] If you look at your life as a whole, who did more harm to you, your parents or your boyfriend?
[0:41:28] I could say both.
[0:41:30] Well, okay, let's put it this way. Who did more harm to you for longer, your parents or your boyfriend?
[0:41:40] It's very hard to say parents, but basically we were modeling how everything should be, and I now struggle a lot.
[0:41:49] Okay, so your parents were still fighting into your 20s, right?
[0:41:56] Yes.
[0:41:56] Okay, so your parents modeled a hostile, aggressive, and I would imagine, if it's not true, obviously tell me, did they call each other names?
[0:42:10] Not names exactly, but we're like insulting phrases and disrespectful, like shouting, talking like a disrespectful way. So for me, that's why it's a blind spot when somebody talks, and I even don't realize that we are disrespectful until I see another people. I just like after that work meeting event, another container starts crying, and then I realize like, oh, this one's disrespectful. So I mean, that's fine. It becomes so normal.
[0:42:40] Okay. I need you to get to a quieter place. It's tough to do a show with all of this background noise. Yes. So, if somebody on a bus started shouting at you and using these horrible or disrespectful phrases, would you consider that abusive?
[0:42:58] Yes.
[0:42:59] Okay. All right. So, your parents were abusive to each other, which means that they were abusive to their children.
[0:43:07] Yes, it was.
[0:43:08] So your parents were abusive to you for a quarter century, for 25 plus years. Do they still fight?
[0:43:19] Like you said, we fight, but less because we're older.
[0:43:23] Okay. So they're still fighting, and you're 37 years old.
[0:43:28] Yes.
[0:43:28] Okay. So, your parents have been destructive to your mind and sense of love and well-being for 37 years. You were with your boyfriend for five years, lived with him for four, right?
[0:43:48] Yes.
[0:43:49] Okay, it's just getting louder and louder. I'm really trying to have a good conversation here.
[0:43:55] I didn't plan to be outside, but the time made a difference between your place and mine changed.
[0:44:02] Okay. All right. So your parents have been harmful to you for 37 years. Your boyfriend was harmful to you for how long?
[0:44:14] Well, five years later I left him.
[0:44:16] Well, oh yes, because you said he was controlling in the first couple of weeks, right?
[0:44:22] Yeah.
[0:44:23] Now, if your mother had sat you down and said, Listen, my dear, my child, I see the signs. He is controlling, which means he will bully you. And he comes from an unstable family. And I have made my mistakes. I don't want you to repeat them. So you need to find a man from a good family who's genuinely kind. A tattoo artist is not a good father for your future children. And how old were you when you got together with the father of your child?
[0:45:03] I was 24.
[0:45:05] 24. Okay. Got it. so I mean old enough that you weren't like 19 or 18 or something like that so you're old enough to make better decisions and if your father had sat down and said listen your mother and I fight a lot and you don't want a relationship where you fight a lot and this guy is going to try to control you which means you either have to give in and lose yourself or you
[0:45:31] have to fight him which is very hard. And so if your parents had helped you out and told you the truth about your boyfriend with their additional years of wisdom, then it's likely that you would be happily married today and not a single mother.
[0:45:52] Yes, it touched my heart because I will be deeply touched if they say that, But we see only the first part that is like my choice, but not like that, like my mother, but it's like my choice. So at that moment, I thought like I did right choice, but honestly, no.
[0:46:10] So your parents want to respect your choice, right?
[0:46:15] Yeah.
[0:46:16] Did you want your parents to be fighting every day when you were a child?
[0:46:20] No.
[0:46:21] Okay. So they didn't care about your choice or your sister's choice when you were growing up. They didn't care at all about your choice because you didn't want them to be fighting all the time, but they fought all the time. So they don't care about your choice. Let's be clear about that.
[0:46:40] Yes, at that moment, they didn't think about it. We like to see things happen outside of their will.
[0:46:52] Well, I'm not sure what nonsense they came up with to talk about it, but they certainly don't care about your choices and preference, because if they did, I mean, every parent has to look in the mirror and say, is what I'm doing good or bad for my child in the long run? and your parents indulged in petty fighting at the expense of you and your sister's happiness when you had no control over the situation, no choice to leave, and never chose to be there at all. So this is what I'm trying to understand, and please help me understand it, is that your Your parents did far more harm to you than the father of your child, but you love your parents and you left the father of your child. So help me understand.
