0:00 - The Fog of Communication
3:28 - Hierarchy and Evasion
7:26 - The Dynamics of Submission
10:42 - Truth and Power Relations
In this lecture, Stefan Molyneux explores the concept of "fog" in communication, particularly emphasizing how unclear and evasive responses arise in interpersonal exchanges. Molyneux begins by addressing a common phenomenon he encounters during call-in shows, where individuals provide vague answers to straightforward questions. This lack of clarity, he argues, stems from a deeper psychological issue where precise answers are often avoided due to fear of punishment or judgment, thereby underscoring lower status or insecurity.
Molyneux elaborates on the idea that precise answers are indicators of confidence and accountability, anchoring his argument with examples from various fields such as engineering and business. He contrasts this with the vague or "foggy" responses that are indicative of a lack of clarity, often driven by a desire to avoid conflict or punishment. When people provide imprecise answers, they are, in effect, attempting to navigate a landscape where they feel either threatened by the truth or misrepresentation, illustrating a complex dynamic where truth-telling and lying both have their risks.
The lecture elucidates a critical tension present in many relationships: individuals are often punished equally for being honest and for being dishonest. This paradox compels people to resort to obfuscation, a tactic that allows them to defer accountability and avoid confrontation. In professional settings, Molyneux highlights how this situation is exacerbated by the pressures of investor expectations and the competitive nature of business, where fabricated optimism can be more immediately rewarding than honest assessments, despite potential consequences down the line.
Molyneux also discusses the societal implications of this communication dynamic, particularly in the context of hierarchical relationships and power struggles. He observes that when someone in a superior position asks for information, it is frequently a means of asserting dominance rather than a genuine inquiry. This hierarchy manifests in situations where individuals feel compelled to provide ambiguous responses as a means of preserving their own status and avoiding subjugation. By providing "foggy" answers, they signal compliance to the authority over them, ultimately reflecting a broader commentary on the nature of communication and control in human interaction.
Throughout the lecture, Molyneux stresses the importance of recognizing these dynamics in everyday life, suggesting that awareness of these patterns can lead to healthier forms of engagement. He advocates for transparency and directness, particularly as one transitions into adulthood and seeks to escape toxic relational patterns that demand submission and evasion. Illustrated through personal anecdotes and hypothetical scenarios, the lecture provides a thorough examination of the implications of fog in communication, urging listeners to foster clarity in their interactions and to confront the underlying power dynamics at play.
In closing, Molyneux invites his audience to reflect on their own communication styles and the societal structures that encourage evasiveness. By doing so, individuals may begin to break free from patterns of dominance and submission in their relationships, ultimately promoting more truthful and assertive exchanges.
[0:00] All right, everybody. Hope you're doing well. Stefan Molyneux from the Free Domain. So there was a question at freedomain.locals.com, which was, what is the story with fog? Of course, when I do call in shows, a lot of times I get a fog, which is imprecise answers, evasive answers. Did you get hit a lot? Not much. Well, how much? I don't really know. It wasn't too bad. You know, All of this stuff where any clarity and precision in the answer is studiously avoided, right? So the question is sort of why does this happen? Why do people do that?
[0:42] So precise answers are a mark of confidence and a mark of security. Precise answers are a mark of confidence and of security. So if you say to an engineer, you know, what is the what tensile strength if you calculated for sort of X, Y and Z, then he will say, you know, you know, it's fairly, it's fairly good. It's, you know, it's kind of accurate. It seems reasonable and sensible. It's, you know, in the right area. It's like, no, you get precise answers. When I had to submit my code to speed testing, well, the speed testing had to have precise answers. And you did the testing a whole bunch of times to see if you could figure out, which way, like how accurate the results were. So you needed really sort of precise answers. So precise answers are a mark of confidence and accountability.
[1:38] Whereas fog or evasion is a mark of low status and being punished both for lying and for telling the truth. So it's really, really important. This is a big, big issue in life. You are punished both for lying and for telling the truth. Now, if you're punished for lying and telling the truth, then all you can do is obfuscate. It is a mark of low status. It is a mark of victimhood. And it is a mark of a a personality-based, abusive, non-objective methodology for the truth. So, for instance, in the business world, a lot of times with regards to sales projections and so on, you are punished for lying and you are punished for telling the truth. So what I mean by that is that if you tell the truth based upon your most reasonable expectations, You are punished because inexperienced investors will give money to the other person instead, the person who fabricates and doesn't tell the truth about what's going on, right?
[2:48] So if you tell the truth, you're punished. If you lie, you are punished, but later. So if you say, oh, we're going to do $5 million in business next year, then if you really only think you're going to do $2.5 million, then you are lying. But you are rewarded in the moment, but punished later when you come in under.
[3:11] So fog or obfuscation is a way of trying to defer the punishment to later. Now, if the person is trying to get information out of you in a non-hierarchical fashion, right, they're not sort of ordering you to give information and they'll determine whether it's good or bad and reward or punish you on their whim.
[3:29] If someone is trying to get information out of you in a non-hierarchical fashion, then your fog will be something that is kind of annoying, like just give me the facts, give me the facts. However, if someone is asking you a question in order to dominate you, then the fog may well satisfy them. A foggy answer may well satisfy them because their purpose is to establish hierarchy and dominance. And if you provide a fogged out, imprecise answer to someone, you are submitting to them, right? So you are admitting to them that they have higher status, you have lower status, and you won't give them precise answers because they have the capacity to punish you, both for lying and telling the truth, right? I mean, you know, there's a silly example that's quoted about women, right, where some woman, some wife says to her husband, does this dress make me look fat? or do you think I've gained weight, right? Now, he's punished if he lies or if he tells the truth.