[0:47:46] Okay, when you were growing up, were you spanked?
[0:47:50] You mean hit?
[0:47:51] Yes.
[0:47:52] Yes.
[0:47:53] Okay. And how often were you hit?
[0:47:56] It was more in my early childhood, so I don't remember. Basically, I don't remember a lot, so I remember like time to time, but I don't remember.
[0:48:08] Okay. And do you know when you stopped being hit?
[0:48:14] Maybe when I was eight, but it was short and continuous, like physical, yeah, stuff, but.
[0:48:21] Okay. Now, if you hired a babysitter for your son, and you came home and saw your babysitter hitting your son or your daughter. Do you have a son or daughter?
[0:48:34] A son.
[0:48:34] A son. Okay, so you come home, and the babysitter is hitting your son. What would you feel?
[0:48:41] Oh, of course. I would be scared and take off my child. When he was born, I made myself promise to be all the time with him as much as possible, and I did. I mean, I all the time was with him. He was like, I'm like a kangaroo. I carry him in my pocket. So I try to be all the time alert and be everywhere with him.
[0:49:00] Okay. How would you feel if you came home and saw the babysitter hitting your little boy. I'm not sure if you're hearing what I'm saying, because I know you're in a loud environment. Am I asking you, what would you do? No. I'm asking you, what would you feel?
[0:49:26] It's scary.
[0:49:28] Okay, and would you feel angry?
[0:49:29] Yes.
[0:49:30] Okay. Would you ever hire that babysitter again?
[0:49:34] Never ever.
[0:49:35] Okay. Your parents hit you and your sister for years and years and years when you were very little. They yelled and insulted each other your whole life. I ask you again, what do you love about your parents? Love is how we feel when we are around virtuous, good, honest, kind, thoughtful, moral people. That's love. You wouldn't love a babysitter who hit your child once.
[0:50:08] Yes.
[0:50:09] But you love your parents who hit you hundreds of times, probably. So help me understand.
[0:50:17] Well, we take care of us. I mean, we have things like food, my dresses, so it wasn't like, I mean, like neglect physical way. I mean, but at the same time, it was huge anxiety. And I, like I said, I don't remember a lot of things.
[0:50:39] So you love your parents because they gave you food and shelter?
[0:50:44] Yeah, take care of us.
[0:50:45] Well they didn't take care of your soul because they hit you and fought and insulted each other all the time yeah now let me ask you this if a woman was thrown in prison at a young age, unjustly the police manufactured evidence against her for some reason and she was thrown in prison and it was immoral, it was wrong when she was little, or small or young let's say she was 18, 17 or 18 and she was in prison for 10 years, should she love the prison for giving her food and shelter.
[0:51:30] I mean, it's like Stockholm Syndrome.
[0:51:34] No, no, no. Love. Love. You said love. You said you love your parents. You didn't say I have Stockholm Syndrome with my parents. You said you love your parents. So if a woman is unjustly imprisoned for 10 years, should she get out and say, I love the prison because it gave me food and it gave me shelter?
[0:51:52] No, it is what it is. It's like you're in prison and it's terrible.
[0:51:57] Okay. Now, what if in the first couple of years of being in prison, she was also beaten? Should she love the jailer for giving her... Yeah, should she love the people in charge of the prison because they give her food and shelter even though they beat her?
[0:52:14] No, of course not.
[0:52:15] Okay. So, giving food and shelter is not enough for love. I mean, if someone kidnaps a woman, he gives her food and shelter, should she love him?
[0:52:30] No, of course not.
[0:52:31] Of course not. So, when you say, I love my parents because they gave me food and shelter, that is not enough for love. I mean, they had to do that because they were parents. They had to give you food and shelter because if they hadn't given you food and shelter, what would have happened to them?
[0:52:51] Why?
[0:52:52] Well, that they would have gone to jail. So, society forces them to give you food and shelter, so they gave you food and shelter. They didn't care that much about your happiness, or they would not have hit you, or certainly wouldn't have fought for 37 years or more. So, I ask again, you can't use food and shelter. What do you love and respect and treasure about your parents?
[0:53:21] Oh, great question. I just have this feeling I love, but I cannot distract.
[0:53:28] Well, if love can just happen, and it doesn't need any virtues, why do you... Okay, tell me why you don't love the father of your child.
[0:53:37] I don't love because it's like too well, and obviously I feel like destroyed after it, and it's like the fear of my soul, it's like light becomes darker than it was before.
[0:53:53] Okay, so hang on. Can you tell me, I mean, you said he got aggressive or violent near the end. When you say that he destroyed your soul, what do you mean? That's very poetic, and I'm not disagreeing with you, but I'm not sure what that means in practical terms.
[0:54:08] I don't know, after you kind of change how you want for me, it looks like people could be really scary and selfish and transactional and even church looks like it could be clear, but it could be crappy person, so it might exist like safety or, like you say, victory looks like could be like bikesides too of human nature.
[0:54:45] Okay. Sorry. Very, very abstract. And I'm sorry to be interrupting. Did he hit you?
[0:54:51] He hit me one time, but second, I didn't allow. I say, if you do it again, I will call police.
[0:54:58] Okay. So he hit you once. Did he hit your son?
[0:55:03] He didn't hit, he took up his hair and I did the same on him.
[0:55:08] I'm sorry, sorry, there's a lot of background noise again. You said he didn't hit your son, did he pull his hair? Sorry, I didn't quite catch that.
[0:55:17] Yeah, exactly, he pulled his hair and I did the same on him and said, did you like it? Why do you do it on kids? I mean, I did, like, buffer myself. I tried between my son and him. I defend my kid. I didn't allow it to happen on him, nothing bad. Like I said, I was all the time with my kid for more as possible for nothing happened.
[0:55:42] Okay, so, sorry. So, he hit you once, but never again. He didn't hit your son, but he pulled his hair. Did he do that just once? Or after you said, don't do it again, did he stop?
[0:55:55] No, he didn't stop. He tried more time, but I mean, I didn't allow him. I tried to keep him away as possible.
[0:56:03] Okay. So he hit you once. He pulled your child's hair a few times and helped me understand. And I'm not disagreeing with you. I just want to understand. I mean, your father did much worse, right?
[0:56:18] Yeah he basically left like whatever it was like away and later like can't do nothing.
[0:56:27] I didn't get any of that sorry.
[0:56:29] Sorry i don't know how to explain i mean my dad didn't hit me but he like left at home and didn't check on us.
[0:56:38] Oh so your father didn't hit you but your mother hit you?
[0:56:41] No, yes.
[0:56:42] Okay, but you got your boyfriend to stop pulling your son's hair, so why didn't your father get your mother to stop hitting you?
[0:56:53] I don't know. For me, it's like a mystery.
[0:56:56] Okay.
[0:56:56] I don't know why I didn't.
[0:56:58] So... He hit you once, he pulled your son's hair a few times. I don't understand how that destroyed your soul, because your parents did far worse to you and you love them.
[0:57:12] Well, I can't argue with the feelings, but maybe, I mean, my child's dad opened For me, the wound I like was makeup, everything is okay, we have Christmas, everything is right.
[0:57:31] Right, and you said with your parents that you love them because there are good times. So why don't you love the... I'm not saying that you should love your boyfriend. I don't know. I'm questioning why you have two completely different moral standards. One is that the father of your child cannot be aggressive to him in any way, but you were hit repeatedly up until the age of eight, and it's both of your parents who are responsible for that. It's not like your father didn't hit you, so he's fine, but your mother did hit you, and so that's a problem, because he married a woman and did not stop her from hitting you, and knew that she was violent, I'm sure, pretty early on. So I'm trying to understand why...
[0:58:22] Your son is worth so much protection, and you were not. Why, it's very bad for the father of your child to be aggressed against, but it's fine for your parents to aggress against you. Why, you throw out or toss out the father of your child for negative behaviors for a short period of time, and yet you love your parents who did far more negative behaviors for much longer. Your boyfriend was bad for, what, a year or two? Your parents were bad for eight years in terms of hitting and for 37 years in terms of fighting and calling names and being verbally abusive in front of the children, which is to be abusive towards the children. I mean, if a father beats up a mother in front of the children, he's abusing the children even more so than he's abusing his wife because his
[0:59:23] wife at least chose to be there, the children. And the wife can leave at any time and with a lot of support from society. But the children didn't choose to be there and can't leave. So beating up your wife in front of your children is worse on the children and more immoral against the children than even against your wife.
[0:59:42] And so when your parents were yelling at each other and calling each other these negative phrases, then this was terrible for their children, very abusive towards their children. So that's what I'm trying to understand. You love your parents, though they treated you very badly as a child. And yet, if the father of your child does a few negative things, harmful things, of course, I agree, he's gone. So why do your parents get your love, and the father of your child, who did much less wrong, gets your contempt? Again, if there's something I'm not seeing, I'm happy to be corrected.