[4:38] So if he tells the truth, yes, I think you have gained some weight, then he's punished. If he lies, no, you look fantastic, then at some point she will realize she has gained weight or other people will mention it and like, well, why didn't you say anything?
[4:52] So he's punished if he lies. He's punished if he tells the truth. But what she's doing by asking this kind of question is she is not asking for the truth or for a lie she wants him to show his submission to her, by not being clear and answering the question being clear and answering the question is do you think i've gained weight or this does this dress make me look fat be like well don't ask me go ask the bathroom scale i mean figure out if you've gained weight it's not it's not an eyeball ball thing. It's a weight scale thing. But what do you think? It's like, well, I don't know. I mean, it could be muscle. Maybe you've been working out more. It could be any number of things. It looks a little bit like you've gained weight. The pants do look tighter, but you know, I don't know for sure. But go ask the scale, right? There's no point asking me.
[5:43] So a lot of times when people are demanding information from you, they want to see you squirm. They want to see you have to lie or be awkward. And professors do this all the time. Professors do this all the time. Because they ask you your answer for a particular question, and if you lie and parrot back what they want to hear, what the professor wants to hear, then he or she is satisfied because they got you to lie, to misrepresent, to falsify. Like the odds that you have exactly the same opinions as your professor are virtually zero, but it is a dominance, a display to get you to stumble and stutter and lie and falsify. To see your true authentic self collide with the sort of devious self that wants to gain in resources through falsehood is a pleasure that a sadist will get in terms of corruption, like they are corrupting you. And the amount of pleasure that people take in corrupting others is really quite something to see. You know, hey man, have another drink. Hey man, smoke them if you got them. Hey man, you should try this weed. Hey man, all of this sort of stuff, right? Right.
[7:00] And that pleasure is really something. So to think of Oprah Winfrey with that young blonde actress with sort of a lecherous, lurky owlbear of Harvey Weinstein looming over them in the green room from hell. So they enjoy, sadists will enjoy asking you the questions in a demanding manner and then watching you squirm and oh and oh, because that is a mark of submission. mission.
[7:26] It is a way of getting you to bow down before them under the pretext of trying to get information.
[7:36] I mean, I remember one of the first, I think it was the first computer program that I wrote at a trading company was to analyze the disk usage on a tandem system to figure out if they needed to upgrade. And I wrote the program and I brought the install over and I ran it on my boss's computer and it didn't work and that was because he had his date formatting set to something in n-dimensional serbia or something like that like it's normally in canada it's day month year and it's four dates for the year but he was like year day month two for the year and and so i just hadn't anticipated that and you know that's fine and one of the programmers said oh yeah sorry i forgot to mention he has all these kinds of weird settings on his computer to check and see if you're thorough in your coding. And I'm like.
[8:28] It's just running locally here. I mean, obviously, if I was sending it overseas or to some other place, I would check all these weird date formats and he's like, no, it doesn't matter, right?
[8:37] So that was interesting, right? And of course, it was a very easy fix. I went back in five minutes and it ran fine. I thought maybe he'd changed his dates formatting again, but that wasn't the case, right? So most times when people are demanding information from you, they are exercising hierarchy over you. And so one of the things that I have, which is a challenge, and I sympathize with it and I understand it, in the call-in shows is what I'm doing is I'm saying to people, give me information, and they think it's a trap, so they fog. In other words, they treat me as an abuser because that's been their habit. And, of course, this happens in church, this happens in other religious institutions, this happens in school, this happens at home, and so on. Why did you do that? There's no good answer. Why would you think that? There's no good answer because the aggression is there to establish dominance. And the asking for information is simply a pretext for the sadist to enjoy the corruption that sinks into your soul by his perception from you neither affirming nor denying the facts on the ground. Right? So it is a mark of power and of strength. It is a mark of subjugation towards you. And as a kid, of course, what can you do? You're trapped in these stupid relationship. When you get to be an adult, though, you tell the truth. And if people don't like it, well, they could screw off.
[10:07] These are the facts, right? How long is it going to take for this project to be done? Three weeks. That's unacceptable.
[10:13] Well, then you're going to have to talk to Father Time or the person who sold the specifications. I didn't sign off on the specifications. You're asking me how long does it take to do this? I'm telling you it's three weeks. Well, it's got to be faster. It's like, well, then you need to provide me more resources or bonuses for people who completed faster because if I'm going to ask people to put in time and a half, I'm not just going to do that every single time, right? So, that is just a dominance thing, right? They just want you to do what they want you to do.
[10:42] And what they want you to do is surrender to their power by being paralyzed and either lying to them, which is a surrender to power, or telling the truth, in which case they'll punish you, which means you're also subject to their power. So yeah, whenever you have the urge to fog, it is because you're in a no-win situation where the question is there in order to attempt to elicit a subjugation or slave response from you to the person. So as an adult, of course, try and avoid those relationships as much as possible. Like I worked at this programming job for about a year and then quit to start my own business because that kind of relationship is pretty bad. I hope this helps. Freedomain.com slash donate to help out the show. Hugely appreciate it. Lots of love from up here, my friends. Take care. I will talk to you soon. Bye-bye.
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