[1:00:25] I don't know. I mean, then I didn't have a choice, let's see, but now I felt I want to protect this child and he's pure he's nice and i want to keep his like innocence i want to keep him like a child i want he'd be like um you know stranger things it's like upside down wall i feel my entire left like upside down wall and i no one would happen to my kids so as more i could i always was there and protection.
[1:00:55] Okay. So, if you allowed your boyfriend to beat your child or to hit your child for eight years when your child was very little, your son, would you be happy with yourself or unhappy with yourself?
[1:01:12] Unhappy.
[1:01:13] Okay. Would you love yourself or have contempt for yourself if you allowed your child to be hit for eight years?
[1:01:23] No, I never could... allow myself to do that.
[1:01:28] Okay. So, your mother did allow all of this and allowed for the verbal abuse to be in the household which harms the children for 20 years.
[1:01:41] Yeah, basically.
[1:01:43] Okay. So, can she love herself?
[1:01:46] Yeah, obviously she can.
[1:01:48] So, if a person has done evil, I'll just say it straight up. I'm not saying your mother is 100% evil. I don't even know what that means.
[1:01:58] But your mother did great evil and your father did great evil in how they raised you. And you know that because your boyfriend did far less harm and he's gone. And you have a lot of negative feelings towards him, right?
[1:02:15] Yes.
[1:02:16] Okay. So your parents did great evil in their lives and you love them. And your boyfriend did less evil, and you hate him or you feel negative towards him, right?
[1:02:32] Yeah. I see him as a producer, as it is. He tried me, but I didn't allow. So, I mean, I felt like strong energy from my kids and finally took off myself from that situation. Right.
[1:02:45] Okay. Okay, so why do you love people who did more evil and hate someone who did much less evil for much less time?
[1:02:55] Good question. I don't know. I mean, I now start to analyze people who did evil, like they have bad child, you can stuff like that, trying to stand them, make it even awkward, but basically...
[1:03:06] Okay, I need you to be closer to the microphone or less windy or something. Thank you. Sorry, you said that when you see people who do evil, you sympathize with their childhoods, and you try to understand and analyze them, and so on, right? And not to judge them too harshly?
[1:03:26] Yes. I try to understand why things they do, why they do.
[1:03:31] Okay, fantastic. So, did your boyfriend have a good and happy childhood?
[1:03:37] Oh, terrible. It was sometimes worse than mine.
[1:03:41] Okay, so the father of your son had a terrible childhood, so why wouldn't you try to have sympathy with him and analyze him in the way that you do with other people who had bad childhoods?
[1:03:57] I did. I mean, I analyzed. I thought if, I mean, I show love, I will try to make it different. I mean, maybe it will be different outcome.
[1:04:08] Well, but you've been doing this with your parents for decades, understanding them and analyzing them, and you love them.
[1:04:18] Yeah, I mean, I kind of try to do the reason why they behave like that.
[1:04:23] Does your son want his father around?
[1:04:28] No, he doesn't. He can't hear you.
[1:04:30] Okay, and I can't hear you. I don't know how to have this conversation if I can't hear you. I don't know why the sound is getting better or worse. So why doesn't your son want his father in his life?
[1:04:44] No, he doesn't.
[1:04:46] Yeah, but why?
[1:04:47] He feels uncomfortable. I mean, he feels intense. I mean, he can have conversation, but not feel comfortable.
[1:04:55] Why is he uncomfortable with his father?
[1:04:58] Because he also likes controlling him, asking where you are, what are you doing, and he feels uncomfortable.
[1:05:04] Okay. And have you spoken negatively of your boyfriend to your son?
[1:05:13] I mean, I explained to him why he broke up, but I mean, child-friendly way, not like to scare him, but explain that not anything was okay, that's why. And I also always try and protect him, so maybe that's energy, you know, on myself, he can feel it, that's something that's awesome.
[1:05:34] Okay, so you said to your son that you broke up with his father because you needed to protect your son.
[1:05:41] I mean, I told him that he wasn't nice to us and behaved badly. I mean, not okay that people should be in this situation. So I explained that part, but I didn't want to make him too much scary or something, so explain the history.
[1:05:59] Okay. And how often? Does your son see his father, if at all?
[1:06:06] Not much, because he lives in another country, and basically only calls, and then his father wants. So, for example, he appears, and he's like, I won't talk right now, but I mean, I picked even this part. I mean, if you talk, then your kid is comfortable, not like when he wants, so only calls.
[1:06:26] And why is his father in a different country?
[1:06:31] He prepared that way. He moved there and have his life there. I feel also comfortable that he's in another country. I don't know if he lives there, so I'm okay.
[1:06:43] Okay. So how often was your boyfriend seeing his son before he moved away?
[1:06:52] Not much too. It's like once in a year.
[1:06:55] Oh, once a year?
[1:06:56] Yes.
[1:06:57] Okay. And when you broke up, did he stop seeing his son right away?
[1:07:05] He tried to call often, also ask, but it's not a curious way, like what are you doing, but more like controlling way. What are you doing? Where are you? And it was like not genuine care. so time by time i like um if you are nice you can talk if you're not nice better call another time so start call us but i'm not against that don't talk but i mean if you're nice you talk nice you can talk but if you like make pressure and i mean like now when i say see i i'm able to make boundary, I feel like I can but now I say can.
[1:07:48] So if your son asks you, mommy why did you choose a bad man to be my father what would you say?
[1:07:58] Like, usually people would say, like, I did a bad job.
[1:08:01] Yes, but why?
[1:08:03] I don't know. That moment, I thought, is, like, A good choice, but not much.
[1:08:13] Okay, so you were together with this man for five years, living with him for four, and so what you're saying to your son is, how long were you with your boyfriend when you got pregnant?
[1:08:31] One year.
[1:08:32] Oh, you were with him for a year. So you got pregnant after you'd known him for a year.
[1:08:37] Yeah.
[1:08:37] Okay, and did you think, I mean, you must have moved in with him and been with him for the next four years because you thought the relationship could work out.
[1:08:46] Yes.
[1:08:46] Okay. So what you're saying to your son is that you can be in love with someone. They can seem like a good person. You can move in with them and have a child with them, and you can be with them for four years. So you can be with that person for half a decade before realizing that they're a bad person and you can't live with them. and what do you think that is going to do to your son's belief in love?
[1:09:15] I really wish that he could have not distorted view of love, but I probably think he could because I learned that people can be good, can be bad, but it's like you tolerate both.
[1:09:30] Well, and you kind of lied in this last little bit, and it's not a big condemnation, I'm just sort of pointing it out. Because you said that you would say to your son that you thought his father was a good person, but it turned out after five years, he wasn't, right? But you knew in the first couple of weeks that he was controlling. And you also knew that he was a tattoo artist, which is not a big plus in terms of moral character. I mean, tattoo artists hurt people and scar people for a living.
[1:10:06] Well, I mean... I don't know which choice is better, like, say, you accept people who we are, but if you accept, you can end up like that. So, no.
[1:10:21] It's tough. I mean, I'm looking at your parenting down the road. Because most women, if they have a child with a bad man, they have a defense. And they say, I didn't know he was a bad man for five years or three years or a year or something like that. But it's not true. it's not true and what it does to children is it makes them very afraid of falling in love, because if your son falls in love he's like oh i want to give my heart to this person she seems like a good person but according to what my mom says she could turn out to be a really bad person years down the road and there's no way to know ahead of time so he can't fall in love He can't.
[1:11:08] So, I think in so long times, so your advice will be, like, tell straight away. I'm, like, so like that for he have better, I mean, view of life.
[1:11:21] Well, and also your son is going to grow up and he's going to say, tell me about your childhood because you talk about childhoods and you talk about how people start in life and what effect it has on them. And he's going to find out, if you're honest, about how bad your parents were, right?
[1:11:40] Yeah.
[1:11:40] And then he's going to say, why do you love your parents and kicked out daddy? Because it doesn't seem like daddy was as bad as your parents.
[1:11:52] Yeah, no, I get it. Yeah, I really wish for him a better outcome than mine, but it looks like repeating another cannot swear.
[1:12:03] Well, it's tough, and I think one of the reasons that you claim to love your parents is you want unconditional love from your son. You give unconditional love to your parents because you want unconditional love from your son.
[1:12:18] Yeah, I want it.
[1:12:20] Is it fair to ask for unconditional love from your son when you did not give unconditional love to his father?
[1:12:31] No.
[1:12:32] It's not.
[1:12:33] Yeah.
[1:12:34] Is it healthy for your son to grow up with the idea of unconditional love when he's growing up in a single mother household because his mother did not practice unconditional love? but, in fact, has had a lot of contempt and hostility to his father. Because if unconditional love is good, then you should love the father of your son, who you chose. If unconditional love is bad, then you can't love your parents. This is the contradiction or the paradox that I'm trying to unravel here. So, tell me this. Is it good or bad to have unconditional love?
[1:13:15] No, it's bad. I mean, drink to a haunted hostel, I don't want to.
[1:13:20] Okay, so if it's bad to have unconditional love, and your parents did you the most harm of anyone, why do you love your parents? Or is it right or good to love your parents?
[1:13:31] It's like right to love them.
[1:13:33] I'm sorry?
[1:13:34] I mean, it's right to love.
[1:13:36] It's right to love your parents. Okay, so then unconditional love is good.
[1:13:40] No.
[1:13:41] So if unconditional love is good, why is the father gone?
[1:13:45] Because he was really bad and destructive.
[1:13:49] Yes. Were your parents bad and destructive when you were a child?
[1:13:53] Yes.
[1:13:54] Have they apologized for that and taken responsibility and gone to therapy or done whatever they need to do to be better?
[1:14:02] No.
[1:14:02] Okay. So why are your parents loved and the father of your child that you chose, why is he driven away?
[1:14:12] For bad behavior. I mean, for unproven behaviors.
[1:14:15] Okay. But your parents still have bad behavior because they still fight, although less than before, right? But only because they're tired, not because they became better people. Yes. The purpose of parenting is to teach your children how to love morally, because you want your child to have a happy life. You want your child to have a better life than you did, as I want my child to have a better life than I had when I was growing up. And so if you teach your son to love without any judgment, to just fall in love and not to have any judgment and to love no matter what the other person has done, will that be good for him?
[1:14:56] No, of course not. It's terrible.
[1:14:58] Okay. But you're modeling that with your parents.
[1:15:01] Yeah, I understand now. Basically, that's the answer I'm looking for.
[1:15:06] I think so. I think the boundaries need to be with your parents. My suggestion has always been to sit down with your parents and have an honest conversation, maybe get your sister involved so it's not just you. Have an honest conversation about some of the negative things they did when you were growing up, that they did not model love in a healthy way, and that they did not protect you, which is their job, from a pretty bad decision, I think, which was to get involved with a tattoo artist, right? so they did not protect you, they did not help you, and they modeled bad relationships, and they fought all the time, which was very stressful for you as a child, and they used horrible phrases with each other, which was very destructive to you as a child, and they have not admitted fault. And I'll tell you why they fought. I guess we can end on this. Do you want to know why your parents fought?
[1:16:02] What?
[1:16:03] Well, you are a Christian woman. Do I have that correct?
[1:16:07] Yes.
[1:16:08] Okay. Your parents get together. Your parents got together for the sin of lust. Right? I don't know much about your father, but you say your mother was beautiful. And so your father got together with your mother because of lust. Now, lust is short term. So you get together, you get married, you have children based upon mere physical attraction. And then you end up stuck together because you have kids and you're married.
[1:16:39] Yeah.
[1:16:40] And sorry, for how long have you been a Christian?
[1:16:43] All my life. Basically, I had in the studio a teacher who said a really interesting thing that when you don't have or have an absent father, your father knew it's like God. So probably that's the reason I believed in that all my life. I mean, since I was a child.
[1:16:59] Sorry, you've been a Christian your whole life Yes Why were you fornicating?
[1:17:05] What means?
[1:17:06] Oh, sorry, you had sex before marriage I mean.
[1:17:12] We was planning to marry first thing And second thing is kind of I mean, I did what another person want In that moment No.
[1:17:22] No, no, no, no, come on Christianity isn't do what other people want if they want you to sin. There's nothing in the Bible that says if a sinner wants you to sin, you should sin with him. Why did you have sex before marriage? Why did you move in without requiring marriage? Why did you sin if you're a Christian? And it wasn't just a one-time thing. This was repeatedly. Or are you not a Christian who takes things very seriously? Are your parents Christians?
[1:17:57] Not much. I mean, like, in theory, but I mean, I myself not like that strict Christian, like, super strict, but I mean, I believe in that.
[1:18:08] Hang on, hang on. What do you mean super strict? Does the Bible say, don't have sex before marriage?
[1:18:17] Yeah, no, I get it.
[1:18:19] No, I'm sorry. I'm not trying to be a finger-wagging guy. I'm not trying to nag you. Does the Bible say, don't live with a man, but rather get married?
[1:18:31] I mean, before we lived, I gave him the rules. I said, if I live with you, I want to marry, and we were engaged, but when I saw he was too much, I delayed his marriage until finally I just leave him. I was myself kind of declined. He was like, could marry me tomorrow, but I myself keep distance because I felt something is off, so, Yeah, I felt like dangerous, but at the same time, like something too much.
[1:19:03] Oh, so you're raising your son to be a Christian, is that right?
[1:19:09] No. I mean, after all this experience, I mean, I believe in God.
[1:19:14] Sorry, you're still a Christian?
[1:19:16] No, I'm not a Christian in that way. I mean, I don't go to church anymore. I feel kind of this institution, general, like fake. So I believe in God, but my own God.
[1:19:29] Okay. So, sorry, you said I've been a Christian my whole life, but you're not a Christian now?
[1:19:35] No. Then, yeah, if like do what the Bible says, no, no more.
[1:19:43] Okay. So, but you were a Christian in your 20s.
[1:19:47] Yeah, I was.
[1:19:48] Okay. So, I mean, it's kind of easy then, right? If your son says, why did you choose a bad man to be my father you said because i sinned, because i believed in these morals but i didn't follow them i did kind of the opposite of what i thought was the good and you know that's that's easier because then if you say well i had a bad relationship because i sinned then if he finds a woman who doesn't sin he can trust her right?
[1:20:17] Yeah.
[1:20:17] Okay. So, so that's, uh, that's easier and, and better. Okay. So, sorry, that was just a little, little side quest there. I just wanted to, to understand that. So, the reason why your parents fought is because they were sinners, because they got together on the basis of lust. Now, according to Christianity, should you marry for lust?
[1:20:42] No, of course.
[1:20:43] No, you should marry, what should you look for to marry?
[1:20:48] Like you always say, virtue, you look like...
[1:20:51] Virtue okay so your husband sorry your boyfriend was not virtuous right no obviously not okay, well you knew that in the first couple of weeks so your parents got together, for lust for sexual attraction and then they got stuck together you know the devil gives you what you want in the short run but takes everything from you in the long run so your the devil allowed your parents in a way to get together and to satisfy their lust and then they were stuck with each other and they didn't like each other because they weren't good people and so yeah so they get they get the heaven together of a couple of months of hot sex or whatever right and that's the drug and that's what the devil offers them. You can satisfy the lusts of your body for a couple of months, maybe six months, whatever, right?
[1:21:54] And then you're stuck together after six months for the next 60 years. You're chained together in your sin, in your lust, in your fornication. And so, your parents fought because they were sinners who were stuck together, because they got together out of lust rather than admiration of virtue. And therefore, when you get together for lust, you get a short amount of sex. And then, in the long run, you get a lot of fighting and not much sex at all. So you get six months or a couple of months of hot sex and you hold your nose because you're only having sex with the person's body. You're treating them as an object, as a thing to satisfy your lust. And then when you wake up, as people always do, you wake up from that sexual haze, that sexual coma, that sexual delirium, you wake up and you're chained to each other in hell. And that's a lot of people's relationships. And that's why they fought. And you got together with the tattoo guy for lust.
[1:23:09] And you had sex together because of lust, but you didn't like each other as people. So then what you do is you say, oh, man, I'm chained together with this person I don't like because of lust. So what I'm going to do is I'm going to fix them. So I'm going to turn them into someone I could love when I chose them out of lust.
[1:23:34] And your parents have been trying that for 50 or 60 years. You tried that for half a decade and it doesn't work. Because what you should say is, do I respect this person morally? And everyone knows that. I'm not, you know, the funny thing is, is that a lot of what I say, everybody knows already. I don't claim particular originality in the realm of moral philosophy to say that you should get together with someone because they're a good person, right? Because you choose your partner based upon how good a parent they're going to be to your future children, because that's what love and partnership and pair bonding is all about is raising children.
[1:24:16] So when I say you should marry a person based on virtue, not based on physical attraction, everybody knows that this goes way back even before the Bible. This is, you know, choose a person for qualities of character. I mean, even in the Bible says it's better to live on a corner of the roof in the rain than in a house with a contentious woman, with a nagging wife. And so we should choose people based upon the qualities of their character and their virtue and their goodness and their kindness and their thoughtfulness and their moral strength. That's why we should choose people. And everyone says, yeah, yeah, yeah, but she's hot. She's pretty. He's tall. He's whatever, right? He makes my nether regions tickle, right? He gets me sexually excited. He gets me hot and bothered. And then we get together like animals, and then we wonder why we don't have sustainable love. So your parents fell prey to the sin of lust. And it sounds like, given that this man was a bad man at the beginning, like he was controlling within the first couple of weeks, but you stayed with him for five years, then you stayed with him for reasons of lust. And you don't want your son to do the same thing. And so...
[1:25:34] Your parents, I mean, what are your parents going to say to you? You should choose your husband or your wife based upon the quality of character when they don't have any quality of character. In fact, they sound like pretty horrible people that if they were sitting next to me at a restaurant, this is one of my big tests. If I was sitting next to your parents when they were fighting at a restaurant, I would get my food to go or I would ask to move tables because I hate being around, that kind of bitter, negative, horrible squabbling. So your parents fought because they don't like each other, and they only got together because of lust, because lust is easier than virtue. Wanting to have sex with someone is a whole lot easier than being a good person. Just like taking cocaine is easier than being a good person, because cocaine makes you happy. Being a good person makes you happy, but it's a tough thing to do.
[1:26:26] And so, your parents are together because of lust, and they are now in the prison. They're stuck with each other because they chose because of lust. Now, you broke out of the prison, but I still don't know if you know why you got into the prison. You got into the prison because you chose someone based upon a standard other than virtue. Now, you are a young woman, 37, youngish, and so going forward in your life, you said you want boundaries. Well, the only boundary that matters is virtue. The only standard that matters is virtue. And you need to be virtuous, and you need to have virtuous people in your life. And you certainly need to have virtuous people in your son's life, if that makes any sense.
[1:27:11] Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. I wanted to ask you how get out of hell, I mean, it looks like I understand that ultimately.
[1:27:20] Well, the only way to get out of hell is to be brutally honest with yourself. And I say this, it was difficult for me as well, so I say this with great sympathy. you have to stop being a victim. If you are a victim, you can't have any boundaries because you have self-pity and you feel hard done by and you feel wronged. You chose this man and you were in your mid-twenties when you chose him, so you weren't a kid. You had the example of your parents' bad marriage and you just have to be ruthlessly honest with yourself and say, why did I choose this person? and the answer, almost always, is lust. And that is a sin because you're unhappy and your child is growing up without a father. Now, that's not some endless disaster or anything like that because it's never too late to choose virtue.
[1:28:15] I want this. My mom repeats it over the moment.
[1:28:18] Okay. Then you also have to have an honest conversation, in my view, with your parents and say, look, guys, you did some bad things when I was growing up and it had a negative effect on me. and have a conversation with them about the bad things that happened. Because, of course, if you don't know or understand about the bad things that your parents did when you were growing up, you're more likely to repeat them. Now, it may be difficult, of course, because as a single mother, I assume that your parents are quite important in raising your son.
[1:28:53] Yes.
[1:28:53] Right.
[1:28:54] I tried to talk with my mom, and she just said, how dare you? But I mean, I really like one day if they ask why I do things I do, explain.
[1:29:08] Okay, well, if you're dependent upon your parents to raise your son at the moment, then maybe it's not wise to have an honest conversation with them as long as you're sure that they're not harming your son. Because if they were bad parents themselves and they haven't apologized or made anything better, then it seems quite likely that they also might do negative things towards your son. Not consciously, maybe not in the same way, but that would be my concern. And I don't know, of course, how to solve that. But I think you just have to be honest. If you can't have an honest conversation with your parents, and if your parents won't take any responsibility for their negative actions, then, I mean, maybe you still need them because you need someone to look after your son. But I wouldn't go around saying, oh, but I love them. They're such wonderful moral people and so on, right? That would be my suggestion.
[1:30:07] Okay, thank you. I really have deep insight. And of course, I just don't repeat it. And I really want my son to have better challenges.
[1:30:19] Good stuff. All right. Well, listen, I appreciate the conversation. And I just wanted to express my deep sympathies for what happened as a child to you. And I certainly wish you the very best. And please feel free to let me know how things are going.
[1:30:32] Okay, thank you very much for listening.
[1:30:35] Bye-bye.
[1:30:35] Thank you. Bye.
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